I recently built a “Recce” for the first time, and I love the concept. It’s as close as we can get to a “do-all” rifle. -Colt upper and lower -Criterion barrel w/ headspaced bolt -Badger Ord gas block -Modlite PLH-v2 w/ Modbutton -SLR IonLite rail -MBUS Pros -Badger Ord 1.70 mount -Razor 1-6 with HS509T offset -LaRue MBT trigger -VLTOR A5 buffer system
Glad I found this channel. Running my 16” with a TA33 and offset rmr, just bought the piggyback mount to give yall’s advice a go. I followed you guys on fb and found I was like 5 days behind the remote memberships filling up for JTAC ranch. I’ll be ready to pounce on it next year though.
Love the top hat 509T . I got away from the 45 degree offset . I have 12.5 Mini Recce with Centurion HF Barrel , TR24 1-4× , 1.60 PEPR Mount , Top Hat 509T , X300U (12 o'clock) , C4 10" Quad Rail and YHM T2 Turbo K with Kurz Kit. This is my go too 556n 300 yards and in. I'm running Black Hills 77g TMK.. For my SPR I went with 12.5" Match Grade Nitride 6ARC With PLX 1-8× GRIFFIN MIL ACSS , 1.60 PEPR Mount , Top Hat 509T , Rein Micro , MI 11.5" Combat MLOK Rail , and YHM R2 Resonator K with Kurz Kit . I decided to go with 6ARC because it's an incredible cartridge . With 12.5" I'm getting 1600+ FPS and 600 Ft pounds of energy at 600 yards . Even at 800 yards its 1375 FPS with 450+ Ft pounds of energy. Realistically I built it for 600 yards and in . I'm using Black 105g BTHP , 106g TAP or 108g ELDM. I wanted 1 upper that has shorty barrel but still capable of 600+ yards . That's when I found the 6ARC . It's not a traditional SPR but it can achieve about the same results when compared to real MK12 out to 600 yards . Yet its 6" shorter and pounds lighter I also have 18" 6ARC that's gonna be more of CSASS setup paired with 3-15× EBR7C MRAD.. If I were to build do all be all Rig . It would be 13.7 or 14.5 6ARC . It can handle medium sized Game out to 300 yards , bang steel out to 900 yards and be used for CQB ( Yeah a bit much for CQB but it will work ).. Centurion MK12 MOD 1 SPR is my absolute favorite MK1W variant. I'm also a sucker for NSW 15.1" Recce Rifles. I used to be a cloner when I was younger . I've had 0 issues with any YHM Cans . Granted I dont have 10k rounds through them but I have 1k easily through each Can . What are the issues with YHM cans . I get it they are little gassy but I just BRT Tuned Gas Tubes to tame it down . I can talk guns for hours . I'm gonna love this channel . Me and my buddies do stupid shit like text each other top 5 gun and knife lists or if you could only own 3 . I love US Military small arms history .
Great job on this! IMHO a RECCE rifle has a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, a LPVO, a MRDS (offset), and possibly a bipod. A Mini-RECCE has the same specs, but a shorter barrel. An SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) is usually more tailored to mid and longer range use. It has an 18 inch barrel, a Medium Power Optic, a MRDS (offset), and a bipod.
Just subbed today. Love the "proof of concepts" you guys are attempting to tackle. Also love that you guys are in Florida-- I was born and raised there. Nice seeing "home" from afar...
It's interesting to me that you find the red dot on top the LPVO more natural than the 45° cant... I'm exactly the opposite. I find the 45° cant much more natural, idk why. To each their own I guess... if it works for you, it ain't stupid, right?
Dude that statement is so so so true, if it doesn't work for you then stick with what makes you the most effective especially when it comes to proven solutions, and it boils down to personal preference.
Here is the other advantage of having a 45 degree cant is your cheek never has to leave the stock and transition is alittle faster getting back on target with the scope.
I like 18+ for an spr. BA makes an 18" DMR profile that works well, but it's a chunky boi. My recce setup is using a now discontinued Faxon heavy straight fluted 16". Both barrels absolutely love the Hornady black 62gr (if you can find it).
Discontinued? Man I lucked out. I have that same Faxon as an 18" and it weighs 31oz vs the BA SPR profile barrel of the same length being 41oz. So 10oz weight savings with the Faxon.
Omg so glad I found this channel. Wracking my brain between lpvo and red dot. I have two rifles one has an lpvo the other has a red dot. Like both for different reasons. So put both on each rifle. Duh! Thanks for the great video. Like how you even have a red dot on your longer range spr/dmr. So all the rifles in this video are 0-500 yard guns. Love it!
My favorite factory 77gr OTM is from MAG TECH it's as equal accurate as my handloads. I use Primary Arms optics and I've built the MK12 MOD-O & MOD-H using PRI handguards and 18" 1/7 Douglas barrel's. I'm with y'all I love the MK12's!!!
@@barrelandhatchet they are getting harder to find. I'll see if I have an extra box somewhere. Last summer I had 4000 rounds of my 77gr OTM handloads stolen and 300 rounds of it was the mag tech ammo. If I can find a box I'll get with you and send it so y'all can test it out.
Like any tool, it’s about your needs and capabilities. If you can’t hit the broad side of a barn with a your recce at 150m you don’t need a long gun for 600m shots. On the other hand, if you’re living in Arizona or Kansas you’re more likely to take longer shots vs here in FL where you’re singing “wide open spaces” if you got 200-300m LOS in the wild lol
I built a beautiful & very effective 18” Wilson Combat SS fluted barrel SPR a couple of years ago. I have a 10.3. Now I’m thinking of a Sons Of Liberty 13.9
Thank God I stumbled across this channel. I loved everything about this. From the trashy service rifles, the optics configuration, etc. I have multiple rifles that look identical to these. I piggyback rds, not just micros on my spr's as well. You can see an image of a few if you click on my image, and go to my page you can see my mk14 and an FNC. I've actually been running a t2 on top of my ACOG and it's been triggering the insta bois. I've never considered running a riser with my Acogs. I have multiple A2's with Acogs, but have never even seen the KRAM. I dig this ❤️. My go to is SPR is my MODO; the MOD1 is superior, (full PRI so I don't believe it's correct) and I get so much sht for it. Us service rifle guys are a dying breed. The GuCcI and Peasant seem to be the current trend. Though it can sometimes be hard to justify $2k for an accessory that's 3x the price, at a fraction of the performance of current items. Talking to you Mk4..
