Robert, an excellent explanation of towing capacities. The current situation could at best be described as a dog's breakfast. Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain the situation. This video should be compulsory viewing by all who wish to tow a trailer. It would be useful to revert to the former simple rule - the laden weight of the trailer (TBC) must be LESS then the unladen weight (empty) of the vehicle. This would deter manufacturers from making outlandish claims about their vehicle's towing capability.
I agree Rob, and the new GCM rules do suggest that...but not enforce it. I would however use a different rule for 5th wheel where the load point is between the towcar axles.
We were lucky enough to buy a Zone RV 18.6, and fully loaded it is 3134kg. Just got a new V6 Ranger and it is great for towing, and uses half the fuel of my previous tow vehicle, a Y62..... Won't be needing either upgrade, but it will be beneficial to a lot of owners that are very borderline with their weights....... Another well explained video.....
I like this. The amount of overloaded cars getting around it's damn scary. Hopefully this will make things safer and bring a bit of awareness to the risks of dangerously loaded/overloaded vehicles
This won't do much for the issue you describe, as this whole process of upgrading will be too cost-prohibitive for most people. It's the old Aussie attitude of "She'll be right mate". Not realizing that if something happens, even if you are not at fault, your insurance may be null and void
No the cowboys will look at this report as open season fit more rediculuous carry on. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Just go buy a truck.
For the current model D-Max/BT-50, the Pedders GVM upgrade actually exceeds the axle rating of the manufacturer. Ive asked them to clarify how they are able to do this while maintaining warranty and ensuring longevity and all I got back was silence. Maybe something to look into Robert. Great video as always
@@MrThuggery Yep. The bushes on the Pedders shocks we put on at Coober Pedy had disappeared by the time we reached Mt Dare Via Oodnadatta. Not even 400ks on a BT-50. If you think that's big time punishment good for you.
The 68kg seems to be a legacy thing from when folk were not fat - 50 years ago - the 68 kg also is featured in the Australian Design rules as a standard person mass for the vehicle - - you will likely find 68kg per person is used for lift capacity rating in buildings
@@L2SFBC Thank you, Robert, for such a comprehensive series on this subject. At least we can all make a much more educated choice. I really should have opened with this...
They just can’t bring themselves to give larger vehicles that are used as RV towing vehicles, an exemption from truck class, rego and weight rules, hence this stupidity.
Hi Robert, regarding the QLD TMR LS16 code, are you able to advise how I can remain abreast of how this code is rolling out across all Australian states and territories? Thank you.
Going to a light truck sounds good but as far I know there is no crash safety data for them. putting kids in lap only seat belt in all the light ridged trucks is just as scary as a slightly overloaded Ute that has been designed to pass the ncap crash test with full curtain air bags.
Perhaps you should make a video covering the shift of responsibility from the vehicle manufacturer to the suppliers involved in the up rating of a vehicle’s GVM and GCM. New vehicle warranty will be adversely affected and Australian Consumer law will require that an up rated vehicle meets reasonable customer expectation for reliability, performance and durability. It needs to be clearly understood that the onus will be on the suppliers involved in the up rating.
Agreed. I mentioned that there are insurance/warranty implications. Carmakers can pretty much junk the entire driveline and chassis warranty if a GVM upgrade is applied.
I used to laugh about old Datsun 720's. Mine has 499kg payload capacity, but an identical one with red compliance plate has 1000kg payload. No difference apart from plate.
Great video Robert. I wonder if these rules would apply on any existing cars with certified GVM upgrades? My GVM was done recently after buying the 2nd hand vehicle (not OEM) and is more than 10% of original GVM (from 3350kg -> 4015kg). Considering its been registered as such with Vicroads they probably can't downgrade me. But the GVM reverts to factory when reselling the vehicle I believe.
Typically new legislation of this nature does not invalidate older modifications. If you have a post rego GVM upgrade and sell interstate then you will need to get a new GVM upgrade certificate for that state. If sold within the same state no problem.
It all ok for someone to upgrade your GCM but where does the manufacturer stand in regards to warranty on gearboxes etc. when you exceed manufacturers GCM?
Will GVM upgrades that have been certified be retrospectively recertified to reflect a revised GCM - specifically 200series Landcruiser. The same upgrade prepurchase 7200kg to post purchase 6850kg.
Hi Robert. RE: QCOP - Code LS16 (Feb 2023): Gross Combination Mass Re-rating Feb 2023. I am in Qld and have just bought a new American-made 2022 RAM 2500. Its OEM GVM has been reduced by the SSM (Walkinshaw), down to 4,490 so it can be driven in Australia without a truck license. Despite the cost ($10,000+) and my caution about aftermarket additions and modifications, I was considering having a GVM upgrade to 5,400 kg done in order to improve its Payload and Towing (Jayco Silverline Outback 21.65-LB upgraded ATM 3,700). I do hold a Medium Rigid Truck License. Under the recent LS16 can I apply to have the GVM and GCM increased in Australia to match those specified by the OEM in America? Regards Neill
I expect so, that seems to be exactly what the legislation has in mind, but you'd need to check with an authorised engineer. Good post, thanks. Let me know the result please.
Any issues with the trailer setup should be on the trailer manufacturer and the owner. the manufacturer shouldn't be selling a caravan that's excessively top heavy or has poor handling. And the owner should drive accordingly to the weight, tyres, suspension etc on the trailer. Because the bottom line is whatever you are towing requires adjustment to speed, cornering speed, braking distances to maintain a level of safety similar to the same vehicle without a trailer.
Hi Robert, I watched with interest your video on GVM, I have the latest Defender 110 D300 (5 seater) I want to get a GVM upgrade here in Queensland but am told only vehicles with a removable chassis can have a GVM upgrade, so my question to you is can I upgrade my GVM the reason I ask is the Defender v8 has a great GVM in the same vehicle and if it is an 8 seater the GVM is greater.
Aha excellent question. Is the L663 seperate chassis or not? It's a grey area on that vehicle. If the engineers say its isn't far as the legislation is concerned, then it's not. However...I would argue the re-rating based on OEM shouldn't apply for non-sep-chassis vehicles. I'll make that point to the people in the know. I think the Defender is an excellent example as it has a range of GVMs.
Thank you for this detailed explanation. I am thinking doing a post rego gvm upgrade on my new Prado 150- the up to 10% one… is it still going to be a simple affair of getting heavier spring and getting an engineer signed off. Thanks
Can you offer any advise on a 2010 NT pajero 3.2 diesel in regards to gvm? I only tow about 2T but have been over gvm by about 100kg. Its seems stupid I could have an extra 1000kg in tow and that's legal but being 100kg over gvm isn't. I know which I think is safer. I know a lot a people think pajero is a soccer mums car but they are very underrated and really are a fantastic family touring vehicle.
