Consumers: "We need a rifle with the familiar ergonomics of the AR15; uses a gas piston system like an AK/AR18; can switch calibers with only an allen key; uses AR15/AR10 mags; and resembles what an FN SCAR would look like IF it was good looking." Finns: "Yes ;) " God, I love the Finns.
I don't really see the benefit of doing a conversion like that in field, but it's definitely interesting to have that potential. That 'employee' seems like an ex-erikoisjääkärikomppania or something similar. The rifle seems robust. I'd recommend reshaping the cocking handle . Not a folding handle because it definitely aids in bracing the hand. But maybe a curved one for better ergonomics. Or , may be just add a foregrip ?
@@dscrappygolani7981 Field conversion is not the point (IRL, if that was an issued piece of kit, that would be done by an armorer at the depot), getting access to two calibers in a single rifle/chassis with the same feel and manual of arms, and some pieces of kit is. It has been designed with the Finnish reservists in mind and I think it fills that role quite wonderfully. Haven't really seen that much made of "in the field" caliber conversions. There have been few companies that have had a stab at that (If I am not totally wrong LWRCI R.E.P.R. was kind of riding on that premise when in development but it ended up being a single caliber rifle offered in multiple calibers in the end). In military/LEO use... from what I have gathered, it just ends up being something that is really not that useful or practical in real life for the majority of use cases/applications. Can't comment on the background of the "employee" :D
@@manalainen that makes sense ; at least in theory. And it does seem like a good rifle/carbine... Dare we call a .308 firearm a carbine? As for the "employee"😁... Well, he seems pretty good at his job. All the best to him, and the design team. 👍
@@dscrappygolani7981 also many markets allow a limited number of firearms to owned. This kind of thing can allow more “guns” without breaking these laws.
@@john-paulsilke893 that is debatable considering either or both have full auto capability because of the shared fire control group. That's a whole different ball of wax right there! Your theory may apply if it's converted to semi auto only though.
Looks incredibly easy to assemble and dissasemble, that magwell swapping system is awesome too!...also 223/308 means that it also should be easy to make into 300 BLK, 6.5 Creed, and others as well
The enthusiastic ejection pattern has me pretty much sold on it already. I love guns that fling it into the next county. My Ljungman is the best for enthusiastic ejection.
Really clever engineering to get that simple & rapid calibre change. It's certainly not going to be a cheap gun, but if that versatility is what you want/need then it's got to be near the top of the pack.
Or if you life in a country in Europe were you have a specific amount of guns you can get per permission card and where conversion kids aren't treated as 2 different guns but 1, which is the case in many of them.
That's a very impressive design. looks like they started with 308 then scaled down to 223. I love how they kept the conversion down to 4 easy to change parts. What would be really interesting is if they did a 7.62x39 conversion with an AK magwell
Actually, whole idea started first in 7.62x39 with AK mags, and first working prototype came around 2016. Making 223 and 308 first is probably only for getting a rifle ready and to test that caliber conversion works as should. I guess, that more calibers will be available if the rifle sells well enough. As mentioned above, at least all calibers related to 223 and 308 should be pretty easy to convert.
@@OnTe88 IIRC, this gun was/is either competing or becoming the new rifle for the Finnish Defense force (I could be wrong tho). FDF uses the RK series of rifles, which use the 7.62x39, but now since Finland has joined NATO and will probably have to standardize their rifles/calibers, they'll probably change to the 7.62x51 NATO. Which is probably the reason that the KAR-21 doesn't take AK ammo/mags anymore. Could be wrong though, since I'm mostly just speculating. Edit: yea, it was rivaling for a new rifle for the FDF but lost to SAKO
Yeah they tried to get this to become Finland's next military assault rifle but the FDF chose Sako's new (assault) rifle family. Those are also available in both 7,62x51 and 5,56x45 and possibly other calibers as well, but without the option to switch calibers.
That upper receiver looks rad, and comparability on buffer tube/stock setups and grips with ars is pretty sick. Correct me if I'm wrong but those barrels are free floating as well. Wait that safety-bolt lock feature is sick too.
@@BlokeontheRange Have you experienced the Springfield M1a "Scout" model with 18" barrel? With plastic stock it weighs around 8 lb, and yet is very soft shooting. Its muzzle brake seems rather effective, compared to the original M14 flash hider. If I can post links, I will add them as replies to my comment. If they don't show, then links are disabled...
Nice design. All metal aesthetic reminds me of STG, very badass. Cocking system reminiscent of G3, G36 & AAA/leader, very original way of doing it though. Bolt cam very AK, FNC or even SIG. Ejector and rails super AK. Bolt with its extractor slot makes me think of the Daewoo K2. Gas piston reminds me of the FAL. Controls of course very AR. Recoil spring reminds me of Ak & FNC. Multi caliber, M-lock, adjustable stock, can take suppressor, full length pic rail. 👍
Frankly what was most impressive for me was the machining quality. Clearly "inspired" by other successful designs.. I really hope they can import these to the states.
