Duncan was a beast in 99 and 03, but Manu Ginobili was the best player on the court in Game 7 vs. Detroit in 2005 with the chips on the line. If you actually watched that game, you know what I'm talking about.
i'd rather watch Kobe play but have Duncan on my team any day. he was the perfect franchise player. never failed qualifying his team to play offs, carried the entire team on his back on 2003 to championship and the man is just one miracle shot away from a 6-0 final run. he's so underrated.
I believe if they won in 2013, they wouldn't have had that amazing 2014 run... Losing by such a small margin made them hungry for that W, and they unleashed 😤 2014 one of the best Championship run because of the loss the year prior 🔥 #BeautifulGame 🇫🇷🇺🇲🇦🇷
@@Deathstroke24120 sort of agree with this. Tim would’ve either been 5-0 or 5-1. That ‘14 team played out of their minds and their relative talent was revealed in ‘15, where “Finals MVP” Kawhi wasn’t stepping up and a 38-y.o Tim was beasting on Primes Deandre+Blake....if not for CP3’s (another) miracle shot, who knows though
@@thsu8 You mean the Kobe that led both teams in minutes played that series.... or the guy that averaged 32/5/4/1 in that series..??? You're reaching acting like Kobe wasn't playing and performing at an extremely high level.
I remember you from some years back 😂😂. You used to have me rolling flexing your little muscles in the beginning of your videos 😂😂🤣🤣 (The little muscles part was a joke. Yours far superior to mines as I'm not even in shape, and you'd probably 2 shot me in a real fight. I'm confident I can survive one 🤣🤣😂😂👍🏾)
I think it's almost impossible to compare stats when it comes to Duncan because of his play style especially post 05 when he sacrificed many touches to develop Parker and manu
@@goatjames1675 That’s not true. Kobe sacrificed so many shots to get Shaq scoring in the paint. Kobe also sacrificed touches and he sacrificed many more.
Spurs could have been an all time dynasty. The 0.4 second shot to Fisher in 04; the ginobili foul on Dirk for a 3-point play in the final seconds of game 7 in 06; the Ray Allen shot in 13, even the blowing off the 2-0 lead in the west finals in ‘12. They had 5 titles but left a bunch on the table.
I wish more would make this realization. So many times the things that beat SAS was out of their control or just bad plays or calls late. They were contenders for 19 years with Duncan. No one has had that kind of window, EVER. Not even Lebron
.4 was bs, fisher grabbed it, turned then shot and then they started the shot clock. One of the worst ref carrying jobs was Spurs vs Mavs. Take away the refs and spurs win that series 4-1. Still, Ginobli should not have made that foul.
Facts, once you realize how close the Spurs we're every year just about you quickly realize not only are they the greatest thier the best team post bull's who won against multiple 50-60 win team's, super team's and had the highest winning percentage in sports for 20 year's!.
@@thecensoredmuscle563true, and I still blame pop for not playing his Damm center's that series, every title we won we always had a solid center, the year's we didn't is when he sat them out. So frustrating not to mention the b.s. with kawi. 2018 was the last time I seen my Spurs play.
Didn't make sense at all. Before you believe all this, check this spurs vs lakers 2003 playoffs! ruclips.net/video/1quhy0MVgsg/видео.html. Goat does not get taken over. Duncan might have lost 2002, but 2003, sweet redemption. It wasn't even close!
Do you struggle with MJ vs. Tim Duncan? Kobe vs. Tim is not a hard debate. Tim is one of the most selfless leaders in league history, but Kobe is obviously better.
Well my dudes.. "SKILL" is a very complicated word... does the flashy game of Kobe made him more skilled? I don't think so. Duncan's game and personality didn't allow him to stand out in the crowd, while Kobe is the exact opposite.
@@andrejmanev1850 Kobe is one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history. Footwork, spacing, ball handling, post moves, use of pivot foot, reverse pivot, pump fakes, passing, on-ball defense. What are you talking about?
When talking about playoffs u should bring up the fact that Tim Duncan missed them once in 2000 because of injury u should also bring up the fact tim Duncan never had a season under 50 wins besides the lock out season where there was 50 games also should bring up finals record
It’s just a tough choice either way. He could’ve said a few more things about Kobe too. There is no wrong answer in this one. When you put into perspective that two players in the same conference won a combined 10 rings with 13 Finals appearances, you realize no other Top 10 All Time Players who had to share conferences with that kinda competition from a single opponent. That to me makes both of them even greater. Fun fact. No active player has more rings than Kobe or Duncan. And they were in the same conference !!! They’re both great man I don’t wanna argue about this.
You could also say Kobe edges him in head to head playoff matchups tho. Plus he's had signature performances in his career against him too. But honesty. Playoffs wise they're pretty close. So you're not really wrong with who ever you decide to pick.
@@JerikoThomas I'm still debating how I'll be thanking my community for 100k when it happens, but I'm considering one of the "thank you vids" being some pick up Basketball. Jimmy Highroller, Mike Korzemba and Rusty Buckets have done similar things. Also considering doing my first live stream. I've already got face cams and such on my gaming channel. I'm not posting a ton over there right now because I'm having issues with Streamlabs, but I should be posting more frequently over there soon, and theres certainly a more personal feel over there.
I'm team Duncan. Duncan has it from a teammate perspective, from a coaching standpoint, and like you said Kobe's defensive accolades were overblown for maybe 8 years. If you take 8 years out of 50% of a players over all game - I personally, have a hard time putting them above a guy who maintained his defensive numbers for most of their career and say its a "slight edge" ... just my opinion.
Duncan was great but imo it’s silly to put him over Kobe especially considering Duncan was practically a role player after 2008, that’s half of his career (compared to Kobe who was either a number 1 or 2 option for most of his career.)
@@biguzivertwastaken yeah but that’s because duncan never had a team as bad as the lakers during kobe’s final years. and duncan was a third option at worst until his very final season 💀💀💀
He consistently lost to Kobe tho in the playoffs... From 2000-2010 Kobe is 4-1 against Duncan in the playoffs.... Duncan wasn't even the best player for 3 of his championships. Manu had more win shares in 2005. Parker won FMVP in 2007. and He needed Kawhi, parker, and Manu to carry him in 2014. Duncan had a phenominal supporting cast that he needed for every title.
The fact that Kobe was just as efficient as Duncan kinda shocked me. Especially considering how many shots that guy put up. He’s right the offensive gap between the 2 is a lot greater than the defensive gap.
No, I don't think that's true at all. When you adjust for the centric offensive style of Kobe and Duncans team first system he played in, that gap isn't as wide as Tim's defense over Kobe's. I'm not sure why people believe that. Check out Duncans advanced metrics in defense. I think that gap is far larger than Kobe's offensive edge. Duncan could score effortlessly when he needed to do such.
@@marianosantiniello2213 Yes, Johnny never uses advanced metrics except true shooting % which benefits Kobe. If he brought up PER, win shares, +/- we'd really see the gap between Duncan & Kobe
@@marianosantiniello2213Defensive metrics are honestly HORRIFIC in basketball. You can only use it for a teams overall defence and not a players. However Timmy is clearly the better defender. Kobe was overrated defensively. Phil Jackson said that himself. Whereas timmy has a case to be the best defender Ever. But still Kobes Offence is just a lot better. Not only can he do a lot more things and Run the offence, he can take any type shot. Much better shooter 3pt midrange and FT. Kobes the better playmaker aswell. I always used to have Timmy 1 spot over Kobe but honestly after more research and going back to watch actual tapes I have put Kobe 1spot higher than Timmy. But tbh it's so close idm whos higher. Btw for an individual person, offense is simply more important than defence. For an individual.
@@marianosantiniello2213 Bro Duncan was averaging 13 when Kobe was dropping 28 on his 5th ring. Duncan had 1 season scoring over 23. Kobe averaged 35 and had the greatest scoring season in the history of the league. Stop being delusional.
@@Hazz1405 All that and Kobe still has more defensive 1st team selections. You literally cannot compare a guard and a big defensively. Kobe is arguably the 2nd best defensive guard in NBA history. Duncan is not even a top 4 defensive big. Hakeem, Kareem, Wilt and Russel were better defensively.
Kobe was more exciting and more "Jordanesque" in his style of play. That said, if you had an expansion team and had to surround either player with a bunch of scrubs the Duncan team would be better. Especially if he was taking many more shots. No question.
Ah I don’t know about that mainly because if you need someone to carry a scrub team Kobe is your guy took arguably the worst team of all time to the playoffs averaging 35 5 and 5 with two steals a game don’t forget Timmy d has always had great help but that wasn’t the case for Kobe from 05 to 08 those 3 years were rough
Teams of scrubs tend to do better with a guy that can do everything himself like Kobe instead of a guy like Duncan who needs someone to pass him the ball and isn't as valuable defensively behind a perimeter of scrubs who defend like a sieve. eg. look to AD trying to carry new orleans or any of garnett, love or KAT trying to carry Minnesota.
@@Bama-ou4nk Call me old school but I just think when push comes to shove rebounding and blocking shots and being able to score down low are more valuable if less exciting. Kobe was like Allen Iverson in that he shot...A Lot. His field goal percentage wasn't all that great. And more guys in the league can average 2 steals a game than 2 or 3 blocks.
@Curly Que That's true indeed.If Kobe had let's say,Kyle Korver's role on a team he would average 43 percent from 3 on 6 attempts and that's to say the least.
@@imafunguy6636 Yes, because LeBron is the best athlete in NBA history which leads to easier shots in the paint and the rule changes allowed him to use his strength and athleticism to bully ball opponents. What does that have to do with Kobe's vastly superior skill level in hitting tough shots?
@@thsu8 Lebron is also a capable shooter and although Jordan was playing with hand checking,he could also do easy isolation plays everytime because of the defensive rules of his times.Dont get me wrong,lebron has it easy nowadays to run inside and shoot lay ups,but lets not act like lebron would not average 23 points in jordans era.Also,i think jordan and lebron are equally athletic,but wilt surpasses anyone in human history in terms of pure athleticism
I disagree I think Kobe had the better career. Duncan was better for longer but that was only because of injury. Kobe’s peak was better than Duncan’s peak tho. It’s like lebron and Mj comparison.
@@Sigma4k_ no I think Tim Duncan being one of the greatest defenders of all time while being a consistent 22ppg and could give you 10 rebounds with 2 blocks has had a better career than Kobe.
@@Sigma4k_ Duncan was good for longer. Kobe waa great fo longer. Kobe has thr longer prime but after Duncans prime he still brought value while Kobe was either on the bench or too injured
Kobe from 2008-2010 beat 11 50+ win teams in the playoffs. For his career, in championship runs, he averaged 3.4 50 win teams beaten in the playoffs, second only to Hakeem (3.5) and he won FIVE. He beat 25 50+ win teams in his career. First all time
Something you neglected: Duncan, along with Magic and Bird, have the highest team winning percentage. This isn't due to circumstance; it's intent. There was a time when the Lakers are failing as a franchise and Bryant is demanding a salary greater than Duncan, Parker and Ginobili COMBINED.
duncan wasnt as good as kobe also didnt bring in the same revenue kobe brought. also duncan had the luxury of having no state tax so its alot easier to take less pay.
@@Myblacknadz Duncan wasn't as good as Bryant? Really? You may want to check the performances of both from 2011 to 2016, when both payers retired. Let's see: 2011-2016 Bryant: 325 G, 24.2/5.0/4.7 regular season on .425/.305/.833 shooting Post season: 22 G, 26.7/4.2/3.9 on .441/.287/.827 shooting. The Lakers, with the "better" Bryant, went 208-268, .437 the Lakers won 9 playoff games in those six seasons Duncan: 415 G, 14.1/9.1/2.7 regular season on .498/.138/.738 shooting Post Season: 81 G, 15.5/9.2/2.2 on .499/.000/..734 shooting The Spurs went 353-123, .742 The Spurs won 52 post season games and won a championship in those six seasons. yes. Clearly...Bryant was worth soooo much more than Duncan, Parker and Ginobli. From 2011 through the end on his contract, Bryant cost the Lakers $156.85 million to "lead" them to a sub .500 record and finish with the worst offensive season in NBA history. From 2011 until the end of hos contract, Duncan cost the Spurs $80.55 million. The Spurs won 145 more regular season games and 41 more post season games.