@@L2SFBC I watched the video interview with the QLD guy last night. He mentioned there isn't a GVM upgrade for my car due to chassis type so how can I get a GVM upgrade?
A law is useless unless it can be enforced. Current laws are not adequately enforced. You see examples on the road with tradies utes, caravan towing and lifted 4x4’s. Where are the resources to enforce the amended legislation. There is an opportunity for vehicle and trailer manufactures to upspec their product to meet market needs. I drive an Isuzu NPR truck for increased capacity, but there are challenges with insurance once you get into light truck around 4.5t gvm
If you want a good laugh... Car license vehicles used for deliveries in one jurisdiction have a free reign. 5 tonne payload on a 1 tonne car license truck. Or, 4 tonne in a 2 tonne van. Fun is, as it is car license, NHVR don't want to know it, and the local police have not got facility to weigh these vehicles in the metropolitan area! There is a weighbridge in one of the police command centres, but, a seasoned officer swears black and blue that there is not a weighbridge there. It has a timber deck, and is an old beam type. Told the officer to call the centre in question and ask the question of the staff there. He may be in for a rude shock!!! 15 sets of knife edges and bearings, inspection, adjustment of the corners, calibration and verify. Worst part would be the making up of the new knife edges and bearings, rest should only cost about $2,000 to have an old weighbridge up and running. First overload detected would pay for the work! After that, it would be clear profits for the government!!!
Hi, The new 2023 Amarok which is a sister vehicle to the FordcRanger has a GCM of 6500kg, Would that mean i could get it lifted by 100kg to 6500kg and who can do that.? Does it have to be SSM..?
Towing calculator: l2sfbc.com/towcalc Also: I will be interviewing TMR on this subject. Drop questions in the comments. Patreon supporters will be priortised. Follow me on Facebook: facebook.com/RobertPepperJourno/ Support me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/L2SFBC Buy my books: l2sfbc.com/where-to-buy/
No I said seperate-chassis vehicles, and gave some examples. The LC200 is seperate-chassis as is the 100, 300 and Y62 Patrol. Sorry about the confusion.
Seems like the government don't want American trucks on the road as currently they are the only vehicles to cope with the weights people are towing. With this legislation it will no doubt help the mid size ute market(biggest sellers on oz).
I grew up in a house with less bathrooms than current caravans...... more sensible vans would mean people wouldn't need to spend $50,000 upgrading GCM on top of the $150,000 vehicle to tow their $150,000 van.😁
The document is, as usual with governments, vague. It says "A SSM approval cannot be used for re-rating a vehicle's GCM in-service under this code. A complete design package must be included and documented for use under this code" and "Since the certification under the LS16 code is being provided on in-service vehicles, the condition of the vehicle is important when providing the certification. The design package must include instructions about what is to be inspected and the acceptance criteria to decide that the vehicle is in a safe and serviceable condition at the point of certification". I read that as you can't develop a new GCM design on an in-service vehicle, but once done, it can be applied to registered (in-service) vehicles. I'm going to collect a bunch of questions and see if TMR will answer them.
So they're introducing a new law that's only applicable to the older construction type of body on frame style vehicles, that have gone out of fashion already, due to the newer unibody styles that can easily be stronger, lighter, faster and cheaper to make. Particularly the giga-press style where the frame is injection molded in just 2~3 pieces. So despite this new law, and people demonstrating it's perfectly fine towing 2700kg with a Tesla model 3 (see ruclips.net/video/FX5lzqzZ2Do/видео.html ) or even a Nissan Leaf towing at least 5000kg here ruclips.net/video/RovwXstFgnE/видео.html , it will be illegal for anyone in Australia to do so, as the EV companies only put low numbers on their towing capacity plates (if they bother at all) because they suggest people do not tow heavy things due to the range reduction. That suggestion becomes law in Australia and this new law will not help, as none of the EVs are body on frame style that this law requires. This frustrates me no end, as I only want to tow 14km to the boat ramp with an 1100kg boat, but the cheapest EV in Australia allowed to do that is 370% more expensive than an EV I would buy otherwise, when just about any petrol car, even a Corolla, would be allowed to do so. My tinny isn't even that big, being in the bottom half of the size offerings of an aluminium quintrex runabout.
Sorry, the Leaf is NOT suitable for towing 5000kg. The fact it pulled 5000kg very slowly in a carpark is not relevant. Large strong men have done the same. The 3 js not rated for 2700kg and there may be good engineering reasons why; having enough power to pull a trailer is not, has never been and will never be the sole determinant of towing capability - that's one reason why there are low tow ratings. I wouldn't suggest it's range. The seperate-chassis design is not going out of fashion at all as it offers great flexibility in design, you can swap bodies on/off. I absolutely understand your frustration re towing; taking a boat to the local ramp is a perfect EV use case.
@@L2SFBC yes the leaf in that parking lot isn't a good test, and I'm not suggesting it should bump up it's rating to 5000kg, but it does make you wonder why it's rating is so much smaller. , The model 3 towing almost 6000lb on public roads and highways at speed, plus that slalom test course is pretty compelling evidence that it's capable of more than the 1000kg it is rated for. Plus many reasonably priced EVs in Australia have a 0kg rating, which is just nonsense. They could all tow a small box trailer with a dozen plastic chairs in it, a few blocks. As for the body on frame design, name one EV for sale for less than $100,000 AUD that has it.
I can't see many vehicles with a heavy trailer on the hitch getting up to 100kph in 30secs. It would use a heap of fuel to drive that way plus not be that good for the vehicle in anycase. Perhaps getting up to 100kph in 60secs might be more realistic. Or maybe we in Australia, are more patient drivers. A lot of drivers with caravans never get to 100kph! They barely make 90kph! Not sure if that good or bad!
It only needs to be done for the J2807 test, and of course, if the truck loses control of the trailer that'd count as a fail. Good to have a vehicle more capable than you'd need.
Hahaha, yes Robert, too true. Aways good to have something up your sleeve! Thanks for your input re the link to your other videos. I'll find time tomorrow.
98% of vehicles would fail this test on the road today…. Especially off the showroom floor! So I wonder how manufacturers test how much a vehicle can tow / carry? Maybe this might make the manufacturer actually put things like coolers, clutches & a proper engine tune on before they charge that over premium price they already charge…. Lol who am I kidding
You are missing the point here. They are already out there, they are just doing it unsafely and illegally. This is to make OT safer for everyone. Stop whinging Karen.
No degradation to the factory ESC is the gotcha. How in the heck would you prove this? So the pollies bow to the need but put in place a large roadblock. IF you do the GVM or GCM upgrade (at great cost) and have an accident - how will you prove to your insurance company the the factory ESC was not compromised.