That .308 looks good. Would be interesting to see how it does in various calibers, 6.5mm might be a sweet spot between ballistics and recoil management. A .338 or .358 might have a hunting application, the rifle isn't much heavier than many bolt action sporting rifles.
I have two ar10s that I love. A few multi cal mutt rifles. This interests me but every time I spend the money on a multi cal rifle the caliber exchange kits are either never made or rarely in stock. Thanks for bringing us along.
Definitely thinking they're going to have to put a screw in each side of the top of the barrel extension to get accuracy out of it. My guess is that barrel rocks laterally with only being held in by a recoil lug
Interesting design, but I do have to wonder if there is an actual demand for multi caliber guns. Its a neat concept that everyone talks about, but dont seem to utilize once they actually get the gun.
Depends on legal stuff in different countries. Some countries limit the number of guns you can have but don't count one system with two different barrels as two guns. So you get two calibers in one gun.
well I´m about half way in the video, and yet I say, I like what I see and hear. it sounds like every piece of that thing is solid and or unbreakable i very much enjoy this metalic kla-klink while charging it and i see it has a metal receiver, which i think gives it strengh (again that is what i feel seeing and hearing it) and besides. i only take rifles to the range, so i am not afrait of the weight of it, especialy because this thing is screaming to get afixed a bipod and used to burn trou lots of expansive ammo for pure enjoyment! now let´s see the second half of that vid. oh and thanks bloke for showing that.
21:35 How many rounds were fired prior to that? 1 mag? Seems pretty excessive. Sounds like the gun is rattling every move you make, are those pre-production models or? Your honest opinion with the .223, recoil vs DI AR-15?
I heard that also. I think it was the charging handle that rattled there, could be fixed by tensioning it with a spring of some sort. The heating up of parts around where the gases are vented out is a thing that plaques most piston-driven systems that have a wrap-around aluminium handguard/forend. There are ways to mitigate it to a degree but all come with caveats/cons of their own, for example: - increasing the dimensions of the handguard so there is more space between the barrel and the handguard, - placing some heat-shielding there either internally (if space allows) or externally, - changing the path the gases travel, - changing the material to something that is less or non heat-conductive like carbon fiber etc.
Nothing shocked me as being particularly rattly, you should try an old-school pressed steel rifle some time! Yes, they're pre-production models and are likely to be changed slightly before final production. Recoil impulse was similar to a DI AR-15, and less punchy than Jari's piston AR-15.
@@jordanwalsh1691 Its already attracted my attention. So far I've been using the WK-180C, which, excellent gun, despite some of the hate the early manufacturing batches had, but I'd love to get some additional options for semi-auto here.
@@Killzoneguy117 Glad to hear that gun's doing well for you/ I might be looking at one soon if I can figure out something fun to mod it into. One of the issues I'm worried about long term is that if the government makes semiautos illegal a few models at a time, and ownership rates drop, it will become much easier for them to ban all semis. With that in mind every model on the market is a small victory.
This rifle seems to be really nice, short stroke piston, fixed ejector, fal style trigger spring, the extractor seems to have a really strong spring and a good grip, I would buy it,
A folding stock for the countries that allow the overall length would be a plus for transport and storage. And probably the best marketing move for US market if they ever go there.
Finally my dream has come true! Now if I can just get a deagle to load those revolver "slug" rounds for bears I can just rely on 2 guns for all my wilderness adventures haha.
There is a upcoming finnish defence forces assault rifle replacement contract in the next decade. The current inventory is 600000+ rifles. Sako/beretta finland are also developing a competitor. Sako/beretta finland are also developing a .308 dmr for the defence forces SVD replacement contract. This could be eligible for both depending on the accuracy.
Regarding zero retention following a barrel removal/reassembly, I wonder how well the retention is if the bolts are tightened to a particular torque. For comparison, the DT MDR uses a vise-like trunnion which is incidentally also tightened with a pair of 5mm allen head bolts torqued to 9Nm. If re-torqued properly, the center of a 5 shot group shot prone, pack supported stays within a 2.5cm by 2.5cm square at 25m, which is way enough for a battle zero. I've even put corresponding punch marks on the bolt heads of mine at this point. So perhaps it would be interesting to see that kind of comparison for the KAR-21. I do wonder, does torquing the bolts only eliminate play between the indexing piece and the barrel, or is there also some kind of alignment between the receiver/trunion and the indexing piece?