Thanks so much for the support! And yes the KRAM is a lifesaver and we love trashy mil guns lol. But def go pick up a KRAM riser. The eye relief adjustment alone life changing!
I still like my skinny 16's. If im in a recon/scouting role (or hunting for that matter) I'm - probably - outside. Negligible weight increase, slightly better ballistics, and most importantly it points well. I get some of the advantages of an SPR (but none of the weight) and don't make too many compromises if I'm indoors. If you are comparing the typical "recce"/gpr and the spr, you're doing it wrong. I try to ask, instead, "how can I get the best qualities of both systems" Great video guys.
I put together my idea of a RECCE rifle for the terrain I live in. I live around forests and wide open fields so mine is a 14.5 with a 1x4 LPVO, that's it. Slim, light, can do close in woods work and enough magnification to engage across a field. It's more of a defensive weapon than offensive as I am looking to gather intel, not take on 20 guys in a firefight.
@@davidb9323 hahahaha we literally asked the same exact question, so since it's a hot topic episode 4 will be about recce or what we like to call general purpose rifles
@@barrelandhatchet I look forward to learning new things and there are a lot of RECCE rifle builds, they fill the page when I Google RECCE. I am hoping for more on avoiding detection throughout the journey and am excited for GT thermal heli video example. Also interested what you can do with the information gathered, being limited by capabilities as a small force.
@@davidb9323 we will be doing a Reece Series, where we will also have other folks from different professions to hit on specific things that deal with Reece, not just the rifles, however we will have a whole episode dedicated to different types of Reece rifle, trains of thought
I believe it’s the dirty bird anti walk pins that are compatible with Geissele. They still are allowed to rotate. Which I guess Geissele says it needs.
I’m older so it’s kinda weird to me cause the term “recce” calls for something like an SBR, a 14” to 16” barrel is a standard rifle that every grunt has and a DMR requires an 18” or 20” barrel or a larger caliber. Still, great conversation!
We will actually be talking about “recce” rifles specifically in episode 4. Which comes out this week and redefining the term to general purpose rifle. We believe somehow recce is being misconstrued, and thought processes are not being put in place when building. Recce is the mission. The gun is the tool. We have been finding out more and more what people are calling their recce rifle, is really just a rifle that would be their go to blaster in a shtf scenario
@@barrelandhatchet - I’ll be looking forward to it. This video caught my attention so I watched then looked elsewhere and got extremely confused. Had to call my son who was a recent Marine. I got a history lesson then had to chuckle. “I got a recce rifle.” AKA “standard issue” in the Marine Corps. LOL Edit - not trying to be a dick, I just didn’t understand why it was being called a recce rifle. A recce rifle in the Selous Scouts was an FAL. I just wasn’t getting it.
@@fanman8102 it’s just a new term that has been generated and usually has a certain type of look to it within the industry that is different than what standard mil uses. So we were kinda just bringing things back down to earth, finding what fits you. What are your goals and will serve you best, despite the job you plan on doing
Huge fan of the PA 4-14X44 with DMR HUD reticle, running a tube mounted red dot. I'm specifically running a SeeAll Open Sight on top of mine. Huge fan of KP-15 lowers for a build like this regardless of which barrel length or profile you go with. I'm currently running a Magpul MOE handguard, but upgrading to an ultralight MLOK soon. Running an Inforce light atm. Going to be dropping my PEQ on this build along with a Smith Vortex soon. 20" HBAR 1-8 twist with A2 flash hider atm. I run m193 primarily, but also have a couple of mags of Mock 262s (using AlcoBullets 77 grain rebated boat tails) in my go bag. They're loaded to around 2750-2780 muzzle velocity out of the 20" with a G1 BC of .512 iirc. Using BLC-2 powder ATM. The groups aren't as tight as H4895, but they're tight enough... and slightly faster. Huge fan of 20" HBARs. M16 gang. Debating on building and form 1ing a short stubby suppressor to run on this rifle. I'm thinking around 1.75" outer diameter at around 5-6" long. Gonna try my hand at slanted baffles if I go this route (think washer/spacer flat baffles, but with the spacers cut at 45° angles.)
For "Recce" or General Purpose I use a KAC SR15 (mod2) in 14.5" instead of 16". She has an Eotech with 2 dots so have the new Eotech 5x for dot #2. Haven't been able to zero the 2nd dot but I believe it's designed to stretch the little 5.56 to its limit. They say 1x per 100 meters so 5x for 500 meters is good. Have thought about LPVOs, Night Force has a killer military discount but haven't pulled the trigger on it yet (Leupold too got the MK5 cheap). Kinda waiting to put NF glass on a 6.5CM SR25 upper in the future.
Iv heard nothing but people tell me recently KAC is a massive waste of money most of these people being x mitary. They said for 2.5 grand they expected better accuracy out the box. Whats your opinion on this?
@@mattellis6040 I dont really judge anything but a chome lined bolt gun on accuracy standards. When I was in we used the M24 for accuracy. The m16/m4 did fine out to 300-400 size of a human silhouette. It will drop people easy. Im personally happy w/ KAC but money isnt an issue for me so I just stick with them and LMT. If money was Id prob look at stuff with Daniel Defense barrels, ADM rifles, home bullds with FN barrels and old school Colt 6933 uppers.
The tabor, is def a proven system, Bull pups however require a lot of dedication to train torwards that motion of ergonomics, but those who accept the favor as a soul mate are def, LETHAL
I've been trying to watch all of this video through out the day but kept getting bothered at work. Well I finally get home and my 18" 6 ARC Proof research barrel showed up. So now I'm putting together a 6 ARC MK-12ish SPR. Can't wait to see what it can do.
its funny you say that, because we actually did a 6.5 Grendal franked mk12, and were planning to do a 6mm ARC version, however ammo was a bit to scarce for us. Wisemen Company actually made a sick 6.5 Grendal Mk12 and it shoots lasers. 1000 yard gun all day!
@@barrelandhatchet I used an Alexander Arm's 6.5 Grendel for my first snipers challenge match back in 2009 and fell in love with that caliber. Can't wait to see more videos from y'all.
