At one time guitars with a tailpiece use to come with an owners manual. The manual explained the tailpiece and why one would adjust it. If one wanted a slinkier feel or less tension on the strings then one would raise the tailpiece. If one wanted more string tension (less slinkiness) one would lower the tailpiece. The manual also explained this engineering concept and the physics behind this. I believe the guitar was an Ibanez with a tailpiece that came with this manual. In recent years (last twenty years or so) I never see this manual with guitars with tailpieces. I find that most people dont know what the purpose of the tailpiece is for.
This makes perfect sense and was what I felt when I tested it. I may have even said it in the video to some extent, I can't remember, it was a long time ago now. Thanks for your comment.
In my perview, it doesn't affect tone so much as playability. Slinkier strings when the break angle isn't as steep makes it 'easier' to play, and the way you play actually causes the minute difference in tone.
Def agree its slinkier high and that def causes me to pick it a little lighter to keep from nudging the note sharp at the attack…I think you are right, it allows the note to sound fuller immediately and not quite so pinched.
Ben, thank you for taking the time to record examples of the different tail piece heights and pick-up combinations. I could not tell the difference. But I've been playing in R&B and Rock cover bands since 1962. I was 12 years old. So my hearing now is probably not the best. Or the difference is just too subtle. I bought my Les Paul Standard in 1979. I added Grover tuners and left everything else stock. I played it through an early 60's Fender Bassman amp head plugged into four JBL D-120, 12 inch speakers. No reverb. No effects pedals. A local guitar slinger I respected came to the club to check out my cover band. After the first set he came up to the stage to look at my rig setup. He was surprised my guitar was plugged straight into the amp. He remarked, "you have the perfect tone". The modern guitar player either has 20 pedals on a board or some kind digital of effects rack the alters the sound of the guitar so much it would not matter if the tail piece was high, low or missing. So what is there to argue about? P.S. In 2001 I read an article about lowering the tail piece. I lowered all the way to the wood. I play it that way now. Still cannot tell the difference.
Thanks for the comment, so sorry I didn't see this until just now. Yes, I agree that there's very little difference, I just thought I'd have a little mess around to see whether there was in this video and came to the same conclusion that you did I think. In a live band situation with a drummer beating his cymbals in to submission, there's no way you're hearing this difference, but I could FEEL the difference in tension. So I've just gone by feel rather than sound. I also agree that if you play a very complex signal chain, you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference even in isolation, so again it matters not a jot. Going direct is a great sound if you have the right amp, which you do...personally I like a little delay though. Sometimes I turn it off, just to make sure I can still play without it. I can, I just don't like it! ha! Most of my guitar gigs these days are done to backing tracks and it sounds a bit odd with the guitar so dry and the rest of the 'band' in some room sounding environment that I'm not in! Thanks again for the comment, Ben.
Thanks, man! I wish I could claim some level of authenticity, but I think it would be a stretch! Weston Super Mare, is a long way from the delta...although we do have mud...
Hi! Thanks for sharing this great video. This is a very important topic that we sometimes g forget about. I actually experimented with my 339 stop tail height and I can also confirm there is a difference in tension. I initially read that lowering it all the way down will make the “hollow” sound much better in this type of guitar. Honestly haven’t heard that much of difference. In fact i kept it up as I did feel a huge difference in string tension and now my 339 plays amazingly great! I think this is about finding your own guitars sweet point that best matches whatever your are looking for. I do also laught at all the people fighting in forums. At the end all it matters is how the guitar feels and sounds for you. Thanks once again!
Thank you for the comment! I think by the sounds of it, we've found the same thing. You're right, this is going to be personal preference and dependent on your guitar. I also have a 339 (Great guitars!) and the tail piece is off the face off the guitar by quite a bit. After experimenting, I pretty much left my Les Paul at the same height as the 339. Cheers, Ben.
Great video man! I've come to the same conclusion, when top wrapped or raised tailpiece you definitely loose a bit of treble but it feels soooo much better imo. The strings feel so slinky and way easier on bends. Cheers my guy
I am one who never really thought about it or cared. I just played the guitar the way it came which is usually screwed all the way down. One day just out of boredom I decided to raise the tailpiece with full intention on screwing it back down when I was done. I was shocked that I could actually hear a difference and liked what I was hearing. More so the strings felt slinkier, the 10's felt more like 9's which I also liked. Still in my mind I was convincing myself that it was just a placebo effect but decided to keep the tailpiece raised for a while. Well, it's been months and the tailpiece is still raised but if I know myself one day I'll lower it back down and be convinced that it sounds and feels better. 😂 I guess in the end just do whichever you believe is better and leave it at that.
Did the same thing and I'm happy to find out I'm not the only one feeling that the strings are slinkier. I wouldn't say they're close to 9s but it's easier and smoother to bend and since I play mostly blues it really comes in handy. I was thinking it's all in my mind/ placebo as well 🙂
I've found that having the stop bar all the way down on both sides increases the string tension and break angle over the bridge of the low E, A, and D strings in comparison to the higher strings. So on my guitars I have the high E side of the stop bar all the way down, but on the low E side I raise it 2.5 to 3.5mm (depending on the guitar), so that the break angle of all 6 strings is approximately the same. And then string tension feels more even across all strings as well.
My break angle was really strong on my 339 due to its archtop. I was worried about the forward tension on my adjustable Bridge. One bump and it could push forward because of the brake angle. I raised it up almost an eighth of an inch. I didn't notice any tone change but what I did receive was peace of mind
I ponder this subject a lot. I'd probably be better off playing more! Anyway, for electric guitars in the LP, ES or SG-style I've found that as you lower the tailpiece (i.e. increase the break angle) you get a little more sustain, a slightly brighter/vibrant tone and a bit more string tension as well as more acoustic volume. To me this makes sense if you have ever noticed the saddle height/break angle relationship on acoustic guitars where a steeper break angle results are the same. It seems to be consistent. Keep in mind that electric guitars have these things called pickups that are usually played thru amplifiers and as Ben stated...all this can be EQ-ed in or out.
Definitely Not worth arguing about... Nice video and realistic/practical way to put the differences of tail piece height into perspective... Nice slide playing too. I enjoyed it. Phil NYC Area
I wrap my strings up and over the tail piece and then I raise the stop bar a fair bit. I use 11 to 50 strings and that of course makes it a little easier to play using string bends and vibrato, but what I like most is the fact that it changes the sound to a "softer" tone. You can hear it here when he demonstrates the differences in the setting of it. The tone for me of course is personal but I can't stress enough how it makes "me" feel when I hear it!!
I like the raised tailpiece sound... AND bending ease is greatly improved. You can also top wrap your strings over the tailpiece. The choice is more of a personal playing preference. You can do a video on top load Tele's next.
I found that, with the tail piece all the way down, tuning stability improved greatly on my '67 Gibson SG. I had to tighten the truss rod slightly. I use 12's on my electrics by the way. As far as tone change, I never even thought about it.
For anyone trying to figure stuff out. I used to play a 90s Gibson les paul studio I would keep the bridge rather LOW but I knew that if I had gone lower, I risk braking strings more. I played the bridge low because the higher tension on the strings, with orange tortex picks, was the best tension to do fast technical palm muted chugging, with heavy gain. it felt and sounded very crisp. If I had raised it, the strings would have been more bendable, better for blues or softer rock. I was also tuned a half step down and using ernie ball 11's. I use 10s now but the same rules apply about the tailpiece. Definitely use big bends nut sauce no matter what. if you slam that tailpiece down you might break some strings. Ive got about 15 years without breaking a string now.
Listening on headphones, high seems to introduce a slight metallic, somewhat brighter edge to the notes and low sounds warmer, thicker tone, more jazz like. Which kinda contradicts what you say. Definitely preferred the lower sound. But ultimately you have to find the balance between tone and feel. Really good video, thanks.
