@@barrelandhatchet y'all have quickly become one of my favorite channels on the topic. The signal to noise ratio here is astoundingly good and the knowledge you're sharing is clearly earned through experience and experimentation and not merely parroting. I feel like I'm taking a course every time I watch one of your videos. Keep it up, y'all are crushin' it.
@@barrelandhatchet hey guys been watching alot of your content, a roommate of mine just got a VUDU and I was curious what scope mount your using on your that has the red dot above the scope, keep up the great content!
That Unity mount setup at 31:00 is awesome. Solves a massive problem I've had with magnifiers swinging out to the side. I had actually trashed the idea of dot and magnifier, but this mount has me revisiting the idea completely. Awesome video guys.
Acog+ offset rds is pretty sweet. Best of both worlds. LPVOs are pretty cool too. But a T2+ magnifier is a fantastic sight as well. I guess it just depends on the person.
Great content. I'm a long time scope user, since 1974. I used LPVO's long before they became a thing. Of course in those days they were 1.5-4x or 1.75-6x and Heavy Duplex or German #4 reticles. I was also a long range competitor before PRS became a thing. So I have a few basic idea's about LPVO's. First, SFP vs FFP. on 1-6x LPVO's or below, SFP is superior as you can't really use FFP below 5x as you can't see the hash marks well enough. On 1-8's you can go either way, SFP or FFP as you do get some utility from 5x to 8x. On 1-10x's or above FFP all the way. Next is turrets. The current trend is towards capped turrets, and just using your reticle for holds. Which is OK, but as a long time turret twister, give me exposed, but locking turrets, then I have a choice instantly at my disposal. They are not going to move on their own so quite worrying. Reticles come in 3 flavors: BDC's, MOA, or Mil based. It goes without saying that your reticle should match your turrets. Anyway BDC's are generally for people you don't know their holds, and won't take the trouble to learn them. I call them Magic Reticles, and not in a good way. MOA & Mil reticles work the same way, and will require to map and confirm your holds. Mil holds are easier to learn and remember and the math is a bit easier, but either MOA or Mil reticles and matching turrets will get you there, quickly. Illumination is great, but people make way too much over "daylight" bright IMHO. I don't really need illumination in bright daylight, I really need it when things are gloomy, dark, cloudy, in shadows, in deep woods, peering inside a dark room to locate a target from outside, et al. In any event thanks again for your great content....
Heya fellas love the format of while your talking about the content you have the shooting just roll. Great info in this video. My house/travel gun is an 11.5 BCM pistol with an EOTECH, while my other go to is a 14.5 Colt 6944 running a very inexpensive Primary Arms LPVO. The fact I have somewhat decent ability to confirm information at distance, especially with my older eyes, makes it work for me.
LPVOs make sense when you're using their weight and size to combine optics and add capability. Once you add another red dot back on as people have been doing for a while now, you defeat that whole reason for their existance in the first place. Now you just have 3x-6/8x with extra bulk to take it to 1x that you don't use. At that point, how about a ~2.5x-10x for added capability and put the red dot on it. Or just save a lot of weight and go with a prism with that red dot. If the LPVO doesn't replace the red dot, that eliminates the primary reason for the LPVO.
I think the offset red dot makes a lot of sense for an LPVO. It's the same concept as backup iron sights, plus a dot is easier to get behind from odd angles, works better with night vision and can be quicker to come down from a higher magnification
@@baalzamon3593 But LVPO's have etched reticles. You don't need a "backup" red dot in that case. It's just extra weight. A fixed prism makes more sense to me then. You can also add a red dot to those. I think there's a lot of "what looks cool" coming into play with the current fad for LVPOs and the argument for them. You can call an ACOG old school or outdated tech all day long, but they work, and they work well or better than the extra added weight of an LVPO and it's mount, though to be fair, I bought an NF ATACR 1-8 and am eyeing PA new Compact PLx1-8 LVPO, but I also want an ACOG. LOL
Can't agree enough. Realize though these trends generally come from the competition shooters who are willing to try anything that will give them an edge. LPVOs were developed out of competition shooting where it was realized that sacrificing image quality at your low end and high end was worth having the ability to shoot from point blank out to distance with a simple flick of the wrist. The addition of a red dot was simply to add even more speed back when transitioning between ranges. What this video is preaching though is to set your rifle up to YOUR use case. I chased the fad and ended up with a 1-8 on my deer gun, which sees shots anywhere from 20yds to 300yds...found myself leaving it set on 3x or 4x all day long. Eventually dumped all the weight for a 3x prism with offset red dot and I'm way more stable shooting offhand and less fatigued humping my rifle for miles while hunting.
Can't shoot using nods though an lpvo so you need an offset red dot anyways. I like fixed acogs and 4x elcans with a red dot for outfitting an army because in urban environments 4x is good enough. But for single civilians in shtf I think an 1-8 lpvo makes more sense unless you have nods in which case either work. A trijicon mro weights like an oz so adding a dot isn't a big deal
Big fan of the TA-31. They aren’t indestructible, but they are very durable. If you match the ACOG with a piggyback MRDS, I think it’s pretty awesome. Low weight, solid magnification for target ID, just a good option for close-up and long range shooting.
I like these casts, especially when you guys put in b roll of the thing you're taking about because I'm not too knowledgeable of every make and model of everything so it is helpful to see what you're talking about
First time here and I like you guys already because you’re not Gucci gun snobs. Get people in the game at the entry levels, let them learn & grow and they will self justify upgrading on their own in the future! 🇺🇸💪🏾
New subscriber here. I have really enjoyed the first couple of videos I've watched. Great discussion, thorough and thoughtful dialog. Keep up the good work!
