James White is the greatest Catholic apologist alive. He's converting so many to the Catholic Church one could wonder if he's not a Catholic himself. God Bless you.
Jesus told Peter right before His ascension, Peter there are MANY things I need to tell you but you CANNOT understand them yet.., but I will send the Comforter.. and He will guide you into ALL Truth!! Tell me James, explain that please. 🙏🏻 ❤️
So I’m confused (mixed in with a lot of disappointment), but In the spirit of seeking clarity I feel inclined to raise some issues. The title of the Sermon series is “Loving our Catholic Neighbors”. I watched the White / Akin debates and I was very interested in hearing about interfaith relations, building rapport or at least respect as a bridge to evangelization from the Baptist perspective. This being especially important with the rise of aggressive secularism and modernity (or is it post modernity, or post-post modernity). Christendom writ large is threatened, and while we shouldn’t ignore faith differences, the defense of Christendom will require unity, or at least mutual understanding. Instead, in Night 1 we got an hour and a half of attacks on the Church and Papacy (although there appeared to be some grudging admiration of Muslims). Then night 2 materialized into a polemic against the Marian doctrines with more pot shots, praise of vandalism, calling the writings of a church doctor poison, and demeaning Maximilian Kolbe of all people. Mind you, I could just be unaccustomed to Baptist methods of loving, but my assumption when the pastor introduced to talk with “because we love our Catholic friends and family we have to be able to effectively share this gospel of grace with them and show them how it is different from what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, again we're not trying to win arguments we are pleading with souls to trust in Jesus Christ” was that love and effective sharing would be involved. Instead we got a lot about how to win arguments, but charity and love appeared completely Lacking. To be fair, maybe winning arguments was the point of the talk, and the objective was to drive home Dr. White’s issues with Catholicism, and lay out arguments against the Catholics, leaving it to the viewer to figure out the loving part, but that’s certainly not what I got from the video titles or the pastor’s introduction. Wouldn’t it be more effective to point our common ground as a foundation for explaining differences, or pointing out the apparent virtues of the Catholics before getting into disagreements. An approach like “I think it’s beautiful that you honor the mother of Jesus, and without her fiat, salvation as it happened could not have taken place . . . However, some of the Catholic writings I've read seem problematic, could we talk about it so I can understand where you’re coming from” Then you can start pointing out problems through the lens of trying to learn what the Catholics believe, trying to create understanding rather than combativeness. The example we get from Dr. White’s is telling a Catholic that his beads (possibly a rosary) is “an idol” and if “He needs a mediator with Jesus he doesn’t know Jesus”. White describes this as straightforward, and without context we can’t know for sure, but I think most of us would describe it as being a pretentious prick. Mind you, it’s one example, and anecdote is not data, but given the talk gives so few real life examples of Catholic / Protestant discussion (outside the innumerable debate references), that it’s one of the only practical application examples from the talks. If this “straightforward” approach is the approach advocated by Dr. White, it seems counter productive at best and actively destructive at worst. In any case, it seems incongruent with Jesus and His Apostles evangelization strategies, which mixed a firm defense of the faith with welcoming, bridge-building, and understanding. Dr. White appears vindictive throughout both nights, both in his theology and generally when he derides Jimmy Akin, Catholic answers, and others. Calling out Jimmy Akin’s theology is acceptable, although I think it could be done more charitably when the objective is evangelization and not debate, but calling out his attire or his hat just seems mean spirited. Especially since Dr. White waiting for Akin to be gone so he couldn’t defend himself. Mind you, it’s possible Dr. White simply can’t help himself. Half the Presentation appeared to be him dragging other people down (from Catholics to Airlines) and puffing himself up talking about previous debates and street cred (but now I’m being uncharitable, so let’s switch gears). However, I don’t think such tactics would go very far when trying to reach across the Tiber or save souls. Because of the proximity to the two Akin / White debates that preceded the talks, and Dr. White’s numerous pot shots at Akin, He can be used as an obvious counter example. Mind you, Jimmy Akin can come across as infantilizing and derisive in a “bless your heart” sort of way, something Louisianas are intimately familiar with. However, at least he appeared to be having a good time. He also appeared interested in acknowledging the piety of Protestants and creating common ground, even if only to bolster his points. His casualness is probably infuriating to academia. However, its fairly good branding ( he would probably point out the similar infuriation of the Sadduceces with the unschooled ordinary men of Galilee). I suppose I need to search youtube and see what he has to say on interfaith dialogue and Love, because he definitely appeared to be more inviting than Dr. White over the course of their time in Louisiana. A more sober example is Maximilian Kolbe. Dr. White calls him (or at least his writings) demonic. Kolbe volunteered to die in place of a Jew in a concentration camp. He is one of the best known modern martyrs, and almost universally seen as an example of christian love. It seems, at least to me, that Kolbe would be an excellent interfaith bridge, he died in place of a Jew, showing that love spills the bounds of individual Faiths. Protestants could easily praise the piety and spiritual fortitude of Kolbe, using it to build rapport with the Catholics. Then we could charitablely question some of his writing, pointing out the issues, showing examples of similar virtues exhibited by Kolbe in protestant thinkers, and then expanding on those protestants’ views of Mary and theology. Dr. White’s use of Kolbe appears dismissive and uncharitable, especially when most Catholics know the “rest of the story” so to speak, leading them to dismiss any useful points the Protestant might make in the encounter. So, to close, because this has already become too long to be useful. What was the objective of the talk, and what will people who watch this video come away with? If a catholic clicks a video entitled “Loving our Catholic Neighbors”, and is greeted with 3 hours of attacks on their faith, including popular saints, what will the takeaway be? Is it more likely that they will be pleasantly surprised by the love and charity of Protestants, and be made curious to learn more about the source of this love and charity; or will it entrench their negative stereotypes of protestants, and deter them from seeking good faith dialogue. Conversely, if a protestant watches the video, what will they come away with? They will glean that they should know their faith (probably the best point made by Dr. White), but how will they spread that faith to Catholics? By being “straightforward”, by deriding their attire and calling their theology demonic and their rosaries idols. That doesn’t seem like an effective approach to me, but if that's what Dr. White suggests, I guess we’ll see how it plays out. I wonder what Jimmy Akin has to say on the subject?
