Hello, project coordinator here. Thanks Nicholas and the entire ShortCircuit team for putting together a nice video covering the Brand New Model F Keyboard! It is great to get the word out about these great keyboards that definitely take some getting used to! Kindly see my replies to some of the notes brought up in the video: The pinginess / reverberation: Some folks that prefer a Model F board without the higher pitch sounds. The best thing about buckling spring keyboards is the a longstanding community that has come up with various repair and maintenance step by step guides and mods, including the Floss Mod and the grease mod, to reduce or eliminate the high-pitch / pinginess while typing. My guess is that the main reason for the pinginess is the super thick steel plates reverberating inside the keyboard. Why True Red? Well it's the Pantone designation for the particular shade of red. The factory prefers Pantone references when doing the finishing. Recessed keys: The reason for the extra recessed keys for a couple of the rows is that the Ultra Compact F104 case top in the video is flat and the Model F and Model M design require a curved plate inside the keyboard. One result of this is that the key profiles are all uniform and a key can be installed on the various rows. The Model M style F104, FSSK, and F122 cases are all curved where the keys are, just like the IBM originals, so the keys will stick out more evenly. Casting: The Ultra Compact cases for the F104 and FSSK were CNC milled and have 3 main parts, while the ultra compact cases for the F62 and F77 keyboards are die cast, while the first rounds of the compact F62/F77 boards were CNC milled. The Model M style case Model F keyboards all have die cast cases. Regarding the low serials, they are mainly there to allow folks to offer a little extra support to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars in project cost overruns, the near-endless express air mail sample charges over the years, etc. Many folks also like a custom serial because it allows them to pick a date for the production date, like their birthday or an anniversary of some date. In the Model M community forums it is always notable to get a board made the same year you were born, or if you were lucky, on your actual birthday (and actual birth year too!).
@@McLovinMods The keyboard is a Model F keyboard, which uses the same capacitive buckling spring technology as the original IBM Model F keyboard. The similarity with the Model M is that the layout is same as the Model M keyboards that came out after the Model F. The Model M was actually IBM's effort to cut two-thirds of the cost out of their Model F which originally went for $600 in the early 80s, adjusted for inflation. The Model F produces a much crisper sound with each key press as it has a much larger flipper that snaps against a huge PCB underneath all of the keys.
@@screwb1882Yes that is offered on the project web site - I recommend heading over there to see details and photos. The TKL model is called the FSSK, named after the IBM 84 key SSK.
There was a cracking article in the early 90s that was headlined “Where have all the good keyboards gone?” or “what happened to all the good keyboards?”, something like that. I think that pretty much sums up what happened
Thats been my mentality. Late 90s i Learned to type on old worn Model Ms or similar keyboards. They were just keyboards to me. So their reverence still surprises me.
The thing about buckling spring keyboards that made them so popular with gamers etc is they are infinitely repairable. The only thing that is ever going to fail on them is that spring and it can be replaced with ease on many kbs that used them the spring sat n a metal peg that was the contact and then completed the circuit by touching a contact on the side to replace one pull the key cap use tweezers to put out the spring replace with new one put cap back on done
Going over this video, I think there's a few mistakes, so here are my thoughts and clarifications for viewers. 1:58 - "Apple IIs" - On screen, an Apple Extended Keyboard II was shown. The Apple Keyboard II was something else and intended for Apple Macintoshes, not even Apple II *computers* that had separate keyboards like the Apple IIGS. 2:30 - Shown reviews on Model Ms - Model Fs and Ms both use buckling springs, but there are some fundamental differences (from how presses are registered down to the number of spring coils). IMO, this distinction should have at least been briefly clarified. So, those reviews are of a keyboard with a switch that is known to feel slightly differently *and* is known to sound lower pitched. Whilst I love both Model Fs and Ms and they're in many ways similar, IMO, the reviews shown are not 100% reflective of this keyboard or its OG counterparts. 2:41 - Like above, comparing "old Model Ms" to brand new Model Fs is a bit problematic, especially trying to relate it to "age". The difference you may have felt wasn't age at all; Model Fs and Ms were always a bit different back in the '80s and today. 3:27 - "spring buckles and connects on the side of the switch". If by "connects" they mean connection to actuate, that's not how that works. When the spring buckles, it forces a plate on the bottom of the switch (called a flipper/rocker) to press down on a capacitance-sensing PCB (Model F) or membrane (Model M). 3:49 - "maybe add some foam... couple layers of tape". To get rid of the ping, the "floss mod" is a well-documented (and reversible) thing to do. It involves putting strings of dental floss inside the springs to stop them from resonating. A basic search should've found that for them before recommending (IMO) more awkward options. 7:57 - "calling it true red which is a little weird". It's named after the PANTONE name, but it seems the company themselves has already said that. 9:36 - "sculpted, almost SA if not actually SA". These keycaps are neither. When opened, you can see that the inner assembly itself is curved, allowing for the uniform not sculpted keycaps to be interchanged on any row. The keycaps' tops are cylindrical shaped, not spherical like SA would be. 11:38 - "rose tinted glasses". IMO, this may be sort of unfair. I was born after Model F production was believed to be finished, and I have no issue with them. In fact, there are a lot of younger people on various Discords and subreddits dedicated to IBM keyboards. Contrary to the end sentiment, AFAIK, the New Model F project didn't start to try introducing Fs to people, it became a thing because Model Fs already had fans in the modern day but the OG IBM 4704 F62 and F77 keyboards were difficult to find and costly. This F104 is just a new take to capitalise on the F62/F77's success. As someone who runs a website/wiki on IBM keyboards, /r/modelm and its Discord, I always get 'nervous sweats' with big videos on IBM/vintage keyboards since these misconceptions can be repeated, spread and then we have to deal with stuff "but, this big outlet said otherwise". It's happened. I absolutely respect Plouffe's opinion on not liking the sound or vintage keyboards (despite us getting dismissed as having "rose tinted glasses"), I just think a little more research would have helped the factual basis of the video. I get ShortCircuit is not meant to be ultra scripted and I don't think the set had a teleprompter to help when I saw it in tour videos, but I don't think that's reason not to have a quick look online about what's being discussed. My two cents.
@@thetamsin Model M uses a membrane. Model F uses a PCB. Regardless, both are considered very much "mechanical" in the general sense of the enthusiast terminology compared to typical rubber dome keyboards.
@@thetamsin what the government wo't tell you is that just inside that shell of the model f is a dell keyboard with rubber domes that the buckle springs actuate
@@hudsongreen2654 actually, in 1983, the chairman of the International Standards Organization, Dr. James Garfield, released a list of rules for "mechanical" switches. The IBM Model F broke 34 of them. For more information google "garfield rule 34"
Just watched Gamer Nexus's take on LMG! wow this has raised major concerns for me!! treating a startup like that is disgusting! looks like LMG are doing it for the money and not the tech, I have just unsubscribed, sorry LMG, thank you Gamer Nexus
I used to listen to a ton of LTT Wan shows, but I just can not stand how pompous Linus is as LMG founder. He always has to be right, always has an excues, and his politics are the only acceptable stance. So glad this is coming to light now, no wonder why "today sucks" for him....
