@@tubeathrun I think it would have worked because Penny was unselfish and by the 2000 season his knees were so banged up the only thing he could do was be a play-maker. Penny was pretty much a role player by the 2000s. Oh you mean when Penny was 1st-team all-nba and fully healthy? No.
@@mattmmixes nobody would say that Giannis will even be decent back in the 2015, just like you can't say right now that bol bol will win the mvp( but he may)/
Ughhhh...as a Warriors fan, this hurts to remember those days of being the NBA's laughingstock. I'm confused by this video though...the Warriors took Todd Fuller with the 11th pick, not the Magic. It even has the Warriors logo in the image at the 2:36 mark. Played for the Warriors, Heat, Hornets and Jazz in his career. Did I miss something with regards to Andy's commentary here??
Exactly Shaq had chemistry issues with Kobe, and having C-Webb will limit Shaqs touches downlow, and Shaq wouldn't like it, Shaq will bolt from the Magic Just like he did with Penny.
I’m from Orlando and this is how I remember, they couldn’t afford Webber because they paid shaq so much. Penny was booed in the beginning because he got the wrath of the fans wanting Webber and he never forgot that. Shaq has no loyalty, or ability to hit a free throw and an ego bigger than him. Penny was a good dude, he made huge donations to a non profit organization that my grandmother founded to find missing and endangered children, and that money alone kept the doors open for a while.
Damn the 03 clip of C. Webb crush me to see again...... I remember when it happened that broke my heart for real to see my big guy go down like that for the Kings
@bojo perez Orlando was pretty much pretty rich at that time. Shaq and Penny made Orlando extremely popular, they were just as popular as Jordan and the Bulls. Orlando low-balled Shaq, they were only willing to pay him $13.5 million a year in a course of 7 years ($94.5 million). LA offered Shaq a 7 year deal worth $117 million. Actually Orlando matched LAs offer, but by then Shaq made up his mind. Shaq felt disrespected by Orlando too much and went to LA.
What would be interesting is the flip side. The warriors keep Penny and trade someone else with the two picks to fill the Center void. Penny, Sprewell, Owens would have been a nice group of young players. Trade Johnson, Mullin...
The Magic actually matched the lakers offer plus more (also it was Florida so no state income tax), but it was already too late. Shaq sign with the laker the day prior. You can find out more about this moment thanks to Shaq documentary "This Magic Moment " a 30 for 30 by ESPN.
You made a couple of mistakes: Todd Fuller was the Warriors pick traded to Magic in the 1996 Draft but that pick went back to GSW via WAS. So he was NOT selected by Orlando. The pick in 1998 was NOT Keon Clark, it was Vince Carter. Again, this pick went back to GSW via WAS. But here's a thought: Ok, Orlando traded down in the 1993 Draft to get Penny. Now, after the 1993-94 season, the Orlando Magic decide to upgrade the PF position and chose to sign Horace Grant. But to free up some Cap space they have to move somebody and so they traded Scott Skiles to the (back then) Bullets along with two future 1st round Draft picks (GSW '96 and GSW '98). Just a couple of weeks later, CWebb demands a trade from GSW and they trade him to the Bullets for Gugliotta, their own 2000 Draft pick AND the two GSW picks they just got from Orlando. Now if the Magic stayed pat in the 1994 Offseason and didn't make the trade with Washington, they would have been able to make an offer for Webber by themselves. They could have put together the by far best package including up to 6 future 1st round Draft picks (3 GSW picks and 3 of their own). A young trio of Shaq, Penny AND Webber would be a dynasty in the making.
It's been too long since I've heard that trumpet in the beginning! Was hoping Andy would use some of the quarantine time to dive into NBA history and create videos at a higher rate. But it seems that content creators are either using this time to produce more content or take some time to reflect on other aspects in life and slow down with the videos. Completely respect if Andy is choosing the latter.
Shaq would have been jealous of CWebb too. He would have either gotten CWebb traded or he still would have left to the Lakers. He did this on every team he was on except CLE and Bos.
What you said was quite accurate about what if the NBA draft team had decided to draft Chris Webber on Orlando, not Penny which was a stupid decision of their choice.
They played scrimmage during the shooting of the movie Blue Chips. at first, Shaq thoughts that Penny was an actor, he compliments Penny's game. Shaq wants to play with Penny, Shaq said to the Magic that they need to get Penny or else Shaq leave.
Todd Fuller was selected by golden state in 96. After giving Orlando it's 96,98,2000 first round picks for Webber...the magic gave the bullets G.S. pick because they owed the bullets a first rounder from a previous draft. Washington used that 96 pick plus a 98 and 2000 first rounder and Tom googliota (prolly spelled that wrong) to trade to G.S. for Chris Webber. So the warriors actually got back the 96 first rounder they sent to Orlando in the hardaway Webber deal and selected Todd Fuller. Crazy shit
Webber was riddled with injuries from his sophomore season until 1997. So I guess the Penny trade would be better. In addition, the trade also netted the Magic 3 additional first round picks.
Not to mention he was a malcontent until he reluctantly joined the Kings. He wore out his welcome in Washington and the marijuana arrest was the Final straw.
