Problem With MCU Changing Powers... I Pissed Off The Internet
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
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The new channel which will be this style, bascically OCmmentary where I talk about Drama, Other Movies, WEird News and such. First video drops soon! www.youtube.com/@BennyHasAProblem
Bud.... I hate to break your bubble but marvel already said that the mcu was a different universe then the comics.
Is that goku in the back? And Mona? Didn't know he liked genshin.
@@MrMrking1984 That's not the question he asked
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING IN YOUR VIDEOS? STOP SHOUTING
But seriously it is ridiculous that they changed miss marvel like this
@jetnight88 again the earth 616 is not the same as the comics 616. Two different multiverse. Meaning different powers and orgins!
"Powers don't matter" 😂 they wouldn't say that if spider-man started flying around and shooting laser intead of wall crawling and web slinging in his first live action movie/show
It only doesn’t matter when the character isn’t popular.
Like, using this as an example due to the Spider-Man point, when they made Jessica Drew have regular on-brand Spider-Powers in Into the Spiderverse rather than her bioelectricity
@@robertparkhurst4034that’s a combination of powers as she has Ultimate Jessica's power while the look (somewhat) of 616 Jessica.
Yah, but that's called captain universe
Interesting point, I’d be pissed if they changed Spidey’s powers, though to be fair while I didn’t like it, I got why they gave him organic webbing, but because I knew nobody had a clue about Ms Marvel and her character was kept intact I didn’t mind the power change. With that said she has very generic stretching powers and Spidey has Spider powers. It bothers me more when they give say Superman a random cellophane S in Superman 2.
@@isaozimmeryeah but they’re talking about his origins not a different universe entirely and even then he started out as regular spiderman
Don’t forget about Shang chi. They gave him air bender powers and the ability to wield the ten rings!
Yeah isn't he just asian Multiply Man/Naruto if he resembled Bruce Lee originally?
He wasn't even meant to be that either. that's new bullcrap they added a few years ago for no good reason. @handlebarsmustache
@@jamcalxpretty sure originally he’s just one of the most well-trained and experienced martial artists on earth, right?
@@jamcalx oh rip
@@handlebarsmustache he was the guy in Marvel everyone went to go train with martial arts
You're right, changing Ms marvels powers has nothing to do with making her a Mutant. I think the reason changed her powers was to make her more cosmic-oriented, to tie her into captain marvel more. Not saying that's a good reason, but it's probably what made sense in the writers room.
I am fairly sure they were cheaper to make as well.
It’s also possible with the fantastic four joining up they didn’t want two characters with visually the same stretchy powers
It was budgetary reasons. Fx specialists couldnt make embiggening look good. Hard light is easier to make. I am terrified what happens with Mr. Fanrastic in FF.
@@mosesoftheblock2311 presumably they will have a movie budget to work with
Look at Dr. Strange MOM. It already looked dumb and all he did was move his arm in a straight line@@mosesoftheblock2311
Legit the Director of Echo changed her powers because she thought her comic abilities were "Lame"
Because of course.
Hmmm Black Widow's director must have felt the same way because of that abomination we were meant to call Taskmaster in that movie
So… the ability to perfectly mimic people’s fighting styles is lame, but enhanced physical ability and good aim is cooler? Can’t say I’m surprised
@@Step43099
Ironic
@@Step43099absolutely
All I ever want is for writers and directors to respect the material they pull from. Yet as you said so many are more interested in forcing their own touch into it. As nobody wanted their trash ideas elsewhere. So we end up with stuff like Master Cheeks and it kills any chance we had to see our beloved property as it should have been for at least a decade. As they wait for everyone to forget the old one and so forth.
I don’t have the cash for every comic and I’m glad people like you keep me in the loop. That said I did know the power changes and was not a fan of it. :)
And respect their fans
Sometimes there are instances when the changes are made for the better, but the source material in western comics in general really filled with people forcing changes. If not then it’s a different universe entirely
@@blueflare4139
And that’s understandable and reasonable, some adjustments are gonna be made when adapting from one medium to another. As long as we can recognise the characters and stories,
It's because film makers have egos, and they want to make their own thing. They don't mind having a base to work from, but they want to make it their own.
Sometimes it can work out alright, but often times it doesn't.
@@JohnClark-tt2bl
So Rian in a nutshell
Honestly, I kind of liked how one of Ms. Marvel’s powers was the ability to shape shift. It feels appropriate given the fact she clearly wanted to be someone other than who she was at the time: she wanted to be like Carol Danvers. so when she got her powers, the first thing she did was transform into Ms. Marvel (Carol) but it didn’t make her feel any better. I thought that was actually a pretty clever way to characterize someone who can change their shape and form for their origin
Guys where do you read the comic and what are all the ongoing titles right now if someone could please help me
Growing body part size was also extremely unique to her. Dummies thought it was stretchy powers.
A comic reader with media literacy!?>!??!?!?!! I swear, I nearly had a heart attack!!
Yep. It also fit the themes of a coming of age story. A teenager with powers that involve changing their body? Like, there was a point to her having those powers, coming to terms with what she was becoming and what that road leads her. They changed EVERYTHING about that in the show. Most of the Ms Marvel fans that I know personally were pretty upset at that change, even if they enjoyed the show.
The whole ¨she wants to be like Carol Danvers¨ is so nonsensical and stupid to begin with. Captain Feminist spend her entire ¨superhero¨ career in SPACE, nobody on planet earth aside from Nick Fury and the Avengers knows who the fkk she is. She's no Ironman, no Thor, no Black Widow. How did she become a ¨pop culture icon¨? it makes no sense. Another proof that Marvel's writers are inept clowns
I mean....that's what's been happening for a while. Hack creators who can't get their own IPs off the ground reskinning them with existing ones in attempts to prove their project would've worked. Never does, and as a result they damage the existing IP.