Sorry, as part of LMG I can't support you. For the talented creators try striking out on your own or finding an ethical company to work for. For the SLIMEus apologists - be better people. Channel ignored.
Buckling springs aren't really about the sound. It's all about the feel. If you want something vintage that sounds and feels good the Alps switches are where it's at. The big problem with the alps switches being the design made them super prone to getting gunked up internally and when that happened they functioned much more poorly. So a lot of folks that used them never experienced what they actually felt like when properly cared for.
3:29 Is not entirely true. Buckling springs don't actuate by making electrical contact with the side of the housing, that's a common misconception. The springs are connected to a lever at the bottom of the switch that does that actuation. In the Model M the lever pushes on a membrane, similar to how a modern rubber dome works. On the Model F the lever is connected to a capacitive mechanism.
Plouffe being Plouffe wants to make this keyboard quieter and more "modern" but the feel and sound is the entire point. I don't like metalic ping enjoyable but I'm in love with loud clicky switches because of their sound so Plouffe this keyboard is clearly not for you. Ps. And don't act like linear switches are so much quieter. They are also audible and I for one don't like that kind of sound. Something about clicky switches just make me feel good.
@@ImJustPassingThrough The consensus in keyboard enthusiasts circle is that linear is best tactile feedback isn't needed and click is bad witch is opposite of the old approach.Its like giving a classic car for review for someone who like computerized electric cars no wander they want to make it more modern. I like to have both sonic and tactile feedback every keystroke. Makes typing more deliberate and satisfying to me. I don't have a problem with linear keyboards they are simply not for me.
@@christinastein1196 Even not long ago everyone was buying cherry blues and browns, and reds were considered only good for gaming, not typing. Now everyone is buying linear switches only pretty much. I agree. edit: my custom keyboard has gateron reds and they are easily as loud as my OG model M.
idk like I wouldn't even half surprised. when he was featured on the Mac Address's keyboard video, he seems very very inexperience towards vintage boards or non-MX based keyboards and honestly for me who have been watching the entire keyboard landscape over the last 5 years, these 2 videos - including this video and especially the parts about adding foam or tape to the switches, feels like an half-insult to me and not to mention the 30 frames per second that drained my eyes to its core
OK you've had someone who doesn't like IBM boards review the model in the new weird boxy case design. Now have someone who loves IBM buckling springs review one of the new 104 models but with the traditional Model M case option.
Not to mention that Unicomps are like the latests Model Ms released, cheaper, lighter and clumsier than the old units from the 80s. Both having the same buckling springs, the difference in typing is there.
You should try typing on a Model M that's in good shape. While Unicomp's keyboards are far better than the crappy $35 keyboard with the rubber dome switches, their build quality is very poor (I'm typing on one of the two I own right now). Also, n-key rollover is almost nonexistent and I see keypresses being dropped frequently when I'm typing fast. I can't wait to get my new Model F.
@@ratsputin69 Have you tried some of the newer Unicomp keyboards, they are supposed to have been getting better the last few years. Not as good as a Model F of course but still really good.
@@lucidnonsense942 Is there a big difference in feel? It looks like the mechanism is identical except for the way the paddle either completes the circuit, or changes a capacitance. I can see the capacitive mechanism being more reliable in the long run, but seeing that my Model Ms from the 80s are still working without issue, I question the necessity of it.
@@zorinlynx Yes, fairly noticeable difference in feel. The model Fs have a lighter actuation, and probably the best way to describe it is they feel crisper. I like my model M, but it has not returned to my desk since trying and acquiring an F. It feels much better, but its hard to describe without trying both. Keep in mind the original M was introduced as a cost saving measure. Also, Model Ms are sandwiched together with plastic rivets that tend to break. When only a couple have broken the keyboard will still register but feel mushy. A common mod is to replace these rivets with bolts once this happens
hmm. I didn't like that the difference between a model-f and model-m wasn't explained, to be honest. If somebody watches the video that doesn't know the history it feels like a model-m and model-f are the same. I had the feeling that the reviewer also don't know the difference. You can get a new Unicomp model-m for a good price. This is a model-f and build like a tank so more expensive. A video that compares the two would be nice :-) The viewer and I have another taste for keyboards, but that's fine of course.
@@stephenbrothers9185 quality of the unicomp keyboards is pretty low, they have crappy low quality molds and the color schemes are kind of odd. Boards aren't capacitive and it runs off a membrane like a normal crappy rubber dome keyboard. They feel nice but they aren't as good as a modern mechanical keyboard that actually has nkey rollover
@b_wellyn new unicomps are much better. I had an expert from 2010 which was pretty trash, but I bought a mini M from them recently, and the improvements are vast. New tooling I think
@@yeezet4592 yea they got new tooling but 100$ for a unrepairable membrane keyboard is a stretch. I can't use them because the slow response times and I can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time even on the newly designed membranes.
6:30 That's silly. Buckling springs are one of the most tactile switches that exist - far more tactile than any cherry switch. This is objectively demonstrated on the force curves. Would also have been nice if you went over how it's capacitive sensing, NKRO (unlike a Model M), programmability options, etc.
lol buckling springs are the definition of tactile. The buckling of the spring (the "tactile event") directly corresponds to the actuation of the switch. This channel is so dumb.
After the Model M, IBM briefly had a Model M2 on the market for a few years which is quite rare these days. My first PC (IBM PS-1 386) used the M2 and is basically a smaller version of the Model M but also with buckling springs. Sadly enough these were known to die because of the caps on the control board and taking them apart was HARD. There were no screws - it was all done by plastic tabs. On 30+ year old plastic this is not great. Of course you also need to remove all the key caps first. Me, being a masochist, did exactly that. I removed all the caps, managed to open up the keyboard without breaking off any of the plastic tabs, collected all 102 springs inside, removed the board, recapped it and then started the painstaking process of re-inserting all 102 springs and closing it back up. I had to repeat this THREE TIMES because each time a spring was slightly misaligned making a key not work. In the end I now have a working IBM Model M2 keyboard which is small in size but gives an authentic IBM experience. Be warned if you buy one off eBay: unless the seller specifically says it's been recapped, it WILL need recapping! Even if it says "tested", do NOT trust it. These keyboards will work for a while if you test them after they've been in storage for years and then they'll die. Re-capped these go for way more than the Model M though, so be warned.
I have two M2s and had to recap both, I've used brass inserts and screws (plus a countersink drill bit and delicate rotary tool work) to replace the clips on one but now it needs trace repairs on the membrane - great. An easier - but fiddlier - alternative is to trim the clip tab on the barrel plate then use pairs of small locking cable ties, trim the head of the one under the board and keep only the head portion of the one on top, gently lock in place.