Penny and Shaq were one of the most exciting tandems in NBA history. Too bad for Penny, together with Grant Hill should've been the future superstars or Goats after MJ retires.
Prime C Webb could average tripe double on any team, he is one of few players who were gifted with high athleticism and excellent passing and basketball iq
Andy you really make great content idk if you remember but you responded to me on Instagram when I asked for tips on starting an NBA RUclips and your tips really helped me get my channel started thank you for that and for uploading great content💪🏿
Great video, but Todd Fuller never played for the Magic. There's a fun story about that 1996 and 1998 pick. The Magic traded those picks a year later along with Scott Skiles to the Bullets for another 1st round pick in 1998 and a 2nd round pick. My guess is they added Skiles as a salary dump to pay Penny. The Bullets would then take those two picks along with another first rounder and Tom Gugliotta and trade it to the Warriors for wait for it...Chris Webber. The Warriors would later that same season trade Gugliotta for Donyell Marshall, so the Warriors ultimately traded Penny and their 2000 pick for Marshall. Hurts even more that they took Fuller over Kobe and swapped Vince for Jamison, even though he was a solid player.
You're right that they traded Skiles as a salary dump, but it wasn't to pay Penny, as he had only just finished his rookie season. They needed the cap space so they could sign Horace Grant as a free agent. In This Magic Moment, John Gabriel, a Magic executive from back in those days, said it was on of the first times ever that an NBA team used cap space as an asset.
@@geirfuglinn2213 Thanks for that. I finally found that missing nugget of information. It's a crazy what if. Do the Bullets get Webber if the Magic don't make that Skiles trade? Obviously, they miss out on Grant without the cap space. Could they have eased tension between Shaq and Penny? What if they draft Kobe with the GS pick in '96 or Vince in '98? If they have Kobe, do they pass on Vince and get someone like Dirk? Only a dream.
man i always wondered about lebron actually going to Chicago with prime D-Rose, would D-Rose still have gotten injured? Now that would be something else to watch, they would have ran the league for years. Another interesting one would have been if the bulls actually traded pipen for mcgrady. Not sure if that was true but would have been fun to watch. Two amazing scorers in their prime, but i wonder if that would work with jordan. Pipen was such an overall player that it worked perfectly with Mike, not sure if Tracy would have brought what pipen had to the table
No way Tracy could work as well as Pippen. And what do you mean by two scorers at their prime? Tracy got his first all-star year in 2001 and peaked scoring-wise a few seasons later. And about D-Rose, not so sure. In order to prevent injuries, he would have had to stop playing so recklessly with his body, and considering he would have LeBron, he really could slow down a little. But I doubt D-Rose would take it easy...
calamorta yah I kind of figured with pipen being a more overall player then Tracy. And yah you never know, maybe D-Rose would have rested a little bit more with lbj on the team and maybe d-wade would have signed there like he did anyways so that team would have been even scarier but there just what if ahaha
This was actually talked about by Chris Miles in NBA TV's segment in 2018 called "What If?" so yeah it would've been interesting what could've happened had Shaq and C-Webb became teammates.
I don’t believe that O’Neal and Webber would have worked together, they would have been fun sure, they would dominate but each would encourage the others immaturity likely leading to earlier breakdowns.
And it was management that broke up that team. They didn't recognize that Brian Hill was a trash head coach until the players told him he was a trash head coach. They didn't resign Shaq, they didn't take Penny's knee injury seriously. They had two once in a generation a talent in their squad (Penny and Shaq), and everything crumble because of their idiot GM.
The scenario should be "What if the Blue Chips movie never happened". If it didn't, Shaq and Webber would have played together. Also, another scenario: What if the Magic won one more game in 1992-93? They are in the playoffs, and maybe the Pacers get that miracle lottery ball and get the #1 pick. They had a good team in the 90's and 00's, but adding either Webber or Penny takes them up a notch.
Just a few comments, Orlando did amazing job in surrounding Shaq and Penny, so I think they would have gotten a good point guard, if they pick Webber (instead of H. Grant let's say Mark Jackson/Strickland...). The thing is CWeb was a head case in the early years, so I would count on clashes between the two big. On the absolute positive side CWeb had a side which totally covers Shaq's weaknesses.
Can you do a list of best shot blocking guards? And not just shooting guards at like 6'-6/7" or maybe lesser known guys like Ron Harper, Dennis Johnson etc.
WTF. Todd Fuller wasn’t with the magic one point...They traded the pick back to the warriors along with Scott skiles for the 42nd pick randy Livingston. Then, they traded him for Jeff turner.
Cwebb was one of my favourite player. The first time I look up the history I was thinking what a formidable duo cwebb and Shaq will be. Shaq could have been more than four time NBA champion if not for his ego and lack of conditioning. Such a wasted talent
That trade was a very good deal for the magic. I mean 3 future 1st round picks, look at the recent draft trade swaps for example Luka for Trae and Tatum for Fultz. They only include 1 future 1st round pick but in this case they included 3 which tells how much high regard they hold for Chris Webber.
