Problem With Black Panther Being White
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
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Im poking the bear this week. Also check out our new channel's video! ruclips.net/video/ofz0MqLgt8g/видео.html Is Modern Gaming Bad?
Okay
Next time pick a different community to use as an example because you know the type of people that are in the comments now
You keep saying Chilean like that's a race of people.
Being from Chile is not a race. I've been there. You almost might think you're in Europe. When you're there, I would say the majority of the people there are white. Have you ever been there? They're just people from Europe. I would say chili is probably 60 to 65%. European or mestiza like they call it whether mostly European or maybe with a little bit of Indian.I refused to call these people native Americans because there's no place here called America.Before us europeans came here it was just a bunch of indians running around smoking peyote and eating each other
@@saiyandna2368yeah, the type of people are normal people who are sick of this one-way bullshit.
Sick of seeing lefties promote Race-Swapping all of fiction to black/gay/female but then complaining when it's to a white person.
So basically, what I got from your explanation is that black characters are mostly focused on social issues. Is that a good thing though? like white guys get to have fun where black guys suffer from racism? I mean yea in reality it happens but does that mean every comic book characters also have to have that?
Pedro Pascal is the most white non white actor ever
You lames are pathetic
You do realize Hispanic people have different skin tone, I’m Mexican but pale as fuck
I didn't know he was non-white until watching this video, because he still has a lot of Mediterranean facial features that make me think "this guy is Castilian Spanish, not Latin American."
@@jagnestormskull3178 that's like a good chunk of latin americans.
Schrödinger’s white man.
Considering how people reacted to that Sabra thing, I can't imagine how much hate Marvel would get if Black Panther were played by a white guy.
now do a video for a male Wonder Woman
Lmao!
I’m pretty sure there’s one on Earth-11 technically ☝️🤓
based on how "she" looks in the video games "she" already is.
Wonder Man 😏
Well, there is Hunter Prince who's the son of Wonder Woman I think.
This is a slippery slope and ill invoke it myself. There have also been race swapping in HISTORICAL drama based off of REAL people. Race swapping should not be utilized in historical drama. Such as cleopatra and anne boleyn
As ridiculous as the Cleopatra thing was, I could imagine ignorant people buying that. Anne Boleyn though, that's insane (but so are the political ideologues who push this crap...)
Shouldn’t be utilized at all, it’s ridiculous and unnecessary in 2024
@@theverminator4219 exactly
Perfectly said@@theverminator4219
Honestly, doesn't even matter there. Hamilton, for all its cheesiness, did just fine making EVERY one of these white founding fathers Black. If the actor is bringing the energy, let em do it. Now, as part of this, the movie should NOT alter the FACTS of the story. If a Bernie Sanders biopic got made and used a Black actor, I don't want him talking about his Black experiences when he's in the Civil Rights Movement. The story should still be about Bernie's life as a Jewish activist from Vermont. Other characters should still be referring to him as white and Jewish. But I think we should just let actors play roles.
And here's one of the big things about why: Hollywood makes a LOT of historical dramas about white people. LOVE that shit. Whether it's just going back to Elvis or reaching all the way back to Rome, there is a very clear and present bias towards WHOSE stories are getting told. So until we actually a fundamental shift in that kind of thing, I say fuck it, we ball.
To me Pedro just doesn’t look like Reed. I’m not talking race or skin tone. What I’m saying is he doesn’t look like Reed. Reed is a tall skinny with a long slim face. If I described Reed without naming race or color. You won’t think Pedro just like you also wouldn’t think John krasinski. I’m not trying to make fun of it be mean but Pedro doesn’t look like he’d be a genius more of a smart brawler like in mando or game of thrones.
This. This is my argument too. Not even saying Pedro won't do well. He just looks completely miscasted.
I believe that attributing genius to long-nerd-stereotype is yet another kind of lookism.
Genius is present irrespective of appearance.
@kingol4801 you're missing the point, he's talking about the comic portrayal of Reed. Not some superficial societal take on what a genius is supposed to look like.
You could say the same thing about Chris Pratt. Gunn's version of Star Lord is basically a new character personality and the Chris Pratt look has bled into the comics. That's not even going into how pre-2014 Chris Pratt looked even less like Peter Quill than he already did.
agreed.the only person who looks like reeds is ian grufoldo. i just cant see any other reeds
Netflix: hold my beer
I don't know the context for this comment and at this rate I'm afraid to ask...
@@sk8rmouse404They race a genderbent a viking that actually existed for the Vikings sequel series.
@@keithwilliams1795 they also race swapped Cleopatra and cathrine the great in one of there docuseries show
@keithwilliams1795 Hollywood white washed characters made for people of color since motion pictures were invented such as moors gengish khan bible characters egyptian characters ethiopian characters video game tv book and comic book characters all the time
@@racekingableSounds like a small deal considering the overarching history of this.
It’s nice to see people understand both sides of the argument but also agree why it just wouldn’t work
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, white Africans already exist.
Thanks for the video Benny
White Wolf
@@ReinaHamazaki no that’s the name of the adopted child of the king of Wakanda instead of making him black panther they him the name white wolf because if it’s not obvious he was white
@@Yvng_Zy White Tiger(Kasper Cole) is another "White" Black Panther.
@@Yvng_Zy White Tiger(Kasper Cole) is another "White" Black Panther.
I am strongly against Race swapping as a general rule and think that actors should look something like the character they are playing, things like make up or hair dye being used are no problem. Someone like Pedro Pascal fits into a grey area where he looks White enough that there isn't much to object to.
I agree story not race
And fat people should be cast by fat people , and LGBT people should be played by LGBT people right ?