@@LouisCYUL I guess I was lucky that all the clips survived on mine. I wanted to keep it as original as possible. I was also lucky to find someone sell an M2 with a cut cord for only €20 since it gave me some spare parts for mine. I recapped the spare board and have a spare membrane as well.
I hate all these "reviewers/unboxers" who encounter something different then their normal shitty keyboards/electronics then have to have the weird look thumbnail and act indignant during the ENTIRE video.
The part that Plouffe didn't liked is bacause keys expect original Model F indent, I suggest getting "Classic Style F104 Model F Keyboard" which has that indent and keys will be perfectly positioned there... The case design is at fault, and Classic case fixes that.
@@The_LoFi_Political_Guy It's a lawyer thing now, there's no way it isn't (if it is I'm going to roll on the floor and die laughing because that would be turning a layup into lowering the basket to 4ft and dropping the ball right on in the basket.)
I used to love Model M keyboards. I worked in IT and when we'd replace PC's that had these and I'd hide them in the storeroom. They were my go-to for years but I left and didn't use them anymore. Still love the sound, personally
I agree, those are valid concerns about LTT and LMG in general. Especially about the work environment! Sadly those concerns are nothing new. My new concern now after all this is about GN! The way GN handled this was not very professional. A lot of drama and sensationalism, not to mention mere speculation on many aspects, such as the subject of conflict of interest, without any proof and just attacking with conjecture without any regard to good journalistic practices. In addition to the fact that GN did not seek an official response to the allegations using the official LMG contact channels as any good journalist would. Not to mention the fact that GN inserted their response inside the Tech News video, monetized and also added a sponsor. They new it would get 10x more views, which they got, and in the end they did exactly what they were judging LTT for, before LTT removed monetization from the response video. It all got me thinking it maybe it wasn't just a news and journalistic piece, just about the good of the community and the industry, but maybe a hit piece to slow down direct competition and make noise and drama, which always earned them 10x more viewership compared to their own usual content. Talk about conflict of interest! Or am I seeing things? Or has the whole situation made me skeptical about everything and everyone?
@@deejrdee1 aren’t 3 major parts of the drama that 1. Linus auctioned off a piece of hardware he didn’t own (regardless of him paying them back, he didn’t have the right to sell it in the first place, charity or not) 2. harassment in the work place 3. Constant content cycle caused bad quality control leading to misinformation How could a call have changed things that happened in the past, it could have let Linus address it all earlier, but the core issues would still have happened. Him responding earlier doesn’t make the issues disappear. You can blame GN for Linus’ botched apology job, but you can’t blame them for the core issues that he had to apologize for
with that aluminum chassis, is sounds different... it doesn't have that "CLACK" sound it used to have with the plastic chassis, the aluminum chassis makes it have that bad "PING" noise.
Why wasn't Mac Address the one reviewing this? Edit: for context didn't the Horst the host want a model M since it sounded like the Sim keyboard? It would be interesting if this scratches that itch.
Why were we talking about modernizing a Model F. The who point of this product is to try an be what it was back in the day. That's the premium you pay for if you want one of these. Also not a fan of listening to every way this keyboard wasn't Plouffe's ideal keyboard he uses at home. I just didn't like how this felt more like a reaction video then a review... Maybe that is too harsh, idk.
not through the whole video yet, but you keep comparing model m and model f interchangeably. stop it. they are very different in sound and feel. model f buckling springs feel much better than model m, but sound a lot more pingy. model m buckling springs feel more "muddy" and less "crisp" but they sound a lot nicer, a bit deeper and with less pinging. that is why the "old model m" keyboards you typed on felt and sounded a lot different from this new model f - they are entirely different things, not just different ages of the same thing.
You don't like the sound, you think it needs some foam inside, you think a wrist rest is necessary... I have more than enough signs that indicate that you would be happier with a Razer or a Corsair, with RGB leds, volume control, wrist rests and all those things that the kids nowadays pay for. Classic keyboards are for those who can appreciate them. No offence, but this is like if someone gives me a Stradivari violin and asks me what I think of it and I say: "it's a violin, but it looks old and doesn't sound well when I rub this stick over the strings..."
I have a Model M from my dad and the model F sounds similar but the most important thing that both share is that it’s sounds like a machine gun when typing. Also love the heavy weight. I type weird and move my hand more like how you would use an old type writer so it fits my typing style. Also I absolutely hate, hate, HATE that “lubed keyboard thunk” sound.
Finally found someone who shares my view on keyboard sound. I have never liked the “creamy and thocky” sound signature most enthusiasts chase, I much prefer the sound of vintage switches like buckling springs or Alps SKCM, especially in a roomy resonant case that brings out the sound in them.
I have a Model F AT and it sounds a lot better because it has a plastic case. I would use it more if it had a more usable layout sadly The IBM Model F actuates via capacitance, unlike the Model M which uses a membrane. Therefore the main advantage the F has over the M is inherent N-key rollover. The Model F also has a lighter spring compared to the Model M as well. The floss mod can help to reduce the spring ping, but the ping itself is inherently part of the switch design. But the spring does not "connect" the switch, it's the flipping of the plastic flipper that actuates the switch. They also make Model F in original designs, such as the F62 "Kishsaver", F77 (not the F107 unfortunately), with a cast zinc base (just like the originals).
You can mod an F AT to have the two extra key slots (alts) to right and left of the spacebar, and replace the spacebar with shorter one from a Model M. It's a bit of work, but makes the layout much better. Also when use a programmable converter on it, you can remap the keys in hardware to whatever layout you prefer.
Just an idea, maybe get someone from the team to who has actual experience with the OG Model M to comment on it? Only for a few seconds/mins in the video, just a little "hey man what you think about this", is what I think was missing from the video.
You should have a link to the product or their shop and why does the description list " LTX 2023 TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW" when that event concluded weeks ago?
There was an error in the graphic that attempted to show how the buckling spring closed the contact. It is not the spring itself that closes the circuit when it touches the side (since the side is just the plastic cylinder of the key cap), but rather it is the V-shaped base which tilts and then closes the circuit between two pads on the PCB. So the PCB beneath the keyboard looks very similar to that of a regular membrane keyboard. I do agree that it looks wrong that the keys in the center hardly protrudes above the case. They could have at least made a curvature in the top half of the case to follow the keys, just like the original IBM design. Although I do own an original Model M along with a couple of M2s, I don't really like the feel and sound of using it, so to me it is more like a novelty.
In the case of the Model F, nothing closes contacts. The sensing is through capacitance and technically does not rely on two metal pieces coming together
The buckling spring doesn't make contact with the side of the switch, it slams a copper flap down on a contact on the switch base. It's the only keyboard switch that actually switches when you feel the tactile bump - the cherry browns and blues are merely poor imitations of this behaviour.
That would make sense considering he doesn't understand that Fs and Ms are different things, and Ms were still reasonably popular in the 1990s if on their way out.
@@FrickinBasilisk that's not going to do anything in a Model F. The pinging is from the buckling of the spring, which is how the switch works. The resolution is to floss mod the spring in each switch to dampen the ping.