Golden State had the better coach though, Brian Hill was not a good head coach. In the end it didn't work out because C-Webb couldn't deal with Nelson. Orlando front office made a lot of bad decisions that broke that team apart. Looking back I wish Don Nelson was coaching Penny.
Orlando traded that 1996 pick (and the `98 pick) to the Wizards (who ironically traded it to Golden State for Webber). So they didn't draft Fuller. That picture of Fuller is from 5 years later. If Shaq's ego got in the way with Penny, it would've gotten in the way with C-Webb. Plus Webber's ego was quite fragile, especially early in his career. He worked in Sacramento because he was the man. If Webber stayed in Orlando, we might have gotten that Rockets/Bulls final in 1995.
Shaq told magic to pick penny bc he knew they be a good duo more than Webber. I believe it was worth it bc they had a sure thing to win a chip. It’s only Magic’s fault to pick the wrong players to draft bc if they picked Kobe it would’ve been the best trade in the history of nba
That era of power forward was fun to watch. Each skilled in different aspect of the game. Glad I grew up with it. Nowadays game is kind of meh... As regards the Magic, I would have still kept Penny but tried harder on next drafts. Unbelievable that they passed on those players ! Never knew it...
Great video Andy. It would be amazing to watch TD/ Robinson agaisnt Shaq/Webber. Maybe the Magic could win at least one championship, and two as the highest. It's true they could dominate the east, but i don't think the Magic front office could build a three peat caliber team as Jerry West did with the Lakers, in some way, the Spurs front would've done a better team.
Hey @andy hoops Andy.. We cannot and we can never assume that if both of them never got traded they will be injured.. Who knows if C.Web and Penny stays in Magic and Warriors respectively they wont get injured. Different situation, different circumstances.
ANY Team that turned down a #3 Pick n 3 Future 1st Rounders for a #1 pick n Webber is crazy. Albeit Webber was as close to a Guarantee ANY Draft can offer, the #3 in 1993 potential with Penny, Mashburn or JR Rider alongside Shaq would've been worth adding NOW n still be building towards the future
Idk man, one big problem was that the Orlando Magic made a poll asking if Shaq was worth what he was asking for and, I don’t remember what the percentage was, but a lot of people said no, not to mention Shaq asked for a player option in the 3 year and the magic offered the 4th meanwhile the Lakers offered him the max with the 3rd year, I think Shaq would’ve left regardless
Without the benefit of hindsight, I feel like the Magic made the best decision for them at the time. It makes sense for them to trade a big man for a prolific point guard along with three future first round picks. It seems like an easy decision to make on paper when you consider how dominant of a big man Shaq was when Webber was a power forward. IF I was in 1993, I would have relished at the opportunity to pair Shaq with a dynamic perimeter guard that can space the floor and shoot the ball, rather than allowing Weber and Shaq to clog the paint and play in a tight space. Those three draft picks COULD have been used to draft impact players that would outweigh the talent discrepancy between Weber and Anfernee. Clearly, the only reasons we are discussing this are: 1. Injuries 2. The Magic making STUPID draft selections Side note: Imagine how many championships Shaq would have won with Penny and/or Kobe if he put his ego in the back seat, and just focused on training and eating well
Management made a lot of stupid decisions that tore that team apart. I mean why did they keep Brian Hill? It was pretty evident that Hill can't coach worth a damn when they got swept by the Rockets, a team on paper at least had the inferior roster. I know experience had a lot do with the Rockets winning, but the Magic got swept, they weren't even competitive when they lost. Orlando clearly had a coaching problem and the front office couldn't see that. John Gabriel was fucking dumb as hell, this is the same guy who no longer wanted Penny after the 99 season was over, and I think it was his dumb decision to low-ball Shaq.
If Shaq stays in 96 and Penny stays healthy the Magic would have stayed a contender through the early 2000s imo. Yes, I’d rather have Webber, but hard to predict injuries. Webber and Penny were both superstars at their peak
Another great super team that never was related to this video is the mid to late 90s Warriors. Cwebb, Chris Mullin, Sprewell and Tim Hardaway. The year Cwebb was there Hardaway was hurt and missed the entire year. If they had kept that team together and traded Billy Owens for Rony Seikaly who knows what the limit would have been.
My take is that the we probably saw the best case-scenario for Orlando, at least for a few years, the way that things did actually go. I just can't second guess that, considering how good that team was and how incredible a player Penny was. I think that we saw the super team, albeit briefly. Maybe blame MJ for coming back and keeping the Magic from being the best in the East. The thing that would've been good about Webber, who I was a big fan of, was that he didn't want to play center, that being one of his gripes in Golden State. Maybe he would've thrived with Shaq, for that reason. But I still like Penny more for Orlando.
But the front office of Orlando was incredibly stupid. They kept Brian Hill for way too long even though he was incompetent. I think it would have been better had GS kept Penny and Orlando kept Webber. Penny would have thrived under Don Nelson, and if Penny got injured, GS wouldn't have rushed Penny's recovery process like what happened in Orlando. Shaq assumes C-Webb and himself wouldn't work, but C-Webb said it himself that he would have averaged a triple-double with Shaq. Shaq and C-Webb would have been a dominant front court for years, much like Robinson and Duncan. This is why the GM should never listen to players when it comes to the draft or even when it comes to paying players. You saw how Cleveland got burned by the money they paid to JR Smith and Triston Thompson.