It is a very well-made gun IMO, but I don't like the allen screws on that barrel-retaining piece. I am sure they will come up with a better solution sooner or later. I would prefer something like two screws with big textured heads and a simple retaining device when fully tightened. That way you can simply tighten or losen them with your hands - without any tool.
You're not going to get 12 Nm of torque without a tool with a handle unless you're the strongest man in the world or something. Or then the bolt heads would have to be wider than the gun itself. Since you need to zero the optic anyways after a caliber switch, there's no reason for the barrel switch to be doable in the field without tools. It's going to be a bit of an operation anyways due to the re-zeroing.
Looks like a very well thought-out rifle, but to me it sounds horribly clanky. But don't take me too seriously as I collect sinhle-shot rifles for particularly that reason. Also due to our stupid laws here, a caliber-change option is of no interest to me personally. I do have a difficult question for you: considering .223 only, which do you prefer, this or the WWSD?
@@314299 yeah, I've seen one upper that was unusable after 40000 rounds, but if this rifle becomes next service rifle for Finland, it needs to last forever, at least 60 years like RK62 has, besides conscripts are the most destructive force on earth to issued equipment.
I wonder how it compares to the SCAR 17s. There's also the 20s in 308 or 6.5 creedmoor, a cartridge I'm starting to get interested in, it's similar to 6.5x55 Mauser but in a 308 length.
First off, the caliber swap while using standard mags is awesome. Well done. Unfortunately, I see 2 glaring issues. 1) The handguard is too short. It needs to be at least 3 inches longer. 2) Changing caliber requires re-zero. If you can address the re-zero issue, this would be the greatest leap in rifle design this century. Make the pic rail attach to the barrel, so the optic moves with the barrel when you swap it out. And please give us more real estate for all of our gadgets, as well as, our hand. If you add a light and laser with pressure switch(s), there will be no place left for your hand with that charging handle arrangement. This is one of the main issues with the G3. That stupid charging handle placement ruins the ability to set up the tacticool crap we want to attach to our handguard, while leaving space for us to grip the rifle. We want to put our hand where comfortable, while all of our gizmos’ controls mount within reach of our fingers, without compromise. When your competition is the AR platform, ergonomics will make or break your design. Short handguards are a no go.
I can see the appeal (even if it would probably be instabanned in Canada), but I'd be concerned about having a stupidly heavy .223 configuration. I expect the .308 (or 6.5 CM) might be the most popular configuration and most user would leave it at that.
So I'll take one in 6.5x47. They should make a "fixed" caliber geared towards accuracy and get on export. The US could help them pay their bills for a while if they worked with someone stateside to finish the fiddly legal bits. While there are already some options for large caliber "battle rifle" rifles, most are older military designs. But if it could be built to be precise with that neat design, monolithic upper half, aftermarket stock and grip access, etc. it might be a good AR10/Scar competitor. Also impressive that recoil impulse was with bird cage style flash hider. With a brake it would likely not move.
I prefer this over colts version for sure, was it the 901? 🤔 having the same weight (when empty atleast) makes a big difference for training on one platform, plus it looks a folding stock recoil trunion could easily be added, (not even possible on colts version of course) i also like the non reciprocating charging handle, and bolt/gas system/ejection/safety designs 👍Im not a big fan of ambi safeties as long as its reversible, and would prefer an ambi bolt catch and release. Thanks for the video 👍
Looks like both of you could have benefited from sliding the buttstock a nodge or two longer. But it was new weapon for both of you then. With longer butt more ergonomy and even less recoil disturbance and barrel rise, certainly.
this is actually a really cool rifle idea. funnily enough reminds me a lot of the Arma 3 MX but that's just me feeling obligated to make a reference :P little bit of Cerakote and a Magpul UBR stock and it's cosplay ready
Apologies if I've missed it, but what's the approximate weight of the rifle? My experience with these full aluminium upper rifles is that they tend to be excessively heavy, and badly balanced through using an AR-15 stock (which I get for compatibility) but without a buffer etc weighing the back end down a little. I'm specifically thinking of a different rifle, but this reminds me of it quite a bit.
@@BlokeontheRange D'oh! Thanks Bloke, it's less than I expected even if it's not quite what I'd hope for, but what is life without something or other to whinge about!
Interesting engineering, zero retaining optic changes would make a big difference. Not sure about not being able to load with safety on, sure the AR platform has its own different issue but I think for a military firearm, it would be good to be able to make ready with the safety on
It would indeed be awesome if the rifle retained zero when swapping between calibers. Hmmm, I am wondering if a different design of the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and frame/receiver could to the trick? So instead of a square'ish block that relies on the recoil lug it would be further keyed somehow so that it mates the same every time...
