I agree with Kachina > Ororon Without electro-charged or another natlan unit, Ororon won't enter the NS blessing state which means he won't trigger the 28% dmg of the scroll set. Kachina just needs to crystalize, which makes her more flexible.
@@maggie-pk7500 Yea man, they get along and realize people have different points of view, they can meet right in the middle, not like other entitled conten creators that only care about mocking people and using out of context lines, Flipcoffcoff, Butterfeercoffcoff
@@simplyrem779they said it, their criteria is different because they focus on different things. Jamie kept forgetting that it was a C0 4 star tier list because he focuses on what’s usually available in an account, there’s differences in their thinking resulting in that Jamie probably wouldn’t make this tier list at all and instead a general value tier list. It’s good to have them debating because then you can build your own criteria
thats actually a really good point by jamie in regards to kachina. I already have endgame-ready characters and teams when natlan released so I overlooked her. but for a new account, getting a free c0 kachina and simply slapping a scroll set on her regardless of substats would make a fine nigh universal boost for any newbie and even midgame player's account. on the other hand the likes of xiangling or xq would still need a fair bit of er building which will take a while(unless whale with endless resin). I'll keep that in mind whenever another friend or relative starts playing genshin.
I think it's a fair criticism that Zajef didn't adequately consider how bad the state of artifacts on a new account is. Just as an example, if an account is only a couple months old, there's absolutely no way you're running solo pyro Xiangling with Mualani and bursting on rotation. You very likely do not even have good enough ER roll artifacts for that, period. You may not even have a fav lance, let alone have enough crit to proc it. Characters like Kachina and Chevreuse that need very little to do 90% of their job gain a lot from this.
And yet even though u can slap her a 2 pc emblem and 2 pc exile and farm for the catch, I think it's not even worth the hassle, coz u should just do this when u have Raiden. It might just be beneficial for u to just pull for Mavuika on this case, instead of investing this much on ur supports just to enable ur on-fielder smh
Zajef did say it's a difference in criteria. I think Jamie is more in line with new accounts with barely anyone built. Meanwhile Zajef is something like veteran F2P looking for a new 4star to add to the roster.
You could say the same for XQ. It takes months to a year to get an r3 Sac/Fav sword for some people. That's even after risking primos on a weapon banner that you don't want the 5* and may not give you the 4* you want. Personal experience. Same for Beidou whose ER qnd crit needs are same as XL. Both ER can be solved by another 4*.
@@siamshikdar Not everyone pulls as often to have every 4star with multiple cons. Also TC is TC because it's theory, it doesn't always have to be real. I don't like Zajef's tierlist but it kinda made sense with his criteria. It's almost an unrealistic scenario (decent artifacts but C0 characters?), but he set his rules and made his tierlist with it. If Jamie made a tierlist I'd probably agree with that more since his view is c0 character on bare minimum gear since he's used to doing viewer abyss runs.
He’s kinda spot on with Kachina. 40% damage bonus free character that needs none of her Cons. Her stock is about to sky rocket with Mavuika now as well. Ororon has been on 1 banner and not on a super well received character banner and well yes he’s better as long as his application doesn’t ruin your reaction… it’s very likely people don’t even have him. Kachina gets replaced quickly but as a free C0 she may be the best unit an account gets
She also slots in as pretty much a VV holder for teams that don't really have great reactions, so you can place Sucrose or Lynette somewhere else. She found great use in my Neuvi team as a placeholder for Xilonen.
@@e554 Obviously? The existence of both now allows you to stack them, use them in different halves, or both. Not to mention Kachina has non-negligible defensive utility with Crystallize.
@@Syokoolsigewinne and furina is a great duo that you can slot in basically anywhere for abyss. sigewinne has no er requirements and furinas are much more relaxed too. navia, wanderer etc. it wont be the highest damage but atleast i can take a breather from bennett and still clear abyss
@@hj-yj5yoProblem is she's extremely replaceable, there's no team for her with Furina where she's best, her buff isn't even more than other characters and it only last for a couple hits, other characters can do what she do but better.
Kirara and Thoma are so good for Clorinde already that I don’t think Lanyan will be able to replace them, but for Arle I have really high hopes for Bennett/Yelan/Lanyan teams, if there is a consistent double swirl setup we’ll be eating good.
@@crimsonmoon123 Thoma works for overload and Lanyan doesn’t, that’s his value. As for Kirara, we are looking at a team comparison between Kirara/Fischl/Kazuha vs Nahida/Fischl/Lanyan. Lanyan can’t actually pass TTDS to Clorinde in this team since she can’t swirl after Nahida applies dendro because Nahida applies too much and dominates the aura, and other rotations have dookie VV uptime. Kazuha’s personal swirled aggravates do more damage than TTDS can contribute anyway, and Kirara on Instructors/Sapwood + her DMG% from C6 is particularly good for Aggravate teams, and instructors allows Kazuha to give a higher DMG% buff with his talent. Lanyan is just not it for this team since the existing options have too much synergy.
@@Shane_A_M you're actually right haha i totally forgot about the rotation which will fuck up the ttds buff for clorinde.. man but my kirara ain't c6 😩
4:25 pyro MC will replace her in Mualani teams, I still think her placement in A is valid. Although on a new account electro, hydro and dendro characters are much more valuable due to how OP both hyperbloom and electro charaged are early on
You gotta complete the Natlan archon quest to get PMC. Im pretty sure an account will have a decent xiangling built by the time they get to around AR45
The main issue for Xiangling pre-C4 is that she's pretty scuffed for any teamcomp built around her. So she ends up not having many teams she's good in.
