Stopping the Opponent from Winning | The Command Zone 345 | Magic: The Gathering Commander EDH
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
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Show Notes:
MTG artist (and avid Commander player) Jesper Ejsing joins the show to talk about how to secure victory by preventing, blocking, or otherwise stopping your opponents from winning.
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What we talked about during THE END STEP:
Bird Watching:
en.wikipedia.o...
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Where to find our guest online:
Jesper Ejsing
www.jesperejsin...
Instagram: @jesper_ejsing
Get a copy of Jesper's artbook "Elsewhere"
caurette.com/en...
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Hearing Josh say "all 25 of my commander decks" made me think its be great if Josh and Jimmy did a video tour of their respective decks like the one dj from jumbo commander did? Just a sweet thought
I love when DJ does the deck videos
@@michaelgierusz5754 yeah is nice to get insight into what they currently play outside of their content
I would love to see their collection of decks. And seeing 25 copies of vedalken orrery in them :P
That would be awesome!
@@michaelgierusz5754 thanks brah
A lot of these principles are used in CEDH deckbuilding and playstyle as well. Fantastic episode!
Hello Playing with Power!
I love your videos
Sup PWP! Glad to see you here.
@@somedudeontheinterwebs45 Hi! Thanks! I've always loved the Command Zone! I watch all of their episodes.
@@danielaserkoff7746 Thanks! We really appreciate it!
I was wondering with just how good Jespers deck was
“Take away their will to live” Jesper went from 0 to Bond villain REAL quick
He seems to play with the Competitive Meta
I just get that when playing high and your against 3 other stax decks.
Anytime someone beats me like this I go eat a tasty bratwurst and wash my hands. Really get a good lather up, you can't be too clean
Veektor his deck isn’t nowhere close to a competitive meta deck.
Junbo Commander why did you take the picture and name of Jumbo Commander? It’s a little bit creepy.
there is a saying about hate bear decks and stacks decks that i feel like it fits here. "pretend the every deck is a car. your opponents have formula 1 cars and nascar cars while you have a tractor. So what you do is cover the whole track in manure so that all the super fast cars either slow down or lose control while not effecting your tractor"
I don't know where you get your sayings, but I want in.
Omg I love it!
From now on, as I pull out my Zur deck, I will tell my opponents they are about to run a race in shit.
"Cards that say you win the game are a way to win."
-Jimmy Wong
Is this the MtG equivilant of "People die if they are killed"?
I use two cards that say "I win" are Simic Ascension and either Lab Man or the Jace of the same vein.
The floor here is made out of floor.
@@comradecameron3726 : Are you a Nightwish fan, by chance?
Because if not, that's a hell of a coincidence, lol.
@@isaiahwelch8066 was gonna ask him soon as I seen it! 🤣
haha! Josh gets SO SALTY over blood moon. I've never seen him like that :D
Indeed. Just run more basics. I run 16, 24, or 32 basics in my 3 color decks. Basic lands are really powerful lands in commander.
Blood Moon is a terribly designed card. Go Josh!
Blood Moon impact almost exclusively greedy mana base: you can play more basic lands, you can play artifact ramp, you can play mana dorks.
It's not unbeatable.
Also, it was designed for 1 vs 1. Please remember that not every card is designed for EDH so don't say it's "bad designed" cause you don't like it or it's not for EDH in mind.
He ignores the fact he can still play mana rocks.
I play RDW Krenko since it is cheap to build and I wanted to get back to magic again and my coworkers love it (it is a bit unique to just play against tribal face smasher i guess), but telling them at the table, when they were happily fatching their none basics, that "I run blood moon in this deck btw" made their smiles freeze for a second :D
PS: In that game I did pull it out but it was far too late but the table was actually praying for blood moon since one guy went completely off :D. So yeah, I think it is actually pretty nice card to have around to keep cocky mana bases in check.
Jesper talking about draining all joy from a person is somehow very wholesome
I think its because he was smiling.
Not w some
tiny brain: win
small brain: don’t let the opponent win
big brain: don’t lose
GALAXY BRAIN: don’t let the opponent not lose
Galaxy brain. Ha! That's mine now
Heh. About the same as getting a "Never Don't Give Up" tattoo
Soooooo... make sure the opponent wins?
My tiny-brained third-turn Kozilek is just fine.
Don't let the opponent not let me not loose.
The Command Zone :
Previous Video : How to make your deck more unique.
Current video : What cEDH interactions staples you should include in your decks ^^.
I'm a bit sarcastic, because I really love your content guys and i'm convince everyone should had more interactions to have more fun in the casual environment.
people are sleeping on janky-looking cedh staples
They aren't janky, they are cedh staples because they are the most efficient at either getting your own strategy going or stopping your opponents
@@jonlamoreaux1889 indeed; janky *looking* . chain of vapor doesn't seem competitive to your average casual player at first glance.
