It's crazy how neglected Jon was treated by her. Ned somewhat too as he didn't make her stop mistreating Jon. Yet, after all that, Jon still loved all his siblings. He would protect them with his life. He even said he WANTED a reason to hate Rob, but he never could. He's such a kind guy.
I think Ned was so petrified of anyone finding out Jon was the son of Prince Raegar and oldest living Targaryen and heir to the Throne that he allowed Catelyn to continue as it added subterfuge. But I also think he felt guilty for pushing that on her and making her believe that lie. Edit: Viserys was the oldest Targaryen left alive.
I think you're being too harsh on Catelyn. She hasn't really mistreated Jon besides what she said to him when Bran fell, but even then she wasn't in a normal state of mind in a mix of fear, panic and grief as she was literally cut bone deep by Valyrian steel. If I'm going to be honest anyway, as much as I love Jon, Catelyn had no reason to care for him in the first place. A child that wasn't hers, potentially the only stain on their marriage to her knowledge, why would she care for Jon? The only reason I could see was that the Stark kids were close to him and the Ned (yes, the Ned) kept him tightly around him
@@nahlataha1744 Exactly. She called him by his name for the first time to tell him she wished it were him who fell instead of Bran. I'm not sure how Jon ignored that like a champ.
Shame that even after promising to love Jon if he lived through the pox, she didn't fullfil that promise of treating him fairly. Catelyn is a great character and mother (to her real children), but at the same time I like how she is flawed just like any human being.
It’s pretty incredible to go back and rewatch these scenes knowing the second time through that when Jon walks in on Catlyn making the dreamcatcher thing that the last time she made one was for him…Michelle Fairley really knocked it put of the park with all the emotions she conveyed simultaneously For all its flaws later, it’s easy to remember why this show was so beloved when it began
Tyrion told Jon to wear the title of a Bastard as an armor, that way no one could hurt him But the way Catelyn looks at Jon? No man can make a weapon more hurtful than those eyes
And thats why him going to the wall was the best thing for him. To own his title and not let him hurt him one bit. He was a proud snow. It still hurt tyrion when his father or sister would mention his dwarfism, but not Jon. He grew up and learned from peoples mistakes, he was on even ground at the wall and earned respect. Catelyn was wrong, but it resulted in the Current King Of The North( we dont count season 7&8)
@@azulchamoy people finding out that Jon was the son of Rhaegar would have put a target on his back , claiming Jon was just Neds bastard that he brought home from war didnt raise suspicion
It's sad that their relationship is similar to how bastards suffer in real life, blamed for the sins of their parents, maybe more than their parents are blamed
in all honesty jon was a lucky bastard. born to a noble house with an honorable family stark. Everyone but Sansa and Catlyn was good to him. All his brothers, Arya and Nrd treated him like family even if he was a Snow.
@@wymg4480 Very true, but the lack of love from a parent can be extremely damaging. If he was just part of a lesser family, Catelyn's treatment would have been even harsher
@@MegaKnight2012 yeah i mean no doubt his life was still hard. seeing his other siblings gettin the love that he couldnt and not even knowing his real mother. Tyrion and him rly are similar. Both are "undesirable" to their family but luckily, they were born to great houses and fathers that didnt abandon them. Ned did so out of honor, love and duty to his sister. While Tywin, even with all his hate towards Tyrion, did so out of duty to the family and maybe even to his wife who died giving birth to Tyrion. They had tough lives but definitely wouldve been far worse if they were lesser houses or even commoners. Hell, Tyrion probably wouldve been killed off at infancy.
@@wymg4480 The morals of their fathers is extremely important. Jon has become a moral man, looking for peace and willing to sacrifice himself for others. Martin describes Tyrion as a villain, with Tyrion emulating crueler sides like his father.
Man Caitlyn was pretty awful even by game of thrones standards. She's actually worse to jon in the books and actually tells him "i wish it was you fell from the tower". Rationally if she was angry about a child that wasn't hers she would be treating Ned that way. Jon is quite literally the poster child for " sorry for being born, my bad"
indeed ,it's weird that she managed to forgive her husband, who is the guilty one of fathering a child from another woman, but pours all her hatred on the innocent child
She was lashing out at everyone in that moment. It wasn't just with Jon. He also treated Luwin the same way. And she was not angry to the fact that Ned fathered a bastard. What made her mad was the fact that Ned took the child North, when she arrived at Winterfell with Robb, Jon was already established there with her wet nurse.
@@fatmasibai4292 she understands that many men has bastards and it's common but she was always told "Ned Stark isn't like most men" and to have the living embodiment of her husband's infidelity around her is harsh. Plus Jon is described to have the stark features while Robb, Sansa and Bran had the auburn hair and Tully features
Catelyn was pretty terrible to Jon (and even she admits as such to Talisa) but she's a saint by Game of Thrones standards. Cersei (in the show) has all of Robert's bastards killed, and in the books, Catelyn's own father makes Lysa take an abortifacient after Baelish gets her pregnant (despite her wanting to keep the baby). And most noble men would not 'dishonor' their wife by keeping their bastard in their own house and raising him with his other children.
Her daughters are whores & brainless like Her. Especially Sansa. Stark Women are the worst charachters in all novels. Far worse from Jofrey, Cersei, Hightowers & All others Combined. I like the Red Wedding cause Catelyn died. But I would liked it more if Sansa was in the place of Robb.
