The Chinese Jian Sword, Compared to European swords - My First Impressions
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- The Chinese Jian Sword Compared to European Swords - My First Impressions
My first impressions of the jian as a sword type, rather than specifically this replica. This example is from Dynasty Forge:
www.dynastyforge.com/swords/c... 
Развлечения
You are correct in the assumption that the Jian is a side-sword, but beyond the early medieval period it wasn't used much as a main battle weapon. The most common Chinese main battle weapons were, like in medieval Europe, spears and various types of pole-arms, a Jian would be carried mostly by officers / nobility as a secondary weapon in war and as a status symbol in civilian life. It's this civilian use that preserved the shape and design for so long and later the Jian came to be regarded more as a civilian self-defense implement, while the Dao and its longer variants kept the status of mainly military weapons.
Regarding use I'm not aware of any manuals dating back to the 7th century, so it's anybody's guess, I'd say your assumption that it was employed in conjunction with shields is quite reasonable. Late medieval an more recent use as a civilian side sword is what current kungfu sword practice represents, that's not fictional or unrealistic, in such circumstances shields and armor were uncommon and so the techniques are more focused on agility. Generally speaking cuts are meant to be just debilitating and thrusts are regarded as the "kill strikes", so you are right about it being a more thrust-oriented design.
Most kungfu movies are plagued by a number of silly mistakes: they're often using thin practice swords (which are far lighter and more flexible than the real ones), they greatly exaggerate some techniques to the point when they become stupidly unrealistic and they often choreograph spectacular moves that have little to do with the real techniques just to make the fight more dramatic. Actual Jian techniques are swift, tight and precise, not the kind of wide spinning "dance" portrayed in such movies.
Also worth mentioning is the fact that modern sports demonstrations are not exactly accurate to the fighting techniques they're supposed to represent, they emphasize some of the more spectacular (and risky) techniques and skip the "boring" (but useful) short parries and quick attacks.
I think they were also used similar to a cruciform sword around the Ming but later were used on their own. I heard the floppy design were from training swords and swords used in Chinese Opera. I have seen jian with crossguards and even a mural with a Chinese demon king (a god of the underworld) from the Ming fingering a crossguard jian like European style sword salute.
Also note that Chinese folding metal blades were of poorer quality than Japanese blade (its why they were traded and copied a lot in China), and thus the point of the Jian often broke and had to be rounded to prevent further damage from grinding it back to a point (keep in mind that the center of the blade is soft iron,only the edge are very hard). Also, a lot of Jian were very wide and were more cutters than stabbing weapons. I can understand why this miss conception was born, but I hate when people randomly call it, "the Chinese equivalent of a rapier"
@@theghosthero6173 Citation required
The GhostHero Bull. China had early access to high quality iron mines and blast furnaces, ie they had the ability to make durable monosteel blades well before the Japanese.
Vladimir Efimov Jians or Jian swordsmanship tending to be thrust centric depends on the individual sword or swordsmanship. In particular considering the surviving antique examples from the Qing era (usually militia ones) that have blade designs that without a doubt indicate very powerful cutting ability.
Styles which wield the Jian mainly with two hands (or sometimes outright specifically wield large longswords) like Chao Xian Shi Fa and certain Tongbei/Pigua/Mantis/Xingyiquan lineages also indicate a rather cut-centric paradigm.
Actually, no one would wield a sword as a primary weapon in a battle. Ancient Chinese warriors are experts in ranged weapons and spears.
The Jian(let's just say sword cause 剑 just means sword in Chinese) mostly is a symbol for the gentleman, which presents virtue. They might duel with these swords cause you must be agile and precise to parry and thrust so it is pretty good for a martial show(although it could be really brutal). And the weapon was designed to make users easily change their posture by using wrist, so the move always looks like dancing.
For poor people and police back in that time, they usually use 刀(basically cleaver, also means knives in the same symbol) cause you do not have to receive a huge amount of training to use 刀, just smash that piece of steel on your foe. In comparison, amateurs with swords always cut themselves when doing some tricks.
Thank you for this video, love from China!
"Ancient Chinese warriors are experts in ranged weapons and spears." -- Actually, almost universally, spears are the main weapons in most culture. Easy to make, cheap to make, easy to train.... There were several demonstration. Most people who are barely trained with a spear can even beat people who trained in swords for years.
but of course they were still side arms so they probably were used semi often in battle though, right? i mean, people dont bring things they arent going to use a little, even if its only 10% of the time
Chinese Jian was used as main weapon in bronze age and the main way of attack was stab not cut because bronze are soft. During that time the nobles are the majority of military and they have the resource to make a good sword. You can check the Sword of Goujian (made around 510 BC) which represent the golden age of swords in ancient China.
In iron age the war in China became more cruel and larger in scale. Nobles became commander who no longer fight in the front line and large amount trained common people as solders don't have the money to make good weapons. Government needs weapons cheap, easy to made in bulk and easy to maintain. Dao (Chinese single blade sword) and spears made in cast iron has been approved most suitable during the war with nomadic people in Han Dynasty which cause Jian lost its position in military. Actually spears was the most used weapon in military in China.
Jian as a tradition still been used as ceremony tools in nobles but became more and more gorgeous and lighter but not actually suitable real war anymore. Out of the military there are still battle skills left from ancient time using Jian have been passed down to recent days which we can see from Kong-Fu movies. But those movie are mostly on one to one fight, not large scale war.
In Europe and Japan because of the type and scale of war, nobles (knights and samurais) were still need to fight directly which made their swords can develop further as real weapon and they have the money and time to make a good weapon for themselves. Those swords are easier to keep to nowadays because they are around 2000 years newer than the time when Chinese made good quality swords as war weapons.
no culture as a whole used swords as the main weapon, except the romans sometimes.
a sword is just less effective than a polarm 99% of the time
My understanding of the Chinese jian is that at some point in time, likely around the Eastern Han dynasty, it was replaced by dao as the practical combat weapon, and became a status symbol and decorative item.
It was often romanticized in fiction probably due to it being loved by the educated elite; the scholars, poets, and writers. It was depicted as the weapon of choice for the more elegant characters (almost always the hero) while the dao, which was the practical weapon used by the actual soldiers, got depicted as the weapon of the brute.
This is something that may have been true for a period of time, but not the full picture. Jian were common militia weapons in the late Qing and early republican, and Dao were common among the Qing nobility
From what I've read during some periods it was certainly a civilian weapon, akin to a rapier or a smallsword. Might have been worn ceremonially as well, but there are certainly a lot of martial arts that focus on the Jian as a dueling weapon. "It wasn't used on the battlefield so it was mostly decorative/ceremonial" is a really oversimplified way of looking at things.
@@kidthorazine dueling was never really a thing in China. There may be some isolated instances, but outside fantasy novels, it was never really a part of the culture as it was in the west. So the jian was never really optimized for that.
The use of Jian in martial arts were less martial and more performance art. Again, there may have been some accomplished individuals who chose to use the jian for combat, but they were the exception rather than the rule. The Jian just hasn't been centre stage as the common combat weapon for a long time, so there wasn't enough demand to improve it as one. Instead, it became more of a small sword equivalent. (The gentlemen's weapon)
There are other theories, such as how Chinese jian martial arts do more parries than binds... but that seems to me more like an necessity than a choice... since dao has a disk guard and they are used for binds.