I too built Melissa’s Karametra Enchantress deck after watching her appearance in game knights and it’s still one of my favourite decks. It inspired me to make my own Enchantress decks and they are now my all time favourite flavour of EDH decks to play!
I also built an enchantress deck after seeing hers, modified quite a bit though, but probably my favorite deck
I did the same!
I went more creature based because it was originally a budget deck. Now it’s Selenya ramp and Eldrazi.
Elle De Jour
It's a fine deck, I run Karametra, not the enchantress version, it's just G/W good stuff, but it's pretty solid in the power level 6-7 range.
I feel like jesper is one the very edge of teir 2.5 cedh level playstyle
I would say Jesper is pretty solidly in the top casual power level. I guarantee his deck can hang with cEDH, but it’s not quite like cEDH stax decks that lock the table on turn 2-4
In response while the raycon ad is on the stack: My Grandpa often said that you save most money by not buying anything at all. He was kind of an economic genius. :D
Do you know what is even better than saving money? Earning more money.
Instead of saying, "I can't afford it", ask yourself "How can I afford it?"
@@PaulGaither Well I think it's pretty rational to not spend money on something you don't need and don't even want to have if you think about it.
There might be something more enjoyable to get.
And if you want to go few steps more, invest your capital to become financially independent longterm.
@@ComfyDents - Yes, and what you are saying is correct, but also a side point.
We want to stop working FOR money and to get money to work FOR us.
Investing in cash flowing deals.
Or you could spend money and support the show and buy your new cards like the new zendikar rising set from cardkingdom.com/command zone (just saying)
Gandalf der Graue The problem
Is: most people can’t do that. Literally 76% of people live paycheck to paycheck and BARELY have scraps for anything that isnt a necessity.
My dude, your example is the same as: well if we all owned a business, we would be good. Like my guy, recognize most of the wealth is owned by the top. Most just can’t do that.
I definitely think this episode could have been called "An intro to CEDH with Jesper Ejsing"
I'll use Ultra pro playmats, but I'll never use Ultra pro sleeves. Dragonsheild sleeves are the best. I've only ever had 2 dragonsheild sleeves break in my 4 years on playing
Iv never had a katana sleeve break
Dragon shields are aaaammmmaaaazing
I have both dragon shield matte and ultra pro eclipse and i think they are both amazing, i hate standard/old ultra pro sleeves, they were really bad, but the eclipse is good
I do prefer the dragon shield matte tho, the back of the sleeve is harder/stronger and the front is clear
But ngl i will try the new ultra pro when i have a chance
I like Dragon shield more but I use eclipse for 2 reasons: they're not as thick and can fit into smaller boxes which saves me a HUGE amount of space, and because Dragon shield sleeves are about 2 mm to tall and get that wavy warbled look on top that is not appealing.
@@dorsalfin22 tbh I don’t care about the waves on the top. Though I still use eclipse because I can find them easier than dragonshields infinite variety.
This is pretty much the opposite of how I like to play, but that's what playgroups are for!
It seems he wants to play cEDH.
Yup they should have named the video "How to get your deck to cEDH level"
As a cEDH and casual player these are all the things I try to teach new players. Interactive and engaging commander games are a lot of fun and I would argue more enjoyable.
Jesper is my hero. Man is just at the commander table to make his opponents WORK for it.
The annoying thing about the extra turns episode was not the decks being played, it was the complete lack of proper threat assessment. That whole game felt like it was handed to jesper.
This ^
And we could see that Josh's Greven deck does pack quite the punch, however especially Jimmy's deck is very low on instant speed interaction.
I fully agree. It was odd to see the others attacking each other when he was clearly the biggest threat. That was not a fun episode to watch (at least the second half). Plus check out the average cost of his deck - it’s around $4k+. My budget decks look like budget versions of Mitch’s decks and they let the other players play Magic too.
Couldn't agree more.
Jesper’s philosophy seems to be how can I get as close to cEDH as possible without completely crossing the line.
I believe he already crossed that line. Philosophy wise at least.
Crossed for sure
Lot of great information in this podcast; listening to jesper talk about his rationale for deckbuilding was wonderful.
Part of being a better deck builder is knowing how your opponents play and planning for it. Being able to even the playing field and narrow their routes to winning with a single card is a powerful thing!
Also, as someone who plays many graveyard decks and loves red; I think Blood Moon is totally fair when other people are dropping Rest in Peace on me!
When Josh asked "when's the last time you died to commander damage" my first thought was "well I haven't died to it in a while but between Feather and Sigarda I've killed with it lately" followed by "but when was the last time..." and remembering when a buddy of mine killed me with Ayli damage without boosting the Ayli's power in the least. Don't ask, it was a weird game.