So happy you guys are in Mulberry, FL. I will make the drive from NPR as soon as I can. Hopefully there will be a class left that’s not sold out, I noticed there weren’t too many on your calendar on the website that weren’t sold out already!! Nice vids
I don't have experience with LPVOs but lots of experience with red dots w/magnifiers, iron sights and fixed magnification prism scopes. I find myself mostly using red dot/3x magnifier because of the fast switch from infinite eye relief 0x to magnified 3x. I only have 200yds on my property to shoot, 5x mag is too much but 3x is on the cusp of being useless. My problem with prism scopes is the reticle BDC is usually too small to use and you can't throw a magnifier on it (running 1 or 5x). Glass quality on prisms are excellent but quality red dots can be the same. Red dot emitters can vary in quality, I've had multiple 2MOA dots that had different MOA when magnified. I've shot full-semi auto, the only way you can track the muzzle is with a red dot on a 1/3 riser. My optimal setup if I could have it would be an ACSS reticle red dot with a 3x mag but nobody makes a higher end ACSS dot. Currently I'm running a prototype holosun 515GT-G and HM3X, I'm MOA accurate with this setup. They say their optics are SCAR-rated, but Im on my third replacement model. That's not to knock holosun, I put a 515CU on a 16" carbine and purposely left the rifle out when we got 12" of snow in Texas last year. The rifle held zero and worked from -25F wind chill up to 100F two weeks later.
you know, we have actually had the 509T, get moisture inside the closed emitter, we are hoping its just a fluke with the batch, but as a group, we have gone though 5 509T's. We may have to do an episode on it one day.
Great convo. Awesome B-roll as well! Personally, I would love to see further development of Leupold's D-EVO concept. Being able to switch magnification while literally having to move nothing except your eye is a great idea. A D-EVO type optic with a mounting plate system to attach a small RDS directly on top could supersede the LPVO in a lot of applications I think
That is such an interesting system and one we will need to try, they may have something going on that one. But yeah in terms of making hits a mag and red dot is very capable
I've ran everything from ACOGs to Aimpoints to 1-8 LPVOs and I will say the 1x cyclops gen 2 from Primary arms has been by far my favorite optic currently and with the ACSS reticle if you know your holds and BDC you can hit as far as you can see. Regardless great information guys really knowledgeable and good to hear other people's opinions and experiences
Good shit brothers keep these coming. A LOT of ppl need this info and it's enjoyable while at work with not a damn thing to do! Haha keep on keepin on brothers!
You sir are awesome, and thanks for the support, also if you know anyone that could benefit off the information please share this episode with them. We are just looking to share our experiences so we grow smarted and more capable as a community
How do you not have more subs?????? Good shit guys!!!! I'm running a Nikon p223 1 to 4.5 lpvo with a m223 mount it has a 1in tube if I had the funds I would upgrade but as of now I don't but it works for me!!
I was getting anxious during the shooting over the car when those leaves jumped 😆 kept thinking the wipers were clipped. Great video, really enjoying your channel
I live in a unique environment within MN. 10 min north of me is open country and 10 min south of me is suburbs of the twin cities. Because of this I would always choose a plate carrier, belt, and pack. May end up going either direction. Rifle set up is a mk18 with a exps3-0 and a g33. After watching your videos and several others my idea of a “general purpose” rifle has changed. In my pack I will stow a second 16” upper with a scope. I will definitely have to reassess what I keep in my pack. But for my environment being able to switch or stow my mk18 upper and start with my 16” upper will be quite a advantage. One thing I’d like to see is a video of when to use/bring your gear. Address what are people training for. Couple years ago I took my family on a in state vacation. At this point does one bring their edc or a full kit to safely make the trek back home on foot if needed.
I heard a wonderful quote, the kind of optic doesn't matter, it's the skill and training of the shooter. People cleared houses with 20inch m16a4 and acogs, people hit targets out to 300 yards with a red dot and a 12.5. The optic, and even the gun doesn't matter, it's the shooter.
I'm Dual illuminated fan for 556 / 223W. My go too optics are TA45 , TR24 and TR25 with red or green Triangle . I rarely shoot 556 past 300 yards . That's why I prefer 11.5" - 13.7" barrel lengths . When I'm running LPVO it's always paired with top Hat MRDS..
@@barrelandhatchet Centurion HF barrels are my personal favorite 556n barrels . They use TAPERED bore for insane accuracy . I've had good luck with CRITERION . I originally had their Hybrid profile and when the CORE came out I switched. CORE , Centurion MIDWEIGHT HF and BCM ELW BFH are my favorite profiles . They also make the most sense as well . I'll only use Gov or M4 Profile if its HF or Colt . I'm a such a sucker for TDP Colts .
@@barrelandhatchet I'm only missing 2 Colts for all the US DOD models . I have SP1 , A2 , 723 , 727 , M4 , M4A1 , and MK18 . I'm really only missing XM177E2 . I kick myself in the ass every single day for not picking up 6940P and 901 . I have 6943 and 6945 Monolithics . I just wish I picked up 6940P . My dad gave me Diemaco C8 14.5 Fixed Carry Handle 14.5 Upper 15+ plus ago . I wish we could get more Diemaco / C.C. Stuff. I'd love to own C.C. MRR or L119A2
We have seen many things run on the Tavor, to include the LPVO. However from folks we know who run them. The dot and magnifier or ACOG/Prism is the popular options right now
What are your thoughts on trying to run a micro-prism on 45°? I like not having to rely on batteries, so was considering trying the PA micro-prism canted.
Personally, I like the dot/magnifier option if I have to choose just one. My “go to” BCM 14.5 has a EXPS3 and a Vortex 3x Micro. I think it boils down to 2 things, personal preference and rifle purpose. For example, my home defense 11.5” AR15 has a T2 red dot and my 16” AR10 has a 1-8 34mm LPVO.
Good stuff man, my go to is a 13.7 with a holoson dot on a unity fast mount paired with an eotech g33 in a unity omni FTC mount. Been very happy with it.
@@Goldenwithaleash yessir, sons of liberty 13.7, it's been a hell of a rig, shoots great suppressed or unsuppressed. I've dropped alot into it just for my preferences but out of the box it's ready to go. Been runnin it for about 2 years now.
@@tylertapp131 nice! I’ve been looking for an excuse for another AR and for whatever reason I like atypical barrel length. In 5.56, I have a 11.5”, 14.5” and 18”. Might as well add 13.7” to the mix.
You boys Need to hunt the Midwest, north to south, and play an airsoft field that has an urban setup so you can make it past your flat range. That being said, it’s nice to see a newer channel on this side of the spectrum.
we are trying to talk about the real stuff, and training methods and philosophy, things that every citizen who cares about being an asset that is in this community needs to hear. training with purpose.