Yeah I do not need yet another onfield pyro dps, nor do I need yet another cryo sustain. An anemo shield though? Now that's new. And I also like her design a lot more than Mavuika. Sadly I do like Citlali's design a lot, but her attack animations are a letdown for me and her role is not needed.
@@lynn9265 Citlali is THE forward melt enabler the game was sorely lacking. Her shield is also really useful for Arlecchino who couldn't slot a shielder without massive dps loss. Lanyan might technically be more "new" but she hardly enables any new teams. More of a sidegrade to existing anemo/sustain slots.
I could see Iansan being a phys offield support to boost Eula performance a bit, and then Skirk comes out as a modern phys dps to make Eula irrelevant again.
Ningguang is underrated for C0 new account. (Granted half these 5 stars didn't exist when I started) She was my GOAT for my account because unlike everyone else, she mostly didn't care what element the targets were and I was able to really build that single unit until I started getting 5 stars. You could condense your investing until you started getting the teams you actually want. Remember how baby the domains are and you aren't doing abyss until months in just trying to get World Level up. Sucrose dodged my account for over a year and all the F-----s saying "just use Sucrose" for 4 star clears in pretty much everything without giving alternatives was just asinine. I literally had multiple built 5 star teams before Sucrose C0 even touched my account.
I got a 3 year veteran account with all the 4* and many of the 5* and kachina still finds a use in my navia team (mainly because i don't get enough crystalize using xilonen with c0 navia) and shes every great in any threatre cycle that has geo as its a very easy boost to any random team. Shes never the BiS choice for any team true not even close but the fact she can be a decent choice nonetheless makes her a worthwhile build for all accounts new or vertern because you cant be sure what content can be implemented in the far future
It's mainly that she is just a cinder city holder. (Her optimal build is to leave her at level 1 and give her fav lance and then use your resources elsewhere)
For the missing electro for unit for eula, I'm coping that Iansan will fill the slot. She is an electro and her work is to be a fitness trainer. Who could be a better support for physical?
I played for about a year now and so far I have c6 Fischl, Xiangling, Xingqui, Barbara, Heizou, Thoma, Sethos, and Kuki. If I could eventually c6 Sucrose and Chevy, that would be great.
mika at c6 gives alone with his 25% attack speed increase and 60% crit dmg buff is allready pretty strong. now imagine having a physical bow normal attack user with good numbers (so not fischl) and very high crit value with 200% crit dmg and 100% crit rate. mika would give a ~63% overall increase in the motion value with his 2 biggest buffs. now dont forget he is cryo, so he can give you cryo resonance, he can still wield any supportive artifact or weapon, he has his detector stacks that can increase dmg significantly against more opponents, and he has a really strong heal. for a demo of how strong mika actually would be with a good main dps, you should combine fischl with yun jin and imagine you are playing a team with only 3 units.
exactly this, but character strength is very reliant on relevance, mika having no good synergies helps to make him a bad character. take itto for instance, insane multipliers, a really good artifact set, great base stats, just about everything you could need in a carry's kit to make them good, but the only support he had was gorou, without having any super synergistic teammates he fell off hard. of course chiori, albedo, and zhongli existed, but there was anything they could do for him or he could do for them that really multiplied the teams damage. It was only until the release of xilonen that itto finally had a really optimal team. Same is the case with mika, he has no one he works with well enough to truly justify him over other characters, or even to justify running the team. As of now he is a bad character, nothing to do with his kit, but everything to do with how well his kit interacts with the rest of the cast. thanks for reading this far if you did, happy holidays!!
Actually building c0 4* characters looks like a huge waste of resources, especially for new accounts where they are scarce. You use them as placeholders for the time being until you get cons or good units to replace them with. That assumption makes just as much sence to me as comparing c6r5 characters without artifacts. Plug-and-play type of criteria seems much more fitting if we are looking at realistic scenario of new account without much options. I refuse to believe sombody actually building c0 Heizou or Lynette instead of just slapping random unleveled 4pc VV and TTDS. I would take Kachina over any B tier (not even close) and some A tiers depending on available wepons and other units. Edit: Barbara and Ning are definetily better than any other D-tier characters simply because of the ability to hold TTDS and Prototype Amber.
I think both Eula and Mika are amazing Characters held back by Hoyo not knowing what to do with Phys. They clearly want Eula to be an attack speed scaler, looking at her weapon and Mika but in all honesty her animations will never allow that to happend. I feel like what Eula needs is an Electro support that gives NA damage or bonus Phys Damage.
Zajef argues Mika isn't bad because he could, maybe, provide support for a future character that doesn't exist. Meanwhile Kachina gives Cinder City buffs, adds defensive support (and crystallize) but he thinks she's not great. Weird. Having a decent character is better than a terrible character that might EVENTUALLY be good.
nah i agree with jamie, zajef has a record of downplaying eula a LOT, i feel like ppl just do not look at the normal attack damage or E2 during her burst and only take the burst damage as her damage... eula has high motion value, somewhat Aoe burst, physical built in shred, but has no support that buffs her Attack speed to a good amount or a physical sub dps that actually does something for the 4th slot
Eula is fine. I also don't understand the hate. Maybe he's just too fixated in comparing pull value and at that point its hard to find reason to go for her meta-wise instead of the Neuvillette's of the game.
