I once had a friend at locals play "normal orcust". it was an orcust build where they just played 12 normal lvl4 monsters, and just a bunch of good stuff for orcust. mind you this was when mermaid and rusty were legal, so the point of the deck was to open two normal monsters and with link spider go into the knightmare board. it was super cheasy but surprisingly effective.
Best thing about normal Monsters is the flavour text. Man i love magic for having flavor text even on effect creatures. I think normal Monsters coule be good if they would become a resource for something. Running some vanilla beat sticks would be ok if you could discard them to summon some weaker xyz style cards with effects. Maybe something like the gemini cards but instead of having to summon them twice you could just overlay an extra deck card with worse stats but an effect. The artwork could show a psychic/upgraded/transformed/evolved version of the vanilla card.
This. A good flavor text can easily be the last piece a card needs to be visually satisfying, and a bad flavor text can just make the whole thing hard to stomach playing unless it's absolutely essential to a deck.
Early yugioh mostly normal monsters, strong equip spells and traps that can turn the tide. Modern yugioh effect monsters basically made equip spells and strong traps not that strong. Power creep is interesting to think about
Yeah, they shouldn't have crossed the line, where monsters are better spell and trap cards than actual spell and trap cards. And monsters with negation effects should have been only for destruction and banish effects, not straight out negating entire cards, basically, stardust dragons for both destruction and negations without leaving the field would be great. And immune monsters are just boring and annoying as hell, straight up not fun, nor good design. They came from necessity. Only traps should have had negations of entire cards as traps are the slowest card in YuGiOh and they should be the strongest.
@@rattlehead999 How's this for an idea: give levels to spells and traps and have it so that lower level effects can't affect higher level cards. For example Raigeki would be a level 3 card and thus could destroy all level 3 or lower monsters on your opponents side of the field. Lightning Vortex, which is pretty much a nerfed Raigeki with an additional cost would be a level 4 spell. In general negation and destruction type effects would be lower level cards and traps and less direct effects could be higher level.
@@joelsasmad Well then spells and traps become useless. And you would introduce another form of power creep. Spell and trap cards should be very powerful, but also have a drawback, traps have an inherent drawback of having to wait until your opponents turn. To fix normal monsters you need: 1. Field spell that reduces the amount of tributes required by 1 for normal monsters, while also protecting normal monsters from monster effects. 2. Continuous spell that gets a counter every turn, that counter can be used as tribute instead of a monster.(Can't be destroyed by monster effects). 3. A continuous spell card that protects normal monsters from spell cards. 4. A continuous trap card that protects monsters from trap cards. 5. Equip spell card that doubles the attack of a normal monster level 3 or below. 6. Equip spell card that gives normal monsters level 5 or above 2000 attack 7. A few well designed normal monster pendulum cards. This fills up the deck along with other existing support cards for normal monsters(most normal monster support is meh).
@@rattlehead999 Spells and traps wouldn't become useless. This partial protection inherent to level would mean that the monsters that have a significant impact would no longer need to have more complete protection against everything or negation and destruction effects.
0:05: -When Dragun is being fusion summoned from Red Eyes Fusion by using Dark Magician and Red Eyes Black Dragon -Chaos Max being ritual summoned by the effect of Advanced Ritual Art by sending Blue Eyes White Dragon to GY.
Normal monsters in a vacum can never be good. The key is in their support cards, make very good spell and trap card that enhance their effect depending on how many normal monsters you have on the filed/hand/gy. This way the actual support cards would be the monsters and spell and trap cards taking the main role of damage/sustain/effects.
I always use the card "Hunter Spider" as the ultimate test/example for the current state of Yugioh, Normal Monsters, and what resources the game currently has to push a cards strengths. If there are tools to have Hunter Spider see more play, then they're on the right path for legacy card support and bolstering diversity. I absolutely love seeing competitive decks use Normal Monsters like Tyhone #2 in Hieratic decks. It's all about Konami making more and more cards that capitalize off any traits on the monster whatsoever (Type, Level, Attribute, ATK, DEF, being Normal, etc.)
I haven't seen anyone comment about Phantasm spiral yet. That deck has a ton of potential. I makes for a viable rogue deck that can beat some more modern matchups
Archetypes being given normal monsters is a huge boost, just imagine if zoodiac, phantom knights, or any other XYZ deck got a normal monster it would give the decks a big boost in consistency, letting you play rescue rabbit or unexpected dai (evilswarms is a good example) and in a case like zoodiac they wouldn't even be dead draws since you could still XYZ summon by just normal summoning one, unexpected dai could be like extra copies of barrage.