Il tell you what for the tube size on scopes. Iv had 34mm 56 objective scopes. And my trijicon tenmile thats 30mm and 44mm obj is the brightest clearest scope ive ever used
Depends on the intended purpose but for general use any kind of red dot or iron sights. Both will get you to 300 meters which is max effective range of the 5.56 on a point target from a carbine.
Agreed, key word being effective. can you make hits, sure but the effectiveness of your capability is what you want to build upon. some tools work better than others in their own element and designated purpose. you can get by with a lot though. the key is investing in yourself, through training
@@davidb9323 It was 300 meters when I was in but those TMs change constantly. Wouldn't suprise me if it is 500 meters now and go to a different distance two years from now.
So…I live in central FL. I was wondering if y’all have any recommendations for a range that allows for extended distances? All I can find are places that are 100yrds
My .02 Budget LPVO Sheppherd 1-8 for the 500ish range it's cheaper than their FFP but I like it better because the reticle is thinner and better. If you bump up to 1k Vortex Razor ii 1-6 or the Primary Arms 1-8 witht he Griffin Mil Reticle. Above that the Vortex Rzr iii 1-10 is really sweet. I've used it in many long range comps and made accurate hits out to 1200
we will actually be doing a dedicated RECCE rifle episode for episode 4 and we are currently playing with he 1-8 FFP from primary arms, the griff reticle.
@@barrelandhatchet Awesome, I'm hoping to make it out to JTAC next year for a PRS match of some sort to see if my long range gas gun skills translate to that style of match
Like yall, I have tried everything from emitter dots, holographic dots, magnifiers, prisms, lvpos, and higher mag scopes. I started and spent many more years hunting bigger game before I got into more "tactical" shooting. I am sold and switching most of my optics to 2x12 scopes with a top mount red dot. I have the heads up posture for the dot so I can be comfortable and shoot at speed. The magnified optic sits lower and I can get a good cheek weld for precision shooting. I am wondering if yall have tried something higher mag than a 1 by x optic. If I am piggybacking a dot, I don't see the need for a 1 by x optic. I want a bigger objective lense and some more magnification for pid at range. Food for thought
The 1x prisms are good for those who want a dot, without the dot but also not the magnification of an ACOG style optic. The primary arms prism specifically we have heard works well with passive night vision techniques, but it is also personal preference for what your needs are. The 2-12 scope are super nice and it’s a great range of zoom. One of my favorites is the trijicon credo 2-10
@@barrelandhatchet Sorry, I meant a 1x4 or 1x6 or 1x8 etc. With a piggyback red dot, I am not seeing the draw for these optics anymore. I already have a 1x dot on top, so why start my scope there.
I really liked that you guys didn't say that a person has to have X optic or else they fail. I hate when guys do a video like this and say you have to run this optic or this style or else you are wrong for it. Same thing in rifle calibers....
I have bad eyes even with glasses. I am concerned about identification, I need some sort of magnification. What is the best options for Fastest target acquisition. Considering eye relief, eye box and parallax. Budget max roughly 250. Thank you in advance
not gonna lie... 2:45 bugs me. I fully advocate bracing on something to make your shots more stable. but The guy is literally resting the suppressor on the hood. That literally throws your shots off (dont believe me? go lightly press on the end of your barrel and watch it deflect) and completely defeats the purpose of a free floated barrel... I dont know. I guess this comment is hopefully so the guy can see this and correct it for future shooting drills.
we are aware of it, and roy became immediately aware of it after the hood had a nice groove in it, sometimes in the heat of the drill you can make those basic simple mistakes. but that's why we train to make those simple mistakes less often. Thanks for the point out, its def something we have talked about after that drill session. :)
@@barrelandhatchet I would like to say, after re-reading my comment, it sounds a lot harsher than I meant it to be. It was a good video and I did appreciate it.
I'm curious to know how close your poa, poi is with the drop points in something like an acog between a 13.7 and 14.5.. I run a 13.7 as my go to but havent made the leap into any kind of lpvo or prism optics because I have no idea how it would line up with the stuff in the reticle.... so I'm still rockin the dot and magnifier combo. If anyone could let me know any info on the matter itd be greatly appreciated.
ACOG is the best imo but eotech, aim point, and meprolight are all awesome. Need to get a magnifier for the eotech and an rmr to mount on top of my acog soon
What is that mount u have on your magnifier that goes with that aimpoint on that unity mount? And what magnifier is that? I like how it flips up and down but stays on the same plane as your red dot
Love this channel and love the seriously humble and respectful this comment section is. We need more channels like this! Maybe at some point you guys can hook up with John lovell on the Warrior Poet Society Network and get off garbage RUclips censorship!
the comment section has been incredible! we are seeing exactly what we hoped, where the comment section is just an extension of the episode and more conversations are happening between passionate folk and constructive learning is forming!
May I get your opinion on this: I am setting up a DD MK18 as a general purpose setup. I am thinking of putting a LPVO (like the NX8 1-8). More for that PID, than “long range” shooting. Any have opinions on a LPVO on such a short setup?
I think personally if it were our setup, a red dot and a magnifier would be our go to. It’s lighter, and a little more reflexive. We would also put a riser combo with the optics. Shorter rail space is the killer on this. So lights laser and optics start to get really cramped. But also with a 10.3 your accuracy starts to spread out after 300. Not totally bad, but enough where 400-500 can be challenging.
I'm not the channel. But I recommend the Chevron or ACSS over crosshairs as they're a little more intuitive and require less mental processing at range for their BDC. That being said I was issued one so I'm slightly bias. Either way whichever one you train on will be king and you can get used to whatever pretty quickly. I will say that currently it's much easier to find crosshair Acogs slightly used and much cheaper than chevrons. The acss is even harder to track down then either.
Reflex are awesome and certainly have their place, but ive definitely started leaning heavily towards prism and LPVO on pretty much any rifle that isn't intended solely for in/around buildings. Biggest problem ive found is the LPVOs are HEAVILY dependent on quality(price) before they can truly start encroaching on red dot territory at 1x, and doing what an LPVO really needs to do.
If I'm using my lvpo to hit something that's so far away I have to use the reticle to range it, I'm going to be at the highest setting. FFP adds too much weight and too little light transmission for my taste.
