It seems chaotic is close to coming back. They recently re-uploaded the entire show on their own channel and Brian Gannon is teasing some stuff. I really like your chaotic videos they look so clean and are very funny. I hope you do more of them!
Not to mention how much of a nightmare it is to find space for Tribe hate cards. Like they're basically useless when played against other tribes cause all their power is in that you insta win against one specific tribe
Honestly, I'd encourage it. I'm hopeful that if the game returned, it would come back with newer levels of nuance and depth for the now older audience of players who fell in love with the game so long ago. Here's hoping it makes a return
I loved chaotic . So diverse. All monsters have different stats so even if you get the same card your max or might have high wisdom or low health. So just opening is fun. The variety of cards from monsters to locations to mugic or battle gear or attacks made so many options. I loved the set up how you have to position your cards and choose who attacks who. And having a cool cartoon was a great too
Always glad to see more chaotic content created. Side note to everyone reading this. Epic story media just posted the entire series on RUclips so go watch some and show support for the show.
This is a pretty great video. I was a huge fan of Chaotic as a kid but I never got the opportunity to participate in a wider community. So I'm very pleased to hear about someone else's opinions on the game. Keep it up!
Thanks yo :) If this game ever comes back, it'll be great to see how people who had their own isolated local metas contribute weird and awesome strategies. Here's hoping
I don't even know how I got here nor anything about how the actual card game works, just a fan of the show, but I was hugely entertained by how you presented everything. Excellent video.
Thanks yo! I tried to keep everything as accessible as possible for people who aren't as well acquainted with the intricacies of the competitive scene, so I'm glad you enjoyed it
i would love to start replaying chaotic i dont remember much about it but i remember playing water and i would love to see a game where i explore the world of chaotic and do drone matches then explore parum aswell would be lit
i came into the game a bit latter then i would have liked (2010 or something) due to having had a bad event happen in my life before that. so when i started was right at the end so i got to play the game only a few times before it was gone. i as a game designer love seeing how players would fix problems that got past the beta phase. now that my son (age 5) is expressing an interest in the game im happy to see that hope exists that the game will return.
Cool video. Love the music btw. You cannot have 3 Rao pa sahkk - condensation ceremony cause chaotic has a rule of 2. You can't have 3 of the same cards
This is old but I just want to say about the "X damage" thing Marillians, they are one hell of an example of this. It honestly feels like they were built to just get off Cannon soldier combos.
You know I was thinking that they should have the kids in the cartoon as cards as well, with Perim costumes. They can't have attacks or us mugick. But they can use more battle gear and switch locations.
Perhaps it’s because I haven’t played the game as much. But the Bladez Husk Armor combo does seem like bad game design or OP. It sounds like your friend was just big brain and had a strong combo. Yes it’s an incredibly strong combo, but it has counterplay. Very easy counterplay at that, if you shut down either Bladez special ability or his battlegear. Only one needs to be stopped for the combo to fall apart Either Bladez loses all the extra energy with his battlegear gone, or he loses his ability and now has to actually deal with the fact that he’s not doing any damage anymore.
Yo I think it’s awesome you’re making this video I love chaotic and almost no one makes chaotic videos so keep up the good work. Also I think you should make a video on the most op things about chaotic like magmom in the lava pond with a vile driver and like using katharaz with a danian music called rocky refrain with a pyroblaster
Hey, my name is "MrShinori" or as you know me in the discord "Boruto dad's" (Father of Boruto) and I am a brazilian player who is quite used to physical meta game. I will give my honest opinion about the video as someone who knows and understands the six meta decks (yes six, we in Brazil have created a competitive malvadine for the no-list format). I won't take the banlist into account, because this is a crybaby thing. (I apologize for my average English). 1 - I agree and disagree about the background hate, if new cards are made, I agree that it should have a higher cost for that. But with the ones that only exist, it doesn't make sense to complain, and about defending, 5/6 target decks can use defend without interfering with the strategy. -Aivenna can use Toborn general with burithen axe(70e and intimidate 10e) or looma desert with familiar aquatic (+20e from ikka and +50w from aquatic), plus 2mc. Or just use a full party with no element and hune pantanin, all became warriors. -Malvadine have 2 malvadine with defender. -Neekwin have makanaz and neekwin with defender given by illexia. -Ursis and Aer'dak can use toborn with burithen(Plus disarm if you have a mipedian) or looma with evergreen. (GENERAL TOBORN IS A BEST!) -Bloot burn... well, blow it all up or use Agitos to force combat. You can even say that there is Pouril Forest, but if you use two, it's a 20% chance, and like it or not, card game is luck. 2 - Elemental hate I agree that it is very broken. Van Bloot SOA need a errata, just erasing the "and cannot gain" part.
The meta evolves to "decks that can beat LVBSOA", Aerdak and Burn have bloot, soo turn intro mirror hate, neekwin is more luck, supercooled +2 unbalancy, malvadine have trills, aivenna and ursis dont use elements. But the great problem is hate locations, you don't have defense for that. 3 - Bladez is Meeh, it's fit in Ursis, but is not soo strong when you have ozlai and garv on the meta, but meek, well, pure meek is the strongest rogue deck in chaotic, and you use meek + afjac + husk armor in Aerdak, it's fucking idiot and broken. 4 - As a neekwin main player... I agreed 100%, one forest or lore chamber in the wrong time and i lose the game automatic kkkkkkkkkk 5 - I'm going to get beaten up for playing devil's advocate, but... Zamool isn't that broken... at least for the meta. For the forfun format, yes, this thing is VERY broken. But in meta... nah. Neekwin with mipedin's flute is immune to burn, malvadine decks are immune to target, aivenna with AZAIA and mirror burn can fight back. Ursis and Aer'dak not so well kkkkkk Supercooled is much broken, and neekwin can abuse with twister. Aerdak too, and using bloot or afjac meek combo. Rao'pa/Dranakis is broken too, Neekwin and Aer'dak /Malvadine can abuse, but again, is just a 20% chance, and is luck. I really liked your video, great job! I could see that you really searched and learned a lot about the game to create it. Congratulations and best wishes.
Check the community Discord out and said Discord recently created a website called "Chaotic Recoded" which you can just google: "Chaotic Recode" and it is the first link. It is a slightly automated simulator like Ygopro if you have ever used that.
i admit , i played a little of chaotic , always waiting for a maxxor or a chaor ,but i dont have a chance (at least on the real game) the web page on the other hand , trading cards with other players give me those i wanted and played great (not a pro but good) , i want this game to be back (with the codes on the cards refreshed as not registrated on the page to give them a second chance), i gave much to this game (ver .1 cards) i even have my over and under worlds team separated but complete for any chance, good luck and lets get chaotic
Yeah, he got the playset number wrong (among other things). I mean, this is a metagame take made by somebody who was only ever a casual, so this whole vid is only... vaguely accurate. Danian compost is *great;* it needs to have a few counters. Zamool is a busted card (but only absolutly busted when paired with Kopond High Muge, w/out Kopond he's only mildly busted. If both were Legendary it wouldn't have been as much of a problem). Lord Van Bloot, SoA is actually pretty balanced for reasons I can get into (Courage is a high stat among frontliners like Maxxor, Chaor, Blazvatan, etc. so the eff doesn't always go off; Earth & Water as a combo aren't seen in any other UWs, so you need to adopt some other strat like mixed army w/out Chieftans; making an attack deck that only uses earth; making an earth-water attack deck tailored for Van Bloot but *none* of your other creatures). Plus the Bladez combo seems pretty innocent to me. Most well-built Attack Decks can put out 15 damage per attack on a regular basis; why not Bladez?