I caught the Mk12 bug at the beginning of the Covid Shutdowns and built a clone correct MK12 Mod1. Love the way the gun looks and performs. But it is heavy and I shudder having to carry it long distances. Guns like that are IMHO good for stationary positions or where you will have a limited distance to patrol.
Love that conversation and listening to the brains spewing data and knowledge. I do have one question with why you use Ballistic Advantage, why do you use them when they have 1/16 twist? Doesn't the 5.56 using have better ballistic results with its a 1/7 or 1/8 twist?
Back your red dot zero up to about 75 yards. With a 4.5" height above bore, you'll end up with a very flat trajectory between 25 and 300 yards. With m193 my 20", on the tube mounted dot/SeeAll Open sight, holds low about 2.5" at 25 yards, high 1" at 100 yards, high 2.5" at 175, and low 2" at 300.
Just ran across your guys vid by accident on here and the thing is people think the sbrs are the new guns for whatever goes down but here’s the thing people forget the poor college student with a Walmart savage axis or a mosin making hits out to 500 yards especially with surplus guns cuz they cut their teeth learning their gun and getting accurate.
For me the difference between the two is "medium to long range that can function be pressed into closer usage if needed" for the SPR vs. "Short to medium range that can be pressed into longer usage if needed." for a "Recce" I have a 4-14x44mm Primary Arms FFP scope on a 1.5" Precision Reflex scope mount and top mounted hs407c dot sitting on a Faxon 18" Heavy Fluted Match barrel 1:8 twist 5r rifled in .223 Wylde and a KE Arms KP-15 lower receiver. I wanted it to be light enough to really hump around and I dig the mk12 ish look that it creates. For a "Recce" I'm wanting to build a 13.9-16" mid gas and use an Atibal X 1-10x30mm scope also with a piggybacked 407c, but I don't know of any 35mm scope mounts that have an RMR attachment. I reload PRVI Partizan 75gr OTM bullets because of budget considerations. I can load up about twice as many of those as if I were to buy 77gr mk262 ammo off the shelf. I bought a bunch of reloading supplies during the ammo crisis of 2020 and have been using IMR 4955 powder because that's what was available at the time I ordered.
Anything can be a recce rifle. Some tools are better suited than others, but examples of things to think about, environment, ammo compatibility, aftermarket support, weight, etc
A good diy way we used to do it was a 550 chord tied and taped to a flashlight body and make a snug fitting green duct tape lens cover for the light, that could squeeze over the lense. Make sure the cordage is short enough where the cap barely is long enough for the lens cover so it doesn’t fall off while walking or firing
I know a older video but great video….. I use a Criterion Core on my 18” DMR mk 12 ish build but does great with most ammo but with razor core 77 gr I’m getting stupid accuracy…. The Black hills is a bit hotter but staying around 2700 fps I’m getting sub moa I can’t wait to take it out past 400 yards but 50 to 400 is stupid if I do my part
So far I've been trying out an old Miani PD patrol Bushmaster, I lighten it up with a Mid West retro rail on an FN Gubment profile barrel, BCM guts and a 3.5 drop in , Vickers sling and a Trijicon ACOG ( rear sight cut off the grab ) it's painted and I tried to put something together and beat...been looking at an M4 marked Colt with solid stock , I may have to hack back the 18in barrel a bit ( hate to do that to a so called collector but Fuk it it's a tool )
These shorter barreled “Recces” are more like the Afghan concept from 10+ years ago. Although the Recce rifle wasn’t as concrete as the Mk12, it did have some specifics like the PRI tube, 16” Douglas barrel, and a 2.5-10 Leupold. It’s really the middle ground between the SPR and what you guys are calling Recces.
Every time I bust out my mk12 with aem 5 can it gets the most attention. Mk18 and other cool builds are great. But the mk12 always gets the looks. Also I love running it and training with it. Just gets expensive because I like to run match stuff in it.
Sand and dirt are usually the culprit, however for lefties it helps to just rip the mag out, since you have to bring the right hand up press the mag release
Was gonna say, even the most hand-me-down and dirty M4 I was ever issued, the mags were still dropping free no problem, whether it was pmags or USGI aluminums
@@deejay1534 yeah it does take a lot of dirt build up, but for lefties its more about ergonomics, strip if its available and doesn't take away anything in terms of performance
I am stuck trying to decide my next build. I want to basically build an AR in order to practice longer range accuracy at 500+ maybe out to 800 if feasible. I want to use a 16" heavy barrel. I dont know what magnification to use. Would a 1-8 LPVO work well or would it be better to use something higher like a 3-12 scope?
Would def recommend something like 6.5 grendal for anything past 600 or possibly jumping into a .308 bolt gun, if your really looking for distance capability that has the kinetic energy at the target at that distance.
It is our proprietary chest rig called the GHOST, however it is out of stock and we halted production in order to put out our 3rd gen version. If you want to stay up to date on that when we do start showing it off check out our IG page, barrelandhatchettradegroup
@@newtered3683 yea, l in the end most will look similar, there isn't to much to be able to reinvent the wheel on some things, but our gen 3 design, will have some very new concepts that we cannot wait to show off! plus we are just a couple of shooters trying to make our way into the big market.
no, thats heavy... how many more rounds or food or medical could you carry for that same weight? plus youll make more friends with food and medical vs a gun
pre mission planning would help alleviate that issue, the more you planned for that specific scenario you could try and tailor your gear to enhance your chances of success. Ounces do Equal LB's, but it may be nice to have another upper in your vault for more options for your next scenario
Went to Jtac for an event you guys hosted recently. Had a blast, well done! 🥃Just swapped in that same 13.0 Hanson. Looking forward to stretching her legs out.
13.7-14.5” button or 5R rifled barrel getting 2400-2500 FPS from MK262 rounds, while my 416R 3P polygonal rifled 11.5” gets 2500 FPS from MK262. Velocities we’re measured using the magnetospeed V3 chronograph. This clearly shows the superiority of polygonal rifled barrels. I have no idea why it’s not more popular.
nice nice, agreed, also a lot of folks don't know about companies like BA, so these video series will hopefully shed more light for folks during their builds
@@barrelandhatchet I know about Ballistic Advantage. I just built a 14.5 223 wylde, on a WMD nickel boron builders set (15” rail), think it might be a custom designed barrel by my LGS. It looks really good with the pinned muzzle brake just poking out of the hand guard.