Yes, there might be more to the story, but I just wanted to explore the primary reason for jian's evolution (or lack there of) instead of shooting off in a tangent. :)
You are probably right. Here's a practical Chinese weapon: www.galerienicolasfournery.com/wp-content/uploads//2016/05/kangxi-hunt-chinese-porcelain-blue-1000x664.jpg
@@Sifuben Qing is a bit of a special case. Being the external invading culture. Their primary combat method of choice is the mounted archer whose sword is closer to the saber than the traditional dao or jian. They did absorb the han culture later on, but by than, firearms had started taking over the battlefield, so it was too late for the jian to receive any further development.
if it helps, there's a Chinese saying where the jian is a gentleman's/scholarly weapon, whereas the dao is the weapon of a general. iirc on the battle field the superior chopping power of the dao is preferred
I was about to type that, yep it was a class thing (From what I understand) with at least early more formal schools for the upper classes teaching sword (jain) over saber (dao) bit like 19th century courts vs military or earlier grunts. Also one might switch from court or city - jain to battlefield dao like rapier or hanger to cut and thrust or saber in the field. Er I think.
Yes, the jian is the gentleman of weapons, one of the four great weapons along with the dao, the general of weapons. The spear, the king of weapons. And the staff, the grandfather of weapons.
They say 100 days to learn Dao
10,000 days to learn the jian
Dao it is, then :P
Cornered Fox. Exactly. The ancient ones were even closer to Viking era swords. Broad, terrific cutters.
Carry a Jian=nobleman
Carry a Dao=soldier/outlaw
I found it on multiple readings that when a chinese feudal lord attend the court or any ceremony, he would not take his battle sword with him, but a ritual sword (i.e. a Jian all right, never a Dao), which looks much better for all the crazy decorations, wood carvings, metalworks, jewellery, tassels and so on.
This makes sense to me and when u spot a Jian that looks overly decorated (99% of them are btw), seems to me a sign for ritual purpose.
There are more plain Jian that were used throughout chinese history, and even though the Dao slowly replaced it sometime during the Han Dynasty (mostly because of cost), the Jian still continued to see military use all the way up to the Qing Dynasty. You are right that the overly decorated ones were mostly ceremonial, but you see ceremonial versions of plenty of practical weapons.
Yeah the overly decorated ones were for decoration purposes, ie ritual, wall or personal decoration in civil society, but there are also mass produced lower quality versions meant to "do the work" on the streets or battlefield.
Chinese weapons vocabulary:
劍 jian4 double edged swords
鐧 jian3 Chinese style stilleto
箭 jian4 arrows
艦 jian4 warships
尖 jian1 pointy
Also
剪 (jian3) = Shear
尖 (jian1) = Pointy
Weird cluster of related words here.
鐧 jian3 is a sword like blunt weapon, not like stilleto, there is no blade on it.
I've waited for this day. *Pent up excitement explodes* Would love a comparison of pole-arms. Japanese naginata and the Chinese pudao compared to European spears and pikes,etc.
YESS Games OMG YES!!!! THE PUDAO IS MY FAVORITE BLADED WEAPON OF ALL TIME
Pudao or zhanmadao is different to naginata, it is much shorter. There are also swords, called zhanmadao.
@@silafuyang8675 yeah I was asking for both of them to be compared to European polearms
it should be compared not to european spears and pikes as chin/japanese had those too, but it should be compared to european glaive which is basically the same weapon as naginata/pudao but it's from europe.
@@HeavensBladeTM that's a good point. Thanks. Matt should consider this
I think I should preface these comments by saying that I am a 40 year practitioner of Chinese martial arts. At the height of its evolution, the Jian was - despite its configuration (straight blade and double edge with a point) not specifically a thrusting weapon. Nor was it meant to be a blade on blade weapon.
Jian technique is characterized by large circular movements and subtle and numerous slicing cuts. Defensive movements are done by interception and redirection rather than parry and reposte.
This would’ve been very different than the technique of the Dao, or broadsword. There’s an old saying in Chinese martial arts that the Jian is like a phoenix flying aloft while the Dao is like a tiger slashing with its claws
11:55 now that would be an interesting topic for a video. I know next to nothing about Mongolian swords. Everything I do know comes from films , which we all know are completely historically accurate, 100%.
Pfft, obviously the Mongolians just rode around in circles shooting their bows until people gave up and died.
@@spyrofrost9158 horse archers?!
"Your ranks are fleeing my lord"
I have been trying to find illustrations or examples of mongolian swords online for years. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find verifiable Mongol blades? Mostly Ive found chinese swords that on one website are listed as Chinese and on another, the same exact picture of the sword, listed as Mongolian.
I realise there was a lot of overlap of cultures as the mongols spread the empire through other countries but is there a specific Mongol type? Any help is greatly appreciated.
@@SuperOtter13 ruclips.net/video/kyGgx0ogTrw/видео.html
pisaries.blog/2018/04/08/genghis-khan-part-two/
genghiskhan.fieldmuseum.org/ took me years to find all this
The similarity between this and long Celtic blades is pretty interesting
Both sword types emerged in the Brone age and were developed for the armour, materials and kit of the time
@@waylander7777 Different time periods, different materials, different contexts, different levels of armor, different swords, different uses.
In fact, there are different types of Chinese swords according to different periods. This kind of swords in the video is only from the Qing Dynasty.
This maybe folklore: this dual sided straight blade is more of a “surgical” weapon by refined users and scholars. The tip 1/3 should be sharp for slicing and thrusting. The mid 3rd is dull for parrying work. The lowest 3rd to the hand guard is blunt for direct blocking and other abuse that would destroy a sharp edge. Also, the blunt part can be used to smack an enemy instead of making them bleed out of their major vein. You will never let the razor sharp front 3rd to parry nor block any strike if you can help it.
The guard and the length of blade is northern Chinese. Wider open space dictate longer reach of northern environment. The shorter blades are favoured in the south where there’s more city and closed space. The guard is northern, it’s “swept forward” allow for more “trapping” or “control delay trap” techniques. Your example is one of the less pronounced “forward swept” guard I’ve seen. The southern guard is swept back, allowing the user to parry or slip pass weapons and get close to the opponent.
Again, the above could be romanticised folklore or reality. It could be “modern” (1800s) reality after +500y of martial art evolution and thousands of years of military evolution.
The way I learned to use them is that the distal 1/3rd should be very sharp for cutting and thrusting. The proximal third mildly sharp to dull for deflecting. The middle was user preference.
The techniques involved emphasis on good footwork and nicking the hands and forearms quickly in an attempt to disarm the opponent at a distance. Then the piercing came in, targeting the torso or thighs.
There are some strong power techniques, but the design of the blade and the way I learned to hold it lend themselves well to more speed techniques. Quick flicks and darting pokes. Power and speed being generated by the legs and waist, just like the empty hand methods. I was taught that the sword is an "extension of the mind." So the techniques should flow from one to the next as quickly as our thoughts do. Not committing until the kill strike, if at all.
I think the guards are thin because some schools advocate for placing the index finger on the spine for added control. I don't do this. I wasn't trained to do this. I think this is a stupid risk.
There are guard styles that have up curved guards which are more practical than the style featured here.