Interesting, I wasn't getting that at the time. I'll have to get someone to play my clips back to me in the form a blind test and see what I make of them when I don't know which is which. Thanks, man.
I have 2 LPs...and had them set up by 2 different people. One guy went a little high and one guy went low (essentially touching the body). Other than a slight difference in string tension, I do not notice much difference. The only difference in sound can be attributed to the different pickups. BBs in my Standard and 490s in my Tribute. The tailpiece height doesn't make the huge difference in tone and sustain that it is fabled to.
Bought a Firebird with the tailpiece cranked down as far as it could go. I brought it halfway up and could not tell any difference in anything, sound, feel or sustain. Don't know what the other owner was trying to accomplish setting it that way. I think if there's an adjustment on something people just have to fiddle away at it.
I only have one guitar with this type of bridge and tail piece, but the ones I've owned in the past, I would adjust to the height that seemed to me to be the best. I would then measure between the body and bottom of thumbwheel, and then turn that thickness of washer on the lathe. Or you can stack washers to get about the same effect. I also would wrap the threads of the bridge and the tailpiece with plumber tape(teflon). I seemed to like the tail up about a 1/4 ". Some I would set up with a top wrap and spacers under turned down snug. Why did Gibson make it adjustable? My current 335 type sounds and plays great, but when I change strings to 9's, I will ad some washers. To me the more solid the better.
Wouldn’t more vibrato with a higher tail piece (less tension) make it sustain more..? I feel that is the disconnect. They sound the same for held notes but feel different IMO
I noticed a dramatic difference with tailpiece height. It was too low on the used LP I bought, though not bottomed out. B &E strings were cutting into the bridge. As to tone, sustain, ambiance... I'm not sophisticated to tell the difference.
Nice video man, well done. I could hear it. I'm in agreement, the difference was very slight and at the end of the day it's about your personal preference as a player regarding string tension.
Thanks man! Sorry, I missed the notification for this comment. It was very subtle difference for sure, which was good because I always worry when making adjustments that I'm not going to be able to get it back to exactly how it was when I liked it, ha! I enjoy slightly less tension on the strings so that's how I left it. Thanks again, Ben.
To many players do not understand the tailpiece at all. That is an vital part ment to be adjusted to get an good balance. A fine adjustment not even a full turn should do if more is needed then there are problems to be found somewhere else in the chain.
The sound isn't the problem. The tension is what varies by a considerable amount. Now something no one has mentioned is the lower the tail piece the longer the string. Therefore intonation could be an issue.
I agree with the tension being affected more than the sound. I think you'd do well to hear much difference in a band situation, but you'd want to have it feeling the way you like it. I'm not an expert at all, but I doubt that intonation can be affected by overall string length. The distance between and height of the bridge and the nut would remain constant regardless of the height of the tailpiece, so I'm not sure it could affect the pitch in any way. Though with very low tailpiece and very high bridge, the string would be a few millimeters longer overall for sure.
Thanks for creating and posting this. It is very well recorded, and easy enough to hear subtle differences in a good system, particularly on clean tones! IMO, so much of the tone of electrics is about the strings and pickups, and yours sound really nice! Increasing scale length in acoustics imparts both more tension and more articulation--I can't imagine it's different in electrics--there has got to be a relationship between the tension of the string (for any given gauge) and the way it vibrates. But speaking of vibration, my understanding is that the most uncolored tone will be from an isolated string vibration, thus the attention to locking tuners, nuts, and tailpieces on some guitars. The added vibrations of the string touching the back of the bridge, or maybe a vibrating bridge or tailpiece may add a wanted or not wanted complexity to the sound, creating a unique tone. This may be why people are arguing about it (and angry?!--really!). Ideally, I think we do want to hear the wood, but only as transmitted through the nut and saddle. I personally go for the isolated string aesthetic, with as steep an angle as is possible--so, off the back of the bridge, but steep, and get complexity from tubes! Also, either installing set screws in that bridge, or going with the pre-made TonePros versions eliminates the sound of a vibrating bridge and gets more wood into tone. All these things matter, and yet, the fundamentally quality of the strings, neck, pickups and your very artful and soulful fingers most of all are what makes this all so lovely! Thanks again, you saved me some time!
Thanks for the nice comment, Stewart! You're right, there are many contributing factors to the sound of the guitar and this is indeed a very subtle one. There was a video where Rick Beato's friend Dave, was saying how his SG sounded different because his tailpiece had been put on after-market and much further back than is standard. It was sympathetic resonance he was alluding to, much the same as you mention. Similar to Jazz Masters I guess, with the long travel between bridge and tailpiece. Glad you found the video useful and thanks again, Ben.
@@BenFletcherGuitar I can attest to that result--I installed a locking roller bridge and Bigsby on a 335 and got a big jump in fullness of tone. Currently tweaking an SG, and your video helped me focus on the tailpiece aspect. I am trying to keep this one light, so not adding chunky parts! Thanks again for your efforts.
Hi Anna, it's just a random jam I made, that I use for background music on this channel. I think I was messing with a 20 quid fuzz pedal at the time and that's what came out. Glad you like it. Thanks, Ben.
Like so many other things, I believe this is a matter of Season to Taste. How you dig it the most is the best way for you. Personally, I have my favorite LP setup with 9's; bridge is pretty high because I play fingerstyle mostly with some glass slide. I have the stopbar raised up to about half the width of a quarter or 7mm, which most would say is pretty high. I suppose I could drop the stop bar by around 4mm if I over wrapped, but I've tried the over wrap with the stop bar slammed on quite a few guitars never really noticed any difference aside from a scratched up stop bar. At the end of the day I just want the strings to make it from the saddle to the tailpiece without contacting the bridge or having to steep of a break over angle. That's just my opinion and I probably don't really know much; after all, I prefer unpotted pickups and have banjo tuners with hip shots on the a, d and g strings of my LP.
Interesting. I could hear it. I always raise the tailpiece on my LPs to lessen the string tension. Each guitar is different. One I have jacked way up, the other not so much according to what each guitar likes. Unique beasts they are. I actually noticed MORE sustain on my 2023 60s model raised up off the body. So much for urban lore. Cheers, mate!
My goal is to have relatively loose tension without sitar effect. I've settled on the simple method of using a .88mm guitar pick under the high and low E strings as a spacer between the back edge of the bridge and the string. If i can slide the pick under the string easily, without it falling out or pushing up on the string, I'm good.
I would go with the low setting and file the saddles accordingly or go with roller saddles soaked in penetrating oil and grease. Not that it needs it for any real reason other than that is just something I do anyway. I personally would need an oscilloscope to notice any difference.
An interesting topic. Just bought an Epiphone 335 dot. Looking at stopbar I did not like design as strings hit top of stopbar on way out then almost hit the back of bridge. Poor design. My solution was to raise stopbar, but to reduce tension pull on side of stopbar locating bolts I fitted spacer between body and bolt. This meant that after tightening down bolts for stopbar the strings come out just missing the top of the string hole of stopbar, possibly helping to stop breakage. This also meant a slightly easier string bending. I think also with the bolts tightened down no loss of sustain than with bolts raised up and loose.
Sounds like a good compromise to me. I thought about doing that as a test in this video, but decided to go with the most extreme examples so that you'd have more chance of hearing it over the internet. Thanks for the comment.
In my experience shallowest is the starting point (not deepest) - then adjust for feel to allow for greatest dynamic control. Always use EQ (in every form available) to finalize your tone - being careful not to remove all "liveliness" (to your ear - of course), Keep in mind RUclips compression dulls the "in the room" sound.
Slamming the tailpiece to the body creates too much string tension on the bridge and will flatten the radius over time. If there is a difference in tone when having the tailpiece to the body, I think it's because you're hearing the metal on metal contact of the studs and the bushings. If you want to have the metal on metal sound, you can buy threaded inserts and use them as a spacer to thread into the bushings. That way you can still get that metal on metal sound without ruining your bridge.