Proof that the norm with people is to just to talk out their a$$ without knowing anything. Also, if you wanted real, competent responses then you should have said “to my comic book readers”
That's 99% of people though, even comic book readers tend to get caught up in an ego trip that THEY know what's what and God forbid they're wrong.
Way to vaguely say nothing. Another thing dummies do, who don't know what they're talking about.
They also changed Taskmasters abilities in the black widow movie. They don’t have photographic reflexes they just trained using videos of the Avengers and the programming (both mind control and costume) used to make that possible.
Spoilers: Taskmaster actually does have videos of all superheroes in fights in the comics version. He references them when he has a job where they might show up. I think he even pays people for fight footage.
@@Rhiorrha yes that’s fine. His is that he watches the videos once just in case they show up the movie is that they are continuously watching the same videos over and over again til they get it
@@shadowanderson2004 depending on if taskmaster shows up again. High chance task master will develop the ability to quickly adapt to new peoples fighting still. A lot of mcu shows generally create a baseline and develop the character overtime.
That's less changing his powers than the means in which those powers work. It's still Mimicry, just now she has a chip in her brain that lets her do it rather than just being able to do it.
Not gonna lie, the problem of Ms Marvel Powers really frustrates me....
I mean...ok, they change her Powers to energy constructs and a magical artifact i'm the MCU in fact gives her kinda of her own lore...cool!
And then then make her a mutant and STILL with the elasticity Powers in the comics...
Why?
I know that Inhumans are not canon in the MCU, reason why the Terrigen thing is not possible....
But god, talk me about not knowing what they hell to do with a character.
Well her creator did want her to be a mutant but because Fox owned the X- gene mutants so they made her an inhuman.
@@mevan883 yeah but that’s the thing, it worked. Her being an Inhuman. A hero for Jersey. Making her an X-men and a mutant has seemed to have ruined that…
I think Ms Marvel being a mutant instead of an Inhuman is more of a problem than what her powers look like. There's a lot of interesting story telling left on the table. She could have still been in The Marvels but as an Inhuman we'd have that whole Kree connection to explore. I get why they did it, and it works I guess but it could have been better.
The InHumans were apart of the Agent's Of S.H.E.I.L.D which is both apart and not apart of the MCU but the exitives of Marvel doesn't want to them to cross over with each other and make "things more confusing"
@taylormadealpha yeah the InHumans were created by the Kree Empire
Ms. Marvel’s change is easy! It cost more money to get good looking stretchy powers on screen than it does to have light based powers
If that's the reason, they shouldn't have done the show
@@BaithNathey shouldn’t of the done the show period. Ms. Marvel has never been popular and the sol reason she is being pushed is because Sana Amanat is in a key position at Marvel and she is making bank every time the character is used
@@tdcamp516 that's just wrong. Ms marvel is quite popular
@@akara6798 lololol, no she isnt...lol.
@@akara6798 shes not even in the top 200 comics sold month by month. no one buys her comics cuz no one cares about the character. shes one of the worst in marvel.
Regarding Echo apparently the director found her powers in the comics "lame"
The changed Echo's abilities because the lead director said she found them "kind of lame."
Because of course she did.
Did she read a synopsis or actually read the comic?
@@user-yq9im9dk9z 9/10 times it's just synopsis
@@user-yq9im9dk9z what do you think?
This is why Echo was one of the few people in the Marvel comics and animated media that could give Taskmaster a run for his money. What do you do if the only thing you can copy is the ability to copy? Well, her AND Deadpool, but that's because he's completely batshit crazy and unpredictable at the best of times...
Plenty of characters could give Taskmaster " a run for his money".
He is physically human. Being able to copy moves does almost nothing for him if he gets in a fight with a green giant that can wreck mountains with a punch, or a blonde guy that can throw controlled tornadoes at him or bash him into his component atoms with a magic hammer.
@@daverobson3084yeah this was a confusing comment, idk what he was thinking.
I actually never even heard of Echo till the show.
@@ThatYellowSpiderGuy just like they ruined Mandarin, Dar-Benn, Malekith, MODOK, Ronan, Arnim Zola, Ultron, and a long etc. Marvel's writers and directors have been complete inept clowns at how they portray their villains in general, with very few exceptions like Thanos and Kingpin
Even echo don’t make much sense, why does she have the same powers as taskmaster lmao why not make something original for her, her design is so cool, wasted opportunity
I think the final point he brought up was one that accurately described a big issue with both some of the newer comics and comic related shows. Over the past few years a lot of of stories or messages or changes that take place in popular characters or franchises seem like they don't belong to the specific medium and instead were other stories people thought nobody wanted to read or watch and so instead of making it for their own stories/characters they decided to stick it onto an already existing one that already has their own brand and history, because they know it's going to have way more pull on getting people to try it out. Either from the sheer popularity of the brand or sometimes even if it's not a popular character they'll still try it and pass the character off as being revamped in a better way.
But the issue with that is because the stories or messages don't fit with the characters and conflicts with their lore or the changes are too drastic and make no sense it just causes people to lose faith in those franchises and characters at least in whatever media they were altered in.
You can't really blame for people not buying some of the new comics that are just personal agendas disguised as the newest Superman or X-Men books (just speaking in general not saying these specific ones are) and then when nobody reads them they decide to alter them even more in the movies and tv shows and since a lot of people don't read the books the TV shows and movies becomes the new representation of the characters and franchises. And when that opinion is overwhelmingly negative or just not well received the incentive to actually spend the money to learn how they differ in the Comics just doesn't seem worth it.
All while people who disagree with the changes in anyway get treated like they're just hating just to hate and largely get called over the top inaccurate insults as a way to discredit their opinion on a character or story. So basically it's a lose lose you either just accept your favorite characters are no longer going to be the characters you once knew and move on not really caring about anything else new that comes out about them or you speak your opinion on how the changes to the character makes no sense and be treated like scum by the blind followers that either don't know any better or are resolved to just accept whatever content was given to them no matter what.