Reminder that two normal monsters in the hand makes Dragoon Ns the first one, link into Link Spider, activate the effect, link into any other LINK-1 effect monster, make Verte, ef.
Would this be too broken? Rule changes: If you Normal Summon a Normal Monster you can Normal Summon another monster this turn (Alternatively the rule could be , you can normal summon an additional normal monster, instead if the extra normal summon would be too broken for effect monsters) It would give normal monsters a build in swarming capability (but no consistency boost) making a hand with 2+ normal monsters less devastating And a generic change I think should've been added a long time ago to help Tribute summons: A level 5+ tribute summoned monster counts as 2 tributes for the tribute summon of a level 7+ monster, a level 7+ tribute summoned monster counts as 2 tributes for a monster that requires 3 tributes to be summoned
There's a Continuous Spell for the first part of that Tribute rule, and the second part literally doesn't work, because 3x Tributes are card effect text, and thus always demand a true 3 monsters, this ruling comes up with things like Gilford the Lightning and the Egyptian Gods, their 3x Tribute for Tribute Summon is effect text, so it truly requires 3 monsters, disregarding effects like the Effigy cards being worth 2 Tributes for X monsters
I was about to call foul on ignoring Dark Magician decks when I realized that BEWD and DM decks circle aroung getting the normal monsters out... In order to tribute them to summon a more powerful (effect) version of themselves!
The last time I saw normal monsters in play was a Heart of the Underdog/Exodia deck, using Reload to draw extra cards during the Draw Phase. It's the most powerful Yu-Gi-Oh deck relative to its price I'm aware of. That's what makes normal monsters powerful- how strong they are relative to how costly they are to obtain relative to effect monsters. If you're a player on a budget, I guarantee you've put a normal monster in a deck before.
We need more Normal card support cards. And there's so many unexplored card ideas too. Spell: Mill 2 normal cards, draw one card. (gives incentive to play Normals and thins out deck + removes chance of drawing the Vanillas). Counter Trap: Special Summon up to 3 Lv6 or lower Normal Monsters from the graveyard or hand, they are unaffected by card effects this turn. This card cannot be negated. (Helps issue of bricking with too many Vanillas).
If they get over the fact that you can give over 2k attack to a normal lvl 4 monster without consequence it might help. And printing a level 8+ with 3500+ attack would also be fine. Maby a card like cold wave but for monster effects would help normal monsters. Only downside is, token decks, fusion, ritual or contious trap monster decks can also abuse this this. Printing more extra deck monsters that uses normal monsters seems like a good thing as well. We have seen it more the last couple of months
The problem is that normal monsters are no longer stronger by pure attack than effect monsters, so even if you give them support, you'd need to use equip spell cards to beat effect monsters.
@@floridaman6982 yup. In the beginning of every new mechanic, there are always downsides to the upsides, but then they gotta keep making better and better cards every season for 3-4 years and suddenly the new mechanic which is faster, more sustainable and overall better, now has stronger cards than the older, slower, less consistent mechanic.
What is the highest defense level 4 normal monster? If you had a 2700 or 2900 defense level 4 monster, THAT might be a reason to play a normal monster. It's not necessarily power creep, it would just soak up a removal spell it ability, which could be worthwhile.
i found interesting the take the digimon tcg had on normal monsters. their vanilla monsters are relevant because they cost few resouces to play, they let you draw cards to replace themselves and they can either swarm or help you bring out a bigger monster. but it yugioh is like... no advantage, no swarming, no win condition and they don't lead to a big monster. They inherently demand a deck focused on them and no matter what you give them, they are and always will be bad.
Even if you say high level normal monsters can be played without tributes, or pump up 4-stars to 3000 atk, you still run into the problem of commiting your normal summon on a vanilla beater. How many decks can turn their normal summon (plus a small combo) into a vanilla beater from the extra deck? Like, all of them, right? Because why summon a 3k beater when you can summon a 2500 atk monster with powerful effects? So okay, pump up those normal monsters to insane levels - 5000 atk on a 4-star. Would that get played? Still probably not, because exponentially high atk doesn't really matter after 3.5k and you're clearing any boss monster by battle. Maybe if you gave it 8000 atk people would play it for the otk potential, but that's asking the rest of he deck to clear the opponent's board with special summons alone. Which is possible, but idk. I think normal monsters are just inherently unplayable outside of being used as combo pieces, or targets for good support cards.
One cannot solve the problem this game has by thinking inside the box, by maintaining the status quo. All these sugestions about new arqutypal support, making normal monster having effects or be special summons is more of the way of thinking-/designing that lead us us here.
