if widow only had one shot at all then maybe he would have a point about the shield. unfortunately, anyone who has even ACCIDENTALLY spawned in as widowmaker would realize she can reload.
No dude, I have heard a gold Moira in the last minute of the game while we are losing saying : 'lucio you know you can speed up the cart with speedboost right?' In other words, Lucio should be on the cart, not killing a widow. Don't you listen to your teammates? Fyi, I understood at that point why the hell we where losing so bad lol. Because the Lucio response was wait really plz tell me that sooner. I asked them both if they where serious, it was unfortunately serious.
tiktoks that "shouldn't cook" is flats just talking for 20min about a 1min video. That's why I don't watch streamers, can't fast forward through the filler content
@@SuperLifestream thats why i watch smaller streamers, because there is almost no filler content AND you get the benefit of maybe even having an actual conversation with ppl because the chat isnt lightning fast
With the sole exception of widow mirror, this guy took "counter" to mean "characters that have an ability that may let them or their team survive if timed perfectly or played perfectly for a second or two and aren't totally helpless". That's not a counter, that's describing the most defensive last resort there is in the game...
Boy am I glad I never make any tiktoks related to Overwatch and don’t have a huge following on media. I would eventually be cooked into oblivion on flats’s channel. Stay mediocre kings
I find it hella funny cause only Bronze - low Gold players are the ones that make these tiktoks. High Gold to Diamond just watch what the masters-top 500 say about the game on youtube and twitch. Its really funny how skill in OW shows in social media presence.
Most OW content feels like its either people who suck at the game and think they're the shit or aspiring high rank players that parrot things people at the top say instead of coming to their own conclusions. Some people should just stay lurkers on social media and forums.
@@TheRedCap30 I think the top players have the sole right conclusions with a lot of stuff, and its worth parroting to help spread the word of it Other stuff thats a bit contraversial amongst the OW community should be discussed though with everyone's unique ideas regarding the issue. The best example of this imo is doomfist. (TLDR: buff slams CD, buff block)
He's a high skill ceiling hero that can do a lot as a tank, but he has a massive achielies heel in his CD rotations and block. Imo the man needs a lower CD for his slam, or have a lower slam CD only when cancels it to make his CD rotations a lot smoother and quicker without being too oppressive. Right now he relies way too much on the enemy team shooting him while he's blocking, and if they have 2 braincells to rub together they won't target you during your block, or it leaves you a sitting duck for any sort of CC to go your way, like ana nade or sleep dart. there's also the issue of him being too reliant on empowered punch in general, and his regular punches are just too weak to capitalise off of. There's no real solution to this since its a fine line to make him more appealing in midranks without him being oppressive in top 500, but its fustrating that you have to play him 100% perfectly for you to get any value out of him.
Don't forget sleepdart does 5 damage and nade i believe 50(not sure on nade) so you can actual sleep her, ask for a sym tp and Lucio speedboost and then kill her with the 75(shot) +35(melee)+50(nade)=170. Include the 5 damage from the sleepdart and you killed her. It's a great strat, totally worth playing sym against widow for on extremely long sightlines.
@@arbre_mystique nade does 60? Thx, my (gaming) laptop broke down haven't played in a while:S Gonna build a actual Pc on Saturday (it's gonna be a really sick upgrade)
I like how the reason he listed genji as a counter to widow as him having deflect. Reflecting a headshot required good aim, the widow hitting their shot, and you being incredibly lucky with timing on reflecting a hitscan shot that could be fired at any random moment. Genji can be considered a counter but it's because he has mobility to take flanks and dive quickly.
Mei is not a “hard counter” to Widow. But the only thing she can do is devalue her position when placing an Ice Wall, same with Tanks with shields like Ramattra, Sigma and Reinhardt. But at the same time, you are not providing value to your team if you are literally placing a wall in the front line
Yeah that hurt. Mei can mayyyyybe get in an icicke hs but she's at a huge disadvantage against a widow. But the brig one was WAAAAY worse. A good widow who is on high ground can literally hs a brig over her shield lol
Closing the gap to Widowmaker is the easiest way to kill her. Ice wall is an amazing option inorder to make space inorder to close the gap. So the reason Ice wall "counters" widow is because it closes and gap and makes widow do 1 of 2 things. 1. Retreat and find a new position 2. Die Either way you are denying her certain vantage points which is very strong. I don't understand why people disagree with this.
@@Koirittle The times widow is used in this game are on certain maps where denying 1 single vantage point does essentially nothing since she can just move to another good spot. And if it is a good widow you will probably die before you can even build that ice wall.
@@currantew7519 You make a really good point. I think conceptually Mei does counter widow, but given widows array of options on alot of maps (such as first point on kings row) denying her a vantage point is useless given that she has 3 other ones to choose from. So I guess currently Mei doesn't counter widow, but that isn't because Mei as a character is weak to widow but rather the maps giving widow too much freedom. Perhaps it's the maps faulty design instead of the heros. I'm not trying to say kings row is a badly designed map but I don't think widows power was thought about enough when designing the map. Or you could just remove the grappling hook and give her a junkrat trap like ablilty instead. To me this seems like the best option as it seems the problem with widow isn't her ability to control long site lines but rather that there are to many long site lines in the game in which she can control.
It's surprising how some people just don't understand counters in Overwatch. I was recently playing tank and Zarya was giving me trouble, so as a normal person, I picked Winston to get the edge, and one guy in my team was starting to blame his loss on me, because who the fuck would pick Winston against Zarya? We won that game :/
0:30 exactly which makes it annoying that people outside of Overwatch who only check in for a new hero are saying that season 3 is a bad season. Many games need a reevaluation/balance season and the earlier they intergrete the better (like how rainbow six seige once did as well yet never have again which many players dislike).
