How FromSoft Accidentally Implemented Aim Punch - Elden Ring
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- Ever wonder why your colossal sword swing just seem to barely miss your enemy? Today we look into what's really going on, it turns out it's not exactly Elden Ring hitboxes being realistic, actually far from it.
PATREON
/ amirahsouls
CREDITS & SOURCES
Thanks to Floozutter for a couple of the demonstration clips.
Thanks to @PerfectlyLost for the appearance: / @perfectlylost
Thanks to The12thAvenger for the help on DS3 havok behavior modding.
CS:GO aim demonstration from a video by 3kliksphilip: • CS:GO - Tagging and Ai...
DS2 Hyperarmor Example from a video by Moose Torrent: • Dark Souls 2 PVP - Sme...
DS2 no-flinching example from a video by wifitoaster:
• Dark Souls II: Basic P...
DS2 moving flinching example from a video by illusory wall: • Dark Souls Dissected #...
Stamp Uppercut flinching example from some ERPVP reddit post(Can't find the original author)
LINKS
Twitter - / amirahthethe
My Discord - / discord
Twitch - / amirahthethe
Elden Ring PvP Discord - / discord
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Wait, that's why I'm missing attacks?
1:13 What is Aim Punch?
1:57 This completely conflicts with their design pattern...
3:33 How it reinforces the current limited meta
6:05 Did other games do it better? Can it be fixed?
7:48 Guess what game did it best...
SONGS USED
pastebin.com/pWu3wRYX
#ELDENRING 
Игры
![Skilla Baby - Misfits (Feat. Polo G) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IjsylSnNMyw/mqdefault.jpg)
Patch 1.10 still hasn’t fixed aim punch. For some reason, they simply made it so the flinching cannot happen during hyperarmor windows. But they forgot I guess that tons of stuff in their game still are passively tankable Eg. Daggers or subsequent attacks.
They should of imo just stopped all flinching animations on attack or casting windows instead of just hyperarmor.
After the ultra greatsword wiffed that hard, I literally don’t blame him for returning home.
i feel really sorry for him lmao
I knew I wasn't crazy
Crazy?
I was crazy once; They locked me in a room; a rubber room; a rubber room with rats; and rats make me crazy
@@bobertastic6541 Crazy?
I was crazy once. The locked me in a room. A rubber room. A rubber room with rats and rats make me crazy.
That was especially a problem with malenia every third hit randomly missed her even if she's in range of my weapon which understandably made me really upset
I definitely recall this happening in PvE as well, especially with human width enemies like Malenia
the amount of times only 1 of my hammers hit malenia while im power stancing 2 collosal weapons is annoying like bro im swinging 2 20 ton hammers at u how tf r u changing their position but in the end i was the giga chad and beat her with pure strength only
that actually might be malenia breaking the games mechanics. Swagapagos Turtle has some great videos showing she doesnt play by the games rules and has a unique mechanic that allows her to jump or block out of hitstun whenever she wants.
@@zthoop64
I honestly don't think any of the problems he presented in that video are actually problem and he didn't highlight the true flaws in her design like waterfowl over aggression and inconsistent openings in phase 2 not dying to riposts etc... so what if she has infinite hyperarmor who would risk trading attacks with malenia anyway? Also people say she gets hyperarmor randomly which is not true she only has it on like 6 moves
@@GILGAMESH069 I agree Waterfowl dance has many problems but the hyper armor becomes a bigger problem for most people. while the hyper armor may not be inconsistent, I personally think it feels so for most people because she can start one of her attacks at nearly any time and the hyper armor activates on the first frame of the animation, so she can power through at any time. I dont think its people trying to trade with her but attempting to use an opening to get a hit in but she can combo nearly every attack she has into another so there really isnt a "safe" moment to attack her sense ending one attack can cause her to go into another at any moment. or atleast for me these are the bigger problems.
This can also happen on bosses. I made Godfrey miss an attack that should have hit me by making him do a jitter.
if u happened to record that would love to see it
Are you sure it was because of the stun?
Godfrey has a couple attacks that usually miss as you’re swinging certain weapons or doing any attack that alters your hitbox (for example when jumping attacks lower your body, his axe would just go above you)
@@Amir0 I did it consistently each time the battle started. Using Stone of Gurranq as he runs up to you, he would often do the axe slam and as long as you just kept chucking the stones at him, you'd cause him to miss.
