When I was a kid, I had a romantic fascination for shooting black powder. Then I grew up, and realized how messy and time-consuming it is, and lost the desire. capandball is reawakening the 12-year-old in me.
Another excellent video, underhammers are the way to go in 25m competition shooting. I shot in the UK MLAGB National Pistol Championships at the week-end and almost all of the Free Pistol shooters were using them.
I have been shooting all of my life when I was old enough to carry a rifle to hunt deer it was a black powder 50 cal, Hawkins, (a family heirloom and the rifle you had to learn be used on the 1st hunt) that being said you can always appreciate the expertise of someone like yourself and how you explained how meticulous one has to be on following the reloading of a muzzleloading pistol or even a rifle on accurate follow up shots . This video is one that I will have my grandchildren watch on the "whys and hows" to reload a black powder target pistol. Thank you.
Have you shot any under hammer rifles? This is a brand new discovery for me, just when I'm thinking of getting into black powder. The other reviews I saw mention the great triggers, and that the direct ignition of the charge is actually a superior method. Also the trigger is supposed to be so simple that there isn't much that can go wrong. I'd love a real review of this whole system from someone with a lot of knowledge of black powder rifles.
you bought the caps that fit, percussion caps came in more sizes than are available today (due to the large variation in cone size from different makers). The industry today has largely settled on a few standardized sizes to improve economies of scale (even if it doesn't fit quite right, now it's just easier to buy a new firing cone and fit it to the gun/caps).
When you get your bullet set and are happy with it put a piece of tape on the rod at the end of the barrel as a depth marker, that will tell you if your next bullet is seated the same.
What is that ram rod you are using made of? I have never liked using anything to ram a ball down unless it is made of a soft material that has no chance of damaging the barrel crown and rifling. That is one cool pistol. It seems that in Hungary you have a wider variety of these reproduction firearms then what I can find in the USA. I have not seen the Pedersoli Cook underhammer for sale here.
I thought something happend to you this is your first vidio in 2 weeks I’m glad to see you are still making videos. But with that pistol to the purrcusion caps fall off becaus of the under hammer
In response to orckiller91 cook vs Le page. While the Cook can be fixed and have really superb accuracy, I decided as a matter of personal preference that I don't like the balance. For me the Cook is not as "barrel heavy" as I prefer. As a result, I have decided to sell it and buy the Le Page percussion. It is very similar to the Le Page flint lock, which has the weight and balance I prefer. I would also note that the Cook would be an excellent choice for people with small hands (women, youth) and those who like a comparatively light-weight pistol.
I had a Bondini replica of the Ashabel Cook underhammer pistol, which used a similar trigger guard hammer spring mechanism. It was a very cool pistol, which I enjoyed, but then swapped for a flintlock pistol that was more period correct for my reenacting.
Seems quite disapointing for such a match grade pistol. A kuchenreuter from the same brand can do better. Pedersoli is still using the same rifling pattern for all its bores, what a pity !
Őszintén mondom, hogy nem beszólásból, -hiszen tudom, hogy elég sokat tettél a magyar elöltöltős lövészetért- de a nyitott csappantyúsdoboz, ráadásul egy alsókakasosnál..-hát az elég ciki. Persze mindenki hibázik, senki nem tökéletes, de ha már videót csinálsz róla, akkor legalább tűnjön úgy, hogy betartod a szabályokat. :)
Hahahaha they wouldnt let me in that shop im too rough round the edges i might scratch one of the cabinets 😂 plus i dont have a moostaka like our host or lether shoes 🤣👍 But i do have a nice set of italian cheese knives does that count? 😄.
I cringe when i see him beat the ball into the bore like that. If he had a proper loading stand for the pistol he could use a concave faced ball starter and a plastic or leather mallet to start the ball into the bore without beating up the face of the ball like that. The stand would also help to make ramrod pressure consistent when seating the ball onto the powder. Having a loading stand allows for having tools and components laid out on the bench on both sides of the stand so both hands can be used to load the gun. Its a lot faster and more convenient to load with a stand having both hands free to work on loading. Many ranges here in the US require a loading stand for black powder revolvers and pistols because it is safer having the muzzle always pointed upwards while loading. The caps are installed last with the muzzle pointed down range. I always enjoy this channel. He's a classy guy and shoots some very nice guns. John Davis jax fl
Another great video. Since loading consistently is important for accuracy, would tapping the loading rod with a mallet produce a consistent bullet seating? Would wiping the bore with a slightly damp patch followed by a dry patch help with accuracy and loading?
