What is a RECCE Rifle or GENERAL PURPOSE Rifle?
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
- What is a RECCE Rifle or GENERAL PURPOSE Rifle Hatchet Cast Episode 4:
Hatchet Cast Episode 4 goes over the mentality around general purpose and what is being called a "RECCE Rifle". In this Episode Roy and Eric discuss what RECCE is in a very basic description and talk about the driving factors behind this new trend in the community. Watch or just listen, and dive in with us as we break down the considerations for building a General Purpose or "RECCE" Rifle and help narrow buying decisions as well as identify personal reasoning for builds. Roy and Eric also discuss the importance of training and making yourself more capable and an asset to those around you.
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The mission dictates the gear. Luckily I'm a civilian, so I don't have a mission and I can buy whatever I want.
Yeah, this is big brain time.
I hate basement niggas saying what their misson entails
Hop... Y'all better sit down hop knows his shit
😤😤😤💯
My mission is acquiring flamin hot Cheetos from the gas station at 2am
I get my wife to paint cam' patterns. She's quite artistic. everything I do just ends up a pattern. she can legitimately make disorganized "patterns". Its a real skill.
Hahah nice nice, yeah man a solid paint job is a work of art!
So she's finally good for something
You mentioned at 16:40 that the GP rifle needs to be a "jack of all trades", which is apt because that is how Recon Marines define themselves. My actual recce rifle for First Force Recon was an M4a1 with an Acog and a KAC suppressor, covered in krylon spray paint. People put way too much stock into barrel lengths and optics when in reality the best GP or recce rifle is the one that can most effectively cover every potential element with the least concessions.
Dude that statement is so true
The ACOG is a phenomenal optic. I'd never used one before and using it and thinking of having an RMR on top as opposed to my Vortex III 1-10, I'm honestly tempted. I just wanna get something to cantilever it back some cause that eye relieve is balls.
@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY yeah the eye relief is trash, but the KRAM riser from weapon outfitters really helps out!
Well put, Marine.
@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY I never loved the ACOG. It just happened to be the lightest and most efficient optic for my mission. Half the weight of an Elcan or Eotech+magnifier, and no need to fiddle with inefficient magnification switching.
Now I use an LVPO. Our preferences evolve as our training evolves.
Magnification in urban environments is not just useful for PID or weapon ID, but precision in general. When your trying to line up a shot on a head ducking in and out of a window, even from just 30-50 yards, a little 3x bump makes such a difference (LE experience)
Thanks for the inputs, and also thanks for watching the episode!
Living in a 4 season area, I don't recommend painting the rifle for the seasons personally, paint it in a spring season color and get tape or wraps for the other seasons, just something you can get on and off quickly because weather always changes, it could have snowed the week before but then melted and now your rifle stands out if it's painted, that's just something I've tested out for my area specifically so this might not actually apply to everyone with 4 season areas
I live in Pennsylvania and we experience 4 VERY REAL seasons. Literally have experienced winters that reach -30F and then the next summer it’s 100F and humid as hell. Have always wondered about painting/ wrapping firearms because of this drastic environmental change so I really appreciate this input 🙏
@@devonfelix5943 im in PA as well, paint the rifle a flat grey base and do tans and greens and brown on top. Works in snow and grass and in fallen leaves
Yup PA here too and the last thing I want is to just keep piling on layer upon layer of paint. It can be winter and look and feel like spring/fall or it can be 2' of snow. It changes so drastically and so often the wrap idea is a solid one👌
I think browns, tans, and sage tones will always be better than black in terms of not standing out too much, however I live in the west where it barely rains so everything's just kinda bushy desert colored year round
@@bradbolluyt9569 yeah here in PA it can seem like the rainforest one week and the arctic tundra the next. It's a tough climate
Really like the perspective. Next year will be 10 years out of the Corps and while I realized along time ago that me getting involved in any conflict that involved me grabbing an AR is probably not one I want to be in, but having said that I like the capability aspect of a "Reece' or 'GP" because I live in the middle of a corn field but am in close proximity to a 300k city, a 16k town and a 70k suburb and all of these environments as well as farm fields present a myriad of challenges and distances which would have to be addressed if the boog happened
boom! your personal needs and environment dictate the GP you need!
I also appreciate your comment on commonality of firearms, and ammo. I really wanted a MCX, but I have enough parts in my basement to retrofit a good amount of my neighbors ARs should the need arise.
@@HHenry-tt1of yeah man it really is a factor to consider. Back end support
General Purpose rifle is a better descriptor then Recce. A brief google would show that GP rifle it’s a term that has been around for many years.
Yeah we had figured lol, it’s good to see. At the end of the day, it could be called whatever, but putting thought behind the build and not the fad, is the key.
I just call it combat rifle and laugh at the memes and flame over a word
@@aqualust5016 lol yeah, the words, are whatever, the lack of thought behind builds is what we hope can change
White cloth, cut a and wrapped around the rifle will work in winter as an alternative to repainting the rifle every season. Even the dark bits that show through will work to break things up, because even in winter an all white background is rare.
Great video. I rocked a Buttler Creek flip cap on my light in Iraq and it worked great. I even remembered to uncap it when I needed it, training pays.
One light that is low profile for the woods with lock-out tail cap and streamlined flow on the carbine is the Inforce WML Gen 2.
WLs are a liability if they easily get bumped and discharge.
Great content. Have multiple rifles with different barrel length for multiple situations. When I was on SWAT cleared rooms with a 16 inch rifle. I was also the paramedic on the team so a SBR or MP5 was much easier for my job assignment. Oh to have a 8 inch 300 blackout then.
