What Patch 1.07 Actually Changed - Elden Ring
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- In this video, I explain the actual numbers and mechanics behind the new pvp-exclusive changes from Elden Ring's Patch 1.07 update regarding attack power and poise damage, and go into the reasoning and likely references FromSoftware used to develop these reworks. I also go over and explain the impact of all of the non-pvp exclusive poise changes, and how they undoubtedly were impacted by community feedback.
PATREON
/ amirahsouls
CREDITS, REFERENCES, AND SOURCES
~Referenced Elden Ring PvP Feedback Articles~
Article on Poise: eldenringpvp.net/balance-sugg...
Article on Guarding: eldenringpvp.net/balance-sugg...
~Modding Tools & Resources Used~
ER Poise Calculator(Quick 1.07 fix by me) by AE and toddforklift. The official update will replace this link once it is published by their authors: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
ER Attack Data Spreadsheets by Cryptid Tracker: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Breakdown of issues with ER Damage Calculations by StochasticGD: / 1564358658
DSMapStudio, which I used to read param data in this video can be found on the ?ServerName? Community modding server. Be sure to respect their rules, members and be sure to make good use of the discord search function.
/ discord
Patch 1.07.1 Patch Notes: en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ri...
~Special Thanks~
Gabri, Praseetha, Halvard and others who helped with the writing and production of the feedback articles mentioned in this video.
Kaj, Emilia, Floozutter for help with a lot of the initial discovery post-patch.
StochasticGD, for sharing his findings and resources for breaking down the problems with damage calculations.
Steelovsky for the voice-over of the endure correction while I was too sick to voice it myself.
~Songs used~
pastebin.com/rzD5sLtr
LINKS
Twitter - / amirahthethe
My Discord - / discord
Twitch - / amirahthethe
Elden Ring PvP Discord - / discord
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 The first in a series…
0:51 What the new scaling system ACTUALLY is…
1:30 How and where they used PvP Exclusive Scaling
1:56 Melee & Spells PvP Scaling
2:53 Ashes of War PvP Scaling
5:06 Did they fix dragon spells?
6:36 This is just the beginning of this feature…
7:12 Just how bad was poise pre-patch?
10:30 How to understand the PvP-only poise adjustments…
12:29 The numbers on two-handing
13:08 How exactly did they increase the poise damage of hammers and Colossals?
14:50 Did they finally fix hyperarmor?
16:59 Rework of Weight vs. Poise on Armor sets
18:28 What’s next? 
Игры
CORRECTION: Despite thinking I verified this, turns out skill-enabled attacks are effected by the universal melee/spell modifier. Commenter Skullivon made a good point on those types of attacks regarding the "With some exceptions" part of the Ash of War point in the PvP Exclusive Balance Section, which prompted me to review things. I talked with Cryptid Tracker, the creator of the attack data spreadsheet, did some of my own testing, and yes as it turns out those attacks are indeed considered basic attacks and not skill attacks. Also if you were curious, yes Darkmoon Greatsword's buffed attacks are not considered skill attacks, however it's projectiles do not have increased poise damage as they are considered ranged attacks.
*affected
Great Video! Maybe you can cooperate with RUclipsr Chrightt on this. He also has great in-depth guides.
@@1IGG chrightt's good at running numbers, is v. helpful and thorough in that regard, but he doesn't have a good overview of how pvp actually plays, the utility of certain movesets etc.
thank you
When I first heard Ziostorm talking about a pvp feedback website, I thought "no way is this going to help; this is a long shot", so I am extremely happy that it actually succeeded in being a channel of communication between the pvp community and From Software! Hopefully it and things like it continue to be effective means of communication going forward
05:55 steel jumpscare, I‘m dying.
12:49 what on earth is this invasion in the background? I love it.
I was fighting the host for a moment until this co-invader showed up out of no where and started harassing the host with endless bubbles, so I followed him and did the same. Basically he either had to endlessly focus on dodging the bubbles, or suffer a bubble hit or two everytime he tried to attack us.