I never comment just to be negative-- but come on, the guy doing this review couldn't sound more clueless... it hurts my brain to listen to him. It seems like the LTT guys found this guy lost inside a BestBuy looking for an HDMI cable. He was just walking in circles saying "I don't know! I just need a thing that goes to a thing, okay?" 😪
This is hands down the finest keyboard currently in production. The vast majority of people would agree that the typing feel is unmatched--crisp and perfectly weighted. The fidelity to the original Model F is truly remarkable. This "ultracompact" version is the only one that suffers from the aesthetic flaws you talked about, as all the other cases (i.e., the original and "classic" styles) match the curved profile of the switch plate. The F62 is currently $200 and the F77 is currently $225--the deal of the century. Get one while you can, as the creator is obviously trying to unload the last of his inventory.
My old FC guild mistress on FFXIV uses an old Model M for her gamming. We can hear her tying through her mic and we could tell the "Seriousness" of messages based on the length of the clicks. it was great.
Nice to see more Model-M/Fs are showing up - now if they only would start showing up in physical stores where I live (long story, issue with the post office). My Model-Ms got lost last time I moved and (17/18) I just can't get used to modern "mechanical keyboards" (but they are a lot nicer than rubberdomes) - I still constantly bottom out, can't really do "burst typing" (where you basically prime the next five or six fingers being used and then just let go (habit from playing piano) since I'm not quite sure when a key has fired (since the cognitive latency when typing like that is about 4-5 keys). And is it just me or does modern mechanical keyboards feel "crowded"? (almost like thye are about 1.5-2mm too close to each other (center-center)) Do try typing with a model-M/F in your lap they are awesome for this, their heft makes 'em stay in place and the comfort of being able to have your arms relaxed are wonderful. Now if only they would start comming with keyboard that has a space between Ctrl/Alt (both sides) - I kinda miss being able to rest my hands by folding them to the side when having a keyboard on desk. (Of for that matter a M5-1 (trackball and buttons between the arrows and the ins/del/home/end/pgUp/pgDn)) With modding, my fav Model-M mod is to replace the stabiliser bar for the spacebar and stretch the spring a smidge - if you mess with it right you can basically drop the actuation force down to silly low levels, which really avoids the "mechanical break" you end up having whenever you need to hit the spacebar on pretty much all keyboards (since you basically can just "brush" the spacebar with the thumb while re-priming your fingers for next burst type) (Btw, do Plouffe have a piano background? If not, can we get a quick opinion from someone in the company that does have it?)
@@mycosysProbably, and while I've seen lots of force curves regarding pressure applied I havn't seen any on "resistance disappearing" (a buckling spring when pushed past its trigger point suddenly drops to near-zero, so just like with a piano when you feel the force goes away you know the key is properly hit (unless very slow on a piano)). Got any starter point (brand, model) for good switches that have that sudden disappearance (collapse) of resistance?
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello, project coordinator here. Thanks Nicholas and the entire ShortCircuit team for putting together a nice video covering the Brand New Model F Keyboard! It is great to get the word out about these great keyboards that definitely take some getting used to!
Kindly see my replies to some of the notes brought up in the video:
The pinginess / reverberation: Some folks that prefer a Model F board without the higher pitch sounds. The best thing about buckling spring keyboards is the a longstanding community that has come up with various repair and maintenance step by step guides and mods, including the Floss Mod and the grease mod, to reduce or eliminate the high-pitch / pinginess while typing. My guess is that the main reason for the pinginess is the super thick steel plates reverberating inside the keyboard.
Why True Red? Well it's the Pantone designation for the particular shade of red. The factory prefers Pantone references when doing the finishing.
Recessed keys: The reason for the extra recessed keys for a couple of the rows is that the Ultra Compact F104 case top in the video is flat and the Model F and Model M design require a curved plate inside the keyboard. One result of this is that the key profiles are all uniform and a key can be installed on the various rows. The Model M style F104, FSSK, and F122 cases are all curved where the keys are, just like the IBM originals, so the keys will stick out more evenly.
Casting: The Ultra Compact cases for the F104 and FSSK were CNC milled and have 3 main parts, while the ultra compact cases for the F62 and F77 keyboards are die cast, while the first rounds of the compact F62/F77 boards were CNC milled. The Model M style case Model F keyboards all have die cast cases.
Regarding the low serials, they are mainly there to allow folks to offer a little extra support to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars in project cost overruns, the near-endless express air mail sample charges over the years, etc. Many folks also like a custom serial because it allows them to pick a date for the production date, like their birthday or an anniversary of some date. In the Model M community forums it is always notable to get a board made the same year you were born, or if you were lucky, on your actual birthday (and actual birth year too!).
Why would you call this keyboard the model F when it is clearly based on the model M?
@@McLovinMods The keyboard is a Model F keyboard, which uses the same capacitive buckling spring technology as the original IBM Model F keyboard. The similarity with the Model M is that the layout is same as the Model M keyboards that came out after the Model F. The Model M was actually IBM's effort to cut two-thirds of the cost out of their Model F which originally went for $600 in the early 80s, adjusted for inflation. The Model F produces a much crisper sound with each key press as it has a much larger flipper that snaps against a huge PCB underneath all of the keys.
Any possibility of a TKL version?
@@screwb1882 How about you use a search engine and find out for yourself.
@@screwb1882Yes that is offered on the project web site - I recommend heading over there to see details and photos. The TKL model is called the FSSK, named after the IBM 84 key SSK.
When I was growing up these were just keyboards. Funny how they've become so revered.
I much prefer my modern mech
There was a cracking article in the early 90s that was headlined “Where have all the good keyboards gone?” or “what happened to all the good keyboards?”, something like that. I think that pretty much sums up what happened
ok bro@@MrML4L
Thats been my mentality. Late 90s i Learned to type on old worn Model Ms or similar keyboards. They were just keyboards to me. So their reverence still surprises me.
The thing about buckling spring keyboards that made them so popular with gamers etc is they are infinitely repairable. The only thing that is ever going to fail on them is that spring and it can be replaced with ease on many kbs that used them the spring sat n a metal peg that was the contact and then completed the circuit by touching a contact on the side to replace one pull the key cap use tweezers to put out the spring replace with new one put cap back on done
Going over this video, I think there's a few mistakes, so here are my thoughts and clarifications for viewers.
1:58 - "Apple IIs" - On screen, an Apple Extended Keyboard II was shown. The Apple Keyboard II was something else and intended for Apple Macintoshes, not even Apple II *computers* that had separate keyboards like the Apple IIGS.
2:30 - Shown reviews on Model Ms - Model Fs and Ms both use buckling springs, but there are some fundamental differences (from how presses are registered down to the number of spring coils). IMO, this distinction should have at least been briefly clarified. So, those reviews are of a keyboard with a switch that is known to feel slightly differently *and* is known to sound lower pitched. Whilst I love both Model Fs and Ms and they're in many ways similar, IMO, the reviews shown are not 100% reflective of this keyboard or its OG counterparts.