@@Myblacknadz I'm guessing those extra 41 playoff wins brought in a helluva lot more revenue than Bryant was bringing in for LA while sitting at home and driving away free agents.
Tim Duncan's Spurs never missed the playoffs in his 20-year career. Better teammate, knew when it was appropriate to take over, helped foster a culture that made TP and Manu future HOFers. Would Timmy ever quit on his team like Kobe did in game 7 against the Suns in 2006? Not a chance. Duncan's game aged gracefully and he let Kawhi and Tony become the first options over time. Kobe was a chucker until his very last game. C'mon, man.
@@B345T1N355Official check Parkers and Manus career stats and accomplishments. Those are hardly "all stars". Manu only made 2. My man was carrying mediocrity to Glory. Kobe shot his teams out of the playoffa.
Tim Duncan. Changed the culture in San Antonio. 5 titles, 2 regular season mvp, 3 finals mvp. Better defender (15 all defensive teams), made teammates better, was unselfish. Chapionship contender every single year of his career.
Built the whole Spurs franchise, perpetually changed and flipped from almost worst to best, one of the top foundational players ever together with Lebron, carriers ever, and best 1st overall pick together with Lebron.
@@dusk6159 he didn’t flip the team lol Spurs were a playoff team evey year lol the year before Duncan got the Robinson played 6 games lol wth lol not like they was just ass and Duncan came to save the day lol
@@jonatanbarrang8049 Well just because he liked Kobe doesn't mean he picked him, but because if actual reasons, such as midrange scoring and work ethic.
Good video as always, but I disagree with the conclusion: You pointed out at the end that Duncan is probably better for your team as a whole while Kobe is the "best basketball player" (which sounds like he was the most skilled / talented player). I would argue that being the best piece to add to your team is more important. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Also Duncan's offensive impact is underrated. If needed he could be a scoring machine for his team, but he simply did what was right for them. He never cared about stats, and worth keeping in mind that the spurs were always one of the team with the slowest pace in the league. So it could be argued that stats need to be adjusted to reflect that. With as many possession as Kobe, it would be a slightly closer comparison for points. I still give the edge to Kobe obviously on offense because of how amazing he was, but I don't think the gap is as big as you said. Finally Duncan wins slightly in terms of accolades for me: One more MVP, one more Finals MVP, 3 more all-defensive selection. Kobe has more all-star appearances but that mostly shows popularity (proven by the 15 All-NBA selections from both and Kobe's selection in 2014 when he only played 6 games!)
@@terylbrandonteodosio3371 the infamous US bronze team lead by tim duncan. Had to assemble the redeem team and recruit kobe to bring back glory to US...I have to say, tim duncan is overrated...
Duncan over Kobe simple because every year in the league his team was a contender. Not because of anything other than the fact Duncan was on the roster.. The 2003 run is top 5 all time!
@@kingRukus39nobody ever wins by themselves, the only time someone had a chance of winning the finals with nobody was 2018 lebron and he ended up getting swept
Lmao. No way this guy just said the only difference between the Spurs and Lakers was that Duncan was on the roster. The way nba fans try to shamelessly rewrite history is sick. Are we just gonna act like Duncan wasn’t surrounded by HOF players his entire career? Admiral, Ginoibil, Parker, Kawhi and had some of the most elite role players ever? Diaw, Patty Mills, Green, Bruce Bowen, Belinni and many more that I’m forgetting. Those spurs teams had a record of over 60% when Duncan was out. That’s how good those teams were. Duncan was the more important obviously but to say the spurs were 100% that way cause of him is just objectively false. For reference the Lakers win percentage dropped to 40% when Kobe was off. And post Shaq, pre pau, his team was objectively horrible. It was him, Smush Parker and Kwane Brown in a stacked west. Duncan has had the luxury of having the best front office in league history AND a top 3 coach, who always had the right pieces to contend on any given year. NO player can single-handedly make a team dynasty, not even Lebron could do that, so to try and act like Duncan was the only reason why the Spurs were successful is crazy and shows that you are a casual who doesn’t have a clue.
My FAVORITE player is Duncan. It’s almost apples and oranges, but I appreciate Duncan’s approach to the game. Kobe: flash Duncan: grind Duncan:catalyst Kobe:shot creator Kobe: who your organization wants Duncan: who your organization needs. Kobe: style Duncan:substance Kobe was the leader of some REALLY bad teams. The Spurs with Duncan was -never- a losing team. The Spurs without Duncan almost immediately fell apart.
@@Peakfreud Yup. If not for Duncan, the Lakers likely win titles in 1999 and 2003. If not for Kobe, the Spurs likely win titles in 2001 and 2004. Think about that. The Spurs prevented the Lakers from likely winning 5 straight titles, and the Lakers prevented the Spurs from likely winning 6 titles in 9 years.
Duncan was more selfless and team orientated than Kobe which meant his team was more consistent and could evolve over the years whereas the low years for the Lakers in Kobe's last few seasons was the cost of having Kobe
Such a fantastic video, this is really a 1A and 1A.5 situation. But they only way i can make the choice is the fact the Lakers with Kobe have beaten the Spurs with Duncan 4-2 in playoff matchups. And kobe was unstoppable in every playoff series especially in 2001 and 2008 series.
Tim Duncan is 2-1 against LeBron in the finals and averaged around 18 PPG and 11 RPG in those games. With the logic you just mentioned, then are you saying Duncan > LeBron
@@sankethreddy3359 there’s different factors. If both faced off in their prime and Duncan won 3 that’s a different story. But 2014 Duncan wasn’t the best player on the team. And 2007 lebron at 22 bought the bum ass Cavs to the finals. Kobe and Duncan were in their prime in the 2000’s and had elite coaching and good to great teammates. In this case I think it makes more sense to compare their match ups.
Duncan also didn't have 3 extended seasons to inflate career totals at the expense of young talents growths, nor have ridiculous retirement parade for an entire season, nor retire two numbers
Kobe didn't have one of the greatest head coaches, coaching staffs, and front offices in the league for his ENTIRE CAREER either, Duncan did. TD also had Parker and Ginobili for the bulk of his career as a solid core around which to build contending teams. The last 3 years of Kobe's career actually hurt his career averages. He was also benched as a rookie and played through 2 lockouts during his prime years. Kobe missed A LOT of games in his prime. Ridiculous retirement parade? lol kid are you butthurt? don't be a fucking hater.
Duncan never missed a playoffs. You had no problem mentioning 01 and 02 match ups but failed to mention 99 and 03 match ups in which Duncan was the best player in both series.
I think the debate with these two was settled when they met in the 08 playoffs. Both in their prime with similar strength supporting casts. Tony and Manu were both in their primes, and the squad was rounded out by a top perimeter defender in Bruce Bowen. Kobe had prime Gasol and Odom as stars on his team. Game 1 tells you all you need to know really: Spurs go up big, 16 points or so and Kobe just led the charge to reel the game back in with unstoppable scoring in the 2nd half. For all of Tim's defensive prowess, it wasn't enough in this matchup. Kobe dominated the Spurs.
1 series vs a DPOY who was severely underweight vs Shaq. He didn't try to make a case for Kobe. Everybody know that the real Finals were against the Western teams & not the EC. That's where we get the East path is easier than the West we say today.
@@delconagher12 everyone will be underweight vs. Shaq. You can say the real final for 2000 and 2002 is WCF because it went 7 games (and shaq had bigger influence than Kobe). But in 2001, Lakers swept the west, but lost one game to 76ers.
I’ll be honest I normally agree but Duncan is my favorite player. You failed to mention Duncan never missed the playoffs. You failed to mention Duncan never had a super star teammate (kawhi became the superstar the year Duncan retired) I think bias got in the way of this video. I also love kobe, but you missed some very important things. You can say when comparing greats you have to factor in the playoffs and fail to mention one guy pushed his team to the playoffs every year and one guy missed the playoffs a couple times (even before injury). You can’t say Duncan just edged kobe in defense when Duncan has a case for greatest defensive player ever. I would never question your basketball knowledge because I know your smart. Just saying your missing some things. Also because Duncan was in the playoffs so much you see his name in the top 5 of mostly everything. Kobe wins offense, Duncan wins defense, Duncan wins playoffs , I don’t believe in accolades because as we seen they aren’t always fair. Kobe deserves more than 1 mvp , and Kobe doesn’t deserve some of his all star selections.
@@jonnyarnett Peak Bird was unquestionably better than Magic. In their first 9 seasons before injuries started to derail Bird, he finished ahead of Magic in the MVP voting 8 out of 9 times, including winning three MVPs and finishing second four times. He also won ROY over Magic.
Ya gotta really give it up to Johnny mayn. He's an admitted Laker fan but still holds integrity when looking at the game as a whole.. Kudos to this man FRFR
Duncan was a part of a system that didn't highlight himself. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up if Pop played him like Phil did Kobe. He was pure TEAM ball and TEAM wins. The Wake Forest career wasn't too shabby either.
This is a surprisingly close comparison. I had no idea Kobe made that many All Defense teams; I thought it was common knowledge that he wasn't a very good defender in his later years. Or rather, I should say that he picked his spots on defense. He could still shut guys down, but it was clear he was saving himself for the other end of the court.
Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan are often compared in terms of their legendary NBA careers, with both players having won 5 championships. Kobe was known for his flashy style of play, while Duncan was recognized for his consistent and steady performance. It's worth noting that big men in the NBA, like Duncan, often don't receive as much credit as the smaller and more flamboyant players. This is a pattern also observed with greats like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan. Watching these legends play is a treat for basketball fans, and each of them has left an indelible mark on the sport.
Wow this is the first one where I seen someone put Kobe over Duncan. At least when people do this comparison their surprised by how close it is. I think it’s a closer comparison between them then Bird and Magic.
I kept requesting it. IDK from this guys channel or others. I'm sick of all the TD>Kobe. Kobe post achilles really hurt his reputation. But Kobe>TD all day everyday.
@@cassiusgrey2698 You do know that kobe had more accolades, more records, and better stats than duncan , despite having less help, having suffered more injuires and facing better competition (especially in the finals) . add that to the fact that on head to head matchups in the playoffs , kobe's got the better record. but sure, TD is better.
@@davidsanotonakap729 Bird was a better player (although Magic was GREAT), Magic had a better overall career (although Bird's career was GREAT). I was there, and to me the reason Magic won 2 more rings than Larry was that: 1. He had a better team and a better coach. 2. The West was FAR weaker than the East back then, so the Lakers were always favored to get to the Finals. From 1980 to 1990, 4 Teams from the East were battling for the title, and eventually won a title (76ers, Celtics, Pistons, and Bulls). They all had to play against each other for a chance to even make the Finals. LA had 1 team that gave them trouble, Houston, and that eeam quickly fell off once those guys fell to drugs and Sampson got hurt.
Wild that Tim never got DPOY. I watched his entire career, from Wake Forest to retirement. Aptly named “The Big Fundamental” by Shaq, Duncan never seemed to force the game, but ultimately played alongside some amazing playmakers like Parker and Ginobli and one of the teams to consistently punish opponents with the inside-outside game by having snipers on the 3pt line. Kobe’s always going to be my guy, who I also watched from ‘96 on. I used to shout at my tv when he was younger and he was Mr Greenlight Gunner, and he would be having an off-game. As he aged like the fine wine, his ability to hit shot after shot was jaw dropping - poor Ruben Patterson 😂 Just glad I’ve gotten the chance to see both legends blaze their own individual trail to scale to the heights of greatness they both achieved! Love your videos ❤
I go with Duncan. One reason is comprehensive stats like PER generally rate Duncan higher than Kobe. This is mainly because Duncan's defensive impact is much bigger than Kobe's. In general, big mans' defensive impact is not comparable to guards'. The other, I put Duncan over Kobe in terms of accolades. Because, in my opinion, Kobe's MVP should have been given to CP3.