It definitely created too much tension for me. I'm not sure what would cause any difference in tone, other than the string tension itself which you would think would play a part. Yes, you could use spacers so that there's more contact, or do the top wrap thing that some people do. I'm personally fine with the bridge just floating around wherever it's comfortable, the difference in sound wasn't big enough for me to be concerned about it. Cheers, Ben.
Hi Ben I got couple questions for you, what gauge strings do you use on les paul and how do you like your action set up a les paul? Thank you do much and Merry Christmas to you and your Family.
I use 11's and have it set fairly low for a slide player. I play rock stuff on the same guitars, so it needs to work for both. Sometimes if i'm doing a blues gig and I take a second guitar for open G, I might put a 12 on the top, but that's very rare. I'd have to be playing without a band for me to do that, as it makes it easier to play a slide note on the top and keep some bass happening on the other strings. Most of the time I play in Standard tuning or standard tuning but dropped to E flat. Merry Christmas to you too and Happy New year for tomorrow! Cheers, Ben.
Regarding putting it right at the bottom - why work harder than you need to? I had an LP come back with the tailpiece at the bottom and it really isn't worth the slight change in tone in my own opinion.
Does tail piece height have an effect t on how bending feels and does a higher tail piece really allow string slippage over the bridge and cause your guitar to go out of tune? So many aspects. I want smoother bendability but not at the cost of going out of tune because of it.
Hi Ben, thanks for this video, beautifully played and filmed! I want to change the tailpiece on my 30 year old Less Paul... mainly for esthetic reasons...and came across your video, I did hear a slight difference in the sound, but as you say, nerd territory! I agree with the previous comment, I suppose it's about finding the sweet spot for each guitar and what feels best... too low will increase the pressure of the strings on the bridge and may cause strings to break more ofter, too high and the reduced pressure may affect the tuning stability... anyway, nice video! :)
Thanks, man! Yes, it's a very subtle difference sonically for sure. I definitely thought you could feel the difference under the fingers, so I just set mine up for what felt best to me. What kind of change to your tailpiece are you making? How will it affect the look? I'll be honest and say that I didn't know there were different options other than a standard one and a trapeze style.
@@BenFletcherGuitar Thanks for your response! I'm gonna change both the tail piece and the bridge to ones made out of solid bell brass... I think the ones I currently have on my guitar are probably made out of some sort of cheap alloy metal and then nickel plated... they have damaged over the years, the nickel surface looks pretty 'grotty'! So it's time for an upgrade! :) Of course the solid bell brass bridge will have more of an effect on the tone, probably the tailpiece material doesn't matter so much and won't affect the tone so much as the bridge does, but I might as well just replace the tailpiece with a solid brass one while i'm at it... if anything, it will always look nice ans shiny! :)
I screw it down to mitigate tension moment at the post inserts. With action set to medium low, the strings do not touch the bridge. I see no reason to undo the tailpiece posts at all they are best screwed down for tone and to mitigate the post insert's tendency to pull out of the body. If you want less tension then just do the wraparound option, but do screw the posts down until the flanges contact the tops of the inserts. Might want to clean the rust and corrosion off the threads of those posts also, that does kinda matter especially if you are splitting hairs with tailpiece height.
Hey man, how does your slide sound so clean and buffered? theres no noise and scratchiness. What is your slide and your settings? I'd like to play some of that stuff tonight. that slide looks ceramic. is that in standard tuning?
Thanks! I roll the tone back on the bridge pickup when playing slide. It's around 6 or even less depending how dark the amp is. It gets rid of any scratchiness. The slide is a ceramic Dunlop moonshine and also sounds pretty smooth. I had to skim through the video to see what I played. It looks like I'm in drop D, so basically standard tuning. Most of the time in a live environment I play in standard tuning and occasionally open G. Hope some of that helps, Ben.
What makes the biggest difference is the 17 degree Gibson headstock angle. Thats what creates that famous massive resonance and makes the guitar vibrate inside. Epiphone and other Guitars dont have this. Its why they sound dull and muddy
I've been using stopbar height to change the string tension for years. I've had some tell me the height doesn't change tension, that I'm wrong and possibly stupid, even that it's simple High School physics & wrapping the strings on the bar is ok and completely different. They totally deny it, though I know others who do the same as I do. Wrapping the strings changes the angle and makes the tension less, the same thing raising the bar does, by changing the angle. I find the naysayers amusing.
Ah yes, people say many things, especially on the internet! Ha! Best thing is always to try this stuff for yourself, especially with something like this that can be restored easily.
Thank you! That's a very interesting question. It's a bit un-scientific, but I just sort of lined mine up by eye. My bridge isn't quite symmetrical in height, because I always feel like I should have the bass side a little higher because of the thickness of the strings. Obviously with it flat down to the surface of the guitar, the tail piece would be symmetrical in height. In order to have an even tension though, I guess its height should be adjusted relative to how you have your bridge set. That is of course, if you want an even tension! You might want to have more tension on the lower strings. If you experiment with it, let me know what you find! Ben.
@@BenFletcherGuitar thanks ... ok, the strat and the teles with strings through the body do not allow this option and nothing happens, maybe the asymmetry of the tailpiece helps something, in which I do not know, it should be experimented ... what is clear is that tailpiece Not decked to the wood, it allows a much more versatile adjustment in the tension of the strings, you can make a fine adjustment of your tension and improve your touch. If you add to this the action of the strings and that surely more pressure on the bridge can make the inclination of the neck change, I think that the most logical option is not to decked the tailpiece to the body with top wraping or not. The improvement in sustain is not clear. I will continue investigating
The strings aren't supposed to hit the back of the bridge. I had to raise my tailpiece to get clearance.it was like that new from Sweetwater. Gibson sg standard. Tha tech at Sweetwater said it doesn't matter but I disagree.
I heard on net, that if you raise the tailpiece, bends become easier. Not so.. i raised it, and bends were even harder. so i put it back down as it was before after just one day, because there was no benefit at all. and i don't want to wrap strings at all, i'll just leave it as it is. for the future i'll definately not read these instructions on internet anymore. cause, in my case, it was even harder to bend with raised tailpiece. the only good advice i read was, that the strings shouldn't hit the bridge, and in my case they don't.
It's definitely a subtle thing isn't it? In the end, I went with the feel I wanted rather than worry about the sound too much. Thanks for commenting, Ben.
I bought a chambered '95 LP from Japan and the tailpiece was high so that strings would touch the back of the saddle. It came with a perfect setup from the shop seller. I like your chambered LP a lot.
Sounds good, seems to be quite a lot of love for mid 90's 'Pauls in the forums, In just had a quick look. Thank you! Opinions seem pretty divided on the chambered LP's, but I dig mine and got it for a nice price, so that was cool. Cheers, Ben.