I like this on bosses, though its janky, it has created quite a bit of clutch moments on my different play throughs.
@@Amir0 I think I did record it. Is it too late to send it?
Edit: Sorry I did record it but then I deleted it since I figured I'd never do anything with the clip. I remember the move that he missed with though. It's his vertical slam follow up to end his combo, where his axe is in front of him and drags it behind him to do an overhead slam.
when we find out the detailed reasons behind these sorts of quirks, i get a little sad that they probably won't be fixed. Still good info to have regardless - thanks for making this.
ds2 chads keep winning
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
pls make ER more like DS2 with the DLC and patches, give more viability to more things
Another day, another W.
Ds2 may take a lot of Ls, but when it gets W, it's really huge one
YES
Ah I just thought the UG standing r1’s were so bad that they couldn’t even hit things right in front of you
I mean that happens all the time with short enemies or slopes.
‘Just level up adaptability’
I notice and very much appreciate the increased production quality of your videos, imo you are a really good content creator and important part of the souls community!
Thanks a bunch
Man... seeing how long the hitbox on thrusting attacks can last makes me more sad than the actual topic of the video.
Edit: no wait, the whip clip in ds3 broke me even worse.
This issue will never happen in Ds3 since whips are not hyperarmour weapons and that there is no passive poise.
There is basically no trade scenario where you would get a flinch and miss an attack with a whip since you would get staggered all together before you can even flinch.
Maybe if a knife is thrown at you, and I'm not even sure of that.
@@godefroiddebouillon7769 Also that the only good whip in Ds3 is Witch's Locks. All that's really busted about whips in that game is that you can attack through walls with them, because they have zero wall bounce (and that makes sense) which has the unintended consequence of letting you slap other people through pillars.
Seriously though I thought it was just the goofy netcode that made them so annoying... Double trouble here
ds3 buck breaking
DS2 comes out on top once again, so many good ideas left behind.
But Ds2 did it at the cost of looking floaty and weightless.
DS2 was the equivalent of having spilt too much salt into your cake mix, so you just pour in more sugar to fix it.
The sugar by itself would make the cake sweeter, but with the salt it just makes you need to vomit even more...
I do like that in Elden Ring, I don’t have to sigh before walking into a new room, because I just know there’s going to be yet *another* ambush.
@@okonkwojones that's only scholar of the first sin edition
@@CerealKiller no, scholar was night and day different from vanilla. Enemy placements didn't make sense in scholar, and there were a lot more ganks
Wow, Miyazaki is on another level! I haven't seen innovation like this since Sakurai adding tripping in Brawl!
This is Literally tripping in brawl lol
he always been on another level when it comes to punishing the player in arbitrary ways
Miyazaki is a bag of pure shit, the rottness mind in game industry.
Tripping in Brawl was at least extremely rare and not likely to happen during practical play as long as you weren't dodge/dash spamming, which it was designed to punish. This aimpunch on the other hand seems to be a very common issue.
That doesn't even make sense realistically, if you're swinging something too big to be called a heap of raw iron, you wouldn't even be able to flinch, you'd just be pulled with the weapon. An good and simple fix would just be to disable flinches during a heavy weapons attack, if not all melee attacks in general.
yeah enough poise should negate flinching and a heavy weapon should also negate flinching
@@dyppityjoop5912 I think the only potential issue there is that this would likely apply to enemies too (makes sense), and make some things much harder than they should be for the point in the game (Kaiden Sellswords early on). Of course, adjusting poise values in general could fix this (lowering the highest values, increasing most others, and reducing the poise damage of most enemies across the board), and that should be done, but it's probably a lot of work.
@@dyppityjoop5912 I also think leveling strength should have innate poise added to your character. Makes sense too. If my dude has 60 strength, he should have passive poise of 30 without armor. This would make getting high poise better for strength users, negate endurance issues and equipped for heavy users, because you can go with the lighter armors since you have innate poise. I think this could be a beneficial use of leveling strength!
I’ve had this issue with animation blending in Unity but it’s not incredibly hard to fix with the suggestion you mentioned. ER definitely released unfinished in a lot of ways so I wonder if this will get a fix. Great video, always love how you show the hitbox wireframes.
