I'm a modder and spent thousands of hours with all the tools in Fallout 3, 4, NV and Skyrim. 1. There is theoretically nothing wrong with updating a software forever, look at Photoshop (just talking about the technical side. Adobe got as predatory as Todd with Toddcrap 76). 2. No, Bethesda didn't do the best they could to simplify their tools for modding. They couldn't even write a decent documentation for it and without tools from the community, you couldn't create a mod like Fallout London. 3. Modding is niche, most players don't use mods at all, even on PC. Toddthesdda wants it to become popular now, as paid mods, aka creations. With the new term, they want to unlink "paid" and "mod" because that sounds evil. 4. I don't give a shit anymore which engine they will use for their new products. And I don't give a shit about modders releasing mods for money on a Bethesda platform, they became game developers and aren't a part of the community. I don't even give a shit about modders helping Bethesda to fix their rotten products after Fallout 4 for free anymore. BTW: I'm sitting in front of XEdit and Fallout London, trying to port some of my own mods.
Thanks for the comment it’s really interesting to hear about it. I remember when they made starfield they said it would be a modders paradise. Also as if saying, we left the 1000 planets completely empty so the modders can fill it all in and finish the game! Then we can charge and take a cut! Or, you can play it as it is. It’ll be the same dungeons and planets everywhere you go! To me, it just seems to be disappointing from Bethesda. It would almost disappointing if modders managed to save starfield as that would almost reward Bethesda for not doing the work early. It would also justify their decisions and maybe we’d see more blank world maps from them, if that makes sense?
@@AVVGaming1 It looks like they created 1000 empty planets as plots for modding. But it's just because creating 1000 planets doesn't give you more work than 500 or 50 when it's procedurally generated. They counted with modding, but also with something like a Bethesda magic: Just throw enough things into a game, and it will be good. It just doesn't work. Some people may think that modding is just about jiggling physics and cheating, but it isn't. A game needs to be decent enough to inspire modders. You can see it with Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Modding for Fallout 4 is practically dead, but in Skyrim it's still alive because it's objectively the better game which can be played without mods. Starfield (and Toddwater 76) doesn't deserve to be modded, and Bethesda doesn't deserve the help of modders anymore. In the end, I'm a customer too, and I do have my principles. I don't want to make Bethesda's game playable anymore because I don't like them anymore. Their bubble needs to pop, or you will get a Toddfield with swords.
@@jamesmeldrum4563 It's dead compared to Skyrim, an older game than Fallout 4. I do have 4000 hours in Fallout 4, and I've installed it several times again since release day. And it was never like Skyrim where I wanted to make a fresh install, because whole new systems appeared. I just could restore my backups.
@@PixelMurder Yeah, comparing the Fallout 4 modding scene to Skyrim doesn't make the overall picture bleak. What is bleak however is the Starfield modding scene which get's beaten by Fallout 4 on a daily basis.
Sales wise, yes. It helps them greatly. Perception wise, no. People see what modders can do and wonder why BGS can't meet or exceed them, and frankly it's a good question. They seem to have lost the magic they once had. I used to make mods for their games quite a lot. There's nothing wrong with the underlying engine. Engines aren't a single thing. They encompass different things that can be switched out like physics and graphics. The underlying engine they have is fine and allows a massive amount of freedom in what can be done. People that complain about it usually don't understand how engines work. They could at any time switch out anything they weren't happy with (before development started of course). You're 100% right that whatever is going on is due to the decisions they make and not some underlying issue with their tech.
Yes, and comparing it to a game like RDR2 or cyberpunk 2077. Those two games utilise a lot of motion capture. Can that be done with the creation engine like you said? Or would they need a change? I mean either way, Bethesda’s main problem is with its latest design in writing, quest design, world building and more. They have to look at themselves first for sure.
@@AVVGaming1 Yeah, they could definitely do that. They change the animation system quite often. I remember back when Skyrim launched we had issues getting new animations into the game because they had switched to a new proprietary animation system they had licensed from someone else (I think it was Havok). Eventually a very talented modder figured it out and from then on we could add any animations we wanted to the game. The bad animations are due to them either not having the talent to make them good (unlikely) or not wanting to spend the resources needed to bring them up to modern standards.
You are right, mods have done some incredible things that are in many cases far better than the base game. But again we are trashing Bethesda for every bug they didn't fix for their game while we ignore the same for mod projects. Take a look at Fallout London, it's a great project, it's almost a new game, but it has a lot of crashing issues, i enjoy it through them, some have more some less but the issue is there. Imagine if fallout london was an official Bethesda release, imagine the outrage. They have to limit themselves in order to make a game stable. Like horses in skyrim, imagine if there are a lot of files in vanilla game about horse riding and no horses, some modder would make a horse mod, put it out, people would download it and say how come bethesda didn't make this, while ignoring the textures that haven't loaded properly. They have to make those things work and we don't give them the same room for the error that we give modders.
I agree and they fought back to every criticism saying that the fans were wrong. That is the bigger of the problems. It’s not the engine, it’s what they made with it, and what they didn’t make.
People really need to get over this misconception that the engine is somehow holding bethesda games back, its not. Bethesda is holding the _engine_ back. All you need to do is take a look around at the modding scene for their games and you can clearly see the engine is extremely versatile, and you can get a lot done with it, provided you have the skills and creativity to make the most of it. And this is all without having access to the core engine code itself. Mod authors are stuck using third party software in order to add new scripting or engine functions into the games. Bethesda on the other hand has the ability to completely rewrite the engine to add any new features or improvements they want. Sadly, bethesda in recent years has largely not changed how they go about game development and hasent invested the time and energy needed to really push the engine forward, and as a studio, Bethesda has creatively stagnated. They keep trying to copy features or mechanics from other franchises, rather then building upon the framework they themselves put forward nearly 20 years ago. Large, open world rpgs, with tons of unique characters, locations and lots of sandbox gameplay opportunity's is what bethesda is known for, yet in recent years they seam hellbent on straying away from this kind of gameplay and instead trying to make their games more action oriented or cinematic, when they dont have the creativity needed to pull off a good experience. The fact of the mater is, the problems with bethesda games wont change or go away until and unless bethesda themselves change, and reorient themselves back to making the types of experiences fans came to know them for.
Yes and I think that’s what my final point was. It’s not so much the engine as it is the actual games they’re making. I mean when I see some of those mods, it beggars belief. It makes you wonder why they can make such varied gameplay, yet Bethesda are unable to do that. It’s a shame because their writing and open worlds are just becoming a bit bland. They should honestly consider bringing in some of those modders to help them with their games! Some fresh ideas might help!
I'm also tired of hearing that same argument about how Bethesda should ditch their tools, they have a problem of writing shit stories and making bad game decisions, and despite how Unreal Engine 5 looks and is powerful, it can´t fix shit stories and bad game decisions.
There’s just too much to do and nobody there to try it. I have tried playing starfield a few times and it’s just not good. It’s boring is the problem. The problems are too deep now. Skyrim was a good game. You probably had a good time the first time playing it and mods gave you a reason to return. Rihht now the first time in starfield is Miles from a good time.
@@AVVGaming1Respectfully, I have to disagree with both of you.. for me, I haven't really had much of a chance to play starfield.. I've only been watching it through some of my favorite RUclipsrs.. Gopher, Mental Fox and Lyle Shnub... And it's been one hell of a ride, starfield to me is not boring.. perhaps you haven't really given it much of a chance.. I can agree that there are some aspects that are "boring", but this game is far from boring. I don't know if you even had a chance to try the quest "Operation Starseed".. that was entertainment all in its own.. and pretty damn creative, so was the ryujin quest arc... I found quite a bit of this game rather entertaining.. maybe it's not for everybody just like fallout isn't for me. Somebody did recommend New Vegas but I'm just going to watch it, for now. I will agree that Skyrim does get boring after a while, without mods.. I probably would have stopped playing it.. in fact I did. But the thousand Year Itch, kind of came and crept in and I found myself playing it for another year.. and even tried some quest mods that added hundreds of hours of content. So yes.. are mods good for Bethesda.. are they helping Bethesda.. we can't say for certain, but I think Todd is paying close attention.. and he has mentioned it in quite a few podcasts, and interviews.. he says that the modding community is something that is heavily relied on, but he says that he's tried several of them (mods) and enjoys them, I feel like they're getting a lot of their inspiration from the modding community.. and I feel like without mods.. everything would be kind of just standing still. And I'm grateful for the modding community.. I mean I only discovered the modding community about maybe 3 years ago.. when all the sudden the option popped up on the screen on Skyrim.. I was able to hop on there and check out additional content that was free.. and when it loaded up, it made Skyrim a whole different place.. with the selection I had. Just give starfield a chance.. I mean really go and be the explorer you're supposed to be.. I mean there are some strange and weird missions, people, and places that you probably haven't explored yet.. give it a shot.
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim is not a good game. None of the Bethesda games are good games. They might be fun, but they aren't good. They're like McNuggets. You know it's bad for you, but god damn aren't they tasty as all hell. _I know I'm eating cancer biscuits, but I don't care!_
it's also good to remember that even if they change the game engine, the first new game they make with the new engine wouldn't necessarily be better than the previous ones... it takes time, practice and experience to use the new game engine to achieve the best possible result. the first new game with the new engine might be just as buggy or even more buggy than the previous ones. for example, Bioware and Anthem / mass effect Andromeda, Bioware changed the game engine and with relatively catastrophic consequences. + you don't always have to change the game engine, even updating the existing one can do wonders. and if you change enough game engine parts, we'll have a Ship of Theseus conversation. As for Bethesda games, they have a difficult balance when it comes to making them. you can't focus too much on one thing or other parts will suffer, Bethesda games have to be a little bit of everything for that freedom to be real. some complain that Bethesda games are "wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle", that's an exaggeration of course. but even if they were, they wouldn't be as popular if they only focused on one thing or mechanic over everything else at the expense of all other mechanics. it's kind of a reverse assassin's creed problem where those games have focused too little on assassination lately, Bethesda's games can't focus on one thing too much. there are so many different ways to play Skyrim... if they were to focus in the next game on just assassinating or just stealing or just magic at the expense of all the other playstyle possibilities the game would suffer. + some games are easier to mod, in the sense that the best moddable games are those whose existing systems can be improved or deepened or to which new systems or areas can be added. Basically, Bethesda games are sandbox games with RPG elements and interesting lore. I like starfield myself, but I understand why it's not for everyone. in a way, Bethesda was doomed because space games are not easy to make, especially not based on Bethesda's game design.
Yes and that’s the thing, if they change the engine then they are back to square one and mod compatibility would be gone. To start with a new engine would also re introduce the bugs like you said. Starfield was not my cup of tea, but it definitely had the least bugs I’ve seen in a new Bethesda game, showing that even if the engine has limitations, the studio are very competent with it now. I think they should stick with what they know and just look at starfield reviews and take on the feedback. The majority of people aren’t complaining about the engine, it’s different aspects and they can work on those.
The big problem with BGS games now is that they've turned the modding community into their own personal QA and QC team they not only do they not have to pay, but *_stand to profit off of._* In that regard, they're no longer selling a game, but instead something like a membership-liscense thing.
And that’s how starfield felt. It felt like they purposely left the planets empty for the modders to come in and fill it all in. Like a project that’d be built by others but they’d cash in. I find it lazy but either way, if people don’t play it, then there’s no one to buy or download the mods. The game has to be good first in order for it all to work in my personal opinion
@@AVVGaming1 Something I do is jot down a pipe dream of what I would like TES6 to have and to be. But the overarching thesis I've been using for it is simple: make it good enough to not NEED to mod. Even after the shine has looooong since worn off and BGS's constant rereleasing the game has become a joke, part of why Skyrim is the golden goose of the company's lifetime is because it was good enough to not need to mod. It's easy to forget, but of the 3.4M copies sold in the first 2 days, 59% were on XB360, 27% on PS3, and 14% on PC.
@@humrH2360 absolutely! Make the game Good enough that it actually doesn’t need mods and then mods are just like bonuses! Skyrim may have over 70k mods now but the game itself was brilliant when it came out! It scored 9/10 across the board! They need the game to be at least to a good level first and then it will be a success with mods as well.
Question that should be asked is: 'are paid mods helping bethesda?', shoving down your throat something objectfly expensive and something that should have been already in the game. Using "helping modders" as shield when someone says something negative.
It is not the engine and I am an official Nexus mod author. Mods help BGS sell the game because people know the mods will come... use to know. BGS just killed that. We have had mods that eliminate load screens for Skyrim. You can enter the cities with no load screen. Starfield, you can jet pack off the balcony of your apartment in New Atlantis. You can avoid the load screen altogether. BGS just uses them. But BGS used Starfield as a cash grab. Big open, empty space and they can sell mods created to fill it. Even BGS sells BGS "creation" content for you to BUY and fill up the empty $70 game they sold you. BGS = Because Greed Sucks.
This comment! That’s exactly how I feel! It’s not the engine, it’s Bethesda not making the game up to standard and the fact the world is empty, it’s so wrong to then ask modders to fill it in! It’s just so lazy and from what people like yourself have told me, creation engine has no limits but Bethesda are making the games simple. They have also dropped quality in writing as well. It’s so naughty when you think about it.