Nice I agree. What do you guys think about larger magnification options like 3-18 and what reticules would suite a 5.56 best? Really like the podcast. 👍🏻
I have personally fallen into the lpvo camp for a majority of my "tyrant killing" guns. On paper I love the idea of a red dot and magnifier but in practice I do not prefer it to an lpvo. The magnifers always have abysmal fov and while it's useable I'd take a quality lpvo any day. On the flip side I also love the idea of a lightweight acog with rmr but I hate the eye relief on that thing and in practice I find I like what my razor 1x6 brings to the table. All work but for an all around let's go fight rifle I am strongly in the lpvo with canted dot. Heavier for sure but just fits my wants way more. I also believe police should get lpvos. The information you can get is invaluable. Thanks for another good one. Keep up the good work.
Red dot up to 300 yd. hold is roughly 12 in above target. But at 400 and 500?????? 3ft and 5ft hold overs respectively. Not impossible but not an “all day” shot
But agreed it’s not an easy thing to do, however with a bit of training and a lot of time behind the dot it can become something very feasible, in fact we stretched a holosun dot with the ACSS reticle system that is from primary arms.
Simple conclusion: No ONE is the best. It's all about anticipated combat distance. Close: red dots. Mid-close: red-dots with magnifier. Mig-long to long: LPVO. Extreme: Expensive stuff.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Camera man needs props. Working just as hard as anyone out there.
Keep up the good work, guys!
He is a beast
Found you guys yesterday. Loved the RECCE/SPR chat. Y’all are onto something here! 👌🏼
Thank you good sir! We are a new channel, but we are excited to push out more content!
@@barrelandhatchet y'all have quickly become one of my favorite channels on the topic. The signal to noise ratio here is astoundingly good and the knowledge you're sharing is clearly earned through experience and experimentation and not merely parroting.
I feel like I'm taking a course every time I watch one of your videos.
Keep it up, y'all are crushin' it.
@@ericj6636 wow we are humbled by your comment and hope to continue to provide quality content! Thanks so much for the support!
@@ericj6636 dude thanks so much for the support and we will work hard to keep pushing out quality content
@@barrelandhatchet hey guys been watching alot of your content, a roommate of mine just got a VUDU and I was curious what scope mount your using on your that has the red dot above the scope, keep up the great content!
That Unity mount setup at 31:00 is awesome. Solves a massive problem I've had with magnifiers swinging out to the side. I had actually trashed the idea of dot and magnifier, but this mount has me revisiting the idea completely. Awesome video guys.
Acog+ offset rds is pretty sweet. Best of both worlds. LPVOs are pretty cool too.
But a T2+ magnifier is a fantastic sight as well. I guess it just depends on the person.
Great content. I'm a long time scope user, since 1974. I used LPVO's long before they became a thing. Of course in those days they were 1.5-4x or 1.75-6x and Heavy Duplex or German #4 reticles. I was also a long range competitor before PRS became a thing. So I have a few basic idea's about LPVO's. First, SFP vs FFP. on 1-6x LPVO's or below, SFP is superior as you can't really use FFP below 5x as you can't see the hash marks well enough. On 1-8's you can go either way, SFP or FFP as you do get some utility from 5x to 8x. On 1-10x's or above FFP all the way.
Next is turrets. The current trend is towards capped turrets, and just using your reticle for holds. Which is OK, but as a long time turret twister, give me exposed, but locking turrets, then I have a choice instantly at my disposal. They are not going to move on their own so quite worrying.
Reticles come in 3 flavors: BDC's, MOA, or Mil based. It goes without saying that your reticle should match your turrets. Anyway BDC's are generally for people you don't know their holds, and won't take the trouble to learn them. I call them Magic Reticles, and not in a good way.
MOA & Mil reticles work the same way, and will require to map and confirm your holds. Mil holds are easier to learn and remember and the math is a bit easier, but either MOA or Mil reticles and matching turrets will get you there, quickly.
Illumination is great, but people make way too much over "daylight" bright IMHO. I don't really need illumination in bright daylight, I really need it when things are gloomy, dark, cloudy, in shadows, in deep woods, peering inside a dark room to locate a target from outside, et al.
In any event thanks again for your great content....
Thanks so much for the support!!!! Thanks so much also of the information for the comment feed!
Thank you for your decades of experience. I just got an LPVO myself lol.
Heya fellas love the format of while your talking about the content you have the shooting just roll. Great info in this video.
My house/travel gun is an 11.5 BCM pistol with an EOTECH, while my other go to is a 14.5 Colt 6944 running a very inexpensive Primary Arms LPVO. The fact I have somewhat decent ability to confirm information at distance, especially with my older eyes, makes it work for me.
Best New channel I came across in years. Well done boys!!
LPVO is a good starter. I can barely see my target with a reflex sight at 200 yds. And the PA 3X Prisms are an excellent second choice.
LPVOs make sense when you're using their weight and size to combine optics and add capability. Once you add another red dot back on as people have been doing for a while now, you defeat that whole reason for their existance in the first place. Now you just have 3x-6/8x with extra bulk to take it to 1x that you don't use. At that point, how about a ~2.5x-10x for added capability and put the red dot on it. Or just save a lot of weight and go with a prism with that red dot. If the LPVO doesn't replace the red dot, that eliminates the primary reason for the LPVO.
I think the offset red dot makes a lot of sense for an LPVO. It's the same concept as backup iron sights, plus a dot is easier to get behind from odd angles, works better with night vision and can be quicker to come down from a higher magnification
@@baalzamon3593 But LVPO's have etched reticles. You don't need a "backup" red dot in that case. It's just extra weight. A fixed prism makes more sense to me then. You can also add a red dot to those. I think there's a lot of "what looks cool" coming into play with the current fad for LVPOs and the argument for them. You can call an ACOG old school or outdated tech all day long, but they work, and they work well or better than the extra added weight of an LVPO and it's mount, though to be fair, I bought an NF ATACR 1-8 and am eyeing PA new Compact PLx1-8 LVPO, but I also want an ACOG. LOL
Can't agree enough. Realize though these trends generally come from the competition shooters who are willing to try anything that will give them an edge. LPVOs were developed out of competition shooting where it was realized that sacrificing image quality at your low end and high end was worth having the ability to shoot from point blank out to distance with a simple flick of the wrist. The addition of a red dot was simply to add even more speed back when transitioning between ranges.