That was actually our barrel and hatchet chest rig we developed but have halted production on, until we can finish the prototype of gen 3. So stay tuned!
I shoot this out of a DD mk12 upper and it is very impressive. I Chrono it out at an average speed of 2650fps and is just an accurate as hell combo with the DD stainless barrel. It is high grade military ammo that is sealed top and bottom and loaded with SMK bullets. I have never shot 262 so cannot comment on its comparability. Check out 9 hole reviews shooting this stuff out of his Mod0.
That is sick! currently the Ranch is sold out of membership slots until April of next year, however if you do take formal course from JTAC Ranch, the instructors do give the students an opportunity to sign up for membership.
Just put a red dot on any AR and your good to 300yds(zero). If you know what your doing it's good to 500yds by holding at his head at 400yds and about a foot above his head at 500yds. My 10yr old grand son does it all the time with his 16" cheap DPMS and an Aimpoint red dot.
@@barrelandhatchet We have been blessed with an 800yd field that we practice in all the time. Practice and ballistics makes all the difference. Oh ya and lots of ammo.
I’m building a 13.7 sons of liberty. What trigger are y’all running in yours. I have cmc drop in on my 12.5 and it’s worked great, but I don’t know if I want to run it in my 13.7.
I want more spr/recce, everyone wants to run sbrs and I think spr/recce rifles are apocalyptic proof rifles
Agreed! Clean hits and reliability is the king of battle in the end.
SBR because a lot of people live in the city, close quarters is the main focus.
@@diedfrombored5295 i suppose, but a 16” is likely plenty small for that.
If u wanna talk about apocalyptic proof rifle, get a flintlock. Where are u gonna find primers for your rifle?
@@crumply5959 in the basement with me.
16 inch bcm enhanced lightweight with a 1-8 and 45 degree red dot. good weight, great range and accuracy.
Boy that is a hard setup to beat! BCM is a tac driving tank of a brand!
Run this setup but leupold mark 6 and it’s noice 👍
I recently built a “Recce” for the first time, and I love the concept. It’s as close as we can get to a “do-all” rifle.
-Colt upper and lower
-Criterion barrel w/ headspaced bolt
-Badger Ord gas block
-Modlite PLH-v2 w/ Modbutton
-SLR IonLite rail
-MBUS Pros
-Badger Ord 1.70 mount
-Razor 1-6 with HS509T offset
-LaRue MBT trigger
-VLTOR A5 buffer system
That sounds like a solid tool!
How does that buffer system feel compared to stock?
A5 is the way on errything
What length barrel ??
@@YenzHouse 13.9 is what we use for our GPR
I’m just here for the violence.
You would be... should be called wise girls company! 😜
I freaking love it, “…wanna get into ballistics?” Sounds like me in any conversation.
Hahahaha yesss
Glad I found this channel. Running my 16” with a TA33 and offset rmr, just bought the piggyback mount to give yall’s advice a go. I followed you guys on fb and found I was like 5 days behind the remote memberships filling up for JTAC ranch. I’ll be ready to pounce on it next year though.
Love the top hat 509T . I got away from the 45 degree offset . I have 12.5 Mini Recce with Centurion HF Barrel , TR24 1-4× , 1.60 PEPR Mount , Top Hat 509T , X300U (12 o'clock) , C4 10" Quad Rail and YHM T2 Turbo K with Kurz Kit. This is my go too 556n 300 yards and in. I'm running Black Hills 77g TMK..
For my SPR I went with 12.5" Match Grade Nitride 6ARC With PLX 1-8× GRIFFIN MIL ACSS , 1.60 PEPR Mount , Top Hat 509T , Rein Micro , MI 11.5" Combat MLOK Rail , and YHM R2 Resonator K with Kurz Kit . I decided to go with 6ARC because it's an incredible cartridge . With 12.5" I'm getting 1600+ FPS and 600 Ft pounds of energy at 600 yards . Even at 800 yards its 1375 FPS with 450+ Ft pounds of energy. Realistically I built it for 600 yards and in . I'm using Black 105g BTHP , 106g TAP or 108g ELDM. I wanted 1 upper that has shorty barrel but still capable of 600+ yards . That's when I found the 6ARC . It's not a traditional SPR but it can achieve about the same results when compared to real MK12 out to 600 yards . Yet its 6" shorter and pounds lighter
I also have 18" 6ARC that's gonna be more of CSASS setup paired with 3-15× EBR7C MRAD..
If I were to build do all be all Rig . It would be 13.7 or 14.5 6ARC . It can handle medium sized Game out to 300 yards , bang steel out to 900 yards and be used for CQB ( Yeah a bit much for CQB but it will work )..
Centurion MK12 MOD 1 SPR is my absolute favorite MK1W variant. I'm also a sucker for NSW 15.1" Recce Rifles. I used to be a cloner when I was younger .
I've had 0 issues with any YHM Cans . Granted I dont have 10k rounds through them but I have 1k easily through each Can . What are the issues with YHM cans . I get it they are little gassy but I just BRT Tuned Gas Tubes to tame it down .
I can talk guns for hours . I'm gonna love this channel . Me and my buddies do stupid shit like text each other top 5 gun and knife lists or if you could only own 3 . I love US Military small arms history .
that sounds like a killer setup, We also text and comment back and forth for hours lol
Great job on this!
IMHO a RECCE rifle has a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, a LPVO, a MRDS (offset), and possibly a bipod. A Mini-RECCE has the same specs, but a shorter barrel.
An SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) is usually more tailored to mid and longer range use. It has an 18 inch barrel, a Medium Power Optic, a MRDS (offset), and a bipod.
Nice build, and thanks for the support!
Is 1-10 medium power?
@@davidb9323 hahaha lol not sure if there is an actual designated zoom catagory
@@davidb9323 that 3-15, 3-18 ranges seems to qualify as medium…
I agree. SPR with a 20 would work too imo.
I love this I idea of podcast/b role this is great keep it up man. Will there be one on chest rigs/plate carriers?
Hmm maybe, we have done one on IGTV but we can def throw a conversation up on hatchet cast
Just subbed today. Love the "proof of concepts" you guys are attempting to tackle. Also love that you guys are in Florida-- I was born and raised there. Nice seeing "home" from afar...