This is an excellent post, thank you for the thoughts. I couldn’t agree with you more. There is no love or charity in James White’s. He has an I’m right and you’re wrong arrogance. He is clearly not interested in interfaith dialogue.
Very thoughtful post! As a Catholic, we consider all baptized Christians to be our brothers and sisters in Christ. Many Protestants (like White) don’t think this way about Catholics. On one hand, I understand, as the default position of Christianity is for unity, so to remain outside the historical Church requires a very strong justification, which in it’s most severe form is outright condemnation of all Catholics. When the window is opened a crack by acknowledging that Catholics are indeed Christians, then all the types of inquiries you ask come into play (which MIGHT eventually lead one to contemplate joining the Catholic Church if questions are answered and the Catholic Church then becomes viewed as having a legitimate claim to having been founded by Christ). I think White wants to nip that in the bud with his extreme claims (like that Catholics “worship” Mary). Of course, in reality, there is nothing wrong with inquiry at all, it is healthy. Seeking the truth is always good - whether scientific, religious, or philosophical. But I think White sees this as a threat. His own sister converted to Catholicism. Even though Catholics are required to assent to Catholic teaching, it doesn’t mean we individually understand it all. And this of course is true of all Christians, as we may initially “accept” propositions on faith, but it takes more time for these to be written on our hearts. Initially we may just see a list of “nos” and don’t understand how God’s laws are oriented to perfect love of Him and neighbor and the immense dignity of each person created in His image. But as we submit to Him, our very being becomes transformed - by his love into one that loves as He does. White wants to create a caricature of Catholicism that is not only easy to stand against but which COMPELS one to stand against it. Heck, if all he said was true then I certainly wouldn’t be a Catholic. We do have important differences from Protestants - but we share a belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for us that we might be united with Him and the Father. That is huge! This is a strong basis for sincere people to look for unity, while at the same time honestly discussing our differences. For Catholics, I’d say the single biggest difference is our belief that Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, is really and truly present in the Eucharist, He is here with us, becoming our very food. So personally, I suggest that any Protestant who wants to really understand Catholicism starts there by taking a deep dive into this belief. When one gets into the weeds of other beliefs first (like Marian doctrines of the immaculate conception and the assumption), that is a much more difficult path - kind of like an atheist picking around the edges at difficult passages in the Bible instead of focusing on the big picture of the Christian claim of who Jesus Christ is and why we need Him as our Savior. Again, I enjoyed reading your post. It was spot-on. Peace.
Thank you for sharing, I agree with the sentiment. The title was clickbait and misleading as far as I see it. Some Protestants have hatred toward the Catholic church, which is understandable but often just misguided. Damning other Christians to hell for your faith to be true is just sad, they do this with other Protestant churches too sometimes with doctrinal issues. 2+ billion other Christians are wrong or going to hell or not even Christian, even if we believe the same core beliefs, no adding of statues or works or extra prayers allowed.
James White should listen to his heretic master: “There is no worse screen to block out the Spirit than confidence in our own intelligence.” -John Calvin
I am a Baptist Protestants and believe in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 about salvation. I know Catholic believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Catholic are saved by Christ too. I don't believe in OSAS either. That would be if two christian got divorce and remarry, this would be adultery. Adultery can't enter the Kingdom of God. The OSAS would say this is wrong but you can't lose your salvation so don't worry about it . This type of teaching is against the bible. Paul said 1 Corinthians 7:39 only the death of a spouse can someone be free to remarry. Catholic loves the LORD but different ways of showing it . We as Protestants and Catholic should be witness to people who worship idols and other FALSE gods.
Well put, when it comes right down to it we almost all share the very core and vital beliefs that make us all brothers and sisters in Christ. Catholics might say one must be Baptized, if Protestants dont they usually still do Baptize. Catholics have statues and images of saints, this is not idolatry as all glory and honor goes to God, no different from the cross itself or as Jews still use the star of David or Lion of Judah.
The more I listen to anti-catholic the more I feel closer to Christ and his Catholic Church. If there are so many protestant scholars pastors and historians who are becoming catholic there must be a reason
Amen. But it does make me pray. It is sad how some criticize what they don’t understand. This Jesus that so many love (which I believe they do) invites all to an intimate communion with him in His Church. All graces flow from His Church - even those received by those not in full communion with the Church.
@@svenmuller1045 So you are willing to put your faith in James White’s opinions and interpretation of the Bible? Please reach beyond him if you want to understand Catholicism. He is badly misinforming people. We live in an age where you can go directly to sources and read for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches (or watch wonderful videos, like Scott Hahn videos). I invite you to do this. There are thousands - likely even millions - of men and women over the last two millennia who have spent as much or more time studying theology than James White. He uses rhetorical methods like mockery to try to “win” and to try to make Catholicism seem weird and foreign. He is just way off base. Please look into these things for yourself by going to many different sources, and try to do so without prejudice. Sadly, many Protestants have been taught many lies about Catholicism - so overcoming the built-in prejudice is not always easy. I was brought up in a very ecumenical Catholic home, so I love my Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ… but the lies from those who slander the Church sadden me.
@@svenmuller1045 I get where you are coming from. Cradle Catholic with a bit of Lutheranism mixed in there here. I’ve been where A lot of Catholics have been and heard what James White is saying. Am I infuriated with the sexual abuse crisis, you bet! Do I like everything that comes out of Pope Francis’s mouth? No. Has the church done horrible things in history? No doubt. It’s run by sinners after all. The Catholic Church has done a great job of shooting itself in the foot for a long time. I remember more catechesis from my first grade teacher who was a nun than any other teacher I had from second grade through high school combined!! However, I stay because of the Eucharist. Because of the beautiful example the saints have provided over the years in how to live even though we are all sinners in need of God’s Grace.
this guy still lives off the glory of his 90's debates and disregards all the modern-day access we have to information that exposes the flaws in his theology
His arguments are valid then and now lol what are you talking about, did you even watch both part debates? James white wasn’t given a single shred of evidence for Catholic theology by atkins at all!