Shaq-Webber could've beaten the Rockets in 94 and possibly 95... dont know how they'd fare against the Spurs later but MJ and the Bulls would've been tough
If Shaq is not in LA then probably Phil won't be in LA too that will make a big difference in Kobe's career as no one will guide him to play within the system and force shots more similar to his rookie year. But, if he has Larry Brown he'd probably had a better chance winning a championship. Shaq, Kobe, and Penny in Orlando would probably be the best super team after the Chicago era.
Shaq would've been gone before Webber became an all-star. Shaq was already threatening the Magic's FO that he'd leave if he didn't get him Penny. If the Magic had stayed with C Webb, Shaq would've been mightly pissed, the team would've been worse (since Webber would've been missing games), and his agent would've had an even easier time to convince him to go to Los Angeles.
Webber was a beast and way ahead of his time with being an undersized 4 making up for it in quickness...but his peak was not similar to Timmy or Dirk's, not even close
I’d like to see that Penny, Kobe, Shaq trio, if that would even work chemistry wise
Consider the overlap with Penny and Kobe... No
@@tubeathrun I think it would have worked because Penny was unselfish and by the 2000 season his knees were so banged up the only thing he could do was be a play-maker. Penny was pretty much a role player by the 2000s. Oh you mean when Penny was 1st-team all-nba and fully healthy? No.
Penny, Kobe,& Shaq ORLANDO MAGIC #BEASTMODE #DYNASTYMODE🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀🏆🏀
Mark Boston it would’ve worked because penny was an amazing passer and would’ve averaged so many assists it would go down somewhere in history
Love this what if video
Imagine drafting Todd Fuller over Kobe peja Nash and jermaine
Jazz were one pick away from Giannis
@@mattmmixes Giannis was a project though so I could see why the didn't draft him
@@mattmmixes nobody would say that Giannis will even be decent back in the 2015, just like you can't say right now that bol bol will win the mvp( but he may)/
Ughhhh...as a Warriors fan, this hurts to remember those days of being the NBA's laughingstock. I'm confused by this video though...the Warriors took Todd Fuller with the 11th pick, not the Magic. It even has the Warriors logo in the image at the 2:36 mark. Played for the Warriors, Heat, Hornets and Jazz in his career. Did I miss something with regards to Andy's commentary here??
@@FreewayBrent Well he was in a magic jersey at one point, maybe they just traded him at some point
last time I was this early, I could still go outside.
Last time I was this early the NBA was not suspended
Shaq didn’t want another young big man stealing his limelight
Datz a fact
I think Shaq want the magic to draft penny.
Shaq never wanted to play with Webber
Exactly Shaq had chemistry issues with Kobe, and having C-Webb will limit Shaqs touches downlow, and Shaq wouldn't like it, Shaq will bolt from the Magic Just like he did with Penny.
@@peterramos5128 true he pointed this out before.
I’m from Orlando and this is how I remember, they couldn’t afford Webber because they paid shaq so much. Penny was booed in the beginning because he got the wrath of the fans wanting Webber and he never forgot that. Shaq has no loyalty, or ability to hit a free throw and an ego bigger than him. Penny was a good dude, he made huge donations to a non profit organization that my grandmother founded to find missing and endangered children, and that money alone kept the doors open for a while.
Damn the 03 clip of C. Webb crush me to see again...... I remember when it happened that broke my heart for real to see my big guy go down like that for the Kings
Hey Andy can you do a video about the 2020 HOF class of KG, Tim Duncan and Kobe (RIP)
Good fuckin idea kid
Best hall of fame class ever
I'd probably have to disagree, the Magic would probably have a lack of a point guard though. Shaq's ego would definitely still come into play.
Scott Skiles and Darrel Armstrong would be fine with these two stud big men.
If they win fast it could work. Also Chris played well on Fab 5 he doesn’t need all the shine
And That's Exactly What Kobe Hated About Him His Goddamn Ego
How good was Bruce Bowen a amazing defender with the Spurs in his prime in the 2000s.
Kawaii Unicorn You need to word your questions better. But I do like the video idea.
@@alienunleashed Alright I will
I don't know about good but i know he was dirty
@@JM1992 Defensively, Bowen was great. He didn't have much offensive skills other than spotting up for threes.
@Kawaii Unicorn
Better just yet stop spamming Andy Hoops with your stupid player suggestions.
You do this stuff on every damn video. Stop this idiocy.
The Magic trying to underpay Shaq is still one of the biggest blunders in NBA history.
True but it was only a matter of time before one of them would've had to go. Prime Shaq's ego wouldn't have allowed any other ending.
Magic front office was horrible
Shaq was way too sensitive though. They offered him more than LA eventually.
@@kristianolliviere9045 Yeah John Gabriel
was an idiot. He deserves a lot of the blame for that team breaking up. Orlando had so much going for them.