Flats so right about kiriko vs widow, you can just throw those kunai at her forehead since she has that 1/2 second of slowdown while scoped in, she gets messed on.
@Alex Aramayo it's much harder with Mei however because of the delay between clicking and shooting combined with her larger, more static hitbox. With kiriko, as flats said she has sway in her strafe, similar to Lucio making those headshots harder to hit on her when compared to Mei.
Actually, the scene that Flats mentioned with the Kraber still exists. If you're waiting for two teams to fight you can easily get an instant 1-shot once somebody takes enough damage. What they changed was the Kraber guaranteeing a 1-shot even on players with max level shields and max level helmet. So essentially, you can no longer initiate a fight with an instant 1-shot, which is overall much better for everyone.
@@aguyontheinternet8436 unless you get really unlucky, I once spent a whole game basically running for my life never having enough ammo or meds to fight so couldn’t kill people to take their gear. Was also being constantly chased so could never stop and loot. But yeah 90% of the time you got what you need.
I still disagree with the Kraber nerf because the gun was rare and hard to use let alone get headshots consistently, used to play the game a lot and the only time I ever popped off with the Kraber A. I was beaming people camping a building where the headshots and knocks didn't matter because we couldn't push them so they would get back up and B. I was drunk, so pushing into a building of campers with a kraber wasn't gonna do shit. Stupid nerf for a meme gun.
It’s almost like y’all are intentionally trying to misinterpret what he was saying. He was saying just because you’re top 500 doesn’t mean you know what’s best for the game in terms of balance not skill. That’s why he said “you might be more skilled”
to be fair to the last guy, I don't think he meant that top 500s are not better at the game then him, they obviously are that's why he says you are more skilled. But being top 500 does not make your enjoyment of the game more important, yes widow is op in gm or maybe masters, but the majority of the player base is in the lower ranks where widow is not as strong because people are not as skilled. I don't think the devs should s ride the content creators and pros because something that is fun for the majority of the player base might be op in the higher ranks. this isn't just about widow, I understand the issue with the one shot and although I like playing her and i don't mind playing against her because I'm not that high ranked, if she gets a cool rework that makes her even more fun I would not complain. The problem is that because top 500 and cc have more voice the changes they ask for are more represented, also with the their fans that don't even know what they are asking for, sometimes it works out with for example roadhog, but if the devs only listen to the pros and cc it might make the game a bit soulless and drive away the casuals, that wont even be good for the pros because a dead game don't make no bread. In conclusion I think the point is that although if your some one like flats you might have a better understanding of the game, want you want for the game and all your opinions on it are not immediately better and your enjoyment of the game is not more important than some one else just because you are better, it kinda sounds arrogant to say
@@TherealAGHven this is disagreeable lmao. top 500 is better in every way including thoughts on balance than this bronze kid who thinks brig counters widow💀
@@imSovi take that up with TikTok guy I’m just addressing the fact that flats and people in the comments misinterpreted what dude said something crazy. Plus just because you’re good at something doesn’t make you an authority on it top 500 players can be just as wrong as anybody
Even as a peasant plat player, I had so much trouble understanding his counter picks and his reasoning behind them, as well as what he said about top 500….this man lost all rights to even smell the food being cooked
I can understand the appeal of one-shots in any game, but you really have to be careful with them. No one finds getting domed from across the map by someone you need an 8x zoom scope fun. Getting Pinned by Rein, while annoying after a few times in one match, can be funny if it comes from a shocking spot or the Rein ends up running himself off the map also. If you can make the one-shot fun to fight and not the only way a person can kill you with a specific weapon/character then it can be seen as fine.
8:28 queue that moment from a recent Havana game with seagull on brig and flats losing the widow duel behind him (literally funniest clip, I luv you flats)
As a Baptiste main who is forced to play bap into widow a lot of times this meta, to that one guy all I gotta say is please please never fucking cook again. Im calling the health inspector.
I hated Gold Knockdown because literally every time I manage to get it, I never get to use it, I usually get rushed and squad wiped instantly or just can't get it off in time before they just execute me.
I still truly believe that Respawn is not doing nearly enough to bring back veteran players but are doing a good job giving new players something to chew on. Peak player counts are great but player retention is so much more valuable for the health of a game.
It is also the loudest gun in the game and puts you damn near 1 shot if hit. The krabers strength used to be getting a free knock but now it’s turning a 3v3 into a 3v2 based on the fact one of there team mates ran off because he only has 55 hp left.
The other difference is that Widow is a hero you can pick at any time, and kraber is something you have to get lucky to get. The second part might not be the best for competitive environment to be frank, but the point is, access to it is limited. Still dunno about kraber nerf tbh, cant really say it was necessary.
to addon the kraber part. The care packages are the only way to obtain krabers, with high skill gameplay people were holding areas and fighting is extremely slow. Meaning no on pushes eachother, and if a care package with kraber landed on your team no one can contest it.
On the aggregate, I think there can be an argument that Apex and Siege pros did negatively impact the game. "Ruined" is a bit bold. I gotta say though as far as the overwatch "pros" (i.e. High ranked influencers) are pretty good understanding the ranked experience across all ranks and take that into account
siege pros have actively called out changes that Ubi has made. the one i remember so well is buck losing frags. even the pros were like "what the fuck". however quite a few nerfs that happened because of pros make sense. Goyo having 4 deployable shields with the bonus effect of having area denial was ridiculous
The Kraber isn't hit scan tho. The should've slapped a laser on it like Vantage ult imo. It's still incredibly punishing to get hit by but the actual frustrating aspect of the Kraber was indeed getting one shot *with no warning*.