Another thing is that some schools of jian play advocate for keeping the scabbard in the left hand during fighting. This would be used to deflect or attack as need be. This may be a throw back to the shield use you suggest, which does make sense. Though I've only ever seen a dao used with a shield, never a jian.
I do appreciate that you chose one with a more realistic spine. Many of today's wushu jian's are flimsy pieces of junk. I'd rather take a flyswatter into a fight than one of them. But the one you have looks to be good quality.
accurate.
Jian is not really a warfare weapon after HAN DYNASTY because Dao(single edge chinese sword) take over its places
.It is more likely a declaration, civilian self defense weapon(especially TAOIST MONK) and a symbol of statues.
The way of using the jian is quite different to dao and European sword, Redirect and Parry with the first 2/3 of the blade, Intercepting wrist and forearm, using the advantage of relatively agile blade to dodge opponents attack and counter with some wired angle.... Those are the major tactic using this sword in my knowledge. There are much to talk about jian-fa(way of using jian) if you are interest you can look for 三才劍, 武當對劍, 青萍劍, 螳螂劍....you can really find some interesting stuff and the usage of jian there.
Jian is the 百器之君, 短兵器之王 (weapon of a gentleman, king of short weapon) there are much to talk about, my knowledge is limited and my English too. I will try to answer the question all you have within my ability and i hope there will be a better guy to share and let me learn more.
Many soldiers still used the Jian after the Han. It just wasn't as common. Especially after Japanese pirates burned many if the manuals during the Tang. But they were still used for fighting.
The chinese jian fa is kind of impractical. It emphasise more on flourishes than actual combat. Some of the moves in the manuals are laughable, it teaches the wielder to do splits and fight standing on 1 leg.
TentaclePentacle What you described are made up bull shit that have more in common with circus dancing that actual martial arts. Anything called “Wushu” is just that, made up bullshit originated from early 20th century street performance. Real sword manuals from 16th century don’t teach people backflip 360 degree no scope lightsaber dance.
Most manual scripts for swords are just that dancing. Real sword fighting techniques are really rare. There is however a lot of spear fighting manual scripts that seem to be really practical.
TentaclePentacle Yep, most are trash. Here is a good one: imgur.com/gallery/11XKntp.
And here is the dancing one: imgur.com/H0GQnJx.
I LOVE the jian. It's easily one of my favorite types of sword from a purely aesthetic standpoint. They're beautiful weapons, and they're absolutely gorgeous in motion when employed in traditional Chinese martial arts. I feel like the jian doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves in pop culture outside of wuxia films, at least compared to something like the katana.
Just as a side note: I don't hate the katana either. I've noticed there's a bit of a pushback against the katana among sword enthusiasts in response to it's excessive popularity, but I think katana can be quite beautiful as well. I just feel like they're a bit over-appreciated compared to something like the jian or the Korean hwando (itself rather similar to the katana.)
Also, in general, swords are way over appreciated compared to the true kings of the battlefield: polearms.
[In cantonese] "Hmph! The exquisite art of the Samurai sword? Don't make me laugh! Your so-called exquisite art is only fit for Japanese fatheads!"
I really appreciate that this video was made. I never expected a video on the Jian since it was not a type of sword Matt had expertise in, but that being the case, it was a fair and insightful look.
Yes! Been really looking forward to you covering the jian
the floppy TV swords are, used historically in chinese operas for the purposes of:
1. the sound. it's like how they use a sheet of steel in operas of other regions to produce a thunderous noise. makes it sound powerful and intimidating and flashy.
2. the flashiness. as it bends and flops around, it takes up a bigger area and becomes harder for the audience to follow, which shows off how "skilled" the wielder is.
so tv drama these days just maintained that same old tradition.
that's not necessarily a researched fact, but more of what I gather from people who do operas and historical drama
There's some practical purpose for the thin "floppy" swords as training weapons, too. If the technique is done well, they won't flop around as much; if they do, it's a sign of bad or unrefined technique and helps identify areas of improvement.
The concept was briefly touched upon in the movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", when Li Mu Bai is offering (for the umpteenth time) to teach the uppity young girl, Jen. The Green Destiny is a quite flexible ("floppy") sword, and Mu Bai talks about "hold[ing] it in stillness" (which if you pay attention, throughout the whole movie Jen NEVER holds it without it wobbling at least a bit; this scene was no exception). Yes, I know movies are never 100% accurate, but that concept at least is rooted in reality.
Excellent video! Prior to beginning my HEMA training, I spent a couple of years studying Shaolin Kung Fu. During that time, received some instruction in the use of the jian. It is one of my favorite sword types.
The spatulate thrusting tip allows for thrusts that create large entry and exit wounds. This concept, and the method of thrusting used to achieve these wounds, were emphasized in the training that I received.
I have a Shenlong jian from Longship Armoury that I have done a little cutting with. It cuts very well. I'll do some more cutting with it and write a review in the next few weeks. I'm looking forward to your review of this Dynasty Forge sword :-)
Jack Chen, Swordsage, and Scott Rodell should be able to tell you more about the history of the jian and how it was used. When dealing with something you're not familiar with, it's always good to consult multiple people who have some knowledge about it.
thx you Scholagladitoria.. i been wanted to know more about my heritage. there are very little english speaking youtuber whom done work on chinese arms. and its a great timing too.. on time with the Chinese Lunar New Year.. bravo
Awesome! I've always wanted to hear your thoughts on the jian!
I'm learning Chinese sword fighting. The jian is meant to make small cuts to incapacitate the opponent. Cuts to the arteries, nerves and the tendons are quite easy. Long cuts are also common, but in my experience chopping a limb of is near impossible. Punctures are in a lot of techniques as well.
I have a couple of jians in my collection. The training swords are very well balanced, the cheap pattern welded blades from China are beautiful but handle like heavy metal bars. If yours is any good, I will check it out.
The Chinese swordsman in the thumbnail is Chen Wei Ming, he was an inner door disciple of Yang Cheng Fu.
As you said,there is no such thing as a taiji sword only jian and dao.
Most antique jian I have handled have been poorly made/balanced 19th century jians like yourself (and I never had the big bucks for high status jians) however I have owned high quality repo's of antique high quality jians (such as those custom made by Garret Chans Jin shi forge ) and they have been fast nimble excellent cutters and thrusters.
Dao were often used with Shields however the civilian jian was not. Military tended to use dao or much heavier jian.
This Jian looks really puny compared to other swords. I am curious to see what the heavier Jian looks like.
@@Je_suis_Jefe military jian were wider and heavier than the civilian jian however don't underestimate the civilian jian,wielded by a skilled swordsman it is as deadly as any other sword. As I said-quick nimble excellent cutter (remember it was not used against armour ), it's a bloody good sword in my opinion.
@@emptyemptiness8372 As far as I know there was later (but still pre-18th c.) jian dubbed shuangshiou jian (forgive me if I butchered that) that was long enough to permit dedicated two-handed use
Are there any high-quality yet affordable Chinese swords? And from what country would they come from?
BTW two handed Jian also exist and renaissance manuel of their use look almost identical to European longsword Renaissance manuel
To my knowledge, the Jians did develop in parallel with the Spatha and Gladius with similar development functions and ideas.
But at some point, towards the end of the Han Dynasty during the Three Kingdom periods, the Jian probably fell out of favour with the scarcity of iron and the ready availability of wood made more economic sense to craft more Jis, Ges and Qiangs.
