Should You Top Wrap Your Les Paul
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- Опубликовано: 27 янв 2019
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As always, whenever i question myself about any gimmicky things such as top wrap or not, you give me the most accurate answer. So glad i subscribed to your channel years ago.
Saw RUclips now is in the business of determining whether the comments you make raises the correct argument. My attitude was generally that I have a top wrapped guitar that was set up better than my other p Gibson's so I don't know whether the top wrap makes the difference or not. The most guitar texts I know so it doesn't make a difference but this video at least it shows that it makes some whatever difference but I don't play with like a strange so I'm used to bending 11s with zero discomfort because the scale length is a far cry from 25.5 like a Strat which I string with tens, when you put heavy gauge strings on a strat the instrument automatically not only bends easier but sounds better when you've got it turned down a half step breathing a whole step because the strings tend to vibrate more and and the notes bloom better in any case because I wasn't talking strictly about top wrapping the entire time RUclips and its infinite wisdom said that my argument was inappropriate. Sorry Gustavo I guess freedom of expression is no longer
I have a lot of guitars. I top wrapped 2 of them. I never noticed a difference because I never imagined there would be a difference. Thought never occurred to me. It’s pretty cool that you went through the effort of analyzing that
Thanks for finally answering my questions about top wrapping my Les Paul. I'm keeping it the original way. I like your shirt.
Thank you for clearing this up. I just unboxed my new Gibson Les Paul Gold top. I've been seeing tons of "fixes" for this guitar and really seem to know your shtuff!
Incredibly interesting! Thank you for putting this out!
Good enuf for me!! I saw it with my own eyes. Cause and effect is the why of it. I'll be sticking with the not rapping. Thank you for taking the time to do this!
Interesting video thanks for posting 👍I top wrap my guitars that don’t have anchor bushings so the bridge posts don’t loosen and bend from too much downward tension over time, this also allows me to clamp the stop tailpiece down closer on the body. Some people coming from longer scale length guitars like the added tension and it rings a little differently with the added string length.
Any note is technically the same given tension when at rest, top-wrapped or not. Strings are more compliant with top-wrapping because slightly more overall string length. More give and stretch there so it translates to a little more in the main string area, thus it feels like less 'tension' as it bends a bit easier. But you also have to bend more distance to reach the increased tension to hit the next note...as tension for every note at rest remains the same. So it's a combination of things that translates into feel. It's more distance to bend, but less felt resistance. Kind of like a difference in shock absorption, like a soft ride with more bounce compared to a harder, stiffer ride.
Fascinating. The reason I top wrapped was in an effort to increase tuning stability by keeping the string in more of a straight line. I want to try raising the tailpiece and see what happens.
I top-wrapped my Les Paul once. I couldn't go two days before I had to re-string it the regular way again. I really didn't like how it felt top-wrapped. I do like to raise the tailpiece a little bit, it's subtle, but I think it plays better that way than all the way down. Interesting experiment, thanks, Dylan!
Interesting! If it is a purely string length thing I would expect the same effect for a top loaded versus string-through body telecaster. Should be easy to verify using a wilkinson ashtray bridge.
Brilliant Video. Keep them coming.
Hi Dylan. Your test is accurate and makes perfect sense. Your string length is increased by around 3/4 of an inch on a wrap, so this also increases the floating string mass, hence extended movement to achive a full note bend. You are also correct that wrapping over the bridge changes the node point to the upper - rear portion of the bridge creating a levered angle on the rear side of the bridge bolts. This does introduce stress on the Bridge Bolt base, and in extreme circumstances, causes the threaded base to lift away from the nbody. I have no clue how this trend started, I did hear one story that Frank Zappa did it to counteract sympathetic string-ring but I have never encountered that anomoly on a Lespaul in that area between the saddle & the bridge. My theory is that maybe guitarists that changed from say a Strat which has a longer scale length to a shorter scale length such as the Lespaul did this to prevent over bending! Great video!
@@oneeyemonster3262 Man I got to much intergrity to insult you back. Good luck with that dude!
Arthur Brown that also makes me wonder if top wrapping would make it easier to downtune a guitar since there’s more tension on the strings. It seems like if you had the right scale length, you can tune low without the need of a longer scale length per se.
@@Stretchwreckedem469 you have it back wards....if you raise the tail piece..it'll
make the string softer...wraping it over the top with will achieve the
samething. Down tuning would make it even softer....