What this video is preaching though is to set your rifle up to YOUR use case. I chased the fad and ended up with a 1-8 on my deer gun, which sees shots anywhere from 20yds to 300yds...found myself leaving it set on 3x or 4x all day long. Eventually dumped all the weight for a 3x prism with offset red dot and I'm way more stable shooting offhand and less fatigued humping my rifle for miles while hunting.
Can't shoot using nods though an lpvo so you need an offset red dot anyways. I like fixed acogs and 4x elcans with a red dot for outfitting an army because in urban environments 4x is good enough. But for single civilians in shtf I think an 1-8 lpvo makes more sense unless you have nods in which case either work. A trijicon mro weights like an oz so adding a dot isn't a big deal
@@ryaniam22 fair enough
MORE great info! I found myself using similar setups. Red dot on 10.5, Holo + magnifier on 12.5, LPVO/Offset dot on 14.5.
Haha thanks for the support, we plan on releasing a “shop talk” episode here soon
Big fan of the TA-31. They aren’t indestructible, but they are very durable. If you match the ACOG with a piggyback MRDS, I think it’s pretty awesome. Low weight, solid magnification for target ID, just a good option for close-up and long range shooting.
absolutely agree!!
I like these casts, especially when you guys put in b roll of the thing you're taking about because I'm not too knowledgeable of every make and model of everything so it is helpful to see what you're talking about
awesome we are glad you are getting something out of the channel!
I never sit through 30+ minute videos but his was very interesting. Helped me validate my choices for my 12.5, 16 and 20 inchers.
Keep up the good work. Sharing these casts with friends and family
thanks so much for the support and the Shares!!!!
5.12k when I subbed ,y’all will hit 50-100k subs by the end of 2022. This is what we need to hear. Thank y’all
Dude we have been blown away by the support. We are glad folks are are getting something out of the videos, and thanks so much for the support!
First time here and I like you guys already because you’re not Gucci gun snobs. Get people in the game at the entry levels, let them learn & grow and they will self justify upgrading on their own in the future! 🇺🇸💪🏾
Amen, we are just professional students. Always learning
New subscriber here. I have really enjoyed the first couple of videos I've watched. Great discussion, thorough and thoughtful dialog. Keep up the good work!
So happy you guys are in Mulberry, FL. I will make the drive from NPR as soon as I can. Hopefully there will be a class left that’s not sold out, I noticed there weren’t too many on your calendar on the website that weren’t sold out already!! Nice vids
thank you sir and we look forward to seeing you at a class
Dude that 80's commando look is badass... diggin that headband 😆... you're missing the cigar... lol
hahaha maybe we will get some candy cigarettes
Just un-covered footage from the Korean war shows ACOGs in use. Those things are legendary.
HAHAHA they are, I would almost argue they are one of the few optics that have the most lengthy combat time
I don't have experience with LPVOs but lots of experience with red dots w/magnifiers, iron sights and fixed magnification prism scopes.
I find myself mostly using red dot/3x magnifier because of the fast switch from infinite eye relief 0x to magnified 3x. I only have 200yds on my property to shoot, 5x mag is too much but 3x is on the cusp of being useless.
My problem with prism scopes is the reticle BDC is usually too small to use and you can't throw a magnifier on it (running 1 or 5x). Glass quality on prisms are excellent but quality red dots can be the same. Red dot emitters can vary in quality, I've had multiple 2MOA dots that had different MOA when magnified.
I've shot full-semi auto, the only way you can track the muzzle is with a red dot on a 1/3 riser.
My optimal setup if I could have it would be an ACSS reticle red dot with a 3x mag but nobody makes a higher end ACSS dot. Currently I'm running a prototype holosun 515GT-G and HM3X, I'm MOA accurate with this setup. They say their optics are SCAR-rated, but Im on my third replacement model. That's not to knock holosun, I put a 515CU on a 16" carbine and purposely left the rifle out when we got 12" of snow in Texas last year. The rifle held zero and worked from -25F wind chill up to 100F two weeks later.
you know, we have actually had the 509T, get moisture inside the closed emitter, we are hoping its just a fluke with the batch, but as a group, we have gone though 5 509T's. We may have to do an episode on it one day.
Just recently found your channel. Man you guys have alot of knowledge.
Great convo. Awesome B-roll as well! Personally, I would love to see further development of Leupold's D-EVO concept. Being able to switch magnification while literally having to move nothing except your eye is a great idea. A D-EVO type optic with a mounting plate system to attach a small RDS directly on top could supersede the LPVO in a lot of applications I think
That is such an interesting system and one we will need to try, they may have something going on that one. But yeah in terms of making hits a mag and red dot is very capable
17:25 I’m pretty sure that muzzle device is installed incorrectly or maybe it’s just crap idk lol. But it was violently throwing the barrel down
Keep these up, gentlemen. This is some of the best content on YT.
Thank you good sir, we cannot wait to release episode 3
I like heavy duty red dots with covers and ARDs I've been trying to branch out to other types of optics
Nice nice, well the journey is an exciting one!
I've ran everything from ACOGs to Aimpoints to 1-8 LPVOs and I will say the 1x cyclops gen 2 from Primary arms has been by far my favorite optic currently and with the ACSS reticle if you know your holds and BDC you can hit as far as you can see. Regardless great information guys really knowledgeable and good to hear other people's opinions and experiences
Good shit brothers keep these coming. A LOT of ppl need this info and it's enjoyable while at work with not a damn thing to do! Haha keep on keepin on brothers!
Thanks for the support!!
Another fire ass episode 🔥 yall are killing it guys, please do keep it up!
We will! And Happy new year!
You guys are a well of knowledge. Thank you for awesome info.
You sir are awesome, and thanks for the support, also if you know anyone that could benefit off the information please share this episode with them. We are just looking to share our experiences so we grow smarted and more capable as a community
How do you not have more subs?????? Good shit guys!!!! I'm running a Nikon p223 1 to 4.5 lpvo with a m223 mount it has a 1in tube if I had the funds I would upgrade but as of now I don't but it works for me!!
hey you are working within your budget and seeking to better yourself, you are already winning
I was getting anxious during the shooting over the car when those leaves jumped 😆 kept thinking the wipers were clipped.