@@AVVGaming1 none of Bethesda’s games have as many mods as Skyrim. Still, 8k mods and climbing in less than a year after release is pretty impressive. It already has more mods than most games in existence. I could see it reaching current fallout 4 numbers in the course of its lifetime. Skyrim (special edition) on nexus has over 93k mods. Fallout 4 has 61k on nexus and given that these games are, what, 13 and 9 years old respectively, then I think Starfield is on pretty good track. And I mean, I’ve had a blast coming back to the game with mods, but I enjoyed Starfield immensely when it came out as well. Moreso when I came back though and I had expectations for what it is and what it isn’t. Sure, I think mods can make the game more how I want it to be, but it’s to personal taste. Space games are pretty niche in general though. Most of them I don’t like, but this one I played for 300 ish hours so it was a game that jived with me. I also think in a few years Starfield is going to be looked at under a less harsh light. When cyberpunk came out *everyone* shit on the game, especially that Luke Stephens dork made a 4 hour critique on how bad everything is, and now that same dork praises everything about it like that 4 hour critique doesn’t exist. I always thought it was a good game, and I think Starfield is a good game too. Give it a few years, maybe you’ll come back to it and beyond the disappointment you have for it now, maybe you’ll end up enjoying it a lot more with expectations set. Maybe after shattered space comes out, you can revisit the game and view the landscape before calling (or implying) it is a dead game. We have a lot of Bethesda games going on at once, like FO76 and the new mod Fallout London. 9 thousand concurrent players is still better than many other, actually, dead games, haha
Modder here. I think your points are very valid. Im obviously biased towards the creation engine, and the Nexus and Creation numbers back me up on this one, since no other studio has garnered such a colossal community and mod output. I dont think Bethesda needs to "evolve" their formula drastically at the cost of this joint effort between studio and community to flesh out these games as much as they can. I will say that in starfield's case, the main issue really comes down to a certain type of blandness that permeates the entire experience. Features wise we already have brilliant mods that address or are actively addressing the most contentious gameplay aspects, to the point my modded starfield is already my most complex and rich bethesda game features wise, all in less than a year from the release of the Creation Kit. However, you really must be invested in this setting and I dont think it struck a chord wiyh many people, specially with what they had to put up with the vanilla gameplay experience at launch. It took me building my load order to really appreciate the game that was underneath properly, and even then it's not what I'd define as a really engaging setting.
Thanks for the comment! My biggest issue with the game was the planets. As opposed to hand crafted ones they were all procedural generated. So if I explore Skyrim and see a dungeon pop up, I can go there, knowing I will be rewarded with something unique. It will be a new experience. Might find a quest etc. with starfield I found that I would run into repeats a lot. My time was no longer guaranteed to be worth it. It felt like work after a while. But, with mods, you could technically fix that rihht? Obviously it would be time consuming but you could essentially make a grid with hand crafted dungeons and every inch of the map unique. Is that possible or will it always be random?
@@AVVGaming1 yup, we have some ongoing projects addressing these aspects. The community even created a framework to add new poi's or to create variations on existing poi's (procedurally or by hand, think like the outposts and ships in mass effect 1), and there's even a mod that randomizes several aspects of the encounters in the poi's to make every incursion different from the previous. It's an ongoing development which I find very interesting. We dont have that many mods as of now but the idea is that eventually there will be much more.
@@marconihimself see that in my opinion could change the entire game. That was the main problem with the game. I know people will say the loading screens, the fact you can’t travel freely through space etc. but I’d say the two main issues were the one I have discussed with you, and then the writing. But there’s nothing that can be done about that. If the modders went and committed fully to what you’re discussing there I could easily see a huge return to form for the game! It’s crazy how people like yourself can see this stuff immediately though and get Bethesda can’t?
@@AVVGaming1 bethesda is a weird company, theyre simultaneously one of the companies that most engages with their community and one of the most dismissives of the community lol. And yeah, I dont mind loading screens really, specially because now I have a system for fuel, batteries, a complete overhaul of the balancing to make the gameplay more realistic, a proper sustenance / needs system, a tougher economy / research system etc etc. There's also a modder that goes by agd25 that's reworking the placement of temples, anomalies and outposts to make these poi's only spawn in places that makes sense, or even removing all temples and anomalies besides the first one in a way that fits with the main quest (and makes more sense).
@@marconihimself that’s what I feel too! On one hand, no other company others such access with mods. On the other hand, they don’t really assist if someone asks for help lol it’s so strange. That sounds like you’ve got starfield rocking now! Thanks for your comments too I leanddd a lot!
And that’s the thing, it’s basically open to anything right? It can literally be converted to do anything with another work? I feel like maybe it’s Bethesda aren’t making the most of it? Some mods I’ve seen for Skyrim are literally entirely different games
As usual I agree with everything you said. Personal take? I don't want them to switch engines. Modding is the essence of Bethesda. It is infinitely difficult to introduce mods like they do here in the Unreal Engine. From what I understand, your imagination is your limit as a modder in Creation Engine. Proof is in the mods. If you dream of a mod, you should probably use the search bar and see it already being made.
Thank you and good to see you again! That’s my take too. I wouldn’t Change it either and from what other modders have told me, the sky is literally the limit with the engine. It can do anything! So in reality, if a game has limited ambition or poor writing etc that’s Bethesda not the engine. I think Bethesda should stick the engine, and just focus on making the next game the best that it can be! Back to hand crafted worlds for us to explore! Plus dungeons! Lmfao
@@AVVGaming1 I can only imagine the glee on your face if Elder Scrolls 6 has over 300 handcrafted dungeons! You should do a channel giveaway in celebration xD
Imo the most natural progession for an engine Change is right at their door step it's ID Softwares ID Tech 7, which btw recently also released Modding tools for Doom Eternal, which look pretty damn powerful as well. But like I said above, there seems to be fundamental problems at the studio which have nothing to do with just the eingine. Microsoft needs to sort this shit out, to be blunt.
The problems have been around for a while but what’s worse is that the problems are not the same as they were before. They are getting worse and worse. It’s been in free cal for a while and it’s such a shame considering Bethesda were THE company setting the standards back in those days. saw your other comment and going to check out that interview you spoke about.
@@AVVGaming1 I watched a stream commenting on it now. And it got even worse. From the points that got brought up. Looking forward to your take on it. :O
Serious cracks started showing when fallout 4 released & its slowly gotten worse and worse with every release. I have no faith in them to continue making the experiences I enjoyed as a kid
It’s just showing its limitations now. Mods have added to the experience though. I think they find themselves at a difficult crossroads and it’s tough to decide their next steps. The engine has been pushed as far as it can go surely?
Another things about modders, most mod games they play because they love the games they mod -- that is what gets someone into modding a particular game. I've never modded a Bethesda game, but have creates some popular mods for Minecraft, all mostly so I could play with them, and when I stopped playing a lot of Minecraft I became much less motivated to mod it. If you aren't attracting or maintaining players, you probably attracting modders.
It’s awesome to get a comment from someone with modding experience! I totally Agee with what you’re saying, it’s all about having passion to put in the mods but you’ve got to be enjoying the game and seeing the potential of others enjoying your work for it to make sense. A lot of BGS modders who worked on Skyrim etc have said they won’t do it for starfield and I’m assuming it’s for that same reason.
creation engine 2 is a massive upgrade. as someone who have modded their games for over a decade now. the new engine is a lot more capable. a lot of the issues i had to get so many mods to remove i no longer have to. and it runs so much more stable on my old card. ive always had a theory that the people making the engine are good workers, and the people making the games are bad ones. cause nearly all the issues thats blamed on the engine stems from how they make games, its why we could mod out nearly all the issues. Also theyve litterally hired the best modders, over the years. Andnow that modders can get paid they can make small dev teams who put out an insanely large projects for less than what any AAA studio can put out.... btw if you dont believe me on the latter. just look up skyrims new mod from Kinggath which is packed with content, good content and theyve even hired OG voice actors. "Bards college expansion" and similar DLC sized mods is what we will start to see more of in the future now that modders finally can get paid. they also work somewhat with bethesda(modders own words, not mine) Edit: the hate campaign of bethesda is the reason why most people got no clue what the actual issues are. its like a crowd that lashes out at everything in an irrational way and misses the actual issues. im also not saying they dont deserve any hate, nor that they have no flaws, cause they do
@@comyxcon4gaming860 would take years to make a new engine from the ground up and years more to sort out all its issues so unless you wanna wait till 2045 for Fallout 5 that is not a great idea
I think Todd might need to take a step back himself anyway. He’s the one who pushed so hard for starfield and we could all really do with BGs getting back on track. He needs to open the floor to new ideas now.
The Creation Engine is a fickle issue, if you look at it's Free Open Source Software counterpart known as OpenMW, The engine can do so much more if given the proper optimization. But that is where the issues come in, No one except Bethesda has the source code for the engine, so any engine levels bugs and quirks are really difficult to fix.
Yes and that is what I have generally come to the conclusion as. It’s not the engine that’s the problem as the engine can probably do anything. It’s Bethesda that are the ones who are holding it back with their lack of innovation. It’s crazy because they were the kings of that and now they haven’t introduced anything new in years. They need to basically redo Skyrim, in another land but bring it up to today’s standards! Thanks for the post and sharing!
Thank you so much! Really glad you are enjoying the videos and so glad to get a comment like this! It really means the world and lets me know I’m moving in the right direction. If you ever have any feedback on any video, even if constructive/negative please don’t hesitate to let me know. I hope through everyone’s feedback I can continue to improve and make videos better as I go! Again, thank you for the kind words!
I do believe it will highlight how a small team of volunteers can compete or maybe even make a better game than Bethesda. I actually did a video asking if they sabotaged the London release but doing that update. As in, did they not want London to outshine their own game after the release of the fallout show? We will never know but it’s great that mods like that can exist.
@AVVGaming1 The fact that Bethesda greenlit a Gallout TV show, but didn't care to have anything "nee" of note to release with it wil go down as one of the all-time great missed-oppprtunities in Video Game Marketing. Couldn't just let FOLON steal their limelight.
@@devobronc I don’t know why they missed that opportunity! It seems like starfield has really knocked them off course. The Bethesda that I knew back in the day would have definitely added new content. Nowadays they just seem to re package mods built by others
Damn man, never thought about it that way, but its a reallt interesting point of view... I am not a modder and have no knowledge of making mods... but you could be terribly right, making the game more accesible to mod, and open could actually be holding them back as they are always reiterating on the engine, if anything for modding sake.... and not for the games sake.
@@luissosa320 thank you. It’s a really tough one because on one hand you have the fact the engine is showing its age, limiting how much potential Bethesda can reach and that is now more apparent than ever. But, this same engine has modders who know it’s ins and outs, and the most accessible way to make mods with it. To change it, would be a huge risk, which could either result in a huge boost to the studio, or be the final nail in the coffin. It’s incredibly tough.
I would also like to point out that you dont need Creation Engine to have mods. Yes, they would have to make new mod tools. Yes, modders would have learn them. But at this point I think it would be the better choice to take the plunge and growing pains now to give themselves a better future. Kinda like CD Project Red is now working hard on their branch of UE 5 so they have easier time doing their job eventually.
Yes we’ve seen CDPR making moves to enter the modding arena and other games as well. I think the creation engine and kit was great for Skyrim and fallout 4. But they’ve had now since, what, 2003? I think it’s time to make a move and implement something new. We are ready for something a little different now!
If it weren't for modders, everyone would have stopped playing "Oblivion" or "Fallout 3" after a year. Mods make a huge difference in extending a games replay-ability. Also, mods can fix game play issues that Bethesda can't or won't fix themselves, because let's face it: Bethesda has a big problem with making its customers be beta-testers for their products.
Yes so let’s say they switch engine with no chance of mods for a while. Those bugs are now game breaking as opposed to being able to be fixed. As old as the engine is now, Bethesda have really used their modding community to help their games. I played starfield and encountered about 5 quest breaking quests early on. So frustrating and Bethesda don’t tend to fix this stuff quickly
I'm not a modder and I don't know what makes this engine so good for modders. But I wonder, is it not possible for Bethesda to make a new in house engine, build it from the ground up, better in ever way! And I mean truly better not slap a 2 on it and call it a day, but with the same modder friendliness as the creation engine? I mean that would be the best of both worlds right.
Basically there are bunch of good modding tools available, both built in and community made. Making a new engine will take a lot of time and money with little profit, requiring a lot of specific experts they probably don't have on staff, and is a big risk, in case it sucks. Like I am talking 10 million dollars and 5-ish years minimum, but realistically like 100 million and 10-ish years if you want it to be good. Half life 2 engine took 5 years and 40 million dollars as an example. That said, with a new engine you loose 20 years of ongoing development and community support and tools. Witch is big. And thats not considering the risk of doing stupid things and making it bad. Cause you know they spent like 20+ years on the current engine, and it barely works. Imagine that but with always online cloud based infrastructure, and 20 less years of bugfixes.
@@mapu1 Ah I see, yeah that sounds like a major headache. I did know that making a new engine was a hard, time consuming and expensive job, but I had no idea it was this much of a big deal. Thanks for the info.
Hey there again! I think from what I’ve gathered, it’s not so much the engine as it is the work from Bethesda. It appears that the engine can do almost anything, according to modders, but Bethesda are not doing much with it, at least recently. It’s amazing how many people have experience in this! Have you played fallout London yet btw?
@@AVVGaming1 I'm having some trouble getting Fallout London to work, and I've been pretty busy for the last few weeks so I haven't had much time to trouble shoot yet. But once I have the time I'm playing the heck out of that game.
@@TheMysterieRPGguy hahah I’m the same! Just waiting to find the time. It’s crazy what they’ve made! Pure dedication. I’ve not forgotten what we said about the ES2 either!
Bethesda relying on The Creation Engine is not gonna help them in the long run as far as technology goes in terms of new and exciting experiences that other games will provide in the future and if they really want to recapture what made their games so special and unique, they must also evolve not only from a gameplay, design philosophy, and storytelling aspect, but from a technological leap one as well.