Amen!, you can utilize the tools that is best for the job!
Thanks for making the green grass grow!
As an 0311 veteran, living in Florida, I have a 16 inch AR with LPVO (1x4) and offset red dot. I've never called it a recce rifle. I've always referred to it as a GPR/bug out rifle. It's unsuppresed but I do have a Witt Machine SME on it.
It is rattle can camouflage with local vegetation patterns.
Watching you guys kick around in my home turf makes me want to get my rifle built and painted even faster
Central CA here. We have the Sierra Nevada in our backyard so I often do my training up in the Sierra National Forest just outside of Yosemite. Lots of browns and greens and mixed veg. Lots of variety between 3-7k feet! Currently running a 16" 5.56 with 1-8x.
Hahaha yeah man, you need a GP setup for sure!! And remember distance can most of the time be your friend!
I grew up in that area too. Built a nice AR-15 with the same 1-8x LPVO setup. Rattle canned and all
Total Jewel. I like the highlighted notes about the urban environment. Personally I’d grab two guns one for “City” and one for the “mountains”!!
I’d love to see a video on gear supporting the GPR and “Go-Bag”!!
I think an entire episode on camouflage would be awesome. Both for kit/uniforms as well as weapons.
Just glad i finally found a podcast with ppl who also live in Florida!!
I feel like we deal with such a unique environment compared to the majority of other states. And it really doesn't get much coverage.
I’m in Georgia! My GPR is a 11.5 in pistol in 5.56x45 is my go to. But I have 2 another AR an a M4 both are Frankenstein builds that I love. I really enjoy your content, you men keep up the amazing work.
Thank you so much for being here and we love the sound of your builds. God bless you.
My do all rifle I used the Noveske 13.7" barrel with the Sig Sauer Tango-4 1-4 optic and an RMR on top of it.
The visuals on this is absolutely astonishing
Born and raised here in central Florida. This video was very helpful as far as giving me a better idea of how I want to build my rifle.
1 thing I've always thought about is that you really need to consider not just your environment but also the threats that you are likely to face because that's going to determine the encounters that you are likely to have.
So one of the things that I consider especially living in rural Nebraska is that here in the US while AR's and other military style rifles are getting more popular they aren't nearly as common as your typical Bolt Action Hunting rifle. That means if there ever was a SHTF scenario where people are shooting at each other we're pretty likely to see further engagement distances than we are typically used to seeing.
Granted it's going to depend a lot on what area you're in but my thought is that we would see a lot less run and gun and a lot more people taking 200-400 yard shots from cover using thier trusty old 30-06 or whatever happened to be in the gun cabinet. Especially when you consider that a lot of these people don't have several hundred rounds stockpiled so thier gonna be looking to conserve ammo by picking people off with 1 or 2 shots.
Yeah that is true. But from my experience, I have seen folks accuracy falter when the rounds come kicking back. I agree some or most engagements will be far. Especially based off your terrain. But yeah man thanks for posting!
The one comment I've heard that I'd consider a sanity check on how far you can engage a target was when a military buddy of mine said he could engage targets out to 500 yards/meters with the iron sights of his M4. That reminded me that I can't just rely on the most l337 gear, and that I have to get out there and train more wit the gear I do have. Now, gear can make it easier, but you still gotta be doing YOUR job WITH that gear.
Amen to that! We def preach that you are the asset, you are the investment. The rifle is just the tool. It always depends on the user to be able to use his or her tools no matter how advanced or rudimentary they are, to get the job done.
Every Marine qualifies at 500… I did it with iron sights. Yes I was prone and took my time aiming but not hard to do if you know your DOPE. I can crush targets at 5-600 using my LPVO.
I find myself obsessing about the exact right equipment to have and how it's set up. I find myself wasting a ton of time on the internet salivating over "gear" that would be "cool" to have. I appreciate your point that the person is the asset, and the gear is their tool. Great tools don't make an average joe into a carpenter or mechanic
@@waylonk2453 Time on the platform is not replaceable.
Yeah but shooting a static target is not the same as getting rounds on target during a fight. Even the Marine Corp admits that magnification increases the number of rounds on target at 500 yards when compared with irons.
You dudes are killing it!
Thanks so much for the support!!!!!
I hate to break it to y’all but I’ve been calling my 14.5” URGI w/ NF ATACR a “general purpose” rifle for some time now.
Dang it ya beat us to the punch. That’s awesome man, and that is a bomb proof build!
Thats what I called anything 13”-18” in barrel length when i was working in a gunshop back in 2017 before I heard everyone calling everything a ‘recce’ rifle. Legit was confused what everyone meant at first lol
@@rubenaguirre4537 nice nice, glad to see that GPR is making a comeback
You got any time behind the Vortex Gen III? I tried that and the ATACR at the store and figured the mild fishbowling (I still could care less about that, it's fine to me) and somewhat tighter eyebox would be worth it for an extra 2x (also the DMx reticle wasn't around then).
I'm actually kind of getting my ass chapped by the eyebox on this thing. I'd like your opinion if you've got time behind both.
@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY the ATACR and the razor 1-10 are both phenomenal optics, both have good eye relief, both expensive as balls, both heavy as all get out, I would recommend the 1-10 simply because of reticle design, however that is all personal preference. I would say the NF is much more rugged.