Great video, really enjoying your channel
Hahahaha thanks so much for the support, and luckily we don’t use personal vehicles to shoot around
Glad I stumbled into your channel. Keep it up boi's
Thanks, will do! your support matters a lot to us, we hope you get some entertainment and positive vibes from this channel
SWFA 1-4 Super Sniper for me on 1X works similar to a red dot on 4X 800 yards. To me it’s the do all with very clear glass and built like a tank.
14.5 (w RONIN V10 RED DOT), 16 INCH (w P.A. SLx CYCLOPS 1ST GEN ACSS, with a vortex mini 3x magnifier).... LOVE EM BOTH.
Very very nice!
Thanks for the information. I am currently running a Trijicon MRO
I went with the PA glx 2x prism
I live in a unique environment within MN. 10 min north of me is open country and 10 min south of me is suburbs of the twin cities. Because of this I would always choose a plate carrier, belt, and pack. May end up going either direction. Rifle set up is a mk18 with a exps3-0 and a g33. After watching your videos and several others my idea of a “general purpose” rifle has changed. In my pack I will stow a second 16” upper with a scope. I will definitely have to reassess what I keep in my pack. But for my environment being able to switch or stow my mk18 upper and start with my 16” upper will be quite a advantage.
One thing I’d like to see is a video of when to use/bring your gear. Address what are people training for. Couple years ago I took my family on a in state vacation. At this point does one bring their edc or a full kit to safely make the trek back home on foot if needed.
What are those laser cut chest rigs you're wearing? Around 30:00
Shhhhhh that is our prototype that we will be hopefully making available in the near future. It’s going through testing right now
I heard a wonderful quote, the kind of optic doesn't matter, it's the skill and training of the shooter.
People cleared houses with 20inch m16a4 and acogs, people hit targets out to 300 yards with a red dot and a 12.5. The optic, and even the gun doesn't matter, it's the shooter.
I'm Dual illuminated fan for 556 / 223W. My go too optics are TA45 , TR24 and TR25 with red or green Triangle . I rarely shoot 556 past 300 yards . That's why I prefer 11.5" - 13.7" barrel lengths . When I'm running LPVO it's always paired with top Hat MRDS..
Nice nice. What brand of barrel are you using?
@@barrelandhatchet Centurion Midweight HF and Criterion CORE C.L. are my go too. I have quite a few Colts that I use as well .
@@barrelandhatchet Centurion HF barrels are my personal favorite 556n barrels . They use TAPERED bore for insane accuracy .
I've had good luck with CRITERION . I originally had their Hybrid profile and when the CORE came out I switched.
CORE , Centurion MIDWEIGHT HF and BCM ELW BFH are my favorite profiles . They also make the most sense as well . I'll only use Gov or M4 Profile if its HF or Colt . I'm a such a sucker for TDP Colts .
@@seanwhite304 yeah criterion barrels arevery very nice, and we are also a sucker for colts as well!
@@barrelandhatchet I'm only missing 2 Colts for all the US DOD models . I have SP1 , A2 , 723 , 727 , M4 , M4A1 , and MK18 . I'm really only missing XM177E2 . I kick myself in the ass every single day for not picking up 6940P and 901 . I have 6943 and 6945 Monolithics . I just wish I picked up 6940P .
My dad gave me Diemaco C8 14.5 Fixed Carry Handle 14.5 Upper 15+ plus ago . I wish we could get more Diemaco / C.C. Stuff. I'd love to own C.C. MRR or L119A2
what are some good choices for Tavor X95 rigs? Dots and Magnifiers? What are some options. Lastly is LPVO on a bullpup a good option etc?
We have seen many things run on the Tavor, to include the LPVO. However from folks we know who run them. The dot and magnifier or ACOG/Prism is the popular options right now
What are your thoughts on trying to run a micro-prism on 45°? I like not having to rely on batteries, so was considering trying the PA micro-prism canted.
Hmmm that is interesting, to be honest we haven’t thought of that one
Nutnfancy was talking about lpvo style optics years ago. Glad it’s gaining popularity
Personally, I like the dot/magnifier option if I have to choose just one. My “go to” BCM 14.5 has a EXPS3 and a Vortex 3x Micro. I think it boils down to 2 things, personal preference and rifle purpose. For example, my home defense 11.5” AR15 has a T2 red dot and my 16” AR10 has a 1-8 34mm LPVO.
Very logical thought process and sounds legit, about the same way we would set up those tools
Good stuff man, my go to is a 13.7 with a holoson dot on a unity fast mount paired with an eotech g33 in a unity omni FTC mount. Been very happy with it.
@@tylertapp131 how you like that 13.7”? What brand? SOLGW?
@@Goldenwithaleash yessir, sons of liberty 13.7, it's been a hell of a rig, shoots great suppressed or unsuppressed. I've dropped alot into it just for my preferences but out of the box it's ready to go. Been runnin it for about 2 years now.
@@tylertapp131 nice! I’ve been looking for an excuse for another AR and for whatever reason I like atypical barrel length. In 5.56, I have a 11.5”, 14.5” and 18”. Might as well add 13.7” to the mix.
I like the low mag prism optics since they have an etched recital so it's always there battery or not...
yeah those are dope, have you seen the one from primary arms, the cyclops?
They suck?
@@mrs.vasquezz So, most likely is your shooting...
@@kencaz you think? Wanna find out?
@@mrs.vasquezz no the cyclops is pretty solid, it actually was a favorite amongst the tactical games athletes!
JTAC RANCH POLK COUNTY BABY WOO, it has always been my dream to go shooting at JTAC ranch.. one day, much love from Tampa 💙
I need more of these... you guys are good.
What optic do you guys recommend for a BCM 14.5 P&W? I will use it as a general purpose or SHTF type scenario.
The discerning gentleman has both focal planes in his LPVO
Haha touche
Question. Which bears are best ?