2:41 - Like above, comparing "old Model Ms" to brand new Model Fs is a bit problematic, especially trying to relate it to "age". The difference you may have felt wasn't age at all; Model Fs and Ms were always a bit different back in the '80s and today.
3:27 - "spring buckles and connects on the side of the switch". If by "connects" they mean connection to actuate, that's not how that works. When the spring buckles, it forces a plate on the bottom of the switch (called a flipper/rocker) to press down on a capacitance-sensing PCB (Model F) or membrane (Model M).
3:49 - "maybe add some foam... couple layers of tape". To get rid of the ping, the "floss mod" is a well-documented (and reversible) thing to do. It involves putting strings of dental floss inside the springs to stop them from resonating. A basic search should've found that for them before recommending (IMO) more awkward options.
7:57 - "calling it true red which is a little weird". It's named after the PANTONE name, but it seems the company themselves has already said that.
9:36 - "sculpted, almost SA if not actually SA". These keycaps are neither. When opened, you can see that the inner assembly itself is curved, allowing for the uniform not sculpted keycaps to be interchanged on any row. The keycaps' tops are cylindrical shaped, not spherical like SA would be.
11:38 - "rose tinted glasses". IMO, this may be sort of unfair. I was born after Model F production was believed to be finished, and I have no issue with them. In fact, there are a lot of younger people on various Discords and subreddits dedicated to IBM keyboards. Contrary to the end sentiment, AFAIK, the New Model F project didn't start to try introducing Fs to people, it became a thing because Model Fs already had fans in the modern day but the OG IBM 4704 F62 and F77 keyboards were difficult to find and costly. This F104 is just a new take to capitalise on the F62/F77's success.
As someone who runs a website/wiki on IBM keyboards, /r/modelm and its Discord, I always get 'nervous sweats' with big videos on IBM/vintage keyboards since these misconceptions can be repeated, spread and then we have to deal with stuff "but, this big outlet said otherwise". It's happened. I absolutely respect Plouffe's opinion on not liking the sound or vintage keyboards (despite us getting dismissed as having "rose tinted glasses"), I just think a little more research would have helped the factual basis of the video. I get ShortCircuit is not meant to be ultra scripted and I don't think the set had a teleprompter to help when I saw it in tour videos, but I don't think that's reason not to have a quick look online about what's being discussed. My two cents.
Hello friend, unfortunately Model F is not TRUELY mechanical keyboard, as it uses a membrane underneath the flippers. Hope that helps
@@thetamsin It's crazy to think a rubber dome keyboard has become so legendary. Especially to the point that people confuse it as mechanical.
@@thetamsin Model M uses a membrane. Model F uses a PCB. Regardless, both are considered very much "mechanical" in the general sense of the enthusiast terminology compared to typical rubber dome keyboards.
@@thetamsin what the government wo't tell you is that just inside that shell of the model f is a dell keyboard with rubber domes that the buckle springs actuate
@@hudsongreen2654 actually, in 1983, the chairman of the International Standards Organization, Dr. James Garfield, released a list of rules for "mechanical" switches. The IBM Model F broke 34 of them. For more information google "garfield rule 34"
Just watched Gamer Nexus's take on LMG! wow this has raised major concerns for me!! treating a startup like that is disgusting! looks like LMG are doing it for the money and not the tech, I have just unsubscribed, sorry LMG, thank you Gamer Nexus
@@randomhero123 No need to fan the flames, man. GN was already in the right, that's all they need
I used to listen to a ton of LTT Wan shows, but I just can not stand how pompous Linus is as LMG founder. He always has to be right, always has an excues, and his politics are the only acceptable stance. So glad this is coming to light now, no wonder why "today sucks" for him....
Sorry, as part of LMG I can't support you.
For the talented creators try striking out on your own or finding an ethical company to work for.
For the SLIMEus apologists - be better people.
Channel ignored.
Buckling springs aren't really about the sound. It's all about the feel. If you want something vintage that sounds and feels good the Alps switches are where it's at. The big problem with the alps switches being the design made them super prone to getting gunked up internally and when that happened they functioned much more poorly. So a lot of folks that used them never experienced what they actually felt like when properly cared for.
Lucky there wasn't any tape on the keys.
Considering the recent video from Gamers Nexus about your poor accountability from bad data, I am unsubscribing from this channel.
3:29 Is not entirely true. Buckling springs don't actuate by making electrical contact with the side of the housing, that's a common misconception. The springs are connected to a lever at the bottom of the switch that does that actuation. In the Model M the lever pushes on a membrane, similar to how a modern rubber dome works. On the Model F the lever is connected to a capacitive mechanism.
also they weren't the only mech switch at the time. alps existed and were much like our modern switches.
Will you be auctioning it or just s**ually harassing it?
Neither, just touch grass
@@Someone-wx9lq It was a joke fanboy. They earned a week of jabs and banter I think even they would agree with that.
Linus: "My company is valued at $100 million."
Also Linus: "I can't afford to spend $500 to retest."
Plouffe being Plouffe wants to make this keyboard quieter and more "modern" but the feel and sound is the entire point. I don't like metalic ping enjoyable but I'm in love with loud clicky switches because of their sound so Plouffe this keyboard is clearly not for you.
Ps. And don't act like linear switches are so much quieter. They are also audible and I for one don't like that kind of sound. Something about clicky switches just make me feel good.
There was a a lot of "I don't see the point, it's not like the current popular style".
@@ImJustPassingThrough The consensus in keyboard enthusiasts circle is that linear is best tactile feedback isn't needed and click is bad witch is opposite of the old approach.Its like giving a classic car for review for someone who like computerized electric cars no wander they want to make it more modern. I like to have both sonic and tactile feedback every keystroke. Makes typing more deliberate and satisfying to me. I don't have a problem with linear keyboards they are simply not for me.
@@christinastein1196 Even not long ago everyone was buying cherry blues and browns, and reds were considered only good for gaming, not typing. Now everyone is buying linear switches only pretty much. I agree.
edit: my custom keyboard has gateron reds and they are easily as loud as my OG model M.
Some much incorrect info in this video. I’m sorry guys but come on. I’m still not even sure if plouffe knows a model M and F are two different things.
There's no way a keyboard nerd wouldn't know the difference between an M and F
3/4 of the commenters on the video think this is an M and don't know the difference, either, so they're just catering to their audience.
idk like I wouldn't even half surprised. when he was featured on the Mac Address's keyboard video, he seems very very inexperience towards vintage boards or non-MX based keyboards and honestly for me who have been watching the entire keyboard landscape over the last 5 years, these 2 videos - including this video and especially the parts about adding foam or tape to the switches, feels like an half-insult to me and not to mention the 30 frames per second that drained my eyes to its core
Man...this guy knows the bare minimum about mechanical keyboards. Everytime he speaks it's a cringe fest.