This is my new favorite channel for tactical and gear based videos
Just listened in on this. Good stuff. My "go-to" GP rifle is a 16" AR patterned rifle. Out here in my area of Texas, there's plenty of open space, and I want more velocity to reach out. But still at 16" vs say 18 or 20" it's still compact enough to traverse and use in some of the thicker brushy areas as well. With my can, it puts it at around 22" which is fairly long, but not unwieldy for open spaces. It has a 3x prism & dot sight on top, with light & IR designator. Where I differ from what you said about a dot sight on a prism, is I don't use the dot sight for CQB purposes. It's there for passive NV aiming. While I could use it for close quarters also, it's a little high on the platform for comfort, and instead I can just use the illuminated prism to super-impose on my target similar to a dot sight.
@@es4583 it's just preference really. I have LPVOs on other platforms also. Prisms are simpler in that there's no magnification settings to fiddle with, and are generally considered more robust, since there is no internal track (for the variable magnification) that could potentially fail somehow.
My "go-to" general purpose rifle, I wanted to be as simple and robust as possible. Once you get use to super imposing your prism reticle on target, it's just about as fast as a red dot. And it is as fast as an LPVO on 1x. If I really need to get a more magnified image for identification, than 3x can give me, I just use my 10x binoculars because odds are at that distance, I'm not planning to engage at that time and thus don't need my rifle on target for identification purposes.
In short, prisms are robust, simple, "set it & forget it" optics and I really like that about them.
I really like that you guys pointed out a difference between recce and GPR. Most people dont really understand what recce even is, how it really works, and why a recce rifle looks the way it does.
Urban LEO here, my issue is a 10in, suppressed with red dot and magnifier. 90% chance use will be in a house or apartment. My GP is the same thing but instead of a magnifier I have an offset 3x prisim. Better glass, better reticle, same weight (or less) and no hands off the gun. Works great! Recce has become 700yd capable guns. I can't even SEE 200yds where I live! Great Channel guys!
Just stumbled across you guys today. All I can say is wow you guys are great. Loved the discussion on this topic. Very much on the intellectual side of firearm loadouts. I couldn't agree with you more on general purpose rifle setups. Many things discussed in this video were on point. I've taken many of your ideas at put them to good practice. Keep this content cooking. I'll stay in the kitchen.
The Hornady Black 168 grain A-Max 308 and the 75 grain Hornady Black 556 with the interlock tip are my go to ammunition types
I have 14.5in for general purpose and a 18in 6.5 Grendel w/ Steiner PX4I 1x4 for longer range targets. The ammo choice makes a huge difference in terminal ballistics. That's been my experience.
I personally think with the testing the Marine Corps has done with the M27 and M38 DMR a 16" barrel is the happy landing spot. I think the 1-8 or 1-10 just opens up the possibilities and uses on a 16-20 inch gun properly set up.
TIIIIIIIILT!
You guys giving a shoutout to one of the greats was awesome to hear! Jocko is awesome for allowing John Stryker Meyer a slot to preserve those stories! SOGCast is on the fast track to being a national treasure!
Dude those men, were legends and their stories should be heard and told!
Guys love the content. I was an Infantryman for 14 years with deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. I ran a recon section for a ABCT. We did have some 110s on stock but we often didn't used them even if we had the distance to engage with them. Our job was to access and make recommendations and provide details of the environment. If the mission was SBF on soft targets we definitely would have ran the 110s as well as 240s. Not to mention we were focused on peer or near peer threat. we spent alot of time visually clearing an area. For tanks Bradleys and other armor. If it wasn't clear don't go there blow it up and go somewhere else. So yes we would choose a M4 with a 4 or 6x over a 110 with 10x. On a recce mission weight is the enemy. I don't feel like guys discuss and train passive aiming against a peer force. If you turn on your peq and everyone is using NV it is no different then a ND on your white light. I think guys should look into thermal and NV clip on. Great way to engage and not actively aim with IR. Guys keep up the good work.
This RECCE stuff is just the current fad. I wish people would talk about mission critical equipment for a reconissance roll. I was a 19D and the last piece of the puzzle was how our carbines where set up. First considerations would be water, optics, Commo, maps, nav, weather proofing etc... That's not sexy to talk about, but without those things you are just a patrolling rifleman. On the other hand it's good that civilians don't have access to secrets of the trade.
Brother I agree I see a bunch of IG warriors with their kit load out but there is no water. We shoot battle rattle matches at our home range. We establish a minimum load of 5 mags water and IFAK
@@adamgriffin Although you've learned a thing or two in the military, don't talk down to civs. We're all in this together, eh?
@@waylonk2453 My bad guys I missed the part where Adam said it was good that civilians don't have the secrets of the trade. I strongly disagree with this opinion. It is the right of the people to keep and bear arms. I believe they should also be proficient with their arms. I work with a group of vets in south east Ohio, our goal is to be that group that helps teach TTPs and other skills to the public. We are of the people for the people by the people.
The engagement zones (Ranges) are what defines tactics, ammo, optics, etc. The enemy defines the ranges one engagement is forced into. CQB 0-50m, H2H, standing, running , mid range 50-300m, longer 300-500m. A carbine can of 5.56 can do most of that with a 16" barrel. What ranges do YOU expect to work in?
I’ve done CQB for many years using a 20” M16a2-4 so a 16” don’t seem unwieldy to me except in a vehicle
8:28 I notice what you did with your camouflage clothing, using the multicam to blend in with the litter on the forest floor and the darker pattern (tiger stripe?) on your upper body to blend in with the understory. Wicked smart idea, you prioritize the "first-cool" function of camouflage before the "second-cool" of having a matching outfit.