Having used a MK12 in my time of service, it is my favorite rifle and would never go without one.... It is my go to
Dude many were jealous of you down range, he who holds the mk12 in battle has much SWAG
@@barrelandhatchet Ya the MK262 ammo was like cigarettes'' in prison, everyone wanted it.
@@madjester2645 and willing to do a foot race with a rattlesnake in a dirt pit to acquire some
14.5, 1:7 DSArms chromelined, PA Cyclops Slx 1X Compact Prism w 3x magnifier.....love it.
It's interesting to me that you find the red dot on top the LPVO more natural than the 45° cant... I'm exactly the opposite. I find the 45° cant much more natural, idk why. To each their own I guess... if it works for you, it ain't stupid, right?
Dude that statement is so so so true, if it doesn't work for you then stick with what makes you the most effective especially when it comes to proven solutions, and it boils down to personal preference.
Here is the other advantage of having a 45 degree cant is your cheek never has to leave the stock and transition is alittle faster getting back on target with the scope.
One positive to the top hat is you can use it to key into a general area you want to shoot and just drop your head to get onto the glass.
@@MyLonewolf25 that is so true, something Roy does with long range shooting as well!
I like 18+ for an spr. BA makes an 18" DMR profile that works well, but it's a chunky boi. My recce setup is using a now discontinued Faxon heavy straight fluted 16". Both barrels absolutely love the Hornady black 62gr (if you can find it).
That is a sweet round
Discontinued?
Man I lucked out. I have that same Faxon as an 18" and it weighs 31oz vs the BA SPR profile barrel of the same length being 41oz.
So 10oz weight savings with the Faxon.
@@ericj6636 I wanna say that BA still produces their SPR barrel, but it shoots super tight groups and it loves 77, 69, and 62 as well
Omg so glad I found this channel. Wracking my brain between lpvo and red dot. I have two rifles one has an lpvo the other has a red dot. Like both for different reasons.
So put both on each rifle. Duh! Thanks for the great video.
Like how you even have a red dot on your longer range spr/dmr. So all the rifles in this video are 0-500 yard guns. Love it!
That’s awesome and thanks for the support!
Great info fellas! Looking forward to listening to the next 3.
Thanks so much for the support!
Glad you guys started this channel , I'm a "recce" and mk12 dude aswell. Keep up the good content !
Thanks so much for the support!!
Can’t believe I just found this channel. Central Florida represent. Great video.
My favorite factory 77gr OTM is from MAG TECH it's as equal accurate as my handloads. I use Primary Arms optics and I've built the MK12 MOD-O & MOD-H using PRI handguards and 18" 1/7 Douglas barrel's. I'm with y'all I love the MK12's!!!
that is awesome. we will have to check out the magic 77 grain, are they easy to find or pretty rare releases?
@@barrelandhatchet they are getting harder to find. I'll see if I have an extra box somewhere. Last summer I had 4000 rounds of my 77gr OTM handloads stolen and 300 rounds of it was the mag tech ammo. If I can find a box I'll get with you and send it so y'all can test it out.
@@brazzy1467 oh wow that is very generous, and would be a welcome thing to put on film for a future episode
Like any tool, it’s about your needs and capabilities. If you can’t hit the broad side of a barn with a your recce at 150m you don’t need a long gun for 600m shots. On the other hand, if you’re living in Arizona or Kansas you’re more likely to take longer shots vs here in FL where you’re singing “wide open spaces” if you got 200-300m LOS in the wild lol
True, true well said!
I love BA barrels. I have the hanson in 223 wylde n it is very accurate and consistant.
yeah man that barrel is great!
Would so love a M12 but I think I'll build my 13.5 lightweight first, and may even go with a bolt action for my DMR
Not a bad place to start off!
I built a beautiful & very effective 18” Wilson Combat SS fluted barrel SPR a couple of years ago. I have a 10.3. Now I’m thinking of a Sons Of Liberty 13.9
Sons of livery is awesome and that build sounds like a beauty
Im loving my pri upper w/ 1:8 on my mk12. Had the gun about 2 months and its wonderful.
It’s a pain to get on but man it is so worth it and tickles that nostalgia bug
Thank God I stumbled across this channel. I loved everything about this. From the trashy service rifles, the optics configuration, etc. I have multiple rifles that look identical to these. I piggyback rds, not just micros on my spr's as well. You can see an image of a few if you click on my image, and go to my page you can see my mk14 and an FNC. I've actually been running a t2 on top of my ACOG and it's been triggering the insta bois. I've never considered running a riser with my Acogs. I have multiple A2's with Acogs, but have never even seen the KRAM. I dig this ❤️.
My go to is SPR is my MODO; the MOD1 is superior, (full PRI so I don't believe it's correct) and I get so much sht for it. Us service rifle guys are a dying breed. The GuCcI and Peasant seem to be the current trend. Though it can sometimes be hard to justify $2k for an accessory that's 3x the price, at a fraction of the performance of current items. Talking to you Mk4..
Thanks so much for the support! And yes the KRAM is a lifesaver and we love trashy mil guns lol. But def go pick up a KRAM riser. The eye relief adjustment alone life changing!
I just stumbled upon this channel. I like theres not a bazillion subscribers and the content is Gold.
@@twiggybones7040 thank you so much for the support!!, we hope to continue to provide dope content
The mk 12 whoops @$$.
And... So does a rack grade M4 with a free float handguard and LPVO.
Amen to that!
I still like my skinny 16's. If im in a recon/scouting role (or hunting for that matter) I'm - probably - outside. Negligible weight increase, slightly better ballistics, and most importantly it points well. I get some of the advantages of an SPR (but none of the weight) and don't make too many compromises if I'm indoors. If you are comparing the typical "recce"/gpr and the spr, you're doing it wrong. I try to ask, instead, "how can I get the best qualities of both systems"
Great video guys.
I put together my idea of a RECCE rifle for the terrain I live in. I live around forests and wide open fields so mine is a 14.5 with a 1x4 LPVO, that's it. Slim, light, can do close in woods work and enough magnification to engage across a field. It's more of a defensive weapon than offensive as I am looking to gather intel, not take on 20 guys in a firefight.
true true, and also sometimes a good Reece rifle is the lightest weight one, we will be doing a dedicated Recce Rifle episode for episode 4
@@barrelandhatchet What sparked all the RECCE videos around RUclips this week?