Wait it's in Unity? I never actually found out wtf does fromsoftware use for these games so I thought it was their own engine
@@Archimedes.5000 it is their own engine. I’m talking about my own work. Animation blending is a common practice in many engines tho
@@TheKevDev ah ok, I saw that HAVOK physics is for Unity and UE so I thought it was related
Haha that cameo from Lost. And he didn't even threaten to shank people. Great video Amit.
Aimpunch was a definite issue in Bloodborne as well, although it was only really noticeable on certain attacks like the transformed beast cutter vertical heavy attacks
It happened in DS3 too. If you hit Old Demon King while he's breathing fire his head jiggles about and it can dump the flame on your head :x
Thank you for making a video about this. I've lost many duels thanks to this bug
Honestly it drove me crazy how many attacks just, missed.
melee rip
Oh my god and here I thought I was going absolutely insane during PvP/PvE with certain weapons. Running attacking an enemy or player and it just missing or doing especially r1s with an ultra and them flying over the head of the enemy was so genuinely infuriating I assumed it was just “precise hitbox,” implemented to further infuriate players similar to the delay roll which seem strangely similar to rage game mechanics meant to upset the player.
Of course Ds2 got it right lmao.
My boy DS2 still has the most balance pvp in souls games yet ^^
@@raphicoco I agree, but it is still terrible with massive problems, like all souls games pvp. It also has very poor pve making for a overall bad game.
@@Anaax And here is the inevitable (you can't say anything good about DS2 on my watch) comment. Can't you guys just let any valid DS2 praise be and not immediately discredit it in bad faith? This is just poison in any discussions.
Great content as usual Amir! Thanks for sharing this information!
Thanks for this. I assumed it was a deliberate aspect meant to balance greatswords and was having a hard time finding anything definitive about it. This makes a lot of sense.
I definitely prefer the "alter non attacking bones" solution over going full DS2.
DS2, in spite of how great it is, always had the flaw of looking floaty. Part that was how they handled these jitter animations.
Granted, it'd probably look kinda weird to take a hit mid-swing and have only your other arm and head move. Might be useful to just put in a little elbow motion rotating around fixed shoulders and hands. Grab a broom with both hand out in front of you like you're holding a sword then raise your elbows if anybody is having trouble imagining what I'm trying to describe.
Just some minor indicators that you're taking a hit that is visible across the body but doesn't interfere with the actual attack.
Cool editing on this one amir
The thrust attacks are the absolute worse effects of that, it's insane how many things we took for gameplay are actually bugs. It begs the question, for how much are the bugs responsible for this joke of a pvp ?
Clearly the solution is to bump up the aim punch animation by 1000% to become the wacky inflatable arm tube man.
It’s already in the code,even- the big blue finger weapon!
That was highly educational. Thanks for the upload.
Phenomenal video dude holy shit. I'm a casual viewer, i thought your video production quality was great and the sound was on point. Hope to see the ER issues fixed so I can pvp again
some attacks have tracking issues too, but this is an... interesting mechanic to be sure
Love these videos, it's so interesting to see the things behind it also love the lost coöp🙌🏻
amazing video! thank you for being dedicated to bringing attention to the problems of elden ring. We appreciate it a lot.
Doing god's work Amir. I really hope from are taking notes, even if its unlikely anything will ultimately be done.
I REFUSE TO SETTLE DOWN
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
fantastic vid as usual, informative and easy to follow
Loll I love the lostmysanity cameo. Fun video, thanks Amir!!
Oh boy, yet ANOTHER issue. The gestures were extremely accurate.
i use colossal weapons and this happens constantly
i also main colossal weapons and these misses happen a lot more with small enemies like imps, rats and dogs
@@ygoegd2405 I'M LOOKING AT YOU, IMPS WITH THE GIANT POKEY STICKS. Especially if you get ambushed by more than 1.
@@ygoegd2405 That's because they're shorter than your swing many at times. It's like when taller enemies miss you.
I have missed attacks when I hit target face on. Like I am legit eskimo kissing them watching my attack miss.
its been 5 month since this video and that bug is still there... menacingly
I've been playing Sekiro for the past few weeks despite it being released many years ago. I have been enjoying it thoroughly because of the much better hitbox imo. The moves of most enemies are very clearly telegraphed, and even with giant foes, they don't usually launch swiping attacks with their entire body; instead the motion is largely elicited with limbs.