Exactly where did James cherry pick? Using scripture for different topics isn’t cherry picking. Nor is pointing out sentences in books that have been written using scripture to show how it’s wrong is what every Christian should be doing.
A Calvinist saying Catholics have strange teachings and explanations of scripture is hilarious. A Majority of your fellow Protestants would say the same about your beliefs my friend.
Oh the irony, I still think God made them for a reason. Their works should be directed towards Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Jews and Muslims or agnostics/atheists.
The doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like James White, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. The ironic thing about that critique is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the scripture. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years. At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority. Scripture, in and of itself, does nothing without an intelligence to try and decipher it. Try taking a bible and just dropping it off to some tribe in the Amazon. Based on James White's beliefs, he could come back the next day and that tribe will have been evangelized because scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith and no one or nothing else is needed. But we all know that would be crazy to believe that. The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." Some people will church hop until they feel like they found a church that interprets scripture the way they want it to be interpreted. If they can't, they just call themselves "non-denominational." Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It encourages the individual to accept the truth rather than "their truth." Now, I'll leave it up to those who read this to decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset, or a "what I ought to believe" mindset seems more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
"Sola Scriptura" or 'bible alone" unpacked means 'bible [of some translation of many available] + concordances + extensive studies in ancient languages, cultures, and histories + plus some learned [or assertive] people to fall back on for help... all leading to best-hypothesis about meaning and even then there are *significant* disputes"
Prior to FBC Livingston LA, I don't recall any youtube channels that featured James White videos with an open comment section. My sincerest thanks for FBA Livingston LA for this opportunity to comment on the teachings coming from one of the most insincere people in Protestant apologetics. From 0:00 to 33:57 I do not even know where to begin. I'd like to sincerely ask, has anyone, catholic or protestant, not by now heard this old goat tell the story of Scott Hahn getting mad at Jerry Matatics, or the Marian prayer booklet that JW is scandalized by and JMat said "I hope you can say that prayer with me." I could tell these stories by now I've heard them so many times. And it just isn't impressive. Did he beat JMat in a debate? Sure, maybe. So what? How did the last debate go? Not like the debate with Matatics? That';'s the real problem for JW. As for his reading of the Marian prayer booklet, he insists it is scandalous, but doesn't allow for any alternative readings. It is heretical/idolatrious because James White's points require it to be so. That's James White for you. Double down and insist on misreading your opponet despite having been corrected numerous times. That's why he's so mad at Akin, too. When he encounters a guy who just tells the unvarnished truth and doesn't play the caricature that JW needs them to be. "Jerome argued for the PVoBVM, but his arguments were really bad and so was his theology." You know, things look much the same from the other side. It's rather unsettling a man who possesses some competency and apptitude doesn't seem to be able to challenge his own assumptions. Ever. I think that part of JW's personality is best explained by his sister Patty bonds: web.archive.org/web/20120119233843/abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/p/out-of-darkness-rough-draft.html "_I can still feel it if I close my eyes and allow my mind to drift back to my little room upstairs in our farm house. I can still feel the collision of mixed emotions that seized my heart and soul all at once. I remember how hard it was to breathe and how I felt paralyzed inside and couldn’t respond in accord with the violent emotions that were literally tearing my soul apart He was my daddy, my Pastor, that man who all the people in our church and our neighborhood held in high esteem. He was the husband my mother spoke of with respect and reverence. He was the man who adored me and treated me like a princess. Now he was doing things that every fiber of my being knew was wrong; yet he was telling me it was right and natural. He was invading my body and my soul and yet I could not say a word or raise my hard to push him away. I felt powerless. My mind was screaming “NO” while my body submitted to his wishes I also remember looking at my mother and thinking, “Please, stop him. Protect me from him. Tell him no!” But even though I could tell she was not in full agreement with what he was doing, and though I know he hid most of what he did from her, she never refused to give him full reign. She stepped aside and let him destroy me. She chose loyalty to him over me._ and a bit further down in the text: "_[James White] said that he didn't care what I thought, that he believed we had wonderful parents. With that he rushed off to his room to hide his tears._" *There you go*
Are you not ashamed of telling everyone on here about what JW'S sister said regarding her family ?? What has that got to do with lecture ?? Shame on you!!
@@Romans5.1 No, I am not ashamed. Shame on me for what? I think it is perfectly reasonable to consider the emotional disposition of James White considering that logic has yet to succeed. He never enters a dialouge about these things in a conversation tone, despite having ample opportunity and resources. All he wants to do is double, triple, quadruple down, etc. I didn't write this, his sister wrote this. She's a Catholic nun now. If James White can't even give us a straight answer to "do you in fact _agree_ with this statement from the Trent?" then his followers and interlocutors alike deserve to know exactly kind of man he is. It's quite revealing to find out from Bonds what it was like to grow up with James White. I will reiterate: "_[James White] said that he didn't care what I thought, that he believed we had wonderful parents. With that he rushed off to his room to hide his tears._"
@@bersules8 I never said you wrote it but that you were quoting what his sister said about him! I still believe you’re totally out of order putting up that quote up !! I wonder how many skeletons you or anyone has in their closet??? I repeat Shame on you
@@BramptonAnglican While (imo) Catholics do quote from the church fathers, I wouldn't call it cherry picking. Cherry picking implies that you are leaving out evidence of the contrary to make your point (as James White does when he selectively quotes Augustine to justify his beliefs, when clearly when looking at the writings of Augustine *as a whole* it becomes clear that he and Augustine are not on the same page at all). The Church Fathers are objectively very theologically Catholic. I will say though I don't think this applies equally to Protestants across the board. I myself am Catholic, but I recognize that Lutherans and Anglicans share theology that is fairly close to Catholics, so the case (although it is one I disagree with) is a more plausible one from a theological point of view. James White however as a Calvinist Baptist really is overwhelmingly at odds with the Church Fathers, and so to use them as a way to bolster his argument is very much picking and choosing what to take and leave out from the Church Fathers writings in a way that misrepresents their views to look as if they are endorsing his, or in other words cherry picking.