@@davidb9323 hahahaha we literally asked the same exact question, so since it's a hot topic episode 4 will be about recce or what we like to call general purpose rifles
@@barrelandhatchet I look forward to learning new things and there are a lot of RECCE rifle builds, they fill the page when I Google RECCE. I am hoping for more on avoiding detection throughout the journey and am excited for GT thermal heli video example. Also interested what you can do with the information gathered, being limited by capabilities as a small force.
@@davidb9323 we will be doing a Reece Series, where we will also have other folks from different professions to hit on specific things that deal with Reece, not just the rifles, however we will have a whole episode dedicated to different types of Reece rifle, trains of thought
Great video! Thank you for sharing 😎👍
Thanks so
Much for the support Tom!
I believe it’s the dirty bird anti walk pins that are compatible with Geissele. They still are allowed to rotate. Which I guess Geissele says it needs.
I’m older so it’s kinda weird to me cause the term “recce” calls for something like an SBR, a 14” to 16” barrel is a standard rifle that every grunt has and a DMR requires an 18” or 20” barrel or a larger caliber. Still, great conversation!
We will actually be talking about “recce” rifles specifically in episode 4. Which comes out this week and redefining the term to general purpose rifle. We believe somehow recce is being misconstrued, and thought processes are not being put in place when building. Recce is the mission. The gun is the tool. We have been finding out more and more what people are calling their recce rifle, is really just a rifle that would be their go to blaster in a shtf scenario
@@barrelandhatchet - I’ll be looking forward to it. This video caught my attention so I watched then looked elsewhere and got extremely confused. Had to call my son who was a recent Marine. I got a history lesson then had to chuckle. “I got a recce rifle.” AKA “standard issue” in the Marine Corps. LOL
Edit - not trying to be a dick, I just didn’t understand why it was being called a recce rifle. A recce rifle in the Selous Scouts was an FAL. I just wasn’t getting it.
@@fanman8102 it’s just a new term that has been generated and usually has a certain type of look to it within the industry that is different than what standard mil uses. So we were kinda just bringing things back down to earth, finding what fits you. What are your goals and will serve you best, despite the job you plan on doing
Awesome video guys! Love my mock 12! Kac needs to do some big runs on mk12 rails! Not like there not gonna sell! I'd buy 3 today!
that's awesome! the spirit of the mk12 flows through you and your build
Pisses me off that they are so limited.
Cool to see some fellow Floridians. I’ve heard about JTAC, never been there. I’m over in West Pasco. Good video, got a new sub 🤘🏻
Thanks so much for the support fellow FLogrown Homie
I have a 16” JP barrel I’ve considered cutting down to 13.9 and then running a BRT gas tube to cut the gas down a bit
Great content. Love the format
Thanks for the support!
Huge fan of the PA 4-14X44 with DMR HUD reticle, running a tube mounted red dot. I'm specifically running a SeeAll Open Sight on top of mine. Huge fan of KP-15 lowers for a build like this regardless of which barrel length or profile you go with. I'm currently running a Magpul MOE handguard, but upgrading to an ultralight MLOK soon. Running an Inforce light atm. Going to be dropping my PEQ on this build along with a Smith Vortex soon. 20" HBAR 1-8 twist with A2 flash hider atm.
I run m193 primarily, but also have a couple of mags of Mock 262s (using AlcoBullets 77 grain rebated boat tails) in my go bag. They're loaded to around 2750-2780 muzzle velocity out of the 20" with a G1 BC of .512 iirc. Using BLC-2 powder ATM. The groups aren't as tight as H4895, but they're tight enough... and slightly faster.
Huge fan of 20" HBARs. M16 gang. Debating on building and form 1ing a short stubby suppressor to run on this rifle. I'm thinking around 1.75" outer diameter at around 5-6" long. Gonna try my hand at slanted baffles if I go this route (think washer/spacer flat baffles, but with the spacers cut at 45° angles.)
For "Recce" or General Purpose I use a KAC SR15 (mod2) in 14.5" instead of 16". She has an Eotech with 2 dots so have the new Eotech 5x for dot #2. Haven't been able to zero the 2nd dot but I believe it's designed to stretch the little 5.56 to its limit. They say 1x per 100 meters so 5x for 500 meters is good.
Have thought about LPVOs, Night Force has a killer military discount but haven't pulled the trigger on it yet (Leupold too got the MK5 cheap). Kinda waiting to put NF glass on a 6.5CM SR25 upper in the future.
Nightforce has some great options, but yeah they are pricey. KAC is so legit, Roy runs a KAC.
Iv heard nothing but people tell me recently KAC is a massive waste of money most of these people being x mitary. They said for 2.5 grand they expected better accuracy out the box. Whats your opinion on this?
@@mattellis6040 I dont really judge anything but a chome lined bolt gun on accuracy standards.
When I was in we used the M24 for accuracy.
The m16/m4 did fine out to 300-400 size of a human silhouette. It will drop people easy.
Im personally happy w/ KAC but money isnt an issue for me so I just stick with them and LMT. If money was Id prob look at stuff with Daniel Defense barrels, ADM rifles, home bullds with FN barrels and old school Colt 6933 uppers.
I haven’t noticed any pins walking out from my geissele triggers. I will be watching a little more closely now that’s for sure
Great podcast format!
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽✊🏽
I had no idea Roy was on you tube… Awesome
When talking about realistic battle capabilities the tavor checks off a whole lotta boxes gotta give it credit
The tabor, is def a proven system, Bull pups however require a lot of dedication to train torwards that motion of ergonomics, but those who accept the favor as a soul mate are def, LETHAL
Great video. I subbed.
I've been trying to watch all of this video through out the day but kept getting bothered at work. Well I finally get home and my 18" 6 ARC Proof research barrel showed up. So now I'm putting together a 6 ARC MK-12ish SPR. Can't wait to see what it can do.
its funny you say that, because we actually did a 6.5 Grendal franked mk12, and were planning to do a 6mm ARC version, however ammo was a bit to scarce for us. Wisemen Company actually made a sick 6.5 Grendal Mk12 and it shoots lasers. 1000 yard gun all day!
@@barrelandhatchet I used an Alexander Arm's 6.5 Grendel for my first snipers challenge match back in 2009 and fell in love with that caliber. Can't wait to see more videos from y'all.