I love out-widowing the widow with zen (zen is definitely not a widow counter because point and click zen ded) but if the widow stands too still and you're aware of her you just 2 tap her
That first dude is straight up from the forums. The amount of cluelessness is beyond imaginable. Just because a hero is designed in a way, it doesn't mean it will always work that way. Sombra is designed to destroy backlines, but it almost never happens. Ana is a sniper, but it doesn't mean you can snipe widow down. In fact widow is a nightmare for a scoped ana. I will always gladly punish anas who seriously want to duel me on distance.
I played Apex during the time of Self-Rez Gold Knockdowns, and whilst I never really played Apex competitively, even regular casual lobbies had plenty of situations where having the Gold Knockdown was the win-or-lose situation of the fight. I've only just came back to Apex after skipping past Season 15, and even then casual lobbies are still one heck of a sweat-fest at times.
I still play Apex a lot, one shots were reduced with Kraber nerf and helmet buff but they're not out of the game at all. The changes they did made time to kill higher though and I guess that's a step in the right direction. Gold knockdown self-revive needed to go though, it was ridiculously gimmicky and stupid to use even in the casual part of the game. It was almost always a get out of jail free card for someone who lost their 1v1 and it really encouraged the rat behaviour. Not that rats aren't still a problem but the fact that they can now safely be eliminated without getting the chance of a free win is a big W in my opinion. But as for OW: one shots suck to play against, anyone will tell you that. But it's not a hill I'm gonna die fighting on. I *will* however keep fighting on that hill to get Zen's discord orb reworked though lmao.
Tbf i had the same copium as a Ramattra player with my friends. “They have a widow? I’ll put a shield down to push her further into line of sight! What happens after the time? Fuck off. Let me play my punchy boy”
I honestly think that the biggest issue with one shots is that tanks were always the counter for them in OW1. With one tank... Not so fun to fight against.
I know this was a month ago, but on the Kraber 1 shot, it was so powerful that when a care package was coming half the lobby would go to it, inciting fights. You want it on your team, so you would fight through 4 - 5 squads to get it. Hearing a Kraber shot or seeing it in the kill feed put a bit of excitement in the players' heart, the thought of wiping the team that had it, and rushing to loot the red box before your teammates and getting your hands on it. Was it fair in the endgame (when the guy sitting behind a rock with the charge rifle is beaming like a b***h) and you 1 shot him? No. But it was good for the game as it would bring squads closer together, especially large maps like Storm Point. You never see anyone! When you see that orange beam in the sky, you would run towards it, same as all the other squads in the lobby. Now you just ignore it because you know it is a hemlock.
with apex they had a system with loot crates, and basically after the storm had closed a certain amount, the boxes wouldn't drop heals or guns or both idk but that made it so people don't play like they're meming in fortnite by chilling in storm with infinite heals, I think removing the self res after a certain zone would be a good thing to experiment.
Every take was performed in the most vacuous of vacuums where there would be so little reaction from the Widow it gives the firing range dummies concern about their job security
From someone who plays apex alot, have been playing since season 0 (yes season 0 was a thing) Yes I was deeply sadden when they changed the gold knockdown. I do miss it as well as a bunch of old stuff like og skulltowm. It was fun, it was great to help to my team in the game and clutch up at times. BUT it was genuinely good and much deserved change Edit- discussed kraber in comments
Kraber is still a one shot depending on your kit Blue helm+red shield Or purp helm + purp/gold Helmets reduce headshot dmg And if you play rampart. A character who places a wall that can amply like bap ult or block dmg like a rein shield. That dmg boost still makes kraber 1-shot in any scenario. Outside maybe a arm shield thick Boi. And much like overwatch being one shot leaves no counterplay and is unhealthy for the game, especially for teambased games like overwatch and apex. It was a necessary change.
Gotta love how the dude just brings back dps moira as a counter pick to widow. Meanwhile you can just imagine them fading into the enemies backline and end up being in a 1v2 with no way out.
I didn't play at all for like 2 months because OW would just freeze for some reason, and I was barely playing Brig before that. So I picked her the other day without realizing her shield is only 300hp and I'm pretty sure I blocked like 30 damage and she goes "My shield won't last much longer" or something and I was like "That was like one bullet!"
From what I've experienced in comp is that if you run a really good widow in Defense (sometimes even capture point or push) while having a friendly Reaper to protect her, there is next to nothing the enemy team can do to fight against that. Every DPS character gets out damaged or can't fight with the effective range, supports are forced to stay in the back and every single tank gets shredded into grated cheese. The only 2 characters that have been able to consistently been able to fight against it has been Doomfist and Sombra which both comes with the downsides of playing the worst flanker in the game and mr. And dey say balance is dead. If Widow can land at least 40% of her shots, you objectively should not lose running this. It's so stupid.
You should get a whole group of GM players together to do a 5v5 with that guy on one of the teams and see if he's right in that the high level players "don't know what they are talking about"
Only thing brig can do against widow is corner peak with her shield to show teammates where widow is but that's about it. Also "being in top 500 doesn't mean you are better than the rest" has same vibe as "you think you are better than me just because you are better than me?"