Anyone believe anything in the testing reportedly done here? No? Me neither
did you guys remember to take off all the plastic this time for your review
OK you've had someone who doesn't like IBM boards review the model in the new weird boxy case design. Now have someone who loves IBM buckling springs review one of the new 104 models but with the traditional Model M case option.
Unsubscribed button
Nah
This comment was typed on a Unicomp new model M. By far the best keyboard I have ever used. Don't see myself ever using anything else from now on.
I hope you'll get to try a Model F some day. Model M's are good but F's are just... better.
Not to mention that Unicomps are like the latests Model Ms released, cheaper, lighter and clumsier than the old units from the 80s. Both having the same buckling springs, the difference in typing is there.
You should try typing on a Model M that's in good shape. While Unicomp's keyboards are far better than the crappy $35 keyboard with the rubber dome switches, their build quality is very poor (I'm typing on one of the two I own right now). Also, n-key rollover is almost nonexistent and I see keypresses being dropped frequently when I'm typing fast. I can't wait to get my new Model F.
@@ratsputin69 Have you tried some of the newer Unicomp keyboards, they are supposed to have been getting better the last few years. Not as good as a Model F of course but still really good.
@@ratsputin69Unicomp have supposedly replaced all their ancient molding equipment so the new model m’s are meant to be good quality
Are you sure this product doesn't have protective film or you guys gonna call it out Don't buy it?
SHAME LMG!
Nicotine beige is the only color this should ever exist in
even IBM themselves made model Fs in multiple colors, like blue or black, so it's not true
Model M's and Model F's are very different. You can't really talk about them interchangeably.
Yeah, this is very much an M.
@@funspoylerNO - these are F guts in M styled case. M is resistive membrane, F capacitive
@@lucidnonsense942 Is there a big difference in feel? It looks like the mechanism is identical except for the way the paddle either completes the circuit, or changes a capacitance. I can see the capacitive mechanism being more reliable in the long run, but seeing that my Model Ms from the 80s are still working without issue, I question the necessity of it.
@@zorinlynx Yes, fairly noticeable difference in feel. The model Fs have a lighter actuation, and probably the best way to describe it is they feel crisper. I like my model M, but it has not returned to my desk since trying and acquiring an F. It feels much better, but its hard to describe without trying both. Keep in mind the original M was introduced as a cost saving measure. Also, Model Ms are sandwiched together with plastic rivets that tend to break. When only a couple have broken the keyboard will still register but feel mushy. A common mod is to replace these rivets with bolts once this happens
Ms* & Fs* …apostrophes are for contractions & possession
If we could actually have someone who actually know their stuff about keyboard, it would be great.
What is this video?? ....
did you take all the stickers off this time?
LMG is garbage!
hmm. I didn't like that the difference between a model-f and model-m wasn't explained, to be honest.
If somebody watches the video that doesn't know the history it feels like a model-m and model-f are the same.
I had the feeling that the reviewer also don't know the difference.
You can get a new Unicomp model-m for a good price. This is a model-f and build like a tank so more expensive. A video that compares the two would be nice :-)
The viewer and I have another taste for keyboards, but that's fine of course.
Did you make sure to take the plastic film off this time?
I am unsubscribing due to bad content and poor reviews... I will be instead supporting gamers nexus
PROTOTYPE ... hand it over to the competition.
😷
I think auctioning it might be a good idea.
@@diezeeshoodie sure if you het money from the competition...
Or if you think it's a vaccine and not a bio weapon.
Plouffe just casually ignoring that Unicomp have been making effectively the original Model M continuously for decades 🤷♂️
They're also made in the USA vs these made in China
@@stephenbrothers9185 quality of the unicomp keyboards is pretty low, they have crappy low quality molds and the color schemes are kind of odd. Boards aren't capacitive and it runs off a membrane like a normal crappy rubber dome keyboard. They feel nice but they aren't as good as a modern mechanical keyboard that actually has nkey rollover
@b_wellyn new unicomps are much better. I had an expert from 2010 which was pretty trash, but I bought a mini M from them recently, and the improvements are vast. New tooling I think
You just casually ignoring that this isn't a Model M.
@@yeezet4592 yea they got new tooling but 100$ for a unrepairable membrane keyboard is a stretch. I can't use them because the slow response times and I can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time even on the newly designed membranes.
If you feel the urge to mod this keyboard, this is not your keyboard.
6:30 That's silly. Buckling springs are one of the most tactile switches that exist - far more tactile than any cherry switch. This is objectively demonstrated on the force curves. Would also have been nice if you went over how it's capacitive sensing, NKRO (unlike a Model M), programmability options, etc.
lol buckling springs are the definition of tactile. The buckling of the spring (the "tactile event") directly corresponds to the actuation of the switch. This channel is so dumb.
BUCKLING SPRINGS are the perfect keyboard experience. Anything else is subpar.
FULL DISCLOURE THIS WAS A JOKE DO NOT BAN ME
Unsubbed 😂
After the Model M, IBM briefly had a Model M2 on the market for a few years which is quite rare these days. My first PC (IBM PS-1 386) used the M2 and is basically a smaller version of the Model M but also with buckling springs. Sadly enough these were known to die because of the caps on the control board and taking them apart was HARD. There were no screws - it was all done by plastic tabs. On 30+ year old plastic this is not great. Of course you also need to remove all the key caps first.
Me, being a masochist, did exactly that. I removed all the caps, managed to open up the keyboard without breaking off any of the plastic tabs, collected all 102 springs inside, removed the board, recapped it and then started the painstaking process of re-inserting all 102 springs and closing it back up. I had to repeat this THREE TIMES because each time a spring was slightly misaligned making a key not work.
In the end I now have a working IBM Model M2 keyboard which is small in size but gives an authentic IBM experience.
Be warned if you buy one off eBay: unless the seller specifically says it's been recapped, it WILL need recapping! Even if it says "tested", do NOT trust it. These keyboards will work for a while if you test them after they've been in storage for years and then they'll die. Re-capped these go for way more than the Model M though, so be warned.
I have two M2s and had to recap both, I've used brass inserts and screws (plus a countersink drill bit and delicate rotary tool work) to replace the clips on one but now it needs trace repairs on the membrane - great. An easier - but fiddlier - alternative is to trim the clip tab on the barrel plate then use pairs of small locking cable ties, trim the head of the one under the board and keep only the head portion of the one on top, gently lock in place.
@@LouisCYUL I guess I was lucky that all the clips survived on mine. I wanted to keep it as original as possible. I was also lucky to find someone sell an M2 with a cut cord for only €20 since it gave me some spare parts for mine. I recapped the spare board and have a spare membrane as well.
Way to go full artesian Linus
Scrubbing y’all from my subscriptions until LMG decides to start behaving scrupulously
I did the same
Lol
Kudos to the editor of this one. Great job!
Thanks you’re welcome
They were having way too much fun with that weighing scene.
‽
to reduce the ping you can put floss inside the springs, it may feel slightly more mushy but will make the sound a lot more bearable
well also this one is meta bodied the originals were plastic which would dull the sound a bit
At that point, it's not even worth it.