That would make for one hell of a long video 😅 I still own all of my old cards. Not sure if that would be something all that many people would be interested in, but I'll keep it in the back of my mind ;)
Glad you liked the video! As for Chaotic "coming back"... that may just have been some hyperbole from some parts of the internet sadly. But, here's hoping some day it makes its glorious return
its pretty weird that his cards all had stats. i only bought 1 starter pack deck and it had no stats. just elements on the card, basic abilities, basic battle gear and mugic. no one really played the game so i just simulated a couple of battles vs myself to see how the game plays and the biggest pitfall was what you described in regards to elements. The fact that most attacks did 0 damage if your creature had wrong element basically meant that best strategy was to just stack 6 creatures with fire/air/earth or water and make your entire deck based off a single element attack. In my version of rulebook of the game, you couldn't use mugic from *any* creature for the backrow of the game. you could only use mugic on creature that you were battling, so if 1 monster had 1 mugic, only that creature could use its 1 mugic. They probably changed something in the rulebook in regards to backrow because in the show, only creature in battle could use mugics. I think this is the type of card game that was terrible in human card-game practice and the type of card game that could only work in online video games. the real life card element of the game takes away entire nuance of strategy in the game. If this was more like action-rpg online battler with cards like show suggests, then it would be good game. The game just being card game just didn't cut it. that's probably why the show went bankrupt because while show was good, the actual card game was notoriously bad in gameplay. What they needed to do is make game online-based with dynamic battle system, dynamic locations and put strategical elements in the game in regards to stats like in show. In the show, it was actual cool because player took part in battles. The locations meant something. It wasn't just "Lava pond: Deal 5 extra fire damage". It was, "Force pulse!, push into lava pond -coded-". Locations had strategy. Stats had meaning. Wisdom(Courage) confused the player. Speed allowed the player to dodge attacks. Intellect made the creature have more attack-options and made them smarter at using the location and power controlled damage in attacks. Battle gear customized how the player used the creature. in the card game, it was just some stat change(like add water element". Mugic had powerful effects like fordeticimo made maxxor huge in show and entirely created strategies to create kill-combos. The card game being a paper-card game could not replicate the epic battles of the show. if they ever revive the show and the game, they need to make chaotic into a triple AAA video game like Elden ring where you make an open world game to explore pariem in which you scan creatures as a human but if you die. you lose the scans. The game could have mutiplayer component and story-line single player component. Story-line mode is your own personal mode where you talk to AI characters and battle 7 codemasters to beat the game(little bit like pokemon). The mutiplayer is its own drome battles with real time combat. The combat would work little bit like MMO games where each creature has spellbook of attacks it can use and based off the intellect stat, you can only equip x number of attacks. So for example, if a creature has 30 intellect, it would only have 2 attacks(2 fire, 2 water, 2 wind, 2 earth) but creature with 45 intellect could equip 3 attacks(3 fire, 3 water, 3 wind, 3 earth). Power decides what attacks the creature is allowed to use, (creature with lower power have lower selection of attack spells). Speed decides how much manoeuvre ability the player has in dodging attacks(Some attack can be homing, though the player can use an attack to cancel a homing attack). Wisdom(Courage) allows the creature to use locations and resist debuffs from attack spells. If a creature courage is low, you lose control of the creature(Like the control become backwards/attack become unclear from opponent) kinda like show with maxxor where Lord Von Bloot uses Decomposition and Maxxor becomes confused in the show when Major Tom uses Maxxor with 5 courage(wisdom). The elements on creatures would allow attack-card to activate its special ability. The special ability of the attack would work based off wisdom check(on your creature and could be resist in some cases by your enemy if the attack has stat-check wisdom). This would be far more compelling version of the game over its human card variant that went nowhere in term of popularity. Chaotic was way ahead of its time in term the idea of Virtual reality. The card game was a good idea executed badly. They need to scrap human-card game version and start all over in electronic video game form if they ever revive the game/show.
I see a lot of potential in that mechanic! They've created entire archetypes around that in Yugioh, so I'm curious to know how that could work in Chaotic.
Dude, do you think you could credit me for using my video at 3:26? I dont mind if you use my videos in yours but at least cite the video and credit the creator.
Heyo! Serena will get on that when she gets home--hopefully she can find a way to do so in post. I'm usually better at leaving the name of the material that I'm using on display in my videos, but I missed the mark this time around. While I can't go about asking every content creator for permission to use snippets of their videos (as it would be impractical to contact every video creator and musician I make reference to in a video), the least I can do is credit most of the snippets that I do use--especially since the small but passionate Chaotic community should see who's trying to keep the scene alive ;) I'll be throwing your channel link in the description as well when Serena gets back, and I'll work toward being more consistent with my crediting in the future.
@@themanicpineapple8772 Thank you. Sorry, normally I wouldnt care about something like this too much but since your just starting out your channel, I figured itd be best to mention it so as to help remind you about citing sources. Personally I didnt mind that much but I know other content creators who are very anal about that and I'd rather not see such a great channel (you) get marred with any drama or anything in the future.
I do think one of the thing's it's got going for it is ease of access. Then again, maybe that's just my anecdotal experience (my friends caught on pretty quick when they played for the first time, even though there is some iconography to memorize)
I have to disagree. It is a chaotic game with a back and forth of war changing abilities. Both sides have it and you need to be prepared for a nightmare.
I think that just because both sides have access to the same abilities doesn't innately make things balanced. Yes, in Smash Bros Brawl, the response to "Meta Knight is broken and needs to be banned" was oftentimes "well, just play Meta Knight then", which I think is a silly response that overcentralizes the meta. People have tended to regret taking this position in hindsight. Needing to build your deck around one particular strategy limits creativity and the combinations of unique player interactions. I respect if you like the game as is, but my friends and I preferred variety and thus chose to ban the backrow hate (the current competitive community has also done a pretty great job of doing that already).
I actually played competitive Yugioh until around the Qliphort meta and then bounced. I did definitely feel like there wasn't enough back and forth between players and a lot of turn 1 scoops, particularly during the Dracosac period. Not sure if it's changed now
@@themanicpineapple8772 Current Yugioh is "completely shut down the opponent's ability to do anything" only way more busted to the point they have to print ridiculously overpowered cards designed to help the player going second have any chance of making even a single play, only players constantly figure out ways to get around said going second cards so they do little to fix anything. Decks either make fields with a billion effect negations or put so many floodgates that the opponent basically has no means of doing anything. The entire point of the game now is literally to remove any pretense of back-n-forth interaction.
@@themanicpineapple8772 It's the same reason I migrated to other tcgs mainly Vanguard, It has its fair share of power creep issues but the core mechanics of the game mean there will always be interaction between both players simply because of how the game is designed. Whenever I feel like revisiting Yugioh I just boot up Legacy of the Duelist specifically for the AI opponents.
While I like the video the issues you're talking about are actually the reason I quit the game. These issues didn't exist in the first few expansions of the game. What you're complaining about arnt so much design flaws as egregious power creep by the developers to sell packs. Each new expansion began to obsolete the last. Almost every card you complained about didn't exist in the older expansions and only existed in the new ones to beat old expansions and sell cards. So the lesson to learn above all else is to learn how to create cards that don't become worth buying just because they are superior in every way to older cards and strategies. Also please change the stupid ranked ladder so you can knock people out of first place if they arnt playing. That shit was cancerous and really killed the game for me.
"Lord van bloot simping for aaune" Lol that was great Honestly I feel like a lot of these issues could be addressed with a side deck. Due to how long a single duel takes, they didnt do a standard best of 3 duels like other card games do. Hell because of the lack of a side deck some cards like Maxxor's torch were basically unplayable since you cant garuntee you'd always be dueling against what it was specifically designed to counter.
Couldn't agree more. I feel like maybe you could try side decking after a few battles or something? But that seems odd. 3v3s aren't as engaging, so that wouldn't work. Side decking is a tough thing to implement, but who knows: maybe they'll figure something out
@@themanicpineapple8772 yeah. I remember dragonix on the discord mentioned how they want to fix that since in hindsight it lead to some cards never seeing use despite them being good, albeit against a specific card type
Chaotic games aren't like Mtg and you know this. They always take a long time besides cetain decks stomping the opponent in 15 minutes, The average game takes about an hour. Side boarding and best of 3 would be a horrible idea. If you dont beleive me try it for yourself. Also sideboards would need more restrictions than MTG or you have things like tartareck psi making chiefs REALLY unplayable. Maxxors torch will also never be good because it says "you're opponent chooses". It would never see real play..not even in a sideboard.maybe some casual maxxor theme gimmic deck though.
@@chaotica-game985 yeah I know. It's just the first thing I can think of when it comes to fixing these issues other than banning the cards or never printing similar cards. Also I only brought up Maxxors torch cause it's the only card I can remember off the top of my head that specifically counters something.
You would probably want to change it to 3v3 then because 6v6 takes so long. And it does definitely feel like Pokemon in the "I brought counters for ___ deck, I hope I run into them." But some side-cards would be complete blowouts in Chaotic and would kill a lot of decks (namely M'arillians and Graveyard based decks.)
The mugic against Danian just forces you to choose a good side deck and rethink your creature positions. That’s one thing chaotic is great at is being able to modify and customize the deck to counter stuff
If Chaotic came back, I would love to see LGS/Tournament support in some official way. I never had people around me other than me into the game so I wasn't able to enjoy Chaotic as much. Crossing fingers for the future!
Way back when the Chaotic website was up, I was consistently in the 3v3 top 10 by using the double Bladez with Chaor TF cheese. In 6v6 there was some counterplay for it, but in 3v3 there was close to none lol. I remember in 3v3 there were so many fun cheese teams you could use, and I really hope they bring Chaotic back at some point in the near future.
Recently found out that the game may come back and I really hope it does. Collected the cards as a kid but never played bc none of my friends wanted to play it.
Here's hoping--there have been rumours all over the place, but nothing set in stone yet. I think the creators were going to try airing some reruns of the show and see if there was interest. The show's cancellation was largely due corporate issues rather than a lack of interest, so I think there's a least a chance, albeit slim, for a comeback
Y’all can play if you have a computer! It’s Chaotic Recode a fan made game. You make your deck and then play against other people online. Hopefully the actual game comes back soon! I need another TCG to collect ❤
Xelfe and Jorre (another Range-granting Mipedian) combo hilariously with Aer'dak, a Fluidmorpher that can spend 20 counters to destroy every opposing creature with Range. Since Xelfe and Jorre can give opposing creatures Range, hitting 20 fluid counters lets you instantly delete half of your opponent's army. If we're talking design mistakes, Aer'dak is probably one of them.
as a danian player void of the dirge legit almost made me cry for my mandiblors, luckily it pushed me to use other strategies, like using danian nobles, elemental damage or powerin tru with makromil in the front line its not always wise to base your entire games trategy in a single game type, i learned that the hard way
Yeah, it's good to have a fall back. You don't want a Deck that is dependent on ONE strategy or a Deck that has so many different things going for it, that it's completely unplayable. Like having attacks that only half the Creatures on your team can use.