I once lost a game after generous gifting an opponent's permanent, then getting beaten to death with a 3/3 over many, many turns. Commander is weird that way.
I killed someone with Sydri Galvanic Genius once with commander damage. She's also a 2/2.
I’ve been killed by Golos commander damage. 7 turns with no win but Commander Damage
I mean.. my wife's arixmethes deck almost always knocks at least one player in a group of 4 out with commander damage... or st least warps the game by not attacking the player that would be knocked out...
Ive had an opponent manage to pull off a full on 3 kill rampage with commander damage by boosting their commander to 18/18 and landing all 5 ral zerret coin flips
This episode could probably be renamed to "The fundamentals of cEDH"
"The Fundamentals of Stax"
My thoughts exactly. There was no discussion of power level, of what you want from your deck. The fact that you want to win as efficiently as possible was implicit.
Josh's level of annoyance regarding Blood Moon seems to be great resemblence of his decklists :P
As a long time watcher/listener of the podcast, I am truly amazed with how much you two have grown in terms of outlook and play style. Way different now than episode 1 and very cool to see. 😎
This is straight up 'how Casual Commander turns into cEDH' the podcast. This is all the rationale and all the deckbuilding changes to power up your playstyle toward cEDH.
I do feel like this is par for the course for command zone at this point.
Josh about dying to commander damage: "It's theoretically possible, but it actually never happens."
I beg to differ. I have an Akroma, Angel of Wrath voltron EDH deck, and she usually starts one-hitting people between turns 7 - 9. The record so far has been 48 points of damage in a single attack. =) With all the enchantment and equipment tutors white has access to, plus some potent protection and recursion spells, the deck is very consistent and resilient.
Don't hate on mono white, it definitely has its strengths!
I was once playing against a Bruna, Light of Alabaster enchantment deck. Got hit by a 128/128 with flying, trample, first strike, lifelink and hexproof. Its what happens when you have Nylea's colossus on the battlefield. Needless to say, he domed everyone.
Im surprised your commander doesnt get counterspelled when you play it for 8 mana
@@peeratv1288 That happens, and has actually cost me a game just a few weeks ago. 😅
But countermagic isn't that abundant in my playgroup to be a problem. Which I am grateful for, because Cavern of Souls is still a brutally expensive card... 😶
@The Dawg I like deckbuilding challenges. ^^ I also have a Basandra, Battle Seraph deck... 😉
"I have never seen anyone's will to live drain away from his face like that."
"And he was a broken man. BROKEN."
"But I think, Josh, you just need to take away one's will to live once, and you will-"
I replayed these parts for who knows how many times, lel
I'm scared.
---
Seriously speaking though, Jesper is amazing! :)
Whether Jesper had a stax or hate bears deck doesn't really matter the main issue was the clear lack of threat assessment. In this episode you guys mention a few wincons to look out for which Jesper had on board. Beside the obvious stax pieces he also had Sissay which is a dangerous tutor as well as a gaeas cradle x tharasios combo which really helped him get ahead on board.
To Jimmy and Josh: Stax is resource denial. That can take a few forms. It is not exclusive to decks that try to lock your opponents out of the game.
Some examples of stax are:
-discard
-taxes
-land destruction
-Rule of law
-Stoney silence
-Oppresion
-Winter orb
-Gaddok Teeg
-Dranith Magistrate
yeah, they're just wrong about that. Also, stax is not a term with a dictionary definition, it's a word which has meaning within this community only, so if a lot of people are saying "that was stax/staxy" maybe reconsider whether the condescension is warranted. Perhaps you're actually in the minority thinking stax only means hard locking games
Good point. Iirc, there are 3? word origins. 1st is Smokestack, 2nd is a backcronym of
STAX ~ Sacrifice, (Un)TAp and taX. I forgot the the 3rd, but all in all it is resource denial and breaking parity.
I also think that Hate Bears is a sub set or shares similarities to Stax.
I’ve been using Abrade as well in many of my decks. Modal cards that have low CMC are usually worth playing.
Light of Hope is one of my favorites now. In Vadrok, it always does something.
@@krisdaschwab912 It's really underrated! Glad you use it :)
My god you were Real, I CAN FINALLY END MY SEARCH FOR THE LEGENDARY LOCUST GOD (i love amonketh And moře specifically locust god)
Pomekádo PRAISE LOCUST BOI.
The Locust God unless it’s the card “Anguished unmaking” apparently :)
Josh's anger towards blood moon just enforces my love for any red deck to have blood moon
Blood moon > people who play 4+ colors
If they're letting the Blood Moon resolve, that's kinda on them lmao.