By the Tang Dynasty, the Jian probably started to look more and more like the Jian we see today. Daos were more favoured by that period with the shield-jian combination being superseded with more specialized Dao or Polearms, with cavalry action being more prominent in those periods rather than heavy infantry. The Jian on the other hand, became more of a civilian oriented side arm weapon much like the backsword and the smallsword rather than a primary battlefield weapon, yet another parallel that you pointed out.
One thing to point out that is probably something you wouldn't be familiar with is how the Jian is commonly used. While the jian may have the capability to get through lamellar weapons as it would have been mostly used for duels or fighting unarmoured opponents in civilian settings. You're correct about Fantasy Wuxia movies, which seem to use the Jian for cutting and thrusting a lot in ways that wouldn't be used.
The Jianfa is more oriented to winding and binding, thrusting, and slicing rather than cutting. Generally speaking, what we see in those lovely old Taichi movements would be translated to parry, wind, thrust, and then slicing the opponent (usually on their sword arm) as you withdraw, mostly to disarm. Much of the Jian techniques I have seem mostly oriented to attacking the opponent's swordarm rather than to actually attempt to kill, which is in line with growing Neo-Confucian influence in the later Dynasties and the rise of the Jian as a "Gentleman's (Junzi's) Weapon"
I think that the changes in jian techniques probably had more to do with it as a martial arts weapons (for sport essentially) and less of a weapon for war or self defense.
Also fighting a lot of enemies who ride on horseback means you put more focus on use of polearms than swords.
Agree about the comment on jianfa, the attacks tend to go not only for the sword arm/hand, but also the forward leg
Dueling and Warfare are extremely different.
Our modern Tai Chi Jian Fa has it's basis in historical sword forms that has been passed down for hundreds of years.
There are still masters around that know the functions of the movement we see performed by old people in the park.
In many ways, the rote learning of the Tai Ji Jian movement over the generations has preserved in movement a manuscript of stances and movement that we can use to reconstruct historical jianfa.
Love all your videos and Ive looked forward to this one. So..a couple things..this is a weapon I learned in a kung fu lineage that as of late 40-50s was still fighting with it in Taiwan. ( see Robert W Smith- Chinese boxing masters and methods for corroboration of what my sifu said) that being the case our work revolved around drills. Two man drills of a pre-arranged nature, partner drills, free sparring w minimal gear using blunt or wooden swords and test cutting. They were an ex military family, so much of what was taught was being used in and before the second world war. I have recently started studying the European side sword and find many similarities. One unusual thing they did regards the hilt / guard. My teacher taught that the guard was optimized for trading hands..He was very skilled at initiating or inviting a cut- counter stroking and then trading hands and stepping into your empty unguarded space
He could pull it off all the time I saw it more as an occasional trick or trap. I see some people coming out of the Wu tang ( not wu dang) lineage of Lui Yun Chioa and they trained body guards for the Emporer and presidents of Taiwan doing this same tech.
Great lecture as always.
Based on Chinese martial arts techniques that have been handed down over hundreds of years, I doubt that the Jian was used in combination with a shield very often, if ever. (Dagger was used with a woven bamboo shield). Also, as someone else said below, literary records show it was primarily carried as a sidearm by nobility and generals. Many of the martial techniques preserved in Jian forms are aimed at slicing or cutting the hand or arm of your sword wielding opponent, to make him lose his weapon. Of course there are thrusting techniques too if you want to finish him after you have disarmed him. Because it was carried by nobility and generals it often was probably used in the way dueling pistols were used later in Europe. In a duel disarming and injuring is sometimes better than killing. The primary sword used on the battlefield by soldiers was the Dao, or Chinese "big knife", or broadsword, which as a slashing and hacking weapon was easier and faster to teach to the masses of soldiers who were primarily conscripted peasant farmers. The intricate dueling technique and strategy associated with the Jian was considered too "refined" and to take too long to teach to be practical for the common soldiers. Zhang San Feng, a Taoist scholar, magistrate, martial artist and Dao Yin practitioner born during the Southern Song Dynasty, is often credited as being the originator of Tai Ji Quan (and White Crane, and a few other martial arts) and also the originator/developer of much of the Jian technique currently practiced in Tai Ji Jian and other "internal" styles that practice Jian forms. These forms are probably the best record of how the Jian was actually used, since they have been passed down from master to student, generation after generation.
Back around 1985 I was at a martial arts convention where I saw one of the craziest things involving sword. One of the demonstrations was a guy who did a form that he called "male/female sword" in which he used a jian in his left hand and a dao in his right. He moved his body in such a way that the left side was doing these graceful, delicate movements while his right side was doing strong, powerful, sweeping motions. It was amazing to see someone using their body in two different ways simultaneously.
jian are always double edged, any single edged blade can usually be called a dao, including cutlery knives
More specifically, dao literally means "knife", and the Chinese consider anything with just one primary edge to be a knife regardless of context. It's very specific.
@@RelativelyBest Kind of like how messers are big knifes.
I would be interested if anyone could verify (or dismiss) my training with Jian blades.
Quite a few years ago, I was told (by my non-Chinese instructors) that genuine ancient Jian blades had three sections that were sharpened and tempered quite differently. The base (1/3 closest to the hilt) was supposed to be relatively inflexible, blunt, and rigid. The middle third was intended to be stiff but sharp, and the third closest to the tip was to be very sharp and very flexible. This was to allow: blocking with the lower third, cutting/slashing with the middle third, and thrusting/flicking with the upper third.
In fact, the Tai Chi form that I learned had the "death of a thousand cuts" flavor to it, because the attacks were flicks and thrusts rather than big sweeping slashes. All of the large movements in the form were for blocking (with the lower part of the blade) not for attack, and all the attacks favored the "flick" of the upper third.
Anyone have any experience with this? I would genuinely like to compare notes and see if my understanding of the construction of the Jian blade is correct, or if this is historically or metallurgically nonsensical :-).
I have always been very skeptical of flexible blades.
Reason 1: flexible tip can't penetrate thick clothing at all, it just bends. Trust me, I tried. I can hardly imagine a jian, having many thrusting techniques, to have been purposefully designed that way.
2. How to have proper edge alignment with a wobbly blade? Seem like it would be extremely detrimental to the cut if the tip flopped about.
My understanding is that jian is a common nobles weapon before East Han. In ancient feudal China, nobles are expected to have six talents, including the art of bow and jian. After iron became popular in China, military start to replace jian with dao because it's better cutting edge.
Jian become rather like a badge which shows the authority of the owners, usually nobles and military NCOs. Sorry for my poor grammar 😥, nice video!
Matt, could you do a video on swords with thumbrings? Eastern sabers and Schiavona.
Thanks! Wonderful video and greetings from the colonies.
The particular example you have is more like a Ming dynasty or later age jian.
Historically after Tang dynasty (618-907AD), single handed jian really is more like a symbolic self-defence weapon, they can cut very well thanks to the blade thickness (POB) and stiffness(in fact not much worse than a katana), but as mentioned below, you are mostly correct they are more thust oriented...
Before Tang dynasty, double handed longsword (Han dynasty swords can be as long as 140cm total, blade length 110cm, with actual artifacts exists) did used as weapon in war, but still spear and polearms were the dominant weapons...