That was an interesting watch! But I kinda have to disagree on a few things! I mean, for exemple, the Void Dirge problem: That card is really only useful when you're fighting Danians! And even then, Danians that uses the specific strategy you just explained! And, I guess, it can also stop that Revive Mugic which I forgot the name but remember it existed. But my point is: Cards like that are very counter-specific. You have to know that your opponent is counting on having specific cards in their graveyard for their strategy to work, which is not that common; if they don't, and you're running a Void Dirge, well, you're just using up one Mugic card which you could have for your own strategy instead! Same thing with Najarin, Fluidmorphers' Foe: Unless you know your opponent is gonna play a M'arrilian deck, that card is basically just a basic support, and better options would exist. You wouldn't run that card unless you know specifically what you're gonna play against. Basically, I don't think that counter-specific decks like those two cards should be kicked out of the game. They are only good when you know in advance what you're gonna face; beyond that you wouldn't run them in your deck.
Najarin's effect would have been less broken if he didn't start with 3 Mugic Counters. If he started with 0 and gained them at the same rate as Fluidmorphers, it'd have been less annoying since he wouldn't already start with a HUGE advantage.
@@themanicpineapple8772 Especially since if the team has multiple Fluidmorphers he'd have a harder time keeping up with them. Or maybe worse. I don't know. :P
I think I was the only one running a strategy that was focused on a overworld superior Courage and wisdom stats. Every creature had a minimum of 85 in both and didnt play elements. I became regional champion with this strategy just as 4Kids hung itself....
There were so many cool things Overworlders could pull off! I think the reason so many people remember the game fondly is because of the variety and creativity of deck building and playstyles. Sorry you peaked right as the game ended, but on the bright side, that technically makes you the all-time reigning champion of your region unless the game comes back ;)
Maxor(armored) aveinnia(nightelf art), and fractal(not the common). That was my front row. Aveinnia was the focus and MVP. It's been too long and i don't remember what the rest of the deck was made of. I do remember that having stats that were higher than the tribeless Stat draining guys was huge and the fact that the attack deck hit for a stable 20-30 damage before the character attack buffs made it very powerful.
An idea for fixing Backrow hate is buffing/rebalancing Defender. An idea is providing a stat bonus to creatures when they successfully defend: Defend: This creature can defend creatures when they are targeted for an attack. When you successfully defend a creature, Increase this creature gains Surprise (it gains the ability to make the first attack each combat) or Intimate x discipline. This way it promotes building defenders to protect certain types of creatures. I actually think that Warbeast Griif-ian?’s defender: Conjurer was a good balance idea but I think it would be more interesting if it added more to it like Defender + when defending he gains a bonus to Energy and Recklessness. This boosts both the Defender ability and makes Stat challenges stronger (if you include the Intimate bonus to Defender)
While I agree that cards like Najarin FMF is pretty bad game design in that it denies an entire play strategy, I feel like the logic of things like void dirge and forgotten origins existing is also to keep revival strategies in check to an extent. A good example of this is the aforementioned Danian Compost deck. Prior to the heat death of the game, there was a deck called "infinite neekwin" that essentially was an infinite revive mandiblor deck that revolved around a series of combo cards to continuously give rhamavhir 2 counters to infinitely bring back neekwin which served to outgrind your opponent. If you weren't playing some form of general graveyard hate, the deck would guarantee outgrind with things like supercool rain and twister of elements. Testing it with several decks, I realized that if your deck didn't have some form of infinite recursion itself, you would inevitably be outgrinded by the deck which itself makes it a pretty bad strategy (infinite loops not fun). However siding in something like void dirge meant that I had an out to the strategy "sometimes" depending on how the revival deck wanted to play around such a card. I don't like that i have to give up this one mugic slot to answer said deck but the absence of a game two in competitive formats means that you main your side deck outs at the cost of losing that slot as a form of balance
A banlist or set rotation would be better in this instance to solve infinites. And the issue with Void Dirge was it could remove up to 3 targets. That makes any deck that wants/needs cards in the GY unplayable. If the goal was to prevent someone from reviving 1 creature over and over the better trick would be to have a mugic that banishes 1 card (and you can play up to 2 copies if it is a GY heavy meta.) That way someone can play Danians like Makanaz or Illa... The one that boosts Mandiblore disciplines. Decks that power up over time can be just as fun as a deck that tries to overwhelm the opponent. An Underworld Fire Boost aggro deck could wipe the board early only for a clever comeback. If the Underworld Deck played Void Dirge then they either win the first 2-3 battles or outright lose.
Eh, I think some of these points are fair, but some aren't. Danian compost is a *damn* good deck that begs to have outs; the reason nobody from back-in-the-day remembers it much is that Danians were a super unpopular deck type (despite being busted), & the best Danian compost combo pieces were printed late in the game's life, so it didn't get much time to shine. Personally the Bladez combo is just... a combo. It's not *that* gamebreaking given 15 damage is hovering around the average of Attack Damage output per-turn anyway. I mean, most decks don't use the high or low cost Attack cards unless they have good effects, so most Attack cards deal 5-15 damage anyway. As for Zamool... I mean, I have a soft spot for him (a friend of mine gave me a max Energy Zamol as a gift aft. the game was dead for years, so...), but he is a busted card. He *is* beatable in a metagame, since he's got lowish energy (50-60), one element (earth), & *one* good stat (speed); plus the Tribe he's a part of doesn't usually use earth & speed anyway, so you're forced to run an unorthodox lineup (which I think is fine)... OR run Kopond burn (which obviously isn't okay). As for Van Bloot SoA, I think he's reasonably balanced. He's a strong card, no doubt, but he's pretty easy to beat, all things considered. Most frontline creatures have pretty high courage stats (Maxxor, Chaor, Blazvatan, etc.) which make triggering SoA a pain since he's a vanilla unless the opposing courage is less than 65. Sure, he's got two elements, but no other Underworlder has those two elements, so you need to run mixed Tribes (which carries its own problems) or focus on only one of the elements. Chaotic was a pretty unbalanced game, but most of us didn't know that, since the most borked cards were way too expensive for any of us to afford. Zamool + Kopond High Muge is very expensive already, let alone the rest of the deck.
While cards like Lord Van Bloot and Zamool seem like pretty much mistakes, I think the case for Void Dirge and the Backrow Hate is different. Void Dirge sounds like a real hose to Mandiblor decks, but if not every deck uses their grave, isn't it just a dead card, depending on the matchup? If the game supports enough archetype variety, then maybe narrow counters won't be nearly as powerful or present. The same may go for Bladez: if you dilute the consistency of the combo by introducing, for example, easier disruption, wouldn't it be put in check? I feel like this kind of approach is better than a "It has to go" kind of mindset. (I don't actually know how Chaotic's gameplay works, so I understand I might be entirely wrong. I'm just coming from a Game Design perspective.)
Chaotic Channel has this video in a playlist. Let's hope that means whoever they have on the design side is receptive (and hopefully have grown as game devs, or hired some more seasoned game devs to have input on the experience).
To be fair, the rarity on almost all of those cards listed was very high. As in, you better be dumping $$$ on packs or trades to get these cards. Doesn't excuse poor design, but it shouldn't be something you see at every table you play at.
as someone who studies game design, in my opinion, the title can be a little misleading, cause the point of the video is about the balance of the game, but when I read the title, it looked like the video would be about the structure of the game, basically, I thought the video would be about the rules when it was about the cards that follow those rules, and the "in 5 simple steps" part is problematic, cause in a new version, could have other problems of balance that could be as damaging as the ones you talked about in this video
Glad you mentioned the banlist. Most of the stuff you mentioned that's gamebreaking has been banned. The reason xelfe is still allowed is a couple of reasons hes the only mipedian with 3mc. (Kobbari has a controversal history about his legality) and honestly the majority of players still run Defenders or ways to save your backrow as skeletal steed and cards like Kolmo or takinom sk(usually with steed). And generally defender is just always good. Lomma dw,malvadine tkh,illexia,tangath general or basically and khrall with a shard will give defender anyway the players that dont run these either get the value out of the backrow early or just dont care to lose them so much as we used to. Its just part of the game.
I see what you mean. I just feel like it limits deck creation a little too much. If there were a greater variety of cards with defender-like abilities, then you wouldn't be stuck running one of maybe.... 3 decent protection cards in a Overworld deck? I love the deck building variety in chaotic, and I just think backrow hate as it currently exists overcentralizes the meta a bit too much. That said, I respect your opinion.
@@themanicpineapple8772 you're very right about that. Bi-mower should of been on the inital write up for the list I'm surprised we missed it while we we're making it. Mostly because I used it in every deck as it was to good not too use.
I remember finding Chaotic long after its death. After playing a few games and all found myself saying was "well that seems broken as fuck, how is that not banned?" And then I remembered I was playing a dead game...
There is a banlist in the chaotic discord! most of the cards that are in this video are on it too, so the game isnt AS broken anymore. (there is still some annoying stuff tho)
I would also say to kill Burn decks and strategies as well. You said Range was an issue since creatures could just kill your backline. Well without 1 of 2 equipment cards (Mindprobe) any creature could just get hit with 2 Canon of Casualties and then battlegear that can be instantly sacrificed to deal an additional 15 damage each. 55+ damage for 2 mugicians and an item, that insta-kills basically any backline creature and a lot of warriors. It isn't fun for a deck to kill opposing creatures before a creature has even moved. I was going to learn and get into the game a year or two ago and then the first 2 people who offered to teach me just pulled out burn decks and killed my 2 win-cons before I had a chance to play. And I know I could just copy a meta deck but Burn is just not a fun deck to play against in any competitive card game. What motivation do I have to get into the game if I just go against decks that ignore the central focus of the game in army selection and battles?