@bojo perez Orlando was pretty much pretty rich at that time. Shaq and Penny made Orlando extremely popular, they were just as popular as Jordan and the Bulls. Orlando low-balled Shaq, they were only willing to pay him $13.5 million a year in a course of 7 years ($94.5 million). LA offered Shaq a 7 year deal worth $117 million. Actually Orlando matched LAs offer, but by then Shaq made up his mind. Shaq felt disrespected by Orlando too much and went to LA.
What would be interesting is the flip side.
The warriors keep Penny and trade someone else with the two picks to fill the Center void.
Penny, Sprewell, Owens would have been a nice group of young players.
Trade Johnson, Mullin...
How good was AK-47?
Please andy
Man I wish CP3 would've gone to the Lakers.
Blame the NBA. They knew Kobe with a true point guard, Pau, Odom and Bynum was a wrap for a few more years
ANDY I LOVE YOU MAN! KEEP DROPPING THEM BANGERS!
🌏🌏
What if T-Mc got into Orlando while Shaq is still there..
the NBA star sentenced to death row
What if Tim Duncan went to Orlando and Hill stayed healthy. Orlando have too many what ifs lol
what if he had stayed when Dwight Howard broke out ? Offensive and defensive juggernauts on the same team
I’m so addicted to your videos, this quarantine is actually dangerous for me rn lol
The magic could’ve had 2 super teams 🤦🏾♂️
Slick Storm If only Tim Duncan’s family was allowed on the team plane
My god C-WEBB and Shaq in Orlando my goodness what a super team that would’ve been , just an absolute monster
@kamionkami1 got swept next year though
@@jpowell6418 oof
I struggle to find a true successful and lasting PF-C duo. Maybe Robinson-Duncan, but the admiral was old and probably more humble.
Lol you disrespected miller when he was a ROTY and sixth man of the year
Gang time he didn’t disrespect him it’s true the magic could have made better picks
J3 Isthename but he helped Mac when grant hill was out remember he saved Mac Hill and Rivers job for a bit
The Magic actually matched the lakers offer plus more (also it was Florida so no state income tax), but it was already too late. Shaq sign with the laker the day prior. You can find out more about this moment thanks to Shaq documentary "This Magic Moment
" a 30 for 30 by ESPN.
I love how your trumpets play in the background reminds me of when I was playing in the band back in grade school
I’m glad you’re getting into opinion pieces. You’re a pretty decent historian, and I love alternate history videos.
Once again, another well-researched video, spoken with clarity and intelligence. Good job, AndyHoops.
Shaq and Webber vs Robinson and Duncan...imagine
Man...that would have been fun to watch
You made a couple of mistakes: Todd Fuller was the Warriors pick traded to Magic in the 1996 Draft but that pick went back to GSW via WAS. So he was NOT selected by Orlando. The pick in 1998 was NOT Keon Clark, it was Vince Carter. Again, this pick went back to GSW via WAS.
But here's a thought:
Ok, Orlando traded down in the 1993 Draft to get Penny. Now, after the 1993-94 season, the Orlando Magic decide to upgrade the PF position and chose to sign Horace Grant. But to free up some Cap space they have to move somebody and so they traded Scott Skiles to the (back then) Bullets along with two future 1st round Draft picks (GSW '96 and GSW '98). Just a couple of weeks later, CWebb demands a trade from GSW and they trade him to the Bullets for Gugliotta, their own 2000 Draft pick AND the two GSW picks they just got from Orlando.
Now if the Magic stayed pat in the 1994 Offseason and didn't make the trade with Washington, they would have been able to make an offer for Webber by themselves. They could have put together the by far best package including up to 6 future 1st round Draft picks (3 GSW picks and 3 of their own). A young trio of Shaq, Penny AND Webber would be a dynasty in the making.
It's been too long since I've heard that trumpet in the beginning! Was hoping Andy would use some of the quarantine time to dive into NBA history and create videos at a higher rate. But it seems that content creators are either using this time to produce more content or take some time to reflect on other aspects in life and slow down with the videos. Completely respect if Andy is choosing the latter.
Shaq would have been jealous of CWebb too. He would have either gotten CWebb traded or he still would have left to the Lakers. He did this on every team he was on except CLE and Bos.
This. He'd have ate away at Shaq's popularity
Great content AS USUAL bro. One of the few channels I actually clicked the bell on 💯
What you said was quite accurate about what if the NBA draft team had decided to draft Chris Webber on Orlando, not Penny which was a stupid decision of their choice.
They played scrimmage during the shooting of the movie Blue Chips.
at first, Shaq thoughts that Penny was an actor, he compliments Penny's game.
Shaq wants to play with Penny, Shaq said to the Magic that they need to get Penny or else Shaq leave.
I Can See Why Shaquille O'Neal Was Confused
Shaq so underrated the Kobe’s wades and penny are the side kick
Shaq demanded to play with Penny. And it was the right move in my opinion. Penny's injuries and the Magic low balling Shaq is what killed it.