In regards to Jian in Ming dynasty, they usually refers to "Royal related" symbolic use, high ranking officers or Generals would carry Jian, but middle or lower ranking soldiers all using various saber or Messer etc...
Jian were very rare to use with shield (quite different from what has been expected), but Dao did often used with Shields...At the age of Ming Jian being used, Ming army already widely adopted to firearms, cannon, muskets..hand cannons etc.was formally issued...so Jian or swords really play very little in hand to hand combats, except among gangs and civilians usage....
On the other hand..the usage of Jian is quite different from Western culture...in chinese, they were trained to defend their sword holding hand in the same move of various offense and defense, ie they force you to defend instead of giving you chance to hit their hands, or sometimes it intended to give the hand to you as a fake target, when you attacks it, they move away the hand then hit your opening...
The hand protection issue in Chinese swordmanship is an interesting topic, which from origin mind set they are different from Europe systems..
One more fact..
In fact the Jian holding General or High ranking officers in the field.. their Jians will have more chance to be used to kill their own soliders as discipline punishment , or to commit suicide by cutting their own throat... instead of having sword sparring with their opponents...
Those Jian holding person in a Ming dynasty army would be so high ranking...if it was down to himself to be needed to fight hand to hand, it was equal as they already lost the battle with no chance of surviving......
It just a functional piece of symbolic clothing more like it's a weapon...
(Ming dynasty, civilians was not allowed to carry weapons, if you carry a weapon, you were already a outlaw)
That's one beautiful looking sword. Also a huge fan of the dao.
Great lecture on the Jian...
From a perspective of an American who has studied and practised Chinese pugilism for decades, let me offer that the jian as weapon was not widely considered a common soldier's arm. As in many places and times, swords like a well-made jian would be costly to create and, judging by the long and intricate practice forms that have survived, very difficult to employ against other war arms. Thus, the jian in existing martial disciplines is taught as a defensive sidearm where most techniques are directed at combat with other swords (although, off the top of my head, I can remember 1 or 2 techniques in each form devoted to, say, turning aside a spear thrust or cutting an enemy horse's legs).
Many Chinese war arts consider the proper use of the jian to be one of the highest martial virtues, this mainly because of the significant commitment to master the sword. I think that its difficulty of use is one reason that martial arts films (and many artists) employ combat-useless, spring steel props in performance. It's worth noting that the spear is often referred to as the 'Father' of weapons and that the jian is the 'Mother'.
One last observation, I don't recall any jian combat forms where a shield was used and, remarkably for a straight blade, there are as many slicing, cutting, and chopping techniques as there are thrusts.
Forgive me if any of these points have been previously made.
indeed. Taichi Jian is the most difficult form of the most difficult form. Adeptness at this is an indicator of Mastery.
Nice. A few things:
Generally, the preferred attacks for jian are thrusts, percussive cuts, and draw cuts aimed at places like the wrists, joints, tendons, basically weak spots on the human body where damage to them can incapacitate or immobilize.
In terms of usage, you can probably compare it to a rapier or arming sword. Something you can carry for self defense, but not exactly a battlefield weapon.
There are larger versions that have broader blades and longer handles, however, that are carried into battle by military officers as a backup weapon. The longer ones can be as long as a European longsword and wielded with two hands.
The one shown here is the one commonly carried by scholars, martial artists, and military officers in civilian settings. It's pretty light and convenient to carry for long periods of time compared to the broader, longer variations used during battle. The relative lightness also lends well to elaborate acrobatic manouvers which is why they are popular for wushu and kungfu demonstrations.
The jian is never taught to be used with a shield in modern day, btw, unlike the dao, and I am not aware of any school that taught how to use a jian in conjunction with a shield in the past.
It's also considered one of the more difficult weapons to master. Not as difficult as the "soft" weapons like, say, the chain whip, but it is considered more difficult than the dao. A person who has no idea how to use a weapon can do good damage just by chopping it around randomly, which will not work as well with a jian.
You are indeed correct sir. Taichi jian is an extension of the vortex movements of the body and the more adept the more flexible the blade can be. The culmination of a whole body vortex in the last 4 inches of a double edged point can achieve a flat cut - like a trough instead of a slice. It is designed to wrap around a stiff sword to attack behind the guard and cut the hand. No hand no fight.
@@kaialoha
It's one of the weapons I trained in.
Forms for that particular sword often make use of drawing cuts which would have been useful for cutting the lashings of some types of armour
The palm up then down back edge draw or hook cut is the primary forehand ascending cut. Like a roundhouse hook from a diagonal side step.
Thanks for the video!
The jian you are discussing a 16th to 19th century self defense weapon and fashion accessory. It was typically not used in conjunction with a shield. The compromise in cutting ability is indeed helpful in thrusting (usually against unarmoured opponents), as well as lightening the sword for more nimble parryies and little hacks to arms and legs.
As for comparisons to European swords, 18th and 19th century military swords seem similar to me to qing dynasty jians in proportions and function (and date).
Juan is indeed a cut and thrust blade. In general most cuts are to the wrist, hand, or the face. A successful cut can often provide a great entrance for a thrust. In general you strike the first gate(hands) and work your way in.
a vortexing snapping back edge draw cut ( palm down forehand, palm up backhand ) with the flexible blade wrapping around the blade is a very effective attack to the hand.
Hey alright, been hoping for more Chinese weapon coverage for a long time. The Jian is super interesting just from the research i have done. The comparison to Roman Spatha is even more interesting too, because Jian share allot of parallels. While the Spatha and Gladius are two different named swords in China "Jian" seems to encompass a huge range of swords over literally thousands of years. Early Jian even tended to have slightly wider and significantly shorter blades. Seemingly evolving in a interestingly similar way to the Roman Gladius and then Spatha. Most likely being used as a side arm and with shields like Matt pointed out. Then in later ages being a aristocratic sword, not a weapon of war. Almost never being used with a shield in that case, Instead being a status symbol, and a sword used in dueling / self defense.
This type if jian form the 19th and early 20 century are very similar to European smallsword, proportion and use. It is more a status symbol than a weapon itself. Yes, it is specialized thrusting sword, and if you look at Chinese sword manuals, you will find many rapier-like techniques. There is a type of late jian, Wudang jian, which is longer than the typical jian, as long as the rapier. Taiji sword (taichi sword) techniques are all about "binden-winden". The cuts, if any, are targeted mainly to the hand. There are 19 cen. jian with fullers, and if you look at museum examples 1000 years or more ago, you will see straight swords with fullers, the so called zhan jian (war sword). There is also shuang shou jian, or da zhan jian, which is almost the same as the European longsword. Dao became the predominant weapon used in the army at the time of Yuan and Ming dynasties. And no, late jian was not used with shields, it was a nobility weapon, a dueling weapon, a "weapon of honor", as it was called in Europe. Early jian from Han and Tang dynasties were used with shields.
Your opening statement is fundamentally untrue. Smallswords are very light dedicated thrusting weapons. Jian are not light cut and thrust weapons. The heavy spadroons with blades approaching Highland broadswords are a better analogue, or indeed as Matt says sideswords or even straight infantry sabres. The usage in the Republican era manuals is very much cut and thrust.