You can counter them with certain Mugics, but I agree. It's annoying to fight someone who stacks their deck with Mugics that are all about dealing damage. Even your tankiest Creatures will be destroyed and it's not fun to play again. People say I Rage Quit, but I take it more not wasting my time fighting a broken piece of Meta BS.
@@Igarappappa The thing is I don't mind really strong meta outright. The only area a card game can be balanced is the meta decks, you can't expect a playground deck to be equal or similar to something a guy used to win a locals & also be able to take on stuff people with unlimited economic resources and years of pro-card game experience. The issue is when the deck is more of a rogue contendor that wins by playing outside of the normal strategy. Take the best few decks from the top of the tier list against the deck I made and the game would play like I was also playing a top deck (except I would be losing badly.) But with a burn deck we are playing a totally different game.
Yeah, not much else I can say other than that I agree entirely. Obviously having the option to target the opposing backrow is a great tactic in theory, but it can't become overbearing to the point where it overcentralizes the meta
@@themanicpineapple8772 The thing is I don't see the [fun] value in being able to target "backrow" in this instance. We are both Yugioh-brained it seems so I will compare it that way. Mugic is more like backrow, particularly quickplay spells. They can be cast whenever or when a select condition can be filled and are quite flexible. Muges themselves are the way to activate that backrow, killing a player's mugician is like activating a one-sided floodgate. The burn player is getting to activate their backrow/win-con (Canon of Casualty spam) while the opposing player loses access to their ability to play cards. In other words Chaotic Burn is like dropping a kaiju on the opponent's Subterror Guru then activating a Mystic Mine turn 1. The card game we are playing is now fundamentally different than Yugioh/Chaotic. I would propose that damaging mugic/items shouldn't kill a creature outside of combat. Then they just need to put a couple of cards on the banlist and avoid making a plethora of items/mugic/abilities that deal more than 10 damage or so or have more difficult activation conditions. Canon of Casualty is a uniquely strong card, it is a way to stack *20* damage on top of an attack in a game where it is rare for creatures to have more than 60 base energy. It isn't like it becomes unusable if you can't use it to kill a backline Lore turn 0.
And this is why Yu-gi-oh! has a banlist. A well made game is versatile and has an inmense ammount of possibilities, so it makes sense that one or 2 of those ends up broken as heck, hence the need to ban certain key components of a combo.
Speaking as someone who mained both Danian and M'arillian decks... this is bringing back all sorts of pain. XD Thank you for advocating for Chaotic! I miss playing it.
Lol yeah unfortunatley the community got a bit overhyped when the creator said he was looking into rebooting the series. Noone has any clues when that reboot might happen, just that its on the table
I use to play a combo of blazbatan and high wind war beasts with aerodrone. Basically I knew what cards were coming up in my attack deck at all times and they all did between 15-30 damage. By the time the opponent got to attack it was to late
My mandiblor deck never suffers I run hermatred with Ilexia the Danian Queen so even if a mandiblor died Ilexia would build up mugic counters. Between that and me infecting all my opponent’s creatures I was essentially guaranteed mandiblors with over 120 energy
That's a deck variant that definitely doesn't suffer from graveyard removal. Poor Robert never had an Ilexia, so his stats revolved way more around the grave. In the later years, he started to build stats around our counterplay though, and it's still possible to win with Danians in the current Meta to my understanding, even at top levels of play. They're a varied and versatile archetype, and super cool to play against imo.
One thing I'd want them to do is clear up a few rules and also some card effects cause a few of them are worded in a way that gets really confusing on what they actually DO.
Yeah, they really need a more in-depth rulebook (nowhere in the instruction booklets does it say creatures energy reset at the end of every turn.) And it definitely would need some variant of Problem Solving Card Text like Yugioh made back in the day
That, good viewer, is a question no one knows the answer to :p There's a petition floating around to get it back, and the creators implied that if reruns of the show pick up traction, then they'll consider it. That said, there's no clear cut confirmation that the game is coming back.
@@themanicpineapple8772 no it's 100% coming back. When I met him at vegas at the Licensing Expo and did the interview I talked to him and many others for a few hours. As for the timeframe well they were hoping to do an announcment near the end of this year. (2020 source:Bryan, late 2020 source:Dragonix) with all of the things that have happened this year I doubt they will announce anything and I honestly don't blame them. It's a bad time to restart a company.
My friends' biggest problem with the game and what prevented me from ever playing more than two games irl with the starter decks was how much of a huge pain in the ass keeping track of the various stats were. With Yu-Gi-Oh we could just put 8000.8 in one calculator and easily keep track of life points and since monsters only have one stat that matters based on position that wasn't a problem to keep track of. Also didn't help that the dainian starter was way overpowered compared to the other 3.
I love caotic soo much many thimes but in serbia you have problem with the unpopural tcg, so you dont have ANYWHERE to buy chaotic cards, u can buy yugioh, pokemon, mtg but thats so expensive. That is the problem in my country and i think that wouldnt change. And yeah i think about the start play chaoitc and collect that cards.
I was very much once they come.out a marlliain player using the stat drop kill strategy if it came back I definitely give up my current game in heart beat I still have most of my old card collection
Only really collected the cards as a wasn’t close to game shops to buy packs often and b no one I knew played the game in school and there wasn’t much of a community although few years later o played with a friend against his danians and well my combo with Borth Majar and Barrath Beyond didn’t help much against him assimilating my troops poor H’earring didn’t stand a chance
I think iut of your solutions for back row hate, i think making a more defender oriented vlass of card makes sense that way you have an interesting rock paper scissors of defenders support and offensive beaters without having to remove swift or range as your designated defender can swat away targets for you. I also think with elemental hate just having resistance to elemental types is a great response instead of removing the element all together
Fluidmorphers + super chilled rain +mugician steal + glacier plains marillian heat cannon The result? You amass a ton of mugic counters building towards an instant win effect that you can lock your opponent out of using
I see why xelfe isn't fan baned its because its a once use its till the end of the turn which if you can counter it make it so it can never be used again
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It seems chaotic is close to coming back. They recently re-uploaded the entire show on their own channel and Brian Gannon is teasing some stuff. I really like your chaotic videos they look so clean and are very funny. I hope you do more of them!
Glad you enjoyed the videos :) And here's hoping our beloved card game makes a return some day
Oh please I loved the show
Not to mention how much of a nightmare it is to find space for Tribe hate cards. Like they're basically useless when played against other tribes cause all their power is in that you insta win against one specific tribe
When Chaotic returns, I can guarantee new RUclips personalities will pop up explaining the game's history and rules
Honestly, I'd encourage it. I'm hopeful that if the game returned, it would come back with newer levels of nuance and depth for the now older audience of players who fell in love with the game so long ago. Here's hoping it makes a return
I loved chaotic . So diverse. All monsters have different stats so even if you get the same card your max or might have high wisdom or low health. So just opening is fun. The variety of cards from monsters to locations to mugic or battle gear or attacks made so many options. I loved the set up how you have to position your cards and choose who attacks who. And having a cool cartoon was a great too
All I saw was the TITLE of #3, and immediately went "Leave Bladez alone" lol. My fav card
Hey did you know there is a chaotic discord where you can talk to a whole active community.
Always glad to see more chaotic content created. Side note to everyone reading this. Epic story media just posted the entire series on RUclips so go watch some and show support for the show.
This is a pretty great video. I was a huge fan of Chaotic as a kid but I never got the opportunity to participate in a wider community. So I'm very pleased to hear about someone else's opinions on the game. Keep it up!
Thanks yo :) If this game ever comes back, it'll be great to see how people who had their own isolated local metas contribute weird and awesome strategies. Here's hoping
I don't even know how I got here nor anything about how the actual card game works, just a fan of the show, but I was hugely entertained by how you presented everything. Excellent video.
Thanks yo! I tried to keep everything as accessible as possible for people who aren't as well acquainted with the intricacies of the competitive scene, so I'm glad you enjoyed it
Man the time I spent playing Chaotic! The "simping for Aa'une" literally killed me XD
Glad you liked the video Jeremy ;)
i would love to start replaying chaotic i dont remember much about it but i remember playing water and i would love to see a game where i explore the world of chaotic and do drone matches then explore parum aswell would be lit
i came into the game a bit latter then i would have liked (2010 or something) due to having had a bad event happen in my life before that. so when i started was right at the end so i got to play the game only a few times before it was gone. i as a game designer love seeing how players would fix problems that got past the beta phase. now that my son (age 5) is expressing an interest in the game im happy to see that hope exists that the game will return.
Great video! I think most of these issues can be solved by implementing a side-deck and an official banlist.
Cool video. Love the music btw. You cannot have 3 Rao pa sahkk - condensation ceremony cause chaotic has a rule of 2. You can't have 3 of the same cards
Glad you liked the video :) And yeah, my bad--I had yugioh on my mind when I made the 3 copies comment.
I agree with everything you said.
This video will help me a lot in my small project of rewritting every Chaotic card to balance the entire game XD.
This is old but I just want to say about the "X damage" thing
Marillians, they are one hell of an example of this. It honestly feels like they were built to just get off Cannon soldier combos.