Magikey is a normal monster based archetype . Yes it doesn't use 15-16 ones but still . I believe they are quite similar to invoked , where they are going to be a multiple attribute archetype
How about making a new game wide rule that normal monsters are immune to monster effects. You could still mirror force the monsters and destroy them by battle but against monsyer effects theyd be immune. That would give them a reason to be played.
another global rule change that might make them playable - Normal Monsters can be special summoned instead of Normal Summoned. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but a ton of decks would play a few vanillas as extenders if that were the case. (not sure how tribute summons work in this case, but)
Normal monsters themselves cant be good, but support cards can make specific vanilla monsters strong such as dark magician and blue eyes which both are competent decks themselves. (Dark magician decks actually had dark magician be the boss monster unlike blue eyes where they abuse their rank 8 toolbox)
Although with the way metas are nowadays, aren't original vanilla monsters being completely replaced by effect monsters that act like them, like even playing a dark magician deck nowadays most people don't even play the original dark magician
@@justapassingbycommenterrem5642 would still play 3 dark magician, but i did fail to realize that dragoon and other important extra deck monsters exist too. It is very essential to have all 3 dark magicians, but they like blue eyes where the vanilla monster is more of a path to an end board rather than having them on the field as the boss monster. Dark magician pre duel overload was the closest to what i envision.
I want Normal Monsters were playable outside of garnets and pendulums. Treasure panda makes low level monsters Combo pieces for effect extra deck monsters
If they make the normal monster required for other cards the answer is an obvious yes. If you want JUST normal monsters to be Viable they neeeeed pendulums/spell/trap and high normal summon stats like 3000 atk off just a normal summon no tributes.
Hmm, but if you were to continue linearly increasing the attack stat what would happen? How high would the attack stat of a level 4 normal monster need to be to he playable? An 8000 attack point normal summon would certainly be too strong, is 4k also too strong? Would a 2500 atk stat be playable?
I don't think normal monsters are bad. On the contrary, I think effect monsters are OP. The game has become terribly unbalanced. This could be mitigated though if they added in new conditions, like effect monsters requiring a tribute in addition to their other costs in order to summon, effect monsters didn't shield you from an opponent's attacks, or if there were just really accessible continuous spells and traps which prevented monster effect activation.
Just make a powerful new archetype of effect monsters that have the caveat that they don't activate against normal monsters or there's a drawl back if used against normal monsters.
If they made links to where you could special Summon normal monsters from the deck which can be treated as tuners or whatever which can then make synchro’s and xyz’s which can do the same as links once per turn. Normals could be good. However then it would be used more as an engine rather them themselves being good...
Do you think it would be feasible to change yu-gi-oh rules so that normal summoning normal monsters does not count in respect to the one normal summon per turn limit? Or some weaker variation, like if you could normal summon 3 normal monster per turn if you don't normal summon any effect monster? Would that make normal monster more viable?
In the main game it would lead to spamming extra deck monsters. There are unlimited normal summons in rush duels, but that is a pretty insular format without so many power cards yet. I sort of like the idea of normal summoning high level normal monsters more than once per turn though.
I would say it could be good or I guess playable if it was given incredibly support plus broken extra deck monsters that only requires normal monsters as materials like Red Eyes Dark Dragoon.
Now I want an arkitype of normal monsters with stupidly powerfull Spell/Traps. It need to be spacificly for the arkitype since Stuff Like Blue eyes plays normal monsters.
Normal monster on there own will never be good. they need support or a creative way to use they traits to the deck builders advantage like being able to turbo out triple toadly awesome which exploits the type attribute and level or make a control deck with effect negation and ATK reduction basically use cards that turn the duel into 2003 yugioh. If you want to get into custom card territory there's 4 ways to go about it 1. Make swarming more constant that force you to use normal monsters as cost 2. Make powerful floodgates that force you to use normal monsters 3. Make searchers for powerful normal monster support. 4. Make extra deck monsters that requires normal monster for their summon or make the extra deck monster more powerful if their materials were normal monster
Link Spider and Red Eyes Dragoon both follow that last idea, as do Tenyis, Red Eyes Dragoon gets to use its effect twice per turn if you use Red-Eyes Black Dragon instead of a random Lv5+ Eff Dragon
Want your normal monster to be good? Play a Blue-Eyes, Red-Eyes, or Dark Magician deck. That's all I got sadly. I do love normal monsters though. I wish I could play Forbidden Memories style while my opponent is playing Yugioh lol.
Igknights weren't that bad. Pendulum normal monsters have the ability. Maybe a Pendulum Gemini deck that when normal summoned are treated as normal monsters, and also while in grave and face up extra deck. When special summoned (Pendulum summoned) they get their effects. Just something off the top of my head.