Thing is, if her only problem was the damage then it's ok. But she also has quality of life issues like not being able to prefunnel her skill by doing EQ, Burst AOE being decent but sometimes difficult to position, any moving enemy either decreasing stack generation or avoiding her burst/skill nuke. Her kit also feels like she wants to be played with other characters who want to do physical dmg while being buffers (physical Yelan/Furina), but there are no off-field physical characters.
I think what Zajef meant is that Eula's endlag on her normal attacks makes Mika's attack speed buff a lot worst. Meanwhile bow and catalyst users don't have endlag on normal attacks, so if Eula were to be a bow user, she would be a better physical carry.
I tend to think of Barbra as a necessary evil on newer accounts. A lot of teams need healing and they need hydro and if you’re pressed for options Barbra lets you run other characters by consolidating hydro and healing into one slot, but she always feels awful to play because her healing is very weak and the self hydro app is always troll. I have to run Barbra on my F2P with Hu Tao for lack of options and I honestly hate it. I’m replacing her with Lan Yan the moment I get her
I actually really like Mika, probably one of the few people that does, so I'd be delighted if there was a character that can take advantage of his buffs. Shame his buff has no way to scale better in Single Target
17:53 no way did he just say Mika is good and Eula is bad. I like watching videos like these. It sometimes exposes how much of a clown the CCs I follow can be. Poor Jamie, he arguments were hitting a brick wall and he had to give up altogether with Eula and Kachina.
Even that existed a support that would give straight up 100% physical dmg bonus + 50%critdamage + 100% critrate on burst + 40% ATK, EULA still would get a dps similar to a mid hutao team. Eula numbers is just that bad sorry, she is just faded to be powecrept to oblivion when new physical dps arrives
Mate, you gotta stop simping, and actually look at Eula's number. She's shit. She has bad QoL. You could have a character that does everything Faruzan or Chevreuse does to physical, and Eula still wouldn't be good or nice to play. Zajef's Kachina take is wild. His Eula take is not. Mika's not the problem, Eula is.
She is bad but saying that without context is reductive. She has no synergistic teammates at all. Would she be suddenly top meta if she got a phys faruzan/xilonen/chiori/etc.? No of course not, but saying there is no world she could be good is so insanely wrong when Xiao was in the same spot as her pre-faruzan. It’s just exhausting to argue at this point.
@@FirstLast-qq9zh her kit is just not good. - backloaded dmg, almost no elemental application, worst element /phys/ etc can they fix her? yes. will they. very unlikely. Xiao problem was lack of dmg and energy. his kit is actually quite good.
Go for c6, I want to see kayea in A tier. Also, every heroes or ttod holder is at least tier B, at least. Plus, I'm happy to use amber elegy with furina c6 to do milions, that girl has the only burst with 0.2 sec application and no ICD whatsoever (being there since XQ c6 jace cutter + elegy) When I see amber tier I always think: did they cap the "S" place?
Depends on what you need. Do you want a pyro dps get Gaming do you want a defensive support get Lanyan. But note Gaming needs some pretty good supports to function like Furina but do does every dps in the game. So yeah not really an issue. Cloud retainer is his bis and i dont have her but i intend to get her.
I think c0 xiangling will fall off a lot next patch that's it's not even worth considering anymore and I also think c0 ororun is better than a c0 Xingqiu as he is much more functional than him and ororun still have a team slot even when you have 5 star characters and their cons unlike Xingqiu who has to compete with furina and yelan who do more damage then him and give buffs too I don't have a high opinion about c0 Bennett but if you need to use him there's no other option than Also c6 chevreuse is as overloaded as c6 faruzan
I'd be inclined to agree that Chevreuse and Faruzan are similar at C6 since their kits have a lot of overlapping mechanics at that point (Personal damage done through skills , a nuke on burst , elemental shred and damage bonus) But not only is some of what Chevreuse does backloaded (C6) , I'd argue the areas where they don't have overlap give Faruzan an upper hand , grouping + off field particles (ON TOP of the 40 cv) holds more weight than healing , especially when there's a non zero chance you're also using Bennett in a team with Chevreuse
They wont be best friends, but they will know each other at least. You’d almost always want your anemo slot to be kazuha, but she consolidates vv and defensive utility really well
anemo so vv, catalyst so thrilling tales also anemo normals and some grouping on a shielder that doesn't need constellations all that much. nothing new or different just role consolidation, she's solid but hype is mostly for new players, it's not for us
10:21 no ororon wants electro charge or he doesn't buff with scroll.. meanwhile kachina goat does it all with every element offiled. That kachina take was dumb of zajef and Jamie stayed shut but you can almost hear his mind saying it's a dumb take
what ? ororon doesn't need electro-charge to trigger scroll... read again scroll 4p effect. If anything kachina isn't able to buff dendro or anemo chars ? And her elemental reactions are useless compared to what electro can bring ? Also you're more likely to have another electro teammate than you are to have double geo core to benefit from resonance and same element particles. And jamie stayed shut because Zajef just explained that the reason they were not agreeing was because of a difference in criteria not because they thought x or y character is better than the other.
@merydex7717 I can prove you incorrect on every single point but i'mma keep the argument civilized and prove you wrong on just one thing... don't take it personally but it looks you've never used ororon, atleast outside of EC .. I too thought he'd buff my tighnari spread and clhorinde overload... He doesn't actually consume nightsoul points to trigger artifact... Someone broke my bubble the same way as I'm breaking yours now ... Try it yourself then come again in this comment to prove me wrong... I was too in delulu that he'd buff my tighnari with scroll... He didn't
@@merydex7717 keep enjoying ur delulu that he'll trigger your scroll outside of EC . I also was in the same delulu once . And about that staying shut thing.. you surely don't understand psychology and tacit human behaviour . Don't take it as a personal attack instead learn
@@ashphoenix3507 Why do you behave in such a way ? Besides that you haven't not once in your message given a single argument for both subjects you mentionned as opposed to me, when trying to convey something we usually explain what we mean, demonstrate it or give examples. And remember I could've easily been passive-aggressive in my answer but I don't get anything out of it.