It shouldn’t affect playability in the least simply due to the fact that regardless of the angle if the same string in the same thickness is tuned to the same pitch it will have the same tension otherwise it would create a different pitch what’s going on outside the vibrating portion of the string is irrelevant, just look at a Floyd Rose for example. As for tuning stability with a greater angle and more pressure comes more potential for friction although with normal bending any movement at the bridge is minuscule and if this is a point where the string is catching for whatever reason it just needs to either be sanded smoother to avoid any potential burrs or properly lubricated with some manner of grease. And finally as for tone a greater break angle means higher tension and less potential for sympathetic vibration which means more efficient energy transfer within the vibrating portion of the string itself and less energy loss through the tailpiece and into the guitar body, for max sustain you want as little energy being transferred into the guitar itself as possible and as much retained within the vibrating string itself although these are fairly minimal differences at best. This is all my understanding based on my own experience and putting way too much thought into these things.
appreciate the video -- to all those picking a side and attacking others, I invite you to think about the big picture -- discerning nuances in tone over a YT video is silly - even if you discern the difference, that's about the most your going to get out of it -- that a different exists, but how the difference matters to you, with your guitar, and your amp, with your band, at your volume..... please, that's just not going to happen. Humans like to feel special - and one way to feel special is to be an uber expert on a given topic - and one way to appear to be an uber expert on a topic, is to have some sort of secret knowledge that no one else knows - even if that perceived knowledge had no impact in reality -- With most things (not specific to guitar, but baseball, math, computer science, beer brewing, etc.... ...), having some specific knowledge, of how something is effects something or is better than something else or a "thing" no one knows and then follow it up with "but its to each persons taste" is not helpful. People are looking the "why" and something that will help them decide if its worth spending outs contemplating or just picking a horse and running with it. Its like saying certain type of batting glove is better than another for some unscientific reason, then saying "but its up to each person to decide what they like" - not helpful, but makes the person feel like they are an expert. The real question is -- when the designers and engineers designed the tailpiece, what was the purpose and the driver factor for making it adjustable - probably would have be easier to make it fixed - but they made it adjustable for some reason. if you know that, then you can probably make a decision whether or not to adjust. I do not know why they designed it this way but im sure someone knows the answer
From your comments I see you are, like me, using one guitar for both regular and slide while in standard tuning👍 I would be very interested to hear about how you approach that. Like for one thing, where do you keep your slide so it’s easy to use for slide parts, out of the way for non slide parts, and convenient to go between both?
Yes, that can be a pain in certain instances. I play open tuning on blues gigs sometimes, as it gives me access to particular sounds/techniques, but for the most part my gigs are quite pop/rock orientated. I'm basically shoe-horning in slide where it doesn't belong! ha! That's why I chose to play standard, so that I could use it at any time. I imagine you might be the same? In recent years I've found I'm almost wearing it the whole time unless there's a need to use the little finger for certain parts. I use very economical chords to allow this. I'm happy to sacrifice sounding like the record for sounding like me, so this may not be ideal for a lot of people. I also chose to play with the little finger, as most of the time I'm in a trio situation. Having the three fingers free, made for easier chording. Failing that I just keep the slide in my back pocket, ready to whip it out (giggedy). It's funny so many people in England at regular gigs, don't know what it's for. I've had people asking if I've broken my finger, like it's a splint! Or asking if it makes it easier to play because 'it hurts when you push the strings down doesn't it?!' A child told me on Saturday night that, 'it was stupid, because it doesn't do anything' The band thought that one was hilarious! Thanks for the comment, Ben.
Do you think somewhere between the two, gives you something of both those qualities? Or does the tailpiece have to be touching the body for the increased attack?
Thanks man, glad you liked it. It's an interesting topic that I've seen come up quite a bit in forums. I'd definitely give it a try for yourself and see what works for you. Cheers, Ben.
My LP has the tail down to the body with the strings wrapped around to sort out the angle...i guess it's supposed to add sustain and resonance, more things In contact with the body the more depth and vibration right? I dunno.... Looks cool though! Nice vid, couldn't hear a difference through my phone, speakers were better.
That Les Paul Custom I had, best sustain I've had on a guitar... And that had a high tailpiece and the bridge had been put on backwards 🤣 maybe there's something in that, I look forward to the 'reverse bridge' video...
@@iaineccleston8790 I'm gunna try it with the bridge at the neck end and the tuners near the pickups, I think that's the answer! From my experiment here I'm just going to say that the tension is affected by the tailpiece height in relation to the bridge, which may impact the sound. The actual height of it makes absolutely sod all difference though I think. To those of us that have hearing within the range of normal human tolerances anyway.
@@BenFletcherGuitar don't sweat it man. Your content is good and your playing is awesome. Most of the time I just listen to you tones and don't comment though. I get it can be frustrating for you to get ideas, film and edit videos and at the end have only few viewers but you are one of the few channels I subscribed to at the first vid. And I am picky :) On a side note, you should definitively get a custom channel URL ( ruclips.net/channel/UCVPrSgOJLWp1r6wz39q89Tg is less user firendly than channel/BenFletcher imho ) Please keep on going !
@@snaguber Thanks, man! I was just thinking out loud there. (No, not Ed Sheeran!) I appreciate the subscription. I'll have a look at the URL thing as this is the 1st I'm hearing about it, cheers for the heads up. Ben
That's a good question! Somewhere in between. Personally, I can't hear any tonal benefit to having it touching the body, so I just used it as a way to create the amount of tension on the strings I wanted to feel.
@@BenFletcherGuitar I just bought a gem,it is right up,havnt plugged it in to check it out yet,,but feels as though there's plenty of give in the strings
My Compliments. In most YT attempts: the individual cannot even tune a guitar much less play it in your class !!! Anyway....Thanks for tackling a confusing subject!!
It makes no difference as the string is free to vibrate where it makes a difference, over the pickup. Prove it to yourself. Record a passage on a looper and record open string sound. Analyze the time and height of the two and tell me what you see. If there 😊is any difference the tension on the tune is culprit.
good on ya buddy..well said..thats the truth & reality..no need for mega distortion hiding tone...simple riff,played the same way...over & over you can hear the change...thats the point of your vidio hey..is there a difference,, ,,lol
Screwing stop bar down to body will break strings on the bridge. Tone change is imagination, most likely fake information started by sting marketing genius, and everyone fell for it. 😁 Getting angry about this crap is nuts, if you want to screw it down go for it. just expect to change string more often is all I am saying. If you go over the stop bar with the string (top wrap) and not through, it is a good idea to screw the stop bar down all the way.
I completely disagree about the “high end loss” whenever the strings were higher. To me it sounded like the strings were brighter whenever you made them higher. It also sounded like there was more attack present. I have two les Paul style guitars, the one with the higher bridge has more bite to me.
At one time guitars with a tailpiece use to come with an owners manual. The manual explained the tailpiece and why one would adjust it. If one wanted a slinkier feel or less tension on the strings then one would raise the tailpiece. If one wanted more string tension (less slinkiness) one would lower the tailpiece. The manual also explained this engineering concept and the physics behind this. I believe the guitar was an Ibanez with a tailpiece that came with this manual. In recent years (last twenty years or so) I never see this manual with guitars with tailpieces. I find that most people dont know what the purpose of the tailpiece is for.
This makes perfect sense and was what I felt when I tested it. I may have even said it in the video to some extent, I can't remember, it was a long time ago now. Thanks for your comment.
Exactly, the lower the tailpiece, the higher the tension at the bridge and the opposite is true.
My Eb Les Paul got a Tailpiece all down at the bottom, my E standard is raised a bit. Feels good 👍 it’s less of a difference in playability then
"If you can't hear it, then you can't hear it" Best quote since Yngwie said "If it sounds good, it's good"
Haha! I like his 'How can less be more?! More is more!' quote too.
In my perview, it doesn't affect tone so much as playability. Slinkier strings when the break angle isn't as steep makes it 'easier' to play, and the way you play actually causes the minute difference in tone.
Def agree its slinkier high and that def causes me to pick it a little lighter to keep from nudging the note sharp at the attack…I think you are right, it allows the note to sound fuller immediately and not quite so pinched.
Ben, thank you for taking the time to record examples of the different tail piece heights and pick-up combinations. I could not tell the difference. But I've been playing in R&B and Rock cover bands since 1962. I was 12 years old. So my hearing now is probably not the best.
Or the difference is just too subtle. I bought my Les Paul Standard in 1979. I added Grover tuners and left everything else stock. I played it through an early 60's Fender Bassman amp head plugged into four JBL D-120, 12 inch speakers. No reverb. No effects pedals. A local guitar slinger I respected came to the club to check out my cover band. After the first set he came up to the stage to look at my rig setup. He was surprised my guitar was plugged straight into the amp. He remarked, "you have the perfect tone". The modern guitar player either has 20 pedals on a board or some kind digital of effects rack the alters the sound of the guitar so much it would not matter if the tail piece was high, low or missing. So what is there to argue about? P.S. In 2001 I read an article about lowering the tail piece. I lowered all the way to the wood. I play it that way now. Still cannot tell the difference.