Jon was a real prince he was noble, strong and brave. Cately Stark was just a selfish spoiled woman. She only cared her own children and power. There was not even one single right decision she made. She deserved how she was ended up but Jon did not deserve. Whenever l see a video of this series damn l hate how it ended!
Tbh, Ned not telling Cat was a good move. Even if Cat could keep a secret, it is likely someone else could have found out & snitched. Plus, given the Stark's high status, it would've only drawn more attention to them.
Poor Jon he must've lived a terrible life growing up💔😩 Only if cat knew the truth that hes lyanna and rhaegar's child maybe she would've handled him with care and love
I find it funny how the term 'bastard' has changed over time. It meant one thing thousands of years ago and now it means something else entirely. I suppose it doesn't change when it comes to those ancient texts considering those laws will be relevant again.
@@g0oberdm417 Open a Strong's Concordance or check the multiple definitions online. Like I said, it had a different meaning when the most ancient texts were written. Changing the definitions of words is never an accident or organic.
@@Cuttingtorch Tbf its gone from a more generalised term (illegitimate meaning not lawful including resulting from incest) to more specifically referring to out of wedlock. I wouldn't say that's a stark change tbh
It means the same as it did back then, it’s just that it’s also used as a meaningless insult as most other cuss words are now. Bastard always meant illegitimate kids aka born out of wedlock
Catelyn is an idiot. She set the Kingslayer free. Jaime Lannister, the most valuable bargaining chip Robb Stark and the North could ever dream of having in their possession while Tywin and Cersei was alive. Catelyn lets him go on a ‘promise’. If Catelyn would undermine her son Robb, the war of survival they were fighting, undermine the entire Northern army, and throw away their huge power play on the chance she might get Sansa and Arya back, just imagine what she would part with if the only bargaining chip she had acess to was the knowledge of the paternity secret of husband’s nephew. Ned was right not to trust her with this secret. Jon's life would have been sold.
@@fr0ntend I think you're selling Catelyn far too short. Catelyn has made some very reckless choices - but her one consistent quality is that she would have done anything to protect the people she loves. If Catelyn knew Jon was her nephew, there's nothing in her character that indicates she would not have loved and protected him like one of her own children. She would not have used that information as a 'bargaining chip" - Catelyn has never shown to be cold or calculated when it comes to her family. Her decision to free Jaime (while done irresponsibly) was done with her belief that Arya, Bran and Rickon were all dead - and she was the only one thinking of the safety of one of her two surviving children. Even from a practical perspective - at that moment Sansa was heir to the North and Robb was fighting in a dangerous war, if anything happened to him the Lannisters now hold "the key to the North" as Tywin calls her. Catelyn's screw-up was not going through Robb to convince him to trade Jaime for Sansa (and not locking Robb in a chastity belt).
Fun fact if catelyn asked ned to make jon a stark at that point ned may have revealed her the truth, thus changing everything since there are many targaryen supporter in westeros and rob could have rallied them to his side with jon
Not that it excuses how she treated Jon, but she was married to Ned Stark, the most loyal, noble, pure man in Westeros whom everyone thought of as a man who would be his commitment before himself. So to return with a bastard could only mean two things for Catelyn; either he showed only a fake "good" personality, or that woman was more important to him than her. Unfortunately, she knew it wasn't a fake personality...
If Carleton had been more accepting of Jon he might not have gone off to the Nights Watch and been there to watch his half brother Robs back. Could have changed everything for the Starks.
Re-watching these scenes after knowing the ending made me feel anger on behalf of Jon AND Catelyn, because there's no doubt that if she knew the truth she would loved and protected Jon like one of her own children. Catelyn's treatment of Jon was terrible (and she even admits as such), but Ned lying to both of them for their entire lives and allowing them to go on resenting each other is the one stain against his honor. Catelyn was unwaveringly loyal to Ned for their entire marriage, there's no indication in her character that she would have ever leaked Jon's secret and was smart enough to know how to protect him. But Ned's paranoia prevented Jon from having a mother and Catelyn from having a relationship with her nephew - it's tragic all around.
Ned was suffering too, it's even surprising how he managed to maintain his honorable reputation after all that. It really showed how he deeply cared for his sister and the her dying promise. Jon's parentage was too risky. Imagine if he told Catelyn and she told Lysa and Lysa told Littlefinger. Jon would've been murdered.
In the books she is "undead" and ruthless. Not the same Catelyn. Jon is still dead at the wall. It would be interesting if it would be her to resurrect him. Lol (Lady Stoneheart)
There is a pretty interesting theory about that. And I think he knew. ruclips.net/video/Yy4YzTD0J50/видео.html Here is the video if you want to watch it.
@@versatileduplicity9313 I almost cried when i read that part what did he do that she would wish him dead can't wait to see robert,s expression when he finds out that jon was actually the son of the woman he loved and that she didn't love him
catelyn stark by far, is one of the best characters in the work, both in the books and in the series. even with the world falling on her back, she didn't chicken out, she dealt with all misfortunes with courage, honor and resilience. Many hate her for the way she treats Jon Snow, as if we are all perfect, even she doesn't know the truth about Jon.