@@merydex7717 I'm just compelling you to use ororon outside of EC teams to find out he doesn't actually scroll set .. even though he shows his nightsoul gauge. I've tried it and tested it . Sorry if I was rude. I just want you to see for yourself that he doesn't trigger scroll instead of writing long paragraphs on why he doesn't trigger it
@@jsw973 I did, but he doesn't justify being talked about for as long as he's talked about. He might be good later, but he's not good right now, and there's really nothing more to say than that.
I'm sorry, but Zajef's take on Kachina is really bad. His only response to Jamie's points is to keep moving the goal posts. It really exposes how inherently bad tier lists are as a tool for showing value of units.
@cappycap8144 I tried not recommended even blocked some channel content yet here i am at last commenting shit on the vedios for no reason youtube algo sucks🫥
You have to clear your youtube history. Even if you hover over the video and it autoplays a bit, youtube counts it as "interested in this" So either clear it out entirely, so yt can build off of your followed channels, or go in your recently watched videos and remove it. YT's algo is really bad compared to 2 years ago, so I erase it frequently now
Thanks for the shoutout! Maybe this debate could be interesting to some of you guys
I agree with Kachina > Ororon
Without electro-charged or another natlan unit, Ororon won't enter the NS blessing state which means he won't trigger the 28% dmg of the scroll set. Kachina just needs to crystalize, which makes her more flexible.
You and Zajeff are some of my favorite ccs and I love spirited healthy discussions like this
Good discussions. We need a TGS + Zajef + Jamie video
@@maggie-pk7500 Yea man, they get along and realize people have different points of view, they can meet right in the middle, not like other entitled conten creators that only care about mocking people and using out of context lines, Flipcoffcoff, Butterfeercoffcoff
It was a cool discussion. 👍
The way Jamie disengages from certain topics to continue building a constructive discussion is very tasteful and respectable
Turned off the video half way through because I couldn’t stand how zajef presents. I can’t boil down how his behavior irritates me to a few sentences.
jamies the goat, always
Because zajeff can't accept Jamie's thoughts and Jaime disengages because it's pointless trying to change zajef's list.
@@simplyrem779they said it, their criteria is different because they focus on different things. Jamie kept forgetting that it was a C0 4 star tier list because he focuses on what’s usually available in an account, there’s differences in their thinking resulting in that Jamie probably wouldn’t make this tier list at all and instead a general value tier list. It’s good to have them debating because then you can build your own criteria
Jamie seems to behave maturely. Zajef is stubborn often to the point that he is unwilling to evaluate others’ viewpoints or opinions
thats actually a really good point by jamie in regards to kachina. I already have endgame-ready characters and teams when natlan released so I overlooked her.
but for a new account, getting a free c0 kachina and simply slapping a scroll set on her regardless of substats would make a fine nigh universal boost for any newbie and even midgame player's account. on the other hand the likes of xiangling or xq would still need a fair bit of er building which will take a while(unless whale with endless resin). I'll keep that in mind whenever another friend or relative starts playing genshin.
I think it's a fair criticism that Zajef didn't adequately consider how bad the state of artifacts on a new account is. Just as an example, if an account is only a couple months old, there's absolutely no way you're running solo pyro Xiangling with Mualani and bursting on rotation. You very likely do not even have good enough ER roll artifacts for that, period. You may not even have a fav lance, let alone have enough crit to proc it. Characters like Kachina and Chevreuse that need very little to do 90% of their job gain a lot from this.
And yet even though u can slap her a 2 pc emblem and 2 pc exile and farm for the catch, I think it's not even worth the hassle, coz u should just do this when u have Raiden. It might just be beneficial for u to just pull for Mavuika on this case, instead of investing this much on ur supports just to enable ur on-fielder smh
Zajef did say it's a difference in criteria. I think Jamie is more in line with new accounts with barely anyone built. Meanwhile Zajef is something like veteran F2P looking for a new 4star to add to the roster.
You could say the same for XQ. It takes months to a year to get an r3 Sac/Fav sword for some people. That's even after risking primos on a weapon banner that you don't want the 5* and may not give you the 4* you want. Personal experience.
Same for Beidou whose ER qnd crit needs are same as XL. Both ER can be solved by another 4*.
@@H0juma Why would a veteran F2P would not have any of those 4 stars? Justifying bad TC as a "different in criteria" is a very bad argument. Not good.
@@siamshikdar Not everyone pulls as often to have every 4star with multiple cons. Also TC is TC because it's theory, it doesn't always have to be real. I don't like Zajef's tierlist but it kinda made sense with his criteria. It's almost an unrealistic scenario (decent artifacts but C0 characters?), but he set his rules and made his tierlist with it. If Jamie made a tierlist I'd probably agree with that more since his view is c0 character on bare minimum gear since he's used to doing viewer abyss runs.
zajef meets zajef
Indian zajef
zajef77 meets zajef78
@@bulletpunch9317 is Jamie really Indian ? He definitely looks Indian but his accent doesn't.
@@draken7667well he's definitely british at least
@@draken7667 .....someone doesn't need to have an accent to be of a certain race, my dude...