Always they can be broken with Rabbit, also, there out are some decks that can do a lot of spam with normal monster. I'll just wait a deck that could pull out Dystopia the Despodent the easyer as possible cus... Dude... Is my fucking favorite boss monster in Yu-Gi-Oh!
@@CelVini You can restrict that if needed, Like: "up to 4 non-tuner normal monsters with different levels from levels 1-4, You cannot use these monsters for a Link summon the turn you activated this effect."
@@BramLastname In other words, 4 monsters to fusion or ritual summon, and if you put all these restrictions on, what are you going to do with the 4 normal monsters on the field?
Well I'm not saying it has to be that way, I'm just saying that there should obviously be limitations to it. But you'd play it for the same reason you'd play any other card, It works with the deck you're playing, Like Gem-knights or World Chalice could use a card like that. Edit: I suppose Huge Revolution and Law of the Normal decks too, But who plays those?
Honestly, yugioh has gotten too fast in my opinion. Synchro and xyz were iffy already and pendulum and whatever new mechanics have appeared after it there's not much strategy in the game besides deck building since you win turn one or two or you lose.
@@floridaman6982 make it happen then. still, as with most ideas, itn the case of yugioh it necessitates new and better design philosophy. otherwise, like mtg commander, it can easily become to consistent despite the 1 of rules. specially when yugioh is all about searchers and combos.
Normal monsters, can you even summon any monster at all. Every time I look at a yu-gi-oh card I ask myself why do I need to pull off some complex summoning mechanic just to summon a low level monsters. Back in the day we could summon any monster we wanted with the exception of higher level monsters. All these different summoning mechanics were added just so the company behind yugioh could keep making money.
I strongly disagree with this video, as vanillas have what effects wish they had: support with no HOPT clause. I assure you, you think a tad bit too narrowly. Dragon Shrine is vanilla support and helps get tri wight live with a single summon, or can be used to dump a buster and a much needed dragon in GY. Also, my opinion from personal experience of maining a vanilla engine is that you're giving them a wee bit too little credit ;)
I once had a friend at locals play "normal orcust". it was an orcust build where they just played 12 normal lvl4 monsters, and just a bunch of good stuff for orcust. mind you this was when mermaid and rusty were legal, so the point of the deck was to open two normal monsters and with link spider go into the knightmare board. it was super cheasy but surprisingly effective.
I wouldn't say that the normal monsters are boosting consistency, but sounds like they were having fun, which is what matters.
Best thing about normal Monsters is the flavour text. Man i love magic for having flavor text even on effect creatures.
I think normal Monsters coule be good if they would become a resource for something. Running some vanilla beat sticks would be ok if you could discard them to summon some weaker xyz style cards with effects.
Maybe something like the gemini cards but instead of having to summon them twice you could just overlay an extra deck card with worse stats but an effect. The artwork could show a psychic/upgraded/transformed/evolved version of the vanilla card.
This. A good flavor text can easily be the last piece a card needs to be visually satisfying, and a bad flavor text can just make the whole thing hard to stomach playing unless it's absolutely essential to a deck.
I like this idea. Maybe you could call them 'Doppel Monsters' or something similar.
Imagine adding "Flavour Text" to Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic.
Honest question' a better versión of a card is called a (retrained) card?
Early yugioh mostly normal monsters, strong equip spells and traps that can turn the tide. Modern yugioh effect monsters basically made equip spells and strong traps not that strong. Power creep is interesting to think about
Don't forget how so many normal spells ended up being extremely overpowered.
Yeah, they shouldn't have crossed the line, where monsters are better spell and trap cards than actual spell and trap cards.
And monsters with negation effects should have been only for destruction and banish effects, not straight out negating entire cards, basically, stardust dragons for both destruction and negations without leaving the field would be great. And immune monsters are just boring and annoying as hell, straight up not fun, nor good design. They came from necessity.
Only traps should have had negations of entire cards as traps are the slowest card in YuGiOh and they should be the strongest.
@@rattlehead999 How's this for an idea: give levels to spells and traps and have it so that lower level effects can't affect higher level cards. For example Raigeki would be a level 3 card and thus could destroy all level 3 or lower monsters on your opponents side of the field. Lightning Vortex, which is pretty much a nerfed Raigeki with an additional cost would be a level 4 spell. In general negation and destruction type effects would be lower level cards and traps and less direct effects could be higher level.
@@joelsasmad Well then spells and traps become useless. And you would introduce another form of power creep.
Spell and trap cards should be very powerful, but also have a drawback, traps have an inherent drawback of having to wait until your opponents turn.