Fires of Invention > What's Blood Moon?
I'm surprised that he's so salty about it, specially the moment when he braggs about the number of answers in his deck. He's usually more nuanced.
DonWanri seemed offended that jesper was just saying “play more answers”, loved the salt haha
They should hire Mitch so when Josh and Jimmy suggest the expensive cards, Mitch can suggest some budget versions
Then those cards won’t be cheap anymore. Due to people running to buy them
@@deltadaddy94 the Wayfarer's Bauble effect
@@ancientswordrage that's completely mitch's fault too! Haha.
I become a bigger fan of Jesper with every video. Long live Blood Moon.
I think the Nature's Claim vs Decimate discussion is a little ironic because of the Epic Play playmat that you are currently kickstarting. The most enjoyable part of EDH for me is to make epic plays that feel great. It's more important to me than winning or stopping an opponent from winning. Decimate might have a low floor, but the ceiling on it can definitely feel like an epic play much more often than Nature's Claim can. I sometimes equate the feeling of casting Decimate to the feeling of going driving a basketball to the hoop against 3 defenders and still managing to dunk. On the other hand, Nature's Claim feels more like performing a regular reliable lay-up when no one is defending you.
At this point, Ashlen is basically the 3rd host because she is showing up everywhere.
nice profile pic
I love Ashlen as 3rd host!
And I'm so on board with this its not even funny.
She is both a great player and charasmatic and whenever she is on a game either she wins or somebody else wins using her cards so by proxy she wins 😆
@@eriknilsen3350 Amen to that, brother.
I used to run Blood Moon, Blood Sun, and Magus of the Moon in my Lathliss dragon deck purely to spite and slow down my play group, but over time they adapted to the strategy, so I changed them out for more utility lands and spells. Currently, it's one of my best decks for casual play and it actually wins more games because everyone isn't gunning for me off the bat now.
Detora effect:
"Whenever you see a deck with a lot of hate cards, performing good, put as many as you can of them into your deck, then shuffle your library"
Oh Melissa... I think she's sexy... It's her brain
@@jaydub5515 I would let her hatebears resolve, if you know what I mean.
If she's a hatebear, then I'm a 1/3 defender. She can attack me all night long!
Jesper gently explaining how to play cEDH, and yeah the name of the original deck is trasios / tymna hate bears.
i need Josh to sign me a blood moon, just so if i ever play him i can say "i've got a card with your name on it" as i play it
Blood Moon? Have you heard of contamination.
I finally upgraded my mana base, and first game (ok, probably second game technically) with the deck I got punished by a Blood Moon. And of course I was in Esper, I think I even had Esper Charm in hand, but of course not one of each basic (or enough mana rocks to get around it). Mono-red and mono-white certainly have tools. Not as many as other colors, but you can certainly get punished when they bring you down to their level.
Jesper has been great in the last few videos!
Hatebears is Stax Lite.
Those are still stax pieces.
That's still Tymna/Thras.
basicly hate bears are part of stax deck, if its slow opponent is part of stax archetype.
@@rhozpogi Counterspells slow me down like crazy, and THAT SAME PERSON beast within-ed my stuff once. Never played with them again. I don't do stax. It's just rude to put someone back by destroying their stuff
Junbo Commander but it is not rude to get ahead of others by cheating on the one land per turn rule by ramping? You are not only a weird imposter, but also a very whiny solitair player that only want to get ahead of people on his terms.
@@NJKoopmeiners are you kidding? The game is meant to be played, not countered. It's simply rude. I wouldn't imagine cedh players would understand. But like I always say, keep on truckin'!
@@BoatNectar thats how the game works, ur suppose to interact with others. U dont have to be cedh player to interact or u might aswell play by urself if u dont want others to stop u. U seem very petty.
Josh: “very rarely does someone die from commander damage”
*laughs in Arixmethes*
I had this same thought haha. Arixmethes needs more hype
Laughs in the Eldrazi Titans
My voltron omnath locus of mana deck is crying
They are really based against commander damage, in my old meta it was a thing cause we had huge generals like ur dragon, o kagachi, rakdos, etc etc, and a lot of lifegain
Commander damage isnt that huge in general, really depends of meta and powerlevel, but i dont get why they always try so hard to undervalue it
laughs in grismold the dreadsower
Your opponents can't win if they don't want to play with you. Play land destruction.
