Ironhead Breather Timing Nbr 171
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2023
- Breather timing and cam timing set on new rebuild Ironhead motor. Harley cam timing marks are not particularly precise, trial and error are required to get them to play in the right ball park. Bonus video on gear shift shaft seal installation tool.
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Love the clarity you presented. Well done. I learned a lot.
Thank You
Best instructor on Harley Sporster motors, by far. Thank you so very much.
Wow, thanks!
The whole time during the oil pump check ball fiasco, I wondered about oil pump breather timing. Thank you for explaining .
Thank You! I haven't given up for finding a fix on the check ball problem.
I have the exact problem with my 45's. After about a year playing with the marks I usually can get it. Impressed with your tools. You should patent the seal installer. Great job!
Thanks for the tips!
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My first cam timing was on a 73. I lined everything mark to mark and it would not run on both cylinders. I tried over and over again, finally took it to a local shop and the same result. We call of local Harley dealer they said bring the cams by their shop. The mechanic wiped the cams off and who would have thought, they had two sets of timing marks. Someone at the factory had stamped them wrong and then they scratched in new ones. Put them in on the scratch marks and fired right up.
Harley also produced Nbr 3 cams that were stamped in the wrong place. Look for upcoming video on down and dirty cam timing check.
And parts book just great stuff you are one of two videos I watch it not the big things it all the little things thankyou
Awesome, thank you!
Great instructional video. Thank you!
You are welcome!
You're a Good Human. Thank you~~
Very informative video. Maybe you could extend this by showing how to remove/replace oil pump without removing the cam cover to incorporate the oil leak fixes you went through on your other videos.
I'm not sure I can do that... I'll think about it...
Greetings From Siberia There is no time like the present time to talk about timing . As always I hope that you and Peg are happy , healthy and doing well . Another first class video from the cast and crew of two from Ironhead Cycle World Headquarters . This is a fantastic demonstration of how to perform this very important engine rebuilding procedure . I' m sure that the thought of having to perform this task and install the cams could cause major stress for some individuals . There is nothing to fear here and if one was to follow along with what the Wizard of all things Ironhead is presenting here , they will be able to accomplish the task .I remember checking the breather timing on my 73 XLCH decades ago one winter. it was off , I retimed it and it has remained the same since then . i agree that Andrews cams have nice visable timing marks that make installation and set up much easier . I do know that some Factory replacement P cams are not marked correctly . How do I know this , because I have experienced this and I'm not the only one . Notice I said Factory replacement cams , not the ones that came in the bike when it left the factory . The factory I'm sure wouldn't let bikes leave that didn't run properly though like anything else it could be possible . The cams in question were a N.O.S. set of P cams that I purchases from someone that I had done business with for years . The cams were in a sealed box and brand new . When I installed them everything went real good until installing the number four exhaust cam .No matter how I positioned the cam I could never get it quite where I wanted it to be . After much fussing , I reassembled it knowing that it could be off slightly and that was about as good as it was ever going to be with the mark where it was . The bike was hard to start , made good power but I knew it wasn't right and took it apart to have another look . When I couldn't get it lined up like I wanted I did what anyone should do and that is to either take a break or call someone you know to come over and have them look at it . I had a good friend of mine who is a experienced Ironhead drag racer come over to see what he thought . He looked , agreed with me , did some fiddling and he moved it slightly and then left for me to finish putting it back together . Before he left he asked me what I was going to do if this didn't work out . My response was install a good known set of cams that I had previously used in the bike . After start up which again wasn't like it should be ,power was good but I knew this wasn't right . I took it apart again , took the cams out and reinstalled the previous set . The bike started with one kick and ran exceptionally well . Was I content with this , no , I was happy that the bike was now running like it should again but I had to know what was wrong . I knew that it was valve timing related but not sure what exactly was out . So I did what I always do when I have ideas but need some feedback . I made some calls . My first call was to where the cams were purchased , while in the midst of explaining to Don what was going on he said number four exhaust cam . I said yes ,he said he had seen this before while working on the bench over the years as a technician . I then called a well known and respected Harley engine builder that I had talked to many times over the years . Same scenario , before I could finish my explanation he had the same answer , number four exhaust cam . He also had run into this before . Dan then went on to tell me about a good friend of his who was also a respected builder that had just run into a issue with a big twin stroker he had built for a customer . After installation of the engine and running the bike the customer called and said the bike had no power . The builder looked at the bike , couldn't see anything obviously wrong and then called Dan . Dan looked at the bike and at first didn't see see anything wrong but upon a closer look he knew the valve timing was out . He pulled the cam out and the saw that there were two timing marks and one was harder to see . It was obvious at this point that the manufacturer caught the issue but didn't make the correct mark as visible as it should have been . The cam was reinstalled and the bike then ran and made power like it was supposed to .one reason this didn't get detected at first was because the builder had never run into this before . I remember reading where Bonnie Truett ran into the same thing with a engine he built for a customer and he had to figure it out .This can happen to anybody whether you are a professional or not . Just because a part is new doesn't mean that there isn't a defect somewhere . When I worked at the dealership years ago one of the owners brothers bought a brand new bagger and had a set of cams installed . The results were terrible , the power was down ,fuel mileage was down and the bike didn't perform as good as before the cam change . He brought it back, it was checked over but nothing was changed . He wasn't happy and waited until his brother was on vacation , then brought the stock cams and bike back in and had Jeff put the stock cams back in . Ed's intuition had been right and he was happy with the bike once again . I did some checking later on and found that the factory had sent out a service notice that some of these cam sets were not marked properly . I like your seal tool and I new where you were going with this before you even got there . We are a lot alike and think in a similar fashion . There is no replacement for experience , it takes a lifetime for this . I noticed no mention about the lack of cam shims . I don't use them as well and you don't need to . There was a Factory buletin for this . Well again I think the old Fossil has ranted enough for one session and Mya my fluffball Husky on teddy bear with teeth as I sometimes call her has gone to bed before me . Take Care My Friends . From The North Siberian Cycles Gary
Such great feed back,as you say experience.