However, other Souls games mostly go for the opposite, which is large enemies, and entire-body moves. So it often gets confusing.
Another Amir video nice!
that explains why i felt like something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. (aside from all the other things on the list) because it happened for a fraction of a second and decided the course of the fight. i didnt know the character was spazzing out with their hands and thats why it happened.
You convinced me. Your halberd example is very compelling.
Was so happy to see Lost in this
8:32 that was basically what I was thinking, if a player poised through an attack, their weapon shouldn't be affected, only the rest of their body
I'd been hearing this and didn't know what it meant. You explain it well, thanks!
Love the videos man, so helpful to all of us❤❤❤
It's interesting to think of why this may have gotten so much more prominent in Elden Ring, and I think it might have to do with the introduction of the "Posture" system, which to my knowledge did not exist in DS3. I suspect this system, which allows dynamic blending and adjustment of animations, may have exacerbated the comparatively minor system they introduced in DS3.
Of course I have no evidence of this, but it's just the first thing that came to mind since I've been tweaking Posture Values a bit lately on some modded Scythe movesets in an attempt to get a more natural and comfortable looking 1-handed idle because as someone who has actually held a real life actual physical was-used-for-harvesting-crops scythe I can tell you 100% that the way the Elden Ring character holds their scythe 1-handed would murder your wrist in a few minutes.
send this video to fromsoft or bandai namco if you guys want them to fix this, they actually look at things like this when its sent directly to them
the ds2 solution looks a lil weird, i like the flinching effect and it adds to making attacks in modern souls games feeling more impactful. the best solution would be for the hitboxes to be unaffected by flinching somehow, whilst maintaining the graphical affect. knowing fromsoftware though, i assume this would cause numerous desync issues tho so idfk lol
God I love these videos, the meme with lost was hilarious as well
This is insane, I had just been assuming that they had made the hit boxes to small or something.
Just like your other vid on dropped button presses...
This is another thing from Elden Ring that makes me go crazy.
I have kinda had this crockpot hypothesis that a lot of the issues in elden ring are caused by this addition of a passive poise system into this engine that has never had it. I personally love the passive poise system of ds1 so this system is great as intended but now with this and the input drops I can't help but think a load of the non-boss related mechanical problems are due to this poise system maybe not having enough time in the oven.
I don't think so, think of ds3's "perseverance" WA
Everytime I hear about Elden Ring PvP it keeps getting worse and worse.
Makes me glad that I returned it due to the white screen error on launch that didn't get fixed for weeks.
Amazing content as usual
Perfect. Thank you.
2:03 Alternatively there's another (more realistic) answer: From just hates big weapons
They made katanas and other weeb weapons do the exact damage a huge chunk of steel does so that makes sense
Look at this found a new channel to subscribe to. Nice work.
Brilliant stuff, it's a shame I don't expect it'll ever be fixed 😔
wake up babe new amir upload
Yooooo the Lost cameo
That selective detection would be the best solution
Because to me the second I understood what was happening in the first clip I thought it was really cool and should stay how it is but I can see how it’s overkill for big weapons
If there was a cutoff for certain weight weapons and it only happens when you actually hit someone’s arm then that just seems like a really cool addition
But to even make any of that matter they need to fix the lag fest that is pvp
Ive played ds1 Ds3 and now elden ring starting in 2020 and I haven’t willingly done any pvp because it’s just a laggy mess but if it eventually was something good then maybe I’d try it
Great video as always. Btw are you planning on covering the “grab attacks” in Elden ring? I wonder if fromsoft improved them since DS3.
BeeFuzz!
BeeFuzz
BeeFuzz
BeeFuzz?
@@Amir0 Bee-mir
@@riptide_w RipFuzz
Glad you called out the unbalanced thrust attacks. I was just talking about this.
This was very interesting, I always thought it was due to shitty netcode.
Thanks amir
Literally happens to me with the greatsword, and too often. I hope FromSoft fixes these issues, but I admit I'm not terribly optimistic.
I noticed that this happens a lot with heavy thrusting swords
this video is so good... now we all need to account for aimpunch when looking at data 💀
I can't believe they added fps flinch to Elden Ring
I always wondered wtf was going on when I would swing zweihander at the sky for no reason
hey! I'm working on a combat overhaul mod for my friends and I, I was wondering if you ever make a fix for this, could you send me the details? I would love to implement it so we can have cleaner fights with each other!