@@brazzy1467 Thanks so much man, Episode 3 will be about training philosophy
@@barrelandhatchet I’ve been waiting for my 6ARC build for 2 years San Tan Tactical forged upper/lower. Getting 6ARC in Honolulu is like seeing a 🦄
@@J.Young808 hahahah keep fighting the good fight and patience is a virtue
I caught the Mk12 bug at the beginning of the Covid Shutdowns and built a clone correct MK12 Mod1. Love the way the gun looks and performs. But it is heavy and I shudder having to carry it long distances. Guns like that are IMHO good for stationary positions or where you will have a limited distance to patrol.
yeah dude, she is gorgeous, but you must pay her in love and strength due to her weight
@@barrelandhatchet Yep. The big girls need all the love you can give
@@jonwebsterabbott hahah anen
I love this channel and your content
Love that conversation and listening to the brains spewing data and knowledge. I do have one question with why you use Ballistic Advantage, why do you use them when they have 1/16 twist? Doesn't the 5.56 using have better ballistic results with its a 1/7 or 1/8 twist?
I wish I could get this on Spotify/podcast app/RUclips music. Trying to listen while at work. All good though. Great discussion.
Working on it!
Back your red dot zero up to about 75 yards. With a 4.5" height above bore, you'll end up with a very flat trajectory between 25 and 300 yards.
With m193 my 20", on the tube mounted dot/SeeAll Open sight, holds low about 2.5" at 25 yards, high 1" at 100 yards, high 2.5" at 175, and low 2" at 300.
I like how everyone is running the hot pocket, does it really work that well that everyone is using it?
Yes.
@@wisemencompany I got one, but haven't shot with it yet. feels awesome, and definitely looks cool too.
Man these episodes are dope AF!
Great info thanks!
Thanks for the support and watching, hope you got something out of it, or anything to help towards your next build
Looking forward to the kit episode(s)
So are we homie, so are we
Just ran across your guys vid by accident on here and the thing is people think the sbrs are the new guns for whatever goes down but here’s the thing people forget the poor college student with a Walmart savage axis or a mosin making hits out to 500 yards especially with surplus guns cuz they cut their teeth learning their gun and getting accurate.
amen! we talk about this in episode 3 that will come out on friday, that you cannot buy performance, you need to train
Love your videos and info
Look forward to more! Sub'ed.
Thank you sir, we are determined to not disappoint
Thank you 😊
For me the difference between the two is "medium to long range that can function be pressed into closer usage if needed" for the SPR vs. "Short to medium range that can be pressed into longer usage if needed." for a "Recce"
I have a 4-14x44mm Primary Arms FFP scope on a 1.5" Precision Reflex scope mount and top mounted hs407c dot sitting on a Faxon 18" Heavy Fluted Match barrel 1:8 twist 5r rifled in .223 Wylde and a KE Arms KP-15 lower receiver. I wanted it to be light enough to really hump around and I dig the mk12 ish look that it creates.
For a "Recce" I'm wanting to build a 13.9-16" mid gas and use an Atibal X 1-10x30mm scope also with a piggybacked 407c, but I don't know of any 35mm scope mounts that have an RMR attachment.
I reload PRVI Partizan 75gr OTM bullets because of budget considerations. I can load up about twice as many of those as if I were to buy 77gr mk262 ammo off the shelf. I bought a bunch of reloading supplies during the ammo crisis of 2020 and have been using IMR 4955 powder because that's what was available at the time I ordered.
Have you been having good luck finding primers by chance?
@@barrelandhatchet I bought like 10k early 2020 and am still using those. Haven't looked much since.
@@ericj6636 good move man, good move
Probably covered this already (sorry too much caffeine) what optic magnification do you guys like for SPRs? Heavily leaning into 3x12 or maybe 2.5x10!
Last year I built a side charging AR10 DMR with an 18” barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. Can that technically be used as a Recce rifle?
Anything can be a recce rifle. Some tools are better suited than others, but examples of things to think about, environment, ammo compatibility, aftermarket support, weight, etc
reddot on lpvo is a great way to breath fog onto your optic when in heat
I need to come a member at JTAC, I live right down the road and need to start training again.
If you choose to put a light on a rifle how and what would you recommend to cover the lens so no one will see any reflections from it ?
A good diy way we used to do it was a 550 chord tied and taped to a flashlight body and make a snug fitting green duct tape lens cover for the light, that could squeeze over the lense. Make sure the cordage is short enough where the cap barely is long enough for the lens cover so it doesn’t fall off while walking or firing
One question did you take that shopping cart back to Walmart when you were done with it?
hahaha cannot confirm or deny
I know a older video but great video….. I use a Criterion Core on my 18” DMR mk 12 ish build but does great with most ammo but with razor core 77 gr I’m getting stupid accuracy…. The Black hills is a bit hotter but staying around 2700 fps I’m getting sub moa I can’t wait to take it out past 400 yards but 50 to 400 is stupid if I do my part
So far I've been trying out an old Miani PD patrol Bushmaster, I lighten it up with a Mid West retro rail on an FN Gubment profile barrel, BCM guts and a 3.5 drop in , Vickers sling and a Trijicon ACOG ( rear sight cut off the grab ) it's painted and I tried to put something together and beat...been looking at an M4 marked Colt with solid stock , I may have to hack back the 18in barrel a bit ( hate to do that to a so called collector but Fuk it it's a tool )
Which kram height were you using with that acog that had the rmr on top? the 5.0... 7.0... or 9.0? Thanks and stay safe!!
7.0 my man
Subbed good work on this piece
I used the m855a1 quite a bit, was shooting through some ⅜" steel at 200m. Definitely a hot round
These shorter barreled “Recces” are more like the Afghan concept from 10+ years ago. Although the Recce rifle wasn’t as concrete as the Mk12, it did have some specifics like the PRI tube, 16” Douglas barrel, and a 2.5-10 Leupold. It’s really the middle ground between the SPR and what you guys are calling Recces.
You guys should come to a Quantified Performance match or we need to run one at JTAC.
Hmmm tell me more!
Love these videos.
Every time I bust out my mk12 with aem 5 can it gets the most attention. Mk18 and other cool builds are great. But the mk12 always gets the looks. Also I love running it and training with it. Just gets expensive because I like to run match stuff in it.