The problem is that the experience is dying with us.
Most,not all of the younger generation, can't be bothered tinkering,they just want to ride.
I think in time all the old bikes will just be museum exhibits,like us and the dinosaurs
I've run across at least two nbr 3 cams that were not stamped correctly. After a new rebuild engine failed to start with near zero compression on the front jug I eventually figured out nbr 3 cam was not timed correctly even with the marks lined up. Now I do a down and dirty timing check on them after they are installed and can usually spot a cam that is grossly out out of time. I've been able to compare the suspect cams to a known good one and remark them correctly. Nothing is a better teacher than hard knocks.
There is more truth in that statement than there ought to be and more than we'd like to admit.
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I'll be making one of those seal drivers
Easy to do and makes putting the seals in a real snap!!!
Yes, Andrews, Sifton and other manufacturers put the timing marks where you actually time the damn thing correctly. At least Harley did put it on the right side of the gears... 😂. BTW, do you sell any of the tools you make ??? Please.... Great video on cam chest marks !
I don't usually make the tools to sell, usually there are more hours in making them than people are willing to pay for. How ever there is one you are especially interested in, please feel free to contact me. And thank you!!!
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What about when someone has red locktited an oil restriction into the pinion shaft (to limit oil flow to the rod bearings for the benefit of the top end)?
Sounds like a bad idea to me. The issue isn't really too much oil to rod bearings, but too much oil in crankcase. What guys usually do is block the rocker box returns to the crankcase (all you've got to do is turn the gaskets around to block the drain back holes) then drill the heads for external drain lines back to crankcase cavity below cam chest screen.
I'd get the restrictor out of the pinion one way or another, or, replace the pinion if I couldn't get it out.
Thank you for a great video. If the pinion gear is loose shuld it be replaced? Or will locktite bearing lock work to hold it in place? My first Ironhead 900.
I've been behind in answering comments, I see you asked again, I think I got you covered on your second try.
It's always good! I cannot ask the guy on the lift next to me anymore! Motorcycle Shops like The ones I worked at are gone! Tried to work at a Dealership again a few years ago and the soul and the experience I have has been replaced by a bunch of pussies that are not Motorcycle Enthusiasts! Torque Wrench experts that can't breathe fumes wear Full face helmets and God forbid if it is cold or rainy or snowing where have all the bikers gone?My small shop ain't dead yet!-Renegade
I used to work in a dirty greasy old Triumph shop. The trouble is there are no more of those around to season round mechanics.
I think you time the breather timing wrong because the whole is showing when you have all your cams assembled, I timed mine like you did with the book to the line and then everything lined up like yours did here in the breather timing was off and I pumped oil in the primary then I found out you use the third timing mark on the wheel whether it's a line Dr two dots always use the third mark so then when you assemble your cams at breather timing hold you showing them it'll be off to the right and I checked out to another motor I had and it was correct so basically the first time I did this I timed it to the first timing mark because that was a line and I needed to do. Instead which was the third timing Mark which was the front cylinder top dead center, so if you don't know which flywheel you have always use the third Mark am I correct on that? I know I was wrong doing it the other way
Call me a retart! at Top dead center on the Front Cylinder with all cams lined up my Front cylinder cam is up in the exaust position! I believe I may have a mis-matched cam! As I understand the Front Cylinder should be in Compression but the cam is up on the exaust.any help appreciated
I have personally seen at least 2 front intake cams with at least one of the marks stamped in the wrong spot. If you want to send me the cams I can compare them to a couple of sets that I have. Contact me here: www.ironheadcycle.com/pages/contact.html . For some reason RUclips had blocked your comment, I just found it in the "hold for review" tab.
Where were all those good men 20+yrs ago before you tube? reading our book's. the right way to fix shit .read mine like the bible. Highlighted my yr motor and yr frame .the cover has been missing for 18+ yrs every thing you need to know is blatantly on paper .
Love the Sunday morning rant and raves......
Yep, we used to have to READ the manual.
This is just poor quality control by Harley.
They must have had that much confidence in theirs motor that they thought nobody,would ever need to time it again.
Sorry to say this guy's,but the Japanese don't have these issues or the Italians,just slack bloody Harley.
Anyway after being involved with my son's Ironhead ,I have come to like the old girls.