I’m inclined to agree. It may set them back on mods but surely they could add that in later. Either way, creation engine or not, if they don’t release another game that captures the attention of fans then they won’t need to worry about the mods. No matter what option they choose, their next game has to be as close to a masterpiece as possible. If not, they will struggle to recapture their audience. As of now they have lost a lot of their fans trust, but they still have some waiting for thst next elder scrolls. But one more mistake and I doubt they’ll stick around to wait for the next one.
The talent, the people who made Bethesda great, they are gone... The people who wrote the Lore for The Elder Scrolls, they are gone... The people they have writing now are talentless hacks... To start to address the problem BGS would have to fire ALL of the writers and hire new writers who can actually write and care about The Elder Scrolls... If the story of Starfield was as good as Morrowind would be talking about loading screens, I don't think so... The combat in Bethesda games has always been dogshit, but no one cared because they made worlds you wanted to get lost in, and they crafted Lore for those worlds that made them feel like places that could really exist... That was the magic, and it's gone now, if they want it back they have to start with the writing. I still remember the story of Daggoth Ur, Sotha Sil and Vivec, the nerevar the sixth house and the battle of red mountain... More than 20 years later and I still remember it, not all the details, but at least the broad strokes... CUZ THE STORY OF MORROWIND WAS REALLY FUCKIN GOOD. Ya know what I remember about Fallout 4... How laughably bad its story was...
You’re spot on. It’s a Bethesda problem. The engine is dated granted, but the problem is deeper than that. It’s deeper than just a starfield problem really. It appeared a little from morrowind to oblivion, then more in Skyrim, then a lot more in fo4, even more in fo76 and so on. The changes they have made have gotten worse and the writing is the one thing that needs the most attention. It could be on unreal engine, creation engine or on a comic strip, it doesn’t matter because boring bad writing will still be the same regardless. They need to look inside and replace some people. Because if they don’t up their writing, they’re not making a come back. And their world building has usually always been good. The fact they abandoned that in starfield is the craziest thing. It really needs sorting. Great comment!
When Fallout 4 came out, the editor was delayed - was it a year, two, three? can't remember. I remember they claimed that it was the same editor that the devs had to use to make the game. This seemed off. If it really was the same, why was it delayed for a long time? It should have been ready before the game was finished. The editor seemed poor compared to other equivalents, and if the devs have to use it, I can see why there are so many problems. There's still a lot of things that are easier to do in the FO4edit program that a modder created. And the game is just so unstable that modders have been straining ever since launch to find a solution. Bethesda, as far as I am aware, has never really looked at debugging their code. You still see the same awful bugs as on release. I remember submitting reports, being told no-one else is getting them so they are closed without investigation, then I would read others getting the same bugs year after year. Wow, it's now a decade later come to think of it. They have the revenue from fo4 sales to fix problems, they just choose never to do it. Fallout London is amazing, but it crashes like crazy, and the reason is they are taking this shack built on a swamp, and trying to build a castle, and it then sinks into the bog. Bethesda's laziness meant they released Starfield assuming the bugs had gone away, when all that had happened was that modders had improvised fixes. FO76 was even showing the same bugs that occurred in the very earliest bethesda games - they had forgotten they were even there, because they saw modders as a part of the furniture.
I just wonder, you look at the team at FOLON who have dedicated so much time into it. Literally built an entirely new game. Then things like that happen, their mod suffers for something not their fault, they don’t get any support, I mean I give them full credit because that would frustrate me. I just think Bethesda need to give their modders all the help they can because as of right now they have the best mod community. But alls it takes is another big hitting game to come along and offer something just as good if not better and it could all fall apart for Bethesda
Saying that the current creation engine is the same as Gamebryo is the same as saying that Unreal 5 is the same as Unreal 1 from 1999. If the engine was the same, you would be able to take the assets and scripts from Morrowind and put them on Skyrim and it would work, which is not the case. Each new interaction of the Engine is a new engine. Creating a new engine from zero is one of the most stupid things you can do, you will always reuse some code. This is why Cyberpunk 2077 was so broken because they decided to create a new engine from zero instead of re-using and Updating the RedEngine they were using since Witcher 2. Let's divide Bethesda Unique Engines by the following: V1 - Morrowind V2 - Oblivion V2.5 - Fallout 3 and NV V3 - Skyrim V4 - Fallout 4 V4.5 - Fallout 76 V5 - Starfield Each jump of the version is a new engine. The problem with Bethesda is not the Engine, it is even very good, to be frank. The real problem is called Bethesda. If you give them Unreal 5, they will make a game even worse than they do now and more broken. Have you ever asked yourself why no one tries to make a new "Skyrim / Fallout" game? They are very successful games and no one tries, why? Because they don't have the most important puzzle piece, the Engine. If you swap the engine, Elder Scrolls and Fallout as we know will be gone forever. This is the main difference between using a specialized engine vs a generic engine (Unreal / Unity / Godot). And about loadings, Bethesda uses loadings because it is easier, and the engine is capable of making a full seamless world without loadings if you want. The necessary part for seamless work is the streaming capacity, and the engine is capable of that.
Thanks for the awesome comment! That was exactly what I thought. The engine is not the problem and you can basically do anything with it, there’s no limitations, only by the creator themselves which is like you said the problem at Bethesda. Bethesda have been lacking in writing and world design with their recent games. I hope they can turn it around!
@@Gradashy I am 100% in agreement. I’ve seen him talk and I’m going to do a video on him. Really don’t like the way he talks about writing. He said “you could spend 100s of hours writing a masterpiece, but the fans will just end up building shacks for hours” basically saying so there’s no point writing a good story as it would be wasted on them. Terrible attitude
@@AVVGaming1 and the no to design docs is the most absurd thing ever. Sawyer from Obsidian created a complete Table RPG as a design doc just for Pillars of Eternity so they could test it before putting it in the game. He thinks a design doc is a waste of time because you are always changing it, this is ridiculous, yes you are always changing since paper accepts everything, but that is the work of the Game Designer, update the design doc so everyone is at the same pace. This guy's approach explains a lot about why Bethesda is falling since Oblivion, many love Oblivion, but we need to admit, was there where a lot of shit started, Skyrim put even more shit in the fan, but it was still enjoyable, Fallout 4 the things started to get weird. And then Fallout 76 and Starfield happened.
@@Gradashy fo4 still has a massive fan base but it was the first Bethesda game that I played and didn’t click with. Why do you think they do these things? Is it arrogance? Like why not just stick to what you know and know works?
Mods are nothing without a game.. but im one that never bothered much about mods (but much respect to the ones who make them). F3 was prob the 1st & i only had basics that fixed stuff like the trader routes, the in game wpns worked fine so idc about modern looking stuff. most cosmetics meant nothing to me, the bug fixes & larger dlc type mods seemed more appealing. Not all players are hyped about them all so why bethesda focus on it & not gameply 1st.. creation club always had problems from when they launched it originally.. it broke my mod list & one of my games back then.. recently fallout london becme an issue bcos steam doesnt have the right version of the game.. everything is messing about !! Nothing has been seamless for them since a modder took the walls out of skyrim !!! and then they gave us starfield loadscreen sim... bethesda have had countless chances to streamline it all.. and Unreal is not a great engine for everything.. some games have struggled with it & have found alternatives recently.
Yeah I confess it here, I’m not really bothered about mods either. Nice to have, but the game itself is far more important. And mods should enchance a game, not fix it! Not make it playable or enjoyable. I think Bethesda need to really think about this one hard! It’s important they get the next one right!
Mods did keep Skyrim relevant for much longer but the game itself was good, it had huge faults but still a very solid game. As I am a moron I don't know how much is the engine and how much is Bethesda's way of doing things. If you made ES6 on Unreal, would it still feel the same as it is in the DNA or would it just show how much the Creation engine holds it back? I tried Starfield for an hour maybe a couple on gamepass but it did not hook me, but neither did Fallout so could be that I don't care for their shooter games.
I have played starfield, fallout 4 and Skyrim and the latter is miles ahead in my opinion. Fallout 3 and NV I really enjoyed but Skyrim was the king. But they don’t need to change the engine per se, they just need to sort themselves out and make the games we know they can. Giant elder scrolls world map, handcrafted, with the magic Skyrim had! If the game is amazing, the rest will all fall into place!
@@AVVGaming1 I don't want the game to be too big, I would rather just have one province as the other games. One well made province is much better then a half-baked Tamriel. I want the game to be hand crafted just filled with content, secrets etc.
I know! It’s basically an engine that they can customise freely right? It can be wiggled to do anything they want. Maybe it’s just Bethesda and the way they use it keeping it very simple? Like the like of animations in dialogue is strange for example.
I think a lot will come down to this new DLC. It’s more of hand crafted content. If they can do well with that, bring players back and show what starfield had the potential to do, more modders may give it a chance! We will have to wait and see!
I've made some silly mods (just for myself, nothing public) and yes, the creation kit is both archaic and easy but I don't think bethesda keep using that engine because it's easier for modders -- that would be 100% BS I think they're just stubborn and petty
Haha stubborn and petty for sure! The way they responded to all the criticism for starfield was crazy! They said the fans just were wrong and couldn’t appreciate a good game. That’s really petty lol
That’s the thing. Mods or not, the games gotta be good in the first place. Starfield was not and it’s bringing all these problems to light. Fallout 4 sold well and a lot of people enjoyed it, but the problems were starting to creep in in that game. Witcher 3 arrived same year as fo4 and took the awards.
@@AVVGaming1 Myself included have enjoyed fallout 4 but I remember when it came out I felt it ""worse"" than Skyrim. At least in graphic quality. And totally agree TW3 landed poorly and it became a masterpiece!
@@yey2wavy999 it’s funny, when fallout 4 dropped I was playing it right. Got to diamond city did a few sidequests and told my friend “I think this might be my new favourite”. Then I don’t know what it is, but there’s a point where you just lose interest? Like it starts to feel like work? I can play Skyrim all day and night. Fallout 4 is not the same. I honestly can’t put my finger on why though
@@AVVGaming1 I agree with the games needing to be good in the first place. As someone that sank a lot of a hours into Bethesda games from Morrowind and onward, no amount of mods people make that could do some overhaul like turn Skyrim into (Great Value) Dark Souls will matter compared to having the game be good. I enjoyed Fallout 4 for what it was worth but even then I saw myself not really being into it until the RNG gave me an actual fun weapon in a double barrel with explosive shots. And then some years later meanwhile, I'm going into Daggerfall after seeing someone made a sourceport from the ground up, I felt instantly hooked on it despite not being into it originally years ago. I honestly wouldn't mind if at the very least for Bethesda to have their games be good, at least give me some depth. All this after seeing how Daggerfall had that in not being afraid to tell me "you failed the quest you were given" and facing some consequence that had more than just "this NPC is mad at me" like in Skyrim or Fallout 4, like an actual reputation hit with a faction.
I'm a mod author (god I hate that moniker, it's so pretentious. it should be called 'douchebags editing spreadsheets") so I know first hand how absolutely busted NetiGameBreation Engine is. It's an excersize in self-flagellation and I can only surmise the devs use it because they're all masochists with a migraine fetish. Admittedly, I'm only familiar with the Fallout 4 iteration of Creation Engine (the most broken one...yay!) . You can never use the Creation Engine in a straightforward way. It always has to be some hacky, bassackwards workaround approach to "Trick" it into doing the thing you want it to do. Hell, you literally can't even _use_ the game editor without first modding it. You have to mod the game engine before you can mod the game. Bethesda divided by -zero.. twice.
Thanks for the comment and awesome insight! So basically it’s not clean, it’s something you have to “make it work” somehow. So in your opinion, they should probably change it then? Because if the engine limits them and is incredibly difficult to control for modders, what happens when a newer game on a new engine cracks the code and makes a more user friendly efficient modding tool? Bethesda have to sort that before that happens or it’s gonna be tough for them.
@@AVVGaming1 The old chestnut "they need a new game engine" completely misses the point, as most people think _that's the problem._ Yes, they aught to, because it was built during an ancient era of technology, and has limitations that other engines have surpassed for years, but it's not the problem with Bethesda. Saying their game engine is the cause of their problems is the craftsman blaming the tools for the shoddy work. Even if they had an engine that was 10x more powerful than URE5, the games would still have stupid plotlines, terrible dialogue, pointless mechanics, and be _r-i-i-i-ddled with flubbitus._ There'd also probably be microtransactions and battlepass shoehorned in there somewhere. Starfield released relatively bugfree. I mean, of all the dozens of videos I've watched talking about it.. bugs are not at the forefront, or they're not even mentioned at all. That's usually the main point people bring up with Bethesda games. So that tells me that no matter if it was bugged to hell or squeaky clean.. the other issues are so bad they drown out the petty technical foibles. I don't know what you mean by new game engine makes a more user friendly modding tool? The creation kit isn't the creation engine, nor is it a "modding tool." It's just the game editor they use at Bethesda. I can't change the physics or lighting engines, but I can change how they behave in the game. Mods and DLC are closely similar, so what determines what get's categorized as either depends on how the editor was used. If Bethesda made it in studio, it's DLC. If some douchebag made it while drunk (like I usually do), it's a mod. Modding tools would be things like Mod Managers, LOOT, xEdit, and the plethora of scripts written by modders that add all sorts of new functions to it like LODGen, TexGen, and the absolute GOAT CheckPrevisibines. Modders make their own tools, just like game studios make their own tools (aka, the game engine). Unless your me, who can't program jack shit so I just use all their free stuff. YOINK!