He does not look white enough to play reed in my eyes. And this coming from a very pro Hispanic, very dark Latino man. Why are we acting like reed hasn’t given off white workaholic dad vibes for decades
Yeah I’m tired of Miles Morales
@@clevernamerighthere9240 What I'm curious about
He IS white. His skin is white. How does he not
"He's not white enough" what does that even mean? Do people stop being white when they see the sun?
love the channel, always a good time when I get that notification man
Just a reminder to everyone out there, Al Pacino (Italian) played Tony Montana (Cuban). And gave us one of the best characters ever. Its not about race swapping, it's about bad writing
Cuban is a nationality. There are Italian Cubans.
Great character. Cheesy performance. Especially when you compare him to real Latino Cuban people and their accents.
Has anybody read Captain America Symbol of Truth? There was a good rivalry between Sam and White Wolf to which Hunter relates to sam in knowing that he fought, killed and bleed for the country that he loves with all his heart. But no matter what he did, we all knew there was 1 reason and 1 reason only as to why hunter would never be black panther
Sam related to it being a Black man fighting, killing and bleeding for his country but still not being accepted by some people for the same reason. I really liked that book as a Sam fan. I mean, he didn't really "relate" to it but White Wolf tried to draw the correlation.
The reason you said for black characters should be swapped happened for cleopatra people love to race swapping so much it went to real life history at the end of the day be it white or black our race is important and shouldn’t be messed with for brownie points or praise be it upfront or more hidden it’s a cheap and disrespectful attempt at pandering
"People" don't love race swapping. A tiny, overly vocal minority of people with political views bordering on legitimate delusion are the ones who "love" when existing, often beloved characters get race-swapped (as long as the character was originally white, of course)
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 "(as long as the character was originally white, of course)", it's sad we live in a world were I'm not entirely sure if that is satire or not.
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 not just race swap gender swap and all the in-betweens. Its like make your own characters dont change these ones.
What ate you saying?
But do people really care about new characters@@faith4657
I fully agree you can act out of a role. HOWEVER, I think when it’s a movie based on a true story or a movie based on a person in history. In that case I think you shouldn’t be race changing. But that’s just my opinion
This is the most nuanced yet hilarious description of the topic that I've seen. I appreciate this🙏🏾💯
I’m also way more into making more characters than changing old ones. If you change a character then that might not last past that version. But if you make a new character, then they’re out there. Then they have been added to the box of things writers and whatever can use later in their new version. If you know what you want then just make it. You want a black Green lantern, bam, John Steward. You want black Spiderman, bam, Miles Morales.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
man I have been trying to find a way to verbalize this point for a while. Preciate this video, really helped put thoughts into words.
thank you for this video!
The problem with race swapping any character is its creatively lazy with VERY few exceptions
Pedro is one of those exceptions
It’s creatively lazy to make adaptations but people still want them
@@jafufudean8389race isn't the problem with the casting. The problem for me is i just don't think pedro will play a good reed richards. He doesn't look like him either.
@cerebralassassin2185 alright then let's be nerds who do you think he would be good as cause honestly I think he would be good as one of the x men maybe night crawler
@kanggeorge4781 I agree it is very lazy. I'm not saying there isn't a demand I'm just acknowledging it's lazy
The thing with casting Pedro pascal as Reed Richard’s is while Pedro Pascal is ethnically Chilean, racially, he is effectively white. That’s why they have that stupid label under race as Latino (non-white)
Exactly because they’re non-white so your logic makes absolutely no fucking sense
It never occurred to me that he wasn't white he looks like Russell Crowe in gladiator
I mean most Latinos are at least some percent white. Because ya know the Spanish colonized America, and Spain is a white country.
He's also played a ton of white characters before so its nothing new for Pedro.
It's almost like race is a made up concept and isn't reflecive of reality
Thank you guys for taking the time to break down the comic book storyline now if only these directors and producers as far as reaching out to you guys keep up the good work❤❤❤❤
Thank you for this video.
Oh, and BTW...I LOVE your hair!!!
Welcome back!
They don’t have to look EXACTLY like the character. But looking close is important. That’s why we don’t have a blue or pink HULK. HULK’s green.
And spiderman is white
So what?
@@caiobispodossantossantana Not every Spider-Man
The Hulk is a bad example. Because he's all special effects, it doesn't really matter what Bruce Banner looks like (we've had two completely different looking actors play him in the MCU for pete's sake).
A better example would be Thor (the original one who is Odin's son) who's based on an actual Norse god, so him looking at least somewhat Nordic is important
@@timotheninjaso can an alternate version of BP be white then?
@@krichard_ Yes
You are back baby 👶 love this
Colonizer Panther? 🤢
That would be hilarious
😂😂😂😂
This is funny asf lmfao!
😂😂
Africans are colonizers too. They just sucked at it
I think its a difference of a character being created for a culture vs a regular character that is just based on a personality, ability or theme.
If a character has their country and culture baked into there personality then I think its a no go.
Thanks for the comic news Benny and friends. I love these new segments
There are TWO IMPORTANT THINGS to consider in casting the actors appearance and skill. You can't always have picture perfect casting it's very rare. The actor doesn't always have to look exactly like the character just closely them. And they have to be really good at acting and Capture the essence of the character. Grant Gustin looks nothing like Barry Allen in the comics but he perfectly captures the essence of the character, the same with Michael Keaton as Batman. Casting can't always be picture perfectly accurate not every actor who plays a gay character is gay.
Those people bitching about Pedro will be mind blown to find out Hispanics/latinos can be white af too. My mom for example literally looks like she could be Martha Stewart's cousin yet shes Mexican.