Or if you had HEAVIER gauge strings..such as 11 for the High E.
What dose do is....incase you have the bride saddle
adjustment screws towards the back..it'll prevent the strings from
hitting the screw heads..if you were LAZY....you'll just wrap it over..
instead of having to re intonnate the saddles ...which can be time consuming...
I personally think it's RETARDEd FAD. Just like some people dont clip
the strings on the head stock...in their mind it looks cool....becuase
Schenkers dosnt clip his strings.....but it'll cuase all kinds of
UN WANTED strings rattling noise....
If you own a GIBSON copies....the tail piece are mounted even further back.. which which will also makes the strings softer.
very instructive test thank you very much mate, keep on rocking
Great approach, as objective as possible! Very interesting. I top wrap only because (from my experience) it helps me breaking less strings over the saddles. Never actually felt differences in tone or feel!
Bear in mind that you can raise your tailpiece in lieu of top-wrapping to affect the same angle presented to the bridge.
@@stephensaines7100 but then you lose the toan-energy transfer from the tailpiece to the wood
@@stephensaines7100 hey sorry for my late answer ...yeah I know, but a raised stopbar feels quite uncomfortable (to me) when playing, so I top wrap and screw down the tailpiece. It feels comfortable and reduces break angle
Exactly my experience as well !!!
🤘🏻😎🎸
I think I might take you up on your offer and do a different version of this test. Fascinating!
Cool video and pretty interesting results. I still top wrap for break angle though.
YOU ANSWER RIGHT 👌
Thank you 💙
I've being search ling time for the right thing. ....and THIS particular way to find it.
The next step is to know if (with same strings) "Slim Taper" vs "Rounded" have exactly the same tension 🙏😉
That's my principal curiosity now...
Love the topic!
Yep, I’m goin there!
Never heard about the bending. Minimizing the breakangle on either end puts less downward force at the nut or bridge. The less down force, the less friction and the less friction, the less it goes out of tune. Same reason people lube the ends.
The other notable benefit is the E string is less likely to snap from the bridge cutting into it.
I just unscrew the tail piece so it sticks up and get the same effect.
Tuning stability and string breaking are the two main reasons I topwrap. You are 100% correct, raising the stopbar does the exact same thing for tuning and string breakage. This is the same reason I use a string butler. The reason I choose to topwrap instead of raise the bridge, however, is picking comfort. Topwrapping, IMO, feels MUCH more comfortable to rest your picking hand on then through-stringing.
@@willcresson8776 Is not only the playability or if you play more confortable to play. all the tailpiece touch the wood and you have more sustain. that is the first reason of topwrap.
@@macauley70 no it doesn't
Why not?@@adamwilcox6405
Very interesting video, love stuff like this 🤘
Thanx for taking the time to do this demo. One advantage of top wrapping, only for a strong handed player, would be a wider axis for adding finger vibrato to a bended note and also finding in between notes that are difficult to nail. Maybe this information would be useful to some players with strong hands.
I knew exactly this would be the result although I didn't expect the difference would be so huge. It is very huge in the case of the reverse Strat headstock which is much, much, much more easy to bend (the plain strings I mean), because of the shorter lenght to the tuner post. The reason (in the case of the top wrap and normal strat headstock) is that you need the force to stretch the vibrating portion of the string but then you need extra force to stretch the additional inches of string that are at the other side of the scale lenght. Only imagine that your guitar has a 3m long headstock and a 3m long tailpiece, then you would need to stretch the string a lot further (even off the fretboard) to achieve maybe just a semitone bend.
As you rightly say: when bent (or picked or whatever), the whole string moves and tenses. Not just between saddle and nut, but end to end. So two things happen here: as you note, more friction, and also a greater overall length of string to stretch, ergo more pressure required. By wrapping the string around the stopbar, you basically add .75 to 1 inch of string or so. Give or take: as much as needed to essentially eliminate the benefit of the Les Paul's shorter scale length in terms of ease of bending compared to a Strat or Tele. And by the way, the exact same thing happens on the other end, which is why you should be careful how much string you wind onto the tuning machine. The fewer the turns, the shorter the string, the easier to stretch out, the better the tuning stability, and the easier the bends. So actually for the comparison to be accurate in your experiment, the string should be would to the same number of turns on the machine head, but as a seasoned pro you probably got that right anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I put locking tuners wherever I can, there's no better way to limit excessive string length headstock side.