To fix normal monsters you need:
1. Field spell that reduces the amount of tributes required by 1 for normal monsters, while also protecting normal monsters from monster effects.
2. Continuous spell that gets a counter every turn, that counter can be used as tribute instead of a monster.(Can't be destroyed by monster effects).
3. A continuous spell card that protects normal monsters from spell cards.
4. A continuous trap card that protects monsters from trap cards.
5. Equip spell card that doubles the attack of a normal monster level 3 or below.
6. Equip spell card that gives normal monsters level 5 or above 2000 attack
7. A few well designed normal monster pendulum cards.
This fills up the deck along with other existing support cards for normal monsters(most normal monster support is meh).
@@rattlehead999 Spells and traps wouldn't become useless. This partial protection inherent to level would mean that the monsters that have a significant impact would no longer need to have more complete protection against everything or negation and destruction effects.
0:05:
-When Dragun is being fusion summoned from Red Eyes Fusion by using Dark Magician and Red Eyes Black Dragon
-Chaos Max being ritual summoned by the effect of Advanced Ritual Art by sending Blue Eyes White Dragon to GY.
Normal monsters in a vacum can never be good. The key is in their support cards, make very good spell and trap card that enhance their effect depending on how many normal monsters you have on the filed/hand/gy. This way the actual support cards would be the monsters and spell and trap cards taking the main role of damage/sustain/effects.
I always use the card "Hunter Spider" as the ultimate test/example for the current state of Yugioh, Normal Monsters, and what resources the game currently has to push a cards strengths. If there are tools to have Hunter Spider see more play, then they're on the right path for legacy card support and bolstering diversity.
I absolutely love seeing competitive decks use Normal Monsters like Tyhone #2 in Hieratic decks. It's all about Konami making more and more cards that capitalize off any traits on the monster whatsoever (Type, Level, Attribute, ATK, DEF, being Normal, etc.)
I haven't seen anyone comment about Phantasm spiral yet. That deck has a ton of potential. I makes for a viable rogue deck that can beat some more modern matchups
Archetypes being given normal monsters is a huge boost, just imagine if zoodiac, phantom knights, or any other XYZ deck got a normal monster it would give the decks a big boost in consistency, letting you play rescue rabbit or unexpected dai (evilswarms is a good example) and in a case like zoodiac they wouldn't even be dead draws since you could still XYZ summon by just normal summoning one, unexpected dai could be like extra copies of barrage.
Zoodiac Astrologer
Phantom Knights Medium (Yuto cosplayer? XD)
Is there a reason Phantasm Spirals weren't metioned in this video?
Reminder that two normal monsters in the hand makes Dragoon
Ns the first one, link into Link Spider, activate the effect, link into any other LINK-1 effect monster, make Verte, ef.
Great video also your voice is very soothing
Would this be too broken?
Rule changes:
If you Normal Summon a Normal Monster you can Normal Summon another monster this turn (Alternatively the rule could be , you can normal summon an additional normal monster, instead if the extra normal summon would be too broken for effect monsters)
It would give normal monsters a build in swarming capability (but no consistency boost) making a hand with 2+ normal monsters less devastating
And a generic change I think should've been added a long time ago to help Tribute summons:
A level 5+ tribute summoned monster counts as 2 tributes for the tribute summon of a level 7+ monster, a level 7+ tribute summoned monster counts as 2 tributes for a monster that requires 3 tributes to be summoned
There's a Continuous Spell for the first part of that Tribute rule, and the second part literally doesn't work, because 3x Tributes are card effect text, and thus always demand a true 3 monsters, this ruling comes up with things like Gilford the Lightning and the Egyptian Gods, their 3x Tribute for Tribute Summon is effect text, so it truly requires 3 monsters, disregarding effects like the Effigy cards being worth 2 Tributes for X monsters
I don't know what you're talkin about I finish finals with a Blue-Eyes deck lol
I was about to call foul on ignoring Dark Magician decks when I realized that BEWD and DM decks circle aroung getting the normal monsters out... In order to tribute them to summon a more powerful (effect) version of themselves!
@@SEELE-ONE indeed they are just consistent fodder for extra deck plays
I played a normal monster 5 minutes ago. I beat my opponent who played dragon link. Skull Servant tier 0.
The last time I saw normal monsters in play was a Heart of the Underdog/Exodia deck, using Reload to draw extra cards during the Draw Phase.
It's the most powerful Yu-Gi-Oh deck relative to its price I'm aware of.
That's what makes normal monsters powerful- how strong they are relative to how costly they are to obtain relative to effect monsters. If you're a player on a budget, I guarantee you've put a normal monster in a deck before.