@@nanaki-seto true, foaming it up i guess could make up for it
I'd rather just buy a different keyboard at that point
I 100% rock the floss mod on all my Model Ms
Unsubscribed
Have fun 👋😊
@@Someone-wx9lqJeez you’re defending Linus as if your life depends on it in this entire comment section
I hate all these "reviewers/unboxers" who encounter something different then their normal shitty keyboards/electronics then have to have the weird look thumbnail and act indignant during the ENTIRE video.
The part that Plouffe didn't liked is bacause keys expect original Model F indent, I suggest getting "Classic Style F104 Model F Keyboard" which has that indent and keys will be perfectly positioned there... The case design is at fault, and Classic case fixes that.
Can we get fact checking?
Sorry sweaty but no it's 500 an hour.
Old enough for Apple II but not old enough for IBM M? May want to look at that timeline :D.
Are you going to release a statement about auctioning off a prototype that belonged to another company?
My gues no. They are going to go full artesian
@@The_LoFi_Political_Guy It's a lawyer thing now, there's no way it isn't (if it is I'm going to roll on the floor and die laughing because that would be turning a layup into lowering the basket to 4ft and dropping the ball right on in the basket.)
Sebastian Linus: „Don‘t judge a company for errors, look how they react to critique.“
Well, well, well how the turntables….
Linus Auction TIps
LTT sponsor us today and you can be sure we auction your product later and then send you 1O€ for compensation. Stay tuned for more.
Ping me when you want to auction that off as well.
Ping me when you find a reason to live
At least he didn't forget to take it out of the box.
Hit F for the death of LMG.
I hope they go down like artesian builds.
F
Lol they aren't close to going down, check back in a few months. Most likely both their revenue and sub count gonna be higher then a week ago was
Why the frigg are you rushing LMG ??!!
I used to love Model M keyboards. I worked in IT and when we'd replace PC's that had these and I'd hide them in the storeroom. They were my go-to for years but I left and didn't use them anymore. Still love the sound, personally
Thaats such a good story!
The space between the upper Key rows are for descriptor overlays for the specific programs you used .
Hi Glenn, I hope you realize that the switch is not triggered by the spring hitting the side, but rather flippers hitting the bottom.
The sound is because of the aluminium case. That should be plastic.
I'm pretty sure it's zink
I agree, those are valid concerns about LTT and LMG in general. Especially about the work environment! Sadly those concerns are nothing new.
My new concern now after all this is about GN!
The way GN handled this was not very professional. A lot of drama and sensationalism, not to mention mere speculation on many aspects, such as the subject of conflict of interest, without any proof and just attacking with conjecture without any regard to good journalistic practices.
In addition to the fact that GN did not seek an official response to the allegations using the official LMG contact channels as any good journalist would.
Not to mention the fact that GN inserted their response inside the Tech News video, monetized and also added a sponsor. They new it would get 10x more views, which they got, and in the end they did exactly what they were judging LTT for, before LTT removed monetization from the response video.
It all got me thinking it maybe it wasn't just a news and journalistic piece, just about the good of the community and the industry, but maybe a hit piece to slow down direct competition and make noise and drama, which always earned them 10x more viewership compared to their own usual content.
Talk about conflict of interest!
Or am I seeing things? Or has the whole situation made me skeptical about everything and everyone?
You would be right; Gamer's Nexus is the cause behind all of this. Had they just called LMG, none of this would be happening at all.
@@deejrdee1 aren’t 3 major parts of the drama that
1. Linus auctioned off a piece of hardware he didn’t own (regardless of him paying them back, he didn’t have the right to sell it in the first place, charity or not)
2. harassment in the work place
3. Constant content cycle caused bad quality control leading to misinformation
How could a call have changed things that happened in the past, it could have let Linus address it all earlier, but the core issues would still have happened. Him responding earlier doesn’t make the issues disappear. You can blame GN for Linus’ botched apology job, but you can’t blame them for the core issues that he had to apologize for
Unsubscribe from LTT groups after wathcing gamernexus video
with that aluminum chassis, is sounds different... it doesn't have that "CLACK" sound it used to have with the plastic chassis, the aluminum chassis makes it have that bad "PING" noise.
You don't foam mod these things....
Why wasn't Mac Address the one reviewing this? Edit: for context didn't the Horst the host want a model M since it sounded like the Sim keyboard? It would be interesting if this scratches that itch.
Why were we talking about modernizing a Model F. The who point of this product is to try an be what it was back in the day. That's the premium you pay for if you want one of these. Also not a fan of listening to every way this keyboard wasn't Plouffe's ideal keyboard he uses at home. I just didn't like how this felt more like a reaction video then a review... Maybe that is too harsh, idk.
@dot8803 It's a hobo they found on the street to review it probably 😂
not through the whole video yet, but you keep comparing model m and model f interchangeably. stop it. they are very different in sound and feel. model f buckling springs feel much better than model m, but sound a lot more pingy. model m buckling springs feel more "muddy" and less "crisp" but they sound a lot nicer, a bit deeper and with less pinging. that is why the "old model m" keyboards you typed on felt and sounded a lot different from this new model f - they are entirely different things, not just different ages of the same thing.
This is the most dog-water review of a mechanical keyboard over the internet.
You don't like the sound, you think it needs some foam inside, you think a wrist rest is necessary... I have more than enough signs that indicate that you would be happier with a Razer or a Corsair, with RGB leds, volume control, wrist rests and all those things that the kids nowadays pay for. Classic keyboards are for those who can appreciate them. No offence, but this is like if someone gives me a Stradivari violin and asks me what I think of it and I say: "it's a violin, but it looks old and doesn't sound well when I rub this stick over the strings..."
Careful, they might auction it and make themselves the victim
Nah
I don't know why, but that constantly changing weight made me laugh way too much.
I have a Model M from my dad and the model F sounds similar but the most important thing that both share is that it’s sounds like a machine gun when typing. Also love the heavy weight. I type weird and move my hand more like how you would use an old type writer so it fits my typing style.
Also I absolutely hate, hate, HATE that “lubed keyboard thunk” sound.
Finally found someone who shares my view on keyboard sound. I have never liked the “creamy and thocky” sound signature most enthusiasts chase, I much prefer the sound of vintage switches like buckling springs or Alps SKCM, especially in a roomy resonant case that brings out the sound in them.
I have a Model F AT and it sounds a lot better because it has a plastic case. I would use it more if it had a more usable layout sadly
The IBM Model F actuates via capacitance, unlike the Model M which uses a membrane. Therefore the main advantage the F has over the M is inherent N-key rollover. The Model F also has a lighter spring compared to the Model M as well.
The floss mod can help to reduce the spring ping, but the ping itself is inherently part of the switch design. But the spring does not "connect" the switch, it's the flipping of the plastic flipper that actuates the switch.
They also make Model F in original designs, such as the F62 "Kishsaver", F77 (not the F107 unfortunately), with a cast zinc base (just like the originals).
