76 Ironhead...Almost Called It Quits... Intake Leaks
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2019
- After countless attempts to solve the intake leak issue, I walked away from it for a while. This time I picked back up where I left off from a couple of months prior to try it again. Not sure what the outcome will be in the long run with this bike... even though I have some ideas. But it certainly feels more like I'm dealing with some kind of an entity rather than a machine.
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As a guy who has been riding Ironheads since 1976, and has owned the same one (the third one I bought) since 1980, maybe I can offer a few suggestions.
A-number-one is to ditch those points. You simply cannot buy a decent set of points these days. Back when everything used them, we could get outstanding points, with quality plating on the contact surfaces. We simply cannot do that today - demand is so low that only a few manufacturers produce them, regardless of what brand the box says it is. There are a number of modern options, depending on how much you have to spend and how fancy you want to go. One of the cheapest is the old Dyna system that utilizes the stock flyweights, but many others use electronic advance and dispense with all moving parts.
Next, and someone already touched on this, is to torque the heads AFTER you have the intake manifold clamped in place. This includes the carb and air cleaner backing plate, along with the vertical support strap that mounts to the right side case. The manifold, carb, and air cleaner backing plate all need to be SOLIDLY in place prior to torquing the heads. Some Vaseline on the manifold, o-rings, clamps, and intake flanges really helps it all move around enough to align. There is a distinctive kind of "snapping" or "popping" into place that you will feel when it lines up.
Finally, exhaust - lose the drag pipes. Buy a set of slip-on mufflers (I like Cycle Shack), cut the drag pipes to length, and mount up the slip-ons. These motors are damn near impossible to tune with open drag pipes, or with baffled drag pipes. Oh, plenty of folks will protest and say their's run "just fine", but that is only because they have no idea how well these can run.
As far as mounting the exhaust, get the NARROWEST head pipe clamps you can find. Those big wide ones go so far as to cover the shoulder where the pipe is stepped and therefor are trying to compress that part of the pipe. Impossible - cannot be done. You want a clamp that just covers the slotted part of the pipe.
Even then they will continually loosen. The key, then, is how solidly mounted the pipes are to the frame. The front pipe is easy to mount very solidly. The rear is the tough one. Most mounts flex way, way too much, and allow the pipe to move around. Weld some reinforcement to this rear mount until it is so solid that the rear pipe will stay on the head with no head clamp. Until it is that solid, you will be fighting it all of the time. Oh, and don't be afraid to add more slots to the top of the pipe. Some only have two, some have four. Use a hacksaw to add more if necessary until the clamp actually clamps.
Hope this helps. Don't give up on the old Ironhead - they are awfully fun bikes to ride.
Sage advice here....... heed it all.
@Brett Peterson I'm not surprised. If I remember correctly, my bike originally had a lot of AC Delco electrical parts on it, as new from the factory. I actually used to have a cross-reference that showed which AC Delco or Motorcraft parts could be substituted for the parts on my bike. Wish I still had that, although today it's probably not as valuable as it was back then.
That said, let me clarify what I said about being unable to buy good points these days. It comes down to poor quality plating on the contact surfaces and inferior materials used on the rub blocks. The contact surfaces burn very, very quickly, and the rub blocks wear very quickly as well. The quality points of days gone by had either platinum or real silver on the contact points, which would last a good long time. Those days are behind us, with the points currently available using cheap tin plating, if they are plated at all. There is just no incentive, financially, for any manufacturer to build quality points anymore. The demand is just too low to make it worthwhile.
Thanks, Duplex. I will definately take all this into account. Got the your comment pinned so I can go back and read what I may have forgot.
Man you covered it all. They can be a real booger the lineup I've been riding them sense 70 started with the wrong side shifter wish I had it. My 79 as you know was the first year electronic ignition that was probably the best thing Harley ever did to help the Ironhead. Along with the Dual front brakes, my 79 hugger has a chrome moly racing frame on the first ones that came out in 79 anyways. But you got to love you shake and Son of a guns you know what I mean.