So hear me out: in mid to lower elo's Mei can, in a roundabout way, contest a widow. Though I wouldn't necessarily call it countering a widow. Her wall can be used to block off the widows line of attack, and she has enough hp/self healing that a widow who's hitting body shots instead of head shots (once again, mid/low elo) can survive an exchange if she's landing a head shot and a body shot. And she has the added benefit of having a projectile that she can aim where the widow will strafe, instead of trying to line up a slow shooting hit scan on a moving target. Doing this isn't the cleanest way to fight a widow, but in lower elo's some times it's the only way because your other dps is trying to duel her as a widow and failing, well the tank thinks that they should be exclusively fighting the other tank before targeting anyone else, and the supports are running out and getting their heads popped because they want to pocket the tank and don't know how to do it from cover. But overall, that's a low elo situation, and one shots start becoming more of a nuisance at gold and up, being progressively worse the higher you go. P.S: Nerf Sojourn.
Out of the healers it’s really just Lucio and kiriko that have a chance to kill widow. zen and Ana have the dps but are also stupid easy targets. You can say Moira but you get a widow that runs to their team or a team that peels, Moira,s damage will get out healed and bap has disgusting damage drop off.
As an apex ranked grinder, the gold knockdown change was one of the best, yet saddest changes made to the game. I would like to see self res come back in the same form for pubs or an LTM in the future though. Keep that shit far away from ranked. Another thing-if you we 1v1 for the win and had gold knockdown there was a solid chance you could lose the gunfight and still win the game because going down gives you another 100 heath, and ring doesn’t damage shields. So you would lose the gun fight and still win because they died to ring without gold knock. It was really an apex experience
Not even including Lucio in the support counters to widow is absolutely insane, that is literally like his whole thing Not including Hanzo or Ashe as counters to widow is kind of wild too
"Brig has a shield."
Bro is high out of his mind on that shield copeium.
Brig can help a widow beat another widow with free pings and shielding, so at best she is an adjunct.
He is out his damn mind
6v6 life be like
Brother thinks we’re in a double shield meta still
@@gio4931 bro tryna hit the Brig Rammatra double shield and wonder why he's Wooden 0
if widow only had one shot at all then maybe he would have a point about the shield. unfortunately, anyone who has even ACCIDENTALLY spawned in as widowmaker would realize she can reload.
we all know lucio is the best widow counter
Lucio best DPS ❤
Nope, it's the valk mercy
Nah junkrat is
I think he is okay against widow
No dude, I have heard a gold Moira in the last minute of the game while we are losing saying : 'lucio you know you can speed up the cart with speedboost right?'
In other words, Lucio should be on the cart, not killing a widow. Don't you listen to your teammates?
Fyi, I understood at that point why the hell we where losing so bad lol. Because the Lucio response was wait really plz tell me that sooner. I asked them both if they where serious, it was unfortunately serious.
Dude's take was so off he got an entire video dedicated to him.
It's like Gordon Ramsay making a full tv show just to dunk on one restaurant
tiktoks that "shouldn't cook" is flats just talking for 20min about a 1min video. That's why I don't watch streamers, can't fast forward through the filler content
@@SuperLifestream thats why i watch smaller streamers, because there is almost no filler content AND you get the benefit of maybe even having an actual conversation with ppl because the chat isnt lightning fast
@@SuperLifestream Tbf, this is why clips are popular. A more condensed form of strimmer content is what people want.
how did i not even realize that it was one tiktok. omg. i was invested i guess.
We now need a hero that yells "Senzu Bean" and throws them at people to heal them and reduce their cooldowns.
W reference
Did you just throw a dog biscuit at me?
Idk, that support would constantly get owned enough to have their own owned counter
Quack
i love you and everyone who gets this reference
With the sole exception of widow mirror, this guy took "counter" to mean "characters that have an ability that may let them or their team survive if timed perfectly or played perfectly for a second or two and aren't totally helpless".
That's not a counter, that's describing the most defensive last resort there is in the game...
Flats unintentionally asking to 1v1 orange shirt guy got me dead.
Omg imagine Kiriko trying to time her 1 second of invulnerability to counter a headshot from across the map. Fucking 3000IQ
fucking 0iq!!!
Boy am I glad I never make any tiktoks related to Overwatch and don’t have a huge following on media. I would eventually be cooked into oblivion on flats’s channel. Stay mediocre kings
I find it hella funny cause only Bronze - low Gold players are the ones that make these tiktoks. High Gold to Diamond just watch what the masters-top 500 say about the game on youtube and twitch. Its really funny how skill in OW shows in social media presence.
Most OW content feels like its either people who suck at the game and think they're the shit or aspiring high rank players that parrot things people at the top say instead of coming to their own conclusions. Some people should just stay lurkers on social media and forums.
Amen. Stay mediocre, brother 😆
@@TheRedCap30 I think the top players have the sole right conclusions with a lot of stuff, and its worth parroting to help spread the word of it
Other stuff thats a bit contraversial amongst the OW community should be discussed though with everyone's unique ideas regarding the issue. The best example of this imo is doomfist.
(TLDR: buff slams CD, buff block)
He's a high skill ceiling hero that can do a lot as a tank, but he has a massive achielies heel in his CD rotations and block. Imo the man needs a lower CD for his slam, or have a lower slam CD only when cancels it to make his CD rotations a lot smoother and quicker without being too oppressive.
Right now he relies way too much on the enemy team shooting him while he's blocking, and if they have 2 braincells to rub together they won't target you during your block, or it leaves you a sitting duck for any sort of CC to go your way, like ana nade or sleep dart.
there's also the issue of him being too reliant on empowered punch in general, and his regular punches are just too weak to capitalise off of.
There's no real solution to this since its a fine line to make him more appealing in midranks without him being oppressive in top 500, but its fustrating that you have to play him 100% perfectly for you to get any value out of him.
Streamers didn't 'ruin' Apex, EA did, I want my Titanfall 3
Tf3 is an illusion, let your dreams die.