I just hope they add 6 playerlimit in the dlc update soon
1.07 is definitely a turning point. But balance alone isn't going to "save" PvP. Invasions slowed down (and got very toxic) far too quickly for a game like ER, people are not engaging naturally with multiplayer and if they don't co-op, we don't invade. We need incentives to get people into multiplayer, covenants, rewards, better interactivity (as with the Seamless mod), reasons to keep playing. The game feels dead af to me, most of the time, and invading only TT ganks is getting old already.
Well said. When i got to invading people ( day 3 of release ), people in Liurnia were already doing gank squad stuff, which made me quit doing invasions a few days later even though i specifically pre ordered the game because i wanted to be part of the PvP where everyone is still figuring out the game and does janky stuff. It really doesnt help that when you are cooping you have all these hosts with barely any vigor so you just not wanna help people either
@@AngRyGohan InfernoPlus was the first to point out the main problem with invasions, other than balance but just as bad. Invasions are tied to co-op, which in theory should be fine but most people only summon outside of fog walls for help against bosses, or at the entrance of certain dungeons. Nobody goes around the overworld leaving or picking up random signs, because the system doesn't encourage "organic" co-op in any way, and this in an open world that would've benefited like no other from better accessibility in this regard. The result at this point is that 70% of invasions are just against password groups with OL phantoms or straight up ganks (Wex Dust has been a blessing, admittedly, but it's not enough). It's not sustainable, it's tedious, it's not what invasions should be, imo.
@@danielmontilla1197 I think the problem is a bit more than that. The people we want to invade are people who are just going through the game with a PvE mindset, but no matter how you slice it the best time for that was at within a month of the release. So no matter what From does ( outside of the DLC when the PvP scene will see a surge ) from a balance perspective its too late because most people are not playing anymore.
Now i would argue that ER's replayability is just as bad for us Invaders, because the game is too long, Ng+ being boring so its not a terrible suprise we cant find normal invasions often enough now ( not to mention afk farming wasnt a thing in other titles either )
I used to invade, duel, and coop consistently through all the souls games year round after they came out. This one I've barely bothered with it at all. The pvp just isn't fun, and the coop is completely worthless after early to mid game, because hosts can never stay alive. Late and end game bosses just destroy them. Multiplayer has been a massive let down for me personally.
Pretty much it. It would be great if attention is brought to From software about this. Consistent organic invasions would bring me back to invading. I'm waiting to see if they mention anything about this when they announce the DLC.
There's so much to unpack here but I was really surprised by the changes to Colossal weapons. When the patch notes said "some", I was sure it was going to bring some of the weapons with lower base poise damage closer to the level of the rest. Instead, the gap was widened! That genuinely surprised me.
This patch sets very good precedent for future patches. People always thought the game's pvp was hopeless but I always disagreed
I thought the pvp was hopeless (at least for personal enjoyment) UNLESS they did this exact thing haha.
Don't get me wrong there's a long way to go (bleed, powerstanced great spears, the dreaded crouch poke) but I feel like with fromsoft's ear and the efforts made as a community we can get elden ring pvp to a very good place
@@Data-AnalystSera In a technical sense yes, PvP can be good or at least better than in the previous games. But at some point we gotta start talking about multiplayer accessibility, what's the point of having a balanced game if people aren't engaging with mp? If hosts don't co-op, we don't invade, and if we invade, it would be nice to have a bit of extra incentives, like a reasonable player cap or covenants with areas. Who knows, maybe DLC will bring better co-op mechanics (as the Seamless) and with it more invadable players.
@@danielmontilla1197 yeah I've been doing a taunters tongue run of the game and it's shown me that even regular invasions need improvements
Being invaded by some guy who just wants to hide invisible from you for eternity, forcing you to kill yourself if you want to enter a cave or something, sure is fun
@@Data-AnalystSera Yeah, I'm not gonna blame people for saying it was hopeless.