Consistancy is the mother of accuracy. I will have to do a test on the idea of tapping the ramrod with a mallet to see if it affects accuraccy one way or the other. I keep a patch on the jag of my ramrod while loading because I think it helps to keep the bore consistant. John Davis jax fl
Two months ago I posted a review of the PD Cook under hammer pistol. See below. Now, I have had some experience with it and can report on it. There are four types of problems with the gun. One set dealing with factory assembly, testing and quality control. One dealing with design, and one potentially dealing with MLAIC rules. MLAIC COMPLIANT, MAYBE? In the Capandball video, near the end of this video Balazs says the gun will be good for MLAIC Kuchenreuter competition. Moreover, I purchased this gun thinking its design is compliant with MLAIC rules. At the time I am writing this review (June 10, 2020), there is a debate on that point within the MLAIC committee reviewing the gun. The problem is with part number 10, the Stock Fixing Screw. It is a hexhead screw! If the gun were truly a copy of the original design, it could not have such a screw. We shall see how the MLAIC committee rules on this. It would seem that the fix would be fairly simple, just replace the hex head with a slotted head screw made of god quality steel rather than soft machining metal. FAULTY FACTORY INSTALLATION OF REAR SIGHT The rear sight was not properly installed necessitating repair for the shooter to be able to adjust the rear sight for elevation. Part number 7, the adjusting nut, was not properly crimped to part number 6, the adjusting screw. Moreover #7 has an excessively large diameter and was jammed into the well/hole in the frame such that the when the adjusting screw was turned out (to raise the sight) the adjusting nut sticks in the frame. When the screw is turned out, there was nothing to prevent the sight from free floating up and down. The problem was fixed by filing the adjusting nut outer diameter so that it would not bind in the hole/well in the frame. The nut should be adjusted so that the adjusting screw will turn freely, but not wobble in the sight. To secure the adjusting position on the adjusting screw, I thoroughly cleaned the screw and put a dab of paint on the threads under the nut to prevent it loosening. An alternative would be to slightly crimp the screw making sure it will not jam in the frame hole/well in which it must be able to rotate. NOTE, the adjusting screw is made of very soft metal, so take care not to damage it. RUST The gun was test fired, but NOT cleaned. When the gun arrived it had powder fouling in the barrel as well as rust! The distributor tried to tell me that material in the barrel was cosmoline. Not so. The rusting was minor, so I cleaned and scrubbed the barrel, and used 0004 steel wool thinly wrapped around a brush. To that I applied some J-B non-embedding bore cleaning compound and polished the bore until the rust was removed. Inspection with a bore scope confirmed that the rust was gone. A quality control inspection should have prevented this problem. REMOVING AND REPLACING THE BARREL The barrel is held in the frame by a conical pin that goes through holes in the frame and a hole in the extension of the back of the breech plug. The holes are to be aligned. The conical pin, which has a tapering diameter, with its narrower diameter end, is then inserted onto the large diameter hole in the frame, through the hole in the breech plug extension and into the small diameter hole on the opposite side of the frame. Pedersoli provides a “Pin Remover Tool” which is essentially a punch for driving the conical pin in or out. When the gun arrived the conical pin had been driven with such excessive force that it was extremely difficult to remove. The underlying problem the person assembling the gun at the factory had was that the barrel would wobble of the pin was not excessively jammed into the holes. The problem can be fixed by placing a brass shim of about .002 inches thickness between the breech plug and the face of the frame. If the breech plug extension was of sufficiently close tolerance to the diameter of the hole in the frame, and the positioning of the hole in the breech plug extension were correctly placed, the wobbling would have been avoided. Note: you may require different thicknesses of brass shim to fix this. ASSESSMENT All in all, the gun was a disappointment. Poor or non-existent inspection, poor tolerances of parts and questionable compliance with MLAIC compliance make the gun something of a headache. But the gun can be fixed. Of the 6 different Pedersoli pistols I have purchased, 4 had problems which include things as rust in the barrel, a hammer warped in the heat treating process, cracked stock, parts incorrectly fitted, etc. My understanding is that Pedersoli guns are much more expensive in Europe than in the U.S. I would be willing to pay more for a gun that is properly made and inspected. One that would not need a lot of time and effort to bring the gun up to an acceptable quality standard. Next: Shooting groups. I follow with a report on that in the near future. Best regards, JC