What are the terminal ballistics of 5.56mm rounds at 500yds? Velocity and Energy at 500? Thanks.
That is a great question and something we have talked about trying to experiment with and record for a future episode
Why do so many people have or use mags that dont drop free?
Sand and dirt are usually the culprit, however for lefties it helps to just rip the mag out, since you have to bring the right hand up press the mag release
Was gonna say, even the most hand-me-down and dirty M4 I was ever issued, the mags were still dropping free no problem, whether it was pmags or USGI aluminums
@@deejay1534 yeah it does take a lot of dirt build up, but for lefties its more about ergonomics, strip if its available and doesn't take away anything in terms of performance
I recently built a 16” and13.9 Criterion Core barrels its just stupid accurate no mater what I run
Outstanding video, guys.
Thank you sir!!!
Are you using the ballistic advantage nitride qpq 18'' spr barrel.
I am stuck trying to decide my next build. I want to basically build an AR in order to practice longer range accuracy at 500+ maybe out to 800 if feasible. I want to use a 16" heavy barrel. I dont know what magnification to use. Would a 1-8 LPVO work well or would it be better to use something higher like a 3-12 scope?
Would def recommend something like 6.5 grendal for anything past 600 or possibly jumping into a .308 bolt gun, if your really looking for distance capability that has the kinetic energy at the target at that distance.
@@barrelandhatchet thanks
What’s that multicam chest rig? The one with double mag pouches up front and big go pouches on the sides?
It is our proprietary chest rig called the GHOST, however it is out of stock and we halted production in order to put out our 3rd gen version. If you want to stay up to date on that when we do start showing it off check out our IG page, barrelandhatchettradegroup
Mayflower has a similar rig
@@newtered3683 yea, l in the end most will look similar, there isn't to much to be able to reinvent the wheel on some things, but our gen 3 design, will have some very new concepts that we cannot wait to show off! plus we are just a couple of shooters trying to make our way into the big market.
Wow I ended up building a recce rifle by virtual of being poor
Sig romeo juliet red dot magnifier combo
Bcm grip
Streamlight hlx
And budget upper
dude that sounds like a solid build, the best investment you can make is in yourself through training
Would it be advantageous to carry two uppers in SHTF/WROL scenario to swap depending on situation?
no, thats heavy... how many more rounds or food or medical could you carry for that same weight? plus youll make more friends with food and medical vs a gun
pre mission planning would help alleviate that issue, the more you planned for that specific scenario you could try and tailor your gear to enhance your chances of success. Ounces do Equal LB's, but it may be nice to have another upper in your vault for more options for your next scenario
Went to Jtac for an event you guys hosted recently. Had a blast, well done! 🥃Just swapped in that same 13.0 Hanson. Looking forward to stretching her legs out.
It sounds counter intuitive, but the mini acog sight picture and eye relief is wonders better than the standard one
13.7-14.5” button or 5R rifled barrel getting 2400-2500 FPS from MK262 rounds, while my 416R 3P polygonal rifled 11.5” gets 2500 FPS from MK262. Velocities we’re measured using the magnetospeed V3 chronograph. This clearly shows the superiority of polygonal rifled barrels. I have no idea why it’s not more popular.
nice nice, agreed, also a lot of folks don't know about companies like BA, so these video series will hopefully shed more light for folks during their builds
@@barrelandhatchet I know about Ballistic Advantage. I just built a 14.5 223 wylde, on a WMD nickel boron builders set (15” rail), think it might be a custom designed barrel by my LGS. It looks really good with the pinned muzzle brake just poking out of the hand guard.
What hand guard and length are you running on the sons of liberty 13.7
the SOGLW is their proprietary rail
Ok thank you, what length is it, I just ordered a 13.7 upper without handguards and I want it same length yours was.
Does it make a person cooler if they say “ kit “ rather then gear . Just wondering
yes, by at least 20000 points. also we have a bad habit of using crutch words, so get ready to hear it a ton in episode 3
What BA barrel do you all use for your mk12 builds? I was looking at the 18” SPR fluted for my build.
The standard 18” SPR barrel on their website, the premium barrel.
Great video guys! Looking forward to the O.W.O.S video
thank you so much for the support, we cannot wait to put out episode 2!
I just want to know what chest rigs are used. I am trying to find a rig like the guy with the 13.7
That was actually our barrel and hatchet chest rig we developed but have halted production on, until we can finish the prototype of gen 3. So stay tuned!
Bro that scoping leveling killed me lol! $3k rifle breaks out the husky level!
Good shit, have you guys ever messed with the IWI Systems 77 gr. OTM? I was told its supposed to be like black hills clone 262 ammo
I shoot this out of a DD mk12 upper and it is very impressive. I Chrono it out at an average speed of 2650fps and is just an accurate as hell combo with the DD stainless barrel. It is high grade military ammo that is sealed top and bottom and loaded with SMK bullets. I have never shot 262 so cannot comment on its comparability. Check out 9 hole reviews shooting this stuff out of his Mod0.
@@scottwilmoth1417 thanks for the reply and info. I'll check out 9 holes video on it 👍
Just moved to the great state of Florida recently and watching this I realize that JTAC 20 mins from my house.
That is sick! currently the Ranch is sold out of membership slots until April of next year, however if you do take formal course from JTAC Ranch, the instructors do give the students an opportunity to sign up for membership.
Dang 10/10 with 12 mph wind 💨
Just put a red dot on any AR and your good to 300yds(zero). If you know what your doing it's good to 500yds by holding at his head at 400yds and about a foot above his head at 500yds. My 10yr old grand son does it all the time with his 16" cheap DPMS and an Aimpoint red dot.
Dude that is so cool, and your Grandson is a natural it sounds like!
@@barrelandhatchet We have been blessed with an 800yd field that we practice in all the time. Practice and ballistics makes all the difference. Oh ya and lots of ammo.
Is this podcast on spotify? I'd love to have this on spotify as well
It will be soon
This is a awesome idea 💡 🔥
thank you good sir!
What would you say about more of a dmr/battle rifle style style
I’m building a 13.7 sons of liberty. What trigger are y’all running in yours. I have cmc drop in on my 12.5 and it’s worked great, but I don’t know if I want to run it in my 13.7.
What part of Florida are y'all from? We have a pretty good group of guys running SPR's to distance here in NE Florida.
Great video
Thanks much