It took them 8 freaking months to make this patch. We needed this a month or 3 after launch at minimum.
A good patch. But holy shit was it way too slow for seemingly simple changes all the players had been asking for the whole time.
Yet again, glad they are finally listening, but taking nearly a year to act on what the players were pleading for is painfully slow.
This is so well edited and informative. Thank you for your work Amir!
This will probably get no traction as an idea, but bullgoats talisman imo should work inversely, as in the lower your poise, the bigger buff it gives you, the higher it is before application, the less it gives
That is something I'd like as a possible consideration for making heavier armor sets less optimal and require more investment, however it would require an additional rework to make sure poise effectively caps out at 100 like it does now.
Can't wain for the video about armor defense! Thanks Amir, very well put together video.
Chrigt made a video that explains stats well.
another extremely common amir W
i love this video this is exactly what I've been looking for and im super excited for the upcoming poise one!! thanks for putting out such high quality data focused videos :)
I really love and appreciate the use of Mario music in this video, specifically Mario Galaxy Good Egg Planet. I thank you so heartedly.
God i hope the next vids come soon, im stoked for em
Finally new vid , was waiting for it . Thx for all the information man
Thanks again amir, not only do you come with the most important game info but you presentation is always very good. My favorite is still that opening scene for the fastest attack in ds3 video, im sure that took a lot of time.
Putting aside certain balance issues that still need some tweaking (poise damage for certain weapons mostly), this is an extremely impressive showing from Bandai/Fromsoft's end. The quick endurance change in particular is just a godsend! I know of several competitive communities who would kill to have a balance patch like this, nice to see our little pvp circle get some love. Appreciate the video, keeping my eye out for more on this channel!
As for changes, here's a small list I'd love to see:
- Two Handed Rapier poise damage nerf: duh
- Carian Slicer nerf: nearly as oppressive as rapiers if not moreso. Ridiculous damage for no commitment.
- Equip Load shifted from END to STR: This is a change I've wanted since day 1. It doesn't have to be a full shift, but maybe 30/70 in STR's favor? I just like the power fantasy of heavy weapon users running around in heavy armor personally, and I think a Bullgoat with a little rapier is silly looking. Plus, even with the changes STR is arguably the worst of the damage stats.
- Whatever connection issues are left: again, duh
I'm sure I could think of more with time, but a lot of my hopes will probably be addressed with DLC. Fingers crossed for TGA 2022!
While I'm delighted in the direction that Elden Ring pvp is moving towards, there are still problems. Thank you, and everyone involved, for making this possible.
Amir is alive!
16:43 had been trying out godfrey axe since 1.07, the fact that you have lower hyper armor (relatively speaking) on colossals now is kinda sad, feels like an oversight on from's part.
Did they fix the issue of flinch animations causing attacks to miss? If not I hope they do soon. Also hoping they fix the manual attack aiming option.
Oh no, aim punch is still very much there, I still see it happen all the time.
No, this is still very much an issue. In fact there are tons of videos right now of people mentioning how aim punch is a major downside for specific elements like warcry.
Awesome to see they are listening! Cheers ✌️
Great vid as always Amir! Interested to see where FromSoft takes things next with PVP
Keep up the good work!
Thanks as always Amir.
Am I the only one who still finds it really frustrating that summoned duelists don't get their rune arc effect
Thanks for the vid man lots of great info
I think the "with some exceptions" line is referring to Warcry-type R2s and bow skills, which are unchanged according to the spreadsheet. Warcry and Barbaric Roar were already quite strong on some weapons, I'm not sure why they got special treatment.
Love you Amir, thanks for not only being the souls scientist, but now also a voice for change to the developers on our behalf. Much appreciated
I feel hyperarmor still needs some massive buffs, you need 120 poise to hyper armor trade, when using a colossal sword vs Greatsword 2h R1, that's nuts, that's just a single light attack if you got hit by some fan daggers earlier you wont even trade. IMO colossal swords should almost always out trade a greatsword even with low to medium levels of poise. Full bullgoat should not be the only usable armor for Colossal users.