Thanks for the comment, so sorry I didn't see this until just now. Yes, I agree that there's very little difference, I just thought I'd have a little mess around to see whether there was in this video and came to the same conclusion that you did I think. In a live band situation with a drummer beating his cymbals in to submission, there's no way you're hearing this difference, but I could FEEL the difference in tension. So I've just gone by feel rather than sound. I also agree that if you play a very complex signal chain, you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference even in isolation, so again it matters not a jot. Going direct is a great sound if you have the right amp, which you do...personally I like a little delay though. Sometimes I turn it off, just to make sure I can still play without it. I can, I just don't like it! ha! Most of my guitar gigs these days are done to backing tracks and it sounds a bit odd with the guitar so dry and the rest of the 'band' in some room sounding environment that I'm not in! Thanks again for the comment, Ben.
Interesting to hear a man with an English accent playing Mississippi Blues. Good playing Sir!!
Thanks, man! I wish I could claim some level of authenticity, but I think it would be a stretch! Weston Super Mare, is a long way from the delta...although we do have mud...
@@BenFletcherGuitarI live in Mississippi. You did a great job capturing the vibe.
Hi! Thanks for sharing this great video. This is a very important topic that we sometimes g forget about. I actually experimented with my 339 stop tail height and I can also confirm there is a difference in tension. I initially read that lowering it all the way down will make the “hollow” sound much better in this type of guitar. Honestly haven’t heard that much of difference. In fact i kept it up as I did feel a huge difference in string tension and now my 339 plays amazingly great! I think this is about finding your own guitars sweet point that best matches whatever your are looking for.
I do also laught at all the people fighting in forums. At the end all it matters is how the guitar feels and sounds for you.
Thanks once again!
Thank you for the comment! I think by the sounds of it, we've found the same thing. You're right, this is going to be personal preference and dependent on your guitar. I also have a 339 (Great guitars!) and the tail piece is off the face off the guitar by quite a bit. After experimenting, I pretty much left my Les Paul at the same height as the 339. Cheers, Ben.
Man your videos look so good!
Thanks, John! Your channel is doing amazingly well, great to see. I have no idea how you can put out so much good content, impressive.
Great video man! I've come to the same conclusion, when top wrapped or raised tailpiece you definitely loose a bit of treble but it feels soooo much better imo. The strings feel so slinky and way easier on bends. Cheers my guy
I am one who never really thought about it or cared. I just played the guitar the way it came which is usually screwed all the way down. One day just out of boredom I decided to raise the tailpiece with full intention on screwing it back down when I was done. I was shocked that I could actually hear a difference and liked what I was hearing. More so the strings felt slinkier, the 10's felt more like 9's which I also liked. Still in my mind I was convincing myself that it was just a placebo effect but decided to keep the tailpiece raised for a while. Well, it's been months and the tailpiece is still raised but if I know myself one day I'll lower it back down and be convinced that it sounds and feels better. 😂 I guess in the end just do whichever you believe is better and leave it at that.
Did the same thing and I'm happy to find out I'm not the only one feeling that the strings are slinkier. I wouldn't say they're close to 9s but it's easier and smoother to bend and since I play mostly blues it really comes in handy. I was thinking it's all in my mind/ placebo as well 🙂
Great slide playing at the end! Beautiful! :)
I've found that having the stop bar all the way down on both sides increases the string tension and break angle over the bridge of the low E, A, and D strings in comparison to the higher strings. So on my guitars I have the high E side of the stop bar all the way down, but on the low E side I raise it 2.5 to 3.5mm (depending on the guitar), so that the break angle of all 6 strings is approximately the same. And then string tension feels more even across all strings as well.
My break angle was really strong on my 339 due to its archtop. I was worried about the forward tension on my adjustable Bridge. One bump and it could push forward because of the brake angle. I raised it up almost an eighth of an inch. I didn't notice any tone change but what I did receive was peace of mind
I ponder this subject a lot. I'd probably be better off playing more! Anyway, for electric guitars in the LP, ES or SG-style I've found that as you lower the tailpiece (i.e. increase the break angle) you get a little more sustain, a slightly brighter/vibrant tone and a bit more string tension as well as more acoustic volume. To me this makes sense if you have ever noticed the saddle height/break angle relationship on acoustic guitars where a steeper break angle results are the same. It seems to be consistent. Keep in mind that electric guitars have these things called pickups that are usually played thru amplifiers and as Ben stated...all this can be EQ-ed in or out.
Definitely Not worth arguing about...
Nice video and realistic/practical way to put the differences of tail piece height into perspective...
Nice slide playing too. I enjoyed it.
Phil
NYC Area
I wrap my strings up and over the tail piece and then I raise the stop bar a fair bit. I use 11 to 50 strings and that of course makes it a little easier to play using string bends and vibrato, but what I like most is the fact that it changes the sound to a "softer" tone. You can hear it here when he demonstrates the differences in the setting of it. The tone for me of course is personal but I can't stress enough how it makes "me" feel when I hear it!!
I could definitely hear it you did a great job.
Cool, thanks man! It was an interesting test.
Must be the drugs man...
I like the raised tailpiece sound... AND bending ease is greatly improved. You can also top wrap your strings over the tailpiece. The choice is more of a personal playing preference. You can do a video on top load Tele's next.
I found that, with the tail piece all the way down, tuning stability improved greatly on my '67 Gibson SG. I had to tighten the truss rod slightly. I use 12's on my electrics by the way. As far as tone change, I never even thought about it.
Lovely slide playing at the end there 👍🏻
Thanks very much!
I agree, it isn't worth arguing about! Personal preference! Great video and an honest opinion, thanks!😊
For anyone trying to figure stuff out. I used to play a 90s Gibson les paul studio I would keep the bridge rather LOW but I knew that if I had gone lower, I risk braking strings more. I played the bridge low because the higher tension on the strings, with orange tortex picks, was the best tension to do fast technical palm muted chugging, with heavy gain. it felt and sounded very crisp. If I had raised it, the strings would have been more bendable, better for blues or softer rock. I was also tuned a half step down and using ernie ball 11's. I use 10s now but the same rules apply about the tailpiece. Definitely use big bends nut sauce no matter what. if you slam that tailpiece down you might break some strings. Ive got about 15 years without breaking a string now.
Listening on headphones, high seems to introduce a slight metallic, somewhat brighter edge to the notes and low sounds warmer, thicker tone, more jazz like. Which kinda contradicts what you say. Definitely preferred the lower sound. But ultimately you have to find the balance between tone and feel. Really good video, thanks.
Interesting, I wasn't getting that at the time. I'll have to get someone to play my clips back to me in the form a blind test and see what I make of them when I don't know which is which. Thanks, man.
+
I have 2 LPs...and had them set up by 2 different people. One guy went a little high and one guy went low (essentially touching the body). Other than a slight difference in string tension, I do not notice much difference. The only difference in sound can be attributed to the different pickups. BBs in my Standard and 490s in my Tribute. The tailpiece height doesn't make the huge difference in tone and sustain that it is fabled to.
Bought a Firebird with the tailpiece cranked down as far as it could go. I brought it halfway up and could not tell any difference in anything, sound, feel or sustain. Don't know what the other owner was trying to accomplish setting it that way. I think if there's an adjustment on something people just have to fiddle away at it.
Absolutely! Splitting hairs .
I only have one guitar with this type of bridge and tail piece, but the ones I've owned in the past, I would adjust to the height that seemed to me to be the best. I would then measure between the body and bottom of thumbwheel, and then turn that thickness of washer on the lathe. Or you can stack washers to get about the same effect. I also would wrap the threads of the bridge and the tailpiece with plumber tape(teflon). I seemed to like the tail up about a 1/4 ". Some I would set up with a top wrap and spacers under turned down snug. Why did Gibson make it adjustable? My current 335 type sounds and plays great, but when I change strings to 9's, I will ad some washers. To me the more solid the better.