Good video Andy
Todd Fuller was selected by golden state in 96. After giving Orlando it's 96,98,2000 first round picks for Webber...the magic gave the bullets G.S. pick because they owed the bullets a first rounder from a previous draft. Washington used that 96 pick plus a 98 and 2000 first rounder and Tom googliota (prolly spelled that wrong) to trade to G.S. for Chris Webber. So the warriors actually got back the 96 first rounder they sent to Orlando in the hardaway Webber deal and selected Todd Fuller. Crazy shit
Webber was riddled with injuries from his sophomore season until 1997. So I guess the Penny trade would be better. In addition, the trade also netted the Magic 3 additional first round picks.
Not to mention he was a malcontent until he reluctantly joined the Kings. He wore out his welcome in Washington and the marijuana arrest was the Final straw.
Penny and Shaq were one of the most exciting tandems in NBA history.
Too bad for Penny, together with Grant Hill should've been the future superstars or Goats after MJ retires.
C-Webb has stated he would of averaged a triple double had he and Shaq played together
Prime C Webb could average tripe double on any team, he is one of few players who were gifted with high athleticism and excellent passing and basketball iq
The Magic/Warrior trade was not bad for Magic at the time the trade was made just that the Magic did not make good use of the draft picks.
Andy you really make great content idk if you remember but you responded to me on Instagram when I asked for tips on starting an NBA RUclips and your tips really helped me get my channel started thank you for that and for uploading great content💪🏿
Great video, but Todd Fuller never played for the Magic. There's a fun story about that 1996 and 1998 pick. The Magic traded those picks a year later along with Scott Skiles to the Bullets for another 1st round pick in 1998 and a 2nd round pick. My guess is they added Skiles as a salary dump to pay Penny. The Bullets would then take those two picks along with another first rounder and Tom Gugliotta and trade it to the Warriors for wait for it...Chris Webber. The Warriors would later that same season trade Gugliotta for Donyell Marshall, so the Warriors ultimately traded Penny and their 2000 pick for Marshall. Hurts even more that they took Fuller over Kobe and swapped Vince for Jamison, even though he was a solid player.
You're right that they traded Skiles as a salary dump, but it wasn't to pay Penny, as he had only just finished his rookie season. They needed the cap space so they could sign Horace Grant as a free agent. In This Magic Moment, John Gabriel, a Magic executive from back in those days, said it was on of the first times ever that an NBA team used cap space as an asset.
@@geirfuglinn2213 Thanks for that. I finally found that missing nugget of information. It's a crazy what if. Do the Bullets get Webber if the Magic don't make that Skiles trade? Obviously, they miss out on Grant without the cap space. Could they have eased tension between Shaq and Penny? What if they draft Kobe with the GS pick in '96 or Vince in '98? If they have Kobe, do they pass on Vince and get someone like Dirk? Only a dream.
man i always wondered about lebron actually going to Chicago with prime D-Rose, would D-Rose still have gotten injured? Now that would be something else to watch, they would have ran the league for years. Another interesting one would have been if the bulls actually traded pipen for mcgrady. Not sure if that was true but would have been fun to watch. Two amazing scorers in their prime, but i wonder if that would work with jordan. Pipen was such an overall player that it worked perfectly with Mike, not sure if Tracy would have brought what pipen had to the table
No way Tracy could work as well as Pippen. And what do you mean by two scorers at their prime? Tracy got his first all-star year in 2001 and peaked scoring-wise a few seasons later.
And about D-Rose, not so sure. In order to prevent injuries, he would have had to stop playing so recklessly with his body, and considering he would have LeBron, he really could slow down a little. But I doubt D-Rose would take it easy...
calamorta yah I kind of figured with pipen being a more overall player then Tracy. And yah you never know, maybe D-Rose would have rested a little bit more with lbj on the team and maybe d-wade would have signed there like he did anyways so that team would have been even scarier but there just what if ahaha
This was actually talked about by Chris Miles in NBA TV's segment in 2018 called "What If?" so yeah it would've been interesting what could've happened had Shaq and C-Webb became teammates.
Do Kawhii with Indy 😎
I thought the Magic chose Penny over Webber because Shaq had a movie shoot with Penny, and convinced the Magic to take him in the 93 Draft afterwards
I don’t believe that O’Neal and Webber would have worked together, they would have been fun sure, they would dominate but each would encourage the others immaturity likely leading to earlier breakdowns.
One trade i always wish never happened was the Shawn Marion and Shaq trade, that was a huge mistake for both teams
Yep
The Orlando Magic have one of the most "What If" stories in history. We should have had 1 or 2 championships till this day.
And it was management that broke up that team. They didn't recognize that Brian Hill was a trash head coach until the players told him he was a trash head coach. They didn't resign Shaq, they didn't take Penny's knee injury seriously. They had two once in a generation a talent in their squad (Penny and Shaq), and everything crumble because of their idiot GM.
This superteam imo will be just like Penny-Shaq era because of Shaq's ego and the injuries of Webber.
4:23 Don Nelson’s image on the left looks like the Troll Face.
The scenario should be "What if the Blue Chips movie never happened". If it didn't, Shaq and Webber would have played together.