He’s kinda spot on with Kachina. 40% damage bonus free character that needs none of her Cons. Her stock is about to sky rocket with Mavuika now as well. Ororon has been on 1 banner and not on a super well received character banner and well yes he’s better as long as his application doesn’t ruin your reaction… it’s very likely people don’t even have him. Kachina gets replaced quickly but as a free C0 she may be the best unit an account gets
zajef underrates kachina massively. kachina is like ororons scroll set buffer but she also provides geo crystallyze for the petra set on someone else
She also slots in as pretty much a VV holder for teams that don't really have great reactions, so you can place Sucrose or Lynette somewhere else. She found great use in my Neuvi team as a placeholder for Xilonen.
@@MicrocarpaRutaceae Mualani support is better than kachina support.
@@MicrocarpaRutaceae huge diff between 40% res shred and 40% dmg bonus
@AlwaysThirstys The point is she works as a completely free c0 4 star, which is what the video talks about anyway.
@@e554 Obviously? The existence of both now allows you to stack them, use them in different halves, or both. Not to mention Kachina has non-negligible defensive utility with Crystallize.
MUCH more pleasant to listen to than jstern being his usual obnoxious "UHM ACKTUALLY" self when collaborating. Please more with jamie!
Nothing beat mriwintolose
If we want to pad out the content to 2 more hours and increasing zajefs blood pressure, he sure is a content machine.
Jamie the biggest Sigewinne defender? Hell nah.
@@Syokoolsigewinne and furina is a great duo that you can slot in basically anywhere for abyss. sigewinne has no er requirements and furinas are much more relaxed too.
navia, wanderer etc.
it wont be the highest damage but atleast i can take a breather from bennett and still clear abyss
@@hj-yj5yoProblem is she's extremely replaceable, there's no team for her with Furina where she's best, her buff isn't even more than other characters and it only last for a couple hits, other characters can do what she do but better.
If lanyan helps with my arle vape and clorinde aggravate teams then she's god tier for me.
This is literally why I'm pre-farming her mats, so I can use her with my Clorinde aggravate.
Kirara and Thoma are so good for Clorinde already that I don’t think Lanyan will be able to replace them, but for Arle I have really high hopes for Bennett/Yelan/Lanyan teams, if there is a consistent double swirl setup we’ll be eating good.
@@Shane_A_M lanyan is an anemo catalyst, which means she can hold vv + ttds. Kirara and thoma are nowhere close.
@@crimsonmoon123 Thoma works for overload and Lanyan doesn’t, that’s his value. As for Kirara, we are looking at a team comparison between Kirara/Fischl/Kazuha vs Nahida/Fischl/Lanyan. Lanyan can’t actually pass TTDS to Clorinde in this team since she can’t swirl after Nahida applies dendro because Nahida applies too much and dominates the aura, and other rotations have dookie VV uptime. Kazuha’s personal swirled aggravates do more damage than TTDS can contribute anyway, and Kirara on Instructors/Sapwood + her DMG% from C6 is particularly good for Aggravate teams, and instructors allows Kazuha to give a higher DMG% buff with his talent. Lanyan is just not it for this team since the existing options have too much synergy.
@@Shane_A_M you're actually right haha i totally forgot about the rotation which will fuck up the ttds buff for clorinde.. man but my kirara ain't c6 😩
4:25 pyro MC will replace her in Mualani teams, I still think her placement in A is valid. Although on a new account electro, hydro and dendro characters are much more valuable due to how OP both hyperbloom and electro charaged are early on
You gotta complete the Natlan archon quest to get PMC. Im pretty sure an account will have a decent xiangling built by the time they get to around AR45
Im in sumeru storyline ar 50, can i complete natlan quest now?
@@maximgodunov7717idk if this still available,but back in 5.0 there is feature to enable you doing natlan archon quest just by completing liyue.
@imjustaguycalledsano yea, fair point, being an OG player I tend to forget how long it takes to catch up to story for a new player
The main issue for Xiangling pre-C4 is that she's pretty scuffed for any teamcomp built around her. So she ends up not having many teams she's good in.
I low key hope with Lan Yan or sometime soon, we can get an HP bar for our shield values in the UI.
Now I want c6, just to know how much some characters improve from c0 to c6
Gaming stocks 📈
Dori stocks 📈
Mr. Balls stocks 📈
faruzan in S tier
Wild that she’s the new character I’m looking forward the most to
Likewise. The other new characters are hard passes for me, but she's super cute.
Yup i too hate mavukia
Yeah I do not need yet another onfield pyro dps, nor do I need yet another cryo sustain. An anemo shield though? Now that's new. And I also like her design a lot more than Mavuika. Sadly I do like Citlali's design a lot, but her attack animations are a letdown for me and her role is not needed.
Same for me, and I even get the bonus of being able to nab C2 Arlecchino on the way.
@@lynn9265 Citlali is THE forward melt enabler the game was sorely lacking.
Her shield is also really useful for Arlecchino who couldn't slot a shielder without massive dps loss.
Lanyan might technically be more "new" but she hardly enables any new teams.
More of a sidegrade to existing anemo/sustain slots.
Zajef got destroyed on the kachina debate
I could see Iansan being a phys offield support to boost Eula performance a bit, and then Skirk comes out as a modern phys dps to make Eula irrelevant again.
Anything phys related is welcome regardless.
Eula team still gets better at the end of the day.