A Kobe fan which has a fair, unbiased opinion on his strengths and weaknesses? Very uncommon to come by! Great video as ever. Been watching them battle it out since 98' and it's crazy to think all the years I've been watching the NBA, combined they hold a decade worth of championships! Both dominated the sport like few before them and after. Hopefully the Spurs will get back to their winning ways, sooner rather than later.
Kobe and Duncan are both people who suffer from their era. Kobe’s dominance is underrated while Timmy’s leadership is underrated. Both of them should be in the GOAT debate.
You got to remember Phil love to coach through the media. He was simply coaching Kobe up. The defense scheme was to collapse the defense into the bigs so Kobe would use his help a lot more when Gasol and Bynum were on the court. Kobe was checking the 1-3 on defense because Derek Fisher couldn’t guard his man. So Kobe would routinely guard Elite point guards. Even Jordan took mention during Kobe’s last great season talking about watching him guard elite point guards at 34 was crazy
Tim duncan is the goat of his position and a top 10 player i put him above kobe, 1000 wins(literally) 70% win rate , winning record against every team, one rebound away of 6 for 6 in finals (assuming they would win in 14 even after winning in 13) willing to take paycuts to bring and retain talent, leadership. Just amazing
This one is very close, but I would take Duncan over Kobe. I think of it as "Who would I like more on my team" and Duncan is the undeniable winner there. Kobe, for as amazing a player as he is, was not a good team player. He wasn't a good leader and wasn't able to cultivate half as good a team culture that TD was. If we're talking pure stats, then I agree with what you said that Kobe has the slight advantage. But there's more to basketball then just the stats. If I had to take a player for a single series, I would most likely pick Kobe. But if I had to pick a player for a franchise, then I would pick TD every time.
What a joke with your bullshit standards. Ask any of Kobe's teammate & tell him that shit & they'll laugh at you. Even Smush finally admitted that he should have listened to what Kobe was saying. Fucking missing open layups & dunks, will get even TD cursing at his teammates.
Kobe was a great team player. But as a guard, he needs to have more of a team around him than Duncan did. That's just the way basketball worked back then. Picking either isn't a wrong choice for those of us who were there to see it.
@@delconagher12 when are people gonna learn that leadership isn't about coddling. If grown men want yo be coddled than stay home with mommy. They don't seem to understand.
Tim & Kobe are both superstar players. ! 5 NBA Titles each These two gentlemen really made every player , better . Really an joy to watch these two play basketball !
But it doesn't mean anything because Kobe was only one time MVP, but he had many times better statistics than players who won MVP. Kobe had better statistics than tim Duncan in 2003, in 2006 he had better statistics than both Steve Nash and Shaq and it was the best season of his career, in 2007 also he was most impactful player in both ways on the court, and he won MVP only in 2008, so Kobe should have minimum 3 MVPs in his careerzbut he spend his prime with horrible supporting cast.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 More Impactful and Better Statistics are 2 completely Different Things Duncan for sure was more Impactful than Kobe in 03 Dirk was more Impactful than Kobe in 06 And LeBron was more impactful than Kobe in 07
@@OK-yy6qz Dirk won MVP in 2007, and yeah, Kobe was definitely the best player that year, the best, the most impactful and great in every aspect, also in 2006 it was criminal that Steve Nash won MVP, Kobe averaged 35,5 points, 6 assists and 6 rebounds on 45% shooting while was in first team all defense and nobody other was first team all defense averagins 35 points, that year he had 81 points, 62 in three quarters and I don't know what he could do more than that, man was just on another level in 2006 and even in 2007.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 i messed up the Years Dirk Definitely Deserved it in 07 he had 25 and 9 on 50/40/90 but more importantly led a Pretty Mediocre Team to 67 Wins In 06 Kobe did Deserve it because he had a Massive Carry Job to a bad team but with that Logic he didn't Deserve it in 08 because LeBron did the Same in 08 with Better Stats Than Kobe
My favorite player and favorite PF of all time. Kobe was the greatest of his era Tim Duncan was arguably the greatest big man of his era, yes even greater than Shaq. I know that seems controversial, Kobe and Duncan on the same team would have been better than Kobe and Shaq. In my opinion.
Kobe and Garnett would be the best possible duo in the early 2000's. Mutual respect and perfect chemistry. The two most competitive guys in the league, with the selfless Garnett taking a back seat. 7 rings easy.
Both had Hall of Fame coaches. Kobe had Shaq, Glen Rice, Gary Payton, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Pau Gasol as help. Duncan, had Tony Parker, Ginobli, Finley, Stephen Jackson and an older David Robinson, and young Kawhi at the end of his career. In terms of talent I think Kobe had more help, Duncan had the better system. I'm saying Duncan was greater.
It's like the Chamberlain vs. Russell debate. Kobe may have a lot of better stats, and may be a better individual player, but basketball is not an individual sport. Duncan and Bill Russell were both masters of defense, and masters of the team game. Both showed that defense may not lead to the most remarkable stats, but it leads to championships.
Duncan was fortunate enough to play in a system where the weight was evenly distributed. Kobe and his Lakers were often very top heavy with Kobe carrying the bulk of the weight. Kobe was more vital to the Lakers success than Duncan was to the Spurs'. This is apparent through the fact that Duncan averaged far less minutes per game, and often sat out entire games, and the Spurs would still win a ton of games. Timmy and Pop practically invented load management. The Lakers never had the luxury of load managing Kobe. Kobe is a greater talent overall. Also, Kobe vs Duncan in playoff series went 4-2 in favor of Kobe. Very big strike against Tim when comparing the 2.
Comparing their stats and accolades in the Decade 2000-2009: Tim Duncan Championships: 3 MVP:2 FMVP:2 All star:10x All NBA Selections:10x All NBA Defensive:10x Playoffs Appearance:10x Pts: 16,110 Point avg: 21.4 REB avg: 11.7 AST avg: 3.2 BLK avg: 2.3 STL avg: 0.8 Kobe Bryant Championships: 4 MVP:1 FMVP:1 All star:10x All NBA Selections:10x All NBA Defensive:9x Playoffs Appearance:9x Pts Total: 21,550 Point avg: 28.0 REB avg: 5.8 AST avg: 5.3 BLK avg: 0.6 STL avg: 1.6 These are the reason why the 2000-2009 decade is shared with Timmy and Kobe. Both have competitive accolades and stats. Timmy has more MVPs, FMVPs, All Defensives, Playoffs Appearances, Rebounds, Blocks Kobe has more Championships, Points, Assists, Steals, Scoring Champs
The difference between this two is in 2 points: 1. when Kobe was working on stats in mid-00 TD was deep in the playoffs. 2. When Kobe was scoring 60 in his last game of the career (regular season not playoff), TD was deep in the playoff. TD played 48 playoff series vs. 43 Kobe has (with more seasons played). Don't forget that Spurs were 2 shots away from 2 more finals and 1 shot away from 1 more title.
TD was fucking caried from parker and leonard from 2007 until 2014 ...what fdo u mean by "He was deep in the playoffs"...I would rather to score 60 f-points in my last game than to be a bench player in a playoff team
@@clydetheglidetop5sgtop10du7 you'd have a point if Kobe wasn't the best player on the court during their matchups. He dominated the spurs individually
Just looking at the stats you can still easily give it to Duncan. Advanced stats are a much better look at their overall games than just the counting numbers, and Duncan had a much better PER, WS/48, Box Plus/Minus and VORP than Kobe in both the regular season and playoffs. Duncan also had the same career Offensive Rating as Kobe of 110 but a vastly better defensive rating of 96 vs Kobe's 105. And Kobe is a super overrated defender. He had specific moments where he could look impressive, but as an overall team defender he was not great. His Defensive Rating was at or below league average for basically his entire career. And his Box Plus/Minus on defense is -0.1 for his career, he had a negative rating 10 seasons, and only had a rating above +1.0 once. While Duncan averaged +5.6, was never worse than +3.0, and was better than +7.0 five times. And with roughly the same number of career games, Duncan had 106 defensive Win Shares vs Kobe's 50. I'd give the edge to Kobe on offense, but Duncan blows Kobe away on the defensive end.
If we being real Duncan’s only close to Kobe on paper as far as their resume and accomplishments. But there’s levels to this and Kobe’s just on a different level when it comes to ability/skill.
Only Kobe fans are obsessed with this idea of skill. So what Kobe could shoot a 20 foot fadeaway whilst being double teamed better? Who is more skilled to you; Dirk or Shaq?
@@hardwoodthought1213 They’re not competing in a triathlon or anything 😂.That’s what basketball is about a bucket, skill. To answer ur question obviously Dirk is more skilled than Shaq, but Shaq is literally the most physically dominant player in NBA history and simply accomplished more than Dirk… I brought up skill between Kobe and Duncan because they’re accomplishments are pretty close across the board, but there’s a significant gap between Kobe’s offensive skill and Duncan’s. That’s why Kobe>Duncan
@@isaacsmith3901 How is 1 more MVP, 1 more FMVP, 4 more All-Defensive teams, more MVP votes close? Kobe is obviously more skilled than Duncan, but it doesn’t make him better. Because he wasn’t
@@hardwoodthought1213 Everybody knows not to put too much stock into MVPs. Players get robbed of that almost every year. MJ only got 5 and he clearly was the best player in the league more than 5 times. Kobe got robbed of at least 3 MVP awards. Also Kobe has more scoring titles and All Star selections so it’s essentially the same difference. That’s why I said their close when it comes to accomplishments. Duncan has a few more of some things and Kobe has a few more of some other things👌. No disrespect to Duncan but he wasn’t better than Kobe. Kobe at his peak was the best offensive player and one of the best defensive players in the NBA. Duncan can’t say that. When u compare how they played defensively Duncan was a lil better but it’s closer. Duncan only has 3 more All Defensive selections but Kobe made more 1st team All defense selections-9 (tied for most all time). Offensively Kobe is clearly better and it’s not even close. Duncan’s only avg more than 25PPG 1X in the regular season and 1X in the playoffs for his career. Kobe did 12X in the regular season and 10X in the Playoffs for his career. Also like the vid showed, they have almost the identical TS% while Kobe shoots almost 50% more than Duncan. Kobe is better than Duncan like Buddy said in the vid, because of the wide gap that exists between the two offensively compared to defensively.
You had me until the last category. There is no way you can objectively say Kobe was better from an accolades standpoint. Duncan had more MVP's, FInals MVP's, and more All Defensive team selections while splitting all NBA selections.
thats false. During kobe's prime years(05'-07'), kobe never led his team to any playoffs or let alone come close to winning one. He needed a big man to get to the finals. Tell me Im wrong. Kobe didnt carry his team also because he was a ball hog and rather take some dumbass midrange contested clutch shot than pass it to a wide open teammate.
There is no slight edge in defense. Advance stats show Duncan career rating was 96, while kobes was 105. Duncan is considered top 3 in defense all time while Kobe is not considered top 20. The diff between the 2 is more then a slight edge to Duncan. Honestly their not in the same league when it comes to defense.
Seeing as Kobe's favorite opponent was the Spurs whereas the Spurs least favorite opponent was Kobe, that says enough IMO. Also that Kobe is the only player in the 20 year play-off and league timespan of the Spurs who had more wins then losses vs them. The only player, not team, player. Oh and Timmy was a monster and HIGLY UNDERRATED, since he clearly is a top 10 player but rarely is put in the top 10.
@@Herosennin After thinking it over, I decided to put him at 7th. I'd understand 8th. 1. Jordan 2. Lebron 3. Wilt 4. Kareem 5. Bird 6. Kobe 7. Duncan 8. Magic 9. Shaq 10. Bill Russell This top 10 list is open to adjustments. For example, my 5th-8th are all extremely close, so I could be convinced to switch up the order there. I believe I included the right players. though I'm not to sure about Hakeem at 10.