Accuracy test following above adjustments. SUPERB!!! I took the Cook to the range and I am absolutely delighted with the results. Being in the United States, the range is measured in yards, not meters. So, I used the 25 and 50 meter target reduced for 25 and 50 yards (B-19). As .354 balls are not available here, I used .350 balls and an 0.01 lubricated patch. The powder charge I used was 11.5 grains of Swiss 4ffff (American designation of grain size) or .745 grams. I shot 3 groups of 5 shots, cleaning the barrel between groups. The gun was hand held on a sand bag rest on a shooting bench. The average size of the groups was (measured center to center) 17 millimeters!!!!!!! This was decidedly superb as the diameter of the circle inside of the 10 ring is just 20 millimeters (on the B-19 target). I think I am going to like this gun VERY much!!
@@orckiller91 After fixing the problems with it, I shot it and decided I will sell it in favor of the Le Page percussion. The Cook is just not barrel-heavy enough for my preference. I have a Flint Le Page, which is almost identical to the percussion Le Page, and like it's weight and balance compared to the Cook. Provided they don't send you a factory second that needs repair, you should be satisfied with either gun.
So you can rest the barrel on the support because it has more stable harmonics? Very nice demonstration on the importance of loading the charge and ball with consistent pressure. Didn't know it had that much of an impact on accuracy. What was the distance?
anomaly P If anything, the sandbag is a problem for the barrel harmonics. I suspect the gun will shoot better from a rest that did not touch the barrel. But this was a prototype.
capandball is very relaxing to watch. No shouting, no obnoxious machismo, and no solicitation.
Absolutely agree. Some of the highest quality firearms content on youtube.
@@samuelng7852 Why are you constantly staring at other men's gentles?
Nice low bore axis too for those quick follow up shots
after of course...the quick two minute reloading....
Most hilarious comment I've read in ages. Kudos.
One of these days I wanna see a pedersoli Lorenzoni black powder pistol along with a Giradoni air rifle.
I really want one of these companies to make a nice Allen style Pepperbox revolver, not that awful Navy Colt with a extended cylinder as a barrel.
Yes,what's going on with that thing? Just a giant cylinder with no barrel.
When I was a kid, I had a romantic fascination for shooting black powder. Then I grew up, and realized how messy and time-consuming it is, and lost the desire. capandball is reawakening the 12-year-old in me.
I only shoot BP about every 10th time I go out and when I do I wonder why I don't do it more
I think bp smells far better and is lots of fun
Some very nice shooting on the final group
I had one made with a surplus .50 cal machine gun barrel. It was incredibly accurate.
What did you do with it?
@@hardcase1659 they shot it
second group is KING
Great presentation... Outstanding shooting skills... Relaxing video, as usual. Shoot lots and stay safe.
Neat little pistol.
Another excellent video, underhammers are the way to go in 25m competition shooting. I shot in the UK MLAGB National Pistol Championships at the week-end and almost all of the Free Pistol shooters were using them.
I have been shooting all of my life when I was old enough to carry a rifle to hunt deer it was a black powder 50 cal, Hawkins, (a family heirloom and the rifle you had to learn be used on the 1st hunt) that being said you can always appreciate the expertise of someone like yourself and how you explained how meticulous one has to be on following the reloading of a muzzleloading pistol or even a rifle on accurate follow up shots . This video is one that I will have my grandchildren watch on the "whys and hows" to reload a black powder target pistol. Thank you.
WOW! That's ugly! MUST..GET..ONE.
"It's awful. Gimmie one."