Also, another scenario: What if the Magic won one more game in 1992-93? They are in the playoffs, and maybe the Pacers get that miracle lottery ball and get the #1 pick. They had a good team in the 90's and 00's, but adding either Webber or Penny takes them up a notch.
Shaq and C Webb would be one of the most deadliest front court’s ever.
If they both can hit freethrows.... consistently.
Shaq wanted Penny, I imagine things would go south much sooner if they took Webber
Just a few comments, Orlando did amazing job in surrounding Shaq and Penny, so I think they would have gotten a good point guard, if they pick Webber (instead of H. Grant let's say Mark Jackson/Strickland...). The thing is CWeb was a head case in the early years, so I would count on clashes between the two big. On the absolute positive side CWeb had a side which totally covers Shaq's weaknesses.
Can you do a list of best shot blocking guards? And not just shooting guards at like 6'-6/7" or maybe lesser known guys like Ron Harper, Dennis Johnson etc.
WTF. Todd Fuller wasn’t with the magic one point...They traded the pick back to the warriors along with Scott skiles for the 42nd pick randy Livingston. Then, they traded him for Jeff turner.
Ultimately Tim Duncan is probably most effected, he could have 7 or 8 championships without Shaq and Kobe in LA.
Cwebb was one of my favourite player. The first time I look up the history I was thinking what a formidable duo cwebb and Shaq will be. Shaq could have been more than four time NBA champion if not for his ego and lack of conditioning. Such a wasted talent
That trade was a very good deal for the magic. I mean 3 future 1st round picks, look at the recent draft trade swaps for example Luka for Trae and Tatum for Fultz. They only include 1 future 1st round pick but in this case they included 3 which tells how much high regard they hold for Chris Webber.
Golden State had the better coach though, Brian Hill was not a good head coach. In the end it didn't work out because C-Webb couldn't deal with Nelson. Orlando front office made a lot of bad decisions that broke that team apart. Looking back I wish Don Nelson was coaching Penny.
If Shaq doesn’t sign with the Lakers, Vlade doesn’t get traded. Kobe gets drafted by the Hornets. Crazy butterfly effect.
My first time being early, love your content man!
Orlando traded that 1996 pick (and the `98 pick) to the Wizards (who ironically traded it to Golden State for Webber). So they didn't draft Fuller. That picture of Fuller is from 5 years later.
If Shaq's ego got in the way with Penny, it would've gotten in the way with C-Webb. Plus Webber's ego was quite fragile, especially early in his career. He worked in Sacramento because he was the man.
If Webber stayed in Orlando, we might have gotten that Rockets/Bulls final in 1995.
Penny became one my favorite players ever, but I remember not liking this trade one bit when it happened.
Shaq told magic to pick penny bc he knew they be a good duo more than Webber. I believe it was worth it bc they had a sure thing to win a chip. It’s only Magic’s fault to pick the wrong players to draft bc if they picked Kobe it would’ve been the best trade in the history of nba
This was dope. Idk how it would have turned out but i like your thinking
That era of power forward was fun to watch. Each skilled in different aspect of the game.
Glad I grew up with it. Nowadays game is kind of meh...
As regards the Magic, I would have still kept Penny but tried harder on next drafts.
Unbelievable that they passed on those players ! Never knew it...
Great video Andy. It would be amazing to watch TD/ Robinson agaisnt Shaq/Webber. Maybe the Magic could win at least one championship, and two as the highest. It's true they could dominate the east, but i don't think the Magic front office could build a three peat caliber team as Jerry West did with the Lakers, in some way, the Spurs front would've done a better team.
Hey @andy hoops Andy.. We cannot and we can never assume that if both of them never got traded they will be injured.. Who knows if C.Web and Penny stays in Magic and Warriors respectively they wont get injured. Different situation, different circumstances.
"When you demanded this trade and then you still left the team"
- Shaq
Just further proof that the GM should never listen to the players when it comes to the draft.
ANY Team that turned down a #3 Pick n 3 Future 1st Rounders for a #1 pick n Webber is crazy. Albeit Webber was as close to a Guarantee ANY Draft can offer, the #3 in 1993 potential with Penny, Mashburn or JR Rider alongside Shaq would've been worth adding NOW n still be building towards the future
Shaq asked da Magic 2 get Penny after they were 2gether n da movie Blue Chips. Shaq himself says this n da 30 4 30 on ESPN
Trade Happend Cause Shaq wanted...he was mad that they Not Selected Penny 1st,thats why the trade Happend.
The two questions I have about this new timeline is do they beat the Pistons and does Shaq or CWebb join Dwayne Wade in Miami
Plz make How good was Kevin Martin..!
Shaq also told the Magic that he wanted them to take Penny
Shaq was the reason why the Magic traded for Penny and if they didn’t Shaq was gonna leave the team
Dang, and what IF T-Mac joined CWebb and Shaq? That would have been crazy..