Wouldn’t more vibrato with a higher tail piece (less tension) make it sustain more..?
I feel that is the disconnect.
They sound the same for held notes but feel different IMO
I can't say I noticed a massive difference in sustain either way, but you have a fair point.
I noticed a dramatic difference with tailpiece height.
It was too low on the used LP I bought, though not bottomed out. B &E strings were cutting into the bridge.
As to tone, sustain, ambiance... I'm not sophisticated to tell the difference.
Nice video man, well done. I could hear it. I'm in agreement, the difference was very slight and at the end of the day it's about your personal preference as a player regarding string tension.
Thanks man! Sorry, I missed the notification for this comment. It was very subtle difference for sure, which was good because I always worry when making adjustments that I'm not going to be able to get it back to exactly how it was when I liked it, ha! I enjoy slightly less tension on the strings so that's how I left it. Thanks again, Ben.
To many players do not understand the tailpiece at all. That is an vital part ment to be adjusted to get an good balance.
A fine adjustment not even a full turn should do if more is needed then there are problems to be found somewhere else in the chain.
The sound isn't the problem. The tension is what varies by a considerable amount. Now something no one has mentioned is the lower the tail piece the longer the string. Therefore intonation could be an issue.
I agree with the tension being affected more than the sound. I think you'd do well to hear much difference in a band situation, but you'd want to have it feeling the way you like it. I'm not an expert at all, but I doubt that intonation can be affected by overall string length. The distance between and height of the bridge and the nut would remain constant regardless of the height of the tailpiece, so I'm not sure it could affect the pitch in any way. Though with very low tailpiece and very high bridge, the string would be a few millimeters longer overall for sure.
Thanks for creating and posting this. It is very well recorded, and easy enough to hear subtle differences in a good system, particularly on clean tones! IMO, so much of the tone of electrics is about the strings and pickups, and yours sound really nice! Increasing scale length in acoustics imparts both more tension and more articulation--I can't imagine it's different in electrics--there has got to be a relationship between the tension of the string (for any given gauge) and the way it vibrates. But speaking of vibration, my understanding is that the most uncolored tone will be from an isolated string vibration, thus the attention to locking tuners, nuts, and tailpieces on some guitars. The added vibrations of the string touching the back of the bridge, or maybe a vibrating bridge or tailpiece may add a wanted or not wanted complexity to the sound, creating a unique tone. This may be why people are arguing about it (and angry?!--really!). Ideally, I think we do want to hear the wood, but only as transmitted through the nut and saddle. I personally go for the isolated string aesthetic, with as steep an angle as is possible--so, off the back of the bridge, but steep, and get complexity from tubes! Also, either installing set screws in that bridge, or going with the pre-made TonePros versions eliminates the sound of a vibrating bridge and gets more wood into tone. All these things matter, and yet, the fundamentally quality of the strings, neck, pickups and your very artful and soulful fingers most of all are what makes this all so lovely! Thanks again, you saved me some time!
Thanks for the nice comment, Stewart! You're right, there are many contributing factors to the sound of the guitar and this is indeed a very subtle one. There was a video where Rick Beato's friend Dave, was saying how his SG sounded different because his tailpiece had been put on after-market and much further back than is standard. It was sympathetic resonance he was alluding to, much the same as you mention. Similar to Jazz Masters I guess, with the long travel between bridge and tailpiece. Glad you found the video useful and thanks again, Ben.
@@BenFletcherGuitar I can attest to that result--I installed a locking roller bridge and Bigsby on a 335 and got a big jump in fullness of tone. Currently tweaking an SG, and your video helped me focus on the tailpiece aspect. I am trying to keep this one light, so not adding chunky parts! Thanks again for your efforts.
great slide stuff, congratulations! Nice vid too!
Thanks man, appreciated!
@@BenFletcherGuitar yah what slide do you use? it was great
Thanks for the video. What is the name of the inspiring background soundtrack starting at 0:10 and ending at 1:04?
Hi Anna, it's just a random jam I made, that I use for background music on this channel. I think I was messing with a 20 quid fuzz pedal at the time and that's what came out. Glad you like it. Thanks, Ben.
Like so many other things, I believe this is a matter of Season to Taste. How you dig it the most is the best way for you.
Personally, I have my favorite LP setup with 9's; bridge is pretty high because I play fingerstyle mostly with some glass slide. I have the stopbar raised up to about half the width of a quarter or 7mm, which most would say is pretty high. I suppose I could drop the stop bar by around 4mm if I over wrapped, but I've tried the over wrap with the stop bar slammed on quite a few guitars never really noticed any difference aside from a scratched up stop bar. At the end of the day I just want the strings to make it from the saddle to the tailpiece without contacting the bridge or having to steep of a break over angle.
That's just my opinion and I probably don't really know much; after all, I prefer unpotted pickups and have banjo tuners with hip shots on the a, d and g strings of my LP.
@BenFletcherGuitar im wondering ho much of a difference in the feel is when your talkn about raising it just enough to not touch on bridge. Paper gap.
Interesting. I could hear it. I always raise the tailpiece on my LPs to lessen the string tension. Each guitar is different. One I have jacked way up, the other not so much according to what each guitar likes. Unique beasts they are. I actually noticed MORE sustain on my 2023 60s model raised up off the body. So much for urban lore. Cheers, mate!
My goal is to have relatively loose tension without sitar effect. I've settled on the simple method of using a .88mm guitar pick under the high and low E strings as a spacer between the back edge of the bridge and the string. If i can slide the pick under the string easily, without it falling out or pushing up on the string, I'm good.
I would go with the low setting and file the saddles accordingly or go with roller saddles soaked in penetrating oil and grease.
Not that it needs it for any real reason other than that is just something I do anyway. I personally would need an oscilloscope to notice any difference.
An interesting topic. Just bought an Epiphone 335 dot. Looking at stopbar I did not like design as strings hit top of stopbar on way out then almost hit the back of bridge. Poor design. My solution was to raise stopbar, but to reduce tension pull on side of stopbar locating bolts I fitted spacer between body and bolt. This meant that after tightening down bolts for stopbar the strings come out just missing the top of the string hole of stopbar, possibly helping to stop breakage. This also meant a slightly easier string bending. I think also with the bolts tightened down no loss of sustain than with bolts raised up and loose.
Sounds like a good compromise to me. I thought about doing that as a test in this video, but decided to go with the most extreme examples so that you'd have more chance of hearing it over the internet. Thanks for the comment.
In my experience shallowest is the starting point (not deepest) - then adjust for feel to allow for greatest dynamic control. Always use EQ (in every form available) to finalize your tone - being careful not to remove all "liveliness" (to your ear - of course), Keep in mind RUclips compression dulls the "in the room" sound.
Slamming the tailpiece to the body creates too much string tension on the bridge and will flatten the radius over time. If there is a difference in tone when having the tailpiece to the body, I think it's because you're hearing the metal on metal contact of the studs and the bushings. If you want to have the metal on metal sound, you can buy threaded inserts and use them as a spacer to thread into the bushings. That way you can still get that metal on metal sound without ruining your bridge.
It definitely created too much tension for me. I'm not sure what would cause any difference in tone, other than the string tension itself which you would think would play a part. Yes, you could use spacers so that there's more contact, or do the top wrap thing that some people do. I'm personally fine with the bridge just floating around wherever it's comfortable, the difference in sound wasn't big enough for me to be concerned about it. Cheers, Ben.
Hi Ben I got couple questions for you, what gauge strings do you use on les paul and how do you like your action set up a les paul? Thank you do much and Merry Christmas to you and your Family.
I use 11's and have it set fairly low for a slide player. I play rock stuff on the same guitars, so it needs to work for both. Sometimes if i'm doing a blues gig and I take a second guitar for open G, I might put a 12 on the top, but that's very rare. I'd have to be playing without a band for me to do that, as it makes it easier to play a slide note on the top and keep some bass happening on the other strings. Most of the time I play in Standard tuning or standard tuning but dropped to E flat. Merry Christmas to you too and Happy New year for tomorrow! Cheers, Ben.