You know I was thinking that they should have the kids in the cartoon as cards as well, with Perim costumes. They can't have attacks or us mugick. But they can use more battle gear and switch locations.
Perhaps it’s because I haven’t played the game as much. But the Bladez Husk Armor combo does seem like bad game design or OP. It sounds like your friend was just big brain and had a strong combo.
Yes it’s an incredibly strong combo, but it has counterplay. Very easy counterplay at that, if you shut down either Bladez special ability or his battlegear. Only one needs to be stopped for the combo to fall apart
Either Bladez loses all the extra energy with his battlegear gone, or he loses his ability and now has to actually deal with the fact that he’s not doing any damage anymore.
Yo I think it’s awesome you’re making this video I love chaotic and almost no one makes chaotic videos so keep up the good work. Also I think you should make a video on the most op things about chaotic like magmom in the lava pond with a vile driver and like using katharaz with a danian music called rocky refrain with a pyroblaster
Ok out of context my name is Luciano I use to play underworld but I don't know you haha xD great video have a good day
Hey, my name is "MrShinori" or as you know me in the discord "Boruto dad's" (Father of Boruto) and I am a brazilian player who is quite used to physical meta game.
I will give my honest opinion about the video as someone who knows and understands the six meta decks (yes six, we in Brazil have created a competitive malvadine for the no-list format). I won't take the banlist into account, because this is a crybaby thing. (I apologize for my average English).
1 - I agree and disagree about the background hate, if new cards are made, I agree that it should have a higher cost for that. But with the ones that only exist, it doesn't make sense to complain, and about defending, 5/6 target decks can use defend without interfering with the strategy.
-Aivenna can use Toborn general with burithen axe(70e and intimidate 10e) or looma desert with familiar aquatic (+20e from ikka and +50w from aquatic), plus 2mc. Or just use a full party with no element and hune pantanin, all became warriors.
-Malvadine have 2 malvadine with defender.
-Neekwin have makanaz and neekwin with defender given by illexia.
-Ursis and Aer'dak can use toborn with burithen(Plus disarm if you have a mipedian) or looma with evergreen. (GENERAL TOBORN IS A BEST!)
-Bloot burn... well, blow it all up or use Agitos to force combat.
You can even say that there is Pouril Forest, but if you use two, it's a 20% chance, and like it or not, card game is luck.
2 - Elemental hate I agree that it is very broken. Van Bloot SOA need a errata, just erasing the "and cannot gain" part.
The meta evolves to "decks that can beat LVBSOA", Aerdak and Burn have bloot, soo turn intro mirror hate, neekwin is more luck, supercooled +2 unbalancy, malvadine have trills, aivenna and ursis dont use elements. But the great problem is hate locations, you don't have defense for that.
3 - Bladez is Meeh, it's fit in Ursis, but is not soo strong when you have ozlai and garv on the meta, but meek, well, pure meek is the strongest rogue deck in chaotic, and you use meek + afjac + husk armor in Aerdak, it's fucking idiot and broken.
4 - As a neekwin main player... I agreed 100%, one forest or lore chamber in the wrong time and i lose the game automatic kkkkkkkkkk
5 - I'm going to get beaten up for playing devil's advocate, but... Zamool isn't that broken... at least for the meta. For the forfun format, yes, this thing is VERY broken. But in meta... nah.
Neekwin with mipedin's flute is immune to burn, malvadine decks are immune to target, aivenna with AZAIA and mirror burn can fight back. Ursis and Aer'dak not so well kkkkkk
Supercooled is much broken, and neekwin can abuse with twister. Aerdak too, and using bloot or afjac meek combo. Rao'pa/Dranakis is broken too, Neekwin and Aer'dak /Malvadine can abuse, but again, is just a 20% chance, and is luck.
I really liked your video, great job! I could see that you really searched and learned a lot about the game to create it. Congratulations and best wishes.
Make a chaotic channel! Best chaotic video yet
Also! I feel like its worth it to talk about how broken Siril'ean is
Oh Gosh--he's a tough nut to crack. Definitely a strong backrow creature
I see the Chaotic to JoJo pipeline is valid.
The best strat will forever be Khorror with a Stone Mail. and no conjurers
Until someone destroys the Stone Mail.
This is actually really cool! Is there a place where chaotic cards are sold or a simulator
Check the community Discord out and said Discord recently created a website called "Chaotic Recoded" which you can just google: "Chaotic Recode" and it is the first link. It is a slightly automated simulator like Ygopro if you have ever used that.
Good work man, you really understand the game
2:14 *teleports behind you*
NANI?
dont know if its been said, but pretty sure you can only run 2 of the same location in a location deck, not 3
Yay , even more anime background music
Always :)
i admit , i played a little of chaotic , always waiting for a maxxor or a chaor ,but i dont have a chance (at least on the real game)
the web page on the other hand , trading cards with other players give me those i wanted and played great (not a pro but good) , i want this game to be back (with the codes on the cards refreshed as not registrated on the page to give them a second chance),
i gave much to this game (ver .1 cards) i even have my over and under worlds team separated but complete for any chance, good luck and lets get chaotic
Doesn't Chaotic have a rule that states you can only play two copies unless it's a unique or legendary card?
Yeah, he got the playset number wrong (among other things).
I mean, this is a metagame take made by somebody who was only ever a casual, so this whole vid is only... vaguely accurate.
Danian compost is *great;* it needs to have a few counters. Zamool is a busted card (but only absolutly busted when paired with Kopond High Muge, w/out Kopond he's only mildly busted. If both were Legendary it wouldn't have been as much of a problem).
Lord Van Bloot, SoA is actually pretty balanced for reasons I can get into (Courage is a high stat among frontliners like Maxxor, Chaor, Blazvatan, etc. so the eff doesn't always go off; Earth & Water as a combo aren't seen in any other UWs, so you need to adopt some other strat like mixed army w/out Chieftans; making an attack deck that only uses earth; making an earth-water attack deck tailored for Van Bloot but *none* of your other creatures).
Plus the Bladez combo seems pretty innocent to me. Most well-built Attack Decks can put out 15 damage per attack on a regular basis; why not Bladez?
@@jeandehuit5385 Same, and we have mugic like Discord of disarming and Invisibility disarm to negate Bladez huskarmor.
Great vídeo man greetings from Brazil
i like zamool. wish i could run his twin brother.... my second copy of zamool :)
Do you still have cards or collect cards? Also if so you should do a video just showing off your collection
That would make for one hell of a long video
😅 I still own all of my old cards. Not sure if that would be something all that many people would be interested in, but I'll keep it in the back of my mind ;)
Great video man!
Many thanks :)
Awesome vid and earned a new sub. I loved chaotic back in the day and hoping it comes back. Any news lately?
Glad you liked the video! As for Chaotic "coming back"... that may just have been some hyperbole from some parts of the internet sadly. But, here's hoping some day it makes its glorious return
its pretty weird that his cards all had stats. i only bought 1 starter pack deck and it had no stats. just elements on the card, basic abilities, basic battle gear and mugic. no one really played the game so i just simulated a couple of battles vs myself to see how the game plays and the biggest pitfall was what you described in regards to elements. The fact that most attacks did 0 damage if your creature had wrong element basically meant that best strategy was to just stack 6 creatures with fire/air/earth or water and make your entire deck based off a single element attack.
In my version of rulebook of the game, you couldn't use mugic from *any* creature for the backrow of the game. you could only use mugic on creature that you were battling, so if 1 monster had 1 mugic, only that creature could use its 1 mugic. They probably changed something in the rulebook in regards to backrow because in the show, only creature in battle could use mugics.
I think this is the type of card game that was terrible in human card-game practice and the type of card game that could only work in online video games. the real life card element of the game takes away entire nuance of strategy in the game. If this was more like action-rpg online battler with cards like show suggests, then it would be good game. The game just being card game just didn't cut it. that's probably why the show went bankrupt because while show was good, the actual card game was notoriously bad in gameplay.
What they needed to do is make game online-based with dynamic battle system, dynamic locations and put strategical elements in the game in regards to stats like in show. In the show, it was actual cool because player took part in battles. The locations meant something. It wasn't just "Lava pond: Deal 5 extra fire damage". It was, "Force pulse!, push into lava pond -coded-". Locations had strategy. Stats had meaning. Wisdom(Courage) confused the player. Speed allowed the player to dodge attacks. Intellect made the creature have more attack-options and made them smarter at using the location and power controlled damage in attacks. Battle gear customized how the player used the creature. in the card game, it was just some stat change(like add water element". Mugic had powerful effects like fordeticimo made maxxor huge in show and entirely created strategies to create kill-combos.
The card game being a paper-card game could not replicate the epic battles of the show. if they ever revive the show and the game, they need to make chaotic into a triple AAA video game like Elden ring where you make an open world game to explore pariem in which you scan creatures as a human but if you die. you lose the scans. The game could have mutiplayer component and story-line single player component. Story-line mode is your own personal mode where you talk to AI characters and battle 7 codemasters to beat the game(little bit like pokemon). The mutiplayer is its own drome battles with real time combat. The combat would work little bit like MMO games where each creature has spellbook of attacks it can use and based off the intellect stat, you can only equip x number of attacks. So for example, if a creature has 30 intellect, it would only have 2 attacks(2 fire, 2 water, 2 wind, 2 earth) but creature with 45 intellect could equip 3 attacks(3 fire, 3 water, 3 wind, 3 earth). Power decides what attacks the creature is allowed to use, (creature with lower power have lower selection of attack spells). Speed decides how much manoeuvre ability the player has in dodging attacks(Some attack can be homing, though the player can use an attack to cancel a homing attack). Wisdom(Courage) allows the creature to use locations and resist debuffs from attack spells. If a creature courage is low, you lose control of the creature(Like the control become backwards/attack become unclear from opponent) kinda like show with maxxor where Lord Von Bloot uses Decomposition and Maxxor becomes confused in the show when Major Tom uses Maxxor with 5 courage(wisdom). The elements on creatures would allow attack-card to activate its special ability. The special ability of the attack would work based off wisdom check(on your creature and could be resist in some cases by your enemy if the attack has stat-check wisdom). This would be far more compelling version of the game over its human card variant that went nowhere in term of popularity.