@@brovid-19 yes I agree. Starfield had basically no bugs. And if the game was amazing and the only issues were limitations set by the engine, then we could say okay yeah it’s just that. Bethesda would be great with UE5 etc but it’s not that all. Give them any engine and it’s gonna be below bar because there’s just a massive lack of quality in writing, world building and pretty much everything. I’m going to do a lot of research for a video I want to do soon “the fall of Bethesda” and cover it from the very beginning to where we are now. But, you hear so many people say “as long as they have that creation engine, they’ll never get back to the top” and it’s not that which is the problem. Thank you for sharing too, I have incredibly limited knowledge on modding and it’s great to learn from people like yourself
@@AVVGaming1 take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm just some asshole on the Internet. I'm an authority on nothing but my own ignorance, thanks, i appreciate you. Bethesda would be better off with a new engine, but it wouldn't matter if they use it as poorly as they do now, nor would it fix the maelstrom of issues they have as a whole. And modding is not as big a deal as the uninitiated may think.. it's mostly just some assholes editing spreadsheets, not rocket surgery. :p cheers mate
@@brovid-19 haha I just like chatting with people about the games because it’s interesting to hear everyone’s perspectives. I think the beauty of gaming is that it’s opinion based. I have other people who swear down FO4 is the greatest game they’ve ever played, even starfield! I just like to learn all this and sort of hear ideas. Just a big fan of gaming lol
Bethesda didn't help themselves by releasing the Next Gen Update, overwriting their Old Gen Version. Played and enjoyed my Fallout 4 for 9 Years, then suddenly, they decide they want to break your mods, again... Breaking mods, mod collections, and stopping Fallout London working. Adding Creation Club content, that can't be removed, unless done manually from the files. 9 Years of playing Fallout 4... and the people who bought Fallout 4, are not even taken into consideration, with updates. They should have release Next Gen Update, as a new version. Like with Skyrim SE. Fallout 4 LE Fallout 4 SE
Hear hear! Totally agree with what you’re saying. I really have listened to people’s comments and I have only heard people say how it was a negative thing having the update. It just upset a bunch of people and no one really liked it, plus is delayed London. And what did it honestly change? Not a lot. Not worth the sacrifice.
Also this update seems to have garnerd gog a fair bit of attention. Surely helped them along that Fallout London is hosted there as well, not denying that. Just funny how that went.
@@bazzy5644 GOG aka Good Old Games... has a version of Fallout 4 that isn't updated. So people are flocking to use that, so they can just play the Old Fallout 4, with mods and no Creation Club content. I've never been to it, and I only found out about GOG from a post in one of my mods...
They should put forth a polished product, instead we get a turd. Modders then have to polish it for them while they rake in the big $ and move onto the next steaming pile. Bethesda needs a home run next time, Starfield was an expensive experience and not worth the price of admission.
I think they generally expect the modders to fill in those 1000 planets. You’re spot on though, Bethesda have to hit a home run for their next game or I feel that will be the end of any fan trust they still have. They’ve not yet ruined the elder scrolls series yet, so that’s why there’s still a glimmer of hope!
I quit playing Starfield a few weeks after release, for obvious reasons. About a week ago, I decided to try Starfield with mods. The gameplay with mildly improved, specifically due to the simplified digipick hacking and more enemies mods, but aside from that, the game is still not worth playing. No amount of tweaking can polish this particular turd.
Yes and that’s the mods available. Nothing special. It’s just that the game is so far from being a good time. The gap is huge to breach and it would take days of work to turn it around. I don’t make mods, but I would worry about spending hours of my free time for no one to play it. That time could be spent on a more popular game. They really let themselves down with it and what’s ironic is that Todd called it a modders paradise. Because of how empty it is. He honestly expected modders to finish the whole game. Why would they do that?
@@AVVGaming1 Todd has been huffing his own farts for years. Fallout 76 was the death knell. Starfield was the funeral. I'm old, so I remember a time when Electronic Arts was a spectacular developer. You just KNEW any Sega Genesis game with the EA yellow tab was gonna be an absolute barn burner. But, what is Electronic Arts today? The digital anti-Christ is what EA is. Bugthesda has gone the way of EA, and there is no turning back.
Of course mods are helping BGS. Games like Doom that are 30 years old are only alive because of mods. People who complain about the “age of the engine” would be shocked to learn that there is code that is decades old in Linux, Windows, etc. SF has its problems, but it’s people’s expectations that are the biggest problem IMO. SF will continue to improve and will outlast other games, thanks to mods.
I think that was the point in that the engine is definitely not the problem. Starfield did not wow me but that being said, we could be here in 5 years time and it could be a completely different game. We will wait and see!
Yes 100%! Sorry I didn’t mention all those and yes they were procedural generated as well. I haven’t played them but I’m doing a first playthrough of dagger fall soon. Someone says they want to just watch to see my reaction to the first dungeon lol I want to play and experience this games so I can do justice for these games. Sorry for not covering them but I’m rather new at RUclips and learning as I go. Thanks for the feedback.
with all the fixex for bugs and cool shit since morrowind? wen some deve put the deve tools on the cd by mistake? yes moders caried ther game with ther out dated engines since 2010
It would certainly send shock waves across the gaming world. If it was a masterpiece with the promise of future nodding it might make it. But if the game disappoints and there’s no modding, then it may be over for Bethesda
it helps. and now that theres paid mods you got small dev teams making DLC sized mods thats cheaper than DLCs in nearly any game. like the mod to skyrim Kingah and his team put out recently. Also your player numbers are just looking at steam players, the vast majority of this games players are on console, by an insane margin. bethesda came out some time ago where they gave the numebers, and it was around 5 million weekly players, and the average playtime is 40 hours for a player(this is not weekly play time). People say the modding may hold em back cause "modders will fix it" but the truth is that some of their issues are simply issues with the open world genre, some are the way they make games, and some of em are generally corporate issues and their biggest issues is that their games are made for the weakest console. people act like the engine cant do anything and is outdated (unreal engine 5 is older) but all modern longterm engines like unreal just updates their engines like bethesda does. the difference is that Unreal is a company that solely makes engine for all games. bethesda has an engine to allow em to do what they want with their games. if they switched to unreal we wouldnt have the modding community, cause its proprietary and licenced, and it would be a nightmare to even get out somewhat similar tool as creation kit. and insanely expensive. everyone who has seen licenses in IT know how strict they are, how expensive they are and how insanely expensive it is to do something custom. Another company who makes somewhat similar games, with their own engine, and modding kit, is CDPR. creators of witcher and cyberpunk2077, and they have nearly the exact same issues, inconsistencies and their launches have always been a mess. its why its so hilarious to see people compare cyberpunk after 3 years of intensive surgery vs starfield on release. cause if you compared them both on release it would look completely different(cyberpunk was a bigger mess, and i got no clue how gamers forgot about it so soon) Personally i think Bethesdas biggest issue is animation, cause some of it looks fine, but a lot of it looks so bad and so bare bone, i cant believe theres actual paid people making it (im not talking about facial animation, those are procedural animated). and they often lack so much animation. the Fallout 4 reload animations are a great example of this. or the COMPLETE lack of combat animations for melee in starfield. i got no clue why they just didnt copy some of the mods from skyrim, paid the modder and added it to starfield. And last thing, all their games have been fleshed out and fixed by DLCs, Starfield still havent gotten a single DLC yet. and this DLC will have the handcrafted content in one place. id say give it 3 years like cyberpunk got, (no mans sky needed 6 years) cause its pretty obvious in this genre that first relase is trash. also theyre planning to do a dual engine for next game(another engine for the graphics from what ive heard), and i think its obvious that Starfield on release is kinda an incomplete base for the DLCs to build upon
btw sorry for writing so much, but theres so many inaccuracies in your video. like how you said modders wont mod starfield. starfield got modders who havent modded for 8 years to come back and make mods, how do i know? cause you can litterally find videos of em stating it, recently. and if youre in their discords or streams you can ask em. creation kit for starfield is a lot easier to learn and has a lot of QoL features. and now that theres paid mods, modders can finally get paid, donations never provided any decent or signifacnt amount of money. theres also a lot more new modders, because the console market is a big one.
I think it’s fair to give starfield the same amount of time as cyberpunk as you say. As far as inaccuracies in the video, I apologise but I did say I’m not an expert in this matter. If there’s a strong modding community then that’s great! I am surprised by the player count though, that sounds like a lot and if that’s true then it would make it one of the most successful games ever and as of rihht now surely? Although I do agree with all of your points! Sorry for the errors in the video, it’s not my area of expertise. I just hear a lot of people asking Bethesda to switch from creation to a new engine and I wanted to sort of discuss it. I don’t think it’d be the right move.
Bethesda would've died long ago without mods. The difference is that they used to make fun games than were modded for years to come. Now they make boring games that have to be modded in order to feel "completed". I've tried to play Starfield some times but the world feels so disconnected, and there is such a big quality difference between fetch quests and main quests it's overwhelming. Descompensated would be the word for Starfield.
That’s exactly my thought. It’s not the engine and trading it out is a bad move if there’s no mod support. They definitely need to leave that in. However, the game has to be good in the first place. If the game just isn’t good, then people won’t play it which means mods wouldn’t be experienced and as a result modders would create. I feel like Bethesda making the worlds so empty in hopes that modders would fill it is unacceptable
Of course the Engine holds Bethesda back, otherwise Starfield wouldn't have ended up the way it did. But if you watch the recently uploaded GDC Talk Will Shen and Daryl Bringer did at the start of the year you realize the problems at the studio run far, far deeper than just the engine. The studio sounds like a disorganized ambitionless mess that just does throw things together on a quest by quest basis without any planning at all and this also explians why their games are such incoherent messes to begin with. I have no idea how to fix this, but something has to be done, that is clear as day.
It does not matter what happens its a lose lose because they are owned by Microsoft seen a very very bad game for PlayStation get better reviews and love then most Xbox owned games the only exception to this was high fi rush xbox has so many hatters its probably best for them to say f pc because hate to say it pc fans and worse then sony fans so u want the games to b better stop putting them on pc ea finally realized that pc players are the worst in the business so yes mods are worse then no mod 2 a point skyrim fallout 4 are only well liked because Microsoft did not own them yet so pc has to go
I did a video on my support for hifi rush and how Xbox had let them down. I actually have a lot to say about Xbox practice as a business. However, that video got so much hate! I’ve learned to tip toe around that subject because Xbox fans will come and attack lol
@@AVVGaming1 hear is why pc needs to be put in its place they cry when a game dev puts it on anything but steam they refuse to play anything that is not on steam for the dumbest reson hackers so if u are that worried about ur personal info then maybe stay off the internet honestly anything can be hacked online so if that is pc players biggest issues gog is the only safe gaming dev because its drm free and steam is actually getting sued because of pc players making it a monopoly
Starfield is domed, yep their main problems are the disjointed travel experience and boring square maps and you can't even flight your own ship, i mean even no man sky when they released the game in crap state you could fly your ship everywhere, so yep game is dead
@@GoalOrientedLifting Game Pass Players, overwhelmingly so. They will move on and forget about starfield as soon as the DLC is out and another disappointment like the base game was.
I would have been worried about releasing it after seeing Nms. It was always going to be compared. My main gripe with the game was the procedural generated content and finding the same dungeons over and over again. It made me not want to explore as it wasn’t guaranteed I’d find something new. Whereas elder scrolls and fallout did.
I think the ideas been out there for a while, a lot of people asking Bethesda to change engine. But if they do it, if they lose mods, I fear it would be a bad move. Even if the game was better than anything they’ve done. Mods are vital to the longevity. I would say to stick with the engine, but up the writing in the quests etc.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Sneaking [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ILUps2zDFU/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a modder and spent thousands of hours with all the tools in Fallout 3, 4, NV and Skyrim.
1. There is theoretically nothing wrong with updating a software forever, look at Photoshop (just talking about the technical side. Adobe got as predatory as Todd with Toddcrap 76).
2. No, Bethesda didn't do the best they could to simplify their tools for modding. They couldn't even write a decent documentation for it and without tools from the community, you couldn't create a mod like Fallout London.
3. Modding is niche, most players don't use mods at all, even on PC. Toddthesdda wants it to become popular now, as paid mods, aka creations. With the new term, they want to unlink "paid" and "mod" because that sounds evil.
4. I don't give a shit anymore which engine they will use for their new products. And I don't give a shit about modders releasing mods for money on a Bethesda platform, they became game developers and aren't a part of the community. I don't even give a shit about modders helping Bethesda to fix their rotten products after Fallout 4 for free anymore.
BTW: I'm sitting in front of XEdit and Fallout London, trying to port some of my own mods.
Thanks for the comment it’s really interesting to hear about it. I remember when they made starfield they said it would be a modders paradise. Also as if saying, we left the 1000 planets completely empty so the modders can fill it all in and finish the game! Then we can charge and take a cut! Or, you can play it as it is. It’ll be the same dungeons and planets everywhere you go! To me, it just seems to be disappointing from Bethesda. It would almost disappointing if modders managed to save starfield as that would almost reward Bethesda for not doing the work early. It would also justify their decisions and maybe we’d see more blank world maps from them, if that makes sense?
@@AVVGaming1 It looks like they created 1000 empty planets as plots for modding. But it's just because creating 1000 planets doesn't give you more work than 500 or 50 when it's procedurally generated.
They counted with modding, but also with something like a Bethesda magic: Just throw enough things into a game, and it will be good. It just doesn't work.
Some people may think that modding is just about jiggling physics and cheating, but it isn't. A game needs to be decent enough to inspire modders.
You can see it with Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Modding for Fallout 4 is practically dead, but in Skyrim it's still alive because it's objectively the better game which can be played without mods.