Of course a New Creation aka Born Again person can & should LOVE others, but loving others doesn't mean the acceptance of ANTI Christ belief systems, even those who give a ALTERED Jesus OTHER than the one revealed in scripture ALONE, the Catholic Jesus needs his mom to help "save" and is subject to be supposed to be commanded from heaven by a fallen man to go into the mass elements, thus just these 2 facts prove the Jesus of the Harlot "church" is NOT the Jesus of the New Testament.
Nothing wrong with Marian prayer. Modern Christians have lost their fear of God. This prayer reminds Christians that in the end of time Jesus will judge the living and the dead. those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. In addition, this prayer reminds us that God intended Mary to have a significant role in our victory over sin. She is the New Ark of the Covenant. In OT, with Ark, victory and no Ark, defeat. In NT, with Mary, victory and no Mary, defeat. Mary is the instrument by which God ordained that we are to receive the mighty power of Jesus Christ our lord king and savior. At the wedding at Cana, it was through Mary that Jesus turned water into wine. If you want victory and to defeat sin and the devil, you need the New Ark of the Covenant in your spiritual life because the new Ark brings the presence of God in our midst. St Paul through St Luke reveals that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant by alluding to 2 Samuels. Lukan verses below are tied to 2 Samuel verses regarding the Ark. Mary, the Ark As Revealed in Mary’s Visit to Elizabeth Golden Box: Ark of the Old Covenant Mary: Ark of the New Covenant The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea (2 Sam. 6:1-11). Mary traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea (Luke 1:39). Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark (2 Sam. 6:14). John the Baptist - of priestly lineage - leapt in his mother’s womb at the approach of Mary (Luke 1:41). David asks, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Sam. 6:9). Elizabeth asks, “Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43). David shouts in the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:15). Elizabeth “exclaimed with a loud cry” in the presence of Mary (Luke 1:42). The ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months (2 Sam. 6:11). Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56). The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:11). The word blessed is used three times; surely the house was blessed by God (Luke 1:39-45). The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11). Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22). Furthermore, the Ark contained the 10 commandment, manna, and priestly staff of Aaron. Mary the New Ark, contained the word made flesh., the bread of life, and the eternal high Priest
This man is presentation doesn't make sense because he creates his own history by crucifying the Catholic church..bro based your arguments on historical facts
What he did was the epitome of cherry picking, otherwise the numerous opposing viewpoints would also have been presented. Something is clouding your judgement
@@patriotexx I think he showed plenty if not even more than enough viewpoints...not sure if you even listened. There is only so much one can do in a small amount of time,....besides, it only takes one single viewpoint when it comes to catholic belief to easily point out the flaws using scripture. Your assertion that my judgement is clouded is something you should consider for yourself. I'm not here to argue that is taken care of on the video itself. Either way I hope you have a wonderful day.
@@danielallen8944 There is cognitive dissonance here. I watched the video and its him repeating quotes after quotes and no explanation why it was done and what others views were or still are. Many things were done to solve a problem, like adding works to faith because many Christians would say all that is needed is believing and we know that demons also believe but tremble. It very one sided and opinionated, in my opinion lol. God bless
@@patriotexx call it what you want, your still making an assertion. The cross is not ours, it was Jesus' to bear for those who believe. Yes, James does repeat himself quite often. If you've watched on of his debates than you've practically seen them all....guess what else is consistent and never changing....the scriptures. If this so called cognitive dissonance disturbs you then go debate yourself. Good luck with that. I've got to get back. Take care.
The Catholics of old (as in those who actually believe what Rome has taught for centuries) would have said that we are not brothers. Hence why they executed true Christians for many years whenever they could get their hands on them. Let's just be honest about it.
Talk about straw-manning the Catholic position. He would never venture to make so many false claims in a debate, but you can tell he is relishing the opportunity to besmirch the Catholic (and so authentically Christian) faith in front of an audience which likely doesn’t know any better.
James White is the greatest Catholic apologist alive. He's converting so many to the Catholic Church one could wonder if he's not a Catholic himself.
God Bless you.
No, not this girl. He helped me get my head screwed on straight.
Converting to a religion to spite a man, is bizarre. This is about your soul.
Yep, helping to lead others to hell, real sad the compromise he has accepted through out the years
Jesus told Peter right before His ascension, Peter there are MANY things I need to tell you but you CANNOT understand them yet.., but I will send the Comforter.. and He will guide you into ALL Truth!! Tell me James, explain that please. 🙏🏻 ❤️
Mr white’s sister is also a catholic convert
And? My brother is a truly ambivalent agnostic despite the powerful testimony of a long-suffering, proselytizing, dying mother.
We can only keep our own souls, while we pop pop educate and pray for others.
48:00 and there it is folks, James W Lying about Catholic teaching. May the Lord have mercy on his soul.
Calvinists can bear false witness, they are the chosen elect. LOL
James White is anything but humble. He words aren't inspired by God.
So I’m confused (mixed in with a lot of disappointment), but In the spirit of seeking clarity I feel inclined to raise some issues.