SomeHispanics are technically white since Hispanic is an ethnicity, guess depends on their shade idk
Cómo Colombiano me enojo las teorías de que uno de los personajes de encanto era adoptada por ser blanca
Same with my sister . Myself and the rest of my siblings are all brown but my youngest sister is looks white as shit cuz my mom is light skinned and our dad is brown . We just all happened to get my dads skin color while my sister got my moms lol
I knew a guy with last name White. Turned out he was an albino Hispanic.
It is a race that's built off the mixing of races.
It's to be expected
If the character's race matters to the character you probably don't want to change that and if you do you should pull a miles Morales instead of making Peter black. make the character a role instead of just a person like Captain America.
and then people complains why there isn't a lot of black original characters
It's a very double edged sword with it's pros and cons on both sides. Do wish OG characters would spike up and hit with most people from the get go but unfortunately it's a high risk. I still think they should try and take the risks tho@@ggadams639
@@ggadams639 Spawn, Blade, Luke Cage, John stewart,..shall i continue?
@@Ex4lted_ John Stewart isn't original, he's black Green Lantern just like War Machine is black Iron Man. Doesn't mean they are bad characters as I prefer John Stewart and War Machine over Hal and Iron Man but they still ain't original.
@@stephenschneekloth1535 My point exactly they are better characters overall lol
3:36
Why wouldn't this work, he's literally me?
Thank you Benny
Thank you for this 🫶🏾
The Pink Panther?
He really is a groovy cat 🐈 😻
If their skin color is important for every black character, then maybe there’s a problem. Also, if they can’t change Black panther, then who
Why do any characters have to be changed to be white? There's already thousands of more white characters than any other group in comics.
@@BaithNa why does anyone have to be changed at all
You have accidentally hit on the real problem: that nearly every black character is defined by their race in some way. This is a larger symptom of how black characters are written vs white ones
@@jonasholm-mw5bn maybe the person behind the choice has an interesting angle with it or maybe they are character who isn't important enough for it to be an issue id argue it's an execution thing but nonwhite race are better to use because.
A: they can visually stand out in a mostly white cast Valkyrie and Heimdall in Thor those are good characters already but most of the non royality Thor characters don't stand out alot.
B: making a character a different race can sometimes if you choose to acknowledge it enhance elements that were already there due to world history which could be done with white character but mostly via nationality related events.
@@foxhound9780 if that is so, then why didn’t we see any white people among the good guys in Wakanda. They would stand out a lot there. But of course they would stand out because it’s a country that’s supposedly closed off from everyone. Not like the Asgiardians who are aliens who are said to have inspired the Norse gods
💯Tell 'em again ben!! 👏🏿 Replay at 0.75x, save & rewatch when needed in the future.
You changed my pov. Thank you
W
I think for the most part I personally think you shouldn’t race swap, gender swap, or anything similar since fundamentally it changes the story of the character. As much as it shouldn’t it ultimately does with the way things are right now. Until this doesn’t have to be a thing we shouldn’t do anything like that
Hard disagree. If jean grey where to be played by a latino in the live action MCU X-Men literally nothing about her power set, her origin, her and Scott literally nothing changes. Nothing about Jean Grey's storyline is dependant on her not having dark skin.
However, I will say it does end up LOOKING like a completely different character from comics to screen. And for some fans that can end up becoming a a while new character. THAT'S a better argument and I think a fair one.
And then the other issue is, if you 100% cast comics accurate, you end up with essentially all white casts, which isn't a bad thing at all as that's true to the source material. It just means you're creating a fantasy world where the only time non-whites exist is essentially as NPCs in the background of white people's super lives. Which again is fine, but a little weird.
@@Paul94096 I’m saying there is in the comics I’m saying it would gain that aspect of their character if it to be changed. I don’t have a problem with it happening unless it’s fundamentally changed but unfortunately with the world we live in it won’t work that way.
The whole argument that people are having about Black Panther being white that lead this video being created shows it becomes a part of the character if it gets changed even if it shouldn’t be the case
@@Paul94096 the solution for that then would be make it different versions of the character. Like for example if they want a black Superman then have it be with Val Zod from Earth 2 instead of Clark Kent, or just make up a new version of Superman
Some characters have nothing about them that there race or gender being swapped would impact, I feel then it really does not matter
The same reason why Cleopatra can't be black
I actually agree with this, I have no idea who green lit that Netflix thing, but their an idiot lol. A whole country is mad at them
@@comicstorianindeed wether the person is real or fictional their race matters to that group of people
@@comicstorianI think that was Jada Pinkett's idea. It's her show.
as a mixed (black and white) young man, you did this video perfect Benny
Damn that hot sauce sounds bomb might buy
I love how much effort you put into this video only to completely miss the point, great surface-level discussion like always.
Exactly. Lots of hypocrisy and missing the point. Oh we can’t turn black characters because that matters but we can turn white characters into another race because it doesn’t matter makes no sense. You can have a white black panther and it can make sense of him having black parents and leading a black country, there’s lots of ways you can do that. He also ignores how by making a white character black actually does cause the exact same problems for who those characters are. I think it also shows how he views certain races which is problematic.
@@fishin4bass2002 Fan4stic is a good example where they race swapped Johnny Storm and the entire family except for Susan so they had to make her adopted, completely changes the dynamic of the characters. Race swapping one character can lead to even more changes down the line and those changes could be pretty big just because they couldn't leave it alone.
@@stephenschneekloth1535 yeah if they are going to copy an original story then why do they think they need to change it ?
@fishin4bass2002 you completely missed the whole point of the video. The issues with your comment is "white savior complex" among other issues like colonialism. You must not have paid attention to the little bit of history he mentioned as well.