Sad that Allister Thorne was nicer to Jon Snow than Catelyn Stark ever was and Allister Thorne was a mean nasty prick who took part in Jon's murder. Poor Jon
Even allister Thorne would have been nicer to jon snow if he knew his real identity. Because the reason Allister was sent to the wall was because he didn't surrender to tywin and Roberts army. And was extremely loyal to rhaeghar.
Ned could ve easily prevented this. All he needed to do was telling that Jon was an orphan child he found during the war and that he decided to adopt him. Also telling Cat in secret who Jon really is. This way Cat could ve loved Jon like a mother. But instead he puts all of them into the most awkward situation...
Would form too many questions about his parentage and why Ned cared so much, he was Honorable but even someone like him wasn't just adopting children off the street when he could just as easily given him to another family in winter fell but to invite a supposedly lowborn child into his home and status without being blood? Would of caused prying eyes
Ned knew Tully women couldn't keep a secret. Once Sansa learned about Jon's true born name, she basically immediately told others after saying she wouldn't.
Did Ned got those nurses attending to Lyanna killed or exiled? I would have liked that the secret would have came out through one of the nurses and then whole another level of shit takes place, rather than sam simple telling you are Targeryan.
The sad thing is, if Catelyn hasn't treated Jon so poorly (god forbid Ned trusted his wife enough to confide in her the truth behind Jon's parentage) he might not have felt pushed to join the Knight's Watch in the first place. Sure the 7 kingdom's may have eventually fallen to the whitewalkers without him, but had he been by Robb's side during his war they might’ve succeeded (or maybe Walder Frey/Roose Bolton would have stabbed him in the back along with Robb and Catelyn)?
Ah, if only the gods granted us all our wishes. Lucky for us, they don't. Without knowing it, Catelin Stark was forging the king that would save them all. Not a spoiled, rich, selfish king, like Joffrey or Daeneris, but a king that conquered hearts.
Daenerys wasn’t rich she was homeless the only thing she had was her name she had no land no gold nothing,and spoiled?Are we talking about the little girl that was abused by her brother and sold to a savage that raped her multiple times?And certainly her fighting for the injustices and freeing the slaves and punishing the slavers and saving the 7 kingdoms while seeing her dragon die was a selfish thing,what a joke
To me Catelyn feels immense guilt about failing to love Jon, but she doesn’t know how to reconcile and can only push him away, although not as cruelly as in the books
He’s Ned’s bastard, and she is resentful that he looks more like Ned than his true born kids. At least in the books. In the show he’s Lyanna and Rhaegar’s son
Ich fand ea immer schade das Catlyn Stark nie erfahren hat das ihr Ehemann sie nicht betrogen hat und das Jon Snow nicht der Bastard von Ned Stark ist. Aber ich glaube wenn sie es erfahren hätte hätte sie mit dieser Schuld gar nicht leben können wenn sie sich schon so über Ihren Verrat wegen des gebrochenen Versprechens geschämt hat.
She didn't hate him because he was a bastard. She hated him because despite her promises to the Gods, she found herself incapable of loving him. Its more a reflection of her own flaw.
Because he believed Catelyn's treatment would help sell his bastard status, but it's also possible that Ned held a grudge against the Targaryens for what they did to his family, including his sister, and maybe deep down, he wanted the Targaryen line to end without them reclaiming the throne, so he told so few that Jon was really a Targaryen.
@@MegaKnight2012 best explanation I've read. I believed obviously cat married Ned because his brother died. So the real love they never shared and didn't want to tell the truth. So he never had the 100 percent trust of her.
@@danielramirezjr.9285 It actually seems that Ned and Cat genuinely fell in love after their arranged marriage, which wasn't too uncommon in arranged marriages.
So she begged Ned to make him a stark, but Ned didnt do it because why? Ned had issues not standing up for Jons mistreatment growing up. Like he knows the truth yet never once corrected catelyn from what we saw. Sad
She never wanted him to be a Stark, she never wanted him to be Robb's heir and legitimize him as a Stark. Ned never told Catelyn about his parentage because it would endanger him. If Robert found out Rhaegar had a kid with the woman he was obsessed with, he'd probably go nuts and grab his warhammer. I see your point on him and Jon's mistreatment, but Ned really did love Jon and tried to keep him by his side
Sh told herself that she would beg him to do it but she literally follows up saying she couldn’t keep her promise, meaning she never begged him to make him a Stark. After Jon survived Cat continued to neglect him, and usually it was when Ned wasn’t around to correct her. You can see that in the scene where Jon says goodbye to Bran, Cat is being a bitch to him until Ned walks in behind them and it ends
@@josephstalin2606Cat didn’t neglected him because he wasn’t her son!!!Plus they are a rich family and they used to have women around to raise the kids and I’m sure Jon had some so weird that some of you want to force a woman to love her husband’s bastard
@@lies9029 Nobody said that but it also doesn’t excuse her behavior towards him, she should be angry at her husband not the child that was the victim of circumstance. She doesn’t have to love Jon but she didn’t have to be so cruel to him either especially in the books. It’s not hard to comprehend that her “anger” should’ve been pointed at Ned as he’s the one that “betrayed” her and brought a kid home, Jon had no say in that
@@josephstalin2606 Ye you say that every time u complain about the way she treated him which wasn’t bad it was just indifference and the thing is Jon didn’t even mind it at least in the books he understood the only thing time she mistreated him was when she didn’t eat sleep for days waiting for her son to not die and Jon understood she was hurt and that’s why she said those words
Ned Stark swore to tell no one. The secret lives with him and dies with. And seeing how Cat let Jaime escape, yeah Ned was right to not reveal Jon's identity
@@MindfulnessGamer that's because there was the threat of king robert, who would've killed jon had he known. there was obviously no use keeping a secret if the danger is not there, that's why sansa spreads it. ned would've unveiled the secret had it not been for robert's rage
Simple reason it's not because he didn't trust cat He did telling her wouldve made life easier for both ned and Jon and the whole family It's because he promised his dying sister he wouldn't when she asked. That's why he didn't Ned is about honour duty etc.. So it would be out of character to spill the secert
Jon was an idiot. Happy it somewhat worked out for him but if all that didn't transpire Jon would've had himself stuck in a penial colony for the rest of his life having never experienced any of the joys of being a free man would be.