Starfield (and Toddwater 76) doesn't deserve to be modded, and Bethesda doesn't deserve the help of modders anymore.
In the end, I'm a customer too, and I do have my principles. I don't want to make Bethesda's game playable anymore because I don't like them anymore. Their bubble needs to pop, or you will get a Toddfield with swords.
@@PixelMurder Modding for Fallout 4 is in no way "practically dead" but I do concur with your other observations.
@@jamesmeldrum4563 It's dead compared to Skyrim, an older game than Fallout 4. I do have 4000 hours in Fallout 4, and I've installed it several times again since release day. And it was never like Skyrim where I wanted to make a fresh install, because whole new systems appeared. I just could restore my backups.
@@PixelMurder Yeah, comparing the Fallout 4 modding scene to Skyrim doesn't make the overall picture bleak. What is bleak however is the Starfield modding scene which get's beaten by Fallout 4 on a daily basis.
Sales wise, yes. It helps them greatly. Perception wise, no. People see what modders can do and wonder why BGS can't meet or exceed them, and frankly it's a good question. They seem to have lost the magic they once had.
I used to make mods for their games quite a lot. There's nothing wrong with the underlying engine. Engines aren't a single thing. They encompass different things that can be switched out like physics and graphics. The underlying engine they have is fine and allows a massive amount of freedom in what can be done. People that complain about it usually don't understand how engines work. They could at any time switch out anything they weren't happy with (before development started of course). You're 100% right that whatever is going on is due to the decisions they make and not some underlying issue with their tech.
Yes, and comparing it to a game like RDR2 or cyberpunk 2077. Those two games utilise a lot of motion capture. Can that be done with the creation engine like you said? Or would they need a change? I mean either way, Bethesda’s main problem is with its latest design in writing, quest design, world building and more. They have to look at themselves first for sure.
That’s changing. With kingath mods people are starting to see the potential of free mods.
@@AVVGaming1all of those “issues” you listed aren’t issues in Bethesda games.
The issue is they tried to do too much with starfield.
@@AVVGaming1 Yeah, they could definitely do that. They change the animation system quite often. I remember back when Skyrim launched we had issues getting new animations into the game because they had switched to a new proprietary animation system they had licensed from someone else (I think it was Havok). Eventually a very talented modder figured it out and from then on we could add any animations we wanted to the game. The bad animations are due to them either not having the talent to make them good (unlikely) or not wanting to spend the resources needed to bring them up to modern standards.
You are right, mods have done some incredible things that are in many cases far better than the base game. But again we are trashing Bethesda for every bug they didn't fix for their game while we ignore the same for mod projects. Take a look at Fallout London, it's a great project, it's almost a new game, but it has a lot of crashing issues, i enjoy it through them, some have more some less but the issue is there. Imagine if fallout london was an official Bethesda release, imagine the outrage. They have to limit themselves in order to make a game stable. Like horses in skyrim, imagine if there are a lot of files in vanilla game about horse riding and no horses, some modder would make a horse mod, put it out, people would download it and say how come bethesda didn't make this, while ignoring the textures that haven't loaded properly. They have to make those things work and we don't give them the same room for the error that we give modders.
The problem is they think starfield was a well accepted success…
I agree and they fought back to every criticism saying that the fans were wrong. That is the bigger of the problems. It’s not the engine, it’s what they made with it, and what they didn’t make.
People really need to get over this misconception that the engine is somehow holding bethesda games back, its not.
Bethesda is holding the _engine_ back.
All you need to do is take a look around at the modding scene for their games and you can clearly see the engine is extremely versatile, and you can get a lot done with it, provided you have the skills and creativity to make the most of it.
And this is all without having access to the core engine code itself.
Mod authors are stuck using third party software in order to add new scripting or engine functions into the games.
Bethesda on the other hand has the ability to completely rewrite the engine to add any new features or improvements they want.
Sadly, bethesda in recent years has largely not changed how they go about game development and hasent invested the time and energy needed to really push the engine forward, and as a studio, Bethesda has creatively stagnated.
They keep trying to copy features or mechanics from other franchises, rather then building upon the framework they themselves put forward nearly 20 years ago.
Large, open world rpgs, with tons of unique characters, locations and lots of sandbox gameplay opportunity's is what bethesda is known for, yet in recent years they seam hellbent on straying away from this kind of gameplay and instead trying to make their games more action oriented or cinematic, when they dont have the creativity needed to pull off a good experience.
The fact of the mater is, the problems with bethesda games wont change or go away until and unless bethesda themselves change, and reorient themselves back to making the types of experiences fans came to know them for.
Yes and I think that’s what my final point was. It’s not so much the engine as it is the actual games they’re making. I mean when I see some of those mods, it beggars belief. It makes you wonder why they can make such varied gameplay, yet Bethesda are unable to do that. It’s a shame because their writing and open worlds are just becoming a bit bland. They should honestly consider bringing in some of those modders to help them with their games! Some fresh ideas might help!
I'm also tired of hearing that same argument about how Bethesda should ditch their tools, they have a problem of writing shit stories and making bad game decisions, and despite how Unreal Engine 5 looks and is powerful, it can´t fix shit stories and bad game decisions.
If it wasn't for mods I would've stopped playing skyrim after my first playthrough. Stafields modding scene tragically died stillborn
There’s just too much to do and nobody there to try it. I have tried playing starfield a few times and it’s just not good. It’s boring is the problem. The problems are too deep now. Skyrim was a good game. You probably had a good time the first time playing it and mods gave you a reason to return. Rihht now the first time in starfield is Miles from a good time.
@@AVVGaming1Respectfully, I have to disagree with both of you.. for me, I haven't really had much of a chance to play starfield.. I've only been watching it through some of my favorite RUclipsrs.. Gopher, Mental Fox and Lyle Shnub... And it's been one hell of a ride, starfield to me is not boring.. perhaps you haven't really given it much of a chance.. I can agree that there are some aspects that are
"boring", but this game is far from boring. I don't know if you even had a chance to try the quest "Operation Starseed".. that was entertainment all in its own.. and pretty damn creative, so was the ryujin quest arc... I found quite a bit of this game rather entertaining.. maybe it's not for everybody just like fallout isn't for me. Somebody did recommend New Vegas but I'm just going to watch it, for now. I will agree that Skyrim does get boring after a while, without mods.. I probably would have stopped playing it.. in fact I did. But the thousand Year Itch, kind of came and crept in and I found myself playing it for another year.. and even tried some quest mods that added hundreds of hours of content. So yes.. are mods good for Bethesda.. are they helping Bethesda.. we can't say for certain, but I think Todd is paying close attention.. and he has mentioned it in quite a few podcasts, and interviews.. he says that the modding community is something that is heavily relied on, but he says that he's tried several of them (mods) and enjoys them, I feel like they're getting a lot of their inspiration from the modding community.. and I feel like without mods.. everything would be kind of just standing still. And I'm grateful for the modding community.. I mean I only discovered the modding community about maybe 3 years ago.. when all the sudden the option popped up on the screen on Skyrim.. I was able to hop on there and check out additional content that was free.. and when it loaded up, it made Skyrim a whole different place.. with the selection I had. Just give starfield a chance.. I mean really go and be the explorer you're supposed to be.. I mean there are some strange and weird missions, people, and places that you probably haven't explored yet.. give it a shot.
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim is not a good game. None of the Bethesda games are good games. They might be fun, but they aren't good. They're like McNuggets. You know it's bad for you, but god damn aren't they tasty as all hell. _I know I'm eating cancer biscuits, but I don't care!_
it's also good to remember that even if they change the game engine, the first new game they make with the new engine wouldn't necessarily be better than the previous ones... it takes time, practice and experience to use the new game engine to achieve the best possible result. the first new game with the new engine might be just as buggy or even more buggy than the previous ones. for example, Bioware and Anthem / mass effect Andromeda, Bioware changed the game engine and with relatively catastrophic consequences. + you don't always have to change the game engine, even updating the existing one can do wonders. and if you change enough game engine parts, we'll have a Ship of Theseus conversation. As for Bethesda games, they have a difficult balance when it comes to making them. you can't focus too much on one thing or other parts will suffer, Bethesda games have to be a little bit of everything for that freedom to be real. some complain that Bethesda games are "wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle", that's an exaggeration of course. but even if they were, they wouldn't be as popular if they only focused on one thing or mechanic over everything else at the expense of all other mechanics. it's kind of a reverse assassin's creed problem where those games have focused too little on assassination lately, Bethesda's games can't focus on one thing too much. there are so many different ways to play Skyrim... if they were to focus in the next game on just assassinating or just stealing or just magic at the expense of all the other playstyle possibilities the game would suffer. + some games are easier to mod, in the sense that the best moddable games are those whose existing systems can be improved or deepened or to which new systems or areas can be added. Basically, Bethesda games are sandbox games with RPG elements and interesting lore. I like starfield myself, but I understand why it's not for everyone. in a way, Bethesda was doomed because space games are not easy to make, especially not based on Bethesda's game design.
Yes and that’s the thing, if they change the engine then they are back to square one and mod compatibility would be gone. To start with a new engine would also re introduce the bugs like you said. Starfield was not my cup of tea, but it definitely had the least bugs I’ve seen in a new Bethesda game, showing that even if the engine has limitations, the studio are very competent with it now. I think they should stick with what they know and just look at starfield reviews and take on the feedback. The majority of people aren’t complaining about the engine, it’s different aspects and they can work on those.
The big problem with BGS games now is that they've turned the modding community into their own personal QA and QC team they not only do they not have to pay, but *_stand to profit off of._* In that regard, they're no longer selling a game, but instead something like a membership-liscense thing.
And that’s how starfield felt. It felt like they purposely left the planets empty for the modders to come in and fill it all in. Like a project that’d be built by others but they’d cash in. I find it lazy but either way, if people don’t play it, then there’s no one to buy or download the mods. The game has to be good first in order for it all to work in my personal opinion
@@AVVGaming1 Something I do is jot down a pipe dream of what I would like TES6 to have and to be. But the overarching thesis I've been using for it is simple: make it good enough to not NEED to mod. Even after the shine has looooong since worn off and BGS's constant rereleasing the game has become a joke, part of why Skyrim is the golden goose of the company's lifetime is because it was good enough to not need to mod. It's easy to forget, but of the 3.4M copies sold in the first 2 days, 59% were on XB360, 27% on PS3, and 14% on PC.
@@humrH2360 absolutely! Make the game
Good enough that it actually doesn’t need mods and then mods are just like bonuses! Skyrim may have over 70k mods now but the game itself was brilliant when it came out! It scored 9/10 across the board! They need the game to be at least to a good level first and then it will be a success with mods as well.
Poor Bethesda. Their design philosophy and technology is still in a state of arrested development.
Unfortunately that is the case.
Question that should be asked is: 'are paid mods helping bethesda?', shoving down your throat something objectfly expensive and something that should have been already in the game. Using "helping modders" as shield when someone says something negative.
Yes I didn’t bring that up either. They say they do it so their modders can be rewarded but they take a slice too right?
It is not the engine and I am an official Nexus mod author. Mods help BGS sell the game because people know the mods will come... use to know. BGS just killed that.
We have had mods that eliminate load screens for Skyrim. You can enter the cities with no load screen. Starfield, you can jet pack off the balcony of your apartment in New Atlantis. You can avoid the load screen altogether. BGS just uses them. But BGS used Starfield as a cash grab. Big open, empty space and they can sell mods created to fill it. Even BGS sells BGS "creation" content for you to BUY and fill up the empty $70 game they sold you. BGS = Because Greed Sucks.
This comment! That’s exactly how I feel! It’s not the engine, it’s Bethesda not making the game up to standard and the fact the world is empty, it’s so wrong to then ask modders to fill it in! It’s just so lazy and from what people like yourself have told me, creation engine has no limits but Bethesda are making the games simple. They have also dropped quality in writing as well. It’s so naughty when you think about it.
There are over 8000 mods for Starfield so far
And how do you think it’s effecting the game? Improving it immensely? Do you think it’ll be as successful as say Skyrim in the mod department?
@@AVVGaming1 none of Bethesda’s games have as many mods as Skyrim. Still, 8k mods and climbing in less than a year after release is pretty impressive. It already has more mods than most games in existence. I could see it reaching current fallout 4 numbers in the course of its lifetime. Skyrim (special edition) on nexus has over 93k mods. Fallout 4 has 61k on nexus and given that these games are, what, 13 and 9 years old respectively, then I think Starfield is on pretty good track.
And I mean, I’ve had a blast coming back to the game with mods, but I enjoyed Starfield immensely when it came out as well. Moreso when I came back though and I had expectations for what it is and what it isn’t.
Sure, I think mods can make the game more how I want it to be, but it’s to personal taste.
Space games are pretty niche in general though. Most of them I don’t like, but this one I played for 300 ish hours so it was a game that jived with me.
I also think in a few years Starfield is going to be looked at under a less harsh light. When cyberpunk came out *everyone* shit on the game, especially that Luke Stephens dork made a 4 hour critique on how bad everything is, and now that same dork praises everything about it like that 4 hour critique doesn’t exist. I always thought it was a good game, and I think Starfield is a good game too. Give it a few years, maybe you’ll come back to it and beyond the disappointment you have for it now, maybe you’ll end up enjoying it a lot more with expectations set.
Maybe after shattered space comes out, you can revisit the game and view the landscape before calling (or implying) it is a dead game. We have a lot of Bethesda games going on at once, like FO76 and the new mod Fallout London. 9 thousand concurrent players is still better than many other, actually, dead games, haha
Modder here.