Been dealing with intake and long story but you are wise. Can I weld intake to front head?
loosen the jugs at the base and clock (turn) the jugs until everything lines up perfectly, torque jugs to specs, and install new o-rings and seals, do not over tighten the intake clamps. Use brake cleaner, not carb cleaner to find leaks, you need to have a big leak to make carb cleaner work as it does not burn (idle will drop). Brake cleaner is thin and flammable, and will cause the idle to rise even with the tiniest leak. Brake cleaner also dissolves real fast so it won't cause a fire like other flammable materials. This happened to me back in the late 80s with a 72 iron head. after reclocking the cylinders never had another leak
Hey man I love your honesty. You don’t edit out the hard and aggravating things and just show a fake smooth installation. You have the patience of Job. Blessings as you endure thru this project.
Nice video and thanks for doing it. I have a '77 Sportster that I bought brand new and of course I have fought this too. The last time I had this issue was over 20 years ago and when I put it back together I siliconed the heck out of those O-rings and it sealed it right up and it ran fine. Well I haven't ridded the bike in a couple of years now and of course I had to pull the carb and intake to overhaul the carb. Now I have to face this issue again and at my age I don't relish being on my knees that long. There wasn't RUclips the last time I put this intake manifold in place so I"m watching now to see if there is a trick. But I see no there isn't any good way to do it still so I'm going to use the silicone trick again.
Thanks again for your time and the video, wish me luck.
I missed this one, I learn stuff every time you make videos lol. I wish I had your understanding of old bikes. I always enjoy your videos. Stay safe brother.
just finished up my first ironhead, 1960 Mag/kick only and i had a hell of a time getting it running. fucked with the timing so many times, turned out the float in the carb was adjusted to far up and it would let just enough fuel to get the bike to fire but then it would die out cause it was starved of fuel. i wanted to ghost ride that thing down a hill a few times , the float level never even crossed my mind. a few weeks later i just gave it one more chance and adjusted everything inpossibly could, set timing, gapped points, adj valves, cleaned carb, set float height and it was a great fuckin feeling when that thing fired and ran. makes you appreciate it more in the end.
I had the the same issues with my Iron Head with the S&S carb ..thanks for sharing Bro
I love those old iron heads. It is essential to set the heads properly when you torque them down. They used to sell and I have one somewhere a triangle device yo set in between the intake flanges so both front and rear touch equally giving the proper angle. It's not that hard to seal once you get the angles right. Also do not over tighten the clamps. And brace the carb so the oring flanges aren't supporting the weight of the whole assembly. Keep at it. You'll get it.
Hey man great vid , I was chasing the exact problem with my 1976 Ironhead , after 2 years of trying to get it to run right ended up being a bad ignition switch ,replaced it now it runs like new good luck man
I rode a 76 ironhead for years. I know what you are going through with the intake leaks, I finally got mine sealed by doing exactly what you are doing. It will work. Stay with it.
keep at it saddleT you'll get it. Been out enjoying my new to me 2002 883 this weekend. Great bike!! perfect for me!! I feel like I could ride it coast to coast !!!
That's the motor I'm running in the Tramp. 2002 883 R motor. Solid engine.
One suggestion I have is point a fan directly at the air cleaner when testing for leaks using carb cleaner (DONT use brakeclean unless its non chlorinated). Do this to eliminate any overspray getting pulled into the venturi giving false positives. Youd be surprised no matter how diligent you spray, how the smallest amount of fumes will migrate around causing you to chase your tail.
Try this for intake leaks.....get high heat self fusing tape good to 509 degrees. A bit of a pain but wrap the intake a few times tightly but not like gorilla tight. Remember to leave rubber o ring! Clamp and you are done. It is a bit challenging to wrap it, but take your time! Most importantly, make sure you have a bracket holding up the carb!
Lot of work in those things. Good luck
Hey Tramp. I wanna put that Single Throttle cable on my 93 Sportster. Clean looking and I can dig it. I learn and notice stuff every time i watch and rewatch your Videos.
You have me very jealous. Would love to have a project bike like that!
Yes I've tried those, I also use a blue gasket material it comes in a tube it never gets really hard you put it around the fitting Slide the rubber on and put your clamp on it give it about ten hours and it works pretty good stop the leak. I forget the name of that gasket material but it comes in a tube and it's blue. Good luck I know they still make it I had to redo my 79 Ironhead 4 years ago.
Nice project 👍
Thanks!!!
Try cutting out some strips from a beer can and wrap the exhaust spigot with a couple before tightening down with the exhaust clamp.
When installing heads always put intake in there to line up and tighten up! I never had leaks on any Harley with new seals after install.