If your vehicle has the GVM or GCM upgrade you will possibly void any insurance in the case of an accident even if you are NOT at fault. I can remember when I the suspension professionally lowered on one of my cars for better stability I had to get it engineer certified before my insurance would issue a policy so the same thing may apply here, as in, the upgrades would need to be independently certified.
Be careful tho it could put ya set up into heavy vehicle territory with the extra weight combination , it's 0 limit with alcohol one snith and ya done bloody risky
@@davidmilledge221 try looking it up, I just checked & its 0.05 up to 13.9t gvm in nsw. Wa is 0.05 up to 22.5t gvm Nt is 0.05 up to 15t gvm. Different states have different laws.
I’m offended. Robert just called myself and my wife midgets and kids. How disrespectful considering we’re not kids - in our 50s and we definitely are not midgets - 170cm plus.
I sincerely apologise for my choice of words. The reason was because I was appalled they would go that light; the average Australian male weight is 87kg, female 72kg and that's without accounting for clothes or personal items such as phones, wallets, handbags, even water bottles. So the 2 x 68kg occupant weight is way low and that's very disappointing to me. Again, I'm sorry.
I would expect it's a very outdated measure. The airline industry had a similar problem and there was even a case of a crash due to the carrier assuming average weights as per guidelines which were way to low. Over time, our size and weight has increased and standard measures need to keep pace. I'm sad that J2807's latest revision didn't include more representative weights, and I'd have liked to have seen the vehicle tow at GVM. I have analysed many vehicle weights and sometimes even a passenger on board means the vehicle cannot tow as advertised...so it does make a difference.
@@L2SFBC: Yes, have picked this up even with passenger vehicles. It is possible to get 5 people, 150 kg each, plus 4 lots of 30 kg luggage going to the airport. So, that is now 870 kg payload, and most sedans / wagons fail this epically!!! A question was asked of the passenger transport authority in my area. Stony silence!!! First thing I do now is to ask for the tare weight of the vehicle, ask what fuel load and spare tyres / other items are on the vehicle, then ask for the G.V.M. If I am not able to get 870 kg minimum between the two, goodbye!!! Space saver tyres are also an automatic rejection!!! The bus industry has a similar problem. Too many seats, too heavy people = overload!!! Another point is: Weight of the trailer shall not exceed the weight of the hauling unit. If car and trailer, applicable. Prime mover and trailer? No. Case in point: a 2 axle truck can have a G.V.M. of 15 tonne - 6 tonne on the steer axle, and 9 tonne on the 4 tyre single axle. It can then legally tow a tandem or tri-axle trailer. Legal mass of 8 tyre tandem is 16.5 tonne, and a 12 tyre tri-axle is 20 tonne. But, if the truck is towing a pig (caravan) type trailer, or a dog trailer, then the mass of the trailer is not to exceed the mass of the truck. But, please have a read of the legislation. As I suspect that it only applies to vehicles over 4.5 tonne G.V.M..
Good points - pig, dog and articulated trailers have three different sets of dynamics and so can have three sets of limits. I'm forever explaining this...l2sfbc.com/why-a-prime-mover-isnt-the-same-as-a-towcar-and-caravan/
you might want to correct that since the yanks typically weight rate until you either start to loose traction or bunny hop up a hill Dually as the yanks where the axle rear diff and suspension meets meets (laughable) weight limits, though has the pulling capacity yet doesn't have the stopping capcity.. with 4x4 caravan exceeding 3-4 tons at 23-25 foot these you may need to consider a 3 axle option for off road use.. when applying loads to a ute chassis you might have to address the tracking issues (rear axle replacement) stiffening the section to stop frame bend we aren't building van and 5th wheels out of marine ply and chip board any more and they coming more weight atr the lesser lengths meaning at 30-45 foot in length neding more axles on the ground to couteract the over all weight .. today unike yester year where a f250/350 you could tow 2-5 ton van looking at what it was made of you could off load its weight onto more axles at 23 foot cabin space In context my old 70's-80's 23 foot viscount shy of 2 ton something equivalent in a modern offroad van skirt 4 ton without modification with mods you migh add 1.5-2 ton extra gcm average 6.5 tons, 8 tons (with mods and max allowance of you license) your 500kg over on standard license 2ton excess weight.. you are looking at an f650 or higher 30+ footer.. you might be looking at 6x4/6x6/8x8/8x4 based tow vehicles to be compliant with towing regulation, noting every time carry capacity ina standard 4x4/6x6 platform you must resubmit the vehicle for certification when you your l9oad rating it isn't a free for all like the youtube 4x4 community makes it look like.. sorry buddy if you are going to use a land cruiser v8 diesel you ware at gvm of 2.5 ton your gcm is 6ton 3.5 ton in the caravan your bas axle/suspension tow hitch rating is 150kg not 350kg you will need at the to3 ball your suspension is rated to human capacity not towing capacity at 4ton you at 6.5 ton 5 .5 ton you ware at the limit of what you can legally on a car license you;re looking at lr/hr with a gcm greater than 8 ton nothing you will you out of stopping range of a cruiser you will looking at a dolly/dog using a pto gear in the rear axle to help control things greater than 4 ton in weight though would also consider what you tow with....
Could you resubmit your comment in English, please? It looks like you are trying to say something important, but honestly, I can't quite understand what it is.
@@Expedient_Mensch It wasn't a question it was the statement of how they set tow limits in the USA, the way testing is done TFL at some point visited as weight ratings testing lab.. If using a standard 60, 80 and 100 series land cruiser v8 5 seat model as the descriptive example vehicle has a 2.5 ton or 2,500 kg weight rating and 50-100kg weight rating off the hitch basically 6x4 box trailer full of garden waste vs 4,000 KG the average off road capable caravan, we no longer live 2 ton at 25 foot these days we are now 4 ton at the size which is a GCM of 6.5 tons if you were to add 4 tons to the vehicle you would be at 8 tons at 4.5 tons on the vehicle you will be a different license.. noting the more the caravan weighs the more suspension you will need to tow it.. 5th wheel haulage you may need a semi for haulage of it as you are likely above the capacity of the braking system to safely stop it at dead stop weights.. the way this has been explained is to the US definition of weight certification in which set a dangerous presidence on the road due to the testing methodologies the US uses in weight haulage certification ... which when put iin the hands of average joe citizen lands average joe in court for man slaughter for driving over weight and over the capacity of the tow vehicle top weight specifications should have caveat somae modification of suspension and diffs stenciled in read in red with warning in place DO NOT TOW OVER THIS WEIGHT.. IN THE MANUAL
@@jasonhowe1697 Ok, I see the problem; No punctuation! Makes it too difficult to understand what you are writing. Do everyone a favour and download a spelling/grammar checker, they're free.