Interesting video. 40 years ago I was a student (kung fu). My teacher was a Chinese General's son, and extremely skilled and knowledgeable about all things Chinese martial arts. I have no idea how this was used long long time ago, but I was taught to use it as a cutting weapon. No hacking and some thrusting, but a lot of slicing spiral moves that would work in advance or retreat and attack from unexpected directions. Definitely not the thing to do against an armored opponent. I see that sort of style in a lot of Kung Fu movies, esp with women.
Brilliant to hear you talk, as ever. To note that there are shorter versions of the jian as early as the Bronze Age, with bronze swords lasting into the Han. I think that iron/steel swords appear as early as the Warring States and are dominant by the end of the Han and into the Three Kingdoms. Many have double fullers from the BA on. Most seem to have rather long handles to the hilts, even when the blade is quite short. Perhaps this was to improve balance and handling qualities? Some early jian have disc guards but I agree that these should probably not be focused on as I also think that these swords were usually used with shields. Also, in experimenting with BA European swords, namely type IV rapiers and, inevitably, Ewart Park leaf-blades, a punch style attack within the protection of the shield seems best and if you do have to oppose with the sword then to parry hilt first so that the attacking sword travels away from your hand toward your sword point. Since the remarkable cultural continuity in China from the BA onwards I consider that it is probable that there was a similar continuity in sword use regarding the jian. By the Qin the jian was an indicator of status and, as such, worn by 'scholars'. The origins of Tai Chi, at least as we know it now Jim, seems to date to the early 12th C. The jian seems to have increasingly been used in this martial art without a shield, retaining its relevance to status, whilst the dao seems to have become the main military side weapon, again usually used with a shield. This is my understanding. Hopefully if wrong someone out there will have the knowledge to correct. Thanks Matt, keep on keeping on.
Mick Skelly.
Having done some Tai Chi Jian form work, the moves are actually small moves with what can be interpreted as quite precision tip cutting, as though you’re aiming for cutting at arteries and hitting vital spots.
Primary targets are wrists and shoulder/arm area, with perhaps an attack on the knee. The goal is to attempt cut/severe the tendons in the wrist, and the deltoids/upper trapazoid muscles and tendons. The knee attack is essentially an attempt to hamstring your opponent. Thrusts were aimed at the solar plexus, or over the sternum (downward thrust) as a finishing move.
I love the look of the Jian, and curious to see if there a hema equivalent for Jian use. Something a little more grounded, and less fancy? Are there any good channels that highlight the practical use of a jian?
I haven’t studied many Chinese sword techniques during my kung fu studies, as there is a greater focus on staff, but what I have seen is that the Jian is typically used to make small precise cuts. A “Surgical” weapon, if that makes sense. Like instead of trying to make deep cuts, you’re trying to cut off bits of soft tissue, muscle, blood vessels, ect.
Thank you 4 talking about this weapon.
I would love to see an assessment of the Chinese ge - (the dagger axe pole arm). It has one of the most interesting and iconic designs of pole arms if its time.
Jian techniques practiced in Chinese martial arts today are a mix of fast thrusts, cuts, and circular parrys, that seem to be more in line with duelling than fighting an armoured opponent, probably a legacy of the early modern period. I'm a practitioner btw, but certainly not an expert.
Matt can i ask which club you belong to for hema in uk? i've never been to any and it is something i'm intreasted in taking up.
Hi there. There are some features about Jian's feature that I wanna share.
According to my experience, Jian usually has quite a distinct feature over medieval European swords is that it usually has a larger portion of its blade mass distributed in the front part. Or in other words, it has a different pattern in distal tapering. Maybe the pattern is more similar to those shown in Viking swords. The gradient of distal tapering is not big from guard to the "monouchi“-- Japanese term indicating the part of the blade that is usually served for striking; then after this very area, distal tapering runs quicker to balance the blade. Even in some case, when reaching close to the "monouchi” of Jian, the blade gets thicker to provide extra mass in the part.
In a simpler way to describe, Jian usually has more mass in the front. Point of balance might be closer to the tip compared to European ones but it does not happen in every case. However, this of cause increases the difficulty for fencers to control a Jian. However, with this kind of feature, Jian makes Chinese fencers able to execute techniques like blade-hitting with the front part of Jian more successfully. In kinds of Jian discipline, blade-hitting (with flat or edge around the "monouchi") serves as the most preferable way to block an incoming cut by displacing opponent's blade with momentum exchange between the two the weapons. And by this means, vulnerable Jian-holding hand could be kept away from opponent's blade.
As I believe the weapon design went parallel with fencers' techniques, narrower and thicker blade makes blade collision solid when executing the aforementioned technique of blade-hitting; a greater mass in front also serves in a similar means. Of course, a greater mass in front makes Jian more difficult to control, but it also increases the power of cutting. That's why Jian fencers of Kung-fu practisers would need to practice multiple ways of power generation to utilize such a weapon.
This is only some ideas from me and my friends; some might sound strange. Feel free to ask~
You need to be a taichi master to even wield a taichi jian, its a floppy as a noodle. My master was such. amazing.
Good video, there are not too many people on RUclips doing reviews on Chinese Weapons. The Jian was not used with a shield together because it is not a battled field weapon. Although a General could carry one just to show that he is high ranking... It is mostly used by a wealthy person, or an educated scholar who wants to travel from one village to an other,,, This jian would be a weapon for personal protection. Back then, you can be robbed by thieves outside of the village... And yes, you are right about its techniques of being a slashing and thrusting weapon...
I've always liked the Jian, it's a very pretty sword. I'm not normally a huge fan of Asian swords aesthetically, but this is a notable exception.
It's inaccurate to say a "Jian" is type of sword, because the word only refers to a "straight double edged" sword, there were some that had more in common with a variety of sword types even of greatsword length
Same applies to the Dao as you said that could be more sabre or falchion in shape but to the Chinese are considered to be "single edged" swords
What you have is a Song Dynasty or later Jian. Earlier Bronze Age and Iron Age Jians are broad and short. Basically all of this style of Jians are spring steel instruments. They are not stiff; they bend but don’t break.
The diamond section makes the blade stiff comparative to a flatter profile blade of the same width and length. Stiff mean hard to deform or bend, it dones't mean brittle.
Confucius served in the military as an archer and fought in many battles. After he retired, him and his students were well dressed and carried their swords wandering around most of China to preach their philosophy...
Sounds just like Muhammad
jk xD
Spital Helles Confucius philosophy is designed to serve the state, which includes violence.
Violence something we detest, but the necessity calmly understood, in China.
Affa Lee Yes, a true Confucian must know how to govern the people but also how to protect them.
With regards to shield (or buckler) use - if fighting someone using their sword in the opposite hand to yourself, does this create issues with respect to the line to your sword hand?
Those "fantasy like" weapon designs came from the traditional 京劇 and other opera-like stage actings. Those are basically props. So they were designed to be more exaggerated, colorful, and also not practical, because civilians were not allowed to carry actual battlefield weapons at the time.
I'm quite a fan of your channel and videos, very informative on European historical weapon and arms. with that said I think you might've got a couple of things wrong with regard to Jian, which is perfectly understandable since this isn't your area of expertise, and ofc you did mention these are just your impression, not research.
Based on what I understand as a Chinese national, practitioner of Chinese martial arts and a some what Chinese history buff, the Jian was not really used in pair with a shield, except really really long ago during the Spring Autumn period which is around 500 bc, the first form of Jian as far as historians know today, is a fairly short sword with min hand guard, in fact the hand guard was not meant to guard but rather something to push against when thrusting into a person, at that time, warfare were mostly done on chariots, short sword shield wielders are a form of death squad, limited in number, what they do is close the distance with shield against pole arm then stab someone to death.