In your same area. My go-to is and has been for quite a while now a BCM 14.5. Have an Aimpoint Micro on a MI QD mount at lower third height, DD fixed sights, a Surefire X300 at 12 o’clock, and a BFG Vickers sling. It’s basically a copy of Larry Vickers training carbine. I’ve reconfigured it multiple times but always come back to this setup. For a muzzle device I run a Silencerco flash hider to QD my Omega 300 can.
There’s no magnification, but as it basically just stays by the bedside, don’t really need it. I have other ARs for distance, but with the basic red dot, I can get out to 300 yards on a standard silhouette pretty consistently.
As for paint, it’s been painted multiple times. Right now it’s mostly black, as I’ve tried to go back to black. I’m sure it will get painted again at some point, but right now it looks like it has some sort of skin disease. 🤣
Every discussion should have B-roll this good
It seems as shtf looms closer that many of us should be training in the psuedo sniper role and have dmr type rifles if we plan to bring the fight to our enemies and survive
I’m glad I found your channel- I had watched Garand Thumbs video on the topic and while it was entertaining and informative it didn’t relate to my situation. East coast of central Florida is certainly different from the Cascades. I can’t wait for your equipment videos as it relates to our environment!
Thanks for the work you put into your video
My set up has changed drastically moving from the SeaTac area to Fairbanks, AK. I'm actually using a rifle again for one, instead of a PCC. I have a Magnum revolver in my kit now too.
What you carry is dependent on where you're at. I'm actually less concerned about 2 legged critters than I am the 4 legged ones. I was out shoveling snow and had to completely stop because of a moose.
Wishing you safety up in Fairbanks! Absolutely beautiful area, but winter up there was a big wake up call for me
For the woods of South Carolina...
My GP set up:
16" 5.56 w/ 77gr SMK ammo
1-6x lpvo w/ 45° rds
MOUT set up (for the 'burbs):
12.5" 5.56 w/ 64gr SP ammo
1x prism optic
very capable tools and setups! what matters is the thought you put into it for your environment and life
Lol i hope you have 2000 rounds of that stuff cause you'll be going through 4 mags in 10 minutes in a real battle.
Really good content here. I like this episode and the one previous about one warrior one sword. Working on getting my AR squared away currently and am definitely thinking about it through the lens of a general purpose rifle. It makes no sense to me why so many people have 3-4 rifles none of which are zeroed properly, have a sling, light, etc. when they could have 1-2 that are good to go.
Hey, everyone is on their own journey and it sounds like you are on a good patch. Prioritize functionality and purpose. Your are doing well!
Thank you guys for all the hard work; it’s evident in the content!
12.5 5.56 with an LPVO builds have been my favorite as a general purpose.
My Fav 2 rifles
13.7” Type-A 5.56 with T2 with magnifier
16” DD 5.56 with 1-6x Razor
They seem to fit best of both worlds 💪🏻
Great video content behind your podcast guys. Just read across the fence today (received it for Christmas). Amazing that they were carrying 600 plus rounds in 20 round mags. I always carried a minimum of 6 mags.
I run a 14.5 here in Colorado with a QDSS NT4 can. ACOG and RMR on top is where I am going. Have both but haven’t mounted them together yet. Love the content and found you from Ben with Wise Men Co.
keep up the great work gents.
Liked the content definitely subscribing. I agree totally on looking at environment and also mission specific. I live in Eastern Oregon in the Blue Mountains, but we travel a lot to Portland and some of the other cities in the region. I like the 11.5 with a red dot for hd and being in the city. Also barrier blind ammo is important to me for those scenario’s and I like a hot load with a 75 grain Gold Dot. But for GP I like a 16” mid length gun, stainless if that’s your thing, 1-8x lpvo because in the west we have some good distances. 77 grain sierra tmk loaded hot will get it done out to 600. Of course lights on everything. Maybe suppressors someday 🤤
Those setups sound like you have put some thought into them based off of your criteria and setting, that is the whole point of this video. Also a suppressor is an amazing addition to your tool box! Great job man
These videos have me missing my LRS days. It is nice to see more stuff on Recce loadouts and what not because I feel like in the civilian world, a home defense rifle and a general purpose rifle are the two essential set ups you'd need. I think people stress too much about so many specifics when a recce rifle is literally just meant to be general purpose. All you need is a quick means of transitioning from a close range optic to your magnified view, a barrel length long enough to give you at least a range of 300 meters, a sling and a weapon light. You wanna be able to shoot from any common range, secure your rifle and see in the dark. Oh, and a suppressor so you're not giving away your position with muzzle flash and making it harder to pinpoint your sound signature.
What LRS Unit were you with? LRSC was really the best unit of the 7 units I was in.
General purpose=16" AR with Daniel Defense rear irons, red dot with a light. Gives me good practical accuracy and velocity to 300yds, lite weight. My DMR for longer ranges is my BARRETT REC 10 with Primary Arms 5x ACSS scope. Gives me practical accurate power to 600yds with pretty descent ranging capability . Of course I have shot these rifles much further and they are capable of it but realistically this is what I use them for. Great video.
At the end of the video there, that gentleman's hands and neck were popping in that environment. Human skin is a target indicator. Good video.
Very true gotta make sure that gets covered.
@@barrelandhatchet try to find some sniper manuals, they are great for camo techniques and movement manuvers. Look for the target indicators, usually in the camouflage and counter sniper chapters. You can find PDFs of The Ulimate Sniper and the American Sniper Association Sniper Manual is wonderful, but i don't think it's easy to get as a civilian due to keeping tactics away from bad guys. A good manual will discuss the science of how eyes and the brain work.