It would not be the same. People of color especially Black people are going to see that trailer and say, "yet another thing the white man has taken from us." If you haven't noticed, in entertainment industry, up until recently, had a huge lack of representation. True representation, not the one's playing stereotypes.
@@noneyabuizness no you don’t get the point. You have all these historical shows and movies based off white characters like queen Ann Boleyne and other white historical figures or white characters and we are just mocking it because it’s absurd. Also you need to read a history book if you think all those things are only relevant to black people in Africa.
I noticed that when she came out of the neck she had both hands. But in the hospital, she has one. What happened?
Magical Hand Regrowing Magic
Thank you, Benny.
Now that you mention it... I didn't even put the two Cassandra Kain characters together until you pointed it out... I just thought it was some kid they made up for the movie... Heart Broken... Mind blown...
Sorry, but we are disagree on this topic. For example, Blade's race is not important to the character, but I would still hate it if in the next movie some blonde, blue-eyed, pale-ass white dude would play the character.
And the whole race-swapping thing just feels wrong and weird. Like, someone kills your favorite uncle, takes their face and while wearing it tries to convince you that nothing is changed and they are your beloved uncle.
Blade was made out of the Blacksploitation era of comics in the 70's. Even then he was raceswapped in Spiderman the Animated Series.
Blade being black is important to his character because his creation was inspired by blacksplotstion films and his foundational stories used him being a Demi-Vampire as a comparison/parallel to being bi-racial but predominantly perceived as a marginalised race.
The vast majority of POC characters in comics either have their race be an important aspect of their story, or are so few and far between to the point that race swapping them would be overtly callous. I'll give a few examples of characters that could be race swapped yet maintain their characterization fully, and even a few white ones that couldn't be race swapped without effecting their characterization.
Reed Richards could be any race and still be Reed Richards. Cyclops could be any race and still be Cyclops. Bruce Banner could be any race and still be Bruce Banner.
Danny Rand (Iron Fist) would be fundamentally different if he weren't white. Tony Stark would be fundamentally different if he weren't white. Victor Von Doom, Charles Xavier, and Magneto would be fundamentally different if they weren't Romani, white, and ethnically Jewish respectively.
@@roypitts4771I remember blade being black in the Spider-Man animated series
@@aceofsharks9837while I agree with you, I think magneto doesn't work here given the fact he wasn't jewish till the end of the 90's or something (I think the X-Men first movie was what added this trait to the character) so this aspect of the character wasn't fundamental at all at first while it's a whole part of him now, otherwise I totally agree with what you said.
@@CaptainDevelon I'd argue it's become so entwined with his character that it's essentially fundamental now. For example, Wolverine's original mutant ability was just his regeneration & pseudo-immortality. But because of confusion/misunderstandings in his first appearance and so on, it was later changed to include the claws.
I much prefer keeping characters true to their original concept. But if they want to swap only a certain race its kinda meh. If they can do it for one they can do it for all.
Not how it works
Ohh God here come the victimized white folk 😂😂
@@hotmcfly9247 it works however they want it to. But they are cowards and advocates.
@@hotmcfly9247Why? How about an Asian Luke Cage? Latino Cyborg? White Blade? Indian Black Falcon? Pacific Islander Static Shock? Non binary gray blob as Storm? 🎉
@@victorisler6672my guy are u dumb all the characters you mentioned race matter to them and have social issues with those characters while white characters don’t 😭😭
Someone has finally said it also with the hill storyline why not have duke in place of jason or have him tag along and have a duke and jason story
Great point of view! Totally Agree!
Thats not the issuie, It is the race swopping only goes one way!
Because there's infinitely more white characters in comics due to the comics code.
Do some research, kid.
@@BaithNa stop race swapping and make new non-white characters.
use your brain, kid.
No, the issue is the race swapping, period. It shouldnt be "oh well if they get to, I get to!" No, it should be neither
@@BaithNathe idea of oh well they have plenty some they won’t mind if we take some is a terrible argument
@@BaithNaso?
Bro, I fucking LOVE you. Omg! 😂😂😂 Thank you. I've been saying this.
Man , write a book about everything and I’d buy it lol
I like these vids a lot Benny, they keep getting better and better! And the full story channel is already in my top 3. Loving the content big guy 👍🏽
The official reason why they changed Namor in the MCU, is his shared history with Aquaman with them both being the King of Atlantis in their universes. It would be a problem in the MCU.
This. You can make the case the same for Kamala’s powers due to being very close to Reed’s.
IMO that was a lame excuse to change Kamala's powerset. Almost part of the same reason they changed Echo's powerset on her Disney Plus show. They are treating the audience like they couldn't handle the fact that several characters can have similar powers. You're basically telling your audience you are slow imo. Sooooo many characters have similar powersets from the source materials they are pulling the stories they tell in live action. Stop acting like your audience would have a melt down seeing two people who can stretch or can duplicate fighting styles just by observing someone for a few mins or seconds. So by this logic when the X-Men finally debut in the MCU you will change or never show Sunfire cause he is too similar to the Human Torch power wise? Banshee, Syrin, Black Bolt and Songbird together are no no's? smh.
But Namor came first.
@thebloodedge284 Oh I know, DC and Marvel know that. But it was so easy mistaking the two for each other at times, and I'm sure for the casual audiences who don't know the lore would mistake the two as well. It was a smart move on their part this sole instance
Haven’t watched but ima assume because black panther being black fits the character especially with the culture of a country in Africa but reed Richards on the other hand him being white plays no part in his comic character
Exactly
Meh. Admit the truth, blacks will just whine when they swap thier own charceter but not when another race gets swapped for them.