@@BallerBrain Basically like mine lol. Jordan Wilt Kobe, Lebron, Kareem IMO is a tossup Bird, Magic Duncan Olajuwon Shaq Lebron could end up 2nd and I never understood how people put Shaq over Timmy. I also think Olajuwon was better.
Kobe also had that “it” factor. He was exciting to watch, which sells tickets. I’m starting my franchise with Bean. Like you said they accomplished very similar accolades. But to me the Mambas game was more exciting!
Great point. There is a financial benefit to having Bean and his "it" factor. Kobe was able to sell out the Stables Center when there are a million other things to do in Los Angeles.
@@hateorlovebothstartswithin9145 nah Kobe was well respected by his teammates and was a great leader when he took over the Lakers. He just didn't respect bums or players that didn't try or work on their games.
Actually not close but I agree. Kobe was just better individual player period. Duncan played with what 3 other future HOF ? GTFO... Simps these days 🤦 I'm over this generation 🖕🖕🖕🖕 Weakest Gen all time!!! When bron tires you'll see No one give a shit & will just move to the next chosen Zion. Which I dub has potential Jordan Kobe esqu level. You bron delusional Fkss
To me there's no stretch of Kobe's career that equals 99-03 Tim Duncan as far as overall impact. He would drop 30pt, 15+reb type games regularly in the post season with 4-5 blks and a handful of assists to go with it. He was unstoppable in the post and had an excellent face-up game as well, he could kill you on the boards, and was arguable the best defensive big in the league especially his help defense. And contrary to revisionist history those early 2000s Spurs team were not uber talented by any stretch of the imagination. Only one allstar teammate during that run in Robinson and he was washed after the 99 championship, then you had players like Danny Ferry, Speedy Claxton, Antonio Daniels and Malik Rose starting games and playing big minutes, and the Spurs were still winning 58-60 games and making deep playoff runs every year.
This doesn't factor in help. Tim duncan won his titles with a very old david robinson and Tony parker who didn't make the all star team a lot of years. Kobe got shaq, who some have as the greatest center ever. And dont say duncan had coach pop Kobe had phil.
Kobe had the better teammates but Duncan had better chemistry with his teammates and did better as a team. Kobe had a really bad beef with some of his teammates that it affected their team's performance like not passing the ball to one another when it really matters the most. It's really close but Duncan had a slightly better help thanks to their team's chemistry. As far as I'm aware of, Tim and Spurs have Pop for the majority of their career while Kobe and the Lakers have another main coach other than Phil somewhere throughout their career.
@@seanflaherty1225 First of all, it's not only Kobe's fault although he is responsible for a lot of the beefs. Shaq, Meta World Peace(Artest), and even Dwight Howard are also at fault(although I applaud Howard for changing for the better this time). Second of all, I am not taking anything from Tim when I said he had a little more help for having better chemistry with his team. I never said Kobe was the better player or vice versa. I am only disagreeing with what you said that Kobe had greater help.
TD had more help bruh! WTF you talking about? Lakers were top heavy only 2 player HOF while the Spurs have a starting 5 HOF. Kobe & Shaq had basically role players beside them while TD had 5 HOF or more if you really count it. Even Bruce Bowen was great.
Huge Spurs fan but I agree with your breakdown. has anyone ever had a quad double in finals history? Duncan was 1 digit short I remember watching the game live. That was the single most dominating performance by a player I've ever witnessed.
If one were to give a statistical value to each accolade, Tim Duncan would be on Top. Also, individual Awards and Honours should be Valued differently according to heirarchy. I believe it was incorrect to leave out the Rebounds and Assists. Both are key aspects to their abilities, one should simply compare the game impact, season dominance and All-time standing of both Duncan's Rebounding vs Kobe's assists.
There is bias here. Duncan and Kobe are not even in the same league when it comes to defense. Duncan is top 3 all time super elite defense, Kobe is not top 25 all time in defense. Look at advanced stats show a gap in defensive ability. Also if you watch Thinking basketballs video on Kobe, he breaks down the facts and shows Kobes D peaked in 2000 and fell of around 07/ 08. Kobe all team defense is a bit sus as you say because in that time peroid Tony Allen was much better defender than Kobe was but he didnt get the credit. In reality as Phil said Kobe got more selections then he should have for all nba defensive teams. Lets get real he shouldnt have as many as Gary Payton or MJ both whom were much better at D. I dont care who u think is better but i do think u manipulated argument to make it seem as Kobe was close with Duncan in Defense which he is not.
Honestly I'll give the nod to Duncan, and I'm a huge Laker fan. Loved my Shaq and Kobe era. The way I see it is Duncan did something bigger than anything Shaq and Kobe ever did together. He came to a team that never won a championship, and turned them into a consistent winner. Learned a lot from veteran David Robinson, then continued to win after the Admiral exited into retirement. Shaq and Kobe's impact is great yes, but the Lakers organization were already had that established reputation thanks to Magic Johnsons and Kareem's era, as well as Jerry West and co before them.
Kobe was the better player but I pick Duncan for his humbleness and leadership. Average less mins on purpose and never missed the playoffs. No wrong answers like you said but I’m picking Duncan
Also Duncan was one shot away from having 6 championships and one cp3 floater away from advancing to go for another title. Also should’ve one a DOPY so another reason I choose Duncan. If you pick Kobe your not wrong either. I also have a personal preference for quite guys like d rose, kawhi, and kareem
Kobe or Duncan, who’s the greatest of their era?
Kobe
I got Kobe
Kobe
Duncan imo..
By the accolades, Timmy, and he got kinda better career, but better player was Kobe and he was better in H2H and in H2H playoffs, i got Kobe
Duncan's first few championships are quite possibly the most underrated in nba history.
Duncan was a beast in 99 and 03, but Manu Ginobili was the best player on the court in Game 7 vs. Detroit in 2005 with the chips on the line. If you actually watched that game, you know what I'm talking about.
@@thsu8 I'm not arguing that, I thought I said first two. I just meant his first two.
@@thsu8 Duncan was still the best player overall
@@leroyrodgers6089 99 title barely count , lockout season , the League was a mess and the best player in the world MJ was retired..
@@MinoSeven still counts
i'd rather watch Kobe play but have Duncan on my team any day. he was the perfect franchise player. never failed qualifying his team to play offs, carried the entire team on his back on 2003 to championship and the man is just one miracle shot away from a 6-0 final run. he's so underrated.
I believe if they won in 2013, they wouldn't have had that amazing 2014 run...
Losing by such a small margin made them hungry for that W, and they unleashed 😤
2014 one of the best Championship run because of the loss the year prior 🔥
#BeautifulGame 🇫🇷🇺🇲🇦🇷
@@Deathstroke24120 sort of agree with this. Tim would’ve either been 5-0 or 5-1. That ‘14 team played out of their minds and their relative talent was revealed in ‘15, where “Finals MVP” Kawhi wasn’t stepping up and a 38-y.o Tim was beasting on Primes Deandre+Blake....if not for CP3’s (another) miracle shot, who knows though
That year it's not Duncan's team common!!! it's a collective team ob manu, parker and khawi open your eyes duncan has no significant contribution then
Tim never had to carry a load like kobe
It’s cuz your soft
Duncan’s 03 playoff run is one of the best of all time
You know Kobe had an injured knee in the 03 playoffs which required surgery, right?
@@thsu8 OK and?
@@thsu8 Dirk too
@Yuvi A he was robbed of a damn quad dub in the finals while singlehandedly carrying the spurs to a chip. Its a bit underrated in my opinion
@@thsu8 You mean the Kobe that led both teams in minutes played that series.... or the guy that averaged 32/5/4/1 in that series..??? You're reaching acting like Kobe wasn't playing and performing at an extremely high level.
KEEP GOING BRO 100K is coming....
Thanks bro! Can't wait to join you in the 100k club! :)
@@jonnyarnett You deserve it, I'm just trying to hit 2k tho.
@@TheFastBreakNBA2 Keep it up! Added myself to your sub count :)
@@jonnyarnett i agree u make unbiased, quality content. Thanks for providing your videos to the platform!
I remember you from some years back 😂😂. You used to have me rolling flexing your little muscles in the beginning of your videos 😂😂🤣🤣
(The little muscles part was a joke. Yours far superior to mines as I'm not even in shape, and you'd probably 2 shot me in a real fight. I'm confident I can survive one 🤣🤣😂😂👍🏾)
I think it's almost impossible to compare stats when it comes to Duncan because of his play style especially post 05 when he sacrificed many touches to develop Parker and manu
Which is Work well for em,they won a couple more chips cause of that
Same can go for Kobe when he played with Shaq and Gasol
@howtobecomeachad1456 yeah no
Kobe was always getting his touches with gasol
@@goatjames1675 That’s not true. Kobe sacrificed so many shots to get Shaq scoring in the paint. Kobe also sacrificed touches and he sacrificed many more.
@@biguzivertwastaken you miss read I said gasol
He was never the 2nd option
Spurs could have been an all time dynasty. The 0.4 second shot to Fisher in 04; the ginobili foul on Dirk for a 3-point play in the final seconds of game 7 in 06; the Ray Allen shot in 13, even the blowing off the 2-0 lead in the west finals in ‘12. They had 5 titles but left a bunch on the table.
I wish more would make this realization. So many times the things that beat SAS was out of their control or just bad plays or calls late. They were contenders for 19 years with Duncan. No one has had that kind of window, EVER. Not even Lebron
.4 was bs, fisher grabbed it, turned then shot and then they started the shot clock.
One of the worst ref carrying jobs was Spurs vs Mavs. Take away the refs and spurs win that series 4-1. Still, Ginobli should not have made that foul.
Facts, once you realize how close the Spurs we're every year just about you quickly realize not only are they the greatest thier the best team post bull's who won against multiple 50-60 win team's, super team's and had the highest winning percentage in sports for 20 year's!.
@@thecensoredmuscle563true, and I still blame pop for not playing his Damm center's that series, every title we won we always had a solid center, the year's we didn't is when he sat them out. So frustrating not to mention the b.s. with kawi. 2018 was the last time I seen my Spurs play.
What about the dirty play by Horry against the suns in 2007? If you want to start the "if" argument then you shouldn't cherry pick
Finally a person who is mutual and talking sense i love this page and your content 🔥
Exactly. Jonny is the most analytical when it comes to basketball that I've seen yet.
The only questionable one for me was the Shaq vs Hakeem video.
@@grantberdell4872 have you seen Thinking Basketball. So much better
This vid was misleading if anything. Just desperate attempt.
Didn't make sense at all.
Before you believe all this, check this spurs vs lakers 2003 playoffs! ruclips.net/video/1quhy0MVgsg/видео.html. Goat does not get taken over. Duncan might have lost 2002, but 2003, sweet redemption. It wasn't even close!
My brain be hurting for the last 10 minutes trying to decide between these 2... I mean you can go either way and still make the right choice. 🙄
Do you struggle with MJ vs. Tim Duncan? Kobe vs. Tim is not a hard debate. Tim is one of the most selfless leaders in league history, but Kobe is obviously better.
Kobe is the better player if ur talking about skills and talent and duncan just had a better career
Its kobe clearly
Well my dudes.. "SKILL" is a very complicated word... does the flashy game of Kobe made him more skilled? I don't think so. Duncan's game and personality didn't allow him to stand out in the crowd, while Kobe is the exact opposite.
@@andrejmanev1850 Kobe is one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history. Footwork, spacing, ball handling, post moves, use of pivot foot, reverse pivot, pump fakes, passing, on-ball defense. What are you talking about?
When talking about playoffs u should bring up the fact that Tim Duncan missed them once in 2000 because of injury u should also bring up the fact tim Duncan never had a season under 50 wins besides the lock out season where there was 50 games also should bring up finals record
It’s just a tough choice either way. He could’ve said a few more things about Kobe too. There is no wrong answer in this one. When you put into perspective that two players in the same conference won a combined 10 rings with 13 Finals appearances, you realize no other Top 10 All Time Players who had to share conferences with that kinda competition from a single opponent. That to me makes both of them even greater.