I would like to see a episode regarding combat shotguns in Urban and Woodland environments. Iwas stationed overseas in woodland areas and we had carried combat shotguns to supplement the rifles
something i wanted to throw out there, around 19:20 there’s mention of how engagements will typically be within 100-200 yards in an urban environment but it’s good to keep in mind that urban doesn’t necessarily mean CQB there are certainly chances for long range engagement as well and being prepared for them is something i work into my philosophy about building a GPR.
That's why running something more than 556 is desirable. 308 in a 16 inch barrel still holds a lot of power and accuracy when pushing out to 200+ yards.
Keep this quality up and this will be one of the top tier gun podcasts. Amazing work brothers.
Agreed 100%. I'm so tired of seeing videos about how to set up a carbine for CQB and flat range work. This is great content with the terrain and how they have their rifles configured.
Was 18 first GPR was a 16in LE6920 upper on a Anderson lower upgraded to a Midwest quad rail got an aimpoint pro and a surefire m600 even painted the receiver tan for that mw2 look still have it still love it great for beating up at the range.
awesomeness
Sorry for the probably long comment but I really enjoyed the video. I’m just going to dump all my thoughts here. Great perspective and information that got me considering my overall kit. I’m young and just able to legally get into firearms and things of the sort and I really want to start off on the right foot. I have access to information available on the internet folks didn’t have even 10 years ago let alone anything before that, so I can avoid a lot of the mistakes and pitfalls that others have made before me just by being willing to listen/read up on the subject. I like the casual tone of this video and the natural flow of y’all conversation. You didn’t really use mil terms I didn’t know or got super technical, which is greatly appreciated.
My “recce” or more accurately general purpose rifle is a 13.9 ar with a lpvo and other necessary attachments like a light & sling (don’t quite have the money for night capabilities yet so not worried about that atm). Also being in Florida but more towards the south end and on the coast, we really have swamps and dense flora everywhere. I wanted something shorter to maneuver through all that chaos but also robust to take the beating that going through sub-tropical jungle entails, so things like the hand guard are a bit thicker to handle the beating the poor thing is going to take. There’s also plenty of urban area especially on the coast. But since urban isn’t really cqc here, something like a 10 inch barrel wouldn’t benefit me as much. The buildings are all spaced out and hardly anything is over a story high. Something else to not is that building interiors here aren’t cramped death funnels like they are in my hometown in nyc. Damn near everything is open concept so an ultra compact platform isn’t necessary for this reason also.
Overall I think I’m in a good spot gun setup-wise but there’s always more to learn/change, and definitely after you take it outside to run it. So if anyone has any tips or pointers no matter how obvious they might be to you, I’d be happy to hear em. Thanks y’all
Great discussion! I think it’s always best to build what suits your application. Really helps separate RECCE and general purpose rifle. Appreciate the equipment/setups breakdowns.
Truly appreciate your guys style of content, very cool cinematic video with awesome context.
Calling in from Minnesota, we just paint warm weather patterns and use that army gray/green on the receivers, we then wrap the stock and forgrip with white cloth of our choosing ( I use old strips of wife beaters).
Ended up going with a Block II setup with an ACOG and offset RMR as my general purpose. Was torn between that and a URGI with the main two considerations being the rail and barrel. Block II really only won out cuz I happened to find a fairly cheap milsurp upper, but the accuracy of the socom barrels and the extreme durability of the rail and barrel cannot be understated. Honestly that barrel will probably outlive me lol, the ruggedness of everything makes it very worthwhile as a general purpose/ SHTF rifle. On some level I still do wish I did a URGI due to the weight considerations, but I'm sure the more I train with what I have the less I will be as concerned about the extra few ounces. Both setups are fantastic and you can't really go wrong with either, even if the pic vs mlok arguments still continue.
URGI weight saving works out to be a little over two ounces. It if really went south, a Block II will still be going bang while Mad Max rides the Fury Road. They are tough. I think you chose very well.
Hmm, never heard of you guys. Just found your channel via the algo. I like the content and appreciate how it's nothing but B roll footage instead of just having the camera on you two in a room. Good stuff, subbed.
Wow thanks much for the support!!
Great video. I’m currently building a GP rifle for myself and wife. The challenge is the strength difference. My rifle will have to be used for longer ranges and hers for 300 meters. When crap hits the fan some of us will need to arm our families. Each of them need capability. Train your families!
A 14.5-16” carbine with a simple red dot is a great girl gun
@@jasminebebe3455 I bought a 12.5 barrel. That should be good for at least 600m. It will more than likely have T2 and Surefire Scout.
Food, too. Lots of food brother
ruclips.net/video/-6PqrJJ5inY/видео.html
@@andyrey8536 That would be pretty optomistic.... Call it 3-500 maybe? I shot 500 in the Marines with a 20" M16a2 but with my 16" rifle I can do that although I have an LPVO on it. Red dot on a carbine is a 300 yard gun until you go out and prove me wrong lol. Best of luck to you my friend.
For WV/PA mountains I run Flectarn, OD Green. 16 inch AR with a red dot and magnifier, or a 1-6x perfect for the tight woodlands we have. 62 to 77gr bullets.
That is a good choice for the heavier grain to buck that wind. That setup sounds great for your environment
I’m in Greene co. Pa. What part of pa/wv you from?
@@JBsX39 I do most of my rucking, and shooting in Monongahela National Forest WV.