EA + Streamers
@@DemonRules ruclips.net/video/YBJhzfvdyKw/видео.html
the children yearn for titanfall
Flats said season 15 but its 16
These video reminds me that not everyone who can talk should talk
"the ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" looking real relevant
that should be the tiktok slogan imo
Well I mean do you wanna be someone who doesn't talk their entire life?
@@SadMatte Some people shouldn't allowed to be talk forever.
@@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong
True
just an FYI if anyone missed this, Ana does not two tap Widow. Widow's 175hp and takes 3 shots from Ana's 75 dmg like any normal 200-225hp squishy
Yeah widow craps on Ana
Don't forget sleepdart does 5 damage and nade i believe 50(not sure on nade) so you can actual sleep her, ask for a sym tp and Lucio speedboost and then kill her with the 75(shot) +35(melee)+50(nade)=170. Include the 5 damage from the sleepdart and you killed her. It's a great strat, totally worth playing sym against widow for on extremely long sightlines.
Just damage boost her ez
@@Siks7Ate9 60
@@arbre_mystique nade does 60? Thx, my (gaming) laptop broke down haven't played in a while:S
Gonna build a actual Pc on Saturday (it's gonna be a really sick upgrade)
I like how the reason he listed genji as a counter to widow as him having deflect. Reflecting a headshot required good aim, the widow hitting their shot, and you being incredibly lucky with timing on reflecting a hitscan shot that could be fired at any random moment. Genji can be considered a counter but it's because he has mobility to take flanks and dive quickly.
Don't worry. Bap and Kiriko can just use immortality and suzu for every shot Widow takes. No big deal.
@@CopShowGuy lol don't forget the brig and rein shield+ rein can firestrike her and it definitely won't kill the ana behind his shield
Mei apparently countering Widow had me deceased frrr 💀
Mei is not a “hard counter” to Widow. But the only thing she can do is devalue her position when placing an Ice Wall, same with Tanks with shields like Ramattra, Sigma and Reinhardt. But at the same time, you are not providing value to your team if you are literally placing a wall in the front line
Yeah that hurt. Mei can mayyyyybe get in an icicke hs but she's at a huge disadvantage against a widow. But the brig one was WAAAAY worse. A good widow who is on high ground can literally hs a brig over her shield lol
Closing the gap to Widowmaker is the easiest way to kill her. Ice wall is an amazing option inorder to make space inorder to close the gap. So the reason Ice wall "counters" widow is because it closes and gap and makes widow do 1 of 2 things.
1. Retreat and find a new position
2. Die
Either way you are denying her certain vantage points which is very strong. I don't understand why people disagree with this.
@@Koirittle The times widow is used in this game are on certain maps where denying 1 single vantage point does essentially nothing since she can just move to another good spot. And if it is a good widow you will probably die before you can even build that ice wall.
@@currantew7519 You make a really good point. I think conceptually Mei does counter widow, but given widows array of options on alot of maps (such as first point on kings row) denying her a vantage point is useless given that she has 3 other ones to choose from. So I guess currently Mei doesn't counter widow, but that isn't because Mei as a character is weak to widow but rather the maps giving widow too much freedom.
Perhaps it's the maps faulty design instead of the heros. I'm not trying to say kings row is a badly designed map but I don't think widows power was thought about enough when designing the map.
Or you could just remove the grappling hook and give her a junkrat trap like ablilty instead. To me this seems like the best option as it seems the problem with widow isn't her ability to control long site lines but rather that there are to many long site lines in the game in which she can control.
I love that 80% of the video is flats talking about the first tik tok lmaoo
To be fair, there was a LOT to unpack there
It was literally the entire video, and this dude got fucken burnt to LESS THAN ASHES.
pretty sure it was 100% lol
@@hg_aneh i like ur username
Honestly, sniping Widows as Kiriko is so damn satisfying xd
I always win over her when i play kiriko, its so fun
Imagine this guy joins your lobby and whips out the Brig against Widow
It's surprising how some people just don't understand counters in Overwatch. I was recently playing tank and Zarya was giving me trouble, so as a normal person, I picked Winston to get the edge, and one guy in my team was starting to blame his loss on me, because who the fuck would pick Winston against Zarya? We won that game :/
0:30 exactly which makes it annoying that people outside of Overwatch who only check in for a new hero are saying that season 3 is a bad season. Many games need a reevaluation/balance season and the earlier they intergrete the better (like how rainbow six seige once did as well yet never have again which many players dislike).
Siege is a bad example, operation health failed to actually fix much.
No Lucio for Widow counters? Frogger would be offended
I malded for a little when he didn't include Lucio ngl
This man probably can't play Lució is the issue so not a surprise, and shit like mei countering widow is eek
The only way brig counters widow is just staring at her and pinging her.
bro who left the stove on 💀
I think we should be more concerned with what type of cake he baked.
"Oh no, they have a Widow! Quickly, everyone line up behind Brig!"
LMAO
Tbf I do like to "pocket" shield my widow with Brig when she's duelling BC it eats at least 2 shots for free
Flats so right about kiriko vs widow, you can just throw those kunai at her forehead since she has that 1/2 second of slowdown while scoped in, she gets messed on.
Mei can 2 tap her as well & she actually doesn't require 2 consecutive crits
@Alex Aramayo it's much harder with Mei however because of the delay between clicking and shooting combined with her larger, more static hitbox. With kiriko, as flats said she has sway in her strafe, similar to Lucio making those headshots harder to hit on her when compared to Mei.