Mono white with Armageddon is my go-to for making someone hate me
Acid rain is clearly the play here
May I advise to make Avacyn, Angel of Hope your commander? Add fast mana and every board wipe you have + Worldslayer, and you'll never have opponents again. 😜
I like to Gae's Balance into global ruin and play the black bringer and the white bringers out and trigger infinite turns or some such other nonsense since they banned coalition victory
I'm reporting this comment
This video just hit me different. Half way through the video, I’m taking apart a deck of mine specifically to take out greedy big cards for ‘free’ instants. I’m genuinely excited to play the deck and approach the game differently. Seriously, thank you guys XD
CEDH is EDH. Stax isn't a solely competitive strategy. Just because your deck can't beat a thalia and counterspell doesn't mean it's CEDH. Lowering your mana curve for objectively better cards doesn't mean you are playing "CEDH"
The premier cEDH stax deck (blood pod) is a hate bears deck, with no smokestack or stasis/winter orb effects.
Josh: “you rarely ever see someone die from commander damage”
Comment Section Voltron Players: *so you have chosen, death*
I win quite often with my Gishath deck, and its well over 60% of those wins are commander damage.
This week on the Command Zone: Jimmy and Josh talk about cEDH staples so their prices can skyrocket 😂
Seems to me YOU guys don't know what a stax deck is. Take a look at the Blood Pod cEDH deck. That deck doesn't run Stasis (it's not even blue) neither Winter Orb and is still considered a stax deck, and a very good at it too.
Take it from and old mtgsalvation post: stax is a term used to describe a deck strategy that mostly relies on resource denial, taxing effects, disruption, and sacrifice enablers to potentially lock down opponents and make it difficult to cast spells, play creatures, attack, breath, sleep, and/or have any kind of reliable board state.
Jasper's deck is that. A deck that makes it harder for the other players to play their games. He doesn't use the full locks but is extremely heavy on the taxing part. You don't have to be running complete lock down cards to be a stax deck.
His game plan is also compatible with the one of a stax deck. He wants to slow others down or shut off their win conditions so he can establish his own board and reach the inevitable point in the game where he has just generated too much card advantage/completely shut off opponents/comboed to guarantee the victory.
So you can say all you want about what a stax deck is or is not, but I was not convinced and still think Jasper's deck is a stax deck. And a nicely built one.
I need an edit here
On a completely unrelated note, Marath was my first commander and the one I always wanted to make work the most. I ended up with an Academy Rector in my deck but to do more degenerate things such as getting a Nature's Revolt with Elesh Norn on the battlefield. Another great thing of the great beast is giving him deathtouch (either Peddler or Basilisk Collar) and your oponents simply can't play any more creatures since Marath can one shot them!
Edit 2
Path to Exile x Anguished Unmaking for me depends entirely on power level of the deck. Anguished for lower level table, Path for higher level tables. In a cEDH game I'm not even sure I'd run any of those.
Last edit
Blood Moon is a stax card for me
overall I agree with you, but IMO there are two different types of stax: soft stax and hard stax. soft stax is hatebears, increasing the difficulty of going off for your opponents. it's what I'd call Jesper's deck. then there's the hard stax, the Smokestacks, Stasis, Winter Orb, Static Orb type effects. hard resource denial and trying to fully stop your opponents from doing anything close to impactful. a good example would be the most competitive Derevi decks.
Very interesting juxtaposition to follow the "unique deck" video with this one. The last one was basically how to make your deck more casual and this one is basically how to push your deck close to cedh level.
1:10:30 Hearing Josh describe Blood Moon is like Shivam talking about Iona.
@josh hate bears is a stax deck it's just not a heavy stax deck, you are right in that it doesn't have winter orb and stasis. Those cards are the go to cards when you look at stax, but Stax is a term used to describe a deck strategy that mostly relies on resource denial, taxing effects, disruption, and sacrifice enablers to potentially lock down opponents and make it difficult to cast spells, play creatures, attack, ... etc. Just because he doesn't go 100% stax doesn't mean his deck isn't a stax deck, death and taxes is a stax deck that doesn't run winter orb or stasis. So just because you are able to play your spells doesn't mean that he didn't play stax.
The main thing here is Josh you don't know what stax is because the general concept of stax in commander is super negative, but almost all players play some form of stax cards the largest being rhystic study it doesn't stop your opponents from playing but it is putting a tax on them for your advantage. Jesper literally played Thorn of Amethyst that is a stax card. Stax just get's a bad rep because people think stax is only stasis, winter orb, no one plays the game. That is stax as well and that's hard stax effects but you can have light stax effects.
The key to stopping your opponent from winning is by casting a 6/6 trampling Dinosaur.
Not if your deck is designed especially towards creatures... i have 15 board wipes in my deck. I usually keep the board free from creatures .... its easy in my mono black discard deck.
no one tell him
Nosferat_AN roger that. Operation Maw is in full effect.
I love how you guys focused on the value of low cost, pin point effects. These tactics are super important, and so many cards are underplayed because not enough people understand the value. Thanks for the discussion!