@@JBsX39 I’m from Allentown, PA. How’s it going boys?! Allentown is very diverse in that it’s a “bigger” city but it’s surrounded by woods and small towns with a lot of farm land. For instance I work in Kutztown 6 days a week so my “preparedness mentality” has to kind of be a jack of all trades approach because I could end up being in quite a few different environments in only a few miles. What’s it like where you guys are?
@@devonfelix5943 where I am at in Greene co. I’m about 50 miles from Pittsburgh so with in 50 miles it can be major city slightly urban or the most rural back gravel road so I’m in the same boat. I have multiple set ups for multiple settings. But my wife’s family is from some town near Allentown.
Ruger AR556. Carbine length quad rail, good Blue force gear sling, Primary Arms 2.5x prism. My Houston setup on a budget lol! Surprisingly, concerning optics the 2.5 illuminated prism gives you a red dot like setup with both eyes open at close range, but MOST ranges you’ll find yourself at (in a rifle use emergency) is mainly highways, and alleys between buildings, and outside a mall in the parking lot…. A lot more open space than you’d think with very little civilian needed CQB scenarios. If you have to hit the urban scenario, it transitions easily.
I definitely have to go with a P&W 14.5 with dot and magnifier for the Texas panhandle and into Oklahoma, which is where I am most of the time. Still able to engage well out past 500, but able to flip it to the side whenever. I’m also within an hour of a major population center, so work around vehicles and buildings isn’t as far fetched as it could be.
You guys should make this a podcast, if you haven’t already. Much easier to listen to than watch, as I can still do work that way
we are actually going to be also putting the episodes on Spotify here soon
Great video! Just discovered you guys. Would love to learn more about navigation and communication 🤙
Hmm that would be a good topic for another episode for sure! And thanks for the support
Thanks for all your insight, looking forward to the additional info in your series ! Love the Ground Branch extraction. Can you make a video on knowing when to replace parts? Like diagnosing failures/ barrel wear ?
I enjoyed this, especially after watching Garand Thumb's two videos on recce. In my part of SC, I'm leaning toward a 300BLK and Trijicon MRO in consideration of the mix of rural and suburban with the added benefit I can hunt deer and wild hog more effectively than with 5.56 and with less weight than lugging a .308.
Imo not a ton of reasons to go with a 300 blk over a 7.62x39. There are a few but not many.
@@jshaw1503 Yep. I thought about that. Picking the caliber often means one is picking a specific platform, AR vs AK. While 7.62x39 is cheap and plentiful, generally both the rounds are larger and loaded mags are heavier than their 300BLK counterparts, although something like a Galil Ace/Gen 2 makes me reconsider the round. The VSO Gun Channel has a decent comparative analysis - ruclips.net/video/8oHeXFUCOns/видео.html
I have 4 seasons. Environment is small urban moving into immediate rural then heavy single canopy woods. Mission sets are primarily perimeter security w/roving intermittent patrol. Solved weapon set ups by using 3 separate SOPMOD configurable rifles painstakingly 🙄 to mirror each others overall ergos & ammunition performance diversity. Realizing not everyone can or should employ multiple rifles, how do you guys value the idea of rapid reconfigurable to mission specific components. Video shows removing direct thread can in the field is prompting my interest in your viewpoint.
Outstanding content FYI 👍
I have a SBR MK18 and for me and my environment that is perfect, I live in a medium sided city where my maximum engagement would be 200-300 yards. I have a red dot and a 3x flip to the side magnifier on my rifle and if that cant get the "job done" when I'm in the woods driving around I always have a 6.5 bolt gun I can fall back to.
Just stumbled onto this video, and it's great! I live in New Mexico, so we have very long distances, and high winds, so short barrel length is more for concealing the weapon before deployment in my AO. I've got to figure out my systems and run optics. If you could address maybe the other end of the spectrum with being stuck engaging at distance. I know generally you evade at distance, buy if your holding a position you have to engage and I'd rather keep them at distance. You may have addressed this in another vid. Gonna check the rest of your series. Thanks for the content/info!
Yeah we can def talk about that. We also want to talk about kinetic energy on targets at distance, but yeah man that is awesome about the open range space and thanks for the support!!
My personal builds(As I have multiple); is a 10.5 or 11 inch 300 blkout with a rugged sub. 20 inch (or mk 12) 5.56 with a 1-6 lvpo. You can easily carry one shouldered and on backed. Backup side iron sights on both. Prism all the way because you aren't going to always have batteries. Anyways... my opinion. Florida as well
Kinda curious what yalls credentials are.
Ultimately it doesn't matter, yall speak well and I agree with everything, but curiosity is getting the better of me.
I was zeroing my new Primary Arms PLX the other day and attempted to use my pretty nice Carl Zeiss 10x50 binoculars to check my hits. Come to find out the 8x on the optic was far better to glass with. After using a red dot for awhile I'm def always going to have a scope on my GP gun.
Good shit, my go to is a solgw 13.7 suppressed with a dot on a unity fast mount with dual IR light and laser. It's been an ongoing project of mine for about 5 years or so trying different barrel lengths and setups and this is where I landed. For my area it's a very well rounded setup. Only thing I may add is a magnifier or something.
