Final Fantasy XVI Review Discussion and Spoilercast | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 315
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2023
- It's finally time for us to gather and talk about Square Enix's brand-new PlayStation 5 RPG, Final Fantasy XVI. Frankly, it's a complex game to dissect because it does so much, and a lot of what it does it happens to do very well. Thus, we've assembled a great cast -- Dustin, Gene Park, Rick Hoeg, and yours truly (Colin) -- in order that we might get into the very meat of what makes Final Fantasy XVI tick. From plot, to characters, to gameplay, to aesthetic, and so much more, let's get into everything we loved (and didn't!) when it comes to what will be remembered as one of 2023's best titles. And that's saying something in a calendar year packed with so much quality. So hit play, already, and accept the truth!
Игры
I’m pretty sure Barnabas was the one sent Benedikta’s head to Hugo in order to manipulate him. I never thought Cid or Clive sent the head but maybe I’m wrong.
1:54:07 I'm sure someone mentioned this, but Cid nor Clive did that. It was Barnabas/Slepnir/Waloed who did that bit at the behest of Ultima to my understanding.
Yea, I thought that was pretty obvious cuz it made no sense for either Cid or Clive to do.
Agreed, came here to say that. It put kupka into a rage and allowed them to start controlling him
Yep, I was just about to say that too.
Thank you! How did it get past 4 different people?
Not a single mention of Gav. Shoutout to my boy Gav.
I was also a big fan of Tarja.
Dlc idea. Uncle Byron is Leviathans Dominant. And when asked why he's never brought it up before, he just shrugs and says 'nobody ever asked'
This is way too perfect 🤣
I chucked.
The fill in the blank style questions need to go.
Definitely. Breaks the flow of conversation from being organic to artificial. Felt like test questions. I'm surprised Colin didn't receive any pushback fro the panel on those silly ass questions.
This was the Hoeg and Gene show apparently
While I really wished Matty could've been on this, I loved Hoeg's and Gene's contributions to the conversation. Loved that they had history with the series, like Colin.
What? Titan was the best Eikon fight in the game, and the music was incredible! Some of the best in the game!
No shot. Bahamut and Garuda both destroyed that boring ass fight.
@@user-dj9iu2et3r no, they didn’t
Titan looks cool visually but it wasn't that great. It got pretty tedious when you just kept smacking his big arms.
It went in for wayyy to long
Honestly thought Titan was the best Eikon fight. It was of epic proportion and felt exciting
Ahh bummed matty couldn't make it
True. I wanted to hear his more sour take on the game.
@@mexicanzoidburg8072 I think between the 4 of them they voiced most of his criticisms, but it still would have been nice to have him there.
I honestly believe Mattybwas afraid of the backlash he was going to get from his take on the game.. 🤣
I was surprised that nobody on here saw the crystals as a analogy for fossil fuels. Also, wasn't the "hooded man" sometimes Ultima getting into the mind of Clive to manipulate him? The hood didn't always look like Joshua's.
They did. Glen literally mentions how yoshi p said it was an analofy for oil
I love Hoeg and appreciate his input on the game industry and game mechanics at large. I have noticed though, that it seems when it comes to his criticisms of story, I feel as though he might just be missing the point to some of these call outs. In this review and God of War Ragnarok, it seems a lot of his problems with mishaps or plot holes come from him not connecting dots that are in fact set up in the story around it. Either way love the review and glad to see he's doing well and able to come back on and play games.
I think Ultima would've worked better if he was handled like he was with Olivier. Possessing people around Rulers and Eikons like Sleipnir, or Benedikta's Attendant. Then being revealed towards the end.
Also I think Joshua was revived and Clive died but I saw an explanation that the ending is opened to two possibilities; Logos v. Mythos. Joshua is the Logos ending where logically he's the writer that carries Moss' chornicles around, and Clive likely healed him with Raise that Ultima wanted Clive's body for. Clive is the Mythos or myth option where he had many names and there are implications he could've survived but there are no facts on his side to guarantee that option.
What an amazing discussion! I really need to pay for your patreon. Would love to see this type of content sooner. Good job overall.
Take a shot every time Hoeg interrupts someone you’ll be wasted pretty quick.