They are underplayed becuase they are AIDS. If someone else is spreading the sickness, you don't respond in spreading it more. It only gets shit all over the place.
Gysahl Gemüse wow, aggressive. Why?
Gysahl Gemüse what are you rambling on about?
Gysahl Gemüse the only mouthbreathing idiot here is the one who starts insulting other people when he is asked to explain his extremely, overreacting, negative attitude. What is your problem with this episode?
When Jimmy said blaming power levels as a reason for always losing seems like a direct response to the last Extra Turns.
It totally was. A lot of the first comments you see were about people complaining about how Jesper's deck was way OP.
@@Mach9330 Thrasios and Tymna is along with Nekusar the deck I refuse to play against ever. I don't want to play against cEDH decks.
@@DAsrada Just because Jesper's deck was more powerful than your stuff and seemed very strong in this episode doesn't mean it is a cEDH deck.
Yes T&T stax is a strategy that is also employed in cEDH but the build he had lacked a lot of the interaction, tutors and other stuff that the cEDH version runs, he ran 7 instants and no FoN or FoW among them, no Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation etc. I'd consider his deck a 8, if threat assessment wasn't so shit he would have been in way more trouble.
DAsrada Grouping Nekusar in with T&T is absurd, let alone calling nekusar anywhere near cEDH is laughable
@@aR0ttenBANANA it wasnt cedh
I want to see this expanded on with an episode on how to play control. Also, there's an interesting angle about how other players feel about control. Personally, I think control is wayyyy better and more fun to play with and against than combo. I like interactive games, even if they are long.
if you get stung by blood moon you need to play more basic lands and answers. These effects are what give boros power, taking them away with the social contract is what makes boros the weakest colour pair.
This. I’ve been saying the same thing for years. White’s only super weak because its tools are either banned (balance) or hated out of play (Armageddon).
Talk about blood blood moon more, I need to live vicariously through someone playing it. My playgroup promises my obliteration if I play the one I picked up from 2xm.
Topic starts: 7:28
What you miss: Animation of the New Playmat art, some ads
Doing God’s work keep it up
What I loved about this topic was that they don't necessarily agree on a lot of things. It makes for a very interesting thought process when you realize different approaches can both be taken into consideration. Jesper was a great guest, I really enjoyed him.
Josh: No one wins by commander damage.
Me: I just killed my opponent with my Arcades deck because of commander damage last weekend.
I won with my atraxa superfriends deck through commander damage last week...
I won with rankle commander damage last weekend
Yeah I kill people all the time in cEDH games by commander damage with Pako
In our league of commander 2020 precon, someone dies of commander damage 50% of the time; because of otremi the everplayful...
Sigarda, Host of Herons voltron with specifically Celestial Mantel so when people try to gang up on me I say good luck.
Not much of a fan of how Jesper plays Magic but he seems like a genuine blast to play with. Such a fun episode with a really fun guy.
Jesper : "And I play Cyclonic Rift"
Josh : "Who doesn't"
Me who will never run it : "I feel personally attacked"
Same :/
Too expensive for me, and too 'obvious'
Nathaniel Gallimore
Cyclonic rift is a life saver, good fun for all, at least you can lessen the blow by playing mana flare effects and howling mine effects, allowing opponents to recover more quickly. As long as your pillow fort deck can handle the aggro, cyclonic rift is just a safety net similar to Teferi's protection. At least that's the way I see it. No harm no foul.
@@timtauber5557 The reason I'm not a fan is that it is instant. If it was sorcery speed and you managed to give it flash then I say hats off to you. With the Tefrri's protection argument I don't see them as the same one stops you and your stuff from being targeted gaining no one advantage or disadvantage bar the cards on the stack. Rift however sets 3 out of 4 back dealing a massive swing in one player favour. I respect people want to play it and I won't stop them I just choose not to run it because it gives me no joy outside forking my opponents copy and countering the original
Nathaniel Gallimore
Fair enough. I just see it as another way to prevent craterhoof behemoth from killing everyone or some similar calamity
One of the most useful topics for people that wants to become more into powerful commander style thank you guys for everything
I have to admit, hearing josh being salty about bloodmoon feels a bit ironic when he was against Iona being banned - they really kind of do the same thing, it's just that josh rarely plays mono-colored decks, but plays almost no basics - pretty sure that's irony, or something similar that I can't remember the name of
Hypocritical I think is the word you’re looking for? I ageee with you
Well to be fair, there's definitely a difference between being salty about a card and wanting a card banned. But I get what you mean
Exactly! The logic is so flawed
Disliking a card is not the same as wanting it banned. I doubt Josh would ever fight for banning Blood Moon.
josh doesnt want bloodmoon banned. not liking a card and not banning a card are very different.