@@Expedient_Mensch I also see the see issue of talking to people like a their a five year old and spouting bullshit and and not know what you're talking about though missing the point and creating a base example the only time you more weight in a cruiser is when you own 7 seat variant of the vehicle and that's hauling people only.. No modification for to excess weight for hauling vehicle a 4 ton van.. base weight of combined weight without mods applied to carry said weight is curb weight 6.5 ton base supported weight 50-100kg towing vs 400-800kg at the tow ball.. put that 4 ton van on that stock suspension yo will get a yellow or red sticker for your troubles as back in will be to the ground and be overweight at the suspension and tow ball..
you always upgrade the gvm upgrade to tow a great weight that has been done for decades Problems are when you come to explain this you put your foot in your mouth because you talk base weight of saf a cruiser which is typically 2,.5 for the 5 seat model you upgrade it to pull greater weight but you don't understand of combined mass you what it means to the license class you have...
@@L2SFBC your tow vehicle is roughly 2.5 ton when using a definition of a 4x4 land cruiser v8 turbo spec, base spec of included tow ball is with spec of 6x4 trailer towing at standard off show room floor with 100-150kg tow ball today we are seeing a weight typically in a 35 footer in the same space of a 25 footer you're adding 1.5 ton + to meet a 4ton + towing requirement which sees a gcm, 8.4-8.5 tons at road weight without mods applied you are at a gcm of 6.5 tons.. Noting you will be overweight on vehicle license you can be at 4.5-5 tons on the tow vehicle before towing that 4 ton 25 footer you have understand where your limits are before you start to talk about where modification lays before you talk about what the regulations state which have been known about since I was a kid in the 70's and 80's I think what has happened in Qld is likely trying police the back yard mechanic and the stupidity they create when no seeking a certification after they go and change the weight class without engineers approval so the vehicle compl.ioes with licensing laws.. there is legal ways to do things and there is illegal ways to do things, the amount of modders I have seen inside and outside of Qld tells me there might be a lot modders skirting red ticket and pit requirement for road rego soon
@@jasonhowe1697 So you are saying that at maxed out towing weights, anyone driving a newish Landcruiser ute style vehicle will need a light truck licence? That is reasonable. It is certainly something that for the most part, has been bypassed. I guess licencing is a different arm of govt so since weights and licencing are completely separate, they all go their own way on things, as usual. So again, the legislation will not be worth that much in the end. One hopes they get their acts together and come up with a well rounded set of legislation.
@@ClissaT I haven't covered utes in this definition yet because you might be over loaded due to engine spec Typically you can start from a 2.4 liter diesel spec with turbo in a hilux, to a v8 turbo 70 series `the issues are in those examples how far can you push an engine before in becomes a failure point that it can't be stopped whilst towing that 4 ton in utes pending on 2 or 4 door model you base weight can 1.5-2 ton without mods be at a gcm of 5-6.5 tons. however this vary because you might still have upgrade the base suspension package to cater for that 4 ton 25 footer off road camper, the legislation has always been there likely?? it just in its application and where it implies and/or applies to you for your setup you might skirt a GCM of a combined 8 tons on v8 models of ute you might have a death wish in anything of a lower spec engine, at 4 ton towing might be a rolling death trap when brakes give out on v8 turbo diesel I may be consider 6x4 lazy axle or 6x6 conversion (driven axle) for towing 4 tons or more looking at the vanning industry and the cases where 5th wheels are gracing our roads even more I would likely consider a prime mover as a suitable past 30 foot in length as you are likely out of specification of as sedan/ute motor to tow it.. looking at fords I would thing the f-550-f-750 may be a proper tow outside of this volvo, scania, kenworth and mack need apply as applicable tow vehicles
@L2SFBC what I'd rather is vehicles built for purpose. As you said it remains to be seen whether this legislation will be worth it or its just more bloody government wank.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, this implies that we will get a common upgrade law Australia wide, which would be a first, fingers crossed
That is what I'm told by the people who worked on it, yes - other states had input to the work.
Robert, an excellent explanation of towing capacities. The current situation could at best be described as a dog's breakfast.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain the situation.
This video should be compulsory viewing by all who wish to tow a trailer.
It would be useful to revert to the former simple rule - the laden weight of the trailer (TBC) must be LESS then the unladen weight (empty) of the vehicle.
This would deter manufacturers from making outlandish claims about their vehicle's towing capability.
I agree Rob, and the new GCM rules do suggest that...but not enforce it. I would however use a different rule for 5th wheel where the load point is between the towcar axles.
This is a ultimate CAN vs SHOULD decision.
Even upgraded, this is selldom a clever idea.
Unfortunately this doesn't upgrade the driver which is often the biggest problem.
U can never up grade stupid….
We were lucky enough to buy a Zone RV 18.6, and fully loaded it is 3134kg. Just got a new V6 Ranger and it is great for towing, and uses half the fuel of my previous tow vehicle, a Y62.....
Won't be needing either upgrade, but it will be beneficial to a lot of owners that are very borderline with their weights.......
Another well explained video.....
Thanks Darrin
I like this. The amount of overloaded cars getting around it's damn scary. Hopefully this will make things safer and bring a bit of awareness to the risks of dangerously loaded/overloaded vehicles
This won't do much for the issue you describe, as this whole process of upgrading will be too cost-prohibitive for most people. It's the old Aussie attitude of "She'll be right mate".
Not realizing that if something happens, even if you are not at fault, your insurance may be null and void
No the cowboys will look at this report as open season fit more rediculuous carry on. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Just go buy a truck.
For the current model D-Max/BT-50, the Pedders GVM upgrade actually exceeds the axle rating of the manufacturer. Ive asked them to clarify how they are able to do this while maintaining warranty and ensuring longevity and all I got back was silence.
Maybe something to look into Robert.
Great video as always
I've never rated Pedders, should they be re-rated......
@@einfelder8262 We've used Pedders for years on our 4x4, they are a quality product and can cop a punishment big time.
@@MrThuggery Yep. The bushes on the Pedders shocks we put on at Coober Pedy had disappeared by the time we reached Mt Dare Via Oodnadatta. Not even 400ks on a BT-50. If you think that's big time punishment good for you.
Whats the point, they overheat towing anyhow.
Many upgrades exceed the sum of the axles. Refer to my 4 types of GVM upgrade video
Interesting stuff. One can dream they'll design this kind of "testing" approach for other types of modifications rather than just outright bans.