I think your points are very valid. Im obviously biased towards the creation engine, and the Nexus and Creation numbers back me up on this one, since no other studio has garnered such a colossal community and mod output. I dont think Bethesda needs to "evolve" their formula drastically at the cost of this joint effort between studio and community to flesh out these games as much as they can.
I will say that in starfield's case, the main issue really comes down to a certain type of blandness that permeates the entire experience. Features wise we already have brilliant mods that address or are actively addressing the most contentious gameplay aspects, to the point my modded starfield is already my most complex and rich bethesda game features wise, all in less than a year from the release of the Creation Kit.
However, you really must be invested in this setting and I dont think it struck a chord wiyh many people, specially with what they had to put up with the vanilla gameplay experience at launch. It took me building my load order to really appreciate the game that was underneath properly, and even then it's not what I'd define as a really engaging setting.
Thanks for the comment! My biggest issue with the game was the planets. As opposed to hand crafted ones they were all procedural generated. So if I explore Skyrim and see a dungeon pop up, I can go there, knowing I will be rewarded with something unique. It will be a new experience. Might find a quest etc. with starfield I found that I would run into repeats a lot. My time was no longer guaranteed to be worth it. It felt like work after a while. But, with mods, you could technically fix that rihht? Obviously it would be time consuming but you could essentially make a grid with hand crafted dungeons and every inch of the map unique. Is that possible or will it always be random?
@@AVVGaming1 yup, we have some ongoing projects addressing these aspects. The community even created a framework to add new poi's or to create variations on existing poi's (procedurally or by hand, think like the outposts and ships in mass effect 1), and there's even a mod that randomizes several aspects of the encounters in the poi's to make every incursion different from the previous. It's an ongoing development which I find very interesting. We dont have that many mods as of now but the idea is that eventually there will be much more.
@@marconihimself see that in my opinion could change the entire game. That was the main problem with the game. I know people will say the loading screens, the fact you can’t travel freely through space etc. but I’d say the two main issues were the one I have discussed with you, and then the writing. But there’s nothing that can be done about that. If the modders went and committed fully to what you’re discussing there I could easily see a huge return to form for the game! It’s crazy how people like yourself can see this stuff immediately though and get Bethesda can’t?
@@AVVGaming1 bethesda is a weird company, theyre simultaneously one of the companies that most engages with their community and one of the most dismissives of the community lol.
And yeah, I dont mind loading screens really, specially because now I have a system for fuel, batteries, a complete overhaul of the balancing to make the gameplay more realistic, a proper sustenance / needs system, a tougher economy / research system etc etc. There's also a modder that goes by agd25 that's reworking the placement of temples, anomalies and outposts to make these poi's only spawn in places that makes sense, or even removing all temples and anomalies besides the first one in a way that fits with the main quest (and makes more sense).
@@marconihimself that’s what I feel too! On one hand, no other company others such access with mods. On the other hand, they don’t really assist if someone asks for help lol it’s so strange. That sounds like you’ve got starfield rocking now! Thanks for your comments too I leanddd a lot!
I'm cool with a new engine so long as it is just as moddable. I am a creation engine fan just because of what can be done with it
And that’s the thing, it’s basically open to anything right? It can literally be converted to do anything with another work? I feel like maybe it’s Bethesda aren’t making the most of it? Some mods I’ve seen for Skyrim are literally entirely different games
@@AVVGaming1 I agree. Bethesda is the issue lol
As usual I agree with everything you said. Personal take? I don't want them to switch engines. Modding is the essence of Bethesda. It is infinitely difficult to introduce mods like they do here in the Unreal Engine. From what I understand, your imagination is your limit as a modder in Creation Engine. Proof is in the mods. If you dream of a mod, you should probably use the search bar and see it already being made.
Thank you and good to see you again! That’s my take too. I wouldn’t Change it either and from what other modders have told me, the sky is literally the limit with the engine. It can do anything! So in reality, if a game has limited ambition or poor writing etc that’s Bethesda not the engine. I think Bethesda should stick the engine, and just focus on making the next game the best that it can be! Back to hand crafted worlds for us to explore! Plus dungeons! Lmfao
@@AVVGaming1 I can only imagine the glee on your face if Elder Scrolls 6 has over 300 handcrafted dungeons! You should do a channel giveaway in celebration xD
@@debopamroy56 hahahaha! If it happens I give my word I will do something like that for sure! Lol
Imo the most natural progession for an engine Change is right at their door step it's ID Softwares ID Tech 7, which btw recently also released Modding tools for Doom Eternal, which look pretty damn powerful as well. But like I said above, there seems to be fundamental problems at the studio which have nothing to do with just the eingine. Microsoft needs to sort this shit out, to be blunt.
The problems have been around for a while but what’s worse is that the problems are not the same as they were before. They are getting worse and worse. It’s been in free cal for a while and it’s such a shame considering Bethesda were THE company setting the standards back in those days. saw your other comment and going to check out that interview you spoke about.
@@AVVGaming1 It's honestly a big revelation hearing that talk. Sadly not at all in a good way.
@@bazzy5644 I expect it to be eye opening. I’ll comment back here with my thoughts.
@@AVVGaming1 I watched a stream commenting on it now. And it got even worse. From the points that got brought up. Looking forward to your take on it. :O
@@bazzy5644 hey I’m sorry to be a pain, but could you send the link to the video? I want to be sure I’ve got the right one. Sorry to be a pain :(
Serious cracks started showing when fallout 4 released & its slowly gotten worse and worse with every release. I have no faith in them to continue making the experiences I enjoyed as a kid
It’s just showing its limitations now. Mods have added to the experience though. I think they find themselves at a difficult crossroads and it’s tough to decide their next steps. The engine has been pushed as far as it can go surely?
Another things about modders, most mod games they play because they love the games they mod -- that is what gets someone into modding a particular game. I've never modded a Bethesda game, but have creates some popular mods for Minecraft, all mostly so I could play with them, and when I stopped playing a lot of Minecraft I became much less motivated to mod it. If you aren't attracting or maintaining players, you probably attracting modders.
It’s awesome to get a comment from someone with modding experience! I totally Agee with what you’re saying, it’s all about having passion to put in the mods but you’ve got to be enjoying the game and seeing the potential of others enjoying your work for it to make sense. A lot of BGS modders who worked on Skyrim etc have said they won’t do it for starfield and I’m assuming it’s for that same reason.
Great perspective m8
Thank you very much mate! Glad you enjoyed the video!
My opinion is that Todd should focus his energy on improving the creation engine and leave the management to more talented people.
Fuck improving the creation engine, make an entirely new one.
creation engine 2 is a massive upgrade. as someone who have modded their games for over a decade now. the new engine is a lot more capable. a lot of the issues i had to get so many mods to remove i no longer have to. and it runs so much more stable on my old card. ive always had a theory that the people making the engine are good workers, and the people making the games are bad ones. cause nearly all the issues thats blamed on the engine stems from how they make games, its why we could mod out nearly all the issues.
Also theyve litterally hired the best modders, over the years. Andnow that modders can get paid they can make small dev teams who put out an insanely large projects for less than what any AAA studio can put out.... btw if you dont believe me on the latter. just look up skyrims new mod from Kinggath which is packed with content, good content and theyve even hired OG voice actors. "Bards college expansion" and similar DLC sized mods is what we will start to see more of in the future now that modders finally can get paid. they also work somewhat with bethesda(modders own words, not mine)
Edit: the hate campaign of bethesda is the reason why most people got no clue what the actual issues are. its like a crowd that lashes out at everything in an irrational way and misses the actual issues. im also not saying they dont deserve any hate, nor that they have no flaws, cause they do
@@comyxcon4gaming860 would take years to make a new engine from the ground up and years more to sort out all its issues so unless you wanna wait till 2045 for Fallout 5 that is not a great idea
@@Sleepy.Time. They had plenty of time during the '90s, so that's no excuse.
I think Todd might need to take a step back himself anyway. He’s the one who pushed so hard for starfield and we could all really do with BGs getting back on track. He needs to open the floor to new ideas now.
The Creation Engine is a fickle issue, if you look at it's Free Open Source Software counterpart known as OpenMW, The engine can do so much more if given the proper optimization.
But that is where the issues come in, No one except Bethesda has the source code for the engine, so any engine levels bugs and quirks are really difficult to fix.
Yes and that is what I have generally come to the conclusion as. It’s not the engine that’s the problem as the engine can probably do anything. It’s Bethesda that are the ones who are holding it back with their lack of innovation. It’s crazy because they were the kings of that and now they haven’t introduced anything new in years. They need to basically redo Skyrim, in another land but bring it up to today’s standards! Thanks for the post and sharing!
I am new to your channel, but you are doing a fantastic job. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much! Really glad you are enjoying the videos and so glad to get a comment like this! It really means the world and lets me know I’m moving in the right direction. If you ever have any feedback on any video, even if constructive/negative please don’t hesitate to let me know. I hope through everyone’s feedback I can continue to improve and make videos better as I go! Again, thank you for the kind words!
Fallout London isn't "Helping" Bethesda.. it is pointing out how EPIC FAiL they have become.
I do believe it will highlight how a small team of volunteers can compete or maybe even make a better game than Bethesda. I actually did a video asking if they sabotaged the London release but doing that update. As in, did they not want London to outshine their own game after the release of the fallout show? We will never know but it’s great that mods like that can exist.
@@AVVGaming1 I totally agree.
@AVVGaming1 The fact that Bethesda greenlit a Gallout TV show, but didn't care to have anything "nee" of note to release with it wil go down as one of the all-time great missed-oppprtunities in Video Game Marketing.
Couldn't just let FOLON steal their limelight.
@@devobronc I don’t know why they missed that opportunity! It seems like starfield has really knocked them off course. The Bethesda that I knew back in the day would have definitely added new content. Nowadays they just seem to re package mods built by others
Damn man, never thought about it that way, but its a reallt interesting point of view... I am not a modder and have no knowledge of making mods... but you could be terribly right, making the game more accesible to mod, and open could actually be holding them back as they are always reiterating on the engine, if anything for modding sake.... and not for the games sake.
@@luissosa320 thank you. It’s a really tough one because on one hand you have the fact the engine is showing its age, limiting how much potential Bethesda can reach and that is now more apparent than ever. But, this same engine has modders who know it’s ins and outs, and the most accessible way to make mods with it. To change it, would be a huge risk, which could either result in a huge boost to the studio, or be the final nail in the coffin. It’s incredibly tough.
I would also like to point out that you dont need Creation Engine to have mods. Yes, they would have to make new mod tools. Yes, modders would have learn them. But at this point I think it would be the better choice to take the plunge and growing pains now to give themselves a better future. Kinda like CD Project Red is now working hard on their branch of UE 5 so they have easier time doing their job eventually.
Yes we’ve seen CDPR making moves to enter the modding arena and other games as well. I think the creation engine and kit was great for Skyrim and fallout 4. But they’ve had now since, what, 2003? I think it’s time to make a move and implement something new. We are ready for something a little different now!
If it weren't for modders, everyone would have stopped playing "Oblivion" or "Fallout 3" after a year. Mods make a huge difference in extending a games replay-ability.
Also, mods can fix game play issues that Bethesda can't or won't fix themselves, because let's face it: Bethesda has a big problem with making its customers be beta-testers for their products.
Yes so let’s say they switch engine with no chance of mods for a while. Those bugs are now game breaking as opposed to being able to be fixed. As old as the engine is now, Bethesda have really used their modding community to help their games. I played starfield and encountered about 5 quest breaking quests early on. So frustrating and Bethesda don’t tend to fix this stuff quickly
I'm not a modder and I don't know what makes this engine so good for modders. But I wonder, is it not possible for Bethesda to make a new in house engine, build it from the ground up, better in ever way! And I mean truly better not slap a 2 on it and call it a day, but with the same modder friendliness as the creation engine? I mean that would be the best of both worlds right.
Basically there are bunch of good modding tools available, both built in and community made. Making a new engine will take a lot of time and money with little profit, requiring a lot of specific experts they probably don't have on staff, and is a big risk, in case it sucks. Like I am talking 10 million dollars and 5-ish years minimum, but realistically like 100 million and 10-ish years if you want it to be good. Half life 2 engine took 5 years and 40 million dollars as an example.
That said, with a new engine you loose 20 years of ongoing development and community support and tools. Witch is big. And thats not considering the risk of doing stupid things and making it bad. Cause you know they spent like 20+ years on the current engine, and it barely works. Imagine that but with always online cloud based infrastructure, and 20 less years of bugfixes.
@@mapu1 Ah I see, yeah that sounds like a major headache. I did know that making a new engine was a hard, time consuming and expensive job, but I had no idea it was this much of a big deal. Thanks for the info.
Hey there again! I think from what I’ve gathered, it’s not so much the engine as it is the work from Bethesda. It appears that the engine can do almost anything, according to modders, but Bethesda are not doing much with it, at least recently. It’s amazing how many people have experience in this! Have you played fallout London yet btw?
@@AVVGaming1 I'm having some trouble getting Fallout London to work, and I've been pretty busy for the last few weeks so I haven't had much time to trouble shoot yet. But once I have the time I'm playing the heck out of that game.
@@TheMysterieRPGguy hahah I’m the same! Just waiting to find the time. It’s crazy what they’ve made! Pure dedication. I’ve not forgotten what we said about the ES2 either!
Bethesda relying on The Creation Engine is not gonna help them in the long run as far as technology goes in terms of new and exciting experiences that other games will provide in the future and if they really want to recapture what made their games so special and unique, they must also evolve not only from a gameplay, design philosophy, and storytelling aspect, but from a technological leap one as well.