Idk man, one big problem was that the Orlando Magic made a poll asking if Shaq was worth what he was asking for and, I don’t remember what the percentage was, but a lot of people said no, not to mention Shaq asked for a player option in the 3 year and the magic offered the 4th meanwhile the Lakers offered him the max with the 3rd year, I think Shaq would’ve left regardless
Imagine if all those were truth 🤯🤯🤯
Γειά σου φίλε μου, είμαι καινούργιος στο RUclips και θα ήθελα την υποστήριξη σου κάνωντας μου μια εγγραφή, ευχαριστω!
Shaq wanted Penny since he played with him in blue chips
Without the benefit of hindsight, I feel like the Magic made the best decision for them at the time. It makes sense for them to trade a big man for a prolific point guard along with three future first round picks. It seems like an easy decision to make on paper when you consider how dominant of a big man Shaq was when Webber was a power forward. IF I was in 1993, I would have relished at the opportunity to pair Shaq with a dynamic perimeter guard that can space the floor and shoot the ball, rather than allowing Weber and Shaq to clog the paint and play in a tight space. Those three draft picks COULD have been used to draft impact players that would outweigh the talent discrepancy between Weber and Anfernee. Clearly, the only reasons we are discussing this are: 1. Injuries 2. The Magic making STUPID draft selections
Side note: Imagine how many championships Shaq would have won with Penny and/or Kobe if he put his ego in the back seat, and just focused on training and eating well
Management made a lot of stupid decisions that tore that team apart. I mean why did they keep Brian Hill? It was pretty evident that Hill can't coach worth a damn when they got swept by the Rockets, a team on paper at least had the inferior roster. I know experience had a lot do with the Rockets winning, but the Magic got swept, they weren't even competitive when they lost. Orlando clearly had a coaching problem and the front office couldn't see that. John Gabriel was fucking dumb as hell, this is the same guy who no longer wanted Penny after the 99 season was over, and I think it was his dumb decision to low-ball Shaq.
Can we get a story about nba expansion draft 2004?
If Shaq stays in 96 and Penny stays healthy the Magic would have stayed a contender through the early 2000s imo. Yes, I’d rather have Webber, but hard to predict injuries. Webber and Penny were both superstars at their peak
For more What if's, go to @Mike Korzemba
They would not be nearly as good as you claim.. Two dominant big men in. The already crowded paint
What happened to your content bro so much mistakes of Todd Fuller and showing Shawn in a nets jersey to make them bad when he was a philly early on
Another great super team that never was related to this video is the mid to late 90s Warriors. Cwebb, Chris Mullin, Sprewell and Tim Hardaway. The year Cwebb was there Hardaway was hurt and missed the entire year. If they had kept that team together and traded Billy Owens for Rony Seikaly who knows what the limit would have been.
My take is that the we probably saw the best case-scenario for Orlando, at least for a few years, the way that things did actually go. I just can't second guess that, considering how good that team was and how incredible a player Penny was. I think that we saw the super team, albeit briefly. Maybe blame MJ for coming back and keeping the Magic from being the best in the East.
The thing that would've been good about Webber, who I was a big fan of, was that he didn't want to play center, that being one of his gripes in Golden State. Maybe he would've thrived with Shaq, for that reason. But I still like Penny more for Orlando.
But the front office of Orlando was incredibly stupid. They kept Brian Hill for way too long even though he was incompetent. I think it would have been better had GS kept Penny and Orlando kept Webber. Penny would have thrived under Don Nelson, and if Penny got injured, GS wouldn't have rushed Penny's recovery process like what happened in Orlando. Shaq assumes C-Webb and himself wouldn't work, but C-Webb said it himself that he would have averaged a triple-double with Shaq. Shaq and C-Webb would have been a dominant front court for years, much like Robinson and Duncan. This is why the GM should never listen to players when it comes to the draft or even when it comes to paying players. You saw how Cleveland got burned by the money they paid to JR Smith and Triston Thompson.
Andy do NBA What If's Video.
Shaq-Webber could've beaten the Rockets in 94 and possibly 95... dont know how they'd fare against the Spurs later but MJ and the Bulls would've been tough
Chris Webber should've been elected for the 2020 hall of fame.
Good vid🔥
shaq specifically requested penny over C. Webb
If Shaq is not in LA then probably Phil won't be in LA too that will make a big difference in Kobe's career as no one will guide him to play within the system and force shots more similar to his rookie year. But, if he has Larry Brown he'd probably had a better chance winning a championship. Shaq, Kobe, and Penny in Orlando would probably be the best super team after the Chicago era.
Shaq would've been gone before Webber became an all-star. Shaq was already threatening the Magic's FO that he'd leave if he didn't get him Penny. If the Magic had stayed with C Webb, Shaq would've been mightly pissed, the team would've been worse (since Webber would've been missing games), and his agent would've had an even easier time to convince him to go to Los Angeles.
Dont forget about T Mac
Shaq got jealous of Penny, he would've gotten jealous of Webber and more likely the same thing would have happened.
Webber was a beast and way ahead of his time with being an undersized 4 making up for it in quickness...but his peak was not similar to Timmy or Dirk's, not even close
It would had been awesome if they can keep C-Web and Penny. That just be an awesome big 3 Shaq, Penny, and C Web. I think it's fair.
No. Penny was a much better fit. I love the magic and those mid 90s magic teams were so fun.