Awesome talk. Appreciate ur guyzes thoughts. I'm a born & raised Cali boy ( I know rt.... Cali😕 ) so much to hate out here but equally so much other stuff we love, that's why we stay. But anyway, love painting my guns!! Pistols, rifles, gear. My lady doesn't get it at all. LOL. I agree with alot of what u boys touch down on. I run prisms, LPVO's all with BUIS. ( Zero irons first, mount optics & zero those, then I zero the offset reds if they have em. Then leave them puppies bee. ) My favorite build rt now is a 13.7 pin & welded in 5.56 1:7 twist. Lucky for me I stock piled 75 & 77 gr years ago. It's got a platinum series 1-8 by Primary Arms FFP and when I really wanna stretch it's legs out I screw on the tribe multiplier and it turns into a 2-16. I love that build !! U guys should play around with something like that. Keep up the good work
thanks so much for the support and your love for freedom! keep it up stay strong and continue to build up the community
Great information! Hope you guys definitely more. Especially on the basics of marksmanship and SUT
ITs definitely something we will consider for future episodes! thanks so much for the support and have a great rest of the year!
This production value is awesome, bout to binge all of your videos
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
At Ft...moore(benning)your 1st iteration of qualifying (rifle) imclided iron sights to 300. Then w same course of fire & any optics. Just some practice learn it, love it, get good at it
Just found y'alls channel. Enjoying the prospective on things. Also the background videos are cash (I mostly just listen to the episodes).
that is awesome to hear! thanks so much for your support!
Between this video and the Recce/SPR video I have a ton to say, but this is a difficult forum for that so I will just toss my GP rifle build into the mix.
BCM "Recce 14" which is a 14.5" with a cold hammer forged barrel, mid length gas system, and 13" Mlok rail.
Surefire 3 Prong SOCOM Muzzle device pinned and welded to keep from having to give the ATF any more money than I have already had to.
Magpul 2 point sling (I forget which specific model but I'm not all that impressed with it and will be changing it out soon)
Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6 LPVO in a Geissle mount
Surefire Mini Scout light mounted in a BCM offset mount which puts it at about the 1 or 2 o'clock on the rail.
Surefire SOCOM556 RC-2 Suppressor
I have nods but I haven't added a laser yet. I don't know which way I am going to jump on that.
I could make up a bunch of BS about why I chose that barrel length or whatever but it breaks down to this. I don't like AR pistols for much and I didn't want this rifle to be an NFA item. So, I went with 14.5" and added the longer muzzle device to make it non NFA. Additionally, in my 22 years in the army as an infantryman and other jobs, I did a lot of dismounted patrolling with a 14.5" M4 and was perfectly comfortable with it. I can get good hits with her out to at least 600m (Although... if you're conducting a MAC V SOG style Reece... why the hell are you shooting at something 600m away?) and possibly farther but I don't have a range nearby that I can stretch out past 600. Essentially, this is just my trusty Army M4A1 with a can and a Vortex Razor.
I went with the Razor Gen II because I wanted to have the capability that comes with an LPVO and I like the forgiving eye box of the Razor. I am not a huge fan of it being a 2nd focal plane reticle but I only run it at 1 or 6 power so it's not a huge deal. Usually, I keep it at 1. Combat engagements in a thickly wooded area are not going to be super long range, certainly not 600m so I keep the LPVO dialed to where I am mostly going to use it.
What do I not like about it... with all that crap on it, it gets heavy AF. Not so much that it affects my ability to carry it, but I would NOT want to clear a bunch of rooms with it or spend all day on the range doing up drills with it. (Yes, smart asses, I go to the gym)
I also don't like how nasty it gets when I run it suppressed. I had a training day this summer and it took me days of scrubbing to get it as clean as I wanted it. Yes, I know I'm anal retentive about clean weapons... so sue me.
I am interested in checking out a 12.5 or 13.7 inch barrel to see if shortening the barrel up will make the weight a little easier to bear since I have the same suppressor on my 11.5 and have no problems with it, weight wise)
Anyway, I hope this helps contribute to the conversation.
For me personally and this is just coming from a dude who's been to alot of amorers classes and been wrenching on ARs for quite some time now. Doesn't make me anything I just have a good amount of knowledge of the rifle and the cartridge and both their capabilities itself. My "go-to" rifle now is a 14.5 mid length gas system. Running a fixed 3x prism. It's still pretty short and I can make hits out to 350 yards no problem. My thing I try to tell folks building their rifles is pin your gas blocks on. I know people who have theirs attached with set screws and companies like BCM use red locktite and set screws as a industry standard. The rifle was designed to have the gas block pinned to the barrel. I've seen so many set screw gas blocks just loosen up and move forward turning the rifle into a expensive and frustrating single shot. If you want a BOMBPROOF setup in my opinion the gas blocks gotta be pinned to the barrel. I'm a fan of the geissele super gas block. Honestly I'm still a fan of the traditional A2 front sight base. They can be shaped into a very nice durable lo-pro gas blocks or just run it with traditional handguards. I've got some non free floated rifles that still shoot lights out. Keep the rifle as lightweight and as simple as possible. Some optics, especially LPVO's are extremely heavy for what you get vs a 2x8 or 2x10 or fixed prism sight, or a dot and magnifier although they are heavy as well. I usually prefer running either a 1x red dot or running a fixed power or 2x7x32 or 2x10x32 as you get the same magnification with alot less weight. 2x close up is still quite easy to use. Your milage may vary and I'm not anyone special.
I have only two lowers, one is a PSA with an Elfmann and the other is a complete LWRCi M6IC DI 16” with a 1-10 LPVO (want to add a solar backup mrds)
My lightweight BA barreled 14.5” P&W Aero upper is what I put on the PSA lower. I run either a tube red dot or EOTech XPS-0 and 3x magnifier. My light is Valhalla tac baldr 18350 w/ODS and Modlite PLH-V2 head. I run a Tier 1 Citizen bungee sling and magnet sling wrap I bought from Warrior Poet.