Actually, the scene that Flats mentioned with the Kraber still exists. If you're waiting for two teams to fight you can easily get an instant 1-shot once somebody takes enough damage. What they changed was the Kraber guaranteeing a 1-shot even on players with max level shields and max level helmet. So essentially, you can no longer initiate a fight with an instant 1-shot, which is overall much better for everyone.
Yeah if I’m not wrong it’s just the helmets. Like you need a red Evo and purple/gold helmet to live through the one shot headshot.
@@theblueone_14 it’s red armor and blue helm, or purple armor and purple helm
@@longliveyheking98 So like stuff that everyone will have endgame
@@aguyontheinternet8436 unless you get really unlucky, I once spent a whole game basically running for my life never having enough ammo or meds to fight so couldn’t kill people to take their gear. Was also being constantly chased so could never stop and loot. But yeah 90% of the time you got what you need.
I still disagree with the Kraber nerf because the gun was rare and hard to use let alone get headshots consistently, used to play the game a lot and the only time I ever popped off with the Kraber A. I was beaming people camping a building where the headshots and knocks didn't matter because we couldn't push them so they would get back up and B. I was drunk, so pushing into a building of campers with a kraber wasn't gonna do shit. Stupid nerf for a meme gun.
"being top 500 doesn't make you better than anyone else" haha
Then he proceeds to say "you might be more skilled" as if thats not the same thing as being better
It’s almost like y’all are intentionally trying to misinterpret what he was saying. He was saying just because you’re top 500 doesn’t mean you know what’s best for the game in terms of balance not skill. That’s why he said “you might be more skilled”
to be fair to the last guy, I don't think he meant that top 500s are not better at the game then him, they obviously are that's why he says you are more skilled. But being top 500 does not make your enjoyment of the game more important, yes widow is op in gm or maybe masters, but the majority of the player base is in the lower ranks where widow is not as strong because people are not as skilled. I don't think the devs should s ride the content creators and pros because something that is fun for the majority of the player base might be op in the higher ranks. this isn't just about widow, I understand the issue with the one shot and although I like playing her and i don't mind playing against her because I'm not that high ranked, if she gets a cool rework that makes her even more fun I would not complain. The problem is that because top 500 and cc have more voice the changes they ask for are more represented, also with the their fans that don't even know what they are asking for, sometimes it works out with for example roadhog, but if the devs only listen to the pros and cc it might make the game a bit soulless and drive away the casuals, that wont even be good for the pros because a dead game don't make no bread. In conclusion I think the point is that although if your some one like flats you might have a better understanding of the game, want you want for the game and all your opinions on it are not immediately better and your enjoyment of the game is not more important than some one else just because you are better, it kinda sounds arrogant to say
@@TherealAGHven this is disagreeable lmao. top 500 is better in every way including thoughts on balance than this bronze kid who thinks brig counters widow💀
@@imSovi take that up with TikTok guy I’m just addressing the fact that flats and people in the comments misinterpreted what dude said something crazy. Plus just because you’re good at something doesn’t make you an authority on it top 500 players can be just as wrong as anybody
You know flats meant it when he said don't cook again if he made a whole video for dedicated to one take.
Even as a peasant plat player, I had so much trouble understanding his counter picks and his reasoning behind them, as well as what he said about top 500….this man lost all rights to even smell the food being cooked
Man has Covid
I can understand the appeal of one-shots in any game, but you really have to be careful with them. No one finds getting domed from across the map by someone you need an 8x zoom scope fun. Getting Pinned by Rein, while annoying after a few times in one match, can be funny if it comes from a shocking spot or the Rein ends up running himself off the map also. If you can make the one-shot fun to fight and not the only way a person can kill you with a specific weapon/character then it can be seen as fine.
The first guy did not burn the meal, he destroyed the kitchen
"Being top 500 does not make you better than anyone else."
Bish thats what the ranks for
8:28 queue that moment from a recent Havana game with seagull on brig and flats losing the widow duel behind him (literally funniest clip, I luv you flats)
ruclips.net/video/EmyZjSbDvs4/видео.html
At 10:34 in this video
You actually made a whole video for him, poor dude .
Got completely destroyed
As a Baptiste main who is forced to play bap into widow a lot of times this meta, to that one guy all I gotta say is please please never fucking cook again. Im calling the health inspector.
Bro tiktoks? Tiktok. Singular. You killed this man alone
"want to test that theory at your earliest convenience." is undoubtedly the best 1v1 threat I have ever heard holy shit.
I hated Gold Knockdown because literally every time I manage to get it, I never get to use it, I usually get rushed and squad wiped instantly or just can't get it off in time before they just execute me.
Wait flats just compared himself to a rocket scientist lmfao
"can conceivably tickle widow a bit" isn't a counter
I love how it was only one tiktok video.
"Tiktoks that should never cook again"
Is literally only one Tiktok.
Admittedly, he spent 3 minutes being flat out wrong and needed to be school
@@A_Crab_YT True
I still truly believe that Respawn is not doing nearly enough to bring back veteran players but are doing a good job giving new players something to chew on. Peak player counts are great but player retention is so much more valuable for the health of a game.
The comment saying reaper counters widow has to be the wildest part of this video tbh
ISTG a good player with a sniper is the most terrifying thing to people with overinflated egos. prime example right here
The difference between widow and kraber is that it's a projectile with drop and short travel time iirc
It is also the loudest gun in the game and puts you damn near 1 shot if hit. The krabers strength used to be getting a free knock but now it’s turning a 3v3 into a 3v2 based on the fact one of there team mates ran off because he only has 55 hp left.