OMG finally listening to this. Hoeg you and I saw this game exactly the same. Amazing. Thanks for putting my thoughts into words!
thx collin for that heads up on cyberpunk spoilers
Did everyone play on Performance mode? I appreciated the sharp visuals of Quality mode but once I tried Performance in combat I couldn’t go back to 30fps. The visuals do get pretty fuzzy in performance mode tho
Great show! Still working through my NG+ playthrough, but, criticisms aside, I've thoroughly enjoyed this game.
Finally got around to listening to this. This was great. Great discussion guys!
I like Hoeg but man was he interrupting a lot. Let others speak their minds Hoeg!
He really wasn’t
He really was
He really was, I’m only an hour in and he’s done it several times.
I like Hoeg but he talked a lot on the God of War podcast too and I didn't appreciate that so I stopped listening. I mainly listen sacred symbols for the main cast, not for their legal analyst...
Interestingly enough, the one thing that caught my attention with FF 16 was how similar the story felt to Tales of Arise.
Really? Now I am very interested
Shocked by Hoeg's criticisms, considering he gave it a 9.5/10 in his review
This is the disconnect I’m having trouble understanding. I beat it, but I did so begrudgingly. It felt dated, and seemed to waste my time. I didn’t even like the music, and without droning on I have an argument to back up all my issues. I hate numbered scores, but I’d give it a 6/10.
@@drgonzo123I agree. I feel like I played a different game from everyone else.
@@drgonzo123yeah I’m surprised they praised the MUSIC so much out of all things. The one standout track to me was the Eikon battle theme (where it’s crazy chorus for the first half and then goes into the “waltz” as Gene mentioned). “Where the Heart Is” was another touching track that you hear at the hideout.
Everything else sounded pretty standard. Compare this soundtrack to FF7R (Tifa’s theme? Aeris’ theme? Cornello’s Mansion? Come on… so many great tracks!) and it’s not even close!
@@user-dj9iu2et3r FF7 Remake seemed to have more original music than a brand new FF entry. I like the combat music but the same two constantly? come on.
I saw the Active Time Lore/Tomes as a very sophisticated evolution of Jiminy's Journal from the Kingdom Hearts games. I can see KH4 will take a lot from this game in these aspects. So many KH games worth of convoluted lore would greatly benefit from a character like Vivian.
I would personally rather have the story be written well enough that it wouldn’t have been necessary.
Overall: first time I’m saying this but I’m actually kinda disappointed by this “Spoilercast.”
I feel like they didn’t get into the minutiae of the actual “story” enough. Would have liked to see a “beat by beat” discussion of the story where each member got to give their thoughts on what happened. I also would have liked to hear Colin defend his opinion on the game more considering how glowingly he talks about it.
Side note: Neither Cid nor Clive sent Benedikta’s head to Kupka. That’s so out of alignment with their characters..
I think we’re supposed to realize it was Barnabas or his crony that did it.
Overall, I’d give FF16 a solid 8/10. Really enjoyed the characters/cut-scenes, definitely missed the RPG-ness that FF is known for, as a lover of action games I thought the combat was passable but not GREAT, and I could have done with 1/3 of the side-quests.
watch resonant arc if you want beat by beat discussion
where's Matty?! I wanted the back and forth between him and colin!
Invitation rescinded
Not only was it hugely inspired by Game of Thrones, but also Attack on Titan. It is wild.
Loved the game, but hated the ending.
Also completely disagree that Clive is dead. But that's what I hate about the end of the game - the blatant ambiguity on characters when the rest of it has strong messages. And as for FF15...they continued it and ended it on a book. Pretty wild.
Yes attack on titan meets game of thrones is how I would describe this game honestly wish Ultima was never part of the game and it was just about waring nations with each having 1 ekion and Clive being the Erin character
@@Sheckyize What's worse is how Ultima's backstory and well...everything...kind of just comes off half-assed and vague for vagueness sake. Let alone the ending being ambiguous and non-definitive considering how the themes for the entire story are CRYSTAL (ha) clear and very on point. Especially considering how ff14 endings are so satisfying...this was a huge letdown.
Jesus Hoeg I love ya and super happy to see you doing well but my god I don’t see how you can say you loved this game but you didn’t mention almost anything positive about it. Something you gotta work on my friend when doing reviews is balance. Also you got a few things wrong about ultima but like you said “no one can change your mind about ultima” so why bother I guess.