Chaotic was way ahead of its time in term the idea of Virtual reality. The card game was a good idea executed badly. They need to scrap human-card game version and start all over in electronic video game form if they ever revive the game/show.
How many ppl still play?? Idk
Been out since the end of cartoon
I want them to implement some creatures as battle gear as they did in the show
I see a lot of potential in that mechanic! They've created entire archetypes around that in Yugioh, so I'm curious to know how that could work in Chaotic.
@@themanicpineapple8772 they could do something simple as having a text box similar to brainwash
For me, I would play it if was in video game form, and only if I don't need to pay real money to attain the cards.
Dude, do you think you could credit me for using my video at 3:26? I dont mind if you use my videos in yours but at least cite the video and credit the creator.
Heyo! Serena will get on that when she gets home--hopefully she can find a way to do so in post. I'm usually better at leaving the name of the material that I'm using on display in my videos, but I missed the mark this time around. While I can't go about asking every content creator for permission to use snippets of their videos (as it would be impractical to contact every video creator and musician I make reference to in a video), the least I can do is credit most of the snippets that I do use--especially since the small but passionate Chaotic community should see who's trying to keep the scene alive ;) I'll be throwing your channel link in the description as well when Serena gets back, and I'll work toward being more consistent with my crediting in the future.
@@themanicpineapple8772 Thank you. Sorry, normally I wouldnt care about something like this too much but since your just starting out your channel, I figured itd be best to mention it so as to help remind you about citing sources. Personally I didnt mind that much but I know other content creators who are very anal about that and I'd rather not see such a great channel (you) get marred with any drama or anything in the future.
Mepedian 4 lif
since you were a chain burn player, I dunno if you’ve read the “Tachyon Transmigration” card.
But if you haven’t, I’d like to see your reaction to it.
YAY VIDEO
YAY COMMENT
Late to the party, but they should also get rid of that randomized stats nonsense.
if it comes back it just needs a whole new design all together to make it balanced and easy for new players to understand how to play
I do think one of the thing's it's got going for it is ease of access. Then again, maybe that's just my anecdotal experience (my friends caught on pretty quick when they played for the first time, even though there is some iconography to memorize)
I have to disagree. It is a chaotic game with a back and forth of war changing abilities. Both sides have it and you need to be prepared for a nightmare.
I think that just because both sides have access to the same abilities doesn't innately make things balanced. Yes, in Smash Bros Brawl, the response to "Meta Knight is broken and needs to be banned" was oftentimes "well, just play Meta Knight then", which I think is a silly response that overcentralizes the meta. People have tended to regret taking this position in hindsight.
Needing to build your deck around one particular strategy limits creativity and the combinations of unique player interactions. I respect if you like the game as is, but my friends and I preferred variety and thus chose to ban the backrow hate (the current competitive community has also done a pretty great job of doing that already).
So basically let people play the game how they want? I wish Yugioh still did that (or at all ever)
This guy sure wouldn't like modern Yugioh.
I actually played competitive Yugioh until around the Qliphort meta and then bounced. I did definitely feel like there wasn't enough back and forth between players and a lot of turn 1 scoops, particularly during the Dracosac period. Not sure if it's changed now
@@themanicpineapple8772 Current Yugioh is "completely shut down the opponent's ability to do anything" only way more busted to the point they have to print ridiculously overpowered cards designed to help the player going second have any chance of making even a single play, only players constantly figure out ways to get around said going second cards so they do little to fix anything.
Decks either make fields with a billion effect negations or put so many floodgates that the opponent basically has no means of doing anything. The entire point of the game now is literally to remove any pretense of back-n-forth interaction.
@@elin111 Sounds like all the fun of chewing glass :) I miss certain formats, but don't think I'll be jumping back in any time soon sadly.
@@themanicpineapple8772 It's the same reason I migrated to other tcgs mainly Vanguard, It has its fair share of power creep issues but the core mechanics of the game mean there will always be interaction between both players simply because of how the game is designed.
Whenever I feel like revisiting Yugioh I just boot up Legacy of the Duelist specifically for the AI opponents.
While I like the video the issues you're talking about are actually the reason I quit the game. These issues didn't exist in the first few expansions of the game. What you're complaining about arnt so much design flaws as egregious power creep by the developers to sell packs. Each new expansion began to obsolete the last. Almost every card you complained about didn't exist in the older expansions and only existed in the new ones to beat old expansions and sell cards.
So the lesson to learn above all else is to learn how to create cards that don't become worth buying just because they are superior in every way to older cards and strategies.
Also please change the stupid ranked ladder so you can knock people out of first place if they arnt playing. That shit was cancerous and really killed the game for me.
I just hate super-cool cool rain
Lame card. Rightfully banned in competitive thank god
I loved this as a kid but no one at my school knew what it was or played it.
Same
Sameee😭
saaaammeee
Yeah, at my school it was people collecting Pokémon cards, but never actually playing with them
Same
Awesome vid! Love to see other Chaotic video creators
Glad you enjoyed it :) And thanks for sharing the video on Twitter!
"Lord van bloot simping for aaune"
Lol that was great
Honestly I feel like a lot of these issues could be addressed with a side deck. Due to how long a single duel takes, they didnt do a standard best of 3 duels like other card games do. Hell because of the lack of a side deck some cards like Maxxor's torch were basically unplayable since you cant garuntee you'd always be dueling against what it was specifically designed to counter.
Couldn't agree more. I feel like maybe you could try side decking after a few battles or something? But that seems odd. 3v3s aren't as engaging, so that wouldn't work. Side decking is a tough thing to implement, but who knows: maybe they'll figure something out
@@themanicpineapple8772 yeah. I remember dragonix on the discord mentioned how they want to fix that since in hindsight it lead to some cards never seeing use despite them being good, albeit against a specific card type
Chaotic games aren't like Mtg and you know this. They always take a long time besides cetain decks stomping the opponent in 15 minutes, The average game takes about an hour. Side boarding and best of 3 would be a horrible idea. If you dont beleive me try it for yourself. Also sideboards would need more restrictions than MTG or you have things like tartareck psi making chiefs REALLY unplayable. Maxxors torch will also never be good because it says "you're opponent chooses". It would never see real play..not even in a sideboard.maybe some casual maxxor theme gimmic deck though.
@@chaotica-game985 yeah I know. It's just the first thing I can think of when it comes to fixing these issues other than banning the cards or never printing similar cards. Also I only brought up Maxxors torch cause it's the only card I can remember off the top of my head that specifically counters something.
You would probably want to change it to 3v3 then because 6v6 takes so long. And it does definitely feel like Pokemon in the "I brought counters for ___ deck, I hope I run into them." But some side-cards would be complete blowouts in Chaotic and would kill a lot of decks (namely M'arillians and Graveyard based decks.)
Also you totally missed a chance to finish the intro with Let’s get Chaotic
I thought about it! I was trying to keep with an 8bit/ retro new wave theme, so I decided to stick to the Giorno theme ;) Many tough decisions in post
13:39 Chaotic playsets come in 2s, not 3s.
Also najarin FF shuts off m'arrillian mugic activation, not their mugic cost abilites.
Thanks for the corrections--my brain was clearly in Yugioh mode when I said you could run 3 of any non-unique card :p
The mugic against Danian just forces you to choose a good side deck and rethink your creature positions. That’s one thing chaotic is great at is being able to modify and customize the deck to counter stuff
If Chaotic came back, I would love to see LGS/Tournament support in some official way. I never had people around me other than me into the game so I wasn't able to enjoy Chaotic as much. Crossing fingers for the future!
Way back when the Chaotic website was up, I was consistently in the 3v3 top 10 by using the double Bladez with Chaor TF cheese. In 6v6 there was some counterplay for it, but in 3v3 there was close to none lol. I remember in 3v3 there were so many fun cheese teams you could use, and I really hope they bring Chaotic back at some point in the near future.
Recently found out that the game may come back and I really hope it does. Collected the cards as a kid but never played bc none of my friends wanted to play it.
Here's hoping--there have been rumours all over the place, but nothing set in stone yet. I think the creators were going to try airing some reruns of the show and see if there was interest. The show's cancellation was largely due corporate issues rather than a lack of interest, so I think there's a least a chance, albeit slim, for a comeback
Same with me, even made an underworld deck just in case but never got the chance to play it
Y’all can play if you have a computer! It’s Chaotic Recode a fan made game. You make your deck and then play against other people online. Hopefully the actual game comes back soon! I need another TCG to collect ❤
Xelfe and Jorre (another Range-granting Mipedian) combo hilariously with Aer'dak, a Fluidmorpher that can spend 20 counters to destroy every opposing creature with Range. Since Xelfe and Jorre can give opposing creatures Range, hitting 20 fluid counters lets you instantly delete half of your opponent's army. If we're talking design mistakes, Aer'dak is probably one of them.