Now from the above, there's also a conclusion to be drawn as to what a very legit reason to top wrap a Les Paul could be: players who usually play 25.5 in scale length guitars and only pick up a 24.75 in for the occasional song or two may prefer having tenser strings on the Les Paul while using the same string gauge, so that it feels more like their usual Strat or Tele. Where that really matters is when you play a lot of pre-bent notes. Because then you bend to pitch not by ear but by muscle memory, so you need to know in advance how much pressure to apply. If you train on a Strat and then you apply the same pressure on a Les Paul, your pre-bend will go sharp. Top wrapping is one way to compensate for that.
But frankly, that's still a lot of hair splitting in the land of guitar nerdom. I really don't know that Strat-bound monster benders like David Gilmour or Mark Knopfler ever top wrapped their Les Pauls. We should all just get out there and play the damn thing, wrapped whichever way we like. Rock on!
Splendidly put Sir
Longer strings are easier to stretch, and shorter strings are harder to stretch as the amount of stretch represents a lower % of the overall length of the longer strings. Still, it would appear that you need to stretch them further anyway so there's no advantage to top-wrapping in terms of bending notes.
Hi Dylan, I've been watching your channel for a while now. I appreciate the information you put out in your vids. My 1st Gibson was also the SG Jr. But I bought mine a year before you got yours. I bought mine because it was light as a feather, and rang with resonance unplugged, I didn't even plug it in before I bought it because of this. I do wish it had a chunkier neck, I just love fat necks, the Warmoth boat neck is one of my faves. As far as top wrapping, I don't do it just because I don't want to mark up my tail piece. Oh my lp is an Epiphone TV special marked Epiphone limited edition custom shop, It's still a Chinese Epiphone, it has no binding on the neck and it has those mini pots. I planned on replacing the pickups and pots, but never did because it actually sounds great. Oh yeah back to top wrapping, your test was interesting, I think my SG Jr with wrap around bridge seems like it takes more force then my other guitars to bend the note a whole step, I usually use 10's, but bought some 9and a half to try next time I change the strings. Peace... Jim
I was thinking about doing this . Thanks. I just need thinner strings now as I prefer slinkier feel.
That's awesome!! Thanks for sharing that info!! 🙏✨👏
I do it, because I like the tailpiece down on the deck, just like the original Les Paul were before the adjustable bridges and saddles came into play. It sounds good to me and feels okay. I use 8 - 8.5 gauge strings.
You need to wear a green cap when doing the test due to green and gravity both starting with the letter G, which is also what guitar starts with. That is science, pal, can't avoid it.
also weed is naturally green
@@darkmotherboard272 that’s very true.
'Stringyfied' not 'Bendified'
Thanks for this video! I had to subscribe just because of your shirt! :) Seriously though, I just wanted to find out what the deal was with top-wrapping, just recently saw this and wondered why. I think it's just for the "cool factor", I'll stick with the traditional string setup, thanks again!
Great video and explanation!!
Thanks for doing this test the results are interesting and a little surprising. I did top wrap my LP at one time but couldn't honestly say it felt easier to bend. So I went back to the normal bridge arrangement. One thing for sure though if you are looking for really obvious decrease in string tension that really does make string bending more comfortable then tune down. Even a semitone makes a noticeable difference, I settled on a tone which feels really comfortable to my rather thin fingers. Combine that with light strings for example as Tony Iommi does and it will make a big difference.
Ps . It makes no real difference , except for me ,resting my palm on the saddle it helps me to know what string I’m going after.
I keep my eyes closed a lot so I call it playing by brail.
Yeah good idea...lol I use my pinky instead of palm when soloing Palm when chording
Thank you, Dylan. I was going to top wrap on my next string change. Not now
Top wrapping is for Heavy-Handed players, like myself. I Top wrap because I feel like I bend chords (especially the D) out of shape less. Also I seem to be more accurate with my bends when Top Wrapped. The tension demo explains it for me. Also I started as an acoustic player, so maybe its a more natural break angel/tension feel for us Heavy Handed ppl. :)
Thank again....you videos Always teach me so much.
thanks for the effort,this sounds similar to people claiming that angled claw in a strat gives you equal tension and better stability....
I replaced my stop tailpiece with a Gibson TP6 on my LPX 34yrs ago so I'm good!