Great video 👍🏻
I had a 79 that was sucking air around the front exhaust pipe against the head an would foul the plug at red lights or idling,I used beer can tabs under my exhaust clamps an double sided tape to hold them inside the exhaust clamp until I got them on the pipe it worked well for 2 yrs an I came across a set of new clamps at a cycle swap meet an finnal swapped them out ,,hope this helps you out sometimes oh Jimmy rig works in my case it did had 4 inch drag pipes on it. ,
Greetings from WV. If you use a dish soap mixture instead of something FLAMMABLE, it will make the idle DROP and eliminate the FIRE HAZARD, lol.The ironhead were a labor of love FOR SURE! IF you can learn their quirks tho, they are GREAT. LMFAO
Yeah man like duplex said ditch the points man..that be a good start an like the other dude sugested check the connection on the head
our local motorcycle shop sold aircraft quality intake manifold clamps and aircraft quality exhaust clamps. my intake manifold has o rings it's been installed now for 25 years no problem. my exhaust pipes have been installed for 25 years no problem. Original Harley clamps and that stupid circular tube thing are junk. Good luck trying to find aircraft quality clamps in your area. have fun!
I agree that wide, flat piece of rubber was garbage.and I thing &P cycles sells a improved stainless clamp that replaces the HD one
The old bikes keep you on your toes.
You have help me with my nick a lot thankes
Does James make a seal for those intakes or could they maybe ? I've tried them on my evo but they were overkill and the oem ones sealed up nice but I know people that have had great luck with them. I don't know why HD can't find a solution for this, I'd like to think maybe many moons and heat cycles play a role with warpage or loosing that trueness but I never see it happen on older metrics (i.e. CB, Maxim, Magna V-max) even the air cooled ones. Just food for thought, many opinions out there. There's nothing like riding something you built from the ground up, great work!
Patience is a virtue or should I say a necessity with iron heads. I’ve had a77 n have a81 sportster Hav a good day. 🇺🇸
Loved my old ironhead, but I don’t miss the ever so present....”well 💩 I’m gonna have to fix that “
Lol
They make 4 plastic rings that go on the lips of head and manifold , front and rear, then put the rubber band seals over that and clamp them, never had problems after with shovels or sportys it changes from o ring to rubberband with plastic rings facing each other but still might have to turn head for better fit, with plastic rings you can check for gaps with feeler gage
I'm seriously struggling with an intake leak on my 79. Its leaking so bad gas is misting out of the carb. Its really missing me off. I'll go at it again until I get it right.
nice tutorial...i have ironhead 1977...well is leaking from the front engine and its started to smoke from interconnection exhaust...any solution...thank u...
Did you replace the O-rings in the heads behind the intake manifold!!!! I used to have an Iron head you have to pull off the intake manifold replace those you could even loosen the cylinder bolds and rotate the cylinders until the two intake ports mate up perfectly then tighten the bolts back down if push comes to shove you could even loosen the head bolts rotate the heads until they meet up too. Eventually it will run the way it is supposed to. All gaskets replaced with the cylinders and heads turned should do the trick. It sounds good that's the way my Iron head ran I rode it everywhere
yup, as John says, its oring manifold witch needs orings, not bands. Bands might be good for a time, but the clamps holding it down wont make it work for a longer period. Best of luck! ;) And its a cv carb, run 45/46 idle 185/190 main. might give you a better idle and response with those open pipes.
Thank god they improved my 85 to that design. Use high temp rtv on the pipes or they will leak
I wish my Milwaukee 8 sounded like that
Me too. The new motors are nice, but I’ll be damn at the character of those of yesteryear...
Throw a sns 465 or 475 in it.
I ran a 465 in mine and i loved it 👊
Hey I didn't hear it fart out the carburetor so I'll keep those hose gaskets in mind
Since I have my 74 rigid, 17 years now, I never get the idle ok, so I put it higher in idle. Hate to have to kickstart in the middle of a crossroad. My shovel is a bitch, but I love it so
Where did you buy those hose adapters for the intake seems like a great idea
Picked them up from a chopper rally in Texas.
I'm wrestling with intake leaks on a panhead. Came across your video. What did you end up with for an opinion on this method of ceiling intake leaks?
Used a different carburetor. Turned out that was my issue all along.
dude thats so funny i have the same oil leak right above from the speedo slot in the right rover hahahahahha
I was gona say how did you get that cv carb yo work? But did it ever work?