@@traildogisla it has the AK manual of arms. Really useful for a conscript force that has used the AK from the 1960's onwards. What I'm saying is that they are going for the finnish defence forces assault rifle replacement that's coming up in the next decade. Not having to retrain the reserve on a different manual of arms is likely to be a benefit in the competition. Btw the current finnish inventory is 600000+ rifles.
Good on them for design a nice rifle, but it isn’t really anything new. Colt had a similar rifle “multi caliber rifle” (LE901), and the SCAR-H can be switched to 5.56 as well. I bet they will have success in Europe or locally in Finland/Sweden, but I will cannot see this rifle getting across the pond to the USA.
You are right, it does not bring anything new to the market, at least nothing that will appeal to potential military buyers. It is little too heavy and the company is too small to be viable for military contracts.
@@BlokeontheRange thanks Mike. I appreciate the info. My savings does not. If you gt back to the States and visit Ian and Karl, let me know. Haven't shot 2GACM but I'd be willing to saddle up again
@@BlokeontheRange since you’ve actually handled it I’m inclined to agree but on video it looks like the same placement. I even had to get my AR out to double-check.
Ragnar Lothbrok, Floki, and Rollo discuss weapons technology with King Ecbert, about 800CE, colorized.
Consumers:
"We need a rifle with the familiar ergonomics of the AR15; uses a gas piston system like an AK/AR18; can switch calibers with only an allen key; uses AR15/AR10 mags; and resembles what an FN SCAR would look like IF it was good looking."
Finns:
"Yes ;) "
God, I love the Finns.
USA: AR IS BEST!!!!
Russia: NO AK IS THE BEST
Finland: Pidä olutta...
Piäs mun kaljaa
This seems like a well engineered rifle, no flab anywhere, but not flimsy either!
For a first self-loading rifle design, especially for a multi-caliber one, that is pretty awesome. Job well done, I’d say.
I don't really see the benefit of doing a conversion like that in field, but it's definitely interesting to have that potential. That 'employee' seems like an ex-erikoisjääkärikomppania or something similar. The rifle seems robust. I'd recommend reshaping the cocking handle . Not a folding handle because it definitely aids in bracing the hand. But maybe a curved one for better ergonomics. Or , may be just add a foregrip ?
@@dscrappygolani7981 Field conversion is not the point (IRL, if that was an issued piece of kit, that would be done by an armorer at the depot), getting access to two calibers in a single rifle/chassis with the same feel and manual of arms, and some pieces of kit is. It has been designed with the Finnish reservists in mind and I think it fills that role quite wonderfully.
Haven't really seen that much made of "in the field" caliber conversions. There have been few companies that have had a stab at that (If I am not totally wrong LWRCI R.E.P.R. was kind of riding on that premise when in development but it ended up being a single caliber rifle offered in multiple calibers in the end).
In military/LEO use... from what I have gathered, it just ends up being something that is really not that useful or practical in real life for the majority of use cases/applications.
Can't comment on the background of the "employee" :D
@@manalainen that makes sense ; at least in theory. And it does seem like a good rifle/carbine... Dare we call a .308 firearm a carbine? As for the "employee"😁... Well, he seems pretty good at his job. All the best to him, and the design team. 👍
@@dscrappygolani7981 also many markets allow a limited number of firearms to owned. This kind of thing can allow more “guns” without breaking these laws.
@@john-paulsilke893 that is debatable considering either or both have full auto capability because of the shared fire control group. That's a whole different ball of wax right there! Your theory may apply if it's converted to semi auto only though.
Looks incredibly easy to assemble and dissasemble, that magwell swapping system is awesome too!...also 223/308 means that it also should be easy to make into 300 BLK, 6.5 Creed, and others as well
The enthusiastic ejection pattern has me pretty much sold on it already. I love guns that fling it into the next county. My Ljungman is the best for enthusiastic ejection.
Try a french gendarmerie converted 7,62x51 mas 49-56, mine launches brass 6m in the air...
@@levergatRapha Even in the original 7.5x54 French it flings the brass far.
@@michaelhatfield3430 absolutely, the gas system is brutal on those
Fixed ejector working it's magic.
Let's get this rifle to more gun channels for review to increase exposure, I would love to see this platform succeed.
Really clever engineering to get that simple & rapid calibre change. It's certainly not going to be a cheap gun, but if that versatility is what you want/need then it's got to be near the top of the pack.
Or if you life in a country in Europe were you have a specific amount of guns you can get per permission card and where conversion kids aren't treated as 2 different guns but 1, which is the case in many of them.
That's a very impressive design. looks like they started with 308 then scaled down to 223. I love how they kept the conversion down to 4 easy to change parts.