Hey Dylan ... I appreciate the videos man ... just an FYI ... I heard that top wrap increases sustain. I purchased a Gibson smoke house a few years back and was disappointed that it just didn't play as well as expected for a 2000$ guitar. I noticed that the tail piece was as high as it would go and that the bridge would not go any lower. I also noticed a very sharp break angle and some of the strings were even touching the back side of the bridge. It was ... as I am aware of now ... just a good example of the poor quality issues Gibson had gone through at that time. That's when I finally decided that if I want my guitars to sound and play the way I want then I would have to learn how to set them up myself. since I couldn't make the adjustments to reduce the break angle by adjusting the bridge or tail piece I decided to over wrap. I timed the sustain before making the change and again after over wrapping. It made a substantial difference in sustain. I didn't notice any difference in playability other than that although I am sure it does make a bit of difference. More so now that I have seen your video. Thank you.
I think less pressure/longer way to bend contributes to better playing feel, even of it‘s theoretically not easier or more efficient.
Regular strung guitars with the tailpiece all the way down sound a little dead to me sometimes. Raising the tailpiece (or topwrapping) usually results in a positive change.
Great test. I speculate that this might be the case because top wrapping increases the overall string length between the anchor points. On a bend your bending a longer string than a through tailpiece setup - since the strings must stretch over the tailpiece. That may account for more bend to reach the same pitch. If that's true I expect the results would be more pronounced on a guitar with a trapeze or Bigsby tailpiece, which increased overall string length even more.
@DylanTalksTone It's all about the ratio of scale vs. total string length. The longer the string the higher the string tension to get it in tune, but with the scale length being a constant this means higher string tension. And it doesn't make the guitar worse, it just makes it different. With the higher string tension when top wraping you should be able to lower the bridge for lower action without fret buzz.
Great demo. This has been my experience as well. I don't have big hands, so when it becomes harder to bend, it's very noticeable to me. I tried top wrapping to match the break angle with the nut and it took more effort to play. I'm going back to slamming the tailpiece down in maybe too weeks -- I want to give it sometime to see if there are any hidden benefits that I'm not noticing.
08:21
One thing I'd like to point out in your demo that actually makes your point stronger is this part: the string has to travel farther across the fingerboard to reach the same pitch. However, in this part, you are only hooking/measuring ONE string. In reality, most of the players pushes ALL the adjacent strings. So if you have travel more across, you are also bending the adjacent strings MORE, so it'd be even harder.
I top wrap my wound strings on my Les Paul because I actually found that I perceived the hybrid slinkies I use to feel a little tighter that way, I also like to rest my hand on the strings behind the saddles for picking on the low strings and find this more comfortable.
I think the next test should be the same for 9s vs 10s. It might give fun results. For this video, I believe the distance the top wrap moved is the result of less tension on the string, meaning distance isn’t correlated to tension. So I predict that on a 9s vs 10s test, the distance you are measuring will result in the similar results in this video. But you will certainly feel that 9s are obviously easier to bend than 10s even though the distance on the 9s will be more than 10s.
So u mean if i put 9s normally would still be softer feel than top wrapped 10s? becoue this si my problem as a new LP owner.
to add to your point my experience of this (since watching his video) is that it is like going from 10s to 9s (or at least the feeling of it) but a whole new dimension opens up when you put a thicker gauge string (like 11s) and having it feel like a (10.5) whilst having more sustain because you can flush the tailpiece but on top the thickness of the string gives you a fatter tone - top wrapping also opens up more mids whilst the standard way of wrapping is focused more around the upper mids. this is all just a matter of preference but the sacrifice of bending a note with more power gives you other things to play with - on the other hand when you move a string slightly for micro expressions its also easier and the tone of it is thicker so its like a balancing scale
Wow! That surprises me. I know I like the ‘feel’ of top wrap better. It must be the amount of movement of the string that makes it feel slinkier.
Informative. Thanks!
Did not expect that much difference in the bend. However would say that since the distance from tail piece to string post is increased does this improve tuning stability? Great video and test either way well done!
Probably what this means is with top wrapping the same amount of displacement across the fingerboard from the rest position of the string produces less change in pitch. That also means you can press down the strings harder/softer while holding a chord without changing the pitch of the notes as much.I guess you would call that being slinky?
Then, because you need to displace the strings more to reach the tension (pitch) of a full or half bend, you need to exert more force vertically, that is simple geometry given that for the same note the tension along the string will be the same.