Fun fact. No active player has more rings than Kobe or Duncan. And they were in the same conference !!! They’re both great man I don’t wanna argue about this.
They didnt miss the playoffs they just got destroyed by the suns in the first round
You could also say Kobe edges him in head to head playoff matchups tho. Plus he's had signature performances in his career against him too. But honesty. Playoffs wise they're pretty close. So you're not really wrong with who ever you decide to pick.
@@Levi-lr4vi if Duncan played with shaq in the early 2000s I’m pretty sure Kobe playoff record would be less against Duncan too
@@lionstigersbearsohmyanimal6741 put duncan with the lakers with smush parker, kwame brown ,chris mihm and tell mehow far will they go
The answer is Johnny Arnett the greatest of all time
Lol. Idk about all that, but seriously thanks supporting me and my channel, David :) Means more than you know.
@@jonnyarnett r we ever getting an irl video?
@@JerikoThomas I'm still debating how I'll be thanking my community for 100k when it happens, but I'm considering one of the "thank you vids" being some pick up Basketball. Jimmy Highroller, Mike Korzemba and Rusty Buckets have done similar things. Also considering doing my first live stream. I've already got face cams and such on my gaming channel. I'm not posting a ton over there right now because I'm having issues with Streamlabs, but I should be posting more frequently over there soon, and theres certainly a more personal feel over there.
@@jonnyarnett I’m subscribed and watch there on the gaming channel. U and AM Hoops should collab on a basketball 1v1
The difference is Kobe is a good player and he carried himself very well, but Duncan carried the whole team.
I'm team Duncan. Duncan has it from a teammate perspective, from a coaching standpoint, and like you said Kobe's defensive accolades were overblown for maybe 8 years. If you take 8 years out of 50% of a players over all game - I personally, have a hard time putting them above a guy who maintained his defensive numbers for most of their career and say its a "slight edge" ... just my opinion.
Duncan was great but imo it’s silly to put him over Kobe especially considering Duncan was practically a role player after 2008, that’s half of his career (compared to Kobe who was either a number 1 or 2 option for most of his career.)
@@biguzivertwastaken yeah but that’s because duncan never had a team as bad as the lakers during kobe’s final years. and duncan was a third option at worst until his very final season 💀💀💀
@@biguzivertwastakensaying Duncan is a role player is a crime. His whole offense was based around him
He consistently lost to Kobe tho in the playoffs... From 2000-2010 Kobe is 4-1 against Duncan in the playoffs....
Duncan wasn't even the best player for 3 of his championships.
Manu had more win shares in 2005. Parker won FMVP in 2007. and He needed Kawhi, parker, and Manu to carry him in 2014. Duncan had a phenominal supporting cast that he needed for every title.
The fact that Kobe was just as efficient as Duncan kinda shocked me. Especially considering how many shots that guy put up. He’s right the offensive gap between the 2 is a lot greater than the defensive gap.
No, I don't think that's true at all. When you adjust for the centric offensive style of Kobe and Duncans team first system he played in, that gap isn't as wide as Tim's defense over Kobe's. I'm not sure why people believe that. Check out Duncans advanced metrics in defense. I think that gap is far larger than Kobe's offensive edge. Duncan could score effortlessly when he needed to do such.
@@marianosantiniello2213 Yes, Johnny never uses advanced metrics except true shooting % which benefits Kobe. If he brought up PER, win shares, +/- we'd really see the gap between Duncan & Kobe
@@marianosantiniello2213Defensive metrics are honestly HORRIFIC in basketball. You can only use it for a teams overall defence and not a players. However Timmy is clearly the better defender. Kobe was overrated defensively. Phil Jackson said that himself. Whereas timmy has a case to be the best defender Ever. But still Kobes Offence is just a lot better. Not only can he do a lot more things and Run the offence, he can take any type shot. Much better shooter 3pt midrange and FT. Kobes the better playmaker aswell. I always used to have Timmy 1 spot over Kobe but honestly after more research and going back to watch actual tapes I have put Kobe 1spot higher than Timmy. But tbh it's so close idm whos higher.
Btw for an individual person, offense is simply more important than defence. For an individual.
@@marianosantiniello2213 Bro Duncan was averaging 13 when Kobe was dropping 28 on his 5th ring. Duncan had 1 season scoring over 23. Kobe averaged 35 and had the greatest scoring season in the history of the league. Stop being delusional.
@@Hazz1405 All that and Kobe still has more defensive 1st team selections. You literally cannot compare a guard and a big defensively. Kobe is arguably the 2nd best defensive guard in NBA history. Duncan is not even a top 4 defensive big. Hakeem, Kareem, Wilt and Russel were better defensively.
Kobe was more exciting and more "Jordanesque" in his style of play. That said, if you had an expansion team and had to surround either player with a bunch of scrubs the Duncan team would be better. Especially if he was taking many more shots. No question.
Ah I don’t know about that mainly because if you need someone to carry a scrub team Kobe is your guy took arguably the worst team of all time to the playoffs averaging 35 5 and 5 with two steals a game don’t forget Timmy d has always had great help but that wasn’t the case for Kobe from 05 to 08 those 3 years were rough
Teams of scrubs tend to do better with a guy that can do everything himself like Kobe instead of a guy like Duncan who needs someone to pass him the ball and isn't as valuable defensively behind a perimeter of scrubs who defend like a sieve. eg. look to AD trying to carry new orleans or any of garnett, love or KAT trying to carry Minnesota.
@@captainfantastic7643 Ad and Garnett did the same thing Kobe did with bums tho?
@@Bama-ou4nk Call me old school but I just think when push comes to shove rebounding and blocking shots and being able to score down low are more valuable if less exciting.
Kobe was like Allen Iverson in that he shot...A Lot. His field goal percentage wasn't all that great. And more guys in the league can average 2 steals a game than 2 or 3 blocks.
@@malikjames9035 who and when? If you calling them Timberwolves teams bums you high. What did AD do?
Kobe took a lot of what Paul George would call "bad shots"-Jonny Arnett
@Curly Que That's true indeed.If Kobe had let's say,Kyle Korver's role on a team he would average 43 percent from 3 on 6 attempts and that's to say the least.
Kobe also made more tough shots than anyone ever. - Me
@@thsu8 Lebron actually has the most field goals ever
@@imafunguy6636 Yes, because LeBron is the best athlete in NBA history which leads to easier shots in the paint and the rule changes allowed him to use his strength and athleticism to bully ball opponents. What does that have to do with Kobe's vastly superior skill level in hitting tough shots?
@@thsu8 Lebron is also a capable shooter and although Jordan was playing with hand checking,he could also do easy isolation plays everytime because of the defensive rules of his times.Dont get me wrong,lebron has it easy nowadays to run inside and shoot lay ups,but lets not act like lebron would not average 23 points in jordans era.Also,i think jordan and lebron are equally athletic,but wilt surpasses anyone in human history in terms of pure athleticism
I would personally go with Tim!
Tim is 10x better, kobe overrated af
@@williammal2166 other way around
@@mattryanfan2ify hes really good but tim’s career much better
@@otepdotnet how is Tim’s career better ?
@@mattryanfan2ify kobe got carried by shaq 3x in the finals. Duncan carried the spurs in the finals 5 times lmao 😂
I think Duncan had the better career, accolades, etc but I think Kobe was the better player , more versatile, etc
I disagree I think Kobe had the better career. Duncan was better for longer but that was only because of injury. Kobe’s peak was better than Duncan’s peak tho. It’s like lebron and Mj comparison.
I see that
@@Sigma4k_ no I think Tim Duncan being one of the greatest defenders of all time while being a consistent 22ppg and could give you 10 rebounds with 2 blocks has had a better career than Kobe.
Duncan was the more consistent every year
@@Sigma4k_ Duncan was good for longer. Kobe waa great fo longer. Kobe has thr longer prime but after Duncans prime he still brought value while Kobe was either on the bench or too injured
Kobe from 2008-2010 beat 11 50+ win teams in the playoffs. For his career, in championship runs, he averaged 3.4 50 win teams beaten in the playoffs, second only to Hakeem (3.5) and he won FIVE. He beat 25 50+ win teams in his career. First all time
Smashed duncan in their H2H matchups too
50 wins doesn’t automatically mean ur team is elite much less actual contenders
@@jasonmoukala8909 name the team in that run that wasnt
THREE b2b titles vs ZERO
is all anyone needs to know about who dominated who
This is stupidity 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂
Something you neglected: Duncan, along with Magic and Bird, have the highest team winning percentage.
This isn't due to circumstance; it's intent.
There was a time when the Lakers are failing as a franchise and Bryant is demanding a salary greater than Duncan, Parker and Ginobili COMBINED.
I'd credit a lot of that to Popovich tho
and he is 3rd in most career win. In the top 20 player with most career win, he has the highest win percentage, 71.91%.
duncan wasnt as good as kobe also didnt bring in the same revenue kobe brought. also duncan had the luxury of having no state tax so its alot easier to take less pay.
@@Myblacknadz Duncan wasn't as good as Bryant? Really? You may want to check the performances of both from 2011 to 2016, when both payers retired.
Let's see:
2011-2016
Bryant: 325 G, 24.2/5.0/4.7 regular season on .425/.305/.833 shooting
Post season: 22 G, 26.7/4.2/3.9 on .441/.287/.827 shooting.
The Lakers, with the "better" Bryant, went 208-268, .437
the Lakers won 9 playoff games in those six seasons
Duncan: 415 G, 14.1/9.1/2.7 regular season on .498/.138/.738 shooting
Post Season: 81 G, 15.5/9.2/2.2 on .499/.000/..734 shooting
The Spurs went 353-123, .742
The Spurs won 52 post season games and won a championship in those six seasons.
yes. Clearly...Bryant was worth soooo much more than Duncan, Parker and Ginobli.
From 2011 through the end on his contract, Bryant cost the Lakers $156.85 million to "lead" them to a sub .500 record and finish with the worst offensive season in NBA history.
From 2011 until the end of hos contract, Duncan cost the Spurs $80.55 million. The Spurs won 145 more regular season games and 41 more post season games.
@@Myblacknadz I'm guessing those extra 41 playoff wins brought in a helluva lot more revenue than Bryant was bringing in for LA while sitting at home and driving away free agents.
Tim Duncan's Spurs never missed the playoffs in his 20-year career. Better teammate, knew when it was appropriate to take over, helped foster a culture that made TP and Manu future HOFers. Would Timmy ever quit on his team like Kobe did in game 7 against the Suns in 2006? Not a chance. Duncan's game aged gracefully and he let Kawhi and Tony become the first options over time. Kobe was a chucker until his very last game. C'mon, man.
Even though I think Duncan>Kobe, you seem like a Kobe hater.
Kobe never quit at all or even in that series against suns
Because Tim Duncan had at least 2 other all stars around him
@@B345T1N355Official check Parkers and Manus career stats and accomplishments. Those are hardly "all stars". Manu only made 2. My man was carrying mediocrity to Glory. Kobe shot his teams out of the playoffa.
@@B345T1N355Official *cough cough* shaq, *cough,* dwight howard, *cough*steve nash *cough*
Tim Duncan. Changed the culture in San Antonio. 5 titles, 2 regular season mvp, 3 finals mvp. Better defender (15 all defensive teams), made teammates better, was unselfish. Chapionship contender every single year of his career.
Built the whole Spurs franchise, perpetually changed and flipped from almost worst to best, one of the top foundational players ever together with Lebron, carriers ever, and best 1st overall pick together with Lebron.
@@dusk6159 Extremely impactful leaders.
@@dusk6159 he didn’t flip the team lol Spurs were a playoff team evey year lol the year before Duncan got the Robinson played 6 games lol wth lol not like they was just ass and Duncan came to save the day lol
And a rookie of the year
@@kingameril2821 still don’t make him better than Kobe 😭😭
Man you made me appreciate Duncan alot more than I was originally giving him credit for. Nice research brother!
i find it almost impossible to solve objectively 'cause of the personalitys and their diffrent aproach to the game on and off the court
100% hard agree
I"ve been wondering on Jonny's opinion on this
he must picked Kobe, because he is the only major basketball RUclipsrs that are pro Kobe.