YOURE FINALLY BACK IM HYPE
Great video :)
I appreciate you using SMG music
Watching this and getting a sense of exactly how much work and reflection the From team did to implement 1.07 I am very grateful and feel a lot more positive about the studios competence in balancing and the future health of the game. It's really nice to know they're actually listening and thinking about what they're doing
Thank you amir
It’s overall a very good update. This game isn’t strictly a PvP game, but if they focus more on making PvP better then more people are going to play it. I think it’s a really good thing for increasing the longevity of the game. There should be an in-game option to see the patch notes or changes though, because a lot of people don’t know the effort being made to make PvP better.
Amazing explanation
Amazing video
Didn't play since May, but now I think it's time to return.
Very nice.
YAAAAAS! NEW AMIR VIDYA! LESS GOOOOOOO
!MEPERDONAS
Interesting stuff. Here's hoping you do a video with Illusory Wall.
It is indeed a HUGE step in the right direction, but some things were just simply given too much of a poise dmg boost. Hopefully they do see which things those were, and that they also get pointed out enough, for From to adjust them back down a small notch. I’d honestly rather not get side clipped by a stray 1H CS atk by some laggard and then get combo’d to death immediately after because of the insta-stagger if I’m on a character below 68 poise (w | w/o BG talisman), just as an example.
it does feel kind of fucked that a two handed rapier is just kind of better than the entire heavy thrusting sword class
The legend finally speaks!!!
There are still many issues with how the poise works. I have a STR build with Colossal Swords and Colossal Weapons and wear heavy armor for a total of 85 Poise. Nevertheless, I still get stunned by a 2H light rapier even if I'm swinging my weapon... Honestly, I love Elden Ring PVP, I think it's full of potentially fun builds to use, but, as far as I can see, most of the players use Rapiers or Heavy Thrusting Sword after the last patch, nothing else.
i wish amir would make a vid like this explaining why being me sucks
Ngl i would love to have those wings for invasions ngl
Thanks for all the info! At the end you said they fixed input drops.
I still get pretty consistent input drops on wave dashes in 1.07.1. Ending up staying crouched for no reason. It’s random, but consistent in a way of definitely occurring at some point when I try long enough. Basically running and crouch/uncrouching all the time, anecdotally it would happen at least once in about every 10 cycles.
What‘s your experience with that guys?
I definitely have been noticing this with Carian Slicer wave dash recently, it may just be that you need to give a frame for the crouch to happen before you can queue up an attack from it. That said, it is strange that this never happens with guarding into an attack, its not like you have to delay there.
@@Amir0 I thought so too at first. „Maybe I’m just messing up inputs myself“. But I did extensive testing afterwards, which mitigated human errors altogether and it still occurred regardless. Oftentimes when it occurs it not only blocks crouch inputs afterwards (btw mashing the button doesn’t help either). It blocks any action input. You can circumvent it when 2handing by canceling crouch with blocking/attacking. But when 1handing it’s still unaddressed and pretty annoying.
Hopefully it’s not too much to ask for, but maybe you could cover that in a video or somehow make this more visible to the devs, since a lot of the stuff you pointed out earlier got adressed. Thanks in advance!
very poggers
THANK FUCKING GOD SOMEONE did this
thanks for all that work. Who is the player at the beginning ?
me
Damn having my PC fucked really is making me miss elden ring specially now that it's getting so much better
Glad to have you back on elden ring. Steelovsky is good but too obnoxious when it comes to informative PVP videos.
Thanks for the explanation! Does anyone know how the swap (from weapon slot to last ring) happened at 2:15? I saw it from another video too so just being curious
fr how he do dat?
That was a mouse and keyboard swap, the mouse is not visible in this recording so it looks weird.
@@Amir0 Oh makes sense thanks for replying!
Do you have any plans to update the ER PvP website? A lot of the information seems pretty out of date on there.