What would be really interesting is if they did a 7.62x39 conversion with an AK magwell
Actually, whole idea started first in 7.62x39 with AK mags, and first working prototype came around 2016. Making 223 and 308 first is probably only for getting a rifle ready and to test that caliber conversion works as should. I guess, that more calibers will be available if the rifle sells well enough. As mentioned above, at least all calibers related to 223 and 308 should be pretty easy to convert.
@@OnTe88 IIRC, this gun was/is either competing or becoming the new rifle for the Finnish Defense force (I could be wrong tho). FDF uses the RK series of rifles, which use the 7.62x39, but now since Finland has joined NATO and will probably have to standardize their rifles/calibers, they'll probably change to the 7.62x51 NATO. Which is probably the reason that the KAR-21 doesn't take AK ammo/mags anymore.
Could be wrong though, since I'm mostly just speculating.
Edit: yea, it was rivaling for a new rifle for the FDF but lost to SAKO
I think this is cool as hell! I would love to see this in us!
The safety gripe. Welcome to an issue that left handed people have been dealing with the whole time. You just get used to it.
The universal “gun smithing”tool is only $40. Buy a Dremel. 🤣
Afaik they also have a full auto variant for military sales and hopefully some day we get a video of that one too.
Can confirm the full auto capability, these had the giggle switch indeed :)
That was full auto version on the video. ;)
Yeah they tried to get this to become Finland's next military assault rifle but the FDF chose Sako's new (assault) rifle family. Those are also available in both 7,62x51 and 5,56x45 and possibly other calibers as well, but without the option to switch calibers.
"AR cannot be put on safe with the hammer down"
laughs in SLT-1
Or a Recluse trigger...
@@7hart2 we don't have Rekluses in Switzerland yet but I got an SLT-1 recently.
Very cool to see some new domestic production.
Fixed ejector, big extractor. I like it.
That upper receiver looks rad, and comparability on buffer tube/stock setups and grips with ars is pretty sick. Correct me if I'm wrong but those barrels are free floating as well. Wait that safety-bolt lock feature is sick too.
How is it free floating with the gas system on it? You could call the handguard free floating.
Bloke, when you shot the .308 offhand it seemed to recoil like a Garand, with a shove rather than a slap. Not bad for an 8 lb rifle.
Yup. That was the most impressive part of the whole thing, amazing for a rifle so light.
@@BlokeontheRange Have you experienced the Springfield M1a "Scout" model with 18" barrel? With plastic stock it weighs around 8 lb, and yet is very soft shooting. Its muzzle brake seems rather effective, compared to the original M14 flash hider.
If I can post links, I will add them as replies to my comment. If they don't show, then links are disabled...
RUclips links added in another comment...
I guess only I can see the links I posted. It was Hickock 45 and "an ordinary guy" shooting M1a Scout rifles. Very soft recoiling.
@@rickoshea8138 Were you posting more than one link in a single comment? That rarely works.
Nice design.
All metal aesthetic reminds me of STG, very badass.
Cocking system reminiscent of G3, G36 & AAA/leader, very original way of doing it though.
Bolt cam very AK, FNC or even SIG.
Ejector and rails super AK.
Bolt with its extractor slot makes me think of the Daewoo K2.
Gas piston reminds me of the FAL.
Controls of course very AR.
Recoil spring reminds me of Ak & FNC.
Multi caliber, M-lock, adjustable stock, can take suppressor, full length pic rail. 👍
Frankly what was most impressive for me was the machining quality. Clearly "inspired" by other successful designs.. I really hope they can import these to the states.
That .308 looks good. Would be interesting to see how it does in various calibers, 6.5mm might be a sweet spot between ballistics and recoil management. A .338 or .358 might have a hunting application, the rifle isn't much heavier than many bolt action sporting rifles.
It looked like the CEO has Finland shaped sideburns. Nice.
Really enjoyed watching that and hearing about the small differences between different rifles..
Thank you, Bloke! Very cool!
That's a really good mike
That has a very nice sounding note to it
I have two ar10s that I love. A few multi cal mutt rifles. This interests me but every time I spend the money on a multi cal rifle the caliber exchange kits are either never made or rarely in stock. Thanks for bringing us along.
When it comes to guns,
Finland rocks!
I always find that the side grip like Kari's just looks so aggressive. Compared to Bloke's more classic grip.
That carrier group looks interesting, nice job. :-)
Definitely thinking they're going to have to put a screw in each side of the top of the barrel extension to get accuracy out of it. My guess is that barrel rocks laterally with only being held in by a recoil lug
I would have to buy 2 and have one set up for .308 and the other in .223 and use the caliber changing option for a future sales incentive.
Interesting design, but I do have to wonder if there is an actual demand for multi caliber guns. Its a neat concept that everyone talks about, but dont seem to utilize once they actually get the gun.