We need more Normal card support cards. And there's so many unexplored card ideas too.
Spell: Mill 2 normal cards, draw one card. (gives incentive to play Normals and thins out deck + removes chance of drawing the Vanillas).
Counter Trap: Special Summon up to 3 Lv6 or lower Normal Monsters from the graveyard or hand, they are unaffected by card effects this turn. This card cannot be negated.
(Helps issue of bricking with too many Vanillas).
If they get over the fact that you can give over 2k attack to a normal lvl 4 monster without consequence it might help. And printing a level 8+ with 3500+ attack would also be fine.
Maby a card like cold wave but for monster effects would help normal monsters. Only downside is, token decks, fusion, ritual or contious trap monster decks can also abuse this this.
Printing more extra deck monsters that uses normal monsters seems like a good thing as well. We have seen it more the last couple of months
The problem is that normal monsters are no longer stronger by pure attack than effect monsters, so even if you give them support, you'd need to use equip spell cards to beat effect monsters.
Thats my biggest issue with the powercreep. No downsides
@@floridaman6982 yup. In the beginning of every new mechanic, there are always downsides to the upsides, but then they gotta keep making better and better cards every season for 3-4 years and suddenly the new mechanic which is faster, more sustainable and overall better, now has stronger cards than the older, slower, less consistent mechanic.
@@floridaman6982 yeah it used to be that normal monsters would have stronger stats to balance things out a bit
Dragoons of Draconia TOTALLY looks like a Magic The Gathering card!
love your videos, well planed and well explained. short answer yes :D
Thank you. I am thinking about making a series, with the next one being equip spells.
Awesome Username, my G 😁👍!
@@MrDraquo thx :D
What is the highest defense level 4 normal monster? If you had a 2700 or 2900 defense level 4 monster, THAT might be a reason to play a normal monster.
It's not necessarily power creep, it would just soak up a removal spell it ability, which could be worthwhile.
i found interesting the take the digimon tcg had on normal monsters.
their vanilla monsters are relevant because they cost few resouces to play, they let you draw cards to replace themselves and they can either swarm or help you bring out a bigger monster.
but it yugioh is like... no advantage, no swarming, no win condition and they don't lead to a big monster. They inherently demand a deck focused on them and no matter what you give them, they are and always will be bad.
Level 5 or higher normal monster should be able to be summon without tribute
@@annedrieck7316 screw the rules, right?
@@goncaloferreira6429 I've got money!
@@annedrieck7316 but missed the point
Even if you say high level normal monsters can be played without tributes, or pump up 4-stars to 3000 atk, you still run into the problem of commiting your normal summon on a vanilla beater.
How many decks can turn their normal summon (plus a small combo) into a vanilla beater from the extra deck? Like, all of them, right? Because why summon a 3k beater when you can summon a 2500 atk monster with powerful effects?
So okay, pump up those normal monsters to insane levels - 5000 atk on a 4-star. Would that get played? Still probably not, because exponentially high atk doesn't really matter after 3.5k and you're clearing any boss monster by battle. Maybe if you gave it 8000 atk people would play it for the otk potential, but that's asking the rest of he deck to clear the opponent's board with special summons alone. Which is possible, but idk.
I think normal monsters are just inherently unplayable outside of being used as combo pieces, or targets for good support cards.
One cannot solve the problem this game has by thinking inside the box, by maintaining the status quo. All these sugestions about new arqutypal support, making normal monster having effects or be special summons is more of the way of thinking-/designing that lead us us here.
Magikey is a normal monster based archetype . Yes it doesn't use 15-16 ones but still . I believe they are quite similar to invoked , where they are going to be a multiple attribute archetype
Let’s see how they go with all their cards released
Heart of Underdog
How about making a new game wide rule that normal monsters are immune to monster effects. You could still mirror force the monsters and destroy them by battle but against monsyer effects theyd be immune. That would give them a reason to be played.
Better make them immune to *opponent's* card effects, or you'll hamstring some deck potentials. But that could be interesting.
another global rule change that might make them playable - Normal Monsters can be special summoned instead of Normal Summoned.
I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but a ton of decks would play a few vanillas as extenders if that were the case. (not sure how tribute summons work in this case, but)
@@LazurBeemz I think this wording works better: You can normal summon multiple normal monsters per turn but effect monsters only once.
That could be an interesting field spell link monster or support spell. But they made mystic mine which is a better version of that idea I guess...
I wonder if there could be a rule change that make normal monsters good.
Normal Monsters like Frostasaurus and Cybertech Alligator make cards like Red eyes and Dark Magician obsolete.