@@jonatanbarrang8049 Well just because he liked Kobe doesn't mean he picked him, but because if actual reasons, such as midrange scoring and work ethic.
Good video as always, but I disagree with the conclusion:
You pointed out at the end that Duncan is probably better for your team as a whole while Kobe is the "best basketball player" (which sounds like he was the most skilled / talented player). I would argue that being the best piece to add to your team is more important. It's a team sport, not an individual one.
Also Duncan's offensive impact is underrated. If needed he could be a scoring machine for his team, but he simply did what was right for them. He never cared about stats, and worth keeping in mind that the spurs were always one of the team with the slowest pace in the league. So it could be argued that stats need to be adjusted to reflect that. With as many possession as Kobe, it would be a slightly closer comparison for points. I still give the edge to Kobe obviously on offense because of how amazing he was, but I don't think the gap is as big as you said.
Finally Duncan wins slightly in terms of accolades for me: One more MVP, one more Finals MVP, 3 more all-defensive selection. Kobe has more all-star appearances but that mostly shows popularity (proven by the 15 All-NBA selections from both and Kobe's selection in 2014 when he only played 6 games!)
Yup all star show has no value, yao ming come to mind
I agree with you
If duncan is better for the team, why can't win Olympics? Then recruited kobe just to bring it back again?
@@terylbrandonteodosio3371 the infamous US bronze team lead by tim duncan. Had to assemble the redeem team and recruit kobe to bring back glory to US...I have to say, tim duncan is overrated...
Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs in he's entire career.
This one is a tough one, I can see both sides
No you're a Kobe fan who can't believe that Duncan is clearly the better player.
Very good answer.
To me personally it's Duncan, bc. he just seems so easy going and professional.
Better player not personality
@@bakothegreat6986
This matters because nobody wants a cancer
I’ll take a cancer if he averages 35 5 and 5 with 2 steals a game lol
@@Bama-ou4nk
Kobe was about 26 points many issues off court that matters if you are in prison i guess Kobe can play prison ball lol
@@Bama-ou4nk
Timmy no problems very professional got the job done 5 times being the best power forward ever
Duncan over Kobe simple because every year in the league his team was a contender. Not because of anything other than the fact Duncan was on the roster.. The 2003 run is top 5 all time!
Manu Ginobli is the most under rated star ever. Duncan never had to do it by himself. Don't know why I'm arguing with you though, it's super close
@@kingRukus39 because manu was the real 2005 finals mvp...
@@kingRukus39nobody ever wins by themselves, the only time someone had a chance of winning the finals with nobody was 2018 lebron and he ended up getting swept
Duncan’s supporting cast was way better
Lmao. No way this guy just said the only difference between the Spurs and Lakers was that Duncan was on the roster.
The way nba fans try to shamelessly rewrite history is sick. Are we just gonna act like Duncan wasn’t surrounded by HOF players his entire career? Admiral, Ginoibil, Parker, Kawhi and had some of the most elite role players ever? Diaw, Patty Mills, Green, Bruce Bowen, Belinni and many more that I’m forgetting. Those spurs teams had a record of over 60% when Duncan was out. That’s how good those teams were. Duncan was the more important obviously but to say the spurs were 100% that way cause of him is just objectively false. For reference the Lakers win percentage dropped to 40% when Kobe was off. And post Shaq, pre pau, his team was objectively horrible. It was him, Smush Parker and Kwane Brown in a stacked west. Duncan has had the luxury of having the best front office in league history AND a top 3 coach, who always had the right pieces to contend on any given year. NO player can single-handedly make a team dynasty, not even Lebron could do that, so to try and act like Duncan was the only reason why the Spurs were successful is crazy and shows that you are a casual who doesn’t have a clue.
i love your intro. that fade-away from jordan belongs in a museum. great music choice too.
I feel like Bias as Kobe being their favorite player really underrates Duncan's greatness. It's really close
Neck and neck in my book-just appreciate that we got to witness greatness!
The wars they had
Out of topic, but never change that intro man, it genuinely makes me watch your videos
More classy and sophisticated than Rusty Buckets for sure.
My FAVORITE player is Duncan.
It’s almost apples and oranges, but I appreciate Duncan’s approach to the game.
Kobe: flash
Duncan: grind
Duncan:catalyst
Kobe:shot creator
Kobe: who your organization wants
Duncan: who your organization needs.
Kobe: style
Duncan:substance
Kobe was the leader of some REALLY bad teams.
The Spurs with Duncan was -never- a losing team. The Spurs without Duncan almost immediately fell apart.
The Spurs with Duncan, Emanu Ginobli, Tony Parker and Craig Pop were not a losing team. Duncan never carried.
@@johncharlie3919 Then you should think Phil was carrying Lakers , not Kobe.
@@johncharlie3919 Duncan carried from 2001-2003.
Messed up part about this comparison,
Is that they both got in each other's way, one of them would have 7 or 8 rings if not for the other.
@@Peakfreud Yup. If not for Duncan, the Lakers likely win titles in 1999 and 2003. If not for Kobe, the Spurs likely win titles in 2001 and 2004. Think about that. The Spurs prevented the Lakers from likely winning 5 straight titles, and the Lakers prevented the Spurs from likely winning 6 titles in 9 years.
Duncan was more selfless and team orientated than Kobe which meant his team was more consistent and could evolve over the years whereas the low years for the Lakers in Kobe's last few seasons was the cost of having Kobe
Such a fantastic video, this is really a 1A and 1A.5 situation. But they only way i can make the choice is the fact the Lakers with Kobe have beaten the Spurs with Duncan 4-2 in playoff matchups. And kobe was unstoppable in every playoff series especially in 2001 and 2008 series.
You should read the matchups more deeply.
Tim Duncan is 2-1 against LeBron in the finals and averaged around 18 PPG and 11 RPG in those games. With the logic you just mentioned, then are you saying Duncan > LeBron
@@sankethreddy3359 there’s different factors. If both faced off in their prime and Duncan won 3 that’s a different story. But 2014 Duncan wasn’t the best player on the team. And 2007 lebron at 22 bought the bum ass Cavs to the finals. Kobe and Duncan were in their prime in the 2000’s and had elite coaching and good to great teammates. In this case I think it makes more sense to compare their match ups.
I think having Shaq and then Gasol and Bynum in their primes were bigger factors in those series than kobe.
@@sankethreddy3359 No he's not, you casual. Nobody thinks Duncan outperformed LeBron in the 13 and 14 Finals.
Duncan also didn't have 3 extended seasons to inflate career totals at the expense of young talents growths, nor have ridiculous retirement parade for an entire season, nor retire two numbers
Kobe didn't have one of the greatest head coaches, coaching staffs, and front offices in the league for his ENTIRE CAREER either, Duncan did. TD also had Parker and Ginobili for the bulk of his career as a solid core around which to build contending teams. The last 3 years of Kobe's career actually hurt his career averages. He was also benched as a rookie and played through 2 lockouts during his prime years. Kobe missed A LOT of games in his prime. Ridiculous retirement parade? lol kid are you butthurt? don't be a fucking hater.
Duncan never missed a playoffs. You had no problem mentioning 01 and 02 match ups but failed to mention 99 and 03 match ups in which Duncan was the best player in both series.
biased vid
Plus not mentioning the 3 second rule put in place to prevent Robinson and Duncan from beating Lakers in 01 and 02.
In 01 and 02, Kobe outperformed Shaq, Kobe was feared in San Antonio
@@logan1751nah
I think the debate with these two was settled when they met in the 08 playoffs. Both in their prime with similar strength supporting casts. Tony and Manu were both in their primes, and the squad was rounded out by a top perimeter defender in Bruce Bowen. Kobe had prime Gasol and Odom as stars on his team. Game 1 tells you all you need to know really: Spurs go up big, 16 points or so and Kobe just led the charge to reel the game back in with unstoppable scoring in the 2nd half. For all of Tim's defensive prowess, it wasn't enough in this matchup. Kobe dominated the Spurs.
It sounded like in Shaq wasnt going against the DPOY in 2001 final. You dont have to discredit Shaq's 3 final mvps to make case for Kobe.
@lethabo maunatla Still, he was DPOY in 2001
1 series vs a DPOY who was severely underweight vs Shaq. He didn't try to make a case for Kobe. Everybody know that the real Finals were against the Western teams & not the EC. That's where we get the East path is easier than the West we say today.
@@delconagher12 everyone will be underweight vs. Shaq. You can say the real final for 2000 and 2002 is WCF because it went 7 games (and shaq had bigger influence than Kobe). But in 2001, Lakers swept the west, but lost one game to 76ers.
I’ll be honest I normally agree but Duncan is my favorite player. You failed to mention Duncan never missed the playoffs. You failed to mention Duncan never had a super star teammate (kawhi became the superstar the year Duncan retired) I think bias got in the way of this video. I also love kobe, but you missed some very important things. You can say when comparing greats you have to factor in the playoffs and fail to mention one guy pushed his team to the playoffs every year and one guy missed the playoffs a couple times (even before injury). You can’t say Duncan just edged kobe in defense when Duncan has a case for greatest defensive player ever. I would never question your basketball knowledge because I know your smart. Just saying your missing some things. Also because Duncan was in the playoffs so much you see his name in the top 5 of mostly everything. Kobe wins offense, Duncan wins defense, Duncan wins playoffs , I don’t believe in accolades because as we seen they aren’t always fair. Kobe deserves more than 1 mvp , and Kobe doesn’t deserve some of his all star selections.
I mean he can’t say everything he probably missed some stuff about Kobe too
@Illusion umm smart guy, David Robinson was a SUPER STAR, and Kawhi won Finals MVP with Duncan as his teammate.
@@2020Viszion you clearly don’t understand basketball or the spurs organization. Please don’t reply unless you do some research.
Bird vs Magic gonna be a goodie gotta edge it too larry
That one is gonna be fun! Looking forward to it
@@jonnyarnett Peak Bird was unquestionably better than Magic. In their first 9 seasons before injuries started to derail Bird, he finished ahead of Magic in the MVP voting 8 out of 9 times, including winning three MVPs and finishing second four times. He also won ROY over Magic.
Ya gotta really give it up to Johnny mayn. He's an admitted Laker fan but still holds integrity when looking at the game as a whole.. Kudos to this man FRFR
Duncan was a part of a system that didn't highlight himself. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up if Pop played him like Phil did Kobe. He was pure TEAM ball and TEAM wins.
The Wake Forest career wasn't too shabby either.
Also honestly his athleticism and mobility was hindered after that injury in 2000
he’d be less efficient and not have as many accolades
@@duckboy5725 he's the best power forward ever. Good take👍
Duncan was the system
He is not a PF. He is a centre who can play PF@@jamestodd945
This is a surprisingly close comparison. I had no idea Kobe made that many All Defense teams; I thought it was common knowledge that he wasn't a very good defender in his later years. Or rather, I should say that he picked his spots on defense. He could still shut guys down, but it was clear he was saving himself for the other end of the court.
No shit die tore his Achilles rotator cuff and came back to soon from the Achilles Kobe's the most skilled player ever and it's not close .
Kobe was incredibly underrated defensively, deserved those selections
Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan are often compared in terms of their legendary NBA careers, with both players having won 5 championships. Kobe was known for his flashy style of play, while Duncan was recognized for his consistent and steady performance. It's worth noting that big men in the NBA, like Duncan, often don't receive as much credit as the smaller and more flamboyant players. This is a pattern also observed with greats like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan. Watching these legends play is a treat for basketball fans, and each of them has left an indelible mark on the sport.
"GOAT of their era" is a logical impossibility, but great video.
GOTE
Wow this is the first one where I seen someone put Kobe over Duncan.
At least when people do this comparison their surprised by how close it is. I think it’s a closer comparison between them then Bird and Magic.
Who you got between magic or bird?
