Manipulating The Charge Phase in Warhammer 40k: 10th Edition
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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I really like this cuz last video about the problems of tenth and why you didn’t like it I didn’t reallt understand what the issues you had actually were. This is a very clean example and now I both understand and agree that this is just poor game design. I have played like 5 games of tenth and had a good time but I come from a very causal scene where situations like this would rarely come up. Great content as always, looking forward to seeing more!
It’s frustrating that they can’t write rules to match their clear intention. Adding a line like ‘getting as close as possible to the enemy unit taking the shortest route possible’ isn’t hard lol
These rules are written by a bunch of old crusty dudes that don't get out much and without input from actual tournament players. Also instead of having the intent written as the rule with a DEEP FAQ written by a team of engineers, most of their team seems to be artsy-fartsy types, so they lump it all together in imprecise terms. Having intent written by the artists and game designers makes the game function as they want while still being streamlined and readable, and means a stupid-in-depth FAQ can be made easily available online and to tournament organizers and players.
its' weird because AOS has a similar charge mechanic but the rules are much more clear.
I ate a gummy a while ago and can’t remember if you talked about this.
When pain boy resurrects models, he can just set them back up in unit coherency (I think). So theoretically you could set them up on the side closer to your opponent and gain a little movement?
Not really charge manipulation by seems something handy
Also useful for Necron reanimation protocols.
@@StephenLeaSheppard feels thematic for necrons. They scratch their way forward shambling back up on their feet
Yes absolutely, it’s a great tool people use all the time! Enjoy your gummy
I agree with basically all the sentiments in this video, especially as a top Kill Team competitor dealing with adjacent unintuitive systems played by intent. Regarding the 40k design team, apparently their Facebook account said they have 10 "play testers" playing 4 games a week each. Which just sounds like they consider the designers playing some games as "play testing". Who knows what's going on at their HQ. The 10e core rules (eg Devastating Wounds) feel like they were written alongside original OP Votann, while the Index points feel like they were written the week before release.
Damn that’s crazy, I mean honestly I feel like all of this comes down to corporate mismanagement. I’m sure they have some awesome game designers and play testers working for them that put in crazy hours, but maybe need external help from certain kinds of players or more staff to help proof read and look for stuff. They’re such a big company, 10 people is absurd
I love these videos, learning alot and i really enjoy your insights into the game. Keep the videos coming!
Hey man, hope to see you again at an event sometime this year. I really appreciate the effort you’re putting into making more regular content. Your stuffs really informative and I like a lot of it. I had an idea regarding the gargantuan squiggoth and wanted to know if it would work. What are your thoughts about putting a unit of Gretchen and Zogrod in there. Would that not give it a 9 inch scout move?
Lmao rules as written you might be right I have to confirm, I know people have been talking about it with trukks. Wait sorry idk your username have we played at an event before
@@billiondollarclownfarm yea I’m part of Making Saves we played at the California teams event 2 years ago
Thank you for the video. Maybe I won't use the tactics, but just you explaining it makes me understand charge moves and pile in moves a lot better already.
Cool video. In addition to this (in some interpretations) you do not have to move closest models first. Which means you can pick a model that doesn't have enough movement to base but does have enough to get within 1".
This let's you slip around with the pile in which is something they were trying to get rid of.
Isn't the simplest fix (assuming we don't want tagging) to say "charging/piling in/consolidating models cannot move within engagement range of models in units they are not charging or models in units they do not already have models within engagement range of (for consolidating and piling in)" ? Or is there a loophole in that restriction as well?
This was my thought too.
Isn’t the whole point of consolidating moves to end in engagement of new units when possible? I’d agree with the charge/pile in allowing you to get within engagement range of the units you target.
Would you ever consider doing an army showcase? you have some majestic models lol
8:17 they are with pistols. You can choose them to shoot ;)
i got so excited for this video and then remembered i am swapping to Tau for 10th lol
This is has always been the fun part of melee in 40k, alot of armies now can fall back and still shoot. I really don't think this is that big of an issue, buffing your enemy on the other hard with your detachment rules
Good shit man. Would love to see a part 2 breaking down consolidation.