Black Bear, beats, bears, battlestar glactica
1:51 WOW that's a whole lotta finger on that trigger 😂
Id like to see a review on that Trijicon 2-10 Credo you guys are running on your MK12's. They have a 1-6 I'm seriously considering. Good Video!!
The trijicon credo 2-10 is incredible, yeah that would be a good shop talk episode
Amazing. Can tell me what backpack being used in review
You boys Need to hunt the Midwest, north to south, and play an airsoft field that has an urban setup so you can make it past your flat range. That being said, it’s nice to see a newer channel on this side of the spectrum.
we are trying to talk about the real stuff, and training methods and philosophy, things that every citizen who cares about being an asset that is in this community needs to hear. training with purpose.
Il tell you what for the tube size on scopes. Iv had 34mm 56 objective scopes. And my trijicon tenmile thats 30mm and 44mm obj is the brightest clearest scope ive ever used
Great ep boys.
Thanks my man!
On the mcx you have a green and black lower at one point… is that cerakote or just spray paint? Looks really awesome! Is it od green?
That is spray paint. If your serious about rifle then truly commit and paint it lol
Is their any room for modern fixed power scopes?
What is the stock at 10:44 on the MCX?
Thats is a bad to the bone product from A3 tactical, go check them out!! they have a ton of great stuff
@@barrelandhatchet Thanks, I've been looking for something like that for a while
Depends on the intended purpose but for general use any kind of red dot or iron sights. Both will get you to 300 meters which is max effective range of the 5.56 on a point target from a carbine.
Agreed, key word being effective. can you make hits, sure but the effectiveness of your capability is what you want to build upon. some tools work better than others in their own element and designated purpose. you can get by with a lot though. the key is investing in yourself, through training
The military gives the M4 Carbine a max effective point target range of 500m
@@davidb9323 true statement
@@davidb9323 It was 300 meters when I was in but those TMs change constantly. Wouldn't suprise me if it is 500 meters now and go to a different distance two years from now.
Those drills look awesome
"Eyeball shaking hands with the glass" 🤣
HAHAHA lol, My words just spill out sometimes, with no sense being made with my analogies.
several days ago, I came across a video that went over some sort of
workhorse m4/AR but it was deleted. might it have been you guys?
hmm yes that was us, that video is on our IG page in our IGTV section.
@@barrelandhatchet alrighty then, thanks and good to know!
So…I live in central FL. I was wondering if y’all have any recommendations for a range that allows for extended distances? All I can find are places that are 100yrds
I'm working on putting the sig 1-10 on an 18in. I'm sure it's more than I need, but I want it lmao
What ACOG was Eric running at 25:53?
My .02 Budget LPVO Sheppherd 1-8 for the 500ish range it's cheaper than their FFP but I like it better because the reticle is thinner and better. If you bump up to 1k Vortex Razor ii 1-6 or the Primary Arms 1-8 witht he Griffin Mil Reticle. Above that the Vortex Rzr iii 1-10 is really sweet. I've used it in many long range comps and made accurate hits out to 1200
we will actually be doing a dedicated RECCE rifle episode for episode 4 and we are currently playing with he 1-8 FFP from primary arms, the griff reticle.
@@barrelandhatchet Awesome, I'm hoping to make it out to JTAC next year for a PRS match of some sort to see if my long range gas gun skills translate to that style of match
@@jordansprad awesome yeah GCP holds good events!
Like yall, I have tried everything from emitter dots, holographic dots, magnifiers, prisms, lvpos, and higher mag scopes. I started and spent many more years hunting bigger game before I got into more "tactical" shooting. I am sold and switching most of my optics to 2x12 scopes with a top mount red dot. I have the heads up posture for the dot so I can be comfortable and shoot at speed. The magnified optic sits lower and I can get a good cheek weld for precision shooting.
I am wondering if yall have tried something higher mag than a 1 by x optic. If I am piggybacking a dot, I don't see the need for a 1 by x optic. I want a bigger objective lense and some more magnification for pid at range. Food for thought
The 1x prisms are good for those who want a dot, without the dot but also not the magnification of an ACOG style optic. The primary arms prism specifically we have heard works well with passive night vision techniques, but it is also personal preference for what your needs are. The 2-12 scope are super nice and it’s a great range of zoom. One of my favorites is the trijicon credo 2-10
@@barrelandhatchet Sorry, I meant a 1x4 or 1x6 or 1x8 etc. With a piggyback red dot, I am not seeing the draw for these optics anymore. I already have a 1x dot on top, so why start my scope there.
@@benmontgomery6612 hmm true, I have actually seen a lot of folks going to fixed magnification LPVO type optics.
I really liked that you guys didn't say that a person has to have X optic or else they fail. I hate when guys do a video like this and say you have to run this optic or this style or else you are wrong for it. Same thing in rifle calibers....
I have bad eyes even with glasses. I am concerned about identification, I need some sort of magnification. What is the best options for Fastest target acquisition. Considering eye relief, eye box and parallax. Budget max roughly 250. Thank you in advance
not gonna lie... 2:45 bugs me. I fully advocate bracing on something to make your shots more stable. but The guy is literally resting the suppressor on the hood. That literally throws your shots off (dont believe me? go lightly press on the end of your barrel and watch it deflect) and completely defeats the purpose of a free floated barrel... I dont know. I guess this comment is hopefully so the guy can see this and correct it for future shooting drills.
we are aware of it, and roy became immediately aware of it after the hood had a nice groove in it, sometimes in the heat of the drill you can make those basic simple mistakes. but that's why we train to make those simple mistakes less often. Thanks for the point out, its def something we have talked about after that drill session. :)
@@barrelandhatchet I would like to say, after re-reading my comment, it sounds a lot harsher than I meant it to be. It was a good video and I did appreciate it.
@@tallspy7150 ahahah no worries man, we know you were just looking out and we agree! Great minds think alike
I'm curious to know how close your poa, poi is with the drop points in something like an acog between a 13.7 and 14.5.. I run a 13.7 as my go to but havent made the leap into any kind of lpvo or prism optics because I have no idea how it would line up with the stuff in the reticle.... so I'm still rockin the dot and magnifier combo. If anyone could let me know any info on the matter itd be greatly appreciated.
What micro red don’t were you running piggyback on top of the lpvo in this video it looked very durable?