Other than that you all did a great review. It’s funny it’s 2 1/2 hours but it felt like you guys only scratched the surface. We demand a part 2!
He’s super negative about every aspect of the game and constantly derails the conversation to come back to whatever he wants to talk about. I’m at the end now where Colin is clearly trying to bring some positivity into the conversation he says he wants to list some side quests he likes and can’t name 3 before Hoeg needs to derail again so he can talk about his critique on another part of the story. I’d personally love to see them do this again with a different set of hosts.
Nah… Hoeg was fine. This game simply HAS a lot of negatives to speak about. I honestly didn’t disagree with anything Hoeg said lol.
I can only speak about myself but I enjoyed the game even though I was bored as a fucking rock during the slow parts of the game.
@@user-dj9iu2et3r then maybe play the game again lol or look stuff up. Hoeg got shit straight up wrong lol a couple things.
@@HiggySmallsNZYou’ll be fine. This is a discussion among gamers, not FF16 fanboys
Tales of vesperia also did the eco shit with blastia
Very good convo between all of you guys. I’m almost certain that DLC they do is going to be about Leviathan. Will be very cool to see done sometime soon.
Just started watching, would you guys consider adding timestamps
Welcome to the Hoeg hates FF16 spoilercast where he derails every conversation and interrupts everyone saying something positive about the game to say how much he didn't like anything.
Took me 88 hours to Plat. Overall I really enjoyed the game. I do agree with the people who aren’t happy about the side quests. There are a handful of meaningful quests near the end, but the vast majority of the rest are nothingburgers
On my NG+ Final Fantasy run I figured out a great ability combo (centered around Dancing Steel and Lightning Rod) that melted most bosses
For me it was Ignition, Lightning Rod and Gigaflare. Those three being used during a stagger did incredible amounts of damage. Stagger, then throw down Lightning Rod and go HAM with Gigaflare. Then finish off with Ignition into the Limit Break. It was devestating!
The gameplay sucks dude really you like it ? Are you a casual player ?
I definitely didn’t know Clive was Iffrit as it wasn’t made obvious in the prologue, so not sure what you guys are talking about. Clive’s voice when the phoenix was being killed was a little strange
Thank you Dustin 🙏🏼
donald saying “i am become death” while casting Zeta-Flare is FUCKING HYSTERICAL!! 😂😂😂
Elemental magic damage would have been great in this game
Also Clive didn’t know about the undying, only the king knew of them
Well i havent finished the game yet. So ill listen for a little till spoilers start then fome back later lol
Playing FF for the first time ever, with XVI being my introduction is fantastic. That intro battle with its homage to LOTR The Two Towers immediately hooked me.
The iron kingdom was literally one dungeon, I felt cheated
I agree about Ultima . Every time he spoke I couldn't give two shits.
Have a fantastic wedding day Colin. Happy days ❤️
This made me realize Donald Duck is the strongest mage in final fantasy universe. Mind blowing 🎉
This game is essentially Ff14 with a different combat system.
They used a lot of the spells, abilities and phases from the Ff14 raid bosses, UI is the same, the way they do MSQ in 14 and mmo tier side quests that you can and should ignore. The +sign quests to distinguish the things you should pay attention to.
The story is essentially a heavensward remix with ascian types kind of shoehorned in. Dungeons are just a corridor with encounter arenas. Gear and stats are inconsequential. The map and zone system are identical.
This is not to say I didn't like it, just very obvious to anyone who's played Ff14 through at least heavensward
I was so disappointed that there wasn't an airship.
I really liked the story, but as a RPG fan, it left a lot to be desired.
The sidequest were boring (I'm used to fetch quest btw) and I don't like the last part of the game because of the color palette, it started with such vibrant environments that the change es kind of jarring
This game dragged and dragged and never ended. It had many epic, fun boss fights, but mostly everything in between was tedious and uninteresting. I don’t care if the game slows down for character development, make it engaging. That’s your job.
Hearing Hoeg complain the entire time made this SC pretty annoying and tiresome, not gonna lie.