Catelyn Tully and Sansa (she is not Stark, come one) are ones of the worst characters in the show. Even last 2 sh*t seasons can't break the fact, that Sansa just narcissistic hypocrite.( nothing bad about the actress, they played their characters amazing)
It's crazy how neglected Jon was treated by her. Ned somewhat too as he didn't make her stop mistreating Jon.
Yet, after all that, Jon still loved all his siblings. He would protect them with his life. He even said he WANTED a reason to hate Rob, but he never could. He's such a kind guy.
😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥
I think Ned was so petrified of anyone finding out Jon was the son of Prince Raegar and oldest living Targaryen and heir to the Throne that he allowed Catelyn to continue as it added subterfuge. But I also think he felt guilty for pushing that on her and making her believe that lie.
Edit: Viserys was the oldest Targaryen left alive.
@@StuUngar Yeah exactly, Ned's silence was necessary for keeping Jon alive. It was a sacrifice he had to make in order to preserve his nephew's life.
if ned became too protective to jon people will question it. in these time bastard are abomination
I think you're being too harsh on Catelyn. She hasn't really mistreated Jon besides what she said to him when Bran fell, but even then she wasn't in a normal state of mind in a mix of fear, panic and grief as she was literally cut bone deep by Valyrian steel. If I'm going to be honest anyway, as much as I love Jon, Catelyn had no reason to care for him in the first place. A child that wasn't hers, potentially the only stain on their marriage to her knowledge, why would she care for Jon? The only reason I could see was that the Stark kids were close to him and the Ned (yes, the Ned) kept him tightly around him
Despite how hateful she was with him, he never hated her....this says a lot about Jon!
Because she wasn’t hateful towards him she just never cared about him at least in the books
@@lies9029In the books she straight up told Jon it should have been you to fall from that tower.
No the books Jon fked her
@@nahlataha1744 Exactly. She called him by his name for the first time to tell him she wished it were him who fell instead of Bran. I'm not sure how Jon ignored that like a champ.
@@anonymousman4419 any normal 14 year old would have burst out crying. The fact that he didn’t is a damn miracle.
Shame that even after promising to love Jon if he lived through the pox, she didn't fullfil that promise of treating him fairly. Catelyn is a great character and mother (to her real children), but at the same time I like how she is flawed just like any human being.
It's the Human Behaviour,but still she didn't let the child die.
Lyanna Stark to Catelyn in afterlife...
So you have a problem with my son bitch?
She’s a mother bear, she doesn’t care much for the others.
@@xanderfulton3186 :(
I hated her and thought she was an evil bitch myself
It’s pretty incredible to go back and rewatch these scenes knowing the second time through that when Jon walks in on Catlyn making the dreamcatcher thing that the last time she made one was for him…Michelle Fairley really knocked it put of the park with all the emotions she conveyed simultaneously
For all its flaws later, it’s easy to remember why this show was so beloved when it began
With how good Michelle was, it absolutely kills me that we never got Lady Stoneheart.
@@saltmerchant749 She's such a great actress, she would've killed as Lady Stoneheart
Tyrion told Jon to wear the title of a Bastard as an armor, that way no one could hurt him
But the way Catelyn looks at Jon? No man can make a weapon more hurtful than those eyes
And thats why him going to the wall was the best thing for him. To own his title and not let him hurt him one bit. He was a proud snow. It still hurt tyrion when his father or sister would mention his dwarfism, but not Jon. He grew up and learned from peoples mistakes, he was on even ground at the wall and earned respect. Catelyn was wrong, but it resulted in the Current King Of The North( we dont count season 7&8)
If only people like Catelyn, Aemon or Allister Thorne knew who Jon really was
Thorne would’ve worshipped him man , aemon would feel relief, catelyn would feel like an idiot
@@Igothemunchiesi still have no idea why ned didnt tell her. she went to her grave thinking her husband was unfaithful
I think Aemon knew. He just couldn’t say anything.
@@azulchamoy people finding out that Jon was the son of Rhaegar would have put a target on his back , claiming Jon was just Neds bastard that he brought home from war didnt raise suspicion
@@azulchamoyCatelyn would have given Jon up eventually and Ned knew this. The only other person whom I think knew of his heritage is his uncle.