Another solution could be to have the animation and the Hit/Hurtboxes use separate skeletons, although thats probably too big of a change for q simple patch and would have to be something for the next game
My upload net went from 10 mbps to 1 mbps today, no idea why, but now duels are impossible to play. Great video btw and nice to meet you. See you around when I hopefully fix my net t_t
Thank you for this, I legit used UGS 2 handed and hit light attack on thier face just to swipe on top of them like I was giving them a haitcut.
Maybe tying the severity of the jitter to how low your poise is could work, too
We all know how Fromsoft is really going to fix this problem...
By nerfing the poise damage of colossal of course!
Ey Amir, you mind looking into Flails? for some reason, their attacks sometimes don't seem to be functioning..... properly- particularly the heavy jump attacks and anything vertical, the head of the flail won't go where it needs to go and just.... droops.
Good info for anyone into game design
Good video missed this
Today if found how bad this affects great weapons, i did a fully charged r2 to someone and he did a jumping attack, i taked it but the hit twisted in such an irreal way and i missed it, it makes me mad specially because is not like the weapon misses, it feels more like if straight up the hitboxes dissappear because most of the time the model of the weapon cliped through the player without doing damage
noticed this way when the game was fresh, still have a vid of it
8:35 Making just a part of the body flinch is such a flex lmao
Great video m'dude
Also, what happened to the malinea analysis you planned to do? Did that video fall apart or it's still in the works?
Currently focused on the game's online issues as I think they take precedent, in the mean time I recommend this video about Malenia and other bosses ruclips.net/video/ZQlOxjCqyAI/видео.html
What programs do you use to perfectly green screen your character?
This explains the absurd increase in power stanced thrust weapons in PvP.
Man, the more I experience Elden Ring, the bigger the pile of negatives grows.
I didn't really like elden rings combat as much as the other souls games. I thought maybe I just wasn't adapting well to the new game design, but maybe my gut instinct was right.
That's natural for any game. For Pve ER hitboxes are absolutely godly. They just went ahead and achieved perfection with it lol.
I've always heard it be called flinching not aim punch I was so confused for the first chunk of the video
i wasn't around for the launch of other games in this series. was it always this bad?
This game is extra buggy
it was always a mess but ER is especially a mess bc of its sheer size and the fact nothing has been properly patched even after the game being out for so long
@@municipalorrery
you think 3 months is a long time?
@@Tulip_bip given how they haven’t even nerfed BHS yeah it’s a long time to not balance anything
@@municipalorrery
they balanced moonveil and sword of night and flame, gave a buff to colossal swords and sorceries, and a ton of other balance changes
just because they haven't done bloodhound step and rivers of blood yet doesn't mean they haven't done anything
I LOVED the Lost Cameo
Unrelated but when do you think if ever we can get more fashion mods for ER and is it even possible to go online with them fancy dresses
I couldn't even count how many times I missed with my greatsword on my guts build because if this glitch. It was infuriating
I feel the fix for big weapons would be real nice because it will make it feel like the weapons have momentum
hello, does dark souls 3 pvp still exist? I really wanted to play pvp from at least one of the 3 games, but I haven't found a match against anyone since the release of elden ring 😞
Sometimes I wish it hadn't been released
I dont know why the algorithm randomly recomended this video two days ago but it has, and now it looks like it was fixed in the last patch.
This reminds me of how Super Smash Bros introduced tripping to "balance" the skill gap.
If pvp didn't exist this would be an amazing mechanic for the pve. You can slap a big boy with a big weapon hard enough to force that giant attack coming your way slightly flinch and miss, smaller weapons do it for smaller enemies porportionally etc. However the enemies could do the same to you however you'd have the means to counteract it.
It dumb. You stack poise and use hyperarmor specifically for that to not happen. Now you'll just eat damage for free.
If it was any sensical, it would also be good for pvp.
i once missed an attack while dude is climbing ladder i hit him once but the damage did not registered.
It affects spells too. Lightning spear always misses point blank if I,'m being hit while casting.
No wonder why it looks like my ultra greatsword is swinging higher than normal sometimes.