I’m inclined to agree. It may set them back on mods but surely they could add that in later. Either way, creation engine or not, if they don’t release another game that captures the attention of fans then they won’t need to worry about the mods. No matter what option they choose, their next game has to be as close to a masterpiece as possible. If not, they will struggle to recapture their audience. As of now they have lost a lot of their fans trust, but they still have some waiting for thst next elder scrolls. But one more mistake and I doubt they’ll stick around to wait for the next one.
The talent, the people who made Bethesda great, they are gone... The people who wrote the Lore for The Elder Scrolls, they are gone... The people they have writing now are talentless hacks... To start to address the problem BGS would have to fire ALL of the writers and hire new writers who can actually write and care about The Elder Scrolls... If the story of Starfield was as good as Morrowind would be talking about loading screens, I don't think so... The combat in Bethesda games has always been dogshit, but no one cared because they made worlds you wanted to get lost in, and they crafted Lore for those worlds that made them feel like places that could really exist... That was the magic, and it's gone now, if they want it back they have to start with the writing. I still remember the story of Daggoth Ur, Sotha Sil and Vivec, the nerevar the sixth house and the battle of red mountain... More than 20 years later and I still remember it, not all the details, but at least the broad strokes... CUZ THE STORY OF MORROWIND WAS REALLY FUCKIN GOOD. Ya know what I remember about Fallout 4... How laughably bad its story was...
You’re spot on. It’s a Bethesda problem. The engine is dated granted, but the problem is deeper than that. It’s deeper than just a starfield problem really. It appeared a little from morrowind to oblivion, then more in Skyrim, then a lot more in fo4, even more in fo76 and so on. The changes they have made have gotten worse and the writing is the one thing that needs the most attention. It could be on unreal engine, creation engine or on a comic strip, it doesn’t matter because boring bad writing will still be the same regardless. They need to look inside and replace some people. Because if they don’t up their writing, they’re not making a come back. And their world building has usually always been good. The fact they abandoned that in starfield is the craziest thing. It really needs sorting. Great comment!
Nice one bruv
Thank you mate!
When Fallout 4 came out, the editor was delayed - was it a year, two, three? can't remember.
I remember they claimed that it was the same editor that the devs had to use to make the game.
This seemed off. If it really was the same, why was it delayed for a long time? It should have been ready before the game was finished.
The editor seemed poor compared to other equivalents, and if the devs have to use it, I can see why there are so many problems.
There's still a lot of things that are easier to do in the FO4edit program that a modder created.
And the game is just so unstable that modders have been straining ever since launch to find a solution. Bethesda, as far as I am aware, has never really looked at debugging their code. You still see the same awful bugs as on release. I remember submitting reports, being told no-one else is getting them so they are closed without investigation, then I would read others getting the same bugs year after year.
Wow, it's now a decade later come to think of it. They have the revenue from fo4 sales to fix problems, they just choose never to do it.
Fallout London is amazing, but it crashes like crazy, and the reason is they are taking this shack built on a swamp, and trying to build a castle, and it then sinks into the bog.
Bethesda's laziness meant they released Starfield assuming the bugs had gone away, when all that had happened was that modders had improvised fixes. FO76 was even showing the same bugs that occurred in the very earliest bethesda games - they had forgotten they were even there, because they saw modders as a part of the furniture.
I just wonder, you look at the team at FOLON who have dedicated so much time into it. Literally built an entirely new game. Then things like that happen, their mod suffers for something not their fault, they don’t get any support, I mean I give them full credit because that would frustrate me. I just think Bethesda need to give their modders all the help they can because as of right now they have the best mod community. But alls it takes is another big hitting game to come along and offer something just as good if not better and it could all fall apart for Bethesda
Saying that the current creation engine is the same as Gamebryo is the same as saying that Unreal 5 is the same as Unreal 1 from 1999.
If the engine was the same, you would be able to take the assets and scripts from Morrowind and put them on Skyrim and it would work, which is not the case. Each new interaction of the Engine is a new engine. Creating a new engine from zero is one of the most stupid things you can do, you will always reuse some code. This is why Cyberpunk 2077 was so broken because they decided to create a new engine from zero instead of re-using and Updating the RedEngine they were using since Witcher 2.
Let's divide Bethesda Unique Engines by the following:
V1 - Morrowind
V2 - Oblivion
V2.5 - Fallout 3 and NV
V3 - Skyrim
V4 - Fallout 4
V4.5 - Fallout 76
V5 - Starfield
Each jump of the version is a new engine. The problem with Bethesda is not the Engine, it is even very good, to be frank. The real problem is called Bethesda. If you give them Unreal 5, they will make a game even worse than they do now and more broken.
Have you ever asked yourself why no one tries to make a new "Skyrim / Fallout" game? They are very successful games and no one tries, why? Because they don't have the most important puzzle piece, the Engine. If you swap the engine, Elder Scrolls and Fallout as we know will be gone forever. This is the main difference between using a specialized engine vs a generic engine (Unreal / Unity / Godot).
And about loadings, Bethesda uses loadings because it is easier, and the engine is capable of making a full seamless world without loadings if you want. The necessary part for seamless work is the streaming capacity, and the engine is capable of that.
Thanks for the awesome comment! That was exactly what I thought. The engine is not the problem and you can basically do anything with it, there’s no limitations, only by the creator themselves which is like you said the problem at Bethesda. Bethesda have been lacking in writing and world design with their recent games. I hope they can turn it around!
@@AVVGaming1 Since Emil Pagliarulo's rise-up after Oblivion, everything starts to fucked-up...
@@Gradashy I am 100% in agreement. I’ve seen him talk and I’m going to do a video on him. Really don’t like the way he talks about writing. He said “you could spend 100s of hours writing a masterpiece, but the fans will just end up building shacks for hours” basically saying so there’s no point writing a good story as it would be wasted on them. Terrible attitude
@@AVVGaming1 and the no to design docs is the most absurd thing ever. Sawyer from Obsidian created a complete Table RPG as a design doc just for Pillars of Eternity so they could test it before putting it in the game.
He thinks a design doc is a waste of time because you are always changing it, this is ridiculous, yes you are always changing since paper accepts everything, but that is the work of the Game Designer, update the design doc so everyone is at the same pace.
This guy's approach explains a lot about why Bethesda is falling since Oblivion, many love Oblivion, but we need to admit, was there where a lot of shit started, Skyrim put even more shit in the fan, but it was still enjoyable, Fallout 4 the things started to get weird. And then Fallout 76 and Starfield happened.
@@Gradashy fo4 still has a massive fan base but it was the first Bethesda game that I played and didn’t click with. Why do you think they do these things? Is it arrogance? Like why not just stick to what you know and know works?
Mods are nothing without a game.. but im one that never bothered much about mods (but much respect to the ones who make them). F3 was prob the 1st & i only had basics that fixed stuff like the trader routes, the in game wpns worked fine so idc about modern looking stuff. most cosmetics meant nothing to me, the bug fixes & larger dlc type mods seemed more appealing. Not all players are hyped about them all so why bethesda focus on it & not gameply 1st.. creation club always had problems from when they launched it originally.. it broke my mod list & one of my games back then.. recently fallout london becme an issue bcos steam doesnt have the right version of the game.. everything is messing about !! Nothing has been seamless for them since a modder took the walls out of skyrim !!! and then they gave us starfield loadscreen sim... bethesda have had countless chances to streamline it all.. and Unreal is not a great engine for everything.. some games have struggled with it & have found alternatives recently.
Yeah I confess it here, I’m not really bothered about mods either. Nice to have, but the game itself is far more important. And mods should enchance a game, not fix it! Not make it playable or enjoyable. I think Bethesda need to really think about this one hard! It’s important they get the next one right!
Mods did keep Skyrim relevant for much longer but the game itself was good, it had huge faults but still a very solid game. As I am a moron I don't know how much is the engine and how much is Bethesda's way of doing things. If you made ES6 on Unreal, would it still feel the same as it is in the DNA or would it just show how much the Creation engine holds it back?
I tried Starfield for an hour maybe a couple on gamepass but it did not hook me, but neither did Fallout so could be that I don't care for their shooter games.
I have played starfield, fallout 4 and Skyrim and the latter is miles ahead in my opinion. Fallout 3 and NV I really enjoyed but Skyrim was the king. But they don’t need to change the engine per se, they just need to sort themselves out and make the games we know they can. Giant elder scrolls world map, handcrafted, with the magic Skyrim had! If the game is amazing, the rest will all fall into place!
@@AVVGaming1 I don't want the game to be too big, I would rather just have one province as the other games. One well made province is much better then a half-baked Tamriel. I want the game to be hand crafted just filled with content, secrets etc.
They can just improve the Creation engine . I doubt I would get more then 100 hours in a UE5 bethesda game
I know! It’s basically an engine that they can customise freely right? It can be wiggled to do anything they want. Maybe it’s just Bethesda and the way they use it keeping it very simple? Like the like of animations in dialogue is strange for example.
I really like Starfield but I think modding the game will be pain this time around. Hope I'm wrong tho ^^
I think a lot will come down to this new DLC. It’s more of hand crafted content. If they can do well with that, bring players back and show what starfield had the potential to do, more modders may give it a chance! We will have to wait and see!
I've made some silly mods (just for myself, nothing public) and yes, the creation kit is both archaic and easy
but I don't think bethesda keep using that engine because it's easier for modders -- that would be 100% BS
I think they're just stubborn and petty
Haha stubborn and petty for sure! The way they responded to all the criticism for starfield was crazy! They said the fans just were wrong and couldn’t appreciate a good game. That’s really petty lol
@@AVVGaming1 it was kinda the same with fo76. pete hines was like "haters gonna hate" right in the middle of the disastrous lunch. oh well..
Honestly people are so ungrateful its funny. Be thankful they even allow you to use their tools to make stuff, they are not obligated to do so.
I feel like Bethesda were the first to real offer that and now it’s starting to become more common place.
Mods are the only reasons I play any of their games or buy, they’re just not that good on their own 😂
I agree if they dropped mods completely it could be the end of them. They need to keep them for sure!
Its enough of 1996 Bethesda games. We need something else of them! At least if they didnt put out games like fallout 4 and starfield...
That’s the thing. Mods or not, the games gotta be good in the first place. Starfield was not and it’s bringing all these problems to light. Fallout 4 sold well and a lot of people enjoyed it, but the problems were starting to creep in in that game. Witcher 3 arrived same year as fo4 and took the awards.
@@AVVGaming1 Myself included have enjoyed fallout 4 but I remember when it came out I felt it ""worse"" than Skyrim. At least in graphic quality. And totally agree TW3 landed poorly and it became a masterpiece!
@@yey2wavy999 it’s funny, when fallout 4 dropped I was playing it right. Got to diamond city did a few sidequests and told my friend “I think this might be my new favourite”. Then I don’t know what it is, but there’s a point where you just lose interest? Like it starts to feel like work? I can play Skyrim all day and night. Fallout 4 is not the same. I honestly can’t put my finger on why though
@@AVVGaming1 I agree with the games needing to be good in the first place. As someone that sank a lot of a hours into Bethesda games from Morrowind and onward, no amount of mods people make that could do some overhaul like turn Skyrim into (Great Value) Dark Souls will matter compared to having the game be good. I enjoyed Fallout 4 for what it was worth but even then I saw myself not really being into it until the RNG gave me an actual fun weapon in a double barrel with explosive shots. And then some years later meanwhile, I'm going into Daggerfall after seeing someone made a sourceport from the ground up, I felt instantly hooked on it despite not being into it originally years ago. I honestly wouldn't mind if at the very least for Bethesda to have their games be good, at least give me some depth. All this after seeing how Daggerfall had that in not being afraid to tell me "you failed the quest you were given" and facing some consequence that had more than just "this NPC is mad at me" like in Skyrim or Fallout 4, like an actual reputation hit with a faction.
9:55 i literally asked myself this yesterday...
Seems a lot to ask I feel. I just feel like Bethesda left the world purposely empty and is now asking modders to fill it.
I'm a mod author (god I hate that moniker, it's so pretentious. it should be called 'douchebags editing spreadsheets") so I know first hand how absolutely busted NetiGameBreation Engine is. It's an excersize in self-flagellation and I can only surmise the devs use it because they're all masochists with a migraine fetish.
Admittedly, I'm only familiar with the Fallout 4 iteration of Creation Engine (the most broken one...yay!) . You can never use the Creation Engine in a straightforward way. It always has to be some hacky, bassackwards workaround approach to "Trick" it into doing the thing you want it to do. Hell, you literally can't even _use_ the game editor without first modding it. You have to mod the game engine before you can mod the game. Bethesda divided by -zero.. twice.
Thanks for the comment and awesome insight! So basically it’s not clean, it’s something you have to “make it work” somehow. So in your opinion, they should probably change it then? Because if the engine limits them and is incredibly difficult to control for modders, what happens when a newer game on a new engine cracks the code and makes a more user friendly efficient modding tool? Bethesda have to sort that before that happens or it’s gonna be tough for them.
@@AVVGaming1
The old chestnut "they need a new game engine" completely misses the point, as most people think _that's the problem._ Yes, they aught to, because it was built during an ancient era of technology, and has limitations that other engines have surpassed for years, but it's not the problem with Bethesda. Saying their game engine is the cause of their problems is the craftsman blaming the tools for the shoddy work. Even if they had an engine that was 10x more powerful than URE5, the games would still have stupid plotlines, terrible dialogue, pointless mechanics, and be _r-i-i-i-ddled with flubbitus._ There'd also probably be microtransactions and battlepass shoehorned in there somewhere. Starfield released relatively bugfree. I mean, of all the dozens of videos I've watched talking about it.. bugs are not at the forefront, or they're not even mentioned at all. That's usually the main point people bring up with Bethesda games. So that tells me that no matter if it was bugged to hell or squeaky clean.. the other issues are so bad they drown out the petty technical foibles.