Depends on legal stuff in different countries. Some countries limit the number of guns you can have but don't count one system with two different barrels as two guns. So you get two calibers in one gun.
well I´m about half way in the video, and yet I say, I like what I see and hear.
it sounds like every piece of that thing is solid and or unbreakable i very much enjoy this metalic kla-klink while charging it and i see it has a metal receiver, which i think gives it strengh (again that is what i feel seeing and hearing it)
and besides. i only take rifles to the range, so i am not afrait of the weight of it, especialy because this thing is screaming to get afixed a bipod and used to burn trou lots of expansive ammo for pure enjoyment!
now let´s see the second half of that vid.
oh and thanks bloke for showing that.
Reminds Me of the American Robinson Armament XCR-L/XCR-M combined. Very Nice. I wish I could have one here in the states.
You can buy weapons from Finland to USA but it do take tons of paperwork.
the light piston probably helps with lowering felt recoil in comparison to say an Ak.
21:35 How many rounds were fired prior to that? 1 mag? Seems pretty excessive.
Sounds like the gun is rattling every move you make, are those pre-production models or?
Your honest opinion with the .223, recoil vs DI AR-15?
I heard that also. I think it was the charging handle that rattled there, could be fixed by tensioning it with a spring of some sort.
The heating up of parts around where the gases are vented out is a thing that plaques most piston-driven systems that have a wrap-around aluminium handguard/forend. There are ways to mitigate it to a degree but all come with caveats/cons of their own, for example:
- increasing the dimensions of the handguard so there is more space between the barrel and the handguard,
- placing some heat-shielding there either internally (if space allows) or externally,
- changing the path the gases travel,
- changing the material to something that is less or non heat-conductive like carbon fiber etc.
Nothing shocked me as being particularly rattly, you should try an old-school pressed steel rifle some time! Yes, they're pre-production models and are likely to be changed slightly before final production. Recoil impulse was similar to a DI AR-15, and less punchy than Jari's piston AR-15.
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks for the reply.
Sell it to Canada! Wish the designers all the best from north here! Hope it does well
same
I agree, any semiauto which can legally be sold here will definitely attract attention.
@@jordanwalsh1691 Its already attracted my attention. So far I've been using the WK-180C, which, excellent gun, despite some of the hate the early manufacturing batches had, but I'd love to get some additional options for semi-auto here.
@@Killzoneguy117 Glad to hear that gun's doing well for you/ I might be looking at one soon if I can figure out something fun to mod it into.
One of the issues I'm worried about long term is that if the government makes semiautos illegal a few models at a time, and ownership rates drop, it will become much easier for them to ban all semis. With that in mind every model on the market is a small victory.
Always interesting to see into the current European gun world!
This rifle seems to be really nice, short stroke piston, fixed ejector, fal style trigger spring, the extractor seems to have a really strong spring and a good grip, I would buy it,
A folding stock for the countries that allow the overall length would be a plus for transport and storage. And probably the best marketing move for US market if they ever go there.
Finally my dream has come true! Now if I can just get a deagle to load those revolver "slug" rounds for bears I can just rely on 2 guns for all my wilderness adventures haha.
definitely a good job for their entry into the market 👍🏻
8.23 lbs is on the light end (but not ultra light) for an AR 10 build. So many AR10 BCG and buffer systems are excessively heavy.
Really nice gun. Well done guys.
This thing looks badass
very interesting.
these lads' work should be followed closely.
are they planning a multi calibre pistol too?
This looks a very interesting weapon.
Best of both?
Certainly seems it.
Now this is the future of modular firearms technically.
Interesting, but is there enough market? Geoff Who notes the Colt is no longer available and other convertibles have disappeared in the US of A.
There is a upcoming finnish defence forces assault rifle replacement contract in the next decade. The current inventory is 600000+ rifles. Sako/beretta finland are also developing a competitor. Sako/beretta finland are also developing a .308 dmr for the defence forces SVD replacement contract. This could be eligible for both depending on the accuracy.
Regarding zero retention following a barrel removal/reassembly, I wonder how well the retention is if the bolts are tightened to a particular torque.
For comparison, the DT MDR uses a vise-like trunnion which is incidentally also tightened with a pair of 5mm allen head bolts torqued to 9Nm. If re-torqued properly, the center of a 5 shot group shot prone, pack supported stays within a 2.5cm by 2.5cm square at 25m, which is way enough for a battle zero. I've even put corresponding punch marks on the bolt heads of mine at this point.
So perhaps it would be interesting to see that kind of comparison for the KAR-21.
I do wonder, does torquing the bolts only eliminate play between the indexing piece and the barrel, or is there also some kind of alignment between the receiver/trunion and the indexing piece?
That will be 15cm@150m.
26:07 Pretty close to the 2.5x increase in muzzle energy, so this checks out
Great review of the rifle system from Ensio Firearms! Check out our page as well for more KAR-21 content.