Actually, it's worse. Aer'dak's destroy creature's with range only costs 10 and not 20.
@@adamdiner I stand corrected! It's super hard to read the number inside the heptagon lol
@@ZK-cd8jo That's extremely understandable.
as a danian player void of the dirge legit almost made me cry for my mandiblors, luckily it pushed me to use other strategies, like using danian nobles, elemental damage or powerin tru with makromil in the front line
its not always wise to base your entire games trategy in a single game type, i learned that the hard way
Yeah, it's good to have a fall back. You don't want a Deck that is dependent on ONE strategy or a Deck that has so many different things going for it, that it's completely unplayable. Like having attacks that only half the Creatures on your team can use.
That was an interesting watch! But I kinda have to disagree on a few things! I mean, for exemple, the Void Dirge problem: That card is really only useful when you're fighting Danians! And even then, Danians that uses the specific strategy you just explained! And, I guess, it can also stop that Revive Mugic which I forgot the name but remember it existed. But my point is: Cards like that are very counter-specific. You have to know that your opponent is counting on having specific cards in their graveyard for their strategy to work, which is not that common; if they don't, and you're running a Void Dirge, well, you're just using up one Mugic card which you could have for your own strategy instead! Same thing with Najarin, Fluidmorphers' Foe: Unless you know your opponent is gonna play a M'arrilian deck, that card is basically just a basic support, and better options would exist. You wouldn't run that card unless you know specifically what you're gonna play against.
Basically, I don't think that counter-specific decks like those two cards should be kicked out of the game. They are only good when you know in advance what you're gonna face; beyond that you wouldn't run them in your deck.
Najarin's effect would have been less broken if he didn't start with 3 Mugic Counters. If he started with 0 and gained them at the same rate as Fluidmorphers, it'd have been less annoying since he wouldn't already start with a HUGE advantage.
Couldn't agree more
@@themanicpineapple8772 Especially since if the team has multiple Fluidmorphers he'd have a harder time keeping up with them. Or maybe worse. I don't know. :P
I think I was the only one running a strategy that was focused on a overworld superior Courage and wisdom stats. Every creature had a minimum of 85 in both and didnt play elements. I became regional champion with this strategy just as 4Kids hung itself....
There were so many cool things Overworlders could pull off! I think the reason so many people remember the game fondly is because of the variety and creativity of deck building and playstyles. Sorry you peaked right as the game ended, but on the bright side, that technically makes you the all-time reigning champion of your region unless the game comes back ;)
what were your creatures, mugic, and battlegear?
Maxor(armored) aveinnia(nightelf art), and fractal(not the common). That was my front row. Aveinnia was the focus and MVP. It's been too long and i don't remember what the rest of the deck was made of. I do remember that having stats that were higher than the tribeless Stat draining guys was huge and the fact that the attack deck hit for a stable 20-30 damage before the character attack buffs made it very powerful.
@@TheOriginalDraceus I think this is a wise guys deck. Ikkatosh that gives health is busted with the deck
An idea for fixing Backrow hate is buffing/rebalancing Defender. An idea is providing a stat bonus to creatures when they successfully defend: Defend: This creature can defend creatures when they are targeted for an attack. When you successfully defend a creature, Increase this creature gains Surprise (it gains the ability to make the first attack each combat) or Intimate x discipline. This way it promotes building defenders to protect certain types of creatures. I actually think that Warbeast Griif-ian?’s defender: Conjurer was a good balance idea but I think it would be more interesting if it added more to it like Defender + when defending he gains a bonus to Energy and Recklessness.
This boosts both the Defender ability and makes Stat challenges stronger (if you include the Intimate bonus to Defender)
While I agree that cards like Najarin FMF is pretty bad game design in that it denies an entire play strategy, I feel like the logic of things like void dirge and forgotten origins existing is also to keep revival strategies in check to an extent. A good example of this is the aforementioned Danian Compost deck. Prior to the heat death of the game, there was a deck called "infinite neekwin" that essentially was an infinite revive mandiblor deck that revolved around a series of combo cards to continuously give rhamavhir 2 counters to infinitely bring back neekwin which served to outgrind your opponent. If you weren't playing some form of general graveyard hate, the deck would guarantee outgrind with things like supercool rain and twister of elements. Testing it with several decks, I realized that if your deck didn't have some form of infinite recursion itself, you would inevitably be outgrinded by the deck which itself makes it a pretty bad strategy (infinite loops not fun). However siding in something like void dirge meant that I had an out to the strategy "sometimes" depending on how the revival deck wanted to play around such a card. I don't like that i have to give up this one mugic slot to answer said deck but the absence of a game two in competitive formats means that you main your side deck outs at the cost of losing that slot as a form of balance
A banlist or set rotation would be better in this instance to solve infinites. And the issue with Void Dirge was it could remove up to 3 targets.
That makes any deck that wants/needs cards in the GY unplayable. If the goal was to prevent someone from reviving 1 creature over and over the better trick would be to have a mugic that banishes 1 card (and you can play up to 2 copies if it is a GY heavy meta.) That way someone can play Danians like Makanaz or Illa... The one that boosts Mandiblore disciplines. Decks that power up over time can be just as fun as a deck that tries to overwhelm the opponent. An Underworld Fire Boost aggro deck could wipe the board early only for a clever comeback. If the Underworld Deck played Void Dirge then they either win the first 2-3 battles or outright lose.
Have you heard of legends f runeterra? This game has a lot of back and forth play. I had not had much fun playing card games except chaotic!
Alas I have not, but I'll be sure to look into it--thanks for the recomendation
There is an unoficial banlist to fix these issues among the fans and the maximum of copies is 2 of each in this game :P
I was definitely in Yugioh brain when I made the comment about 3 copies ;) Thanks for pointing it out, as it was clearly a little hiccup on my end
Eh, I think some of these points are fair, but some aren't.
Danian compost is a *damn* good deck that begs to have outs; the reason nobody from back-in-the-day remembers it much is that Danians were a super unpopular deck type (despite being busted), & the best Danian compost combo pieces were printed late in the game's life, so it didn't get much time to shine.
Personally the Bladez combo is just... a combo. It's not *that* gamebreaking given 15 damage is hovering around the average of Attack Damage output per-turn anyway. I mean, most decks don't use the high or low cost Attack cards unless they have good effects, so most Attack cards deal 5-15 damage anyway.
As for Zamool... I mean, I have a soft spot for him (a friend of mine gave me a max Energy Zamol as a gift aft. the game was dead for years, so...), but he is a busted card. He *is* beatable in a metagame, since he's got lowish energy (50-60), one element (earth), & *one* good stat (speed); plus the Tribe he's a part of doesn't usually use earth & speed anyway, so you're forced to run an unorthodox lineup (which I think is fine)... OR run Kopond burn (which obviously isn't okay).
As for Van Bloot SoA, I think he's reasonably balanced. He's a strong card, no doubt, but he's pretty easy to beat, all things considered. Most frontline creatures have pretty high courage stats (Maxxor, Chaor, Blazvatan, etc.) which make triggering SoA a pain since he's a vanilla unless the opposing courage is less than 65. Sure, he's got two elements, but no other Underworlder has those two elements, so you need to run mixed Tribes (which carries its own problems) or focus on only one of the elements.
Chaotic was a pretty unbalanced game, but most of us didn't know that, since the most borked cards were way too expensive for any of us to afford. Zamool + Kopond High Muge is very expensive already, let alone the rest of the deck.
While cards like Lord Van Bloot and Zamool seem like pretty much mistakes, I think the case for Void Dirge and the Backrow Hate is different. Void Dirge sounds like a real hose to Mandiblor decks, but if not every deck uses their grave, isn't it just a dead card, depending on the matchup? If the game supports enough archetype variety, then maybe narrow counters won't be nearly as powerful or present. The same may go for Bladez: if you dilute the consistency of the combo by introducing, for example, easier disruption, wouldn't it be put in check? I feel like this kind of approach is better than a "It has to go" kind of mindset.
(I don't actually know how Chaotic's gameplay works, so I understand I might be entirely wrong. I'm just coming from a Game Design perspective.)
Chaotic Channel has this video in a playlist.
Let's hope that means whoever they have on the design side is receptive (and hopefully have grown as game devs, or hired some more seasoned game devs to have input on the experience).
To be fair, the rarity on almost all of those cards listed was very high. As in, you better be dumping $$$ on packs or trades to get these cards.
Doesn't excuse poor design, but it shouldn't be something you see at every table you play at.
as someone who studies game design, in my opinion, the title can be a little misleading, cause the point of the video is about the balance of the game, but when I read the title, it looked like the video would be about the structure of the game, basically, I thought the video would be about the rules when it was about the cards that follow those rules, and the "in 5 simple steps" part is problematic, cause in a new version, could have other problems of balance that could be as damaging as the ones you talked about in this video
never played but really want to cant wait for the game to come back
Glad you mentioned the banlist. Most of the stuff you mentioned that's gamebreaking has been banned.