I will try top wrapping my LP at some point just because the neck angle is large on mine, and with my choice of action the tailpiece is too high and I can see a bit of unpainted wood around the screws (below the surface of course), which I would prefer not to see. However, considering there is at least one downside, which is scratching the top of the tailpiece, I don't know if I will keep it top wrapped for long.
I remember Zakk Wylde saying the same thing about top wrapping. I found the same thing with it. Since Les Paul's have the shorter scale length I feel like you can get decent tension with lighter strings so that's why I like it.
Duane Allman did it so good enough for me lol and it might be purely a feel thing I don't always go for the scientific angle when it comes to art If it feels easier it is easier Lot if people do it so must be a reason
What I notice from play Les Paul guitar and even Explorer!
I stop toprap those because I did brake more strings as I did...
And I fix the issue I hade the string hangup on the EBR1 so I put washers on the bolt to my tailpice and tight it to the body to achieve more and longer sustain!
And it did work awesome !
Sesns 30 your back I no longer plays Gibson but that my help people forward on...
Best regards from Sweden 🇸🇪
I have 2 les paul std, one top-wrapped, one not. The reason I top-wrapped one is that the neck set angle is higher than the other, so the strings hit the back of the bridge before they reach the saddles, and I have to raise the tail piece so high that I'm worried it doesn't have enough threads in the base studs and may damage the guitar. That's one common reason to do it. Interesting finding about tension -nice one!
there is plenty of thread. People don't know this, but the tail piece was designed to be raised
@@DylanTalksTone I top wrap mine for the sa,me reason. I realize that yes you can "raise" the tail piece BUT why doesn't Gibson do this simple check at the factory and raise it there. They do not fix this because it affects the looks of the guitar which affect sales. Who wants a tail piece where it is raised and you can see the threads? If Gibson cared about things beyond looks they would fix the head angle, the angling for the strings from the nut to the tuning keys, and this issue where the angle of the string from the tail piece to the back of the bridge is too sharp,
@@Fender5621 yes it just depends on the guitar If too severe a break angle it does help On his intro pic the studs weren't down all the way That's the best way to top wrap AGAIN it all really depends on the guitar
makes sense! the old-timey hollow body electric set up where the tail piece is like a mile away from the bridge makes the strings super hard to bend right? kind of crazy that top wrapping makes a 1/4 pound difference in this test though.
Hey Dylan, love the shirt! Weed is a very beautiful place at the base of the volcano! Mt. Shasta will hopefully stay dormant ;) Bob in Germany... formerly of California.
my family lives there
Hi. Ss far as I know, the main reason for top wrapping is not to reduce effort while bendind, but rather to teduce friction at the bridge, due to wider break angle of the string and hence reduce or prevent tuning issues.
Hence indeed
Would you please do a video comparing a Telecaster that can also be toploaded and give your thoughts and impressions ❓Thanks.
Thank you for the info. I was about tp top wrap my Gibson, i wont to that, makes sense more friction will cause more force to bend the strings.
I never really knew anyone thought it made differences like that, I started doing it some time ago because I thought it looked cool.
I have a Fender Traveler. The tuners are in the middle of the body and all the strings wrap a big roller at the bottom. Even with low action it is a pig. I think it is because of the overall stretch from the string on the south side of the bridge. Think about it this way, the longer the overall length of the string is the tighter you have to make the string to get pitch. I think the best reason is the wrap over makes the strings a tad longer and it is apparent enough to add a touch of pressure to stretch notes....the string is actually stretched a little tighter because of the overall length of the string....or...your guess is as good as mine....hehe
What about tuning stability? It seems to me that the sharper angle at the bridge, the more tendency for the string to hang up in the bridge peice slots and cause tuning issues. By decreasing the angle the string has less tension and can slide more easily across the bridge piece slot. On my main guitar - a '99 Les Paul hollowbody the tail piece studs are quite loose and wobbly when not screwed down tight to the body, therefore, top wrapping seemed like the ideal solution to get a get a better angle at bridge, so the strings not are hitting the back of the bridge AND there no issues with a wobbly tail piece. I also *subjectively* thought it felt a bit better. I'm a 50+ year pro player and have played this guitar for 20 years with the same gauge strings, so I do know how it feels.
just use some nutt juice.