Well explained
The 68kg seems to be a legacy thing from when folk were not fat - 50 years ago
- the 68 kg also is featured in the Australian Design rules as a standard person mass for the vehicle
- - you will likely find 68kg per person is used for lift capacity rating in buildings
Yes airlines now use average mass of 82kg for males and 68kg for females
I'm the lightest adult in my family at 67kg.
Quite simply, most people just don't understand, or actually care. If it hooks up, you tow it.
Yes..but for those that do, there's this.
@@L2SFBC Thank you, Robert, for such a comprehensive series on this subject. At least we can all make a much more educated choice. I really should have opened with this...
You're welcome and thanks 👍
They just can’t bring themselves to give larger vehicles that are used as RV towing vehicles, an exemption from truck class, rego and weight rules, hence this stupidity.
Hi Robert, regarding the QLD TMR LS16 code, are you able to advise how I can remain abreast of how this code is rolling out across all Australian states and territories? Thank you.
Keep watching here :-)
I've been told the QLD code has been adopted in NSW and Victoria, is this correct?@@L2SFBC
A 10% increase on my 2012 hilux without having to spend 6k and only choose from a handful of options in WA would be great.
Going to a light truck sounds good but as far I know there is no crash safety data for them. putting kids in lap only seat belt in all the light ridged trucks is just as scary as a slightly overloaded Ute that has been designed to pass the ncap crash test with full curtain air bags.
Correct safety is not as good as cars.
Perhaps you should make a video covering the shift of responsibility from the vehicle manufacturer to the suppliers involved in the up rating of a vehicle’s GVM and GCM. New vehicle warranty will be adversely affected and Australian Consumer law will require that an up rated vehicle meets reasonable customer expectation for reliability, performance and durability. It needs to be clearly understood that the onus will be on the suppliers involved in the up rating.
Agreed. I mentioned that there are insurance/warranty implications. Carmakers can pretty much junk the entire driveline and chassis warranty if a GVM upgrade is applied.
I used to laugh about old Datsun 720's. Mine has 499kg payload capacity, but an identical one with red compliance plate has 1000kg payload. No difference apart from plate.
Being allowed to increase GCM is crazy! Unless the vehicle is fitted with a lazy axle with brakes.
Great video Robert. I wonder if these rules would apply on any existing cars with certified GVM upgrades? My GVM was done recently after buying the 2nd hand vehicle (not OEM) and is more than 10% of original GVM (from 3350kg -> 4015kg). Considering its been registered as such with Vicroads they probably can't downgrade me. But the GVM reverts to factory when reselling the vehicle I believe.
Typically new legislation of this nature does not invalidate older modifications. If you have a post rego GVM upgrade and sell interstate then you will need to get a new GVM upgrade certificate for that state. If sold within the same state no problem.
On an amusing note, a stock GU diesel patrol would never meet those acceleration standards towing. I'll need to time it next chance I get.
Even without a trailer :-)
How does this effect drivers licence that incorporates weight limits
Sorry don't follow that?
How does a goose neck effect things in Australia?
It all ok for someone to upgrade your GCM but where does the manufacturer stand in regards to warranty on gearboxes etc. when you exceed manufacturers GCM?
No warranty
clear as mud
Will GVM upgrades that have been certified be retrospectively recertified to reflect a revised GCM - specifically 200series Landcruiser. The same upgrade prepurchase 7200kg to post purchase 6850kg.
Unclear at this time but expect not
Hi Robert. RE: QCOP - Code LS16 (Feb 2023): Gross Combination Mass Re-rating Feb 2023. I am in Qld and have just bought a new American-made 2022 RAM 2500. Its OEM GVM has been reduced by the SSM (Walkinshaw), down to 4,490 so it can be driven in Australia without a truck license. Despite the cost ($10,000+) and my caution about aftermarket additions and modifications, I was considering having a GVM upgrade to 5,400 kg done in order to improve its Payload and Towing (Jayco Silverline Outback 21.65-LB upgraded ATM 3,700). I do hold a Medium Rigid Truck License. Under the recent LS16 can I apply to have the GVM and GCM increased in Australia to match those specified by the OEM in America? Regards Neill
I expect so, that seems to be exactly what the legislation has in mind, but you'd need to check with an authorised engineer. Good post, thanks. Let me know the result please.
Any issues with the trailer setup should be on the trailer manufacturer and the owner. the manufacturer shouldn't be selling a caravan that's excessively top heavy or has poor handling. And the owner should drive accordingly to the weight, tyres, suspension etc on the trailer. Because the bottom line is whatever you are towing requires adjustment to speed, cornering speed, braking distances to maintain a level of safety similar to the same vehicle without a trailer.
I may have missed it but how does this compare to the old laws? Or is it just that Queensland is bringing in new laws that it didn't have before?
New ways to do GVM upgrades and new GCM laws. So amended and new. Watch the video :-)
@@L2SFBC I did watch it but like I say, I must have missed it.
Hi Robert, I watched with interest your video on GVM, I have the latest Defender 110 D300 (5 seater) I want to get a GVM upgrade here in Queensland but am told only vehicles with a removable chassis can have a GVM upgrade, so my question to you is can I upgrade my GVM the reason I ask is the Defender v8 has a great GVM in the same vehicle and if it is an 8 seater the GVM is greater.
Aha excellent question. Is the L663 seperate chassis or not? It's a grey area on that vehicle. If the engineers say its isn't far as the legislation is concerned, then it's not. However...I would argue the re-rating based on OEM shouldn't apply for non-sep-chassis vehicles. I'll make that point to the people in the know. I think the Defender is an excellent example as it has a range of GVMs.
@@L2SFBC Thanks Robert and the axels are strong than one of those Super Rams so why not
Thank you for this detailed explanation. I am thinking doing a post rego gvm upgrade on my new Prado 150- the up to 10% one… is it still going to be a simple affair of getting heavier spring and getting an engineer signed off. Thanks
Can't possibly say, insufficient detail - you'll need to engage an engineer and give them your specifics.
Be careful... toyota will throw your oem warranty in the bin
Can you offer any advise on a 2010 NT pajero 3.2 diesel in regards to gvm? I only tow about 2T but have been over gvm by about 100kg. Its seems stupid I could have an extra 1000kg in tow and that's legal but being 100kg over gvm isn't. I know which I think is safer. I know a lot a people think pajero is a soccer mums car but they are very underrated and really are a fantastic family touring vehicle.
Yes my advice is stay within GVM and if you can't, change your vehicle, upgrade the GVM, ot take lighter stuff. I agree Pajeros are underrated.
@@L2SFBC
I watched the video interview with the QLD guy last night. He mentioned there isn't a GVM upgrade for my car due to chassis type so how can I get a GVM upgrade?
I don't think you can easily but talk to an engineer accredited by your state.