During Warring state period, people started to fence one another, this is when the hand guard got a little bit bigger, but still nowhere nearly as big as found in EU cross guard. And these fencers do not wear armor or any form of protection, such record can be found in a chapter about swordsmen from a philosophy book written during that period called Zhuang Zi. General warfare at the time start to shift from chariot to riders, pole arm is still the main weapon of choice, but longer swords were used too.
Han dynasty is when single edged weapon was invented, the original Han big ring blade is as straight as a Jian but only sharp on the one side, these were really long compare to the normal Jian or Dao and is probably used by both hands. From this point onward, Dao has been the main side arm for military, while Jian is wielded by ppl in charge as a sign of authority, it is believed that Jian is imbued with the virtue of a Junzi, which is Chinese version of a honorable man. It became a symbol of authority, virtue, justice and all the good qualities believed to be found in a man. I believe swords were never paired with a shield since then, at least not on large scales, as to way the hand guard never improved I have no idea.
Now there are records of vegabond and rogue swordsmen through out Chinese history, dating back as far as Warring state, and these ppl never wore armor, and their approach to using a sword differ quite a bit from military methods, and none of them walked around with a shield. How they prevented their hand from getting cut is anyone's guess, but my point is as absurd as kung fu movies are, it is not wrong that Jian as well as Dao were used without armor, without shield, in a dueling situation, sometime even 1 vs many, and as such has been practiced this way which eventually became what we known as Chinese martial arts today.
Tbh the Jian was like a rapier in almost everyway. With the exception of the Jians used for war, those Jian blades were almost as wide as a Roman Gladius.
Da Sword Of Gork not really though. Chinese people didn’t seemed to have duelled as much in peaceful times. I know he said Jian was mostly carried by nobles but that’s not completely true. It was mostly carried by people who were either trying to pass or have already passed the national exam to become a government official. As in people who would never even think to fight let alone going around and challenging people to duels.
Yes you do become sort of like nobility once you’ve passed the exams and your title can be inherited by your chosen heir(with reduced level every generation so it’s better if they do the exams themselves instead). However, these nobles are taught to be as peaceful as possible. Their jobs are mostly desk bounded.
Bowman C. So quite unlike some European scientists that did in fact duel in their youth.
Depends on the timeframe. Warring States era jians were similar to Roman Gladius. Han Dynasty era jians were long and thin like high middle ages long swords. After the Han Dynasty/3K/4th cent. Jin Dynasty eras, the jian was no longer used as a common battlefield weapon by the rank and file.
On the subject of asian swords, I hope Dynasty Forge send you their Thousand Sparrow tachi. I never see tachis, especially of that blade shape, discussed.
Heck, I wish they would send me all their swords LOL
I will say after using Jian sparring and studying forms that yes it is thrust oriented, but actually many techniques emphasize the tip cut for which the triangle tip is excellent for, esp. Deadly techniques involve tip cut/ thrust combos.
Ayyyyyyyyy! That Die Hard box set on the top shelf!
In the Vietnamese martial art tradition, which I suspect to be very much similar to that of the Chinese, the sword is not used for hacking or hack-cutting as demonstrated in the video. Instead, its narrow form and hilt-ward center of gravity allow the user to maneuver the edge to vulnerable places of the opponent's body: the wrists and ankles where the tendons can be sliced, the inside of the elbows and knees where arteries can be sliced, and even armpits and thighs. Whereas Western sword-fighting techniques aim for the head, neck, and torso to kill, Eastern techniques, as far as I am aware, aim to discapacitate or maim the opponent before going for the kill.
indeed. Jian is a Yin form - yielding, enveloping, bending, elusive, fast and deceptive.
Am I the only one here who is in total awe of the traditional Chinese sword forms or techniques from film. Never seen the equivalent. Clearly mastery of that shit took a lifetime.
From recollection, the Jian was considered the gentleman's sword and the Dao was more the foot soldier's sword. I recall seeing pictures of old Joan that were fatter and shorter than the more modern thin one though.
It was my impression that jians were similar to small swords in that they were designed to be light and easy to wear. Do you know if this is the case, or how they would have been worn/carried in general?
they would probably be most commonly seen worn by a traveling confucian scholar.
its largely depend on the time n places... as there are thousand of years in between, so its really hard to say... BUT, generally speaking, this is the kind of sword, upper class people carry inside the city as personal defense weapon as well as status symbol. (also generally speaking) Jian is consider a light arms. as most of it are lighter than most other type of sword. the thickness and lenght of Jian were also varied,..
The confusion comes from social conventions. Confucianism dictates that a gentleman should wear a sword, but confuscianism also distains the military, so the people who fought with Jian weren't gentleman (China even had a two tier nobility, civilian and military, with the military excluded from the highest reaches of society). As such there were light dress swords worn by gentleman, but these were costume rather than weapons per se .
If you have the chance to handle a Jian of the Ming Dynasty, you will find it heavy compared with western swords due to its PoB. I am somewhat experienced in longsword as I can do some stuff, but I always find it difficult to use a Jian of the Ming Dynasty.
Qing& Early Republic spring steel blades were for thrusting and slicing, not chopping. These blades were favored because they favor high skill-the ability to control the opponent's weappn, even using a lighter weapon to do so, then thrusting determinatively. The primary targets for the flexible modern blades are the tendons (wrist and ankle primarily) and the ultimate goal for thrusting is the abdomen, to the depth of a few inches on a person of normal weight to cut organs and produce internal bleeding, *avoiding contact with bone*. Impaling is to be avoided, and so the flex of these blades, before "popping" to pierce, removes the possibility of impaling, but the practitioner must have explosive hsingiyi striking power to do this. The flexible blades can also be inserted into the brain through the chin and soft palate. The ability to withdraw the sword quickly to make a parry is as important as the ability to insert the sword cleanly.
Great video as usual.
If you still have any interest in this style of content I would be excited and interested in a review of the fighting in the show "The Last Kingdom" I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject but I feel they do a decent job of battles
The Jian tip is an extension of your fingertip, hence the off hand being held in "secret sword shape" and its really about intelligent placement with speed and accuracy. Cuts happen at the tip as most techniques are circular and yes some thrusting .. but mostly circular- chi sao parry style to a circular edge tip cut placement.... Off topic but, currently in Bali and in contact with Traditional Keris Blacksmiths here let me know if you have interest ... such an intriguing sword due to its cultural significance ( it has two national holidays every year called Tumpek Landep)... Damascus style straight and wave pattern .. and each believed to contain a spirit... it would make a very interesting talk ... I just bought an antique silver Keris for my own collection..
Forgot to mention this. Series One Number One starts from the Shang Dynasty circa 1,600 BCE to 1,046 BCE. The first Dynasty in China with written records. Cheers, John
01:37 So much like today you can find a AR 15 rifle affordable for the common man for 700$, and you can also find much more expensive high quality military or competition graded rifles by 2000+ to 5000$...
Or a simple EDC pocket knife for 20$ and you can find high end ones for 600$
Love your channel! Matt, Ive been VERY obsessed with blackjacks and saps, even did a small blackjack from some leather, a CO2 airgun tube with lead molten in it, and a coil spring fused with the lead as a handle, all wrapped into a cylinder pouch like form, ...