Thx so much 💪🏻, maybe a lp with topwrapping has slinky strings but no for bends and not sound the same too. I go with the "normal" way ✌🏼🙏
thanks for your video it s very well done. i have my theory which means probably nothing, that is:
with tw the string is looser though it is the same tuning as non tw.
with non tw the string is kind of really tight, when bending you dont have to go very far up because it is already tense. so it goes up in pitch real fast
when non tw the string is loose so you need to go further up when bending . it goes up to pitch a bit slower because there was less tension right from the start
please be free to comment and correct me because i know nothing from nothing
THEY JUST IMAGINE IT TUNEING IS UNSTABLE AS WELL THANKS DYLAN FOR PROVING THIS. PLAYING WITH 10S ANYWAY
I'm surprised, I would have thought the longer the string from start to stop, the easier it would bend. And like you said, 150 grams can not be error.
Very interesting video. One of my customers over wraps his les paul for bending.
Maybe it's the further bend that makes it feel easier.
very interesting. i was just about to top wrap too, lol. nope! thanks!
Don't really go for science when talking about feel especially if they are using a cheap device Not saying that was done but going to try it for myself then make a decision I just got a new Standard and it does have quite a break angle so 5 bucks for a set of string's Nothing against anyone's research just want to see for myself All good
Try an experiment with the stop piece in different positions. I'd be very curious to know if that really makes a difference.
Interesting! I never top wrapped strings, but rather increased the tailpiece height. I didn't really noticed any change in slinkyness however.'
I just thought lowering the string tension would prevent the risk of bridge collapse.
You've changed the effective distace to your anchor point. Going around is longer. You have to stretch more string, requiring more energy, to get the same pitch deflection. BTW, love the ska track you're playing underneath.
Tuning stability and I just think it looks cool
I overwrap my SG was for comfort rather then tone not that I noticed any difference in tone or bending although bendy was more noticeable after a guitar tech did a full setup for me. Oh the comfort is for my picking hand 🖐
I play in D standard tuning so I can use some extra tension to keep the action low without using thicker strings.
I top wrap the bottom 3 strings E, A, and D for a flatter surface to rest my palm on (I normally us Floyd Rose Trems) plus I feel they sustain better, and use regular mounting for the top strings for more sustain with a better break angle. I don't bend the bottom 3 as radically as I do the top.
After strings are broke in a difference in bending is noticed. 11’s top wrapped and not too much bridge angle give me more control of the bend, less over bend. With 10’s not top wrapped more bridge angle is needed. This is my playing ability and area of choice with Dadario strings.
This is how I see it... When we stretch strings to raise the pitch we are stretching from the ball end to where the string terminates at the tuning machine. We are stretching the bit of the string that is wrapped around the tuning machine so more wraps around the tuning machine has a similar effect as top wrapping at the tailpiece. In order to reach a specific pitch we have to increase the tension by a specific percentage of the total length of the string - which is why the string had to be pulled farther with the top wrap. Some Jazz guitars, including the Ibanez GB10, have an adjustable tailpiece which changes the total length of the strings (in the case of the GB10, its three at a time). This feature is used to adjust the string tension. I tried top wrapping once, years ago, and abandoned it for two reasons - the wrap at the ball end of the string exposed the end of the string which cut into my palm and scratched the top of the tailpiece. A 335 with a stop tailpiece feels different than a 335 with a trapeze - again, because the longer string length requires more of a bend to reach a specific pitch. Locking tuners also make a difference because there is no 'wrap' at the tuning peg.
I've been a player since the late 60s. I was having a discussion with another les paul owner about top wrapping the strings. I believed that it while changing the break angle would make the string easier to bend. Thanks to your video and a few others, I will not be top wrapping the strings on my R0 Les Paul. All my best to you.
Thanks!
Interesting! Thanks 😎
Damn, 150g! I've never tried it but I really wasn't expecting that much of a difference. Maybe try lifting the tailpiece next, see if that makes any difference as I've heard that myth bandied about just as much as top-wrapping. Another great video Dylan, thank you.
Overall string length is the reason for more stretch needed. The "friction point" as mentioned on top of the tail piece isn't a stop. Also, a fretted string (not demo'ed) might not need an unreasonable amount of travel distance to reach the desired pitch. Scientifically? Well... it seems you need to stretch the string further to achieve the desired pitch. So, you are negating the benefit of a loose string by having to stretch the string more. What might be a benefit? Maybe, the "sweet spot" harmonic grows a bit wider with a longer string?
Probably has been said but my guess is that the string is longer so there is a lot more slack to take up meaning you've got to move it further to reach the same pitch.