Rabbidragon
Excuse meWUT
XD
Ah, in a more simplified term, NO.
Fun fact: Fire formation - Tenki can search both Dragoons of draconia and Man-Thro' Tro'
I also think Psyframe Driver sees a lot of competetive play.
Normal monsters themselves cant be good, but support cards can make specific vanilla monsters strong such as dark magician and blue eyes which both are competent decks themselves. (Dark magician decks actually had dark magician be the boss monster unlike blue eyes where they abuse their rank 8 toolbox)
Although with the way metas are nowadays, aren't original vanilla monsters being completely replaced by effect monsters that act like them, like even playing a dark magician deck nowadays most people don't even play the original dark magician
@@justapassingbycommenterrem5642 would still play 3 dark magician, but i did fail to realize that dragoon and other important extra deck monsters exist too. It is very essential to have all 3 dark magicians, but they like blue eyes where the vanilla monster is more of a path to an end board rather than having them on the field as the boss monster. Dark magician pre duel overload was the closest to what i envision.
I built a deck that took normal beast warrior monsters to a different level with the dragoon pendulum monsters and the fire first spells and traps.
Me Personally? I’d make it to where Geminis had their effect while normal summoned on the field and were treated like normal monsters.
They just have to give normal monster unique interactions like how they did with tuners but make it unique to normal monsters c:
One recommendation I have seen is to make all non-normal monsters have summoning sickness, preventing them from attacking the turn they are summoned.
@@tcgtheory1147 sort of like Vengeful Bog Spirit
I want Normal Monsters were playable outside of garnets and pendulums.
Treasure panda makes low level monsters Combo pieces for effect extra deck monsters
If they make the normal monster required for other cards the answer is an obvious yes. If you want JUST normal monsters to be Viable they neeeeed pendulums/spell/trap and high normal summon stats like 3000 atk off just a normal summon no tributes.
Hmm, but if you were to continue linearly increasing the attack stat what would happen?
How high would the attack stat of a level 4 normal monster need to be to he playable?
An 8000 attack point normal summon would certainly be too strong, is 4k also too strong? Would a 2500 atk stat be playable?
I use to run a box of friends deck with masked mask chameleon and it was really fun it would win more than you would think
What you all think about phantasm spiral?
You know I’m really surprised no one made a video about normal monsters fusion or Best fusions that require normal monsters.
I don't think normal monsters are bad. On the contrary, I think effect monsters are OP. The game has become terribly unbalanced. This could be mitigated though if they added in new conditions, like effect monsters requiring a tribute in addition to their other costs in order to summon, effect monsters didn't shield you from an opponent's attacks, or if there were just really accessible continuous spells and traps which prevented monster effect activation.
Trying to build a normal monster deck in masterduel. I probably will fail badly.
It might work in the novel metagame. Best of luck!
I appreciate how you didn't put in really stupid music while you talked.
there was that one level 5 tuner instant fusion target. i doubt it was meta, but it's at least decent.
Just make a powerful new archetype of effect monsters that have the caveat that they don't activate against normal monsters or there's a drawl back if used against normal monsters.
Maybe the rules around normal monsters can be changed somehow.
If they made links to where you could special
Summon normal monsters from the deck which can be treated as tuners or whatever which can then make synchro’s and xyz’s which can do the same as links once per turn. Normals could be good. However then it would be used more as an engine rather them themselves being good...
Dragon Core Hexes is my favorite Yu-Gi-Oh card, at least she have a niche.
Do you think it would be feasible to change yu-gi-oh rules so that normal summoning normal monsters does not count in respect to the one normal summon per turn limit? Or some weaker variation, like if you could normal summon 3 normal monster per turn if you don't normal summon any effect monster? Would that make normal monster more viable?
In the main game it would lead to spamming extra deck monsters. There are unlimited normal summons in rush duels, but that is a pretty insular format without so many power cards yet. I sort of like the idea of normal summoning high level normal monsters more than once per turn though.
I would say it could be good or I guess playable if it was given incredibly support plus broken extra deck monsters that only requires normal monsters as materials like Red Eyes Dark Dragoon.
I wanna use Rude Kaiser!
Non-Effect (Extra Deck mostly) got plenty support now!
Okay let’s watch the vid now
XD
Now I want an arkitype of normal monsters with stupidly powerfull Spell/Traps. It need to be spacificly for the arkitype since Stuff Like Blue eyes plays normal monsters.
How about normal monsters have crazy attack and don't count as a normal summon
same my idea , normal monster should have hight attack and defence and could summon more eysier and have falue in the game
Try playing a normal pendulum deck, it's not exaclty anyhere close to meta, but it's fun and it's consistant
Dark magician
Blue eyes wining a ycs.