Too many writers getting their stories rejected so they recycle it into established properties instead.
Like how Wreck-It Ralph 2 was so far removed from the first movie.
@@ZatchZXman another big example was that awful Velma show. It clearly was just supposed to be a random satire adult show and yet they had to shoe horn in Scooby Doo characters just to get people to watch it even if it was only to see how bad the show was
This is just a mere petition from a random person on the internet but pls, for next time you make such a well written and thought out comment, space it out a little bit. Again, you make quite a few great points but reading all in a massive paragraph becomes brutal cause all the words end up jumbled together by the end.
She Ra and the Princesses of Power and Velma comes to mind
@@n.k.central8279ikr?
Also hot take here Echo's power were changed because the MCU made Taskmaster a woman and in media consumed for all audience hence non-comic readers may be confusing. For example Loki wearing blue in Thor Ragnarok since Hela was black and green along with Hulk being green. In the end these movies and shows are not made for the comic reading audience it made for the general audience that only follow the MCU Marvel media.
I mean it still could’ve worked too
agreed. They are not giving the audience enough credit to know the difference.@@blueflare4139
@@blueflare4139 Oh yeah it definitely could've.
It was a huge mistake to make Taskmaster a woman. It was an even bigger mistake making Taskmaster's identity as a woman into a plot twist with that armor fitting Chris Evans' stunt double.
I was surprised learning the irl actor playing Echo is indeed deaf herself
she's also an amputee and native american irl
Also the problem with echo is that her powers doesn't make sense.
Every woman in her lineage has problems, then a circle thingy appears on her hand and it gives her super strenght, accuracy, etc.
Where's the echo?
Isn't better that she get the knowlege of her ancestors to handle different situations?
More than echo it should be called convenient buff
they explained it in the episodes.
It's like seeing the echoes of the past and understanding how that knowledge can help you in the future
@Vamroc yeah but that is called history.
@@VamrocAnd that explanation doesn’t strike you as weird or nonsensical? From the explanation you offered, it sounds like a knowledge-based power. But it translates into superhuman physical ability instead? Because ngl, it sounds like the lessons from history she’s taking away in the show/movie(?) is not “try coming at them from the left” or “use narrow spaces to remove numbers advantage,” but basically, “next time, use bigger gun.” And she suddenly has it. In the form of superpowers.
@@Dragonpitno because it’s the same as the avatar state from the last Airbender. Same concept.
Echo wasn't created by Charles Soule; she was created by David Mack and Joe Quesada in 1999, and she definitely mattered. She was the first Ronin, before Clint Barton (Hawkeye).
I kinda did read a comic book where it was just about a really nice Peter Parker with no powers. It was called Ultimate Spider-Man #1 and it was actually pretty entertaining!
But it ended with Peter on the ceiling, didn't it?
My theory: Ms. Marvel's powers were changed not only to better connect her with Captain Marvel, but also to separate her from Mr. Fantastic when he finally appears. For Echo, it was so they can connect her powers with more with her Choctaw heritage, since the show heavily focused on that.
Oh, but that just reinforces how "woke" they wanted to make the character. Echo couldn't just have normal super powers, like mimicking fighting styles of anyone she sees. They actually turned her ethnicity into a super power. I guarantee if there was ever a character that had powers that were specifically tied to him being white, of European descent, the DEI mob would go nuts!
Nah, they changed Khamala's powers because they're desperate to promote this woke character nobody likes, DESPERATE. That's why they turned her into a bs mutant, and that's why they got rid of her stretchy mcgee powers, because they know not a single girl in the world would like to have those goofy looking powers. That's why DC'S Plastic Man is considered a joke... and Mr Fantastic is the only stretchy character in comics that is taken seriously, and that's just because he's a uber genius and serious as hell.
@@fanofgodjimindiva2497 Those powers aren't stupid. They give the characters who have them unique advantages beyond just being able to superstrech, like getting paper-thin in order to access areas that would otherwise be unreachable, being able to have gigantic fists in order to more easily fight enemy combatants in hand-to-hand combat, and being able to make their bodies act as parachutes in order to save them from fall damage.
@@Optimegatrongodzilla I didn't say those powers couldn't be useful, I said they are goofy looking, they can also look gross, creepy. and no GIRLS (the main target audience for Ms Marvel) would ever want to have those goofy ass looking powers over something like telekinesis or flying. There's a reason 99% of characters with those elastic powers are considered buffoons, like Plastic Man and Luffy. Her stretchy powers are part of the reason Ms Marvel has always been a failed unpopular character. That's not a power for girls.
@@blinkonceonsunday1325 I understand you're trying for this "Woke = Bad" By saying they won't use white people powers... but Thor is literally right there. He's literally just turning a White religion into a superpower. Nobody has "Gone nuts."
It's fine to celebrate European cultures. No one gets made at Fairies and Leprechauns, people love medieval stories, etc.
What people need to understand is there's a difference between "I'm a descendant of Vikings and I have inherited their powers and bravery, " and "I am White and therefore, I'm strong." While both are technically the same, the vikings example calls back to lineage and lore. The origin of "White" as a category of race is specifically made to differentiate from Black people, it's not an origin point/linage for a super hero.
Ultimately it comes down to the writing of it. Echo and negasonic are changes i think can work cause theres less to pull from. Ms Marvels powers are intrisically tied into the themes of self acceptance in her origin so changing them in adaptation is a much bigger deal imo.
I think Negasonic is passable because they basically fused her and Cannonball into one character.
The writers of the echo show claimed they thought her powers in the book were lame... They shouldn't of been chosen for the job.
Great video, very constructive. That’s my big critique with the superhero content recently, changing things that don’t need changing. IMO, Ms. Marvel would still be different from Mr. Fantastic if she had her stretch powers because in the books at one point, they explain she uses time travel when she embbigens (correct me if I’m wrong). The best content that I hear and seen so far is the invincible series, because they try and stay true to the comic as much as possible. I know that some scenarios or characters aren’t exactly the same as the books but the overall core is still there. @comicstorian I’m excited for webstorian 😊
Yep
Original character creation is a lost art. When you hire based on race and gender that’s the upshot.