Yes, and I have several people I am working with on it, it's just a lot of work so you'll have to forgive us for taking our time
one of the things worth looking into is the affect on weapons like marais sword or specifically the art, eochaids dancing blade as well as other arts that have quick multihit thingies the patchc has had, they seem a lot worse now if downright useless in some cases. I think those ashes have been overlooked in terms of this update and was an unintentional nerf, which you hint at with the colossals
I've had someone run straight at me through eochid's and slapped me without getting stunned
@@incius8341 for real dude, Marais is my favourite weapon but it's basically useless now. You have the dmg nerf which is fine and all but it's gone from like 1.3k on my build to 400dmg if I get it off because people just escape. Apparently it's the same with spinning weapon magic ash and the maliketh sword art.
Marais does 22 poise dmg per tick (aside from the first which is heavier) and I assume that's unchanged.
@@corruptedmilk2481 must be those dirty str users huh?
Wait the patch nerfed the hyper armor granted by great hammers, colossal swords and colossal weapons?
I wonder what's your stance on guard counter attacks.
As I see them now, they are way too slow to be useful in PvP AND also have very punishable recovery.
I think they should be fast enough to punish (at least some) heavy attacks and weapon skills and also don't be a guaranteed backstab if you miss.
Hammer says hi.
@@1IGG Are they good on GCs? Never used a hammer in the game xD
@@Fedorchik1536 they have less bad guard counters than many other options, but considering their own massive list of weaknesses (mainly their range, here), that isn't much of a relief.
Guard counters are amazing in duels. You’ll never land a second one but they are pretty good against collosal aggression and any cr1 spammers as a surprise. IMO they would be busted if their speed/recovery was buffed.
Some need an animation changes like hammers. And collosal hammers/swords need hyper armor (hyper armor doesn’t seem to work on guard counters)
Avatar staff, noble slender/Miquella knight sword and golden halberd are my favorite guard counter weapons in pvp.
2 handed heavy epee has scored me 1100+ guard counter trades before 1.7 stability nerfs
For 1-handed guard counters, I think they should be just fast enough to threat a unfavorable trade on the attackers end in certain interactions with mid-priority. So if you block a running r1/r2, an r2, and some slower r1s you should have that as an mindgame option. It should also have enough reach/range to catch a point blank player who panic rolls back on reaction to the guard counter, as currently it doesn't on most and lets ppl get away for carelessly panicing when they hear the guard counter sound. If the blocking player has enough poise, smaller weapon guard counters should also have enough speed to punish a second light attack of another light weapon spamming in. The problem is a lot of this is latency dependent, so it will be inherently less effective on higher latency unless you add hyperarmor, which gets a bit iffy. I'll have to think about it more but the idea is it should have a place.
Maybe I'm taking this out of context, but does base defense being less effective mean split damage (e.g a flame art or sacred infusion on a str/fai build instead of heavy)
Depends.
For example I have a character with 99 strength.
With two giant crushers with heavy scaling I deal 2000 dmg with a jump attack.
I then tried infusing them with fire (because fire scales with strength) and even though it’s split damage at 99 strength I dealt 1900 on the jump attack.
I then added the flame talisman to boost fire dmg but take more dmg universal.
It only brought up dmg to 2000 dmg.
So it is a split at 2000. Which is worse than two heavies infused. Because split dmg is rarely ever better unless the opponent has little to no armor.
I tested several times with banished knights at dragons temple.
The prodigal son is back
We still need solo invasions and 6 player lock
Great vid trying to think of the guy who had a smaller channel but was big in the ds3 community back in the day did a lot for the game he's not real try hard I can't remember
I remember it was Amish ai t seen him in years
Hollow knight music ftw
There was so much doubt about the pvp situation in this game from the beginning. I've always thought that there was an excellent foundation, and now From is actually following through on refining it. It can only get better from here fellow hollows.
i actually do not have elden ring, but for some reason i found myself watching the entire video for the maths...
.. that I also do not understand.
So what youre saying is that Frozen Needle was stealth nerfed by not being buffed with new poise damage multiplier?