This video really highlights what all us cedh players have been preaching when speaking specifically about small optimisations regarding certain slots in a deck and deck construction techniques. Eagerly awaiting to see communities develop. Shows like this is a great way to show what people should be playing without making someone feel stupid for not running some of the mentioned improvements. Good job The Command Zone ^^
Jesper saying bloodmoon punishes greedy decks when his deck was packed with Duals. 😏😏😏
I play a 4c deck with 3 basics total. I accept that I'm being greedy. Greed is good.
I pack Fires of Invention in my deck. To say that it "sidesteps" Blood Moon is putting it lightly.
Lol Jesper is giving away all of our CEDH secrets. My boi chain of vapor gettin some respect hell yeah
Jesper is basically my new EDH role model.
Stax is any (generally symmetrical) effect that, through deckbuilding, gives it's deck an advantage over other decks. A deck that stops other players completely is a lock down deck, or a deck with a lock. There exist polite and impolite versions of each of these strategies.
First Response to Blood Moon:
I love it, if you don't build your decks around mana rocks and basic lands, even in a 4c/5c deck, that's just back deck design. Either build it faster, or build a little slower with a greater attention to detail. I don't care what you say, red mana can be used to cast mana rocks, and if you are always stuck in that Blood Moon situation, just run Chromatic Lantern and then ways to get said lantern for cheap.
Response to Preventing myself from Losing the game:
Just build more utility. They gave the example of Decimate, but they didn't talk about charms. Rakdos Charm for Example, exiles a graveyard, or destroys and artifact, or destroys a token strategy. Big ol Utility.
In my personal belief, I will take utility over mana efficiency any day. If I have to choose between Nature's Claim and Rakdos Charm, I'm taking the Charm. If I have to choose between Kolaghan's Command and a Path to Exile, I'm taking the Command. I just love utility and it's how I am always the Elephant in the Room at my LGS or even my local playgroups.
Use cards that do more than one thing, and if you don't have a way to deal with something, you are wrong because artifacts exist. Play something less efficient to play the same game. If you are in red and you can't destroy enchantments, play Liquimetal Coating and turn those things into artifacts and Smash them to Smithereens. Play Unstable Obelisk, Meteor Golem, Universal Solvent, Lux Cannon, Argentum Armor, Ugin in all forms, just get creative and make it happen. Just because you have to dedicate a slot in your deck to deal with a specific thing, just like they stated in the video, play narrow answers, and card draw to draw those answers.
Also, for you aggressive players out there, play War Cadence for crying out loud and stop complaining about unfavorable attacks, just pay 5 and go, and if 5 is too much, then you need to re-evaluate your deck, or you're playing edgar markov with tribal 1-2 drops.
If you need to find an answer for something, either play another color, or dig deeper into answers, and most of all, build more utility. Find the silver bullet answer and make other people go home. Someone plays Blood Moon, I played unstable obelisk the turn prior so I will just destroy it before my next turn. My opponent just played a platinum angel and a darksteel forge, just play a rebuild, or a Hurkyl's Recall, or literally anything that exiles an artifact. Play the slow utility game to come out on top, it's how my turn 3 playgroups turned into a turn 15 grindfest of failed winning attempt after failed winning attempt.
Just do the research, find more utility, jam pack more into your deck and go crazy.
I feel like people that complain about Blood Moon or hatebears always play Green and Blue in their decks and say: “Red and White are the weakest colors in Commander”. Sure, those colors need work, but they are made weaker if their anti-thesis to Green and Blue (preventing people to get ahead on ramp or card draw) is negated because people get salty over it.
Great video. You guys brought up decimate and that made me remember when I deflecting swatted a decimate. The look on that players face was priceless lol
I think jesper is secretly a cedh player haha
100% agree lol
Not really a secret he shows up a lot on playing with power
@@jazoinklastname4289 yea but this was 4 months ago when I said this things have changed since I posted this
That episode with Melissa Del Tera was what made me play commander for the first time. I couldn't thank you guys more!
I love jesper’s accent it’s very interesting to listen to
To add more wind to the Nature's claim windmill : a medium/high removal or board clear does slightly make you "lose" a whole turn to save the game, sacrificing sometimes you're own plans. Decimate is great but doesn't help your own progression or plans.
Josh's salt is delisious
Regarding the blood moon, you can still cast mana rocks that tap for relevant mana, or even mana filtering cards. If a blood moon turns off your deck that hard then isn’t that more on the deck builder? Or am I missing something?
While talking about playing at flash speed they never seem to mention leyline of anticipation, which can be better than veldalken orrery?
Josh has stated before that he always talks about the Orrery because it can go in literally any deck, & that he is aware Leyline is a thing.