A law is useless unless it can be enforced. Current laws are not adequately enforced. You see examples on the road with tradies utes, caravan towing and lifted 4x4’s. Where are the resources to enforce the amended legislation. There is an opportunity for vehicle and trailer manufactures to upspec their product to meet market needs. I drive an Isuzu NPR truck for increased capacity, but there are challenges with insurance once you get into light truck around 4.5t gvm
If you want a good laugh... Car license vehicles used for deliveries in one jurisdiction have a free reign. 5 tonne payload on a 1 tonne car license truck. Or, 4 tonne in a 2 tonne van. Fun is, as it is car license, NHVR don't want to know it, and the local police have not got facility to weigh these vehicles in the metropolitan area! There is a weighbridge in one of the police command centres, but, a seasoned officer swears black and blue that there is not a weighbridge there. It has a timber deck, and is an old beam type. Told the officer to call the centre in question and ask the question of the staff there. He may be in for a rude shock!!! 15 sets of knife edges and bearings, inspection, adjustment of the corners, calibration and verify. Worst part would be the making up of the new knife edges and bearings, rest should only cost about $2,000 to have an old weighbridge up and running. First overload detected would pay for the work! After that, it would be clear profits for the government!!!
Look at Defender Mods and Travels excellent analysis of axle failures. Then you are not going to approach, never mind 'upgrade' manufacturer's limits.
Hi, The new 2023 Amarok which is a sister vehicle to the FordcRanger has a GCM of 6500kg,
Would that mean i could get it lifted by 100kg to 6500kg and who can do that.? Does it have to be SSM..?
Good question! Will ask
@@L2SFBC did they answer this question?
Yes interview up soon
Towing calculator: l2sfbc.com/towcalc
Also: I will be interviewing TMR on this subject. Drop questions in the comments. Patreon supporters will be priortised.
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Wait. At the start of the video did you say only ute or ute based SUVs can be upgraded? So a LC200 can't get a GCM upgrade under these new laws?
No I said seperate-chassis vehicles, and gave some examples. The LC200 is seperate-chassis as is the 100, 300 and Y62 Patrol. Sorry about the confusion.
Be interesting to see how a standard dual cab would go in the J2807 test. It might not need much to pass.
I do wonder how it'd go. I would suggest that if every vehicle in Australia tried it with its max BTC then pass rate wouldn't be 100%.
What will the Australian equivalent be? Just sign it off, most testing will be ignored as it is with vehicle lifts.
2 x 68kg occupants... OK.. That's me and the dogs... What about the missus? She can't come fishing, apparently...
Seems like the government don't want American trucks on the road as currently they are the only vehicles to cope with the weights people are towing. With this legislation it will no doubt help the mid size ute market(biggest sellers on oz).
And another thing, I have been to your website to find the videos on the 4 types of GVM upgrade but I failed to find it/them.
Do you have the link?
ruclips.net/video/Ny1ry3Of7Hc/видео.html
@@L2SFBC Thanks a bunch for that.
Hi for some reason i cannot get onto your website can you please send me a Link
l2sfbc.com/
I grew up in a house with less bathrooms than current caravans...... more sensible vans would mean people wouldn't need to spend $50,000 upgrading GCM on top of the $150,000 vehicle to tow their $150,000 van.😁
Each to their own!
Jealous ?
@@tyzon00800 No. Stupid comment.
Lol often thought the same. Where do they get the money
Previous gcm upgrades were only allowed pre registration. Is this still the case?
The document is, as usual with governments, vague. It says "A SSM approval cannot be used for re-rating a vehicle's GCM in-service under this code. A complete design package must be included and documented for use under this code" and "Since the certification under the LS16 code is being provided on in-service vehicles, the
condition of the vehicle is important when providing the certification. The design package must
include instructions about what is to be inspected and the acceptance criteria to decide that the
vehicle is in a safe and serviceable condition at the point of certification". I read that as you can't develop a new GCM design on an in-service vehicle, but once done, it can be applied to registered (in-service) vehicles. I'm going to collect a bunch of questions and see if TMR will answer them.
@@L2SFBC Lovel's do a 79 series Single Cab GVM upgrade 3300 to 4200kg and a GCM from 6800 to 7200kg Post Rego.
So they're introducing a new law that's only applicable to the older construction type of body on frame style vehicles, that have gone out of fashion already, due to the newer unibody styles that can easily be stronger, lighter, faster and cheaper to make. Particularly the giga-press style where the frame is injection molded in just 2~3 pieces. So despite this new law, and people demonstrating it's perfectly fine towing 2700kg with a Tesla model 3 (see ruclips.net/video/FX5lzqzZ2Do/видео.html ) or even a Nissan Leaf towing at least 5000kg here ruclips.net/video/RovwXstFgnE/видео.html , it will be illegal for anyone in Australia to do so, as the EV companies only put low numbers on their towing capacity plates (if they bother at all) because they suggest people do not tow heavy things due to the range reduction. That suggestion becomes law in Australia and this new law will not help, as none of the EVs are body on frame style that this law requires. This frustrates me no end, as I only want to tow 14km to the boat ramp with an 1100kg boat, but the cheapest EV in Australia allowed to do that is 370% more expensive than an EV I would buy otherwise, when just about any petrol car, even a Corolla, would be allowed to do so. My tinny isn't even that big, being in the bottom half of the size offerings of an aluminium quintrex runabout.
Sorry, the Leaf is NOT suitable for towing 5000kg. The fact it pulled 5000kg very slowly in a carpark is not relevant. Large strong men have done the same. The 3 js not rated for 2700kg and there may be good engineering reasons why; having enough power to pull a trailer is not, has never been and will never be the sole determinant of towing capability - that's one reason why there are low tow ratings. I wouldn't suggest it's range.
The seperate-chassis design is not going out of fashion at all as it offers great flexibility in design, you can swap bodies on/off.
I absolutely understand your frustration re towing; taking a boat to the local ramp is a perfect EV use case.
@@L2SFBC yes the leaf in that parking lot isn't a good test, and I'm not suggesting it should bump up it's rating to 5000kg, but it does make you wonder why it's rating is so much smaller. , The model 3 towing almost 6000lb on public roads and highways at speed, plus that slalom test course is pretty compelling evidence that it's capable of more than the 1000kg it is rated for. Plus many reasonably priced EVs in Australia have a 0kg rating, which is just nonsense. They could all tow a small box trailer with a dozen plastic chairs in it, a few blocks. As for the body on frame design, name one EV for sale for less than $100,000 AUD that has it.
I can't see many vehicles with a heavy trailer on the hitch getting up to 100kph in 30secs. It would use a heap of fuel to drive that way plus not be that good for the vehicle in anycase. Perhaps getting up to 100kph in 60secs might be more realistic.