Makes sense but if that’s the case , how do you feel about them making Blade white? Even if it’s just in the comics . His race plays no part in the comics or movies . I’m genuinely asking btw I’m not trying to sound like a smart ass or anything
@@onethousandlostsouls Except we've seen how Blade was initially inspired by Blaxploitation films etc. Blackness is tied into Blade's origin too, not as blatantly as Black Panther BUT its there
not everyone from Africa is Black
Touchy subject but navigated it well. Agree with almost everything. The fact people don’t get it is crazy but at the same time makes sense. Good video.
good shit B 👏🏽
YEARS ago I was very angry that Michael Clark Duncan was cast as Kingpin. I thought it was bad that they race swapped him, felt wrong. Then I watched Daredevil and realized I was stupid and it didn't matter. I've let everything go on the matter and just don't care anymore.
Make something great, it's fine.
Duncan was badass as Kingpin
The problem is simple.
1. T'challa's characterization and background are defined by his African heritage and being heir to an isolationist African kingdom.
2. White Black Panther already exists, he's called the White Wolf and T'Challa recognizes him as his brother.
3. The heart shaped herb that gives the Black Panther his powers is poisonous to anyone outside of the royal family.
People that don't understand these two points are either ignorant about these characters or bigoted and hate seeing diversity in their media.
Except that a white T'Challa would still have the same background and upbringing in Wakanda. Truth is its just a "White bad" argument. You can make any character any ethnicity and work into their background so long as the experiences they have are roughly the same. Its why Magneto needs to be from WW2 they built so much of his character around that (yes it was added later but still) that trying to do a modern magneto without the holocaust just doesn't work.
@@TheLastSane1 its like you missed everything said and just came to the conclusion that white people are bad yourself homie.
@@TheLastSane1 nonsense. pure nonsense. Establishing a white kingdom in Africa isn't plausible. Furthermore, changing a black character to a white character and stating experiences would be identical is wild. They simply wouldn't be. The truth is, that some are unhappy that they have to share the stage, and some are happy to. The ones that are, make up silly comparisons to chastise the dynamic when the switch is the "white to black" side of the argument, while vehemently defending things when the switch goes in the opposite direction. No one complained about Bane, half of the roles Angelina Jolie has played, Scarlett Johannson, Ralph Fiennes playing Michael Jackson, Jake Gyllenhaal as Dastan, Katniss Everdeen, the entire cast of Gods of Egypt, Ben Affleck in Argo, Moses literally any time a movie is made with him in it, Justin Chatwin as Goku, Johnny Depp as Tonto... on and on. Don't complain about one without complaining about the others over 400 plus years of cinema. Every single time the defense is, "Give the role to the best actor".
@@seeeyegee3061 Tons of people complained about those changes. Why are you such a liar? Is it because of the mental illness?
@@seeeyegee3061"Establishing a White kingdom isn't plausible"
Hate to do this to you but Cleopatra and the Ptolemaic Dynasty were ethnically white Greeks.
Well said!
Exactly, my friends and I have said this years ago. Black Panther’s race, location, etc are central to the story.
i feel like theres just certain characters you cant race swap even if they dont have specific reasons they are that race. like Peter parker should be white. spiderman can be black, Hispanic, white, asian, whatever, but Peter parker should be white
I wouldn't be too strict with that but a afro American Peter parker would be weird as Miles Morales exists and could be used instead. I might be wrong but while certainly the norm Peter isn't really connected to a certain ethnicity. Jimmy Olsen's most iconic version is also Caucasian with red hair but you do see him as afro American. :)
Black Panther on the other hand.....
Personally I'd actually make it the other way around
I'm perfectly fine with a Black Peter Parker in fact I'd say it might add to his character
Constantly put down upon, hated by the police and media, constantly needs to make ends meet, etc
Superman on the other hand I think needs to be white.
Mainly because the point of Superman is that he comes from a place or privilege
He's a guy given almighty gifts and he uses them to help people
Not because of any real reason then it's the right thing to do
Make him a racial minority and have him grow up with prejudice and that's a different story
A potentially interesting story.
But a _different_ story.
**Edit:** It's 1am and I read your comment wrong and I apologise
I'm still going to leave it there as it's a long comment and I took time writing it but sorry for the ramble
The White Black Panther meme comes from seeing silly stuff like Black Vikings, Black Anne Boleyn, and diverse medieval European civilizations etc etc. Why is the racial history of a character important only for non Whites not for Whites?
Yeah, weird how that works!
Because in our society White is viewed as racially neutral. Where as every other race are an addition to the person characters. The people who complain about a cast being “too diverse”, are treating a straight white male as the default character traits
Was gonna comment this exact same thing. Wish he brought this up cause this is kinda the cause of this meme of placing ryan gosling as black panther and mlk and stuff.
Works of fiction, especially in fictional settings can afford to add different groups of people. It's not as if historically white people are being swapped. And people act as though black people didn't exist in other countries historically. And no the memes come from a place of ignorance and hate. It's not justified.
That is not the same. One is the leader of a country, and the other is just a black viking. There is a white wakandan. T'challas brother
You're goated
What is your opinion on what happen to the character taskmaster in mcu
we don´t talk about that one .................................................................
as long as Thunderbolt won´t fix it
Isn't that just white wolf
White wolf is white wolf …. Aka winter soldier
Black panther is black panther
@@buffalosoldier5128no, White Wolf is only the Winter Soldier in the MCU and he was never referred to as the White Wolf besides two small scenes.
@@buffalosoldier5128 there's a character called White Wolf. Who's not a part of the MCU
@buffalosoldier5128 white wolf in the actual comics is a white man that was adopted by the royal family he is the head of the War dogs.