It's sad that their relationship is similar to how bastards suffer in real life, blamed for the sins of their parents, maybe more than their parents are blamed
in all honesty jon was a lucky bastard. born to a noble house with an honorable family stark. Everyone but Sansa and Catlyn was good to him. All his brothers, Arya and Nrd treated him like family even if he was a Snow.
@@wymg4480 Very true, but the lack of love from a parent can be extremely damaging. If he was just part of a lesser family, Catelyn's treatment would have been even harsher
@@MegaKnight2012 yeah i mean no doubt his life was still hard. seeing his other siblings gettin the love that he couldnt and not even knowing his real mother. Tyrion and him rly are similar. Both are "undesirable" to their family but luckily, they were born to great houses and fathers that didnt abandon them. Ned did so out of honor, love and duty to his sister. While Tywin, even with all his hate towards Tyrion, did so out of duty to the family and maybe even to his wife who died giving birth to Tyrion. They had tough lives but definitely wouldve been far worse if they were lesser houses or even commoners. Hell, Tyrion probably wouldve been killed off at infancy.
@@wymg4480 The morals of their fathers is extremely important. Jon has become a moral man, looking for peace and willing to sacrifice himself for others. Martin describes Tyrion as a villain, with Tyrion emulating crueler sides like his father.
I'm a dirty bastard and I've lived a normal struggling American life, not cause of being a bastard but being an American in these times
Man Caitlyn was pretty awful even by game of thrones standards. She's actually worse to jon in the books and actually tells him "i wish it was you fell from the tower".
Rationally if she was angry about a child that wasn't hers she would be treating Ned that way. Jon is quite literally the poster child for " sorry for being born, my bad"
indeed ,it's weird that she managed to forgive her husband, who is the guilty one of fathering a child from another woman, but pours all her hatred on the innocent child
She was lashing out at everyone in that moment. It wasn't just with Jon. He also treated Luwin the same way. And she was not angry to the fact that Ned fathered a bastard. What made her mad was the fact that Ned took the child North, when she arrived at Winterfell with Robb, Jon was already established there with her wet nurse.
@@fatmasibai4292 she understands that many men has bastards and it's common but she was always told "Ned Stark isn't like most men" and to have the living embodiment of her husband's infidelity around her is harsh. Plus Jon is described to have the stark features while Robb, Sansa and Bran had the auburn hair and Tully features
she wasnt perfect but still a good character
Catelyn was pretty terrible to Jon (and even she admits as such to Talisa) but she's a saint by Game of Thrones standards. Cersei (in the show) has all of Robert's bastards killed, and in the books, Catelyn's own father makes Lysa take an abortifacient after Baelish gets her pregnant (despite her wanting to keep the baby). And most noble men would not 'dishonor' their wife by keeping their bastard in their own house and raising him with his other children.
Catelyn Stark sure did raise great warriors of her sons and daughters.
For sure..
Her daughters are whores & brainless like Her. Especially Sansa. Stark Women are the worst charachters in all novels. Far worse from Jofrey, Cersei, Hightowers & All others Combined. I like the Red Wedding cause Catelyn died. But I would liked it more if Sansa was in the place of Robb.
Incorrect she is not Stark, as Sansa. They made a lot of damage to house of Stark.
She died never knowing his true identity 🤧
May she will meet jon in the books
I mean so did Jon
She will know in the books
Yes , as son of Ashara .
@@jimmykray9583what books ?
"I wish you fell out of that tower" With that line Catelyn went to far in the books
Crazy how Ned let Cat treat Jon like that. Bastard or not. Cat was out of line
The secret was too big to let out. But I agree that he should have told her to treat him better.
Jon was a real prince he was noble, strong and brave. Cately Stark was just a selfish spoiled woman. She only cared her own children and power. There was not even one single right decision she made. She deserved how she was ended up but Jon did not deserve. Whenever l see a video of this series damn l hate how it ended!
the woman who almost destroyed a family with a thousand year worth of legacy and the man who saved it.
People try so hard not to love, they just keep pushing the wrong way.
Catelyn doesn’t hate Jon because he was a bastard she hates him because of her inability to love him which is so so sad
in the books she doesnt like him because he looks ned more then her children
I need
Tbh, Ned not telling Cat was a good move. Even if Cat could keep a secret, it is likely someone else could have found out & snitched. Plus, given the Stark's high status, it would've only drawn more attention to them.
No doubt.
Why play the background music so loud to the point that you can't hear what's being said.
Poor Jon he must've lived a terrible life growing up💔😩
Only if cat knew the truth that hes lyanna and rhaegar's child maybe she would've handled him with care and love
Nah, she would have snitched the second someone made fun of her about Ned cheating on her
He didn’t have a horrible life, he had a life that he’ll always ask why!? Growing up a step child, you learn to adapt
I wonder how Catelyn would have handled things if she knew the truth.
She wouldve done something stupid
Like tell little finger
I find it funny how the term 'bastard' has changed over time. It meant one thing thousands of years ago and now it means something else entirely. I suppose it doesn't change when it comes to those ancient texts considering those laws will be relevant again.
Pretty sure its remained in meaning for at least 700 odd years, not sure what you mean man (meaning illegitimate child and used as a derogatory term)
@@g0oberdm417 Open a Strong's Concordance or check the multiple definitions online. Like I said, it had a different meaning when the most ancient texts were written. Changing the definitions of words is never an accident or organic.