The title of the Sermon series is “Loving our Catholic Neighbors”. I watched the White / Akin debates and I was very interested in hearing about interfaith relations, building rapport or at least respect as a bridge to evangelization from the Baptist perspective. This being especially important with the rise of aggressive secularism and modernity (or is it post modernity, or post-post modernity). Christendom writ large is threatened, and while we shouldn’t ignore faith differences, the defense of Christendom will require unity, or at least mutual understanding. Instead, in Night 1 we got an hour and a half of attacks on the Church and Papacy (although there appeared to be some grudging admiration of Muslims). Then night 2 materialized into a polemic against the Marian doctrines with more pot shots, praise of vandalism, calling the writings of a church doctor poison, and demeaning Maximilian Kolbe of all people.
Mind you, I could just be unaccustomed to Baptist methods of loving, but my assumption when the pastor introduced to talk with “because we love our Catholic friends and family we have to be able to effectively share this gospel of grace with them and show them how it is different from what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, again we're not trying to win arguments we are pleading with souls to trust in Jesus Christ” was that love and effective sharing would be involved. Instead we got a lot about how to win arguments, but charity and love appeared completely Lacking.
To be fair, maybe winning arguments was the point of the talk, and the objective was to drive home Dr. White’s issues with Catholicism, and lay out arguments against the Catholics, leaving it to the viewer to figure out the loving part, but that’s certainly not what I got from the video titles or the pastor’s introduction.
Wouldn’t it be more effective to point our common ground as a foundation for explaining differences, or pointing out the apparent virtues of the Catholics before getting into disagreements. An approach like “I think it’s beautiful that you honor the mother of Jesus, and without her fiat, salvation as it happened could not have taken place . . . However, some of the Catholic writings I've read seem problematic, could we talk about it so I can understand where you’re coming from” Then you can start pointing out problems through the lens of trying to learn what the Catholics believe, trying to create understanding rather than combativeness.
The example we get from Dr. White’s is telling a Catholic that his beads (possibly a rosary) is “an idol” and if “He needs a mediator with Jesus he doesn’t know Jesus”. White describes this as straightforward, and without context we can’t know for sure, but I think most of us would describe it as being a pretentious prick. Mind you, it’s one example, and anecdote is not data, but given the talk gives so few real life examples of Catholic / Protestant discussion (outside the innumerable debate references), that it’s one of the only practical application examples from the talks. If this “straightforward” approach is the approach advocated by Dr. White, it seems counter productive at best and actively destructive at worst. In any case, it seems incongruent with Jesus and His Apostles evangelization strategies, which mixed a firm defense of the faith with welcoming, bridge-building, and understanding.
Dr. White appears vindictive throughout both nights, both in his theology and generally when he derides Jimmy Akin, Catholic answers, and others. Calling out Jimmy Akin’s theology is acceptable, although I think it could be done more charitably when the objective is evangelization and not debate, but calling out his attire or his hat just seems mean spirited. Especially since Dr. White waiting for Akin to be gone so he couldn’t defend himself. Mind you, it’s possible Dr. White simply can’t help himself. Half the Presentation appeared to be him dragging other people down (from Catholics to Airlines) and puffing himself up talking about previous debates and street cred (but now I’m being uncharitable, so let’s switch gears). However, I don’t think such tactics would go very far when trying to reach across the Tiber or save souls.
Because of the proximity to the two Akin / White debates that preceded the talks, and Dr. White’s numerous pot shots at Akin, He can be used as an obvious counter example. Mind you, Jimmy Akin can come across as infantilizing and derisive in a “bless your heart” sort of way, something Louisianas are intimately familiar with. However, at least he appeared to be having a good time. He also appeared interested in acknowledging the piety of Protestants and creating common ground, even if only to bolster his points. His casualness is probably infuriating to academia. However, its fairly good branding ( he would probably point out the similar infuriation of the Sadduceces with the unschooled ordinary men of Galilee). I suppose I need to search youtube and see what he has to say on interfaith dialogue and Love, because he definitely appeared to be more inviting than Dr. White over the course of their time in Louisiana.
A more sober example is Maximilian Kolbe. Dr. White calls him (or at least his writings) demonic. Kolbe volunteered to die in place of a Jew in a concentration camp. He is one of the best known modern martyrs, and almost universally seen as an example of christian love. It seems, at least to me, that Kolbe would be an excellent interfaith bridge, he died in place of a Jew, showing that love spills the bounds of individual Faiths. Protestants could easily praise the piety and spiritual fortitude of Kolbe, using it to build rapport with the Catholics. Then we could charitablely question some of his writing, pointing out the issues, showing examples of similar virtues exhibited by Kolbe in protestant thinkers, and then expanding on those protestants’ views of Mary and theology. Dr. White’s use of Kolbe appears dismissive and uncharitable, especially when most Catholics know the “rest of the story” so to speak, leading them to dismiss any useful points the Protestant might make in the encounter.
So, to close, because this has already become too long to be useful. What was the objective of the talk, and what will people who watch this video come away with? If a catholic clicks a video entitled “Loving our Catholic Neighbors”, and is greeted with 3 hours of attacks on their faith, including popular saints, what will the takeaway be? Is it more likely that they will be pleasantly surprised by the love and charity of Protestants, and be made curious to learn more about the source of this love and charity; or will it entrench their negative stereotypes of protestants, and deter them from seeking good faith dialogue.
Conversely, if a protestant watches the video, what will they come away with? They will glean that they should know their faith (probably the best point made by Dr. White), but how will they spread that faith to Catholics? By being “straightforward”, by deriding their attire and calling their theology demonic and their rosaries idols. That doesn’t seem like an effective approach to me, but if that's what Dr. White suggests, I guess we’ll see how it plays out. I wonder what Jimmy Akin has to say on the subject?
This is an excellent post, thank you for the thoughts. I couldn’t agree with you more. There is no love or charity in James White’s. He has an I’m right and you’re wrong arrogance. He is clearly not interested in interfaith dialogue.
Dr White has helped the Catholic Church by converting many Protestants, especially Calvinists to Catholicism. Thank you Dr White.
White's sister converted to the Catholic Church, that might be playing a role in White's attitude.