Or maybe we in Australia, are more patient drivers.
A lot of drivers with caravans never get to 100kph! They barely make 90kph! Not sure if that good or bad!
It only needs to be done for the J2807 test, and of course, if the truck loses control of the trailer that'd count as a fail. Good to have a vehicle more capable than you'd need.
Hahaha, yes Robert, too true. Aways good to have something up your sleeve! Thanks for your input re the link to your other videos. I'll find time tomorrow.
Towing more than 2.8t and you should be legally required to use a small truck like NLR/NPR etc.
98% of vehicles would fail this test on the road today…. Especially off the showroom floor! So I wonder how manufacturers test how much a vehicle can tow / carry? Maybe this might make the manufacturer actually put things like coolers, clutches & a proper engine tune on before they charge that over premium price they already charge…. Lol who am I kidding
I tend to agree Holden308. New vehicles don't need to comply!
Just what we need , more oversize houses on wheels roaming the country side.
You are missing the point here. They are already out there, they are just doing it unsafely and illegally. This is to make OT safer for everyone. Stop whinging Karen.
No degradation to the factory ESC is the gotcha. How in the heck would you prove this? So the pollies bow to the need but put in place a large roadblock. IF you do the GVM or GCM upgrade (at great cost) and have an accident - how will you prove to your insurance company the the factory ESC was not compromised.
If your vehicle has the GVM or GCM upgrade you will possibly void any insurance in the case of an accident even if you are NOT at fault.
I can remember when I the suspension professionally lowered on one of my cars for better stability I had to get it engineer certified before my insurance would issue a policy so the same thing may apply here, as in, the upgrades would need to be independently certified.
Be careful tho it could put ya set up into heavy vehicle territory with the extra weight combination , it's 0 limit with alcohol one snith and ya done bloody risky
That depends on the state, in nsw it’s 0.05 up to around 12t gvm
@@chrisbanning413 heavy vehicle is in truck licence territory then it's ooooo in every state
@@davidmilledge221 try looking it up, I just checked & its 0.05 up to 13.9t gvm in nsw.
Wa is 0.05 up to 22.5t gvm
Nt is 0.05 up to 15t gvm.
Different states have different laws.
@@davidmilledge221 also, there is no “zero” bac requirement for heavy vehicle drivers in nsw, 0.02 is the lowest category, even for dangerous goods
And so the lunacy continues. The little light weight Thai Ute's are going to be more dangerous towing the 3500kg caravan.
Just go and buy a truck.
I think the 2 x 68 kg thing is about the average Couple . An 80kg Man and his 56 kg Spouse . Closer to Real that way , huh .
I’m offended. Robert just called myself and my wife midgets and kids. How disrespectful considering we’re not kids - in our 50s and we definitely are not midgets - 170cm plus.
I sincerely apologise for my choice of words. The reason was because I was appalled they would go that light; the average Australian male weight is 87kg, female 72kg and that's without accounting for clothes or personal items such as phones, wallets, handbags, even water bottles. So the 2 x 68kg occupant weight is way low and that's very disappointing to me. Again, I'm sorry.
@@L2SFBC all good. It makes you wonder where they are getting their suggested average weights from. Definitely not ABS.
I would expect it's a very outdated measure. The airline industry had a similar problem and there was even a case of a crash due to the carrier assuming average weights as per guidelines which were way to low. Over time, our size and weight has increased and standard measures need to keep pace. I'm sad that J2807's latest revision didn't include more representative weights, and I'd have liked to have seen the vehicle tow at GVM. I have analysed many vehicle weights and sometimes even a passenger on board means the vehicle cannot tow as advertised...so it does make a difference.
@@L2SFBC: Yes, have picked this up even with passenger vehicles. It is possible to get 5 people, 150 kg each, plus 4 lots of 30 kg luggage going to the airport. So, that is now 870 kg payload, and most sedans / wagons fail this epically!!! A question was asked of the passenger transport authority in my area. Stony silence!!! First thing I do now is to ask for the tare weight of the vehicle, ask what fuel load and spare tyres / other items are on the vehicle, then ask for the G.V.M. If I am not able to get 870 kg minimum between the two, goodbye!!! Space saver tyres are also an automatic rejection!!! The bus industry has a similar problem. Too many seats, too heavy people = overload!!!
Another point is: Weight of the trailer shall not exceed the weight of the hauling unit. If car and trailer, applicable. Prime mover and trailer? No. Case in point: a 2 axle truck can have a G.V.M. of 15 tonne - 6 tonne on the steer axle, and 9 tonne on the 4 tyre single axle. It can then legally tow a tandem or tri-axle trailer. Legal mass of 8 tyre tandem is 16.5 tonne, and a 12 tyre tri-axle is 20 tonne. But, if the truck is towing a pig (caravan) type trailer, or a dog trailer, then the mass of the trailer is not to exceed the mass of the truck. But, please have a read of the legislation. As I suspect that it only applies to vehicles over 4.5 tonne G.V.M..
Good points - pig, dog and articulated trailers have three different sets of dynamics and so can have three sets of limits. I'm forever explaining this...l2sfbc.com/why-a-prime-mover-isnt-the-same-as-a-towcar-and-caravan/
If you tow a 3.5T trailer with a 2.5T ute down a steep hill and your trailer brakes fail! You're a dead man!!
you might want to correct that since the yanks typically weight rate until you either start to loose traction or bunny hop up a hill
Dually as the yanks where the axle rear diff and suspension meets meets (laughable) weight limits, though has the pulling capacity yet doesn't have the stopping capcity..
with 4x4 caravan exceeding 3-4 tons at 23-25 foot these you may need to consider a 3 axle option for off road use..
when applying loads to a ute chassis you might have to address the tracking issues (rear axle replacement) stiffening the section to stop frame bend
we aren't building van and 5th wheels out of marine ply and chip board any more and they coming more weight atr the lesser lengths meaning at 30-45 foot in length neding more axles on the ground to couteract the over all weight ..
today unike yester year where a f250/350 you could tow 2-5 ton van looking at what it was made of you could off load its weight onto more axles at 23 foot cabin space
In context my old 70's-80's 23 foot viscount shy of 2 ton something equivalent in a modern offroad van skirt 4 ton without modification with mods you migh add 1.5-2 ton extra gcm average 6.5 tons, 8 tons (with mods and max allowance of you license) your 500kg over on standard license 2ton excess weight..
you are looking at an f650 or higher 30+ footer..
you might be looking at 6x4/6x6/8x8/8x4 based tow vehicles to be compliant with towing regulation, noting every time carry capacity ina standard 4x4/6x6 platform you must resubmit the vehicle for certification when you your l9oad rating it isn't a free for all like the youtube 4x4 community makes it look like..
sorry buddy if you are going to use a land cruiser v8 diesel you ware at gvm of 2.5 ton your gcm is 6ton 3.5 ton in the caravan
your bas axle/suspension tow hitch rating is 150kg not 350kg you will need at the to3 ball your suspension is rated to human capacity not towing capacity
at 4ton you at 6.5 ton
5 .5 ton you ware at the limit of what you can legally on a car license you;re looking at lr/hr with a gcm greater than 8 ton nothing you will you out of stopping range of a cruiser you will looking at a dolly/dog using a pto gear in the rear axle to help control things greater than 4 ton in weight though would also consider what you tow with....