You can mod an F AT to have the two extra key slots (alts) to right and left of the spacebar, and replace the spacebar with shorter one from a Model M. It's a bit of work, but makes the layout much better. Also when use a programmable converter on it, you can remap the keys in hardware to whatever layout you prefer.
Just an idea, maybe get someone from the team to who has actual experience with the OG Model M to comment on it? Only for a few seconds/mins in the video, just a little "hey man what you think about this", is what I think was missing from the video.
This, but with a Model F (since this is a Model F, not a Model M).
You should have a link to the product or their shop and why does the description list " LTX 2023 TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW" when that event concluded weeks ago?
There was an error in the graphic that attempted to show how the buckling spring closed the contact. It is not the spring itself that closes the circuit when it touches the side (since the side is just the plastic cylinder of the key cap), but rather it is the V-shaped base which tilts and then closes the circuit between two pads on the PCB. So the PCB beneath the keyboard looks very similar to that of a regular membrane keyboard.
I do agree that it looks wrong that the keys in the center hardly protrudes above the case. They could have at least made a curvature in the top half of the case to follow the keys, just like the original IBM design.
Although I do own an original Model M along with a couple of M2s, I don't really like the feel and sound of using it, so to me it is more like a novelty.
In the case of the Model F, nothing closes contacts. The sensing is through capacitance and technically does not rely on two metal pieces coming together
Even in the case of capacitive buckling spring, it still requires a circuit to be closed, although it will just be for AC.
Did you guys steal this also ?
Nah, it's just you wasting your time
Did you rush this video too?
The buckling spring doesn't make contact with the side of the switch, it slams a copper flap down on a contact on the switch base. It's the only keyboard switch that actually switches when you feel the tactile bump - the cherry browns and blues are merely poor imitations of this behaviour.
It's a shame that Ellipse is Ellipse tho
For some reason I am OVERLY bother by the fact that at 1:38 the colour options are brought on screen and yet "RED" doesn't get labelled at all.
This keyboard is great. It can help auction off other people's property faster.
Madison
1:02 love it when the editor puts these nice little touches in there
when he said "its over 6" they put 6
"Feels like you're typing on a keyboard from 20 maybe 30 years ago" my friend that was the early 2000s or late 90s
That would make sense considering he doesn't understand that Fs and Ms are different things, and Ms were still reasonably popular in the 1990s if on their way out.
All hail buckling spring. Doesn't need foam or tape
WAH
Get your ears checked. Did you hear the sounds? Its awful and needs PE foam or something
so true
@@FrickinBasilisk that's not going to do anything in a Model F. The pinging is from the buckling of the spring, which is how the switch works. The resolution is to floss mod the spring in each switch to dampen the ping.
The mic you're using picks up s's really bad.
Also not a fan of buckling springs. I'd be more interested in the Beam springs that the same company just released. That is OLD school!
I never comment just to be negative-- but come on, the guy doing this review couldn't sound more clueless... it hurts my brain to listen to him.
It seems like the LTT guys found this guy lost inside a BestBuy looking for an HDMI cable. He was just walking in circles saying "I don't know! I just need a thing that goes to a thing, okay?" 😪
The audio is great because I hate it, I would rather type on a rubber dome keyboard 😢
I never noticed "colorway" until it was pointed out. and holy crap I hate it now. Where did this come from?! why
This is hands down the finest keyboard currently in production. The vast majority of people would agree that the typing feel is unmatched--crisp and perfectly weighted. The fidelity to the original Model F is truly remarkable. This "ultracompact" version is the only one that suffers from the aesthetic flaws you talked about, as all the other cases (i.e., the original and "classic" styles) match the curved profile of the switch plate. The F62 is currently $200 and the F77 is currently $225--the deal of the century. Get one while you can, as the creator is obviously trying to unload the last of his inventory.
WOW!!!! thats is a gorgious keyboard. the sound personally not so much. but glad to see a titan to rise from the grave
A full size keyboard? Thats new.. More full sized keyboards pls.
weird that old keyboard should not sound pingy.. i think that because of the aluminum body.
Yes it should. An original F is inherently pingy. It's a feature, not a bug. You can dampen the ping with fluffy dental floss.
I'm surprised they didn't bring Linus in to get his opinion on how it compares.
keyboard snob judging passion project.....next
1:08 @ editor, very fun edits. < 6 is less than 6 though. At least in the systems I'm familiar with.
My old FC guild mistress on FFXIV uses an old Model M for her gamming. We can hear her tying through her mic and we could tell the "Seriousness" of messages based on the length of the clicks. it was great.
Nice to see more Model-M/Fs are showing up - now if they only would start showing up in physical stores where I live (long story, issue with the post office).
My Model-Ms got lost last time I moved and (17/18) I just can't get used to modern "mechanical keyboards" (but they are a lot nicer than rubberdomes) - I still constantly bottom out, can't really do "burst typing" (where you basically prime the next five or six fingers being used and then just let go (habit from playing piano) since I'm not quite sure when a key has fired (since the cognitive latency when typing like that is about 4-5 keys).
And is it just me or does modern mechanical keyboards feel "crowded"? (almost like thye are about 1.5-2mm too close to each other (center-center))
Do try typing with a model-M/F in your lap they are awesome for this, their heft makes 'em stay in place and the comfort of being able to have your arms relaxed are wonderful.
Now if only they would start comming with keyboard that has a space between Ctrl/Alt (both sides) - I kinda miss being able to rest my hands by folding them to the side when having a keyboard on desk. (Of for that matter a M5-1 (trackball and buttons between the arrows and the ins/del/home/end/pgUp/pgDn))
With modding, my fav Model-M mod is to replace the stabiliser bar for the spacebar and stretch the spring a smidge - if you mess with it right you can basically drop the actuation force down to silly low levels, which really avoids the "mechanical break" you end up having whenever you need to hit the spacebar on pretty much all keyboards (since you basically can just "brush" the spacebar with the thumb while re-priming your fingers for next burst type)
(Btw, do Plouffe have a piano background? If not, can we get a quick opinion from someone in the company that does have it?)
@@mycosysProbably, and while I've seen lots of force curves regarding pressure applied I havn't seen any on "resistance disappearing" (a buckling spring when pushed past its trigger point suddenly drops to near-zero, so just like with a piano when you feel the force goes away you know the key is properly hit (unless very slow on a piano)).
Got any starter point (brand, model) for good switches that have that sudden disappearance (collapse) of resistance?
@@mycosysFair point, but it collapses enough for the muscles to notice it clearly.
Thanks, hadn't heard of those switches, will look them up.
No hate towards Plouffe but please get someone enthusiastic about old electronics to do videos like these.
The typing sounds like the keyboard Jonathan was looking for in that Sims keyboard video co-op you did a while back.
About time you guys reviewed a keyboard for grownups, hah.
everyone's Madison at you.
oh wait i meant mad, sorry to jumpscare you with the consequences of your actions.