I am considering running an ACOG or 3x/5x prism and solar mrds to be able to run without batteries for my GP and maybe upping my Recce to an MPVO/solar mrds.
I mainly have built my rifles to be General Purpose because I hope to buy binoculars for PID/recon. I am not sure which rifle I’d grab in TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenarios each has plusses and minuses. LWRCi is heavier but built by them and I know it will function whereas I have yet to shoot my lightweight build.
LPVOs aren’t useless, but they only really excel in DMR type rolls. They don’t perform well when it rains, in near-far-near shooting, under NODs, they’re heavy, etc. If you’re actually doing “recce” then you have observation equipment in your ruck and all your rifle needs is a magnifier or a fixed scope in the 3x to 6x range w/ an offset or piggyback RDS. If sniping / counter-sniping is on the menu then bring a dedicated rifle because in recce a gun is a defensive tool used to get you home.
LPVOs are the Jack of all trades. Does everything well enough but doesn’t excel at anything else
People generally see a few videos or posts on reddit and decide that's what they need and there's no other way around it. Not alot of people deviate from the mainstream spectrum of kit setups
I just moved to Naples Florida in December last year. Been looking for a place to train. I have 2.5 acres and am going to set up a basic range just to get some lead out. 16” Ranier Arms with CMC trigger 1-10 Razor (should have just got the 1-6 Razor) offset rmr rm09, surefire df600 basic sling that works great for me oh and the razor is sitting in some gucci scalar works mount. (Should’ve saved the money and just got the ADM with clam shells) it’s been through a dozen different setups. But it’s finally done. Except the 1-10 will end up on my AR10 and I haven’t decided whether or not to go with the Razor 1-6 or the new Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 compact. I love the reticle. But I think the simple razor 1-6 would be fine as well and I love the bright dot. Ughhhhhh decisions
Between you guys and dirty civilian, yall are covering some great subjects.
How tf did I only see this channel now.. dope vid gentlemen. 👌
Great video and I personally have to change up my go too this year. I moved from an urban environment where I felt comfortable with a 16" 5.56 AR out to 5-600m to now I moved to a mountainous area where an engagement can easily be out too 800m, plus it can get pretty windy over here. Ik their is some Gucci 5.56 loads that do well to those distances but I don't have good access to those, so I'm looking in the direction of a 16" .308.
Topic: Suppressors vs Flash Hiders vs SMEs vs BCFs vs Muzzle Brakes
When you know you can drop a comment before you watch the video, because it gonna be fire, go ahead and hit that like button.
i subbed as soon as you said “i can throw a football over them mountains” 😂
Great discussion guys, thank you.
Hahaha my man!
One thing I would disagree with was that the short barrels are ideal for a city. Sight lines in cities are much further than many people think. Here in phx I can regularly see thousands of yards up and down streets
Ok that is a very good point and a fair case. I will say something to think about is the probably and majority of your distances you will be engaged in. But yeah seeing down roads you can def see far in those linear danger areas
@@barrelandhatchet Agreed. Especially within the city missions could dictate perhaps pistols or or concealed rifles even or anything between. More important than the rifle for recce would be key items such as notepad or observation equipment like spotting scopes, cameras, etc and most important would be an understanding of what you're actually doing.
Good point. As a countryman I always thought short rifles were for urban dwellers or the range.
Also if you’re in the city, chances are you will be on the streets with plenty of range still available. Need more maneuverability? Shorten your stock. I think either 14.5 or 16in is ideal.
I’m running a 16” 5.56 with a holographic sight and I couldn’t be happier. I think the only thing I’d add is a G33 magnifier.
That serves an great purpose from CQB to 300 / 400m
Try shooting a dot back to back with a scope0
@@mrs.vasquezz easy dubs
Same, 16 inch DDM4 V7 + exps3-0 + g33.
Good vid, lots of good chatter , good ideas ;my first ST was//is civi version Xm177E2 ;it's my CQB stick all spec with tritium sights ; am doing a 20" H bar DMR & my GPR is a 16" m3 with Bushy 1 -4 tac 30 ; these will do everything I 'll ask of the 5.56
I was recon platoon while stationed in Vicenza years ago. I never heard the term recce until I did some training with the Brits. Pretty common now.
I've had a few different platforms that I considered my "general purpose rifle" over the years, most recently I've settled on a PCS33 (Hk93 clone from Parabellum Combat Systems) that I've made work for just about any realistic scenario I can think of, it isn't perfect by any means, but it's incredibly reliable and accurate, and I've managed to add the accessories I need to work with the rest of my kit.
I use a 14.5 Geissele rifle with a 1-6 and offset red dot (with a riser, helps get it above my scope for peripheral vision and passive aiming) just seems to be the best overall setup honestly. I use my LPVO on 1x most of the time, but if i need more i have it. Precision is a big deal, magnification is MANDATORY
I live in fl as well and i built out a lwrc with a lpvo as a multi purpose rifle because its just versatile. So definitely agree with what you said. Keep up the good content. If you are in central florida would love to meet you guys and hit the range with some drills.
That rifle setup sounds solid. We train at a facility called JTAC ranch. Check out their website jtacranch.com
They are a private facility that requires you to be a member, I’m pretty sure the memberships open back up in June, so I would def keep an eye out for that. They do offer performance classes though that are open to the public