Ningguang is underrated for C0 new account. (Granted half these 5 stars didn't exist when I started) She was my GOAT for my account because unlike everyone else, she mostly didn't care what element the targets were and I was able to really build that single unit until I started getting 5 stars. You could condense your investing until you started getting the teams you actually want. Remember how baby the domains are and you aren't doing abyss until months in just trying to get World Level up.
Sucrose dodged my account for over a year and all the F-----s saying "just use Sucrose" for 4 star clears in pretty much everything without giving alternatives was just asinine. I literally had multiple built 5 star teams before Sucrose C0 even touched my account.
same, i was ar60 for like a year before i got c0 sucrose
I got a 3 year veteran account with all the 4* and many of the 5* and kachina still finds a use in my navia team (mainly because i don't get enough crystalize using xilonen with c0 navia) and shes every great in any threatre cycle that has geo as its a very easy boost to any random team. Shes never the BiS choice for any team true not even close but the fact she can be a decent choice nonetheless makes her a worthwhile build for all accounts new or vertern because you cant be sure what content can be implemented in the far future
Had to stop the video after the Kachina bit. Zajef's arguments against her made no sense.
It's mainly that she is just a cinder city holder. (Her optimal build is to leave her at level 1 and give her fav lance and then use your resources elsewhere)
@AlwaysThirstys so is ororon at c0
i think the bottom tier should've just been ayaka's "my apologies!" voiceline
Kachinas dying lines make me want to puke
For the missing electro for unit for eula, I'm coping that Iansan will fill the slot. She is an electro and her work is to be a fitness trainer. Who could be a better support for physical?
Oh I see your vision, will come back here when we have more infos
Honestly good point, hope hoyo gives Physical the attention it needs and deserves
i think people especially underestimate mika in a few teams with furina: wanderer and wriothesley for exapmle
Its funny how he buffs the catalyst users who use normal attacks
Bennett has his own tier lmao
He is the honoured one after all
I have them all c6, because I’m miserable
HELP XD
I played for about a year now and so far I have c6 Fischl, Xiangling, Xingqui, Barbara, Heizou, Thoma, Sethos, and Kuki. If I could eventually c6 Sucrose and Chevy, that would be great.
I do think that Kachina provides a lot because of scroll.
mika at c6 gives alone with his 25% attack speed increase and 60% crit dmg buff is allready pretty strong.
now imagine having a physical bow normal attack user with good numbers (so not fischl) and very high crit value with 200% crit dmg and 100% crit rate.
mika would give a ~63% overall increase in the motion value with his 2 biggest buffs.
now dont forget he is cryo, so he can give you cryo resonance, he can still wield any supportive artifact or weapon, he has his detector stacks that can increase dmg significantly against more opponents, and he has a really strong heal.
for a demo of how strong mika actually would be with a good main dps, you should combine fischl with yun jin and imagine you are playing a team with only 3 units.
exactly this, but character strength is very reliant on relevance, mika having no good synergies helps to make him a bad character. take itto for instance, insane multipliers, a really good artifact set, great base stats, just about everything you could need in a carry's kit to make them good, but the only support he had was gorou, without having any super synergistic teammates he fell off hard. of course chiori, albedo, and zhongli existed, but there was anything they could do for him or he could do for them that really multiplied the teams damage. It was only until the release of xilonen that itto finally had a really optimal team. Same is the case with mika, he has no one he works with well enough to truly justify him over other characters, or even to justify running the team. As of now he is a bad character, nothing to do with his kit, but everything to do with how well his kit interacts with the rest of the cast. thanks for reading this far if you did, happy holidays!!
@@kodo_meow happy holidays!
Actually building c0 4* characters looks like a huge waste of resources, especially for new accounts where they are scarce. You use them as placeholders for the time being until you get cons or good units to replace them with. That assumption makes just as much sence to me as comparing c6r5 characters without artifacts. Plug-and-play type of criteria seems much more fitting if we are looking at realistic scenario of new account without much options. I refuse to believe sombody actually building c0 Heizou or Lynette instead of just slapping random unleveled 4pc VV and TTDS.
I would take Kachina over any B tier (not even close) and some A tiers depending on available wepons and other units.
Edit: Barbara and Ning are definetily better than any other D-tier characters simply because of the ability to hold TTDS and Prototype Amber.
We waited so long for the Faruzan Recognition but finally here we are
Gotta say some of jamie's arguments made me as confused as zajef in this discussion.
funny because idk what zajef is smoking with his kachina stance
Zaj has Kachina, and Jamie has Eula
barbara xinyan ones were goofy
a eula stunlock just for her to still be shitter at the end of the day. what now
Zajef's single minded focus on ftp meta is both blessing and curse.
Why is zajef assuming “brand new account” but then equally only focusing on Mualani teams? Like wtf
I think both Eula and Mika are amazing Characters held back by Hoyo not knowing what to do with Phys.
They clearly want Eula to be an attack speed scaler, looking at her weapon and Mika but in all honesty her animations will never allow that to happend.
I feel like what Eula needs is an Electro support that gives NA damage or bonus Phys Damage.
heuzou above ga ming is... interesting lol
Zajef argues Mika isn't bad because he could, maybe, provide support for a future character that doesn't exist. Meanwhile Kachina gives Cinder City buffs, adds defensive support (and crystallize) but he thinks she's not great. Weird.
Having a decent character is better than a terrible character that might EVENTUALLY be good.
the kashina stunlock is a skip for me
nah i agree with jamie, zajef has a record of downplaying eula a LOT, i feel like ppl just do not look at the normal attack damage or E2 during her burst and only take the burst damage as her damage... eula has high motion value, somewhat Aoe burst, physical built in shred, but has no support that buffs her Attack speed to a good amount or a physical sub dps that actually does something for the 4th slot
Eula is fine. I also don't understand the hate.