If I'm not mistaken, units not in base-to-base within the charging/fighting unit are not eligible to attack unless they are in direct base-to-base contact with the target unit.
models 'within engagement range' can fight without being in base to base, but models behind them have to be in base to base contact with a model who is themselves within base to base in order to fight. So you can still fight without being in base to base, you just need to be in base to base for your second rank to fight. It's a huge change from 9th that I'm not a fan of so far, feels like a lot of non deliberate scenarios arise.
Red Path did a similar analysis video about 3nweeks ago.
Awesome vid man, nice one
I'm confused what tagging is. You move blocked your own units to get closer to the space marines, to force a fall back?
all they have to do is change "move closer" to "move as close as possible". Boom, you can't string them out then.
I think this might cause other issues lol but yeah it would help with tagging for sure
Good vid, i do like gaming the charge phase but wish for some clarification too
I'm sure they're trying with rules and its easy to criticise, but after 10 editions, you would hope eliminating the lack of rules clarity and intuitiveness would have been a top priority. as a magic player coming back to 40k in 8th, I found the rules super ambiguous at times.
Go ahead, and I’ll make your command reroll cost 2CP 😂
Honestly they just need to do it like mtg. Hire some pro players and let them playtest. Caviat is they are not allowed to participate in tournaments anymore to avoid them getting a competitive benefit from it. But they have to pay money for that. So that won't happen.
If someone trys to cheat u ind that way, just say NO!!! Dont let them go trough with it. The rule is clearly not meant that way. Its meant that u bring a much models as possible into melee.
Its typical "that guy" cheating and what pushes me and some friends out of tournament playing.
If that guy refuses, just shake his hand, wish him an nice day and leave.
You did the right statement about that! Great summary!🤘
NEW VID LFG
You’re that guy at the hobby store aren’t you
This is and has been how tournaments are played, gaming the charge phase has been an integral part of competitive play for a long time. Tournament players also tend to practice against each other instead of bullying casuals at local game stores who just want to have fun
Tourney players should get together and come up with community rules. Fireside podcast is close to doing this. Contracting the AoW guys would be perfect to weigh in *during* the writing process, not just after. Great thoughts man!
This is why I don't play competitive anything, people are super unsportsman like and toxic now a days. With knowledge at the touch of our fingers, you'd think people would know a lot more, but we're even dumber than ever....The other thing I don't understand is why companies don't outsource things to creators, they're fans for a reason, and would be totally down to do stuff for free...cause they love the game, and money isn't everything for those types of people that love what they do, even if they want something it'd most likely be a new box set everyone once in a while or a book they help write the rules for...people are pretty easy to please, especially fans...
Just have to point out that in your example it isn't a legal move because the model that blocked base contact at the top isn't in coherency- since there are more than 7 models it has to be within 2" of *two* models. Your point still stands of course, but you would need to send another guy charging off to the left for coherency.
You’re right, i mention this at some point in the video too and clarify it’s still possible to do if he was within 2”, I was just rushing and focused on my camera but this is correct
Example is flawed. 5:54 Top most Ork is not in cohesion. I am not convinced that he can be moved down enough to be in cohesion and not open up a place where another ork fits in BtB. Ork base is 32 mm, the gap is ~ 30mm. That's around 60mm and means you can't set him up in BtB and in Cohesion. Which in turn limits your ability to stretch squad out to tag something else. Same goes for orks trying to tag marine squad. How would they do that and remain in cohesion? They have to stop at least >1 inch away during charge. during pile in they have to get in BtB if they can, but that will ruin cohesion, so their priority is to stay in cohesion. Then they can't tag marines.
Maybe that's true, but that doesn't mean that what he's describing is impossible, right? He mentions that the example isn't perfect, it's just to illustrate the potential case.
I think this highlights the grey area even further, because arguing whether there are 32mm available is another tedious additional step too.
@@Rob-qe3cg I understand that, but my point here - BtB demand was introduced specifically to limit your ability to stretch out. This flawed example shows that charge shenanigans are severely limited now and way, way more harder to pull off. To the point where it's hard to even provide a good example.
I stopped 3 minutes in. I don’t blame GW anymore at this point I blame players. I just won’t play someone who manipulates rules like this. Bye gurl bye lol
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