You should do a problem with MCU namor. I haven’t done my research but what is the big difference between comic and movie version
Hey you should do a video on slapstick from marvel he's underrated
You DON’T need to Gender Swap! ALL OF YOUR “REPRESENTATION” IS RIGHT THERE! All you need to do is get, Jean Grey, Emma Frost, (DARKSKIN) Storm, Cap Marvel, Black Widow etc etc RIGHT and accurate and there goes your Female representation.
Hurry up and make this Blade movie, RECAST T’CHALLA, Give us a Blue Marvel Movie, A Storm movie, and there goes your Black Representation.
No checking of boxes should ever be needed. Just do these characters right.
That would require actual work. Im at the point of can AI really make it worse than it already is 😂
How does this then apply to the spider-verse, when they went out of their way to give over representation to every group and pass it off as, "well, it's a different universe." Is gender swapping OK if it's a different universe, and isn't the MCU a different universe? If gender swapping isn't OK if it's a different universe, then how do you feel about all the spider-women in the spider-verse (not the different spider-women in the 616 universe)
@@cryingalone7572 And sadly you’re right. ACTING like you’re doing the right thing instead of ACTUALLY doing the right thing is too much for these people.
And Skynet…I mean AI, is definitely gonna make things worse. lol I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future….We start fighting for Robot/AI Rights. Lmao
@@bobdole1105 That’s the thing…It doesn’t apply to the Spider-Verse. We don’t have Black Peter Parker…We have Miles Morals, We don’t have Latino Peter Parker it’s Miguel O’ Hara. We don’t have White female Peter Parker we got Jessica’s Drew(Spider Woman) and or Gwen Stacy.
BUT See how people drew the line with the Pregnant Black Spider Woman? It’s not because she Black, A Woman, Or Pregnant…. It’s because her name is Jessica Drew, and you’re trying to convince us she’s the same person as the one in the comics.
Especially when again you didn’t need to race swap Jessica Drew when, *Ashley Barton* is right there (Look her up, watch some YT videos on her and then ask…Why didn’t they put her in the Spider Verse? And you’ll get exactly what we’ve all been saying)
@@Nytellem But why do we have Miles Morals? Years ago, at the first reboot of the Spider-Man movies people were talking about who should play him and some people said it should be Donald Glover. This picked up a lot of steam, and then half the internet went crazy with this same race swapping stuff. A few years later they made Miles in part because of that call for a black Spider-Man. This is why Donald Glover voiced Miles in his first animation appearance, and player the Prowler in Tom Holland Spider-Man, and say "I got a nephew in the neighborhood."
Why do we have Miguel O’ Hara? I'm not going to go into a long history, but 2099 failed but a few characters had a fan base. Spider-Man 2099 having the largest by far, partly because he looked cool. But in the early comics while he is half Hispanic it was never a major par of his character, except sometime he'd use Spanish. Leaning into him being half Hispanic is more a recent development.
Why do we have Gwen Stacy? You say we don't need a White female Peter Parker, well that was her whole point when she was introduced. She had some fan because she looked cool, but it wasn't until Cosplayers started dressing up as her and her being a fixture at every Con that she started to get more stories.
All these characters aren't reasons why it doesn't apply to the spider-verse, they are reasons why it does when you incorporate their history into account.
benny... you would not last 1 argument in a debate...
Except all his points are actually valid. Sorry if you are just to stupid to realize it.
@@jaydavis9717 I think that there is a different between having valid points and being able to argue them effectively.
@@AnomalyINC this is also not a debate video. It's an explanation of his stance on a topic. Not everything is a "debate me bro" moment.
@@nojusticenetwork9309 I did not mean to imply that. I just mean that even if you are right, you can formulate things poorly.
what's the skiboard beside UI goku is from
😂 Damn, Tropic Thunder might be the movie for tonight.
Steve Rodgers took up the mantle as Black Panther before so IDGAF as much as I should, especially if this white Black Panther was born in Wakanda because that's the same thing as the white woman who was named Ms. South Africa or some shit in Africa.
Honestly same i think people are overthinking it
1. Wakanda isn't allowing anyone from the outside to be born in Wakanda and being born there doesn't make you a citizen or give you claim to the throne.
2. The heart shaped herb is poisonous to anyone outside of the royal family so an outsider could literally never be Black Panther.
That's a real slippery slope there. There are white people living for generations and more than a century in the South African area. The consens of them being not " real " Africans could easily be turned around to afro Americans in the US or everywhere out of Africa
Ain’t no whities born in Wakanda 😂. All them white people in Africa colonized there and took that land so that’s a terrible take my boy
steve never took the mantle of panther dude dont spread misinformation. for one this was not even main continuity. second, he put on the suit so tchalla could sneak back and go see his family, he never went through the trials and everything to become panther and wouldnt havent been acknowledged as a black panther by anyone in wakanda.
I wont use black panther, but are we okay with a white Blade, white Luke Cage, white john stewart green lantern
White Blade does make sense since being a vampire hunter has nothing to do with your race and also it's a hero name, also considering Blade's teacher was a white guy. A white Jon Stewart is kinda stupid considering Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner exist.
John Stewart yes. However he was created for the sole purpose of being a black gl. The other guys' black identity play too huge a role in their character behavior.
No??
