Please don't feel like you have to come up with new ideas every video. Just loading up with 0 expectations and just saying what comes to mind would be something I would still watch.
this is something i subconsciously knew while playing and used to attribute it to the other player just being better (which is true) but i would also put myself in the defender position alot for free yet still be frustrated when it felt like i had to defend so often
I agree with the ‘defender’ idea a lot! I was rewatching summit 14 Ralph v leffen and taking notes on what neutral looks like for fox against a fast grounded character and comparing it to KJH analysis last week in vod review where they realized the best option was actually to run through ossify instead of wavedash back because their option tree had been sheared and realized something like: My first move is what my game plan should be based on. It’s great to know what I’m going to do after the first hit but to win neutral by definition you need a hit first/opening. Movement options also count as moves. Wavedash back or shining inappropriately have just as much frame lag issues as a bad jab or dtilt or whatever. From this point I can structure a neutral game plan around like: What are my fast options? How do I hit, and if I do -> what do I connect with next? What are my opponents characters fastest options? Am I executing my tech, and is my movement consistent enough to be creative? Etc.. Idk if it would help other people cause everybody plays different but this mentality helped me unlearn running in every single interaction because my character moves faster + helped me deeper understand like how to execute pressure I guess cause power shield is just another strong and fast move and attacking/defending shield has the same checklist as neutral of like identifying the fastest options
Around 10:00 KJH is talking about labbing for alternative win conditions like switching positions or saving some percent and resetting instead of always trying to get the counter hit and I think that’s a great idea! Falco is not really a reversal character, right? I mean if he could, every shine he hit would be free and unchallenged. Pressure on shield, punishing end lag. I think whenever KJH was talking about edgeguarding and avoiding getting reversal’s’ that should be more universal in someone’s game plan. Like “don’t get hit” can and should mean play to your characters strengths. I like playing a lot of characters even basically because they all teach me different things. Speed with fox, aerial timing and drift with falcon, space control with marth, etc etc
15:00 this is probably what was meant, but do you think there’s more or less true neutral based on the match up and even the e stage? Something maybe about the better player can be expected to be more likely to approach faster, being less timid about neutral in matchups mid level players may fluff longer like falco dittos where there can be a lot more empty lasers, for example, then you’d see from pro falco’s
Pre-watch comment: I don't think its helpful to think about offense and defense in melee. My way if thinking about the game is through situations. And in those situations you want to evaluate clearly and without any pattern besides the pattern of the match. I worry that thinking about offense and defense will cause me to act as an offensive player in offensive situations and vice-versa. This would be fine in a one player game, but because my opponent can recognize I am playing some style, they can then play appropriately to counter that way of thinking. Tldr Playing when thinking in terms of offense and defense keeps you from playing tapped in Post-watch comment... Currently watching vid Notes : (not complete thoughts) Defense defined as frame disadvantage Defenders trade frame advantage for information Defenders goal is to make themselves hard to hit Maybe it would be best to define offense as a state that has enough frame advantage to define the next neutral interaction, but not enough to true combo. Defense is really limited to burst or panic options, being able to tell how many frames your working with seems like an important thing to figure out. It seems important to define moves by speed. Combo break (frame 1-2) options Shine **** Shield *** Spotdodge ** I only got a bit of time (3-6 7?) Roll Dolphin slash Counter Rising Aerials A lot of d-smashes Jab Uptilt Dash attack Grab Theres actually a lot of these lol... It seems like as the offense you want a move that out ranges the burst option and hits where the opponent is currently standing and is safe on shield Range**** Endlag**** I think waiting out the burst option is a recipie for disaster because if you give your opponent time they can pick an option that will reach you. It does look cool tho
Please don't feel like you have to come up with new ideas every video. Just loading up with 0 expectations and just saying what comes to mind would be something I would still watch.
Love these vids-- listen to them during slow mornings or practice sessions.
Thanks for making these videos, they give me life 🔥
this is something i subconsciously knew while playing and used to attribute it to the other player just being better (which is true) but i would also put myself in the defender position alot for free yet still be frustrated when it felt like i had to defend so often
I agree with the ‘defender’ idea a lot! I was rewatching summit 14 Ralph v leffen and taking notes on what neutral looks like for fox against a fast grounded character and comparing it to KJH analysis last week in vod review where they realized the best option was actually to run through ossify instead of wavedash back because their option tree had been sheared and realized something like:
My first move is what my game plan should be based on. It’s great to know what I’m going to do after the first hit but to win neutral by definition you need a hit first/opening. Movement options also count as moves. Wavedash back or shining inappropriately have just as much frame lag issues as a bad jab or dtilt or whatever. From this point I can structure a neutral game plan around like:
What are my fast options? How do I hit, and if I do -> what do I connect with next? What are my opponents characters fastest options? Am I executing my tech, and is my movement consistent enough to be creative? Etc..
Idk if it would help other people cause everybody plays different but this mentality helped me unlearn running in every single interaction because my character moves faster + helped me deeper understand like how to execute pressure I guess cause power shield is just another strong and fast move and attacking/defending shield has the same checklist as neutral of like identifying the fastest options
Big fan of the thumbnail
Around 10:00 KJH is talking about labbing for alternative win conditions like switching positions or saving some percent and resetting instead of always trying to get the counter hit and I think that’s a great idea! Falco is not really a reversal character, right? I mean if he could, every shine he hit would be free and unchallenged. Pressure on shield, punishing end lag.
I think whenever KJH was talking about edgeguarding and avoiding getting reversal’s’ that should be more universal in someone’s game plan. Like “don’t get hit” can and should mean play to your characters strengths. I like playing a lot of characters even basically because they all teach me different things. Speed with fox, aerial timing and drift with falcon, space control with marth, etc etc
15:00 this is probably what was meant, but do you think there’s more or less true neutral based on the match up and even the e stage?
Something maybe about the better player can be expected to be more likely to approach faster, being less timid about neutral in matchups mid level players may fluff longer like falco dittos where there can be a lot more empty lasers, for example, then you’d see from pro falco’s
Walker Ruth Martinez Timothy Rodriguez Mary
Pre-watch comment:
I don't think its helpful to think about offense and defense in melee. My way if thinking about the game is through situations. And in those situations you want to evaluate clearly and without any pattern besides the pattern of the match. I worry that thinking about offense and defense will cause me to act as an offensive player in offensive situations and vice-versa. This would be fine in a one player game, but because my opponent can recognize I am playing some style, they can then play appropriately to counter that way of thinking.
Tldr Playing when thinking in terms of offense and defense keeps you from playing tapped in
Post-watch comment...
Currently watching vid
Notes : (not complete thoughts)
Defense defined as frame disadvantage
Defenders trade frame advantage for information
Defenders goal is to make themselves hard to hit
Maybe it would be best to define offense as a state that has enough frame advantage to define the next neutral interaction, but not enough to true combo.
Defense is really limited to burst or panic options, being able to tell how many frames your working with seems like an important thing to figure out.
It seems important to define moves by speed.
Combo break (frame 1-2) options
Shine ****
Shield ***
Spotdodge **
I only got a bit of time (3-6 7?)
Roll
Dolphin slash
Counter
Rising Aerials
A lot of d-smashes
Jab
Uptilt
Dash attack
Grab
Theres actually a lot of these lol...
It seems like as the offense you want a move that out ranges the burst option and hits where the opponent is currently standing and is safe on shield
Range****
Endlag****
I think waiting out the burst option is a recipie for disaster because if you give your opponent time they can pick an option that will reach you. It does look cool tho