@@jrwilliams4029
Ditto
Similar powers, but different strokes.
From what I read (not the biggest Marvel fan):
Ms. Marvel's power reflects her identity. She's a teenaged muslim girl living in New York. She feels insecure about herself and her identity despite her outward appearance. She feels like she needs to change in order to be accepted. To be like her predecessor Captain Marvel. But slowly she stops shapeshifting and grows more into her heritage and self. She chooses to embiggen and shrink. That mask isn't for hiding, it's a part of who she is.
Mr. Fantastic is a celebrity scientist. He uses his power for fame and noteriety as world's leading scientist! However. That's all for show. Because deep down, Reed is riddled with guilt. The reason why he plays up being a super hero is so that his friends aren't shunned from society for being freaks and monsters that were a result of his reckless and careless mistake. He extends himself to get in the way of the heat, shielding his loved ones until he can fix all of this.
That's my take on the difference. Feel free to tell me otherwise because Marvel isn't my strong suit.
@@ZatchZXmanYou're not wrong about their motivations, and it was rather poetically exemplified, but I think (not that I know for sure) that some of this is getting a couple of the points of movies and comics mixed up.
Spider-Man, for example, is a complete package, following a simpler time of comic live action adaptation in a less character-saturated niche. The existence of Spider-Man shows and the timelessness of his origin dictates that, like Batman, it makes sense to just rinse and repeat- staying who he is just prints money for the studio.
Mr. Fantastic is all the things you describe, but getting to that summation of his motivations was a more recent twist to his behaviors. The celebrity showmanship of his science as a form of letting his family be more accepted and celebrated in the public's eyes isn't some baked in origin from the character inception, it is a product of sensible, deeper psychological explorations of what were once looked at as characters for kid-centric floppies.
As such, we don't ever see something harped upon such as, "I must be showy and inventive so they love us and don't decry my family as monsters because of my mistake!" in any of the F4 movies - the closest thing was him being silly and stretchy in the first Fox film when the crowd started gathering (not counting the ill-fated Corman one). I don't think that's even ever been portrayed as some big motivating factor in any of the animated shows. What they always highlight for Reed is the challenge and strain between him and his best friend for turning (and being unable to reverse) him to a rock monster.
So that brings us to Ms. Marvel. Though her powers, and the parallels of being more confident as her own person with the lesser use of his shapeshifting is a cool juxtaposition, it has never been what sends us back to the character like "With great power must also come great responsibility" does. What exudes from Kamala Khan has always been her bounciness, her ideals, her family dynamic, her loyalty, her culture, and even the idealism that despite being inspiring also gets her into conflict with the jaded world - i.e., how her naivete grinds against the way the world works in the situations she falls into.
So, all of that to say, the core essentials to tell on screen was never going to be "Be more like myself, be my own hero!" because in today's story telling and audience consumption norms, unless a character was spelling out "This is why she shapeshifts less now" or an article or RUclipsr followed up to explore that story beat, no one would draw the parallels (in the movie medium). Introspective discoveries like that don't pop the same way as the fun, wholesome family dynamic, acceptance of less showcased cultures, and the peppy personality while telling a Ms. Marvel story.
In the show, though the way to get her there seemed forced, the chance to cover the history of Pakistani people fleeing on those trains was more important than touching on the personal journey of a teen from morphing into another person for acceptance and wish fulfillment.
And they could still circle back and delve into her not fangirling blindly about her hero and being her own example of what a hero should be (in 'The Marvels'). All making the shapeshifting bit non-essential, doubly so since that is not a staple of her comic for all the reasons we know.
Marvel giving up on comic fans is insane. “We cater to Hollywood now so that comic-accurate stuff you’re so invested in is in the past. Get over it”
And that is going to lose them money. MCU fans become Marvel fans who get interested in the comics, while the more casual fans and first time audiences would get confused over continuity details like the Statue of Liberty being copper in the 2020's.
I think that the only reason they changed Miss Marvel powers was to match the “light based power” binding plot point of The Marvels, which is just a plot device to keep the characters close (they might as well got handcuffed together) it didn’t had anything to do with the mutant change. Movies are conceived way before the shows and I think that the screenwriters have a bit more power to make those calls. Adjacent materials like shows and even the comic books then adapt to that change. (It sucks to call comic books “adjacent material” when it comes to Marvel, but movies now make more money and cultural impact, that’s why we can see in the comics introduce movie exclusive characters, existing character changes or even status quo changes to match the movies or promote an upcoming movie plot)
The movie could have come up with a different excuse to bring the Marvels together without the stupid body-switching plot changing one of the heroes' powers and failing to explain why other Marvel characters with light-type powers like Karolina Dean and Dagger didn't switch with them. There's a Super-Skrull with Carol's powers, now. Why didn't she switch when she used Carol's powers? Also, if they wanted those bands and light constructs, they could have used Phyla-Vell.
The reason I stay away from twitter for Facebook platforms like that I don’t like arguments come people cant we just like something without an argument starting 😅.
To quote 3 Dog "Fight the Good Fight" Benny
I wrapped my head around is that she can echo her ancestors ability through time. If that's what's happening it's different but not some radical change. It's their adaptation of echoing or copying abilities. That's how I thought about it.
That's a massive leap.
Thats what I saw the show portray pretty clearly. It wasn't complicated idk why some people get confused lmao. Its infinitely better and more interesting rather than her being a target taskmaster.
And for some weird reason only the girls get the powers in her family
What does that even mean? 😂😂😂
Can you explain what her powers are?
@@BaithNa basically she is connected spiritually to the greatest women of her bloodline "just because".