I think the answer is No, and this goes for any TCG (draft formats notwithstanding)
Phantasm Spiral
Normal monster on there own will never be good. they need support or a creative way to use they traits to the deck builders advantage like being able to turbo out triple toadly awesome which exploits the type attribute and level or make a control deck with effect negation and ATK reduction basically use cards that turn the duel into 2003 yugioh.
If you want to get into custom card territory there's 4 ways to go about it
1. Make swarming more constant that force you to use normal monsters as cost
2. Make powerful floodgates that force you to use normal monsters
3. Make searchers for powerful normal monster support.
4. Make extra deck monsters that requires normal monster for their summon or make the extra deck monster more powerful if their materials were normal monster
Link Spider and Red Eyes Dragoon both follow that last idea, as do Tenyis, Red Eyes Dragoon gets to use its effect twice per turn if you use Red-Eyes Black Dragon instead of a random Lv5+ Eff Dragon
@@syrelian yep they are good examples
In beatdown possiblity
Want your normal monster to be good? Play a Blue-Eyes, Red-Eyes, or Dark Magician deck.
That's all I got sadly. I do love normal monsters though. I wish I could play Forbidden Memories style while my opponent is playing Yugioh lol.
Igknights weren't that bad. Pendulum normal monsters have the ability. Maybe a Pendulum Gemini deck that when normal summoned are treated as normal monsters, and also while in grave and face up extra deck. When special summoned (Pendulum summoned) they get their effects. Just something off the top of my head.
Always they can be broken with Rabbit, also, there out are some decks that can do a lot of spam with normal monster. I'll just wait a deck that could pull out Dystopia the Despodent the easyer as possible cus... Dude... Is my fucking favorite boss monster in Yu-Gi-Oh!
If we can have a card that summons 4 xyz from the extra deck,
I don't see why we can't have that for Normal Monsters.
4 normal Monsters to use for Synchro, Xyz and Link summon of generic monsters 😂😂😂
@@CelVini You can restrict that if needed,
Like: "up to 4 non-tuner normal monsters with different levels from levels 1-4,
You cannot use these monsters for a Link summon the turn you activated this effect."
@@BramLastname In other words, 4 monsters to fusion or ritual summon, and if you put all these restrictions on, what are you going to do with the 4 normal monsters on the field?
Well I'm not saying it has to be that way,
I'm just saying that there should obviously be limitations to it.
But you'd play it for the same reason you'd play any other card,
It works with the deck you're playing,
Like Gem-knights or World Chalice could use a card like that.
Edit: I suppose Huge Revolution and Law of the Normal decks too,
But who plays those?
I have seen the phantasm arycitype
Honestly, yugioh has gotten too fast in my opinion. Synchro and xyz were iffy already and pendulum and whatever new mechanics have appeared after it there's not much strategy in the game besides deck building since you win turn one or two or you lose.
normal monsters being bad i just a consequences of the game going too far, changing too much. basic part of the game is gonne.
A fun format would be no three ofs so we’d get more turns to get to key combo pieces and more creative outlets depending on what you have drawn.
@@floridaman6982 make it happen then.
still, as with most ideas, itn the case of yugioh it necessitates new and better design philosophy. otherwise, like mtg commander, it can easily become to consistent despite the 1 of rules. specially when yugioh is all about searchers and combos.
The only way Normal monsters can be good is if Effect Monsters can’t be buffed by anything
True
Make a level 4 normal monster with 10K attack.
Bam, it will be played at three in every deck.
Blue eyes white dragon
Yes
In Cardfight Vanguard the vanilla is legit good I wish Yugioh can be the same
Normal monsters, can you even summon any monster at all. Every time I look at a yu-gi-oh card I ask myself why do I need to pull off some complex summoning mechanic just to summon a low level monsters. Back in the day we could summon any monster we wanted with the exception of higher level monsters. All these different summoning mechanics were added just so the company behind yugioh could keep making money.
Before the expert rules, you could summon any monster period.
I strongly disagree with this video, as vanillas have what effects wish they had: support with no HOPT clause. I assure you, you think a tad bit too narrowly. Dragon Shrine is vanilla support and helps get tri wight live with a single summon, or can be used to dump a buster and a much needed dragon in GY. Also, my opinion from personal experience of maining a vanilla engine is that you're giving them a wee bit too little credit ;)
Skill drain to 3, now what?
Boost their strength to 2500 minimum and make it so that they require no sacrifices
Suship tyme buhby.
I wish konami didnt introduce dumb crap after 2009
No
With tenyi support normal dragon monsters can be really fun.