Very thoughtful post! As a Catholic, we consider all baptized Christians to be our brothers and sisters in Christ. Many Protestants (like White) don’t think this way about Catholics. On one hand, I understand, as the default position of Christianity is for unity, so to remain outside the historical Church requires a very strong justification, which in it’s most severe form is outright condemnation of all Catholics. When the window is opened a crack by acknowledging that Catholics are indeed Christians, then all the types of inquiries you ask come into play (which MIGHT eventually lead one to contemplate joining the Catholic Church if questions are answered and the Catholic Church then becomes viewed as having a legitimate claim to having been founded by Christ). I think White wants to nip that in the bud with his extreme claims (like that Catholics “worship” Mary). Of course, in reality, there is nothing wrong with inquiry at all, it is healthy. Seeking the truth is always good - whether scientific, religious, or philosophical. But I think White sees this as a threat. His own sister converted to Catholicism. Even though Catholics are required to assent to Catholic teaching, it doesn’t mean we individually understand it all. And this of course is true of all Christians, as we may initially “accept” propositions on faith, but it takes more time for these to be written on our hearts. Initially we may just see a list of “nos” and don’t understand how God’s laws are oriented to perfect love of Him and neighbor and the immense dignity of each person created in His image. But as we submit to Him, our very being becomes transformed - by his love into one that loves as He does.
White wants to create a caricature of Catholicism that is not only easy to stand against but which COMPELS one to stand against it. Heck, if all he said was true then I certainly wouldn’t be a Catholic. We do have important differences from Protestants - but we share a belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for us that we might be united with Him and the Father. That is huge! This is a strong basis for sincere people to look for unity, while at the same time honestly discussing our differences. For Catholics, I’d say the single biggest difference is our belief that Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, is really and truly present in the Eucharist, He is here with us, becoming our very food. So personally, I suggest that any Protestant who wants to really understand Catholicism starts there by taking a deep dive into this belief. When one gets into the weeds of other beliefs first (like Marian doctrines of the immaculate conception and the assumption), that is a much more difficult path - kind of like an atheist picking around the edges at difficult passages in the Bible instead of focusing on the big picture of the Christian claim of who Jesus Christ is and why we need Him as our Savior.
Again, I enjoyed reading your post. It was spot-on. Peace.
Thank you for sharing, I agree with the sentiment. The title was clickbait and misleading as far as I see it. Some Protestants have hatred toward the Catholic church, which is understandable but often just misguided. Damning other Christians to hell for your faith to be true is just sad, they do this with other Protestant churches too sometimes with doctrinal issues. 2+ billion other Christians are wrong or going to hell or not even Christian, even if we believe the same core beliefs, no adding of statues or works or extra prayers allowed.
James White should listen to his heretic master: “There is no worse screen to block out the Spirit than confidence in our own intelligence.” -John Calvin
Absolutely. As they say, "why be smart, when you could be catholic"
That would make John Calvin’s master a heretic also, Saint Augustine
I am a Baptist Protestants and believe in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 about salvation. I know Catholic believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Catholic are saved by Christ too. I don't believe in OSAS either. That would be if two christian got divorce and remarry, this would be adultery. Adultery can't enter the Kingdom of God. The OSAS would say this is wrong but you can't lose your salvation so don't worry about it . This type of teaching is against the bible. Paul said 1 Corinthians 7:39 only the death of a spouse can someone be free to remarry. Catholic loves the LORD but different ways of showing it . We as Protestants and Catholic should be witness to people who worship idols and other FALSE gods.
Well put, when it comes right down to it we almost all share the very core and vital beliefs that make us all brothers and sisters in Christ. Catholics might say one must be Baptized, if Protestants dont they usually still do Baptize. Catholics have statues and images of saints, this is not idolatry as all glory and honor goes to God, no different from the cross itself or as Jews still use the star of David or Lion of Judah.
You’re putting the cart before the horse. A saved person who has any understanding of Scripture, wouldn’t put themselves in that state.
The more I listen to anti-catholic the more I feel closer to Christ and his Catholic Church. If there are so many protestant scholars pastors and historians who are becoming catholic there must be a reason
if this didnt make you insecure you wouldnt have the need to write this
Amen. But it does make me pray. It is sad how some criticize what they don’t understand. This Jesus that so many love (which I believe they do) invites all to an intimate communion with him in His Church. All graces flow from His Church - even those received by those not in full communion with the Church.
@@joeterp5615 this guy spent years of his life understanding it, it actually just might be contrary to the Bible
@@svenmuller1045 So you are willing to put your faith in James White’s opinions and interpretation of the Bible? Please reach beyond him if you want to understand Catholicism. He is badly misinforming people. We live in an age where you can go directly to sources and read for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches (or watch wonderful videos, like Scott Hahn videos). I invite you to do this. There are thousands - likely even millions - of men and women over the last two millennia who have spent as much or more time studying theology than James White. He uses rhetorical methods like mockery to try to “win” and to try to make Catholicism seem weird and foreign. He is just way off base. Please look into these things for yourself by going to many different sources, and try to do so without prejudice. Sadly, many Protestants have been taught many lies about Catholicism - so overcoming the built-in prejudice is not always easy. I was brought up in a very ecumenical Catholic home, so I love my Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ… but the lies from those who slander the Church sadden me.
@@svenmuller1045 I get where you are coming from. Cradle Catholic with a bit of Lutheranism mixed in there here. I’ve been where A lot of Catholics have been and heard what James White is saying. Am I infuriated with the sexual abuse crisis, you bet! Do I like everything that comes out of Pope Francis’s mouth? No. Has the church done horrible things in history? No doubt. It’s run by sinners after all. The Catholic Church has done a great job of shooting itself in the foot for a long time. I remember more catechesis from my first grade teacher who was a nun than any other teacher I had from second grade through high school combined!! However, I stay because of the Eucharist. Because of the beautiful example the saints have provided over the years in how to live even though we are all sinners in need of God’s Grace.
this guy still lives off the glory of his 90's debates and disregards all the modern-day access we have to information that exposes the flaws in his theology
His arguments are valid then and now lol what are you talking about, did you even watch both part debates? James white wasn’t given a single shred of evidence for Catholic theology by atkins at all!