@@Cuttingtorch Tbf its gone from a more generalised term (illegitimate meaning not lawful including resulting from incest) to more specifically referring to out of wedlock. I wouldn't say that's a stark change tbh
@@g0oberdm417 you're an idiot. Bastard now means asshole, thats what he's getting at
It means the same as it did back then, it’s just that it’s also used as a meaningless insult as most other cuss words are now. Bastard always meant illegitimate kids aka born out of wedlock
As much as Ned loved his wife and trusted her, there was one secret he did not tell her. Better he didn't, it was something she could use against him.
Catelyn is an idiot. She set the Kingslayer free. Jaime Lannister, the most valuable bargaining chip Robb Stark and the North could ever dream of having in their possession while Tywin and Cersei was alive. Catelyn lets him go on a ‘promise’.
If Catelyn would undermine her son Robb, the war of survival they were fighting, undermine the entire Northern army, and throw away their huge power play on the chance she might get Sansa and Arya back, just imagine what she would part with if the only bargaining chip she had acess to was the knowledge of the paternity secret of husband’s nephew.
Ned was right not to trust her with this secret. Jon's life would have been sold.
@@fr0ntend I think you're selling Catelyn far too short. Catelyn has made some very reckless choices - but her one consistent quality is that she would have done anything to protect the people she loves. If Catelyn knew Jon was her nephew, there's nothing in her character that indicates she would not have loved and protected him like one of her own children. She would not have used that information as a 'bargaining chip" - Catelyn has never shown to be cold or calculated when it comes to her family. Her decision to free Jaime (while done irresponsibly) was done with her belief that Arya, Bran and Rickon were all dead - and she was the only one thinking of the safety of one of her two surviving children. Even from a practical perspective - at that moment Sansa was heir to the North and Robb was fighting in a dangerous war, if anything happened to him the Lannisters now hold "the key to the North" as Tywin calls her. Catelyn's screw-up was not going through Robb to convince him to trade Jaime for Sansa (and not locking Robb in a chastity belt).
Fun fact if catelyn asked ned to make jon a stark at that point ned may have revealed her the truth, thus changing everything since there are many targaryen supporter in westeros and rob could have rallied them to his side with jon
Not that it excuses how she treated Jon, but she was married to Ned Stark, the most loyal, noble, pure man in Westeros whom everyone thought of as a man who would be his commitment before himself. So to return with a bastard could only mean two things for Catelyn; either he showed only a fake "good" personality, or that woman was more important to him than her. Unfortunately, she knew it wasn't a fake personality...
Originally Ned loved Arthur Dayn’s sister. Cate and others probably thought she was the mother. Cate felt like second choice.
Jon did not deserve such hatred
If Carleton had been more accepting of Jon he might not have gone off to the Nights Watch and been there to watch his half brother Robs back. Could have changed everything for the Starks.
Re-watching these scenes after knowing the ending made me feel anger on behalf of Jon AND Catelyn, because there's no doubt that if she knew the truth she would loved and protected Jon like one of her own children. Catelyn's treatment of Jon was terrible (and she even admits as such), but Ned lying to both of them for their entire lives and allowing them to go on resenting each other is the one stain against his honor. Catelyn was unwaveringly loyal to Ned for their entire marriage, there's no indication in her character that she would have ever leaked Jon's secret and was smart enough to know how to protect him. But Ned's paranoia prevented Jon from having a mother and Catelyn from having a relationship with her nephew - it's tragic all around.
Ned was suffering too, it's even surprising how he managed to maintain his honorable reputation after all that. It really showed how he deeply cared for his sister and the her dying promise. Jon's parentage was too risky. Imagine if he told Catelyn and she told Lysa and Lysa told Littlefinger. Jon would've been murdered.
It would have been interesting to see the two of them interact again in like season 6
In the books she is "undead" and ruthless. Not the same Catelyn. Jon is still dead at the wall. It would be interesting if it would be her to resurrect him. Lol (Lady Stoneheart)
I wonder if Benjen knew the truth.
I don’t think he did. After Lyanna’s death he left to the wall out of grief. Ned kept Jon’s secret very close
I think he did. And that might be the reason he decided going to the night's watch.
There is a pretty interesting theory about that. And I think he knew.
ruclips.net/video/Yy4YzTD0J50/видео.html
Here is the video if you want to watch it.
I think benjen knew some how the way he loved and protect that boy he knew he was the king
“But I went back on my promise to the gods because deep down…I’m an evil bitch…”
Found an incel
her hatred passed on to sansa .
absolutely
In books when jon says goodbye to bran catelyn said I wish it was you who fell from the tower🥺
Well shit 😂.
@@versatileduplicity9313 I almost cried when i read that part what did he do that she would wish him dead can't wait to see robert,s expression when he finds out that jon was actually the son of the woman he loved and that she didn't love him
catelyn stark by far, is one of the best characters in the work, both in the books and in the series. even with the world falling on her back, she didn't chicken out, she dealt with all misfortunes with courage, honor and resilience. Many hate her for the way she treats Jon Snow, as if we are all perfect, even she doesn't know the truth about Jon.