If you do the blacksmiths side quest you see that thr village couldn't survive without crystals wnd magic because they needed it to light firr to make swords so thats how the technology advancement to make fire eithout magic comes into play in a good way of showing the affects on society from destroying the crystals
Bro , Titan's fight was fucking epic. None of the other fights came close to matching the epicness or scale or music or anything 😂
Agreed. They tried to top the Titan fight with Bahamut's, but that didn't work for me at all.
Bahamut and Ultima were better.
When will colin man up and talk about game pass games not selling ?! I'm looking forward to it.
It’s always Joshua as the hooded figure, the Phoenix is forever
Was a little surprised, no mention of the performance? It's quite sluggish at times outside of combat. And was a little surprised Colin hadn't explored the combat much, with lots of trophies tied to the Eikons. Just trying out the first 3 is kind of missing a bunch of the gameplay imo. Also, similar to Colin in missing out the game, Dustin hadn't done much of the side questing and almost no hunts in the game judging by the trophy list.
Been waiting months for this one lol
I like Rick a lot but he’s gotta learn not to interrupt as much. Otherwise love these discussions
Loved the game but was kinda bummed that the type of magic you use doesn't really seem to matter at all
I loved the game but my issues with it was it was too ez and that ending sucks
If got about half way through and got bored. The boss battles were really long and drawn out. More of a button masher than anything 😐
I was expecting this game to be a lot more open like dragons dogma. There was a lot of stop and go and a lot of those annoying visual markers telling you where to go that made me feel like I was on rails.
In regards to Clive not knowing he was Ifrit:
I don't know if this has been brought up yet but I think the reason Clive and Joshua don't realize Clive was Ifrit is because they primed in a very emotional estate.
They both just had their whole families murdered in front of them and lost complete control. Graruda, Titan and Bahamat all did this and lost complete control. Now some how Dion realized he did the destruction of his city, but he's been knowing about his powers of Bahamut for awhile. Garuda and Titan both die afterwards so they don't have the chance to understand what chaos they just caused. Just my thoughts.
Loving the podcast, thank you for everything!
Perfect timing, just beat this last night! Tip for others: skip the side quests that drag it down. I'd probably give this a 'good' or a 7/10. What a gorgeous game with a cool story and fun combat.
Man I love 15 so much I always stand by it and say it’s underrated. It’s kinda shitty Gene just outright spoiled the ending.
Even thought I much prefer FFVII Remakes combat, I still loved FFXVI. It's easily my GOTY so far. My only complaints was lack of actual RPG elements and no playable party and it was kinda easy.
I loved the story, the characters was fantastic, all of them was great but Dion was the standout character for me. His entire arc was so good.
I also liked the world, writing and the music was good but not Soken's best. That still belongs to FFXIV
FF 16 is one of my favorite games all time
It’s such a long game, I feel like you all forgot a lot. Joshua didn’t tell Clive because he believed that ultima needed them together
Boy theres some strange takes in this...
The side quests build into something amazing, you missed out if you didn’t do them
Missed opportunity..how could you not ask everyone what their favorite eikon power is? Everyone has one. Mine has to be gouge. It’s the one I keep thinking about when I think of playing the game when I’m not playing
I miss the old school IGN style spoilercasts. These podcasts are more nitpicking than anything. If you guys truly loved the game then talk about it! This is 95% review discussion and 5% spoilercast.
While I have a lot of issues with the gameplay the story was top notch. I love the ending, the entire game was building to Clive dying, I'm so glad they followed through with that
The soundtrack is so good!!! Im going to wait for Starfield to come out to make my final decision, but as of right now, soundtrack of the year for me.
I’m surprised you guys were so negative on the game. I loved it, and Ultima is awesome
I thought the quests were pretty good for world building and characters but they just had garage rewards.
Garbage*
Been a good bit since I've played the game but I remember majority of them being boring, whether it be poor inciting incidents or activities. Though, there were a handful that were genuinely pretty great for establishing character or the world but they were few and far between. There were a couple near the end that also just confused me because they should've been main quests since they involved Joshua, Torgal, Jill, or Gav. You can apparently even outright miss getting Ambrosia since it's optional content.
I honestly think the game was disappointing. And I also think in 5-10 years, when the graphics aren’t that impressive anymore, nobody will go back to this game like people go back to FF6/7/9/10. We’ll all just think “Oh right, that happened…”.