Exactly where did James cherry pick?
Using scripture for different topics isn’t cherry picking. Nor is pointing out sentences in books that have been written using scripture to show how it’s wrong is what every Christian should be doing.
The Q and A was worthless as we could not hear the questions. Dr. White please repeat the questions in the future if there is no second mic.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
disappointed?
Thank you for hosting and thank you to Dr. White for sharing. Important message that is a blessing to many. God bless.
“Yes, the demonic bashing of Christ’s Mystical Body, the one true Church under the guise of charity was especially delicious, we salute you”-Screwtape
A Calvinist saying Catholics have strange teachings and explanations of scripture is hilarious. A Majority of your fellow Protestants would say the same about your beliefs my friend.
Oh the irony, I still think God made them for a reason. Their works should be directed towards Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Jews and Muslims or agnostics/atheists.
The doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like James White, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. The ironic thing about that critique is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the scripture. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority.
Scripture, in and of itself, does nothing without an intelligence to try and decipher it. Try taking a bible and just dropping it off to some tribe in the Amazon. Based on James White's beliefs, he could come back the next day and that tribe will have been evangelized because scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith and no one or nothing else is needed. But we all know that would be crazy to believe that.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." Some people will church hop until they feel like they found a church that interprets scripture the way they want it to be interpreted. If they can't, they just call themselves "non-denominational."
Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It encourages the individual to accept the truth rather than "their truth."
Now, I'll leave it up to those who read this to decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset, or a "what I ought to believe" mindset seems more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
"Sola Scriptura" or 'bible alone" unpacked means 'bible [of some translation of many available] + concordances + extensive studies in ancient languages, cultures, and histories + plus some learned [or assertive] people to fall back on for help... all leading to best-hypothesis about meaning and even then there are *significant* disputes"
He's too sarcastic and critical. He doesn't mention anything good.
Not nice
Prior to FBC Livingston LA, I don't recall any youtube channels that featured James White videos with an open comment section. My sincerest thanks for FBA Livingston LA for this opportunity to comment on the teachings coming from one of the most insincere people in Protestant apologetics.
From 0:00 to 33:57 I do not even know where to begin. I'd like to sincerely ask, has anyone, catholic or protestant, not by now heard this old goat tell the story of Scott Hahn getting mad at Jerry Matatics, or the Marian prayer booklet that JW is scandalized by and JMat said "I hope you can say that prayer with me." I could tell these stories by now I've heard them so many times. And it just isn't impressive. Did he beat JMat in a debate? Sure, maybe. So what? How did the last debate go? Not like the debate with Matatics? That';'s the real problem for JW.
As for his reading of the Marian prayer booklet, he insists it is scandalous, but doesn't allow for any alternative readings. It is heretical/idolatrious because James White's points require it to be so.
That's James White for you. Double down and insist on misreading your opponet despite having been corrected numerous times. That's why he's so mad at Akin, too. When he encounters a guy who just tells the unvarnished truth and doesn't play the caricature that JW needs them to be.
"Jerome argued for the PVoBVM, but his arguments were really bad and so was his theology."
You know, things look much the same from the other side. It's rather unsettling a man who possesses some competency and apptitude doesn't seem to be able to challenge his own assumptions. Ever.
I think that part of JW's personality is best explained by his sister Patty bonds:
web.archive.org/web/20120119233843/abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/p/out-of-darkness-rough-draft.html
"_I can still feel it if I close my eyes and allow my mind to drift back to my little room upstairs in our farm house. I can still feel the collision of mixed emotions that seized my heart and soul all at once. I remember how hard it was to breathe and how I felt paralyzed inside and couldn’t respond in accord with the violent emotions that were literally tearing my soul apart
He was my daddy, my Pastor, that man who all the people in our church and our neighborhood held in high esteem. He was the husband my mother spoke of with respect and reverence. He was the man who adored me and treated me like a princess. Now he was doing things that every fiber of my being knew was wrong; yet he was telling me it was right and natural. He was invading my body and my soul and yet I could not say a word or raise my hard to push him away. I felt powerless. My mind was screaming “NO” while my body submitted to his wishes
I also remember looking at my mother and thinking, “Please, stop him. Protect me from him. Tell him no!” But even though I could tell she was not in full agreement with what he was doing, and though I know he hid most of what he did from her, she never refused to give him full reign. She stepped aside and let him destroy me. She chose loyalty to him over me._
and a bit further down in the text:
"_[James White] said that he didn't care what I thought, that he believed we had wonderful parents. With that he rushed off to his room to hide his tears._"
*There you go*
Are you not ashamed of telling everyone on here about what JW'S sister said regarding her family ?? What has that got to do with lecture ?? Shame on you!!
You’re rotten.
@@Romans5.1 No, I am not ashamed. Shame on me for what? I think it is perfectly reasonable to consider the emotional disposition of James White considering that logic has yet to succeed. He never enters a dialouge about these things in a conversation tone, despite having ample opportunity and resources. All he wants to do is double, triple, quadruple down, etc.
I didn't write this, his sister wrote this. She's a Catholic nun now.
If James White can't even give us a straight answer to "do you in fact _agree_ with this statement from the Trent?" then his followers and interlocutors alike deserve to know exactly kind of man he is. It's quite revealing to find out from Bonds what it was like to grow up with James White. I will reiterate:
"_[James White] said that he didn't care what I thought, that he believed we had wonderful parents. With that he rushed off to his room to hide his tears._"
@@bersules8 I never said you wrote it but that you were quoting what his sister said about him! I still believe you’re totally out of order putting up that quote up !! I wonder how many skeletons you or anyone has in their closet??? I repeat Shame on you
James White cherry picking from the church fathers according to what aligns to his beliefs… classic.
Do you have the same view of Catholic answers when they do it?