Yes thats precisely the thing i singled out of this info packed video hahhahahaa and im mad about it!
Jokes aside, great fckng video man! Bravo...
❤
Is the 2minute disconnect still an issue? I like elden ring, but that bug really has killed any desire to come back to the game since March
Yes, it has been silently patched out!
@@Amir0 As in it's no longer an issue??? :D!
The big question is: will i get to actually do pvp or will it still be baiting eachother into 1 hit moves?
I'm really confused over how these poise changes may affect pve if at all.
Is "poise damage" just a pvp term or does it also apply for pve stance damage ? like is it easier to stance break a pve enemy with a hammer now or what ?
Yes, stance and poise are the same thing, and until this patch all poise damage vs pve and pvp was the same. The poise changes that I stated were not in the PvP Exclusive changes also effect your poise damage in pvp. For example, two-handed weapons and great hammers. It is worth noting though that poise on PvE enemies acts as a "health bar" before they get "stance broken" and are vulnerable to a critical attack, while depending on the enemy and attack they can be still receive regular hitstun. For players, there is no stance breaking but poise regulates if they take hitstun from an attack or not.
trust torch has backswing, torch attack best WA
Hmmm actually 🤓
LMAOO
based sto cameo
Poise
sooo, Rapiers poise damage was nerfed? or those weapons are still good at everything, EVERYTHING.
Excellent coverage, very much appreciate you keep doing these! Although I wish they did something about the connection errors on pc already. A few days ago when I was playing with a friend we encountered one that seemed a bit different from the 2min timer, and I was wondering what exactly was happening.
We were playing, got invaded, and a few seconds after I get dropped. They're alone with the invader, try to resummon me, when they resummon I come back in and as soon as I appear I'm immediately dropped out due to a connection error. They die, try to summon me again, once more immediately booted out due to connection error
I’ve heard Dashing Saint talk about this before, it’s an issue where the game can’t handle the connection between two players so it kicks one of them
@@Felicificity That's weird cuz I was playing with them for 2 hours before, then played ds2 with them just fine when I got fed up with the error. So what happened really? I swear the elden ring multiplayer still has a long way to go
woohoo
0:22 lmao whata noobtube 🤣
it's spelled Jiza's Wheel not Ghiza's Wheel >:(
At 30 seconds into the video you do a hard swap with your right most talisman, how do I replicate that? I can't think of a way to get to that slot without 4 additional presses.
😂lost found his Sanity, Jeenine conquered another jungle 🤣 damn who’s that sultry exotic guest voice 😏
Can anyone tell me how to swap talisman like how he did it around 0:32?
@@adsasfasfasfsddddddd Thank you for explaining! In fact we are interested in how he changed from the first weapon bar into the very right talisman bar in one step. Is that possible to do with a controller?
No, I am on mouse and keyboard. However, there are some techniques and tricks with controller to make several weapons and talismans immediately available from a certain wep/talisman. Jeenine has an amazing video on this. ruclips.net/video/e3cgyzm_PL4/видео.html
@@Amir0 thank you so much!
@@Amir0 Thank you Amir!
Amir, you are as deep in this community as it gets and yet u seem to have no (or minor) brain damage. I dont get 💀
😭 p͓̽r͓̽o͓̽m͓̽o͓̽s͓̽m͓̽
my bloodboon ritual literaly only does 100 damage to players, and i have 90 arcane and 70 strengh. this game is busted, broken, and unplayable. for me. specifically.
FIIIIRRRSSSTTTTT hahaha
Since when?
A first that's actually first... Rare
I didn't understand shit. I don't really PvP, but if it means I have to do some heavy math calculator lifting, then I'm out for good. Where's the fun in that?
These are just details to understand better the game. Also the most important things on the patch was simple enough to be resumed in a sentence that doesn't involve numbers.
Game still sucks
Hey, dont use banished helmet hood and scaled armor, dat bling is mine >:(
Is this real ?🥹