@ThompsonFlash9999 I fully get what you're trying to say, but it seems ignorant to say because a character is created white that his race doesn't matter, because in general based on this argument all white characters in DC, marvel and so one can be race swapped but anyone of any other creed cant
@@SpikeTheWolf why not
How do I find that other channel 🤔
"I ain't finna move"
Feel like race swapping Black Panther wouldn't work and be recieved well considering Black Panther is a Wakandan in an Africa nation along with the Black Panther always being Wakandan. Hence why it wouldn't work due to that. Now if there's a street level hero named Black Panther wirh 0 relations to the Wakandan Black Panther who turns out is just some dude named I don't know Dave then that Black Panther race swap should be ok. Sure with Reed he's always been a white male but nothing really screams HE MUST ALWAYS BE WHITE. Meanwhile with Black Panther he must be black considering the history of the Black Panther tittle and how Black Panther comes from Wakanda. Now voicing Black Panther that shouldn't be a problem
You cooking 🍳
They made Santa black. He is literally a Scandinavian legend. Bet no problem with that right?
I will make one small, VERY SMALL argument for a white black panther. There are white Africans. Elon Musk is a perfect example. That said, I don't care about a race swap so long as the character works in a canonical sense, but I would be firmly against a white version of the Black Panther.
@KevinGarethy Santa has evolved beyond his origins at this point don't be disingenuous. 90% of people don't even know about his origins
@@KevinGarethy Santa Claus is a fictional character and literally no one except for you cares about where he originated. Nothing about any depiction of Santa in the last 300 years has anything to do with Scandinavia. You really thought you cooked, huh?
I think that's why people are turning away from black characters because when it's a black person it's about society but when it's a white person it's about the person. At what point can a black person just be a person and not a stand in on what's going on with their community? I hate America Chavez with a passion because I'm Latin and I see her as a shitty stereotype. I don't want every single Latin character going through our social problems or representing me, I just want a story about someone who goes through the heroes journey and come out better or worst, no matter what color or gender or sex life they have
That is a very valid criticism. There is too much attribution going on.
I hear what u are saying. For me though sometimes having a character going through what I go through as an african american in the US can get me into the story more. If a story about Brother Voodoo drops and they are on point with some of the references to Haitians with my family being from Haiti it can hit more for me. But again its some stories. Not all stories need to be about the struggle. Especially if its forced. Blah. Its got to flow. Those are the best stories imo.
I feel like the Wrecking Crew in SheHulk really encapsulates the discussion here
If you know the original line up you’ll know what I mean with the group in the show
Black Panther is literally based around being black. It's a major part of his character. It's like making Captain Britain, Australian.
The white Black Panther fan art I saw was pretty fire ngl
12:32 I think I've read more Black Panther comics where the problems are protecting his people, maintaining traditions, problems of technological or political magnitude. I haven't seen racism so much.
whoah whoah whoah, let me pump the brakes.. you're telling me i can catch up on all the lore videos i want (sleepless nights ftw) while making major subtractions from the world population of chicken nuggets, with a semi-official sauce and jalapeno is just the FIRST flavour? bruh, i'm so on board for that!!! also good video, i like your points and how you made them. have a like, and a good day :) thanks for the content
Robert Downey Jr. as Kirk Lazarus as Lincoln Osiris was pretty good 🤣 and not many people noticed
How about we cut the BS and say no to all race swapping and making original characters which the people prefer and want because at the end of the day race swapping is disrespectful to the creators fans and character history and it’s lazy to do so I’m Asian I don’t want a hand me down white character swap I want great stories and something new with 1000% honest hard work something that shows me dedication
Nah, race swapping is fine as long as it doesn't conflict with the character's personality or background.
@@BaithNa but this is ignored all the time for white characters, so why should it not be ignored for black characters then?
heimdall is literally a norse god, some of the whitest people on the planet and the whitest norse gods, yet... idris elba.
@@BaithNathe characters background changes as the dynamics/culture change too and the history of that character at the end of the day OG characters being created reign supreme because knock offs feel so dull and lackluster one is a work of art being made with care the other was piggybacking on someone else work because of a lack of ideas
@@RanRayu Heimdall Is From Norse Mythology. Meaning There's A 50/50 Chance of That Existing. Same Goes For Vampires, Werewolves, and Merfolk
@@Channel-23s And For U. U Keep Bringing Up "make original characters" Argument But The Real Question Is... Would U Show Up Supporting These "Original" Characters. We Get "Original" Characters Everytime Yet, Y'all Never Knowledge Them, So Stop Making That Argument. Also... Stop Making Comments In Video, I Seen Like 3 Comments From U, So Please Stop. This Is Not Like TikTok Where U Have Character Limits 🙄.
For MOST characters their race/ethnicity does not matter. But for some it absolutely does
Off the top of my head, Captain America, Red Skull, Magneto, Baron Zemo, and Baron Von Strucker pretty much need to be white. On the flip side, Black Panther, Storm, Blue Marvel, and Isiah Bradley need to be black.
Captain America is an interesting example, because I Absolutely Agree that Steve Rogers should be the Aryan Ideal, because it's the most effective foil to Red Skull.
But Captain America is a Title, and the idea that the title, values, and identity of Captain America must be permanently bound to Steve is itself an argument about whether or not anybody can live up to the ideals of Cap
@@zacharybosley1935
Steve has an Irish background…..
@@SuperShanko and does that make him less of a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Superhuman?
@@SuperShanko The Irish are Aryan.
@SuperShanko do you know where Ireland gets its name from?
Amen, brother(finally glad someone brought up the original White Wolf)
its clearly going over your head. We're just tired of race swapped characters when they have perfectly good actors to play the role that are just as good and look the role better. It's just annoying when they target red head characters and specifically race swap them to black actors, it's clearly intentional and on purpose. They didn't start with "whose the best actor for the job" They started with "How can we add as many DEI and other programs of such and make the roles less white". Then they say "its the best actor for the job" when its obviously not. If you want to be DEI or whatever at least don't pretend like its anything but that clear goal in mind. It's clearly political, and happening not just in movies but in almost everything and anything.