It works. A little rough, but it runs.
Haha the correct way is to loosen the heads till just snug, then torq the intake completely then finish torturing the heads
I see you're using a late model cv carb. What size jets are in there?
45 slow with a 175 main.
@@SaddleTrampTV thank you!
Sounds like it could possibly be a carbon buildup on the heads valves I would pour some Marvel's Mystery Oil down the intake while it's running is going to smoke like a bitch but it'll probably smooth out
I have a1970 XLH project I been procrastinating with... your not encouraging me! I hope you get things sorted out! Actually I have a S&S super b carb and manifold on mine and seems to run fine with it.
I am losing my mind with intake leak!!!!
I can feel your pain.
My 73' broke my soul with all it's problems. The rear sprocket rivets all sheared leaving me stranded,,,,,,,Right in front of the York PA plant. The points took a shit coming home from the beach, I was a kid at the time so it took me a while to figure out that was the problem.
The dumbest thing, and I shit you not, the kickstand cracked in half.!!!! Came out on day and the bitch was leaned waaay over, only thing hold the bike up was a collar that joined the two piece stand.
Almost made me regret my Harley tattoo............
If you are going to get rid of it let me know thanks
Dude I feel your pain. I got xlh 77 1000 built to 12 s&s gears cam .Iv put the ring spacers, stupid sleeves. I've got new carb. Different intakes.electronic ignition, could. Gas tanks. I couldn't get half what I've put into mine. Done everything myself. Over 3 year's completely rebuilt and I get one good ride with wife every year and and then finiky bitch wants to have no top end. Super e shorty New.. and have same issue.jut bought new cycle electrical regulator. It Rip's every year for couple decent ride's. Then runs like shit in 3rd I have to full throttle old girl to keep going. then I fuck with it for week and get pissed and put her in corner of my garage. then I'm sucking air..I think it that fucking intake. I seen something about some old boy that built some out of wood? I think you just made me realize it definitely that intake. I'm going to weld intake to front head and leave other one free. I don't know what else to do. Great stuff..... lol.
I think my problem is that it sees the other 2 bikes in the garage and is jealous. Refuses to be just another motorcycle. Wants to be the only bike. Therefore its a stubborn woman that won't to listen to logic. Sounds pretty ironheadish to me.
How did you stop the leaks
Found out way later that it was due to a bad carburetor body, and my valve seat were gone.
I've heard of people using points for a larger lawnmower on older bikes dont know the validity in that since I haven't done anything but basic maintenance on bikes I've owned. I cant help thinking I know you from somewhere likely my town of Houma if at all or maybe Thibodaux since.ive did a lot of riding around both. Dont know if you go by your given name or went by a nickname.
No. Not from around there.
I love these old bikes. At least you can work on them without a computer class or program some stupid shit to make it run. Stay tru to the old ways.
O rings and electric tape stops vac leaks and time the damn thing
Intake might be bad
Hey, there's a utube guy goes by the name Pacific mike. He has a video on how to align that intake manifold on shovels. Maybe you can pickup some tips or just hit him up for advise. He always answers requests. This guy knows his $hit! If I find the video I'll post here.
Yeah, I've watched that guy before. He's pretty good.
You Can di It ! Lol 😊
Maybe the carb not intake
Flange style isnt much better brother. Im on my 5th attempt
On the evo manifolds, you use a little grease on the seals and get the carburetor in place first, and then evenly torque the flange bolts to the heads. A lot of folks don't know to do that.
What size engine is that
1000cc
I have an 82 that has sat for several years now I want to get running again. It’s a 1000 but yours sounded a lot stronger
👀💬⛳ 👍
Are you interested in selling it?
No, not really. Thanks for asking though.
But what was the "Different Touch"you went with? My 76' starts but won't idle. I can keep it running if I work the throttle but that's all I have. I've been told everything from intake leaks to electrical issues to static timing, none of which has changed the problem. Now you have a "Different Touch" solve but you don't say how. Come on Brah spill
Maybe turn the idle adjustment screw up some?
@@SaddleTrampTV tried that, didn't change. Then switched the carb for S&S but still won't idle. Complete build from the ground up. I spent two years rounding up parts and I still haven't got ride it. I'm so frustrated with this bike, if I didn't love it I would have shot it already