I kept requesting it. IDK from this guys channel or others. I'm sick of all the TD>Kobe. Kobe post achilles really hurt his reputation. But Kobe>TD all day everyday.
@@delconagher12 TD>Kobe, Kobe wasn't even the best player in his first 3 rings
@@cassiusgrey2698 You do know that kobe had more accolades, more records, and better stats than duncan , despite having less help, having suffered more injuires and facing better competition (especially in the finals) . add that to the fact that on head to head matchups in the playoffs , kobe's got the better record. but sure, TD is better.
@@davidsanotonakap729 Bird was a better player (although Magic was GREAT), Magic had a better overall career (although Bird's career was GREAT).
I was there, and to me the reason Magic won 2 more rings than Larry was that:
1. He had a better team and a better coach.
2. The West was FAR weaker than the East back then, so the Lakers were always favored to get to the Finals.
From 1980 to 1990, 4 Teams from the East were battling for the title, and eventually won a title (76ers, Celtics, Pistons, and Bulls). They all had to play against each other for a chance to even make the Finals. LA had 1 team that gave them trouble, Houston, and that eeam quickly fell off once those guys fell to drugs and Sampson got hurt.
Wild that Tim never got DPOY. I watched his entire career, from Wake Forest to retirement. Aptly named “The Big Fundamental” by Shaq, Duncan never seemed to force the game, but ultimately played alongside some amazing playmakers like Parker and Ginobli and one of the teams to consistently punish opponents with the inside-outside game by having snipers on the 3pt line.
Kobe’s always going to be my guy, who I also watched from ‘96 on. I used to shout at my tv when he was younger and he was Mr Greenlight Gunner, and he would be having an off-game. As he aged like the fine wine, his ability to hit shot after shot was jaw dropping - poor Ruben Patterson 😂
Just glad I’ve gotten the chance to see both legends blaze their own individual trail to scale to the heights of greatness they both achieved!
Love your videos ❤
I'm going Duncan. Hes my all time favorite.
I’m going with Scal, no question
@@imthatmf2148 same
My favorite too
@@krob8823 he's my favorite as well but scal is just better.
Me too
The balls to drop this video are appreciated
This is the most unbiased and true reporting on this matchup of greatness. Kudos Jonny Arnett! Well done.
so much of it is biased, such as how he mentioned kobe outplaying duncan in 01 and 02, but not duncan outplaying kobe in 99 and 03
"he took alot of what paul george would call bad shots" 🤣🤣😂😂
I go with Duncan.
One reason is comprehensive stats like PER generally rate Duncan higher than Kobe. This is mainly because Duncan's defensive impact is much bigger than Kobe's. In general, big mans' defensive impact is not comparable to guards'.
The other, I put Duncan over Kobe in terms of accolades. Because, in my opinion, Kobe's MVP should have been given to CP3.
IMO, one of Duncan’s and dirks goes to Kobe. So now he’s at 2
A Kobe fan which has a fair, unbiased opinion on his strengths and weaknesses? Very uncommon to come by!
Great video as ever. Been watching them battle it out since 98' and it's crazy to think all the years I've been watching the NBA, combined they hold a decade worth of championships! Both dominated the sport like few before them and after. Hopefully the Spurs will get back to their winning ways, sooner rather than later.
That is actually an excellent way to compare GOAT's, by era.
just Kobe's style of play was much harder to maintain, even though Timmy is my favorite big man.
Kobe and Duncan are both people who suffer from their era. Kobe’s dominance is underrated while Timmy’s leadership is underrated. Both of them should be in the GOAT debate.
Both of them are amazing in their own right.
You got to remember Phil love to coach through the media. He was simply coaching Kobe up. The defense scheme was to collapse the defense into the bigs so Kobe would use his help a lot more when Gasol and Bynum were on the court. Kobe was checking the 1-3 on defense because Derek Fisher couldn’t guard his man. So Kobe would routinely guard Elite point guards. Even Jordan took mention during Kobe’s last great season talking about watching him guard elite point guards at 34 was crazy
totally a Phil scheme...100
Tim duncan is the goat of his position and a top 10 player i put him above kobe, 1000 wins(literally) 70% win rate , winning record against every team, one rebound away of 6 for 6 in finals (assuming they would win in 14 even after winning in 13) willing to take paycuts to bring and retain talent, leadership. Just amazing
This is gonna be so good..I liked before the video even started
This one is very close, but I would take Duncan over Kobe. I think of it as "Who would I like more on my team" and Duncan is the undeniable winner there. Kobe, for as amazing a player as he is, was not a good team player. He wasn't a good leader and wasn't able to cultivate half as good a team culture that TD was. If we're talking pure stats, then I agree with what you said that Kobe has the slight advantage. But there's more to basketball then just the stats. If I had to take a player for a single series, I would most likely pick Kobe. But if I had to pick a player for a franchise, then I would pick TD every time.
What a joke with your bullshit standards. Ask any of Kobe's teammate & tell him that shit & they'll laugh at you. Even Smush finally admitted that he should have listened to what Kobe was saying. Fucking missing open layups & dunks, will get even TD cursing at his teammates.
Kobe was a great team player. But as a guard, he needs to have more of a team around him than Duncan did. That's just the way basketball worked back then. Picking either isn't a wrong choice for those of us who were there to see it.
@@delconagher12 when are people gonna learn that leadership isn't about coddling. If grown men want yo be coddled than stay home with mommy. They don't seem to understand.
Tim & Kobe are both superstar players. !
5 NBA Titles each
These two gentlemen really made every
player , better .
Really an joy to watch these two play
basketball !
I mostly go with Duncan due to more final's MVP's and more league MVP's
But it doesn't mean anything because Kobe was only one time MVP, but he had many times better statistics than players who won MVP. Kobe had better statistics than tim Duncan in 2003, in 2006 he had better statistics than both Steve Nash and Shaq and it was the best season of his career, in 2007 also he was most impactful player in both ways on the court, and he won MVP only in 2008, so Kobe should have minimum 3 MVPs in his careerzbut he spend his prime with horrible supporting cast.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 More Impactful and Better Statistics are 2 completely Different Things
Duncan for sure was more Impactful than Kobe in 03
Dirk was more Impactful than Kobe in 06
And LeBron was more impactful than Kobe in 07
@@OK-yy6qz dude, did you know when Dirk won MVP? 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@OK-yy6qz Dirk won MVP in 2007, and yeah, Kobe was definitely the best player that year, the best, the most impactful and great in every aspect, also in 2006 it was criminal that Steve Nash won MVP, Kobe averaged 35,5 points, 6 assists and 6 rebounds on 45% shooting while was in first team all defense and nobody other was first team all defense averagins 35 points, that year he had 81 points, 62 in three quarters and I don't know what he could do more than that, man was just on another level in 2006 and even in 2007.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 i messed up the Years
Dirk Definitely Deserved it in 07 he had 25 and 9 on 50/40/90 but more importantly led a Pretty Mediocre Team to 67 Wins
In 06 Kobe did Deserve it because he had a Massive Carry Job to a bad team but with that Logic he didn't Deserve it in 08 because LeBron did the Same in 08 with Better Stats Than Kobe
My favorite player and favorite PF of all time. Kobe was the greatest of his era Tim Duncan was arguably the greatest big man of his era, yes even greater than Shaq. I know that seems controversial, Kobe and Duncan on the same team would have been better than Kobe and Shaq. In my opinion.
TD defeated the prime Shaq defending 3 peat champions. Of course TD gonna give shaq the business
@@gold6813 plus he had like 0 help
Kobe and Garnett would be the best possible duo in the early 2000's. Mutual respect and perfect chemistry. The two most competitive guys in the league, with the selfless Garnett taking a back seat. 7 rings easy.
@@thsu8 It almost happened too before Garnett went to Boston.
@@andersondown2542 TD had zero help? Lol 😂
The whole conversation is disrespectful, tim is top 5 & kobe is top 15
Both had Hall of Fame coaches. Kobe had Shaq, Glen Rice, Gary Payton, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Pau Gasol as help. Duncan, had Tony Parker, Ginobli, Finley, Stephen Jackson and an older David Robinson, and young Kawhi at the end of his career. In terms of talent I think Kobe had more help, Duncan had the better system. I'm saying Duncan was greater.
Why he never won back too back
The GOAT drops his gold once more 🏀🏀
It's like the Chamberlain vs. Russell debate. Kobe may have a lot of better stats, and may be a better individual player, but basketball is not an individual sport. Duncan and Bill Russell were both masters of defense, and masters of the team game. Both showed that defense may not lead to the most remarkable stats, but it leads to championships.
Duncan was fortunate enough to play in a system where the weight was evenly distributed. Kobe and his Lakers were often very top heavy with Kobe carrying the bulk of the weight. Kobe was more vital to the Lakers success than Duncan was to the Spurs'. This is apparent through the fact that Duncan averaged far less minutes per game, and often sat out entire games, and the Spurs would still win a ton of games. Timmy and Pop practically invented load management. The Lakers never had the luxury of load managing Kobe. Kobe is a greater talent overall. Also, Kobe vs Duncan in playoff series went 4-2 in favor of Kobe. Very big strike against Tim when comparing the 2.
2 MVPs and 3 FMVP 🐐
Comparing their stats and accolades in the Decade 2000-2009:
Tim Duncan
Championships: 3
MVP:2
FMVP:2
All star:10x
All NBA Selections:10x
All NBA Defensive:10x
Playoffs Appearance:10x
Pts: 16,110
Point avg: 21.4
REB avg: 11.7
AST avg: 3.2
BLK avg: 2.3
STL avg: 0.8
Kobe Bryant
Championships: 4
MVP:1
FMVP:1
All star:10x
All NBA Selections:10x
All NBA Defensive:9x
Playoffs Appearance:9x
Pts Total: 21,550
Point avg: 28.0
REB avg: 5.8
AST avg: 5.3
BLK avg: 0.6
STL avg: 1.6
These are the reason why the 2000-2009 decade is shared with Timmy and Kobe. Both have competitive accolades and stats.
Timmy has more MVPs, FMVPs, All Defensives, Playoffs Appearances, Rebounds, Blocks
Kobe has more Championships, Points, Assists, Steals, Scoring Champs
80s-magic vs. Bird
90s- michael
00s-kobe vs. Duncan
10s-lebron vs.curry
Also isiah
@@musahussaini6036 thank you...that is the man that is slept on the most..
If you want more highlights - Kobe Bryant
If you want a winning team - Tim Duncan
Kobe's Lakers went to 7 NBA Finals and Won 5 Chips in the Duncan era. They were both winning teams.
The difference between this two is in 2 points: 1. when Kobe was working on stats in mid-00 TD was deep in the playoffs. 2. When Kobe was scoring 60 in his last game of the career (regular season not playoff), TD was deep in the playoff. TD played 48 playoff series vs. 43 Kobe has (with more seasons played). Don't forget that Spurs were 2 shots away from 2 more finals and 1 shot away from 1 more title.
TD was fucking caried from parker and leonard from 2007 until 2014 ...what fdo u mean by "He was deep in the playoffs"...I would rather to score 60 f-points in my last game than to be a bench player in a playoff team
@@gzk13kc28 Leonard - 2007? Really?
Yup they were finals mvp man
@@gzk13kc28 Look what you wrote one more time. Anyway, TD was the bedrock of the team up until ~2010/11.
Kobe: More talented player
Duncan: Rather have in your organization
Even tho Kobe beat him 4 out of 6 times in the playoffs?
Perfect way to say it
Nonsense.
@@colewrld901 you're forgetting about Shaq in his prime tho
@@clydetheglidetop5sgtop10du7 you'd have a point if Kobe wasn't the best player on the court during their matchups. He dominated the spurs individually
Just looking at the stats you can still easily give it to Duncan. Advanced stats are a much better look at their overall games than just the counting numbers, and Duncan had a much better PER, WS/48, Box Plus/Minus and VORP than Kobe in both the regular season and playoffs. Duncan also had the same career Offensive Rating as Kobe of 110 but a vastly better defensive rating of 96 vs Kobe's 105.