So I think I can explain echoes reason is a similar situation to Miles, for a while Miles couldn’t work for the general audience but multiple writers would try to make Miles work because they wanted to be the one to say they made Miles work. Eventually they finally did it and everyone follow that guideline but for Echoes they want to make her appeal to the general audience so that way they could have a general guideline to use her in everything. As for ms marvel, they have her powers as such to replace ms marvel would Brie contract ends
You’re absolutely right. They used to just change the personalities in the mcu to market the characters better but now since these are lesser known characters to the general public, they can do whatever they can do whatever. The only people who are gonna care is those people who read the comics. I had a conversation with one of the guys who works at my local comic shop about this topic and he agreed 110%
Echo wasn’t created by Charles Soule. She was created by David Mack and Joe Quesada years before Soule’s. As for Ms Marvel’s power change, I think the two main reasons were 1, to differentiate her powers from Reed Richards when he eventually debuts and 2, because the stretchy powers can look super cheesy if you skimp on the CGI budget. Making them light constructs makes it easier to create those on a Disney+ budget, giving them more time to perfect them for Reed in the F4 movie.
If he even does.
Lol this is totally splitting hairs but technically he debuted in that Dr Strange movie where he got turned into string cheese 15 mins after showing up
👏😎 dang that energy 😮🫨 you are cool Benny/Comicstorian and thank you for clear and informative takes of (positivity without trolling of ) various comic stories and runs that have changed or altered adaptation from media of movie/streaming show.
For Echo, there was an interview with the writer or director where they stated the reason for the power change was the photo-reflexes power from the comic was lame and wouldn't work for the story they wanted to tell. That was the reason for the change.
Thats kinda dumb though
its like if the MCU have Hulk be a guy who become a huge yellow woman that has super speed, then its not even the Hulk no more
You are absolutely right about creators "selling or pitching a show". If no studio wants to buy the show they attach a familiar or established IP "intellectual property" to bring in an audience, despite the initial show or idea being very bad or have nothing to do with the IP.
This is the current business practice of self insert in TV or movies. Example Halo, Velma. There have been articles and videos acknowledging this very subject.
Yeah, Velma was very bad. So bad that it didn't even have Scooby-Doo in it!
With Miss Marvel, it was for setting up the reinterpreted Nega Bands and quantum entanglement in the movie Marvels. All three heroines had powers related to light and energy, all three has Marvel in their heroines name (at least, at some point in the comic), and it also made for a way to explain not having powers too similar to Mister Fantastic, yes, but the two reasons are quantum-entangled themselves. They knew a lot of fans for those three characters wanted to see them together at some point, hence why they set them up in Captain Marvel, and in the Middle Marvel show to fit together later.
Plus stretchy powers are pretty difficult to make look decent
They should have used Phyla-Vell instead. As Quasar, she had the Nega Bands and she was Captain Marvel at one point.
@@SeanWheeler100 Agreed.
I think it's just for film making and vfx reasons. Its easier to show light beams than not creepy looking stretching. And easier to show echo strength than mimicking another character
I will be honest here i dont even care that much about superheros but seeing you discuss superhero related things with such passion its hella entertaning
i hate how the comics copied the MCU when it should be the other way around, because not only sometimes they change the power, now Ajax, Makkari and Sprite also change their genders in the comics just because of the MCU like why?!
You and me both
The case of drax they changed him completely but the keep some similarities his love for his family stayed the same different powers but they made him grey instead of green with the reason there are already multiple green people and he was gonna be on a team with a green person at least they’ve given a reason for the change of appearance
6:09 Nerdrotic: So you have chosen death.
I never bought the whole they changed Ms.Marvel & ECHO because of insert (Blank) characters.
There's multiple SSs.
3 iron men.
A whole league of
BLK widows.
Multiple Sorcerer's.
5 HULKs if you count
abomination and pre RH ross.
Actually four Iron Man. Did you miss Rescue or Ironheart?
I think it’s because of them not wanting to use the T-mist and not wanting to use the inhumans even though we had black bolt. So who knows 🤷🏾♂️
I think in the case of Ms. Marvel it’s a mix of stretch powers looking weird in live action and an excuse to get her to team up with the rest of the Marvels
If that's the case, then don't make a show about Ms.Marvel if you are gonna make that drastic of a change. It just feels insincere and like she is just serving another character's story.
You forget that Mr.Fantastic is also have a stretch power.
@@johnsantos507 no I didn’t forget that, his cgi doesn’t look very good but they can’t change him, they can get away with changing Ms. Marvel
@@johnsantos507if they’re planning a fantastic four movie, and that’s a big if, I could forgive what they did with Khamala’s powers. Otherwise, it’s dumb.
@@Savagewolver I know both Kamala Khan and Reed Richards have a stretch power, but their powers are different.
well, there is Kick-Ass, which, I remember correctly, is basically peter parker without powers, without great responsability, but he goes to street and saves people
14:46 this is the hardest hit and most frustrating part of comic book movies. They are not created for you want to collect comics.
Might not be right to compare but when Anime changes things from the manga you normally are encouraged to find out why by reading the manga. Again this isn’t every case but they end up simplifying the powers mainly because of how fast animation moves compared to reading boxes of text between around and next to the art.
Changing a character’s powers or taking them away can change how they engage with the world and themselves. As much as I like Ms. Marvel’s power change it does affect her internal and external conflicts.
How?
@@everettjohnson9374 In Powerpuff Girls the movie. The Powerpuff Girls accidently destroy Townsville while playing tag and the town hates them. Because they have super strength they have to play with the other kids carefully and can't go at full power. If they had weaker powers this wouldn't be as much of an issue. I haven't watched Ms. Marvel or read the comics so I can't tell you how changing her stretch powers to green lantern powers changed her external conflict.
@@everettjohnson9374 I'll give you another example in the Teen Titans Go epsidoe Power Tower. It was late at night. Cyborg was energized and wanted to hang out. The rest of the titans were tired. Cyborg wonders why they aren't tired and Starfire says " You are half robot there is a lot less of you to get tried."