The reason xelfe is still allowed is a couple of reasons hes the only mipedian with 3mc. (Kobbari has a controversal history about his legality) and honestly the majority of players still run Defenders or ways to save your backrow as skeletal steed and cards like Kolmo or takinom sk(usually with steed). And generally defender is just always good. Lomma dw,malvadine tkh,illexia,tangath general or basically and khrall with a shard will give defender anyway the players that dont run these either get the value out of the backrow early or just dont care to lose them so much as we used to. Its just part of the game.
I see what you mean. I just feel like it limits deck creation a little too much. If there were a greater variety of cards with defender-like abilities, then you wouldn't be stuck running one of maybe.... 3 decent protection cards in a Overworld deck? I love the deck building variety in chaotic, and I just think backrow hate as it currently exists overcentralizes the meta a bit too much. That said, I respect your opinion.
@@themanicpineapple8772 you're very right about that. Bi-mower should of been on the inital write up for the list I'm surprised we missed it while we we're making it. Mostly because I used it in every deck as it was to good not too use.
I remember finding Chaotic long after its death. After playing a few games and all found myself saying was "well that seems broken as fuck, how is that not banned?" And then I remembered I was playing a dead game...
There is a banlist in the chaotic discord! most of the cards that are in this video are on it too, so the game isnt AS broken anymore. (there is still some annoying stuff tho)
I would also say to kill Burn decks and strategies as well. You said Range was an issue since creatures could just kill your backline. Well without 1 of 2 equipment cards (Mindprobe) any creature could just get hit with 2 Canon of Casualties and then battlegear that can be instantly sacrificed to deal an additional 15 damage each. 55+ damage for 2 mugicians and an item, that insta-kills basically any backline creature and a lot of warriors.
It isn't fun for a deck to kill opposing creatures before a creature has even moved. I was going to learn and get into the game a year or two ago and then the first 2 people who offered to teach me just pulled out burn decks and killed my 2 win-cons before I had a chance to play. And I know I could just copy a meta deck but Burn is just not a fun deck to play against in any competitive card game. What motivation do I have to get into the game if I just go against decks that ignore the central focus of the game in army selection and battles?
You can counter them with certain Mugics, but I agree. It's annoying to fight someone who stacks their deck with Mugics that are all about dealing damage. Even your tankiest Creatures will be destroyed and it's not fun to play again. People say I Rage Quit, but I take it more not wasting my time fighting a broken piece of Meta BS.
@@Igarappappa The thing is I don't mind really strong meta outright. The only area a card game can be balanced is the meta decks, you can't expect a playground deck to be equal or similar to something a guy used to win a locals & also be able to take on stuff people with unlimited economic resources and years of pro-card game experience.
The issue is when the deck is more of a rogue contendor that wins by playing outside of the normal strategy. Take the best few decks from the top of the tier list against the deck I made and the game would play like I was also playing a top deck (except I would be losing badly.) But with a burn deck we are playing a totally different game.
Yeah, not much else I can say other than that I agree entirely. Obviously having the option to target the opposing backrow is a great tactic in theory, but it can't become overbearing to the point where it overcentralizes the meta
@@themanicpineapple8772 The thing is I don't see the [fun] value in being able to target "backrow" in this instance.
We are both Yugioh-brained it seems so I will compare it that way. Mugic is more like backrow, particularly quickplay spells. They can be cast whenever or when a select condition can be filled and are quite flexible. Muges themselves are the way to activate that backrow, killing a player's mugician is like activating a one-sided floodgate. The burn player is getting to activate their backrow/win-con (Canon of Casualty spam) while the opposing player loses access to their ability to play cards.
In other words Chaotic Burn is like dropping a kaiju on the opponent's Subterror Guru then activating a Mystic Mine turn 1. The card game we are playing is now fundamentally different than Yugioh/Chaotic.
I would propose that damaging mugic/items shouldn't kill a creature outside of combat. Then they just need to put a couple of cards on the banlist and avoid making a plethora of items/mugic/abilities that deal more than 10 damage or so or have more difficult activation conditions. Canon of Casualty is a uniquely strong card, it is a way to stack *20* damage on top of an attack in a game where it is rare for creatures to have more than 60 base energy. It isn't like it becomes unusable if you can't use it to kill a backline Lore turn 0.
@@themanicpineapple8772 When your strat just boils down to raining down orbital strikes, it takes the fun and challenge out of it.
And this is why Yu-gi-oh! has a banlist. A well made game is versatile and has an inmense ammount of possibilities, so it makes sense that one or 2 of those ends up broken as heck, hence the need to ban certain key components of a combo.
We have a banlist, and all the cards except the blades combo in the video are on it.
Bro you gotta come back to RUclips! Your content is genuinely amazing. I could easily see this channel with 100k subs someday :)
Speaking as someone who mained both Danian and M'arillian decks... this is bringing back all sorts of pain. XD
Thank you for advocating for Chaotic! I miss playing it.
I'm so excited for chaotic to come back. I never played back in day but always wanted to so hearing it is getting rebooted got me super excited.
I keep hearing this is getting a comeback and it's coming back and I haven't heard a damn thing lol
Yeah... there's been some hyperbole from certain parts of the internet for sure. Here's hoping it does come back thoough
@@themanicpineapple8772 dude I never played the game but I wanna play the marillian deck looks awesome
@@shalucard107 I was super lucky: each one of my friends in the group played a different tribe, so I got to see so much experimentation and variety
Lol yeah unfortunatley the community got a bit overhyped when the creator said he was looking into rebooting the series. Noone has any clues when that reboot might happen, just that its on the table
@@wereweed2070 Covid hitting certainly didn't help either.
I use to play a combo of blazbatan and high wind war beasts with aerodrone. Basically I knew what cards were coming up in my attack deck at all times and they all did between 15-30 damage. By the time the opponent got to attack it was to late
War beasts ftw.
My mandiblor deck never suffers I run hermatred with Ilexia the Danian Queen so even if a mandiblor died Ilexia would build up mugic counters. Between that and me infecting all my opponent’s creatures I was essentially guaranteed mandiblors with over 120 energy
That's a deck variant that definitely doesn't suffer from graveyard removal. Poor Robert never had an Ilexia, so his stats revolved way more around the grave. In the later years, he started to build stats around our counterplay though, and it's still possible to win with Danians in the current Meta to my understanding, even at top levels of play. They're a varied and versatile archetype, and super cool to play against imo.
One thing I'd want them to do is clear up a few rules and also some card effects cause a few of them are worded in a way that gets really confusing on what they actually DO.
Yeah, they really need a more in-depth rulebook (nowhere in the instruction booklets does it say creatures energy reset at the end of every turn.) And it definitely would need some variant of Problem Solving Card Text like Yugioh made back in the day
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Playing it on Chaotic Recode cleared up a few things.
@@Igarappappa Yeah, I assume the same was true of the old simulator as well. They just need it in an instruction booklet somewhere.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Til then we have our own way to play.
Any idea when is chaotic making it's return??
That, good viewer, is a question no one knows the answer to :p There's a petition floating around to get it back, and the creators implied that if reruns of the show pick up traction, then they'll consider it. That said, there's no clear cut confirmation that the game is coming back.
@@themanicpineapple8772 no it's 100% coming back. When I met him at vegas at the Licensing Expo and did the interview I talked to him and many others for a few hours. As for the timeframe well they were hoping to do an announcment near the end of this year. (2020 source:Bryan, late 2020 source:Dragonix) with all of the things that have happened this year I doubt they will announce anything and I honestly don't blame them. It's a bad time to restart a company.
My friends' biggest problem with the game and what prevented me from ever playing more than two games irl with the starter decks was how much of a huge pain in the ass keeping track of the various stats were.
With Yu-Gi-Oh we could just put 8000.8 in one calculator and easily keep track of life points and since monsters only have one stat that matters based on position that wasn't a problem to keep track of.
Also didn't help that the dainian starter was way overpowered compared to the other 3.
I love caotic soo much many thimes but in serbia you have problem with the unpopural tcg, so you dont have ANYWHERE to buy chaotic cards, u can buy yugioh, pokemon, mtg but thats so expensive. That is the problem in my country and i think that wouldnt change. And yeah i think about the start play chaoitc and collect that cards.
I was very much once they come.out a marlliain player using the stat drop kill strategy if it came back I definitely give up my current game in heart beat I still have most of my old card collection
Only really collected the cards as a wasn’t close to game shops to buy packs often and b no one I knew played the game in school and there wasn’t much of a community although few years later o played with a friend against his danians and well my combo with Borth Majar and Barrath Beyond didn’t help much against him assimilating my troops poor H’earring didn’t stand a chance
I think iut of your solutions for back row hate, i think making a more defender oriented vlass of card makes sense that way you have an interesting rock paper scissors of defenders support and offensive beaters without having to remove swift or range as your designated defender can swat away targets for you.
I also think with elemental hate just having resistance to elemental types is a great response instead of removing the element all together
Fluidmorphers + super chilled rain +mugician steal + glacier plains marillian heat cannon
The result? You amass a ton of mugic counters building towards an instant win effect that you can lock your opponent out of using
I would abuse Melody of the meek and Uksum against certain matchups, it was kind of scary
This Video Is Super Inaccurate, Bladez Husk Armor isn't even that strong
ive been playing recoded and mandiblor grave buff decks are broken AF if you dont use backrow hate.
trying to play a deck with no battle gear or mugic
Im so thrilled to hear chaotic is coming back! Im digging up my old cards asap.
I see why xelfe isn't fan baned its because its a once use its till the end of the turn which if you can counter it make it so it can never be used again