Take me with you when you go back 🤕
Sad that Allister Thorne was nicer to Jon Snow than Catelyn Stark ever was and Allister Thorne was a mean nasty prick who took part in Jon's murder. Poor Jon
Even allister Thorne would have been nicer to jon snow if he knew his real identity.
Because the reason Allister was sent to the wall was because he didn't surrender to tywin and Roberts army.
And was extremely loyal to rhaeghar.
I wish she was alive to see Jon become king in the north!
"All because i couldnt love a motherless child"
Ned could ve easily prevented this. All he needed to do was telling that Jon was an orphan child he found during the war and that he decided to adopt him. Also telling Cat in secret who Jon really is. This way Cat could ve loved Jon like a mother.
But instead he puts all of them into the most awkward situation...
Would form too many questions about his parentage and why Ned cared so much, he was Honorable but even someone like him wasn't just adopting children off the street when he could just as easily given him to another family in winter fell but to invite a supposedly lowborn child into his home and status without being blood? Would of caused prying eyes
Ned knew Tully women couldn't keep a secret. Once Sansa learned about Jon's true born name, she basically immediately told others after saying she wouldn't.
In the books he looks exactly like a stark.
YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED BY THE STARKS Jon Snow 😆
Lady Stoneheart
Did Ned got those nurses attending to Lyanna killed or exiled? I would have liked that the secret would have came out through one of the nurses and then whole another level of shit takes place, rather than sam simple telling you are Targeryan.
And that’s why the Seven Gods punished her at the end !
If only Ned told her who he was.
The greatest tragedy is that ned never got to tell her the truth. 😢
Ned should have told cat she wouldn’t have told Robert
Benjen seemed like he doesnt want Jon to join the nightwatch for a reason. Like Benjen knows Jon's true parents, but Ned didnt confirm it to him.
Ned Stark should have told Cat about Jons true heritage and she should have kept the secret. She wouldnt have been awful to him.
Sounded like a cow in heat
Catelyn was such an incredible character. So complicated and imperfect.
The actress is awesome too
More than anything I blame Ned tho, he could have told her
Doesn’t matter, there’s no excuse to be vile to a child.
If only she knew whar jon would come to be and how the siblings loved him
It would have been nice if Jon somehow met Cat when he died and they cleared the air before Jon got resurrected
But JÖN saves winterfell and became the KING of the NORTH without he wanted❤
Benjen loved his bastard nephew.....its the uncles that love the black sheep of the family.....they understand
I never understood why ned didnt tell her about the truth about jon, im sure she will keep the secret and wouldnt tell any one about it
If Ned Stark was more honest with his wife about the truth of Jon Snow's Origins maybe things would have been different
If my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle
Since Jon turned out to be a nice guy, I wonder who did mother him?
Probably Septa Mordane. Or any one of the septas at Winterfell.
The sad thing is, if Catelyn hasn't treated Jon so poorly (god forbid Ned trusted his wife enough to confide in her the truth behind Jon's parentage) he might not have felt pushed to join the Knight's Watch in the first place. Sure the 7 kingdom's may have eventually fallen to the whitewalkers without him, but had he been by Robb's side during his war they might’ve succeeded (or maybe Walder Frey/Roose Bolton would have stabbed him in the back along with Robb and Catelyn)?
Ah, if only the gods granted us all our wishes. Lucky for us, they don't. Without knowing it, Catelin Stark was forging the king that would save them all. Not a spoiled, rich, selfish king, like Joffrey or Daeneris, but a king that conquered hearts.
But he wasn’t the king in the end…
Daenerys wasn’t rich she was homeless the only thing she had was her name she had no land no gold nothing,and spoiled?Are we talking about the little girl that was abused by her brother and sold to a savage that raped her multiple times?And certainly her fighting for the injustices and freeing the slaves and punishing the slavers and saving the 7 kingdoms while seeing her dragon die was a selfish thing,what a joke
@@lies9029Y al final cometió genocidio matando inocentes a miles y quería hacerlo x todo el mundo si no se arrodillada.
I wonder how she would have reacted if Ned told her that’s his sisters baby. He didn’t need to tell who’s the father.
But she would have known it was Rhaegar
Except everyone would have known who the father was because that's the entire reason the war was started
To me Catelyn feels immense guilt about failing to love Jon, but she doesn’t know how to reconcile and can only push him away, although not as cruelly as in the books
Very unfair to the true born heir of westeros
Dragons were overthrown. Jon has no claim. Stannis then renly
i wish for their reunion in the books
can anyone explain why she wants jon to leave?
long time since i watched GoT
Because Jon was not her son,,Jon was a Bastard of her Husband.
He’s Ned’s bastard, and she is resentful that he looks more like Ned than his true born kids. At least in the books. In the show he’s Lyanna and Rhaegar’s son
@@jgamer2228 R+L=J is straight from George RR Martin.
She hates Jon because he's Ned's bastard
Ich fand ea immer schade das Catlyn Stark nie erfahren hat das ihr Ehemann sie nicht betrogen hat und das Jon Snow nicht der Bastard von Ned Stark ist.
Aber ich glaube wenn sie es erfahren hätte hätte sie mit dieser Schuld gar nicht leben können wenn sie sich schon so über Ihren Verrat wegen des
gebrochenen Versprechens geschämt hat.
She didn't hate him because he was a bastard. She hated him because despite her promises to the Gods, she found herself incapable of loving him. Its more a reflection of her own flaw.