To me personally, changing a character's race is fine if their race doesn't really impact their character much. For example, a black Flash could work, but something like a black Shang Chi wouldn't make any sense.
Nah don't change it in the first place.
You just explained it there. Flash is a title, not a name, whereas Shang Chi is an actual character with a name. When you’re changing a character’s race but keeping their backstories in check, then you’re alienating fans of that character, such as with Black Wally. All in all, but a bad character, admittedly, but fans of actual Wally, including JL/JLU fans, were none too pleased.
Most common sense answer….. Also ide rather have had Iris Alba as blue Marvel (my favorite character) than a Norse god.
I don’t like a black flash, Barry is a blond and Wally is a red head, now the other Wally is a different story, I like the new Wally West. I wouldn’t want a white cyborg or a white blade. Black panther should never be swapped because being black ties in with his history from day one. There’s a lot of dope black hero’s I’d rather see than the same hero’s being race swapped. Like John Stewart, I’d love to see a green lantern movie with him as the lead. Now Will Smith as deadshot is a little meh imo I liked Idris Bloodsport much better.
How significant was Wally's red hair to the narrative of The Flash? @@thebeesknees9954
I thought he was lightskin
even lightskin BP would get heavy criticism
Great video Benny! You articulated why and when you should change a character's characteristics. I believe that primary characters should be basically unchanged except for certain exceptions such as time periods and live action where technology has not caught up to the present. There is a descending slope for secondary and tertiary characters only to make them relevant in modern times and not to make a statement or on general principle.
There have been instances where race swapping a main character have worked out well. Michael Clarke Duncan playing the Kingpin in Daredevil is a perfect example of this. Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury in the MCU isn't a problem because it wasn't strictly based on the Marvel 616 Universe. I found it awkward when they introduced this character in the 616 universe and the other characters made reference to him looking like Samuel L. Jackson.
My issue with Pedro Pascal is with his age, he's 48 now so he probably won't be able to be in the role for very long.
Just leave the characters alone. It's absolutely ridiculous to change any of their colors or sex. So stupid.
Sometimes there is. Or at least no reason not to. It’s only people whinging that causes a problem
Don’t race swap characters like black panther and Wonder Woman cause their race matters
@@JayGC but that's the point. Why would you? They are fine just the way they have been for decades. It's absolutely crazy to change a race or sex just because. There should be a good reason for it. Otherwise, why in the heck would someone want to change the original creators work that has stood the test of time. Unless it somehow improves the character, it's totally senseless and uncalled for. No one needs to whine about it. It's just a fact. As of late, they do it just because, woke. Not a valid reason.
@@dqreps A lot of it comes down to money. And it’s not as “woke” as you think, I’m not going to get into a discussion if we throwing that stupid word around by the way so let’s have this be the final note on that - sometimes studios want hot woman in a male dominated film *to make money*. That’s not very ‘woke’, right? They want a black man of woman in there to cast a wider net and again, make more money. Sometimes though, the casting is genuinely just perfect. Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury? Perfect. Couldn’t have picked a better actor. I realise he was based on Sam Jackson’s likeness in Ultimate, but they weren’t doing Ultimate.
These decisions are almost always about money and that’s really the end of it.
@@JayGCright, usually maybe about money but not always. There is the message whether you like it or not. It's obviously backfiring and they are losing tons of money. Disney in particular. So it's not working. If it's about money then, they should be changing things pretty quick since they are losing millions cause no one wants that trash. The tide is shifting. When something isn't working, do something else. That's really all there is to it.
There is almost never a reason to race/gender swap a character. We need to start making original characters instead. I also feel like politics should stay the heck away from FICTION. It is fiction for a reason
Race/gender swapping a character usually doesn’t have anything to do with politics. It’s literally whatever creators that’s working on the projects original interpretation. It’s like why none of the bat suits are the same suit through all the different interpretations. If like Benny said the characters race or gender does not have anything to do their storylines or character development then manipulating them for entertainment should not be seen as a problem.
That’s the whole point of fiction is it’s not real. It’s not finite. It’s open to interpretation. It’s art. And when you have one subject in the hands of multiple artists obviously someone’s going to have their own unique take on
@@TheCosmicWave1changing a suit design when it one of many is not the same Batman Ironman superman spider man all have the different suits but when you change skin colour race that way different just like if people were to take Mona Lisa and swapped it out with a black women it just not right don’t take someone else’s work and twisted just because you like what they did but think they would look better with a different skin colour and often different personality
@@thewishy23 then how boring the content you consume must be. I’m sorry you and others who share your opinion have to see the same thing over and over
@@TheCosmicWave1 I'm completely fine with artists creating alternative versions or variants and telling their own version of the story, but the main ones should be the accurate ones. I love Miles Morelles, but if he had just replaced Spiderman or they just changed spiderman to him I would absolutely hate him. Every characters race and gender plays at least SOME part in their character, how they act with others, who they love, their friends, their interests. They're small, but together they all add up. Now I love what Marvels What IF did with starlord. They didn't gender swap him, the took another well-known character and put him in the role instead and kept his likeable personality. I believe that you could also do a white Black Panther in an alternative universe, it's a mantle and even if it wasn't, in an infinite multiverse, there is guaranteed to be one. Maybe even a wild West one.
Well said Benny
Why are people so upset about Pedro Pascal casting when he isn’t even the first Hispanic to play in these movies? Were people this upset over Jessica Alba playing Sue Storm?