I top wrap my Gibson SG because when strung in the conventional manner the strings contact the back edge of the bridge putting pressure on it which will eventually bend the bridge posts forward. That is what happened to an old GoldTop of mine and I had to replace the entire bridge assembly.
Interesting. It makes sense that you'd have to move the string further when top-wrapping as there's more string to stretch, which also accounts for the increased effort. The perceived reduction in effort required that many people report is probably because a longer 'throw' kind of spreads out the effort, making it 'feel' slinkier. I do a lot of 'snappy' bends when I'm soloing - straight up to a note and back down again, often on several strings consecutively in a decending run - sounds different to sliding up a couple of frets and a short throw is definitely going to be snappier than a long throw would be. I was thinking about trying top-wrapping on my Les Pauls but, since it would mess up that fundamental part of my playing style, meh, I'll pass.
great test! but the feeling is all about the angle... top wrap or not, is the angle that make it light or hard to bend...
I really like how you controlled the experiment and used some comon items to use actual measured results.... with that said its not just break angle they also reference the string being technical a little longer helps with the bending.... That is what "they say"
like the J. Page double need with the tail peices set way back on the guitar... again just the other thing "they say"
I heard you get better sustain with Top Wrapping not just better action if you screw the tail piece right down to contact the body. Makes sense to me.
I would say as you bend it's easier. Once you're at the note you would want it to be tighter, and it is. I also hear an improvement in tone. Interesting test!
I’m guessing the added friction of the string on the bar is making it harder to bend.
Clinches it for me, Thanks for the test.
the reason I've heard of doing it is because of the break angle touching the rear of the the saddle bridge. but it does take tesion away, i've done it both ways and felt it. i was using 12-52 strings also.....
Dylan I am new to your channel and this is an older post. I think that this is the same effect as bending to pitch on a floating trem verses a decked/blocked trem. What do you think? Thanks for all your work sir.
My last string change I top wrapped and lowered the tailpiece. My junior is top wrapped and my studio matches.
Looks better.
I thought that Top Wrapping was to reduce the break angle at the bridge and allow you to tighten the stop-bar screws a bit more. I like the feel of the top-wrapped strings under my right palm, but I don't feel any difference when I bend.
I just bought a 1978 Gibson The Paul. My guess is that the previous owner used it for slide playing. The bridge was so high it made it hard to play cords and single notes. Wouldn't be anywhere near in tune. And to compensate for the high bridge the pickup's were way high. And the tail piece was all the way down. Now I do play slide but I am a lead guitarist. I have done all the adjustments. It plays great now. I was watching this video and felt I should let you know that your video's have been helpful. And if you look at my channel picture you will see my truck in front of Mt Shasta at the Weed Airport. I live about 40 miles north of there. Peace and happiness brother
I think top wrap helps strings to keep clear from touching to back end of the bridge when the tailpiece is very low or when the bridge has to be high due to angle of the neck to the body.
Raise the tail piece ... problem solved. That’s why Gibson made it adjustable.
That's true! I just did the same to my SG because I wanted the tail piece to touch the body. I heard that it increaces sustain, slinky strings and duane allman, joe b and others do it too but it was just awful! Really hard to play and the break angle wasnt even too drastical. I wont do it anymore. I also noticed that the tone of my guit was darker and I didnt like it.
Isn’t the function of the tail piece to influence the break angle which in turn effects the tension. Top wrap is equivalent to raising the bridge which in turn decreases the break angle resulting in less tension at the saddles. The string sits higher when you top wrap , you can accomplish this by raising the bridge as well.
That is a suprise , thank you for that test.
What's your thoughts on a Schaller 455/456 bridge setup. ALL THE BEST SIR
Cool Video. made me check the tailpiece on my one les paul style guitar (a Charvel). realized i put a new setup on it for Drop C, heavier strings, intonated it, but didn't check the tailpiece height! sure enough, every string is hitting the bridge before getting to the saddle. whoops!
Also made me take a good look at my BC Rich Bich with a single piece hard-tail like Kahler bridge that is Designed for the strings to wrap around. As i suspected the entire piece is rounded, so the string touches no edges what so ever. if anyone ever wants to see what a perfect bridge looks like, look at any Kahler bridge ever.
There might be more force needed to bend the string up a certain amount of pitch but you also showed that to get to the same distance it takes less force. That would mean that simply fretting the strings should be marginally easier with a top wrap, which is in line with some of the claims that people have about topwrapping, clearly though the bending part did not really hold and the experiment seemed to be carried out quite well.