Regarding putting it right at the bottom - why work harder than you need to? I had an LP come back with the tailpiece at the bottom and it really isn't worth the slight change in tone in my own opinion.
I agree that it doesn't make much difference to the sound. Set it how it feels best for you and you'll play better for sure.
Its more of a feeling thing then sound. Sure theres a tiny bit of a sound difference. But less break angle and the strings play easier/bend easier.
Does tail piece height have an effect t on how bending feels and does a higher tail piece really allow string slippage over the bridge and cause your guitar to go out of tune? So many aspects. I want smoother bendability but not at the cost of going out of tune because of it.
Hi Ben, thanks for this video, beautifully played and filmed! I want to change the tailpiece on my 30 year old Less Paul... mainly for esthetic reasons...and came across your video, I did hear a slight difference in the sound, but as you say, nerd territory! I agree with the previous comment, I suppose it's about finding the sweet spot for each guitar and what feels best... too low will increase the pressure of the strings on the bridge and may cause strings to break more ofter, too high and the reduced pressure may affect the tuning stability... anyway, nice video! :)
Thanks, man! Yes, it's a very subtle difference sonically for sure. I definitely thought you could feel the difference under the fingers, so I just set mine up for what felt best to me. What kind of change to your tailpiece are you making? How will it affect the look? I'll be honest and say that I didn't know there were different options other than a standard one and a trapeze style.
@@BenFletcherGuitar Thanks for your response! I'm gonna change both the tail piece and the bridge to ones made out of solid bell brass... I think the ones I currently have on my guitar are probably made out of some sort of cheap alloy metal and then nickel plated... they have damaged over the years, the nickel surface looks pretty 'grotty'! So it's time for an upgrade! :) Of course the solid bell brass bridge will have more of an effect on the tone, probably the tailpiece material doesn't matter so much and won't affect the tone so much as the bridge does, but I might as well just replace the tailpiece with a solid brass one while i'm at it... if anything, it will always look nice ans shiny! :)
Excellent video. Blessings.
Thank you!
I screw it down to mitigate tension moment at the post inserts. With action set to medium low, the strings do not touch the bridge. I see no reason to undo the tailpiece posts at all they are best screwed down for tone and to mitigate the post insert's tendency to pull out of the body. If you want less tension then just do the wraparound option, but do screw the posts down until the flanges contact the tops of the inserts. Might want to clean the rust and corrosion off the threads of those posts also, that does kinda matter especially if you are splitting hairs with tailpiece height.
Hey man, how does your slide sound so clean and buffered? theres no noise and scratchiness. What is your slide and your settings? I'd like to play some of that stuff tonight. that slide looks ceramic. is that in standard tuning?
Thanks! I roll the tone back on the bridge pickup when playing slide. It's around 6 or even less depending how dark the amp is. It gets rid of any scratchiness. The slide is a ceramic Dunlop moonshine and also sounds pretty smooth. I had to skim through the video to see what I played. It looks like I'm in drop D, so basically standard tuning. Most of the time in a live environment I play in standard tuning and occasionally open G. Hope some of that helps, Ben.
What makes the biggest difference is the 17 degree Gibson headstock angle. Thats what creates that famous massive resonance and makes the guitar vibrate inside.
Epiphone and other Guitars dont have this. Its why they sound dull and muddy
Why not wrap the strings over the top of the tailpiece?
I've been using stopbar height to change the string tension for years. I've had some tell me the height doesn't change tension, that I'm wrong and possibly stupid, even that it's simple High School physics & wrapping the strings on the bar is ok and completely different. They totally deny it, though I know others who do the same as I do. Wrapping the strings changes the angle and makes the tension less, the same thing raising the bar does, by changing the angle. I find the naysayers amusing.
Ah yes, people say many things, especially on the internet! Ha! Best thing is always to try this stuff for yourself, especially with something like this that can be restored easily.
grat video...an touch..do you have the tailpiece simetric in height, left and right post? is that important or not?
Thank you! That's a very interesting question. It's a bit un-scientific, but I just sort of lined mine up by eye. My bridge isn't quite symmetrical in height, because I always feel like I should have the bass side a little higher because of the thickness of the strings. Obviously with it flat down to the surface of the guitar, the tail piece would be symmetrical in height. In order to have an even tension though, I guess its height should be adjusted relative to how you have your bridge set. That is of course, if you want an even tension! You might want to have more tension on the lower strings. If you experiment with it, let me know what you find! Ben.
@@BenFletcherGuitar thanks ... ok, the strat and the teles with strings through the body do not allow this option and nothing happens, maybe the asymmetry of the tailpiece helps something, in which I do not know, it should be experimented ... what is clear is that tailpiece Not decked to the wood, it allows a much more versatile adjustment in the tension of the strings, you can make a fine adjustment of your tension and improve your touch. If you add to this the action of the strings and that surely more pressure on the bridge can make the inclination of the neck change, I think that the most logical option is not to decked the tailpiece to the body with top wraping or not. The improvement in sustain is not clear. I will continue investigating
I think it just interferes with the sustain on each string sometimes
Gibson factory put it all the way down so I'm sticking to this and easier too when it comes to setting up the guitar
nice playing!!
Thanks, man!
Funny I thought with the bridge up you hit a brighter, warmer and more sustain 🤷🏻♂️😅
Snap is what high/low affects.
The strings aren't supposed to hit the back of the bridge. I had to raise my tailpiece to get clearance.it was like that new from Sweetwater. Gibson sg standard. Tha tech at Sweetwater said it doesn't matter but I disagree.
Besides the sound, if the strings touch the bridge , strings breack easier. Believe me, i played over 7000 gigs on a 335
Very helpful! Thank you.
Glad it was useful, thank you!
Tasty licks, will need to revisit with headphones
Thanks man, very kind!
I heard on net, that if you raise the tailpiece, bends become easier. Not so.. i raised it, and bends were even harder. so i put it back down as it was before after just one day, because there was no benefit at all. and i don't want to wrap strings at all, i'll just leave it as it is. for the future i'll definately not read these instructions on internet anymore. cause, in my case, it was even harder to bend with raised tailpiece. the only good advice i read was, that the strings shouldn't hit the bridge, and in my case they don't.
It might be the way you play but I thought high at more sustain and a better tone. Slight but better.
It's definitely a subtle thing isn't it? In the end, I went with the feel I wanted rather than worry about the sound too much. Thanks for commenting, Ben.
I bought a chambered '95 LP from Japan and the tailpiece was high so that strings would touch the back of the saddle. It came with a perfect setup from the shop seller. I like your chambered LP a lot.
Sounds good, seems to be quite a lot of love for mid 90's 'Pauls in the forums, In just had a quick look. Thank you! Opinions seem pretty divided on the chambered LP's, but I dig mine and got it for a nice price, so that was cool. Cheers, Ben.
I like this guy.
Thanks, mate!
It shouldn’t affect playability in the least simply due to the fact that regardless of the angle if the same string in the same thickness is tuned to the same pitch it will have the same tension otherwise it would create a different pitch what’s going on outside the vibrating portion of the string is irrelevant, just look at a Floyd Rose for example.
As for tuning stability with a greater angle and more pressure comes more potential for friction although with normal bending any movement at the bridge is minuscule and if this is a point where the string is catching for whatever reason it just needs to either be sanded smoother to avoid any potential burrs or properly lubricated with some manner of grease.
And finally as for tone a greater break angle means higher tension and less potential for sympathetic vibration which means more efficient energy transfer within the vibrating portion of the string itself and less energy loss through the tailpiece and into the guitar body, for max sustain you want as little energy being transferred into the guitar itself as possible and as much retained within the vibrating string itself although these are fairly minimal differences at best.