Since this is a review discussion, reply to me if you want to know why.
I really enjoyed XVI. It felt like a full fledged cohesive experience that didn't have significant development issues like the last few. The combat, music, characters, and story were engaging. I have issues with how they handled itemization and treasure chests (bat fangs and 3 gil wtf) but it was an experience I will not forget. I hope they do go multi-platform with both Xbox and PC in the future releases. Just eliminate the narrative from fanboys and grow the brand already.
SPOILERS!
1. Clive clearly used the power of the Phoenix on Joshua before sacrificing himself.
2. Clive’s survival is left purposefully ambiguous. After washing ashore, it looks like he uses the Phoenix on himself. It may have worked a little, but fades out and his hand turns to stone.
3. I thought it was clear that the head was not sent by Cid, and that Joshuas mom’s actions were clearly orchestrated by Ultima/Waloed.
4. It was stated somewhere that Joshua thought that if Ifrit and Pheonix were united it would be a bad thing. He later understood this wasn’t true. That is why he tracked Clive but didn’t reveal himself.
5. The Undying were never revealed to Clive because it was unnecessary. Lord Rosfield and Joshua would have been the only Rosarians that would have need to know about them.
A true FF VI remake would have me both very excited and terrified… those are my fuzzy childhood memories you’re messing with. But after 7 remake let’s do it.
So all 4 didn't see Clive revive Joshua? 🤔 surprising
He didn’t revive Joshua?
@@xwers1234 thought he did
@@xwers1234 He did
I think it was a 9/10 the story didnt end up as good as I wanted but really liked the characters and the Bahamut boss battle was probably one of the greatest of all time. It went from godzillas duking it out, to panzer dragoon up towards the sky, to zone of enders in space - INSANE!
It felt like DBZ mixed with Godzilla in it's epic battles and cutscenes. I really enjoyed the game, characters, and the story but the side missions, lack of difficulty, no exploration, and minimal customization in stats/rpg elements held it back. I'd say 7.5/10.
My first Final Fantasy game. Great story! Boss battles are epic and spectacular. Great vocal performance. Music is generally outstanding, but can come across as a bit schizophrenic when you go from exploring, to combat to exploring to combat. Combat can be a bit button mashy. Side quest dumps suck! Too long. I was skipping dialogue for side quests in the final third, which I've never done before.
Overall, really enjoyed it. Blockbuster experience.
Been looking forward to this one!!
Hoeg is a professional pessimist, enough with him on spoiler casts please, respectfully.
I mean, the game is nothing to write home about. The story was good for 60% of the game. Side missions are terrible. Combat gets stale. It isnt an RPG so its pretty basic. This is a VERY common take.
It’s my game of the year unless Spiderman steals the show
Such a good game. Instant classic for me
It's actually a mediocre, play it safe game. But it's OK you're allowed to have bad tastes. ❤
I finished this game right before Spiderman 2 went live tonight and I honestly can't think of a single other game ending I despise more. Made me wish I could just go back before I spent 70 hours on it and stop myself from ever buying it, which is wild to consider because the game has some of the most fun, jaw-dropping sequences I've ever experienced in any game, chief among them being Bahamut.
The more I think about it, the more I dislike it, and that's the worst thing I can really say about anything I experience. I resent the fact that so many fun combat mechanics and so many all-time great boss fights are stuck in the shell of what is, for me, maybe the most awkward, stitled, tryhard, and overall worst-written story I've ever played through in a game. I'm so over this obsession with character deaths and these desperate "please take me seriously, I'm a big boy now" tragic endings and writing that feels ironically immature. People have this knee-jerk tendency to go "well happy endings are just clichéd, not everything needs to be happy" and I can't figure out what alternate dimension these people are from, because the only cliche and trope in 99% of "serious" media these days is just misery-p0rn aimed at edgelords.
Meanwhile, some of the most iconic, meaningful, and mature stories of all time, which stick with people for years and years, are ones with happy endings, such as movies like Howl's Moving Castle and Ponyo and Return of the King, and games like God of War: Ragnarok. There's no teenager-esque sense of desperation in those stories, and instead you feel like they're being steered by the wise hand of an incredibly mature person that understands life fully and is at peace with it. Looking back at FF16 my eyes are rolling back into my head thinking about how high-school-teenager-writing-his-first-film-screenplay the whole thing really is.