Maybe he's just too fixated in comparing pull value and at that point its hard to find reason to go for her meta-wise instead of the Neuvillette's of the game.
Thing is, if her only problem was the damage then it's ok. But she also has quality of life issues like not being able to prefunnel her skill by doing EQ, Burst AOE being decent but sometimes difficult to position, any moving enemy either decreasing stack generation or avoiding her burst/skill nuke.
Her kit also feels like she wants to be played with other characters who want to do physical dmg while being buffers (physical Yelan/Furina), but there are no off-field physical characters.
Exactly
Mika also has restrictions on his physical buffing, needing multiple targets to gain his full stacks
I think what Zajef meant is that Eula's endlag on her normal attacks makes Mika's attack speed buff a lot worst. Meanwhile bow and catalyst users don't have endlag on normal attacks, so if Eula were to be a bow user, she would be a better physical carry.
I tend to think of Barbra as a necessary evil on newer accounts. A lot of teams need healing and they need hydro and if you’re pressed for options Barbra lets you run other characters by consolidating hydro and healing into one slot, but she always feels awful to play because her healing is very weak and the self hydro app is always troll. I have to run Barbra on my F2P with Hu Tao for lack of options and I honestly hate it. I’m replacing her with Lan Yan the moment I get her
I actually really like Mika, probably one of the few people that does, so I'd be delighted if there was a character that can take advantage of his buffs.
Shame his buff has no way to scale better in Single Target
Finally someone acknowledging faruzan strengths without c6
I wonder when he'll make the banner video for 5.3 cuz I'm seriously debating going for all the different characters with my new account
He probably will? I think the official banners drop tomorrow and I hope he makes the video too
new characters powercreep the frick outta of old ones that's all you need to know
Yeah man C0 Xingling for one character yaoyao, Lynette and heizou are better than kachina
What about a C6 4* tier list?
He did one a while ago but I think it only went up to Sethos
I think xingqiu needs to be in S since you have legit no good flexible hydro options if you didn't pull for a hydro 5* yet
Now i will build kachina
17:32 thats short for calculator.
17:53 no way did he just say Mika is good and Eula is bad. I like watching videos like these. It sometimes exposes how much of a clown the CCs I follow can be. Poor Jamie, he arguments were hitting a brick wall and he had to give up altogether with Eula and Kachina.
Even that existed a support that would give straight up 100% physical dmg bonus + 50%critdamage + 100% critrate on burst + 40% ATK, EULA still would get a dps similar to a mid hutao team. Eula numbers is just that bad sorry, she is just faded to be powecrept to oblivion when new physical dps arrives
Mate, you gotta stop simping, and actually look at Eula's number. She's shit. She has bad QoL. You could have a character that does everything Faruzan or Chevreuse does to physical, and Eula still wouldn't be good or nice to play.
Zajef's Kachina take is wild. His Eula take is not. Mika's not the problem, Eula is.
Eula is bad. even at c0R1. She was my first 5 star. double crowned. each time I try it in abyss its miserable experience :/
She is bad but saying that without context is reductive. She has no synergistic teammates at all.
Would she be suddenly top meta if she got a phys faruzan/xilonen/chiori/etc.? No of course not, but saying there is no world she could be good is so insanely wrong when Xiao was in the same spot as her pre-faruzan. It’s just exhausting to argue at this point.
@@FirstLast-qq9zh her kit is just not good. - backloaded dmg, almost no elemental application, worst element /phys/ etc
can they fix her? yes. will they. very unlikely.
Xiao problem was lack of dmg and energy. his kit is actually quite good.
Go for c6, I want to see kayea in A tier. Also, every heroes or ttod holder is at least tier B, at least.
Plus, I'm happy to use amber elegy with furina c6 to do milions, that girl has the only burst with 0.2 sec application and no ICD whatsoever (being there since XQ c6 jace cutter + elegy)
When I see amber tier I always think: did they cap the "S" place?
30:20 runescape jumpscare
Yo, any people with out speaking directs out there?
She knows
All that just for her to flop on release chiiiiii
Why is Lynette in A ?
vv + unbreakable taunt + some movement with skill so pretty useful anemo support if that's your only option
Anemo support is like Natlan support. Even if you're shitty, your artifact carries you
i mean vv set burst that can apply additional element and has a passive that you will use get at 16% atk bonus to the team
I'm really just surprised Kirara is so high up, the rest i understand. She that good?
Who the best choice in lantern rite gaming or lanyan
Depends on what you need. Do you want a pyro dps get Gaming do you want a defensive support get Lanyan. But note Gaming needs some pretty good supports to function like Furina but do does every dps in the game. So yeah not really an issue. Cloud retainer is his bis and i dont have her but i intend to get her.
lanyan
Hello zajef how you doing
I think c0 xiangling will fall off a lot next patch that's it's not even worth considering anymore
and I also think c0 ororun is better than a c0 Xingqiu as he is much more functional than him and ororun still have a team slot even when you have 5 star characters and their cons unlike Xingqiu who has to compete with furina and yelan who do more damage then him and give buffs too
I don't have a high opinion about c0 Bennett but if you need to use him there's no other option than
Also c6 chevreuse is as overloaded as c6 faruzan
I'd be inclined to agree that Chevreuse and Faruzan are similar at C6 since their kits have a lot of overlapping mechanics at that point (Personal damage done through skills , a nuke on burst , elemental shred and damage bonus)
But not only is some of what Chevreuse does backloaded (C6) , I'd argue the areas where they don't have overlap give Faruzan an upper hand , grouping + off field particles (ON TOP of the 40 cv) holds more weight than healing , especially when there's a non zero chance you're also using Bennett in a team with Chevreuse
@@Terralunna0 Chevs buff is bigger if you get the condition off. 60dmg%, 40% res shred, 40% atk. vs 40crit dmg, 38dmg%, 30res shred.