I was told that Marvel said they changed Miss Marvel because they didn’t want her to get the Same powers of someone else to come into the MCU being Reed Richards
It's not only that. It's also because Kamala has to service Carol's movie. So stretchy powers wouldn't have looked well according to the people in charge. Which very much self defeat the purpose of a Ms.Marvel tv show if it only exists for a fucking movie to happen.
@@proto245 yup its a thematic thing, so it ties into the Light based powers that the Marvels are being set up to have. And it makes her different enough from Mr Fantastic.
Yeah, but, Carol Danvers was the FIRST canonically Ms. Marvel. Captain Marvel in Marvel comics was named, I shit you not, Mar Vel, captain of the science division of the Kree Empire, Father of Hulking. Hank Pym was, in comics, the creator of Ultron. The fact that Ultron is evil is because of the processing unit that Pym built was made off of his own brain scans, which has been revealed to be a brain with Bipolar Disorder.
I get the idea that Disney and Marvel have the Multiverse and all.
@@KRiderMan1248 The problem is she already is different enough to Reed in the comics. They just didn't want to read them, or make the effort to make them different, so they took the lazy way out. Her heritage might play a role in her story, but it's not the entire theme of it. Again, they had to change this because Kamala had no reason to feel insecure about herself physically speaking since her powers are pretty, and similar to her idol's.
Thematically speaking, it's weaker than the comic counterpart. Which adds more reason that the change is once again was to service The Marvels.
This is also how 10 Cloverfield Lane was done. Originally a movie called "The Cellar"
The biggest problem is that the comics that the shows etc are based around, aren’t being read by the people who watch the show. Each episode should have an ad for the best stories of that character. Imagine how many more books Invincible would have sold if Amazon had a link to buy them at the end of each episode.
The idea that they had to change their powers because its too similar to another character is dumb because there's no end of characters that can fly, have super strength and shoot lasers.
They didn't have to change anyone's powers but they do it because these writers have zero respect for the source material and they think they're more creative than the original creators.
When you hire activists based on race and gender who are consumed more with showing the reader their worldview, or sending the reader a not so subtle message you get dross like Echo, Ms Marvel in the Xmen and the rest of the gargantuan Hindenburg that is the m-she-u. Like the Hindenburg the m-she-u will inevitably end in disaster.
@@jrwilliams4029
Especially when said characters do have potential
Exactly
@@jrwilliams4029 not everything is a political conspiracy :/ i don't like the power changes either but i feel it's probably more because of Mr. Fantastic or cgi reasons
I figured when it came to the change for Miss marvel, it was so it would look better on film.
But did it look better tho?
@carbootstudios2459 I didn't say they did. Just give a logical answer. I believe they could have done well with her powers. But they didn't have enough flash to stand out the way the MCU likes the powers to do. Most of the big names have flashie powers or use flashie weapons because people like pretty lights in their films.
@@benjaminhoak9884
Just saying, it comes down to execution.
Along with the points you brought up (budget constraints and Mr Fantastic comparisons), the reason why they would specifically want hard-light constructs to replace stretchy skin is because they had this idea for "The Marvels" and they all had to be consistently powered. Photon and captain marvel both have light/ energy powers so I guess marvel thought kamala would be the odf one out.
Hey Benny, I don't have a lot of weight here. Haven't exactly been a massive fan of Miss Marvel, but I do have a background in CGI and I know a thing or two about movies and games. I was still quite disappointed in her powers being changed because it felt like cheaping out. The ability to grow or shrink individual body parts is quite intriguing. And there's a lot of rook for creativity and expression there. It's also hard to communicate, hard to make feel "natural", higher ceiling for looking "right". Hard light feels like a cheap trick to get around all that, and it's something we've seen a million times before.
I feel like changing the powers is fine if they keep in line with the character and something interesting can be done with them.
Like in theory Superman when he got the Super Flare. It was a new power, yeah, but also it was a natural extension of a preexisting ability. Oh, he gets power from the sun? He has heat vision? What if he dumps all that power into a mega heat blast?
Stuff like that is fine.
It’s when a character’s abilities change so much that they aren’t really them anymore. It can be done well, sure, but usually you get lost in what the character is supposed to be doing.
If I have a character who’s power is Chi Manipulation like Iron Fist, then their lore, supporting cast and enemies tend to revolve around that. Ways to expand it, get around it, what it means for them, etc. Of I suddenly go around and say “Nah, they actually have Biokinesis and can alter their body in 28 different ways” then suddenly all the old stuff gets kinda muddied. And while I can make new things, the old stuff is still the core of that character.
If I move the engine from one car into another, it’s the same engine sure, but it’s still a new car.
I'm still upset about Kamala's power change given how tied it is to the emotional beats of her origin. I think for Kamala it matters to her character.
I never really read Echo and she was a blanker canvas than Kamala so I had less issues with the power change. I think Echo was a special case of discovering Alaqua who allowed them to tell a richer story and expand the Echo mythos
I was upset initially too. They changed her to make her a cog in the mcu. Bit Iman velani sis such a good job, between her show and her movie, that I find it hard to get caught up in what we lost. Though it would have been better for her show to have been 2 seasons to give us time to SEE what her season finally implies, and to give the clandestine and the red daggers more room to breath and develop.
@@isaozimmer Can't have that. The Marvels take center stage. Kamala is just another cog within the MCU. I'm not as forgiving because it was clear Feige only wanted Kamala for his team up, nothing more.
Ms Marvel’s first 10 issues are better than any new characters’ in the last decade. Shame they ruined her.
they changed the powers so they can make a more cosmic level Avengers with obscure characters and capture the lightning they had with Ironman Thor etc the first time. Simply put they changed the powers to suit the story they wanted to tell and replace the infinity stones e.i. time reality space etc. A more cosmically inclined Avengers team to handle more cosmic level threats.