I'd hinge some hope on the DLC/expansions rectifying the ending, but I know better than to expect a redress, most likely what'll happen is going to be similar to the extra pages that were released after the ending to attack on titan, and it'll just make things worse.
Id say this game did have a happy ending. Sure some bad things happened along the way but humanity survived and thrived through it all. What is "edgelord" about that?
It was a game about war and the end of the world. People are going to die just like in GoW Ragnarok people die.
I do agree though Ragnarok was way better of a game and narrative.
@@gregoryjoslin3173 different people react differently to the same things. is this a tough concept for you to grasp or what?
Are you referring to the final mission being framed as a one way ticket suicide mission in which during the mission our characters do not survive while accomplishing their goals?
Meaningful iconic stories mostly have happy endings yes I can agree to that. But mature they are not. Happy endings most of the time is a.... Childish worldview.
That's how I read it. Made the story feel more real world and more mature. In real war, in real life, people don't come back.
@@bipolarcow the reality is that Ponyo is a more mature piece of media than Berserk, but the internet is plagued with unfulfilled and emotionally stunted millennials desperate to act more mature than they really are by way of the media they consume. if you think ff16's ending automatically makes it a mature work bc it's doing the "grown up" thing and embracing tragedy, you really have no hope.
Are we allowed to speak freely here? Rick was extremely nitpicky, wtf.
This game had such high highs but also such low lows
Mid is so annoying, don't even at me
Finished it. Horrible story, mediocre open-world mechanics, boring combat, bad Performance mode.
8/10 at best.
Hoeg's analysis of everything is spot on! So many flaws that could've been resolved, but still doesn't take away from the game's overall greateness. Jill is underutilized and there's a severe lack of Shiva for sure.
Yeah, Hoeg is right about the story inconsistency
Clive definitely died. And Joshua definitely survived. What was the point of Clive casting a healing spell on Joshua and then showing the result? His curse is healed and he is on the mend. The question is how he got out of there. My suspicion is Dion also survived and got him out of there before origin exploded.
Also, Barnabus and his lackey certainly were the ones to send Kupka Benedikta's head at the order of Ultima.
It’s painfully obvious that Clive survived if you did the Harpocretes side quest. Plus the story is narrated by Clive in the beginning and end. Joshua wasn’t around for all the events so he wouldn’t be able to tell the whole story. It’s stated that Phoenix powers are not able to revive the dead, most likely Clive just didn’t want to see his brother’s mutilated corpse.
Clive definitely survived.
Hoeg was spot on in his narrative assessment.
Absolutely loved this game. Really fell in love with the world, the characters, the gameplay, the music, and the story.
The boss fights were so beautiful and fun and made me audibly scream from joy. Can’t remember the last time a game did that for me.
The side quests, while seemingly pointless at times, all helped to build the world.
Definitely my GOTY and among my top 5 Final Fantasy games.
Spoiler casts have so much potential, fuck the fill in the blank questions. I like the free flow ramble but seperate by topic story, gameplay, and other intangibles. Discuss favorite moments and show them on screen
Do a tad bit of history on the game and development, as a intro Colin
We have the audience and talent and free flow is y'all's speciality but a lil bit tighter production is always welcome
Think about how FF16 oozes production value, I wanna see last stand media be the FF16 of video game media
Hoeg is giving me a stroke every time he interrupts people
Really?
Clive definitely lived.
FF16 is still my GOTY. Well see what Alan Wake 2 and Spider-Man 2 can do to compete otherwise it's an easy pick for me.
!!!Spoilers to Daniel Craig’s final 007 movie!!!
Thank god I found even more compelling arguments for Clive being alive from Hog. I haven’t been as heartbroken with an ending since No time to die.
Hate when that’s done to protagonists, he made Jill a promise, in my mind, he kept it.
Bohammet is my favorite religious figure after Mohammed.
Very fun conversation.
Hoeg critics are insanely professional and deep, given he is a lawyer that doesn't have the time to invest in video games like the rest. He could easily be a recurring guest for this spoiler casts.
He just needs to stop interrupting Colin