1:00:20 Josh is talking about "The art of war" Focus on what's weak, not the strong.
so never try to be taller than your tall enemy.
Video starts @ 7:30
These comments never get enough love.
Thanks! I don't like watching 7 minutes of ads...
For the record there is nothing wrong with Jesper playing Stax/Hate Bears. There was an episode of Extra Turns with Kyle and DJ that had a noticable higher power level but that episode was a lot of fun to watch because everyone had an explosive turn. In that episode Kyle starts to go off and the table collectively target him and pitch in to take him out. That is the good threat assessment we have come to expect from GKs and ETs. Again Jesper seems like a great guy and he's a great artist but the ET episode was not fun to watch imo.
Felt a poor threat assessment and gave Jesper a chance to win. He was playing partner commanders that focuses value. Maybe they wanted him to win, since this is his first time.
Command zone accidentally makes cEDH 101 🤣👌🏻
Raycon ad ending was perfect! Brings me back to one of my favorite Game Knights!
Says we don’t know what Stax is but EDHrec’s stax page is literally Jespers deck. Stax is more than stasis, winter orb and smokestack.
Jesper is absolutely delightful. I love the idea of using Abrade instead of Vandalblast as a more generally versatile and usable card in a given situation.
There is one "political" method to stop players from winning, that I think is very important to mention. How important mentioning it got to me on one of your Roundtable Episodes. If you aren't winning and have the Option to eliminate a Player, that's also not winning, strongly consider not to elimate him. Have another Player at the table brings up more opportunities to stop the Player, that's currently ahead.
Josh's hatred of Blood Moon is equivalent to that of my friends hatred of my Wonder and my Apprentice Necromancer. Using Necromancer in my Sidisi, Brood Tyrant deck to pull Kessig Cagebreakers to the field with haste and then, in turn summoning 21 2/2 Wolves with flying, smacking past all his creatures on multiple occasions is just beautiful.
I’m calling it,
An episode playing archenemy, and Jesper is the archenemy
Jesper running a full stax deck with a rule of law to start off
Really glad to see Ashlen on the midroll ad.
The size of that absolute pile of *salt* outro from Josh for Jesper.
I am seriously impressed by Jesper, he knows all the things I try to teach players on how to improve decks. Even though he painted Oracal, I will never hate him
The "worth the mana cost" section feels kinda indicative of this shift lately toward a mindset far more alike to those of the more traditionally competitive formats. I get most of the points in general and would never shame anyone for subscribing to those philosophies, my worry is how often I've been hearing them preached as doctrine because points like that being accepted as doctrine is why I hardly play other constructed formats anymore. It just increasingly feels like there's no room for janky fun things.
I kind of agree. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be efficient, but when the Average version of the format turns into "Oh, that's 4 cmc, that's too expensive, play a 1 cmc card instead" I get a little bummed. EDH in many ways is the last bastion for Timmy players.
I agree. The more expensive (CMC-wise) splashy cards have basically no room to breathe anywhere. Not that I necessarily dislike faster pace on a lower curve, but it feels like it brings much less variety.
It's kinda weird to say such thing about the format as basically commander is all about talking about how you wanna play with your playgroup
@@vincent-antoinesoucy1872 Knew this was coming lol. You aren't wrong but there's something to be said about the fact that more general consensus and conversation about things in the format exist than ever before right now and it hugely impacts those that, say, mostly play at their LGS with people rotating in and out of the place all the time (not right now of course but just in general).
@@TrueTgirl that is correct, I think that the solution is really to also have common vocabulary to name power level such as the 1 to 10 power level to have a quick way to agree on social contract even with new people.
I had quite a few of commander damage wins the last few times I played. Mostly because I am quite in love with my Rielle deck; which I build in a funky spellslinger, carddraw, voltron deck.
I say even if you know you are going to lose, make every possible effort to make it more difficult for your opponents to win, you might even end up winning.
Never surrender!!
You have to do everything you can to make 1 player win... so it’s faster to shuffle up and then get your revenge
Josh roasting Jesper about Blood Moon gave me life ❤️ 1:06:00
Wize words of Jimmy:
"Cards that say you win the game on them are ways to win"
Jesper is my favorite mtg artist. I started collecting during Lorwyn and one of my 1st cards the artwork was done by him. I hope for him to sign it or even meet him. 😁
Wow, I've never heard Josh be so salty about a card as with Blood Moon hahahaha
The rule i play with stax cards: You can make it so that your opponents struggle a little more to play the game, but not outright make them suffer (e.g. winter orb or stasis etc). I’ve faced too many stax decks where i can’t do anything at all and i would hate making my opponents feel like that if i brought stax to the table
its ok your opponents would hate you too. Yeah hard stax is very different than light stax. Slowing a person down is much different than locking them out.