It is a very well-made gun IMO, but I don't like the allen screws on that barrel-retaining piece. I am sure they will come up with a better solution sooner or later.
I would prefer something like two screws with big textured heads and a simple retaining device when fully tightened. That way you can simply tighten or losen them with your hands - without any tool.
You're not going to get 12 Nm of torque without a tool with a handle unless you're the strongest man in the world or something. Or then the bolt heads would have to be wider than the gun itself.
Since you need to zero the optic anyways after a caliber switch, there's no reason for the barrel switch to be doable in the field without tools. It's going to be a bit of an operation anyways due to the re-zeroing.
Actually for me the bolt carrier group reminds me of a g3 with a ar15 bolthead
Needs more calibers, especially various 6mm 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges. Needs options for longer barrels. Perhaps a polymer fore end.
Would love to see these here in Canada!
Exactly.
I honestly thought you were interviewing Skallagrim.
“Only a few rounds left, I’ll shoot them away”. How to flex on Americans 😎
Not much of a flex anymore. Ammo supply is slowing coming back again.
Looks like a very well thought-out rifle, but to me it sounds horribly clanky. But don't take me too seriously as I collect sinhle-shot rifles for particularly that reason. Also due to our stupid laws here, a caliber-change option is of no interest to me personally. I do have a difficult question for you: considering .223 only, which do you prefer, this or the WWSD?
Any plans for orther calibers like 243 or 6.5?? boy Id almost want to saftey wire those allen screws...
serious APC 223/308 vibes out of this.
Cool concept. Seems perfect for countries with limits on the number of guns you can own.
Introduce them to KE Arms, who has a safety for the AR that can be put on safe with the hammer in any position.
Is it .223 Rem. only and not for 5.56 Nato?
Any plans to sell these in the US? I kinda want one.
So, it has aluminum chassis but it looks like all wearing surfaces are steel, so i assume that it would be much more durable than standard AR15
AR-15's are very durable. I've never seen one worn out, even after tens many tens of thousands of rounds.
@@314299 yeah, I've seen one upper that was unusable after 40000 rounds, but if this rifle becomes next service rifle for Finland, it needs to last forever, at least 60 years like RK62 has, besides conscripts are the most destructive force on earth to issued equipment.
I wonder how it compares to the SCAR 17s. There's also the 20s in 308 or 6.5 creedmoor, a cartridge I'm starting to get interested in, it's similar to 6.5x55 Mauser but in a 308 length.
First off, the caliber swap while using standard mags is awesome. Well done. Unfortunately, I see 2 glaring issues. 1) The handguard is too short. It needs to be at least 3 inches longer. 2) Changing caliber requires re-zero. If you can address the re-zero issue, this would be the greatest leap in rifle design this century. Make the pic rail attach to the barrel, so the optic moves with the barrel when you swap it out. And please give us more real estate for all of our gadgets, as well as, our hand. If you add a light and laser with pressure switch(s), there will be no place left for your hand with that charging handle arrangement. This is one of the main issues with the G3. That stupid charging handle placement ruins the ability to set up the tacticool crap we want to attach to our handguard, while leaving space for us to grip the rifle. We want to put our hand where comfortable, while all of our gizmos’ controls mount within reach of our fingers, without compromise. When your competition is the AR platform, ergonomics will make or break your design. Short handguards are a no go.
Is there a rifle that hold zero after barrel change?
Besides, re-zeroing isn't much of a deal anyway.
Really slick rifle!
Are you in Finland or yari in Switzerland?
Right now, I'm in Switzerland and Jari is in Finland. When this was filmed, I was up in Finland.
Traveling to switzerland with a prototype select fire assault rifle would be an impressive exercise in paperwork.
I can see the appeal (even if it would probably be instabanned in Canada), but I'd be concerned about having a stupidly heavy .223 configuration. I expect the .308 (or 6.5 CM) might be the most popular configuration and most user would leave it at that.
I need to get one. :)
Ambidextrous charging handles. Nice!
So I'll take one in 6.5x47. They should make a "fixed" caliber geared towards accuracy and get on export. The US could help them pay their bills for a while if they worked with someone stateside to finish the fiddly legal bits. While there are already some options for large caliber "battle rifle" rifles, most are older military designs. But if it could be built to be precise with that neat design, monolithic upper half, aftermarket stock and grip access, etc. it might be a good AR10/Scar competitor.
Also impressive that recoil impulse was with bird cage style flash hider. With a brake it would likely not move.