This is all my understanding based on my own experience and putting way too much thought into these things.
I hear more volume and definition with the tailpiece crancked down
Interesting vid. Thanks!
Cheers, mate!
Great video!!! Thanks for sharing love it!!
Thank you!
What amp are you using?thanks.
appreciate the video -- to all those picking a side and attacking others, I invite you to think about the big picture -- discerning nuances in tone over a YT video is silly - even if you discern the difference, that's about the most your going to get out of it -- that a different exists, but how the difference matters to you, with your guitar, and your amp, with your band, at your volume..... please, that's just not going to happen. Humans like to feel special - and one way to feel special is to be an uber expert on a given topic - and one way to appear to be an uber expert on a topic, is to have some sort of secret knowledge that no one else knows - even if that perceived knowledge had no impact in reality -- With most things (not specific to guitar, but baseball, math, computer science, beer brewing, etc.... ...), having some specific knowledge, of how something is effects something or is better than something else or a "thing" no one knows and then follow it up with "but its to each persons taste" is not helpful. People are looking the "why" and something that will help them decide if its worth spending outs contemplating or just picking a horse and running with it. Its like saying certain type of batting glove is better than another for some unscientific reason, then saying "but its up to each person to decide what they like" - not helpful, but makes the person feel like they are an expert. The real question is -- when the designers and engineers designed the tailpiece, what was the purpose and the driver factor for making it adjustable - probably would have be easier to make it fixed - but they made it adjustable for some reason. if you know that, then you can probably make a decision whether or not to adjust. I do not know why they designed it this way but im sure someone knows the answer
From your comments I see you are, like me, using one guitar for both regular and slide while in standard tuning👍 I would be very interested to hear about how you approach that. Like for one thing, where do you keep your slide so it’s easy to use for slide parts, out of the way for non slide parts, and convenient to go between both?
Yes, that can be a pain in certain instances. I play open tuning on blues gigs sometimes, as it gives me access to particular sounds/techniques, but for the most part my gigs are quite pop/rock orientated. I'm basically shoe-horning in slide where it doesn't belong! ha! That's why I chose to play standard, so that I could use it at any time. I imagine you might be the same? In recent years I've found I'm almost wearing it the whole time unless there's a need to use the little finger for certain parts. I use very economical chords to allow this. I'm happy to sacrifice sounding like the record for sounding like me, so this may not be ideal for a lot of people. I also chose to play with the little finger, as most of the time I'm in a trio situation. Having the three fingers free, made for easier chording. Failing that I just keep the slide in my back pocket, ready to whip it out (giggedy). It's funny so many people in England at regular gigs, don't know what it's for. I've had people asking if I've broken my finger, like it's a splint! Or asking if it makes it easier to play because 'it hurts when you push the strings down doesn't it?!' A child told me on Saturday night that, 'it was stupid, because it doesn't do anything' The band thought that one was hilarious! Thanks for the comment, Ben.
Low increase attack. good for rhythm
Hi increase round sound like human voice or cello
Do you think somewhere between the two, gives you something of both those qualities? Or does the tailpiece have to be touching the body for the increased attack?
@@BenFletcherGuitar i like the sound when is hi, but the best of two worlds is find the sweet spot
Warping arround maybe will be a god option
Enjoyed video give me an opportunity to see things
from a different perspective
Thanks man, glad you liked it. It's an interesting topic that I've seen come up quite a bit in forums. I'd definitely give it a try for yourself and see what works for you. Cheers, Ben.
I hear with the higher tail piece the sound is much brighter, more dynamic, no ? higher sound better for me.
My LP has the tail down to the body with the strings wrapped around to sort out the angle...i guess it's supposed to add sustain and resonance, more things In contact with the body the more depth and vibration right? I dunno.... Looks cool though! Nice vid, couldn't hear a difference through my phone, speakers were better.
That Les Paul Custom I had, best sustain I've had on a guitar... And that had a high tailpiece and the bridge had been put on backwards 🤣 maybe there's something in that, I look forward to the 'reverse bridge' video...
@@iaineccleston8790 I'm gunna try it with the bridge at the neck end and the tuners near the pickups, I think that's the answer! From my experiment here I'm just going to say that the tension is affected by the tailpiece height in relation to the bridge, which may impact the sound. The actual height of it makes absolutely sod all difference though I think. To those of us that have hearing within the range of normal human tolerances anyway.
@@iaineccleston8790 Side note, 30 views...looks we have another winner on our hands...
@@BenFletcherGuitar don't sweat it man. Your content is good and your playing is awesome. Most of the time I just listen to you tones and don't comment though. I get it can be frustrating for you to get ideas, film and edit videos and at the end have only few viewers but you are one of the few channels I subscribed to at the first vid. And I am picky :) On a side note, you should definitively get a custom channel URL ( ruclips.net/channel/UCVPrSgOJLWp1r6wz39q89Tg is less user firendly than channel/BenFletcher imho ) Please keep on going !
@@snaguber Thanks, man! I was just thinking out loud there. (No, not Ed Sheeran!) I appreciate the subscription. I'll have a look at the URL thing as this is the 1st I'm hearing about it, cheers for the heads up. Ben
You can actually bend the strings a little with it raised up can't ya?
Thumbs 🆙 great video.
Thanks, man!
Great Video 👍 I totally agree with you ✌️Nice Playing 🙌 Subscribed 🙏
Thank you, very kind and the subscription is much appreciated. Ben.
Did you leave it up ,,or down to body??
That's a good question! Somewhere in between. Personally, I can't hear any tonal benefit to having it touching the body, so I just used it as a way to create the amount of tension on the strings I wanted to feel.
@@BenFletcherGuitar I just bought a gem,it is right up,havnt plugged it in to check it out yet,,but feels as though there's plenty of give in the strings
Higher sounds better to me. LOL. Probabaly alot less string break and tension issues too.
You get it!!!
Very helpful. (Nice Axe!)
Glad you found it useful and thank you, I like that guitar and I got it for a bit of a steal. Cheers, Ben.
My Compliments. In most YT attempts: the individual cannot even tune a guitar much less play it in your class !!! Anyway....Thanks for tackling a confusing subject!!
Guy can play
Too kind!
You can clearly see that it's much easier to play with bride all the way up, looser strings, easier to play, imo
It makes no difference as the string is free to vibrate where it makes a difference, over the pickup. Prove it to yourself. Record a passage on a looper and record open string sound. Analyze the time and height of the two and tell me what you see. If there 😊is any difference the tension on the tune is culprit.
Great
Doesn't make sense..lower more bright... Low- tight to the wood so you get warmer tone.
Do what works for you. Ignorance is bliss... it really doesn't matter what someone else thinks about your preference
Let it be known...I'm angry about the height of this man's tail piece! I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
Haha!
good on ya buddy..well said..thats the truth & reality..no need for mega distortion hiding tone...simple riff,played the same way...over & over you can hear the change...thats the point of your vidio hey..is there a difference,,
,,lol
Screwing stop bar down to body will break strings on the bridge. Tone change is imagination, most likely fake information started by sting marketing genius, and everyone fell for it. 😁 Getting angry about this crap is nuts, if you want to screw it down go for it. just expect to change string more often is all I am saying. If you go over the stop bar with the string (top wrap) and not through, it is a good idea to screw the stop bar down all the way.
The Gibson custom shop puts it all the way down. Just saying.
It's like night and day difference I always slam the tailpiece.
For you maybe. Not for all.
No that's for everyone @@spooky3120
If you really want controversy, talk about pickguard vs no pickguard on a Les Paul. OOOoo00000OOOoooo
hey! his beard has a Burst finish on it ha ha ha
Another one of these half the video running your mouth
I completely disagree about the “high end loss” whenever the strings were higher. To me it sounded like the strings were brighter whenever you made them higher. It also sounded like there was more attack present.
I have two les Paul style guitars, the one with the higher bridge has more bite to me.