Could you resubmit your comment in English, please? It looks like you are trying to say something important, but honestly, I can't quite understand what it is.
@@Expedient_Mensch It wasn't a question it was the statement of how they set tow limits in the USA, the way testing is done TFL at some point visited as weight ratings testing lab..
If using a standard 60, 80 and 100 series land cruiser v8 5 seat model as the descriptive example vehicle has a 2.5 ton or 2,500 kg weight rating and 50-100kg weight rating off the hitch basically 6x4 box trailer full of garden waste vs 4,000 KG the average off road capable caravan, we no longer live 2 ton at 25 foot these days we are now 4 ton at the size which is a GCM of 6.5 tons
if you were to add 4 tons to the vehicle you would be at 8 tons at 4.5 tons on the vehicle you will be a different license..
noting the more the caravan weighs the more suspension you will need to tow it..
5th wheel haulage you may need a semi for haulage of it as you are likely above the capacity of the braking system to safely stop it at dead stop weights..
the way this has been explained is to the US definition of weight certification in which set a dangerous presidence on the road due to the testing methodologies the US uses in weight haulage certification ... which when put iin the hands of average joe citizen lands average joe in court for man slaughter for driving over weight and over the capacity of the tow vehicle
top weight specifications should have caveat somae modification of suspension and diffs stenciled in read in red with warning in place DO NOT TOW OVER THIS WEIGHT.. IN THE MANUAL
@@jasonhowe1697 Ok, I see the problem; No punctuation! Makes it too difficult to understand what you are writing. Do everyone a favour and download a spelling/grammar checker, they're free.
@@Expedient_Mensch I also see the see issue of talking to people like a their a five year old and spouting bullshit and and not know what you're talking about though missing the point and creating a base example
the only time you more weight in a cruiser is when you own 7 seat variant of the vehicle and that's hauling people only..
No modification for to excess weight for hauling vehicle a 4 ton van..
base weight of combined weight without mods applied to carry said weight is curb weight 6.5 ton base supported weight 50-100kg towing vs 400-800kg at the tow ball..
put that 4 ton van on that stock suspension yo will get a yellow or red sticker for your troubles as back in will be to the ground and be overweight at the suspension and tow ball..
much like gcm right out of context and give your cruiser a false weight rating..
The maths of around 4 minutes into video is ALL a fail, GCM exceeded on all???
you always upgrade the gvm upgrade to tow a great weight that has been done for decades
Problems are when you come to explain this you put your foot in your mouth because you talk base weight of saf a cruiser which is typically 2,.5 for the 5 seat model you upgrade it to pull greater weight but you don't understand of combined mass you what it means to the license class you have...
Sorry Jason I don't understand your comment?
@@L2SFBC your tow vehicle is roughly 2.5 ton when using a definition of a 4x4 land cruiser v8 turbo spec, base spec of included tow ball is with spec of 6x4 trailer towing at standard off show room floor with 100-150kg tow ball
today we are seeing a weight typically in a 35 footer in the same space of a 25 footer
you're adding 1.5 ton + to meet a 4ton + towing requirement which sees a gcm, 8.4-8.5 tons at road weight without mods applied you are at a gcm of 6.5 tons..
Noting you will be overweight on vehicle license
you can be at 4.5-5 tons on the tow vehicle before towing that 4 ton 25 footer
you have understand where your limits are before you start to talk about where modification lays before you talk about what the regulations state which have been known about since I was a kid in the 70's and 80's
I think what has happened in Qld is likely trying police the back yard mechanic and the stupidity they create when no seeking a certification after they go and change the weight class without engineers approval so the vehicle compl.ioes with licensing laws..
there is legal ways to do things and there is illegal ways to do things, the amount of modders I have seen inside and outside of Qld tells me there might be a lot modders skirting red ticket and pit requirement for road rego soon
@@jasonhowe1697 So you are saying that at maxed out towing weights, anyone driving a newish Landcruiser ute style vehicle will need a light truck licence? That is reasonable. It is certainly something that for the most part, has been bypassed. I guess licencing is a different arm of govt so since weights and licencing are completely separate, they all go their own way on things, as usual. So again, the legislation will not be worth that much in the end. One hopes they get their acts together and come up with a well rounded set of legislation.
Keep hoping!
@@ClissaT I haven't covered utes in this definition yet because you might be over loaded due to engine spec Typically you can start from a 2.4 liter diesel spec with turbo in a hilux, to a v8 turbo 70 series
`the issues are in those examples how far can you push an engine before in becomes a failure point that it can't be stopped whilst towing that 4 ton in utes pending on 2 or 4 door model you base weight can 1.5-2 ton without mods be at a gcm of 5-6.5 tons. however this vary because you might still have upgrade the base suspension package to cater for that 4 ton 25 footer off road camper, the legislation has always been there likely?? it just in its application and where it implies and/or applies to you for your setup you might skirt a GCM of a combined 8 tons on v8 models of ute you might have a death wish in anything of a lower spec engine, at 4 ton towing might be a rolling death trap when brakes give out
on v8 turbo diesel I may be consider 6x4 lazy axle or 6x6 conversion (driven axle) for towing 4 tons or more
looking at the vanning industry and the cases where 5th wheels are gracing our roads even more I would likely consider a prime mover as a suitable past 30 foot in length as you are likely out of specification of as sedan/ute motor to tow it..
looking at fords I would thing the f-550-f-750 may be a proper tow outside of this volvo, scania, kenworth and mack need apply as applicable tow vehicles
Im south African I think its stupid
Is that cause or effect?
Nanny state
Why? You'd prefer anyone can just do anything to increase weights and call it good?
@L2SFBC what I'd rather is vehicles built for purpose. As you said it remains to be seen whether this legislation will be worth it or its just more bloody government wank.
how do you define 'built for purpose' ?
@L2SFBC vehicles that can actually tow to their capacity and still carry passengers and maybe even over 68kg.😁
Would a defined series of tests help figure out whether a vehicle can tow?