The irony is rich in this one.
@@sonsofpolaris6102yes Catholics do also. You’re being disingenuous. Every church does.
@@BramptonAnglican While (imo) Catholics do quote from the church fathers, I wouldn't call it cherry picking. Cherry picking implies that you are leaving out evidence of the contrary to make your point (as James White does when he selectively quotes Augustine to justify his beliefs, when clearly when looking at the writings of Augustine *as a whole* it becomes clear that he and Augustine are not on the same page at all). The Church Fathers are objectively very theologically Catholic. I will say though I don't think this applies equally to Protestants across the board. I myself am Catholic, but I recognize that Lutherans and Anglicans share theology that is fairly close to Catholics, so the case (although it is one I disagree with) is a more plausible one from a theological point of view. James White however as a Calvinist Baptist really is overwhelmingly at odds with the Church Fathers, and so to use them as a way to bolster his argument is very much picking and choosing what to take and leave out from the Church Fathers writings in a way that misrepresents their views to look as if they are endorsing his, or in other words cherry picking.
@@AK-ZL1 exactly
Always enjoy learning from Dr White
What did you learn?
@@bersules8probably not very much
I had so many great conversations last time. Great video James
>so many great conversations
A lot of hot air, not much substance.
@@bersules8 I can't help that others won't submit to the authority of the word of God.
Maximilian Kolbe made a GRAVE error. Oh my gosh, how awful.
Of course a New Creation aka Born Again person can & should LOVE others, but loving others doesn't mean the acceptance of ANTI Christ belief systems, even those who give a ALTERED Jesus OTHER than the one revealed in scripture ALONE, the Catholic Jesus needs his mom to help "save" and is subject to be supposed to be commanded from heaven by a fallen man to go into the mass elements, thus just these 2 facts prove the Jesus of the Harlot "church" is NOT the Jesus of the New Testament.
I think White should teach Protestant theology and not spend his time bashing other theologies.
Nothing wrong with Marian prayer. Modern Christians have lost their fear of God. This prayer reminds Christians that in the end of time Jesus will judge the living and the dead. those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
In addition, this prayer reminds us that God intended Mary to have a significant role in our victory over sin. She is the New Ark of the Covenant. In OT, with Ark, victory and no Ark, defeat. In NT, with Mary, victory and no Mary, defeat. Mary is the instrument by which God ordained that we are to receive the mighty power of Jesus Christ our lord king and savior.
At the wedding at Cana, it was through Mary that Jesus turned water into wine.
If you want victory and to defeat sin and the devil, you need the New Ark of the Covenant in your spiritual life because the new Ark brings the presence of God in our midst.
St Paul through St Luke reveals that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant by alluding to 2 Samuels. Lukan verses below are tied to 2 Samuel verses regarding the Ark.
Mary, the Ark As Revealed in Mary’s Visit to Elizabeth
Golden Box: Ark of the Old Covenant Mary: Ark of the New Covenant
The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea (2 Sam. 6:1-11). Mary traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea (Luke 1:39).
Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark (2 Sam. 6:14). John the Baptist - of priestly lineage - leapt in his mother’s womb at the approach of Mary (Luke 1:41).
David asks, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Sam. 6:9). Elizabeth asks, “Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43).
David shouts in the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:15). Elizabeth “exclaimed with a loud cry” in the presence of Mary (Luke 1:42).
The ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months (2 Sam. 6:11). Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56).
The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:11). The word blessed is used three times; surely the house was blessed by God (Luke 1:39-45).
The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11). Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22).
Furthermore, the Ark contained the 10 commandment, manna, and priestly staff of Aaron. Mary the New Ark, contained the word made flesh., the bread of life, and the eternal high Priest
Biggest Catholic hater of all time. Someone grab Patrick Madrid or Trent Horn on this man
This man is presentation doesn't make sense because he creates his own history by crucifying the Catholic church..bro based your arguments on historical facts
Cherry Picks??….do you even read church history?…. Mean he is a church history professor so I doubt he cherry picks anything….classic
What he did was the epitome of cherry picking, otherwise the numerous opposing viewpoints would also have been presented. Something is clouding your judgement
@@patriotexx I think he showed plenty if not even more than enough viewpoints...not sure if you even listened. There is only so much one can do in a small amount of time,....besides, it only takes one single viewpoint when it comes to catholic belief to easily point out the flaws using scripture. Your assertion that my judgement is clouded is something you should consider for yourself. I'm not here to argue that is taken care of on the video itself. Either way I hope you have a wonderful day.
@@danielallen8944 There is cognitive dissonance here. I watched the video and its him repeating quotes after quotes and no explanation why it was done and what others views were or still are. Many things were done to solve a problem, like adding works to faith because many Christians would say all that is needed is believing and we know that demons also believe but tremble. It very one sided and opinionated, in my opinion lol. God bless
@@patriotexx call it what you want, your still making an assertion. The cross is not ours, it was Jesus' to bear for those who believe. Yes, James does repeat himself quite often. If you've watched on of his debates than you've practically seen them all....guess what else is consistent and never changing....the scriptures. If this so called cognitive dissonance disturbs you then go debate yourself. Good luck with that. I've got to get back. Take care.
As in, not brothers in Christ.
Very uncharitable title.
Different religion different Christ. One is man centered the other is God centered. To God be the glory for the great things He has done.
@@basshawgBearing false witness is a sin.
Neighbors and friends, to be fair though you may be one who is saved in spite of what Rome teaches.
The Catholics of old (as in those who actually believe what Rome has taught for centuries) would have said that we are not brothers. Hence why they executed true Christians for many years whenever they could get their hands on them. Let's just be honest about it.
@@douglasmcnay644 You're confusing John Calvin persecuting people.
Talk about straw-manning the Catholic position. He would never venture to make so many false claims in a debate, but you can tell he is relishing the opportunity to besmirch the Catholic (and so authentically Christian) faith in front of an audience which likely doesn’t know any better.