I prefer this over colts version for sure, was it the 901? 🤔 having the same weight (when empty atleast) makes a big difference for training on one platform, plus it looks a folding stock recoil trunion could easily be added, (not even possible on colts version of course) i also like the non reciprocating charging handle, and bolt/gas system/ejection/safety designs 👍Im not a big fan of ambi safeties as long as its reversible, and would prefer an ambi bolt catch and release. Thanks for the video 👍
I'll say one thing for it: that is one seriously over-built 5.56mm bolt! Not going to be shearing lugs off that anytime soon.
next step: optimise the design to get rid of the socket head bolts and instead havve some kind of quick release clamp
Looks like both of you could have benefited from sliding the buttstock a nodge or two longer. But it was new weapon for both of you then. With longer butt more ergonomy and even less recoil disturbance and barrel rise, certainly.
Loistava!! Wonderful rifle!! Well done!! Now I want one. Sigh...I cant get one in California...sigh. I probably couldnt afford one either.
this is actually a really cool rifle idea.
funnily enough reminds me a lot of the Arma 3 MX but that's just me feeling obligated to make a reference :P
little bit of Cerakote and a Magpul UBR stock and it's cosplay ready
Apologies if I've missed it, but what's the approximate weight of the rifle? My experience with these full aluminium upper rifles is that they tend to be excessively heavy, and badly balanced through using an AR-15 stock (which I get for compatibility) but without a buffer etc weighing the back end down a little. I'm specifically thinking of a different rifle, but this reminds me of it quite a bit.
3.7kg. It was in the video :)
@@BlokeontheRange D'oh! Thanks Bloke, it's less than I expected even if it's not quite what I'd hope for, but what is life without something or other to whinge about!
I like this, would love to see it in 6.5 grendal/creedmoor
In Finnish:
SRA= sovellettu reserviläis ammunta
In english:
ARS= applied reservist shooting
Is this a select fire rifle, semi-auto or something else?
semi
Now they just need to get the cost down to at least half, and you have something there.
Pretty cool how much$?
Answer near the end of the vid :)
@@BlokeontheRange Thank you actually not too bad
Is the barrel chrome lined?
0:8:32 is such a Swiss question.
Well designed, well built, I like it. Hopefully they’ll be imported into the states or they’ll permit licensed U.S. domestic production.
Interesting engineering, zero retaining optic changes would make a big difference. Not sure about not being able to load with safety on, sure the AR platform has its own different issue but I think for a military firearm, it would be good to be able to make ready with the safety on
AR has the opposite problem, can’t be put on safe without the hammer being cocked. Personally I’d rather always be able to put it on safe.
@@509Gman for sure
It would indeed be awesome if the rifle retained zero when swapping between calibers. Hmmm, I am wondering if a different design of the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and frame/receiver could to the trick? So instead of a square'ish block that relies on the recoil lug it would be further keyed somehow so that it mates the same every time...
@@manalainen Blaser manage it on their sporting rifles
@@traildogisla it has the AK manual of arms. Really useful for a conscript force that has used the AK from the 1960's onwards. What I'm saying is that they are going for the finnish defence forces assault rifle replacement that's coming up in the next decade. Not having to retrain the reserve on a different manual of arms is likely to be a benefit in the competition. Btw the current finnish inventory is 600000+ rifles.
If only I could have one. :)
Good on them for design a nice rifle, but it isn’t really anything new. Colt had a similar rifle “multi caliber rifle” (LE901), and the SCAR-H can be switched to 5.56 as well.
I bet they will have success in Europe or locally in Finland/Sweden, but I will cannot see this rifle getting across the pond to the USA.
You are right, it does not bring anything new to the market, at least nothing that will appeal to potential military buyers. It is little too heavy and the company is too small to be viable for military contracts.
I wonder how to get one into the US
As a "pistol" without the buttstock, the buttstock being sent in the post :)
@@BlokeontheRange thanks! I'm going to figure out how long I'll have to go into debt to make it happen
Polaris Logistics are the guys who can help you at the US end, and they've got good contacts in Finland once the rifle is in production.
@@BlokeontheRange thanks Mike. I appreciate the info. My savings does not. If you gt back to the States and visit Ian and Karl, let me know. Haven't shot 2GACM but I'd be willing to saddle up again
23:08 the bolt catch is in the same place as an AR.
No it isn't. It's much higher and a bit further to the rear.
@@BlokeontheRange since you’ve actually handled it I’m inclined to agree but on video it looks like the same placement. I even had to get my AR out to double-check.
Smart design
Will these be standard issue for the Finnish army?
No.
My interest has been piqued, but I am skeptical it would ever make it into the U.S. firearms market.
Very nice rifle. Too bad it can’t be imported to the US. Perhaps as a pistol,like Mike said.
I think it needs a folding charging handle.
Notice C-grip in the 24 min
ruclips.net/video/Tm56ZmHiCHY/видео.html
I just leave this here