Do C2 tier list 😅. I agree that if you are looking at C0 you are playing scuff teams.
Yoo!!
Will Lan Yan be the new best friend for Neuvilet?
no man its better to use zl+kazuha with furina/neuv
ZL= PA
kazuha VV and buffs
They wont be best friends, but they will know each other at least. You’d almost always want your anemo slot to be kazuha, but she consolidates vv and defensive utility really well
Yanlan xilonen better than zhongli kazha
does her c2 include charged attacks i have not researched
@JohnCook-c5b it does not, only normal attacks
Why are people over hyping lan yan, what does she do differently??
anemo so vv, catalyst so thrilling tales also anemo normals and some grouping on a shielder that doesn't need constellations all that much.
nothing new or different just role consolidation, she's solid but hype is mostly for new players, it's not for us
@@abortedButGoated ah I see
I was wondering wh zajeff and others were hyping her
After 30 min of conversation, not a single character changed tiers. Zajeff literally cannot get his opinion changed 😂
10:21 no ororon wants electro charge or he doesn't buff with scroll.. meanwhile kachina goat does it all with every element offiled. That kachina take was dumb of zajef and Jamie stayed shut but you can almost hear his mind saying it's a dumb take
what ? ororon doesn't need electro-charge to trigger scroll... read again scroll 4p effect.
If anything kachina isn't able to buff dendro or anemo chars ? And her elemental reactions are useless compared to what electro can bring ? Also you're more likely to have another electro teammate than you are to have double geo core to benefit from resonance and same element particles.
And jamie stayed shut because Zajef just explained that the reason they were not agreeing was because of a difference in criteria not because they thought x or y character is better than the other.
@merydex7717 I can prove you incorrect on every single point but i'mma keep the argument civilized and prove you wrong on just one thing... don't take it personally but it looks you've never used ororon, atleast outside of EC .. I too thought he'd buff my tighnari spread and clhorinde overload... He doesn't actually consume nightsoul points to trigger artifact... Someone broke my bubble the same way as I'm breaking yours now ... Try it yourself then come again in this comment to prove me wrong... I was too in delulu that he'd buff my tighnari with scroll... He didn't
@@merydex7717 keep enjoying ur delulu that he'll trigger your scroll outside of EC . I also was in the same delulu once .
And about that staying shut thing.. you surely don't understand psychology and tacit human behaviour . Don't take it as a personal attack instead learn
@@ashphoenix3507 Why do you behave in such a way ? Besides that you haven't not once in your message given a single argument for both subjects you mentionned as opposed to me, when trying to convey something we usually explain what we mean, demonstrate it or give examples. And remember I could've easily been passive-aggressive in my answer but I don't get anything out of it.
@@merydex7717 I'm just compelling you to use ororon outside of EC teams to find out he doesn't actually scroll set .. even though he shows his nightsoul gauge. I've tried it and tested it . Sorry if I was rude. I just want you to see for yourself that he doesn't trigger scroll instead of writing long paragraphs on why he doesn't trigger it
Not putting Fischl in S is a certified zajef take. Maybe one of the worst ones.
at c0?
even at c5 she is not there.
Mika is not a good character (yet). Don't call him good until he's actually useful.
Did you even see the tier list? He's low. If he's a good character already, he'd be more like Faruzan in placement.
@@jsw973 I did, but he doesn't justify being talked about for as long as he's talked about. He might be good later, but he's not good right now, and there's really nothing more to say than that.
Fuck, it’s impossible to watch this video
Zajeff is just a complete hater, Jamie's points stand
I'm sorry, but Zajef's take on Kachina is really bad. His only response to Jamie's points is to keep moving the goal posts. It really exposes how inherently bad tier lists are as a tool for showing value of units.
Zajef chill out
Ok shes not better than fischl wtf
Maybe for versatility
This is a c0 tier list. Fischl gains a LOT from her cons and VV doesn't benefit from cons
she is much more versatile being anemo and ttds user. Though this tierlist is at C0 and C6 fischl is massive upgrade from C0
fiscl dogshit at c0
@@silentrhymes7490 i see the point ig, but still less impactful on an account
Sara in D just means Zajeff knows nothing about Sara. Pass
he knows the most important thing
All i see is bunch of adults debating on fantasy characters idk i like the game but stop recommending me these vedio youtube not my cup of tea tbh
you commenting literally puts these vedio in your recommendation feed LOLLLLL
@cappycap8144 I tried not recommended even blocked some channel content yet here i am at last commenting shit on the vedios for no reason youtube algo sucks🫥
You are literally subscribed to Bran and a channel named "Zhongli" you dingus. That's why you are getting this recommendation. 😂
@@hlonghi Ya cuz they are my friends channel idk dude kinda helping him🤔
You have to clear your youtube history. Even if you hover over the video and it autoplays a bit, youtube counts it as "interested in this" So either clear it out entirely, so yt can build off of your followed channels, or go in your recently watched videos and remove it. YT's algo is really bad compared to 2 years ago, so I erase it frequently now