It’s so weird how they did echo because everything about that show kinda had no real pull of interest or point. The trailer was the only thing that drew me in. I agree with you Ben, this is so confusing and strange
For what it's worth, the creator of Ms. Marvel wanted her to be a mutant and not Inhuman but because Fox owned the movie rights at the time, the change was made.
In hindsight that didn't make sense really. By the time she was introduced into the MCU, she was changed to being a mutant in that continuity while her being a inhuman in the comics. It didn't make sense to not allow the Creator of Ms. Marvel to make her Mutant in the comics.
U know a conversation like that won't be peaceful and fun. You'll be either woke or a Nazi. Either way, off base and highly disrespectful.
"Thing was fine" truly has been lost to time
So you’re just going to walk around on egg shells because you don’t wanna hurt people feelings? Who cares about other people feelings believe in your opinions and stand by it, man up it’s okay to believe in what you say.
@@mikebreezy0587 what are u talking about? It's not normal discourse to talk shit and call people names bc u don't agree with what they're saying. That conversation stopped being a fun little debate. Screaming you like Echo so ur woke (whatever that means) and then u don't like it so you're Nazi is not manning up or standing on what u believe. Comicstorian said he went into this trying to have a fun conversation and that didn't happen. Obviously; just talking about what he said is producing the same lame results lol.
Yessssss Benny commentary channel is what I didn't know I needed this year!
Loving your new content
The thing that most of you do not get is that somehow, this version of Echo is their version of Iron Fist. At the end of the day, her powers are pretty much the same ones as Iron Fist, but they replaced the dragon with her ancestors. Why? Maybe because they are not interested in re-introducing Iron Fist or to re-use the Iron Fist from the Netlfix show (and many people might agree with this). Also because that oriental "martial arts champion" spot has been already filled by Shang-Chi. So, with Echo they will their own Native american version of Iron Fist, to use in their street level heroes team 😀
Similarly, when it comes to Miss Marvel, they transferred to her some of the powers that the original Captain Marvel had in the comics. As for example, by re-interpreting the Nega-bands into her bangles. But those were Captain Marvel's powers, that is, creating light construct (similarly to Green Lantern) in the comics. And they give them to her, since we will never see or have the original Captain Marvel in the MCU. Plus, this tights her more closely to Carol Danver's Captain Marvel and Monica Rambeau's Photon powers. But you people are too lazy to establish and try to understand these connections that really make a lot of sense in the context of the MCU.
Rob's little moment about realizing that he wasn't on green screen. So he didn't actually have anything to point to is so delightful.
16:15 thats literally the JOKER movie, its a great movie, but you can literally tell the exact same story removing every DC thing from that and not lose anything
I learned from an interview with Ms Marvel’s creator, that she always intended for Ms Marvel character to be a mutant. Although I forgot, as to why she wasn’t allowed to make her a mutant at first.
She wasn't allowed to make her a mutant because Ike Perlmutter restricted the creation of new mutant characters because the MCU was competing with Fox's X-Men at the time and he didn't want to give the competition new characters. Mutant non-X-Men characters such as Squirrel Girl had their mutant status retconned away. The Fantastic Four comics were cancelled around the time Fant4stic was made. The X-Men and Fantastic Four weren't allowed to appear in video games which caused the whole controversy for Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. Yet, this doesn't explain why Marvel still wrote a whole bunch of X-Men series at the time.
But while I hope Squirrel Girl gets introduced as a mutant in the MCU, Kamala was better off as an Inhuman. Also, I hate that her stretching powers were changed to light constructs.
I thought they change Ms. Marvel's powers cause trying to make a movie with her old powers would be difficult or just more expensive. Am I wrong about that?
Yeah you're wrong, her powers is only shapeshifting and elongated body there's nothing difficult about that
Well maybe, at least for Ms.Marvel, it could be an amalgamation of things, She's to similar to Mr.Fantastic so they wanted to change her to give her own kinda thing? And then went with Hard Light construc because of her admiration for Ms.Marvel and having a power closely related to her Idol would add to her own thing?
And I'm guessing with Echo its more that she was too similar to Taskmaster but since there wasn't much on her for story, lore and the PF hasn't been introduced yet to the MCU, maybe it was a creative decision to go with something that could pass of as Echo (Like they said in the show, your past lives are echoing through you and everyone from your lineage) Im really fine with this since I really can't think of marvel character that does that but I may be wrong
Plus like Iman said, this world is not the 616, so maybe that's why it opens up for creative inputs on the characters
Why is it a problem to have two stretchy characters when we already have 20 characters that can fly, have super strength and shoot lasers?
To be honest, none, DC has Plastic Man and Elongated man, I also don't see the problem with it BUT they do own Marvel and those characters and I'm guessing if they want to take creative decisions with some characters its really up to them and who they hire
In the words of Pitch Meeting “carefullll”.
You are correct. People dont read enough comics. I destroy so many people in arguments because people forget these characters exist outside of the MCU..
Read your comics folks!
the people you fought with were probably just keyboard warriors that don't really watch or read comics. with Nerd culture being in the mainstream now there is an influx of posers that claim to love DC or Marvel but know little to nothing about them or what they mean to real fans. I had a debate with a person that claimed to be a super fan but had no idea the DC and Marvel universes were separate.
changing powers isn't even a new thing Is anyone else remember the toby mcguire's spider man. The organic webbed that came out of his wrists that was so disgusting. Cause I remember and it's still as gross today as it was back then
And even still, they still go back to normal web shooters in later media
Great video! Finally someone had to say it! Keep this going bro. This is a good different side of you. 👍
i wonder if they changed ms.marvels power so she wouldnt be confusing when we get the fantastic four?
Is it confusing when 10 other characters have super strength, flight and the ability to shoot lasers?
@@BaithNa very true
Say it Benny. M-SHE-U
Cry. Woman exist, have a right to be in spotlight.