And Kobe is a super overrated defender. He had specific moments where he could look impressive, but as an overall team defender he was not great. His Defensive Rating was at or below league average for basically his entire career. And his Box Plus/Minus on defense is -0.1 for his career, he had a negative rating 10 seasons, and only had a rating above +1.0 once. While Duncan averaged +5.6, was never worse than +3.0, and was better than +7.0 five times. And with roughly the same number of career games, Duncan had 106 defensive Win Shares vs Kobe's 50. I'd give the edge to Kobe on offense, but Duncan blows Kobe away on the defensive end.
If you had the no.1 draft pick and needed someone to build a franchise around, theres not a single gm that wouldnt take Duncan over Kobe.
If we being real Duncan’s only close to Kobe on paper as far as their resume and accomplishments. But there’s levels to this and Kobe’s just on a different level when it comes to ability/skill.
Only Kobe fans are obsessed with this idea of skill. So what Kobe could shoot a 20 foot fadeaway whilst being double teamed better?
Who is more skilled to you; Dirk or Shaq?
@@hardwoodthought1213 They’re not competing in a triathlon or anything 😂.That’s what basketball is about a bucket, skill.
To answer ur question obviously Dirk is more skilled than Shaq, but Shaq is literally the most physically dominant player in NBA history and simply accomplished more than Dirk…
I brought up skill between Kobe and Duncan because they’re accomplishments are pretty close across the board, but there’s a significant gap between Kobe’s offensive skill and Duncan’s. That’s why Kobe>Duncan
@@isaacsmith3901 How is 1 more MVP, 1 more FMVP, 4 more All-Defensive teams, more MVP votes close?
Kobe is obviously more skilled than Duncan, but it doesn’t make him better. Because he wasn’t
@@hardwoodthought1213 Everybody knows not to put too much stock into MVPs. Players get robbed of that almost every year. MJ only got 5 and he clearly was the best player in the league more than 5 times. Kobe got robbed of at least 3 MVP awards. Also Kobe has more scoring titles and All Star selections so it’s essentially the same difference. That’s why I said their close when it comes to accomplishments. Duncan has a few more of some things and Kobe has a few more of some other things👌.
No disrespect to Duncan but he wasn’t better than Kobe. Kobe at his peak was the best offensive player and one of the best defensive players in the NBA. Duncan can’t say that. When u compare how they played defensively Duncan was a lil better but it’s closer. Duncan only has 3 more All Defensive selections but Kobe made more 1st team All defense selections-9 (tied for most all time).
Offensively Kobe is clearly better and it’s not even close. Duncan’s only avg more than 25PPG 1X in the regular season and 1X in the playoffs for his career. Kobe did 12X in the regular season and 10X in the Playoffs for his career. Also like the vid showed, they have almost the identical TS% while Kobe shoots almost 50% more than Duncan. Kobe is better than Duncan like Buddy said in the vid, because of the wide gap that exists between the two offensively compared to defensively.
You had me until the last category. There is no way you can objectively say Kobe was better from an accolades standpoint. Duncan had more MVP's, FInals MVP's, and more All Defensive team selections while splitting all NBA selections.
Tough one… I’d go with Duncan overall but Kobe at his prime. But then again Duncan was a MONSTER in the playoffs
Kobe is more of a "I'll carry this team in the playoffs and finals"
Tim is more of the "My team will destroy you and I'm the focal point of that team"
2003 destroys this narrative
thats false. During kobe's prime years(05'-07'), kobe never led his team to any playoffs or let alone come close to winning one. He needed a big man to get to the finals. Tell me Im wrong. Kobe didnt carry his team also because he was a ball hog and rather take some dumbass midrange contested clutch shot than pass it to a wide open teammate.
@@woo_shynen8805 wowwwww omg....A team needs a good second player to win the championship....u are a basketball genius
Tim Played Beautiful basketball
Kobe being 4-2 against Duncan in the playoffs is the tie breaker for me.
You're forgetting about Shaq tho
Most definitely have to factor in shaq
@@str8duval he beat him without shaq in 2008
@@str8duval so u cant make that excuse he beat Duncan right after his title reign in 2007
@@Guerrillachop Duncan beat Kobe before and after the lakers 3 peat as the main guy. The one victory in 08 should hardly be a determining Factor
There is no slight edge in defense. Advance stats show Duncan career rating was 96, while kobes was 105. Duncan is considered top 3 in defense all time while Kobe is not considered top 20. The diff between the 2 is more then a slight edge to Duncan. Honestly their not in the same league when it comes to defense.
Imagine if Kobe and Tim teamed up 🐐
Pau Gasol was good in his own rite
Seeing as Kobe's favorite opponent was the Spurs whereas the Spurs least favorite opponent was Kobe, that says enough IMO.
Also that Kobe is the only player in the 20 year play-off and league timespan of the Spurs who had more wins then losses vs them.
The only player, not team, player.
Oh and Timmy was a monster and HIGLY UNDERRATED, since he clearly is a top 10 player but rarely is put in the top 10.
I'm putting Duncan at 5-6 all time.
@@BallerBrain I dont know if he'd be 5th or 6th but he has a serious case to be so so fair game.
@@Herosennin After thinking it over, I decided to put him at 7th. I'd understand 8th.
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell
This top 10 list is open to adjustments. For example, my 5th-8th are all extremely close, so I could be convinced to switch up the order there. I believe I included the right players. though I'm not to sure about Hakeem at 10.
@@BallerBrain Basically like mine lol.
Jordan
Wilt
Kobe, Lebron, Kareem IMO is a tossup
Bird,
Magic
Duncan
Olajuwon
Shaq
Lebron could end up 2nd and I never understood how people put Shaq over Timmy. I also think Olajuwon was better.
@@Herosennin I'm trying to decide if I want to throw Bill Russell or Kevin Durant in there
On playoffs category, team success shoulve also been a factor which would make TD the playoffs category winner
Kobe also had that “it” factor. He was exciting to watch, which sells tickets. I’m starting my franchise with Bean. Like you said they accomplished very similar accolades. But to me the Mambas game was more exciting!
Kobe also beat Duncan's butt in the playoffs 4 times out of 6 series
@@colewrld901 true
Great point. There is a financial benefit to having Bean and his "it" factor. Kobe was able to sell out the Stables Center when there are a million other things to do in Los Angeles.
But Kobe is bad to be a teammates
@@hateorlovebothstartswithin9145 nah Kobe was well respected by his teammates and was a great leader when he took over the Lakers. He just didn't respect bums or players that didn't try or work on their games.
Personally, I would put Kobe over Duncan but it's close
Agrre
Why?
Actually not close but I agree. Kobe was just better individual player period. Duncan played with what 3 other future HOF ? GTFO... Simps these days 🤦 I'm over this generation 🖕🖕🖕🖕 Weakest Gen all time!!! When bron tires you'll see No one give a shit & will just move to the next chosen Zion. Which I dub has potential Jordan Kobe esqu level. You bron delusional Fkss
@@box1877 you clearly trolling 😂
And this is why kids, you don’t do crack
To me there's no stretch of Kobe's career that equals 99-03 Tim Duncan as far as overall impact. He would drop 30pt, 15+reb type games regularly in the post season with 4-5 blks and a handful of assists to go with it. He was unstoppable in the post and had an excellent face-up game as well, he could kill you on the boards, and was arguable the best defensive big in the league especially his help defense. And contrary to revisionist history those early 2000s Spurs team were not uber talented by any stretch of the imagination. Only one allstar teammate during that run in Robinson and he was washed after the 99 championship, then you had players like Danny Ferry, Speedy Claxton, Antonio Daniels and Malik Rose starting games and playing big minutes, and the Spurs were still winning 58-60 games and making deep playoff runs every year.
This doesn't factor in help. Tim duncan won his titles with a very old david robinson and Tony parker who didn't make the all star team a lot of years. Kobe got shaq, who some have as the greatest center ever. And dont say duncan had coach pop Kobe had phil.
Kobe had the better teammates but Duncan had better chemistry with his teammates and did better as a team. Kobe had a really bad beef with some of his teammates that it affected their team's performance like not passing the ball to one another when it really matters the most. It's really close but Duncan had a slightly better help thanks to their team's chemistry. As far as I'm aware of, Tim and Spurs have Pop for the majority of their career while Kobe and the Lakers have another main coach other than Phil somewhere throughout their career.
@@psalmerperena1947 thats kobes fault for being a selfish teammate who nobody liked. You can't punisg duncan for being a good teammate
@@seanflaherty1225 First of all, it's not only Kobe's fault although he is responsible for a lot of the beefs. Shaq, Meta World Peace(Artest), and even Dwight Howard are also at fault(although I applaud Howard for changing for the better this time). Second of all, I am not taking anything from Tim when I said he had a little more help for having better chemistry with his team. I never said Kobe was the better player or vice versa. I am only disagreeing with what you said that Kobe had greater help.
@@seanflaherty1225 is their proof that kobe was a selfish teammate ?
TD had more help bruh! WTF you talking about? Lakers were top heavy only 2 player HOF while the Spurs have a starting 5 HOF. Kobe & Shaq had basically role players beside them while TD had 5 HOF or more if you really count it. Even Bruce Bowen was great.
I'VE BROKEN THIS DOWN WITH FRIENDS AND HATERS FOR YEARS......I WENT THRU ALL THE STATS THERE ARE.......I HAVE KOBE AS THE BEST OF THE ERA!!!!!
Huge Spurs fan but I agree with your breakdown. has anyone ever had a quad double in finals history? Duncan was 1 digit short I remember watching the game live. That was the single most dominating performance by a player I've ever witnessed.
If one were to give a statistical value to each accolade, Tim Duncan would be on Top. Also, individual Awards and Honours should be Valued differently according to heirarchy.
I believe it was incorrect to leave out the Rebounds and Assists. Both are key aspects to their abilities, one should simply compare the game impact, season dominance and All-time standing of both Duncan's Rebounding vs Kobe's assists.
There is bias here. Duncan and Kobe are not even in the same league when it comes to defense. Duncan is top 3 all time super elite defense, Kobe is not top 25 all time in defense. Look at advanced stats show a gap in defensive ability. Also if you watch Thinking basketballs video on Kobe, he breaks down the facts and shows Kobes D peaked in 2000 and fell of around 07/ 08. Kobe all team defense is a bit sus as you say because in that time peroid Tony Allen was much better defender than Kobe was but he didnt get the credit. In reality as Phil said Kobe got more selections then he should have for all nba defensive teams. Lets get real he shouldnt have as many as Gary Payton or MJ both whom were much better at D. I dont care who u think is better but i do think u manipulated argument to make it seem as Kobe was close with Duncan in Defense which he is not.
Good point
Honestly I'll give the nod to Duncan, and I'm a huge Laker fan. Loved my Shaq and Kobe era. The way I see it is Duncan did something bigger than anything Shaq and Kobe ever did together. He came to a team that never won a championship, and turned them into a consistent winner. Learned a lot from veteran David Robinson, then continued to win after the Admiral exited into retirement.
Shaq and Kobe's impact is great yes, but the Lakers organization were already had that established reputation thanks to Magic Johnsons and Kareem's era, as well as Jerry West and co before them.
kobe!!
Kobe was the better player but I pick Duncan for his humbleness and leadership. Average less mins on purpose and never missed the playoffs. No wrong answers like you said but I’m picking Duncan
Also Duncan was one shot away from having 6 championships and one cp3 floater away from advancing to go for another title. Also should’ve one a DOPY so another reason I choose Duncan. If you pick Kobe your not wrong either. I also have a personal preference for quite guys like d rose, kawhi, and kareem
Scal was better than both of them. Goat.
1) Jordan
2) Bron
3) Kareem
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Wilt
7) Russell
8) Hakeem
9) Duncan
10) Shaq
Lebron is not 2nd to Jordan
@@antoinefulgencediouf9735 at this point it’s hard to argue his position as the 2nd, in my opinion.
I wish i could like this video twice!!!