On Object History's book about them, he mentioned that in Henry VI by Shakespeare, an armorer and his student fight with sandbags tied to a staff..
Care doing a vid about such weird weapons?
He also mentioned a lot about naval slungshots and coshs in his channel and book...
Cheers, and stay awesome, mate..
At least in regarding to Taiji (Tai chi), while mostly a cutting weapon, it absolutely was used for thrusting as well. Mainly to attack armored opponents at weak points.. shoulders, the neck, etc.
Do you have any thoughts on the tassel on the jian? Does it have a practical purpose or is it more of an artistic addition?
its a distraction like the red muff on a spear.
good thoughts. the forms in Tai chi and other Chinese martial arts that feature it as seem to present/display more thrusting action than the Dao forms. the Jian was also seen as the "sword of the Scholar" as it took substantially more time to learn than other weapons such as the Spear or the Dao.
Question Matt could you do a video on the bayonet charge was?
oh - I make jian. I am a blademsith. There were a lot of cuts that targeted hands, wrists, arms, etc. So, cutting was important but target selection was careful and there were not shields. Jian were for gentleman to protect themselves. They were a tad thicker than Viking-type blades but not a whole lot (1/16") thicker. I really dislike making the guards, but they are necessary and functional. Dao are more fun to make, but they both are great. I really don't think there were shields used often with them. Those who have taught me about them never mentioned shields, and actually told me that shields were used rarely (I asked). Sorry that I am not agreeing with you....
The jian's design and usage heavily depends on the timeperiod. During the Spring and Autumn to most of the Warring States era, the jians were broad and more similar to Roman gladius swords. During the end of the Warring States era to Han era, jians became thin and long, similar to narrower high middle ages swords. Skallagrim made a recent video with Swordsage regarding Han era jians. ruclips.net/video/ISDXZZWCRw4/видео.html
After the Han Dynasty/3K/4th cent. Jin Dynasty era, the jian no longer became a common weapon for the rank and file troops. Before and during these eras, the jian would have been a fairly common battlefield weapon for rank and file troops (though crossbows and polearms would be much more common).
Similarity due to function. Weightage of handle plus crossguard.
Less developed armor early days. Thus permitting sword versatility.
Less practical after armor evolution. More focused cleavage required for effect.
There is a Jian with a hilt much more similar to the viking era swords (thicker hand guard and pommel) that was meant to be used with more of a hammer grip. The one like you have here was often used with a grip having the fingers pointed up the blade to aid thrusting.
Nice Video, but I suspect the Jian’s lack of guard has more to do with it’s status as a “gentlemen’s” weapon and reserved for commanders and duelists. It had a reputation for being a “scholars” weapon and thus was worn on the side much like a dress sword. The need for comfort might explain a “narrow” guard but I’ve seen some examples of Ming jians’ with disc guards which were likely used as battlefield weapons. As for use with shields, I haven’t seen any such recorded use post antiquity. A side note, it is commonly thought that the katana was an evolution of the Tang Dynasty straight backed dao. The use of such swords died out after the mongol invasion
Well, both the katana and the dao are 刀...
Regarding the Jian being as you say "optimized for thrusting", well it depends on what you mean.
Yes they have sacrificed some cutting ability for thrusting ability as has literally any cut and thrust type weapon.
But traditional Qing period Jian can deliver powerful cuts that will sever limbs. Looking at traditional forms for both Jian and Dao I would say that Jian forms tend to have more thrusting than seen in Dao forms, but not by a large margin. Whether you are using a Jian or a Dao you are going to be doing more cutting than thrusting either way.
The idea that Jian are primarily thrusting weapons or comparison to things like the rapier are mistaken modern ideas stemming from a variety of factors.
Aside from that it is very rare to find any traditional (ie having come down from before the end of the Qing dynasty) form using the Jian paired with the shield.
In general various types of Dao were the most common pairing with the shield.
While Jian were very occasionally carried as a sidearm by some individuals on the battlefield in later periods according to station, training or preference, their use in the military began to decrease with the start of the first millenium AD and by it's end had basically disappeared in terms of it being issued to regular troops as a military weapon (with a few exceptions).
Obviously a Chinese army wielding jian swords would be annihilated if they ever faced an army wielding swords with detachable pommels.
Jian was more oftentimes used by officer and noble as their sidearm( Accessories）.
Since Han dynasty ( 202 BC-220 AD) to Qing dynasty （1644 AD - 1912 AD), revolving knife (环首刀）, has always been the weapon that majorly used by soldiers who actually fighting in first line, the Jian you hold in this video is meanly for accessories use. There are some Jian has been used in the battlefield, but those are long swords, some of the long sword’s blade can be 1.3m - 1.7m long, majorly used by elite soldiers to against cavalry.
Out side the battlefield, short Jian has been used by nobles and scholars as their self-defense weapon, so oftentimes they were made light and thin, easy to carry, and well-decorated.
Your great axe looks good with the top spike
I only know a tiny bit of tai chi that uses the jian. The focus seemed to be on the thrust, but with cuts used to transition between cuts and stances and blocks if that makes sense.
Super late comment, and also purely layman speculative. But from the limited amount of king Fu I studied in my youth, the sword forms using the jian all seemed to predominantly work towards stabbing as the main means of attack. Slashing happened, but was comparatively rare. Interesting video. Thanks for the insight and comparison.
Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼
General Jingwei's Shocksword.
I practice a taiji 32 and a chen 52 form. It seems when using the sword most of the attack motions are wrist flicks and slices targeting wrist, knee/thigh, groin, neck. Then some stabs and a few hacks. More hacking moves in chen but not alot, maybe because it a longer, bigger form. The majority of moves have a defensive element. Off hand is called secret sword and is supposedly hiding a small dagger. A sheild would be awesome. Going to check out the review, thx.
Hi, Matt. I love your videos and those of Lindybeige, Skallagrim, etc. etc. Just wondering why you said "so called Opium wars." I am a history fan and I currently live in China, so I should really know more about this sort of thing, but alas- I only know a little. Is there some discrepancy about the usual textbook telling of these wars and the actual facts?
Is that thread at the pommel of the sword intended as a strap to prevent losing the sword during battle?
It'd be nice to see you talk about Chinese polearms, they are so great in diversity. Maybe a comparison between English bills and the ge(戈) + spear head type Ji (戟).
I know a some of Tai Chi Chuan jian forms, and I can definitely tell you there are more than a few movements used for slicing with a jian.
In the movie, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", Li My Bai's "Sord of Destiny" is vey wide, thin and flexible. Was thin a real sword style or a romanticized version of a Chinese sword? Either way....what style is it representing....if any?
I watched until minute 14:28, out of a 17:35 long video. Was the blade lenght, oal weight or PoB mentioned anywhere thereafter? Thank you.
Can you do some videos on Korean swords? It’s hard to find anything good on them.
I would certainly expect merchants and travellers plying the Silk Road to carry news of weapons development and changes to both ends of the road and all points in between. Therefore occasional similarities between blade and weapon designs should be no surprise.
The Metropolitan Museum of art had an excellent exhibit on crusader era Jerusalem which featured a carving of a European Knight holding a Jian. So it wasn't just rumors of sword designs that were exchanged it was actual swords from time to time.