I don't know what you mean by new game engine makes a more user friendly modding tool? The creation kit isn't the creation engine, nor is it a "modding tool." It's just the game editor they use at Bethesda. I can't change the physics or lighting engines, but I can change how they behave in the game. Mods and DLC are closely similar, so what determines what get's categorized as either depends on how the editor was used. If Bethesda made it in studio, it's DLC. If some douchebag made it while drunk (like I usually do), it's a mod.
Modding tools would be things like Mod Managers, LOOT, xEdit, and the plethora of scripts written by modders that add all sorts of new functions to it like LODGen, TexGen, and the absolute GOAT CheckPrevisibines. Modders make their own tools, just like game studios make their own tools (aka, the game engine).
Unless your me, who can't program jack shit so I just use all their free stuff. YOINK!
@@brovid-19 yes I agree. Starfield had basically no bugs. And if the game was amazing and the only issues were limitations set by the engine, then we could say okay yeah it’s just that. Bethesda would be great with UE5 etc but it’s not that all. Give them any engine and it’s gonna be below bar because there’s just a massive lack of quality in writing, world building and pretty much everything. I’m going to do a lot of research for a video I want to do soon “the fall of Bethesda” and cover it from the very beginning to where we are now. But, you hear so many people say “as long as they have that creation engine, they’ll never get back to the top” and it’s not that which is the problem. Thank you for sharing too, I have incredibly limited knowledge on modding and it’s great to learn from people like yourself
@@AVVGaming1 take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm just some asshole on the Internet. I'm an authority on nothing but my own ignorance, thanks, i appreciate you.
Bethesda would be better off with a new engine, but it wouldn't matter if they use it as poorly as they do now, nor would it fix the maelstrom of issues they have as a whole.
And modding is not as big a deal as the uninitiated may think.. it's mostly just some assholes editing spreadsheets, not rocket surgery. :p cheers mate
@@brovid-19 haha I just like chatting with people about the games because it’s interesting to hear everyone’s perspectives. I think the beauty of gaming is that it’s opinion based. I have other people who swear down FO4 is the greatest game they’ve ever played, even starfield! I just like to learn all this and sort of hear ideas. Just a big fan of gaming lol
Bethesda didn't help themselves by releasing the Next Gen Update, overwriting their Old Gen Version. Played and enjoyed my Fallout 4 for 9 Years, then suddenly, they decide they want to break your mods, again...
Breaking mods, mod collections, and stopping Fallout London working.
Adding Creation Club content, that can't be removed, unless done manually from the files.
9 Years of playing Fallout 4... and the people who bought Fallout 4, are not even taken into consideration, with updates.
They should have release Next Gen Update, as a new version. Like with Skyrim SE.
Fallout 4 LE
Fallout 4 SE
Hear hear! Totally agree with what you’re saying. I really have listened to people’s comments and I have only heard people say how it was a negative thing having the update. It just upset a bunch of people and no one really liked it, plus is delayed London. And what did it honestly change? Not a lot. Not worth the sacrifice.
Also this update seems to have garnerd gog a fair bit of attention. Surely helped them along that Fallout London is hosted there as well, not denying that. Just funny how that went.
@@bazzy5644 GOG aka Good Old Games... has a version of Fallout 4 that isn't updated. So people are flocking to use that, so they can just play the Old Fallout 4, with mods and no Creation Club content.
I've never been to it, and I only found out about GOG from a post in one of my mods...
They should put forth a polished product, instead we get a turd. Modders then have to polish it for them while they rake in the big $ and move onto the next steaming pile. Bethesda needs a home run next time, Starfield was an expensive experience and not worth the price of admission.
I think they generally expect the modders to fill in those 1000 planets. You’re spot on though, Bethesda have to hit a home run for their next game or I feel that will be the end of any fan trust they still have. They’ve not yet ruined the elder scrolls series yet, so that’s why there’s still a glimmer of hope!
I'd say classic doom rivals skyrim if your a fan of boomer shooters, theirs more fan made content.
I quit playing Starfield a few weeks after release, for obvious reasons. About a week ago, I decided to try Starfield with mods. The gameplay with mildly improved, specifically due to the simplified digipick hacking and more enemies mods, but aside from that, the game is still not worth playing. No amount of tweaking can polish this particular turd.
Yes and that’s the mods available. Nothing special. It’s just that the game is so far from being a good time. The gap is huge to breach and it would take days of work to turn it around. I don’t make mods, but I would worry about spending hours of my free time for no one to play it. That time could be spent on a more popular game. They really let themselves down with it and what’s ironic is that Todd called it a modders paradise. Because of how empty it is. He honestly expected modders to finish the whole game. Why would they do that?
@@AVVGaming1 Todd has been huffing his own farts for years. Fallout 76 was the death knell. Starfield was the funeral. I'm old, so I remember a time when Electronic Arts was a spectacular developer. You just KNEW any Sega Genesis game with the EA yellow tab was gonna be an absolute barn burner. But, what is Electronic Arts today? The digital anti-Christ is what EA is. Bugthesda has gone the way of EA, and there is no turning back.
im a modder, and Unreal is a modders dream. It's literally a completely open creation kit!
Why do you think Bethesda are so reluctant to move? Just because of familiarity and training?
Comment for the Algorithm
Thank you! Response for the algorithm too!
Of course mods are helping BGS. Games like Doom that are 30 years old are only alive because of mods. People who complain about the “age of the engine” would be shocked to learn that there is code that is decades old in Linux, Windows, etc. SF has its problems, but it’s people’s expectations that are the biggest problem IMO. SF will continue to improve and will outlast other games, thanks to mods.
I think that was the point in that the engine is definitely not the problem. Starfield did not wow me but that being said, we could be here in 5 years time and it could be a completely different game. We will wait and see!
10:35
Fool speaking out his ass
Go play old BGS games
Like Arena or dagger fall
It's a large procedural world
Yes 100%! Sorry I didn’t mention all those and yes they were procedural generated as well. I haven’t played them but I’m doing a first playthrough of dagger fall soon. Someone says they want to just watch to see my reaction to the first dungeon lol I want to play and experience this games so I can do justice for these games. Sorry for not covering them but I’m rather new at RUclips and learning as I go. Thanks for the feedback.
with all the fixex for bugs and cool shit since morrowind? wen some deve put the deve tools on the cd by mistake? yes moders caried ther game with ther out dated engines since 2010
Definitely helped them a lot. Fixed the games. If they released with no mods some of their quests would be broken permanently
If Bethesda announced a game and said it wouldn't allow mods, they wouldn't meet sales quota
It would certainly send shock waves across the gaming world. If it was a masterpiece with the promise of future nodding it might make it. But if the game disappoints and there’s no modding, then it may be over for Bethesda
it helps. and now that theres paid mods you got small dev teams making DLC sized mods thats cheaper than DLCs in nearly any game. like the mod to skyrim Kingah and his team put out recently. Also your player numbers are just looking at steam players, the vast majority of this games players are on console, by an insane margin. bethesda came out some time ago where they gave the numebers, and it was around 5 million weekly players, and the average playtime is 40 hours for a player(this is not weekly play time).
People say the modding may hold em back cause "modders will fix it" but the truth is that some of their issues are simply issues with the open world genre, some are the way they make games, and some of em are generally corporate issues and their biggest issues is that their games are made for the weakest console. people act like the engine cant do anything and is outdated (unreal engine 5 is older) but all modern longterm engines like unreal just updates their engines like bethesda does. the difference is that Unreal is a company that solely makes engine for all games. bethesda has an engine to allow em to do what they want with their games.
if they switched to unreal we wouldnt have the modding community, cause its proprietary and licenced, and it would be a nightmare to even get out somewhat similar tool as creation kit. and insanely expensive. everyone who has seen licenses in IT know how strict they are, how expensive they are and how insanely expensive it is to do something custom.
Another company who makes somewhat similar games, with their own engine, and modding kit, is CDPR. creators of witcher and cyberpunk2077, and they have nearly the exact same issues, inconsistencies and their launches have always been a mess. its why its so hilarious to see people compare cyberpunk after 3 years of intensive surgery vs starfield on release. cause if you compared them both on release it would look completely different(cyberpunk was a bigger mess, and i got no clue how gamers forgot about it so soon)
Personally i think Bethesdas biggest issue is animation, cause some of it looks fine, but a lot of it looks so bad and so bare bone, i cant believe theres actual paid people making it (im not talking about facial animation, those are procedural animated). and they often lack so much animation. the Fallout 4 reload animations are a great example of this. or the COMPLETE lack of combat animations for melee in starfield. i got no clue why they just didnt copy some of the mods from skyrim, paid the modder and added it to starfield.
And last thing, all their games have been fleshed out and fixed by DLCs, Starfield still havent gotten a single DLC yet. and this DLC will have the handcrafted content in one place. id say give it 3 years like cyberpunk got, (no mans sky needed 6 years) cause its pretty obvious in this genre that first relase is trash. also theyre planning to do a dual engine for next game(another engine for the graphics from what ive heard), and i think its obvious that Starfield on release is kinda an incomplete base for the DLCs to build upon
btw sorry for writing so much, but theres so many inaccuracies in your video. like how you said modders wont mod starfield. starfield got modders who havent modded for 8 years to come back and make mods, how do i know? cause you can litterally find videos of em stating it, recently. and if youre in their discords or streams you can ask em. creation kit for starfield is a lot easier to learn and has a lot of QoL features. and now that theres paid mods, modders can finally get paid, donations never provided any decent or signifacnt amount of money. theres also a lot more new modders, because the console market is a big one.
I think it’s fair to give starfield the same amount of time as cyberpunk as you say. As far as inaccuracies in the video, I apologise but I did say I’m not an expert in this matter. If there’s a strong modding community then that’s great! I am surprised by the player count though, that sounds like a lot and if that’s true then it would make it one of the most successful games ever and as of rihht now surely? Although I do agree with all of your points! Sorry for the errors in the video, it’s not my area of expertise. I just hear a lot of people asking Bethesda to switch from creation to a new engine and I wanted to sort of discuss it. I don’t think it’d be the right move.
Bethesda would've died long ago without mods. The difference is that they used to make fun games than were modded for years to come. Now they make boring games that have to be modded in order to feel "completed".
I've tried to play Starfield some times but the world feels so disconnected, and there is such a big quality difference between fetch quests and main quests it's overwhelming. Descompensated would be the word for Starfield.
That’s exactly my thought. It’s not the engine and trading it out is a bad move if there’s no mod support. They definitely need to leave that in. However, the game has to be good in the first place. If the game just isn’t good, then people won’t play it which means mods wouldn’t be experienced and as a result modders would create. I feel like Bethesda making the worlds so empty in hopes that modders would fill it is unacceptable
Of course the Engine holds Bethesda back, otherwise Starfield wouldn't have ended up the way it did. But if you watch the recently uploaded GDC Talk Will Shen and Daryl Bringer did at the start of the year you realize the problems at the studio run far, far deeper than just the engine. The studio sounds like a disorganized ambitionless mess that just does throw things together on a quest by quest basis without any planning at all and this also explians why their games are such incoherent messes to begin with.
I have no idea how to fix this, but something has to be done, that is clear as day.
Thanks for your comment I’m going to go and check out that GDC talk now and see what it’s all about. It’s so sad to hear it though.
_Befesda_
lol
It does not matter what happens its a lose lose because they are owned by Microsoft seen a very very bad game for PlayStation get better reviews and love then most Xbox owned games the only exception to this was high fi rush xbox has so many hatters its probably best for them to say f pc because hate to say it pc fans and worse then sony fans so u want the games to b better stop putting them on pc ea finally realized that pc players are the worst in the business so yes mods are worse then no mod 2 a point skyrim fallout 4 are only well liked because Microsoft did not own them yet so pc has to go
I did a video on my support for hifi rush and how Xbox had let them down. I actually have a lot to say about Xbox practice as a business. However, that video got so much hate! I’ve learned to tip toe around that subject because Xbox fans will come and attack lol
@@AVVGaming1 hear is why pc needs to be put in its place they cry when a game dev puts it on anything but steam they refuse to play anything that is not on steam for the dumbest reson hackers so if u are that worried about ur personal info then maybe stay off the internet honestly anything can be hacked online so if that is pc players biggest issues gog is the only safe gaming dev because its drm free and steam is actually getting sued because of pc players making it a monopoly
Starfield is domed, yep their main problems are the disjointed travel experience and boring square maps and you can't even flight your own ship, i mean even no man sky when they released the game in crap state you could fly your ship everywhere, so yep game is dead
the game had 5 million players a few weeks ago.
@@GoalOrientedLifting Game Pass Players, overwhelmingly so. They will move on and forget about starfield as soon as the DLC is out and another disappointment like the base game was.
I would have been worried about releasing it after seeing Nms. It was always going to be compared. My main gripe with the game was the procedural generated content and finding the same dungeons over and over again. It made me not want to explore as it wasn’t guaranteed I’d find something new. Whereas elder scrolls and fallout did.
Don't even put this idea out there. It would be the end. Some of the last games I actually enjoy playing and only because of mods.
I think the ideas been out there for a while, a lot of people asking Bethesda to change engine. But if they do it, if they lose mods, I fear it would be a bad move. Even if the game was better than anything they’ve done. Mods are vital to the longevity. I would say to stick with the engine, but up the writing in the quests etc.