For me they should let Robb marry Margaery Tyrell or Daenerys Targaaryen in secret
That's one of the main reasons why I never cared for her character was how terribly she treated Jon.
NED WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL CATELYN THE TRUTH??????????
She treats him much worse in the books
Still don't know why Nedd didn't said Catelyn about Jon,she would kept that secret and be way more generous towards him
And that my friend is why he didn’t tell her. The way she treated Jon is what made it believable.
Because he believed Catelyn's treatment would help sell his bastard status, but it's also possible that Ned held a grudge against the Targaryens for what they did to his family, including his sister, and maybe deep down, he wanted the Targaryen line to end without them reclaiming the throne, so he told so few that Jon was really a Targaryen.
@@MegaKnight2012 best explanation I've read. I believed obviously cat married Ned because his brother died. So the real love they never shared and didn't want to tell the truth. So he never had the 100 percent trust of her.
Since when did the women are capable of keeping secret?
@@danielramirezjr.9285 It actually seems that Ned and Cat genuinely fell in love after their arranged marriage, which wasn't too uncommon in arranged marriages.
So she begged Ned to make him a stark, but Ned didnt do it because why? Ned had issues not standing up for Jons mistreatment growing up. Like he knows the truth yet never once corrected catelyn from what we saw. Sad
She never wanted him to be a Stark, she never wanted him to be Robb's heir and legitimize him as a Stark. Ned never told Catelyn about his parentage because it would endanger him. If Robert found out Rhaegar had a kid with the woman he was obsessed with, he'd probably go nuts and grab his warhammer. I see your point on him and Jon's mistreatment, but Ned really did love Jon and tried to keep him by his side
Sh told herself that she would beg him to do it but she literally follows up saying she couldn’t keep her promise, meaning she never begged him to make him a Stark. After Jon survived Cat continued to neglect him, and usually it was when Ned wasn’t around to correct her. You can see that in the scene where Jon says goodbye to Bran, Cat is being a bitch to him until Ned walks in behind them and it ends
@@josephstalin2606Cat didn’t neglected him because he wasn’t her son!!!Plus they are a rich family and they used to have women around to raise the kids and I’m sure Jon had some so weird that some of you want to force a woman to love her husband’s bastard
@@lies9029 Nobody said that but it also doesn’t excuse her behavior towards him, she should be angry at her husband not the child that was the victim of circumstance. She doesn’t have to love Jon but she didn’t have to be so cruel to him either especially in the books. It’s not hard to comprehend that her “anger” should’ve been pointed at Ned as he’s the one that “betrayed” her and brought a kid home, Jon had no say in that
@@josephstalin2606 Ye you say that every time u complain about the way she treated him which wasn’t bad it was just indifference and the thing is Jon didn’t even mind it at least in the books he understood the only thing time she mistreated him was when she didn’t eat sleep for days waiting for her son to not die and Jon understood she was hurt and that’s why she said those words
Was Jon brought back to life from his sickness because she prayed??
Anyone else find it ironic that Alliser Thorne was nicer to Jon then catelyn was?
Ned not telling Catelyn the truth makes little sense.
Ned Stark swore to tell no one. The secret lives with him and dies with. And seeing how Cat let Jaime escape, yeah Ned was right to not reveal Jon's identity
Then as soon as Sansa finds out she spreads it straight away making neds secret all these years pointless
@@MindfulnessGamer Ned stark swore it , not Sansa. And there was no immediate threat now that they were already at war anyway. Context is important
@@6pathuser344 sansa swore it too
@@MindfulnessGamer that's because there was the threat of king robert, who would've killed jon had he known. there was obviously no use keeping a secret if the danger is not there, that's why sansa spreads it. ned would've unveiled the secret had it not been for robert's rage
honestly, I never got, why Ned didn't tell her the truth
Ned didn't tell the truth, because if Robert Knew that the boy was a Targaryen,,he would have killed Jon.
@@filmyflix I said tell "her" the truth. Very obviously, no one else and at the least one Robert could know.
Ned knew she'd tell someone...
Simple reason it's not because he didn't trust cat
He did telling her wouldve made life easier for both ned and Jon and the whole family
It's because he promised his dying sister he wouldn't when she asked.
That's why he didn't
Ned is about honour duty etc..
So it would be out of character to spill the secert
@@thetomster7625 too risky
I hated her and I don’t hate anyone hood thing she just a character
Loving all the woke fake pretentious comments here 😂 Hypocrites
Jon was an idiot. Happy it somewhat worked out for him but if all that didn't transpire Jon would've had himself stuck in a penial colony for the rest of his life having never experienced any of the joys of being a free man would be.
I think Jon prefers living as a member of the Night's Watch if that means all his family lives happily until they are old.
I wholeheartedly wanted to love Catelyn but she awful with Jon
Worst Aunt ever.....
I didn't like her whole book. In the show I didn't like her even more.
Jom snow the greatest but recognition zero
Catelyn Tully and Sansa (she is not Stark, come one) are ones of the worst characters in the show. Even last 2 sh*t seasons can't break the fact, that Sansa just narcissistic hypocrite.( nothing bad about the actress, they played their characters amazing)
my wishful guess is in the books, Benjen knows about Jon's heritage.