@@aerindinescarro47
Good women characters of course.
You know, ones that people actually like.
@@aerindinescarro47we need more female characters in comic book movies
@@carbootstudios2459we need more female characters in comic book movies
@@yarc9
Good ones we actually like.
My theory has always been that they changed the powers so that way every character in the mcu is “different” they wouldn’t want two characters to have stretchy powers especially if they were both going to be leads in their own projects. Taskmaster and Mr fantastic did appear first in the mcu, yes small roles but they both have their comic book powers. Ms marvel and echo came after, so having the same powers wouldn’t seem satisfying to the viewer or whatever. I personally do not agree with that, I think it would be interesting for Reed and Kamala to meet and have Reed wonder why her powers are so similar despite them getting them in a different way. Since she’s a mutant and he’s not, it would probably peek his curiosity and I would love to see that personally.
I noticed they changed Ms. Marvel's powers too. I guess they thought making her bodyparts grow would look creepy in live-action.
You’re not an angry guy. You really just really resonate with me with your viewpoints on these characters just about every time you drop these. I’m an 84 baby.
People just want any reason to argue or call people something cause they feel a way about characters who've already been around.. God forbid you have an opinion without being berated for having valid thoughts and opinions. Some people just have to live in chaos so all they need is an opinion to attack.
I think that there is a solid posibility that the Echo show or the Halo one (never watch it, don't care) where random scripts that did not get greenlighted until a superhero character or concept was part of it. Makes a lot of sense if you watched Echo, was mid to boring
echo was amazing. ive heard nothing but good things about it til coming here to this video lol
Your true fans are with you, pretty epic what you are doing and have done in life so far, real life hero, thanks from us all Benny.
Some characters whose powers were changed in the MCU (besides Echo and Ms. Marvel)
Captain America (does not actually have superhuman powers in the comics
Black Widow (can stick to walls in the comics due to her costume)
Baron Zemo (has super adhesive tech and is a master swordsman)
Captain Marvel (has Seven Senses/Cosmic Awareness)
I could go on, but you get the idea.
But UM ACTUALLY none of the characters’ powers were changed: the MCU characters are from universe 199999 ( as stated in Across the Spiderverse), not 616 (as stated in Dr. Strange 2)
You are a reasonable person who has up to date information therefore you are far right
Honestly, I feel like people keep forgetting that the MCU isn't actually Earth-616. Characters can and should exist independently of their comic origins to allow for different stories to take place. This can even come back to power sets. But the thing about it is that the change in powers should have a payoff down the line. It shouldn't be change for the sake of change. I get where you're coming from. And I hope they will pay off, but it's hard to make it pay off at this point in the MCU.
I think many people can figure that out, they just like a bit of consistency, especially when Marvel have been trying to have a “brand synergy” for the past decade.
Does that mean all bootleg toys, action figures and other merch is just depicting a different universe in the MCU multiverse?
thats not stopping the MCU from calling it 616
@@saphcal Maybe it is from their point of view, but it's Earth-199999 from the point of view of many other realities. And that's honestly ok because that's how relativity works, points of view.
I agree. The biggest problem is that people have projects they want to push and will use any "lipstick" like comic books or video games to market it as it has mass appeal.
Some of the writers or producers are not even fans of the genre.
Some of the reasons why Marvel changed Ms Marvel from Inhuman to Mutant is:
- Mutants are more well-known
- Kevin Feige didn't want to use Inhumans, because a rival in Marvel media used the Inhumans unsuccessfully and he doesn't want to acknowledge its existence.
- Gives the MCU creatives more flexibility in their minds.
You make a decent point, but I don't see anyone complaining about the Guardians of the Galaxy from the comics to the movies. Star lord and drax may as well be completely different characters in the movie (at least before the movie released, I know they've become more like their movie counterparts since then and that kind of annoys me).
The MCU isn't a direct adaptation of the Earth-616 comic continuity hence it has the freedom to make creative liberties. You'd have to be obtuse to not recognise that SOOOO many changes have been made regarding many other aspects of characters to fit the MCU. Abilities and powers are not immune to this so long as they aren't a huge delineation for highly established characters.
Boring explanation
@@user-yq9im9dk9z Most truths are boring and uneventful.
Ms. Marvel poweres being changed I think is because of two things.
1. To differentiate her powers from Mr. Fantastic for the eventual Fantastic Four movie.
2. To avoid weird uncannyvalley with her stretchy powers.
I'm a huge Ms. Marvel Comic and Movie/series fan. I like both powers. The hardlight powers do kinda win for me a bit with her creating light platforms to use.
Easiest answer for Ms. Marvel - Visual effects, then write around it. As for Echo, can't say but training choreography for her to mimic probably puts a dent in shooting time and so on. Also expediency better to get these things out as quick as possible with whatever flimsy pretext allows the fans that don't read comics to beam it into their eyeballs. It could be all that together that gels into changing powers for "reasons".
Because they only care about the representation they could bring with the character. they don't care about the actual character.
Look at the interviews and see what they're actually passionate about, and compare it to someone that actually cares like Seth MacFarlane for Ted
Echo was so boring. What a struggle watch.
I love that you coming with the smoke 😂😂
I think they do not care about comics they see them as a brand they can use but not as an art form, saying powers don't matter to superheroes is like saying lore does not matter in Tolkien or horror in the exorcist... they don't like the source material and want to do their own "genius/deep/mature" thing
Benny is probably like : noooo don't state anti woke opinions. There's no such thing as woke in comics
While possibly having similar opinions as well
Echo was created by David Mack and Joe Quesada, not Soule. It was a follow up to the Kevin Smith run, if memory serves. Bendis later used her as Ronin in his Avengers, but someone forgot to tell the artist that the masked mystery figure was supposed to be a woman.
Benny with full beard and man bun. 😎👌🏽 I remember when this channel first popped off. Oh how far this channel has come. Much love
hi Benny, hope ur having a good week!