The other difference is that Widow is a hero you can pick at any time, and kraber is something you have to get lucky to get. The second part might not be the best for competitive environment to be frank, but the point is, access to it is limited. Still dunno about kraber nerf tbh, cant really say it was necessary.
Fr it actually takes skill to land a longe range kraber shot
Hitscan barely requires skill and is majorly over rewarded for how easy it is
"You wanna test that theory at your earliest convenience?"
My sides. lmao
Hearing that guy suggest mei as a widow counter had the same energy as gordon ramsay finding out all of the food in a restaurant was frozen
How did he not list Lucio bro is the actual widow slayers of all time
to addon the kraber part. The care packages are the only way to obtain krabers, with high skill gameplay people were holding areas and fighting is extremely slow. Meaning no on pushes eachother, and if a care package with kraber landed on your team no one can contest it.
I'm so glad flats was explaining these Apex stuff instead of just mentioning it and moving on, i literally haven't played it since launch
I likes flats because he has knowledge of R6 Overwatch and Apex it’s actually insane
On the aggregate, I think there can be an argument that Apex and Siege pros did negatively impact the game. "Ruined" is a bit bold. I gotta say though as far as the overwatch "pros" (i.e. High ranked influencers) are pretty good understanding the ranked experience across all ranks and take that into account
siege pros have actively called out changes that Ubi has made. the one i remember so well is buck losing frags. even the pros were like "what the fuck". however quite a few nerfs that happened because of pros make sense. Goyo having 4 deployable shields with the bonus effect of having area denial was ridiculous
What did Apex pros do? Basically none of the changes significantly affected casual play. Respawn does a good job balancing high level vs low level.
Im honestly surprised he didn't say Ana counters widow because she has a sniper as well 😵
The Kraber isn't hit scan tho. The should've slapped a laser on it like Vantage ult imo. It's still incredibly punishing to get hit by but the actual frustrating aspect of the Kraber was indeed getting one shot *with no warning*.
"Top 500 doesn't mean you're better than everyone else." I'm following this guy for more comedy!
Holy shit this man making wildfires
I love out-widowing the widow with zen (zen is definitely not a widow counter because point and click zen ded) but if the widow stands too still and you're aware of her you just 2 tap her
Ah yes the low health shield melee character will counter the long range one shot half the cast killing sniper character😮
Widow oneshots discordred ram in an omnic form, btw. All 100% goes down. A dps can oneshot a tank, and now it's a zen meta, don't forget.
That first dude is straight up from the forums. The amount of cluelessness is beyond imaginable. Just because a hero is designed in a way, it doesn't mean it will always work that way. Sombra is designed to destroy backlines, but it almost never happens. Ana is a sniper, but it doesn't mean you can snipe widow down. In fact widow is a nightmare for a scoped ana. I will always gladly punish anas who seriously want to duel me on distance.
9:55 I dont think he meant better player he's saying being top500 doesn't make you a better PERSON
The top 500 take slayed me. In a Cass mirror, Flats could spot me 8 kills in a first to 10 and 9 times out of 10 he still wins. I'm bronze 1 dps
I played Apex during the time of Self-Rez Gold Knockdowns, and whilst I never really played Apex competitively, even regular casual lobbies had plenty of situations where having the Gold Knockdown was the win-or-lose situation of the fight. I've only just came back to Apex after skipping past Season 15, and even then casual lobbies are still one heck of a sweat-fest at times.
I swear time accelerates during these tik tok vids... that was the shortest 13 minutes of my life
I still play Apex a lot, one shots were reduced with Kraber nerf and helmet buff but they're not out of the game at all. The changes they did made time to kill higher though and I guess that's a step in the right direction. Gold knockdown self-revive needed to go though, it was ridiculously gimmicky and stupid to use even in the casual part of the game. It was almost always a get out of jail free card for someone who lost their 1v1 and it really encouraged the rat behaviour. Not that rats aren't still a problem but the fact that they can now safely be eliminated without getting the chance of a free win is a big W in my opinion.
But as for OW: one shots suck to play against, anyone will tell you that. But it's not a hill I'm gonna die fighting on. I *will* however keep fighting on that hill to get Zen's discord orb reworked though lmao.
Tbf i had the same copium as a Ramattra player with my friends.
“They have a widow? I’ll put a shield down to push her further into line of sight! What happens after the time? Fuck off. Let me play my punchy boy”
You this shit got me questioning that whole ‘everyone has a right to an opinion’ thing.
the moment I heard his cooked Apex take to preface the TikTok, I knew his overwatch takes were going to give me permanent brain damage. Wow.
I honestly think that the biggest issue with one shots is that tanks were always the counter for them in OW1. With one tank... Not so fun to fight against.
I love how the title makes it seem like it isn’t just 12 minutes of Flats dunking on a single video
This entire video is flats roasting this guy LMAO
🔥
Him saying flank Moira counters widow is exactly what surefour said.
I know this was a month ago, but on the Kraber 1 shot, it was so powerful that when a care package was coming half the lobby would go to it, inciting fights. You want it on your team, so you would fight through 4 - 5 squads to get it. Hearing a Kraber shot or seeing it in the kill feed put a bit of excitement in the players' heart, the thought of wiping the team that had it, and rushing to loot the red box before your teammates and getting your hands on it. Was it fair in the endgame (when the guy sitting behind a rock with the charge rifle is beaming like a b***h) and you 1 shot him? No. But it was good for the game as it would bring squads closer together, especially large maps like Storm Point. You never see anyone! When you see that orange beam in the sky, you would run towards it, same as all the other squads in the lobby. Now you just ignore it because you know it is a hemlock.
with apex they had a system with loot crates, and basically after the storm had closed a certain amount, the boxes wouldn't drop heals or guns or both idk but that made it so people don't play like they're meming in fortnite by chilling in storm with infinite heals, I think removing the self res after a certain zone would be a good thing to experiment.