Man I would love to be able to spend some time over there with you guys.
Awesome
Is that guy with the Virtus trying to play billiard with his rifle on that car hood? Yeesh
Living life on the edge
Might be a noob question but what exactly is eye box
It’s your scope picture when looking in the tube. Some folks call it an eye box
B roll is 🔥
Thank ya thank ya!
Which ACOG model would you recommend?
ACOG is the best imo but eotech, aim point, and meprolight are all awesome. Need to get a magnifier for the eotech and an rmr to mount on top of my acog soon
Burris rt6 is an underrated lpvo on a budget
Hmm We will have to look into that one
What is that mount u have on your magnifier that goes with that aimpoint on that unity mount? And what magnifier is that? I like how it flips up and down but stays on the same plane as your red dot
It’s the unity fast riser and mount and I would assume the aim point magnifier based on the mount
Love this channel and love the seriously humble and respectful this comment section is. We need more channels like this! Maybe at some point you guys can hook up with John lovell on the Warrior Poet Society Network and get off garbage RUclips censorship!
the comment section has been incredible! we are seeing exactly what we hoped, where the comment section is just an extension of the episode and more conversations are happening between passionate folk and constructive learning is forming!
Is it possible to mount the holosun 509t on the acog?
May I get your opinion on this:
I am setting up a DD MK18 as a general purpose setup.
I am thinking of putting a LPVO (like the NX8 1-8). More for that PID, than “long range” shooting. Any have opinions on a LPVO on such a short setup?
I think personally if it were our setup, a red dot and a magnifier would be our go to. It’s lighter, and a little more reflexive. We would also put a riser combo with the optics. Shorter rail space is the killer on this. So lights laser and optics start to get really cramped. But also with a 10.3 your accuracy starts to spread out after 300. Not totally bad, but enough where 400-500 can be challenging.
@@barrelandhatchet appreciate the response!
@@ACGBLR we appreciate the support and the comment!
P.A. ACSS CYCLOPS are good optix.....I acquired my 1st gen on EBAY UNDER $200 W FREE SHIPPING.
@@robsnizzle79 that really is a steal!
ACOG w/45 Red Dot on a 12.5 Master Race! >
Which Acog reticle do you recommend?
I'm not the channel. But I recommend the Chevron or ACSS over crosshairs as they're a little more intuitive and require less mental processing at range for their BDC. That being said I was issued one so I'm slightly bias. Either way whichever one you train on will be king and you can get used to whatever pretty quickly. I will say that currently it's much easier to find crosshair Acogs slightly used and much cheaper than chevrons. The acss is even harder to track down then either.
@@highandloose7701 thank you, I greatly appreciate your time and feedback.
Do you need magnified optics to shoot targeta at 100 yard?
It depends on target size. Human size, no. MOA size target, maybe.
An unobstructed human size target no, but once cover comes into play, I would rather have it.
Just sayin', my grandfather DID use a hammer on wood screws.
I have a sig bravo 5 with an offset red dot. Prefer that over the acog with rmr
Most people have trouble hitting with ghost ring iron sights because they’re using them wrong.
Can we get a scope cam ?
We actually have been looking into that, do you have any recommendations for good scope cameras?
@@barrelandhatchet tactacam 5.0 is what I would use.
@@CoolAdam247 oh nice, we will check that out, thanks much!
Reflex are awesome and certainly have their place, but ive definitely started leaning heavily towards prism and LPVO on pretty much any rifle that isn't intended solely for in/around buildings.
Biggest problem ive found is the LPVOs are HEAVILY dependent on quality(price) before they can truly start encroaching on red dot territory at 1x, and doing what an LPVO really needs to do.
Very true and it all depends on what your expectations are for your tool, prism optics are becoming hot again
I mean leupold puts out a 1.5 to 4x for 250 bucks
@@mrs.vasquezz Agree. When true 1x is taken out of the equation, the options are completely different.
1x is the hardest part, by far
@@SCQT 1x isnt as important as you hear, BAC works with acogs, works with any other scope
@@mrs.vasquezz oh dang, what model?!
If I'm using my lvpo to hit something that's so far away I have to use the reticle to range it, I'm going to be at the highest setting. FFP adds too much weight and too little light transmission for my taste.
Yeah, at the end of the day personal preference is king
So basically buy everything. 🤙🏻
lol Yes. Honestly I would buy reflex for a short gun, a Prism for medium build like a 13.7, and LPVO for a 16 or 18 inch SPR.
Nice I agree. What do you guys think about larger magnification options like 3-18 and what reticules would suite a 5.56 best?
Really like the podcast. 👍🏻
I have personally fallen into the lpvo camp for a majority of my "tyrant killing" guns.
On paper I love the idea of a red dot and magnifier but in practice I do not prefer it to an lpvo. The magnifers always have abysmal fov and while it's useable I'd take a quality lpvo any day.
On the flip side I also love the idea of a lightweight acog with rmr but I hate the eye relief on that thing and in practice I find I like what my razor 1x6 brings to the table.
All work but for an all around let's go fight rifle I am strongly in the lpvo with canted dot. Heavier for sure but just fits my wants way more.
I also believe police should get lpvos. The information you can get is invaluable.
Thanks for another good one. Keep up the good work.
LPVO’s are a very valuable asset to have hence why the military is also shifting to them. And thanks so much for the support !!
Not to mention the value of etched glass so you don't have to worry about electronic malfunction
@@Expoundupon that is truly a very strong pro in terms of prisms
Camo & Bandana = Bad Ass
amen to that!!!
Red dot up to 300 yd. hold is roughly 12 in above target. But at 400 and 500?????? 3ft and 5ft hold overs respectively. Not impossible but not an “all day” shot
It does take a bit of time, luckily we are blessed to have a home facility that allows us to shoot distance weekly.
But agreed it’s not an easy thing to do, however with a bit of training and a lot of time behind the dot it can become something very feasible, in fact we stretched a holosun dot with the ACSS reticle system that is from primary arms.
Simple conclusion: No ONE is the best. It's all about anticipated combat distance. Close: red dots. Mid-close: red-dots with magnifier. Mig-long to long: LPVO. Extreme: Expensive stuff.
True I agree with that