Mei be like: "yeah ima build a wa-" headshot
The metal ranks will frontline as widows, die to a hero once and say it’s a counter to her
Every take was performed in the most vacuous of vacuums where there would be so little reaction from the Widow it gives the firing range dummies concern about their job security
From someone who plays apex alot, have been playing since season 0 (yes season 0 was a thing)
Yes I was deeply sadden when they changed the gold knockdown. I do miss it as well as a bunch of old stuff like og skulltowm. It was fun, it was great to help to my team in the game and clutch up at times.
BUT it was genuinely good and much deserved change
Edit- discussed kraber in comments
Kraber is still a one shot depending on your kit
Blue helm+red shield
Or
purp helm + purp/gold
Helmets reduce headshot dmg
And if you play rampart. A character who places a wall that can amply like bap ult or block dmg like a rein shield.
That dmg boost still makes kraber 1-shot in any scenario. Outside maybe a arm shield thick Boi.
And much like overwatch being one shot leaves no counterplay and is unhealthy for the game, especially for teambased games like overwatch and apex.
It was a necessary change.
Us Zen mains know that zen is the best counter to widow, all it takes is for her to miss one shot or shoot someone else and they get deleted
Gotta love how the dude just brings back dps moira as a counter pick to widow. Meanwhile you can just imagine them fading into the enemies backline and end up being in a 1v2 with no way out.
Not to mention a good widow will just dome you before you get to kill her on Moira
Moira only counters bad Widows
Why didn't I think of that, "ice cube" is clearly a widow counter.
Bro so bad at cooking it took an entire youtube video to explain why hes wrong
That one guy didnt even say Hanzo for Widowmaker counterplay
I didn't play at all for like 2 months because OW would just freeze for some reason, and I was barely playing Brig before that. So I picked her the other day without realizing her shield is only 300hp and I'm pretty sure I blocked like 30 damage and she goes "My shield won't last much longer" or something and I was like "That was like one bullet!"
From what I've experienced in comp is that if you run a really good widow in Defense (sometimes even capture point or push) while having a friendly Reaper to protect her, there is next to nothing the enemy team can do to fight against that. Every DPS character gets out damaged or can't fight with the effective range, supports are forced to stay in the back and every single tank gets shredded into grated cheese. The only 2 characters that have been able to consistently been able to fight against it has been Doomfist and Sombra which both comes with the downsides of playing the worst flanker in the game and mr. And dey say balance is dead. If Widow can land at least 40% of her shots, you objectively should not lose running this. It's so stupid.
You should get a whole group of GM players together to do a 5v5 with that guy on one of the teams and see if he's right in that the high level players "don't know what they are talking about"
I was expecting more tiktok in this video because the title says "tiktoks" then it turns out it was about only one tiktok
Only thing brig can do against widow is corner peak with her shield to show teammates where widow is but that's about it. Also "being in top 500 doesn't mean you are better than the rest" has same vibe as "you think you are better than me just because you are better than me?"
"I'm on the wrong side of tiktok right now."
Thats a good portion of tiktok it seems
that man was 100% a widow main who just never shot a shield in his life
”Being top 500 doesn’t mean you are better. It means you have more skill”
Kiriko's knifes can be scary as widow.
So hear me out: in mid to lower elo's Mei can, in a roundabout way, contest a widow. Though I wouldn't necessarily call it countering a widow. Her wall can be used to block off the widows line of attack, and she has enough hp/self healing that a widow who's hitting body shots instead of head shots (once again, mid/low elo) can survive an exchange if she's landing a head shot and a body shot. And she has the added benefit of having a projectile that she can aim where the widow will strafe, instead of trying to line up a slow shooting hit scan on a moving target. Doing this isn't the cleanest way to fight a widow, but in lower elo's some times it's the only way because your other dps is trying to duel her as a widow and failing, well the tank thinks that they should be exclusively fighting the other tank before targeting anyone else, and the supports are running out and getting their heads popped because they want to pocket the tank and don't know how to do it from cover. But overall, that's a low elo situation, and one shots start becoming more of a nuisance at gold and up, being progressively worse the higher you go.
P.S: Nerf Sojourn.
Flats just mad he wasn't the one who realized brig counters widow
Out of the healers it’s really just Lucio and kiriko that have a chance to kill widow. zen and Ana have the dps but are also stupid easy targets. You can say Moira but you get a widow that runs to their team or a team that peels, Moira,s damage will get out healed and bap has disgusting damage drop off.
I don’t want to see this guy even near a kitchen ever again
"Tik Toks That Should Have Never Touched The Pot To Begin With"
this is the guy in silver that yells at the tank for not shielding when they are playing soldier walking in a straight line getting beamed in the head
Is this the new sheeeesh that Flats can't stop using in every video lol
As an apex ranked grinder, the gold knockdown change was one of the best, yet saddest changes made to the game.
I would like to see self res come back in the same form for pubs or an LTM in the future though. Keep that shit far away from ranked.
Another thing-if you we 1v1 for the win and had gold knockdown there was a solid chance you could lose the gunfight and still win the game because going down gives you another 100 heath, and ring doesn’t damage shields. So you would lose the gun fight and still win because they died to ring without gold knock. It was really an apex experience
When a tikiti tok makes flat angry 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I lought sooo hard!
Not even including Lucio in the support counters to widow is absolutely insane, that is literally like his whole thing
Not including Hanzo or Ashe as counters to widow is kind of wild too