Have you shot any under hammer rifles? This is a brand new discovery for me, just when I'm thinking of getting into black powder. The other reviews I saw mention the great triggers, and that the direct ignition of the charge is actually a superior method. Also the trigger is supposed to be so simple that there isn't much that can go wrong.
I'd love a real review of this whole system from someone with a lot of knowledge of black powder rifles.
Finally got mine after almost five months of waiting. It’s as beautiful in person as on the web. Waiting for a few accessories so I can give it a go.
Very Good Groups and you are a good pistol shooter..
I wonder if the looser tolerances back in the day resulted in caps falling off?
you bought the caps that fit, percussion caps came in more sizes than are available today (due to the large variation in cone size from different makers). The industry today has largely settled on a few standardized sizes to improve economies of scale (even if it doesn't fit quite right, now it's just easier to buy a new firing cone and fit it to the gun/caps).
I never liked underhammer RIFLES, they always seemed awkward and ugly.
But this underhammer pistol design is lovely.
Cameraman sounds a bit tuckered out.
When you get your bullet set and are happy with it put a piece of tape on the rod at the end of the barrel as a depth marker, that will tell you if your next bullet is seated the same.
The difference can be very very small. But that is a standard practice to mark your rod. Every little bit helps.
What is that ram rod you are using made of? I have never liked using
anything to ram a ball down unless it is made of a soft material that
has no chance of damaging the barrel crown and rifling.
That is one cool pistol. It seems that in Hungary you have
a wider variety of these reproduction firearms then what
I can find in the USA. I have not seen the Pedersoli Cook underhammer
for sale here.
Actually the video was taken at Pedersoli factory.
I've never shot an under hammer. I think it would take some getting used to. Are the sights adjustable? You have a good group, just in the wrong spot.
Nice video ,,,,Please fire the pedersoli saloon cal 36🙂👍🏼
Pedersoli needs to make a matchlock musket
I would love it in 50 cal for some hunting.
Wish he would actually aim for the bulls eye, otherwise always love his videos :-P
I thought something happend to you this is your first vidio in 2 weeks I’m glad to see you are still making videos. But with that pistol to the purrcusion caps fall off becaus of the under hammer
Luke Derkovitz Actually, they don’t. I’ve never had a problem with my Underhammer pistols.
The caps dont fall off my underhammer rifle.
He looks like a professor 😁
If I remember correctly, he IS a professor of history.
Is it possible to install in this pistol the piston Pedersoli indoor shooting ?
The underhammer looks a bit unerganomic
i own a similar one, they fit beautifully in the hand. A joy to shoot.
Consistency-seating force even in shot shell crimps and metallic cartridge neck tension..Thank you for mentioning that!!
Apologies to all for hijacking your comments, but for some reason, I just love this guys work.
In response to orckiller91 cook vs Le page. While the Cook can be fixed and have really superb accuracy, I decided as a matter of personal preference that I don't like the balance. For me the Cook is not as "barrel heavy" as I prefer. As a result, I have decided to sell it and buy the Le Page percussion. It is very similar to the Le Page flint lock, which has the weight and balance I prefer.
I would also note that the Cook would be an excellent choice for people with small hands (women, youth) and those who like a comparatively light-weight pistol.
I had a Bondini replica of the Ashabel Cook underhammer pistol, which used a similar trigger guard hammer spring mechanism. It was a very cool pistol, which I enjoyed, but then swapped for a flintlock pistol that was more period correct for my reenacting.
Underhammers are so cool and simple. I took my first deer with a .58 caliber Hopkins & Allen repro.
Seems quite disapointing for such a match grade pistol. A kuchenreuter from the same brand can do better. Pedersoli is still using the same rifling pattern for all its bores, what a pity !
I love your videos, i wish i could have your job! This gun looks very interesting, i never saw something like that.
3:10 the nose whistling. 😂😂😂😂
you are fantastic! a question: Pedersoli cook or carleton, which do you prefer? see you later
Őszintén mondom, hogy nem beszólásból, -hiszen tudom, hogy elég sokat tettél a magyar elöltöltős lövészetért- de a nyitott csappantyúsdoboz, ráadásul egy alsókakasosnál..-hát az elég ciki. Persze mindenki hibázik, senki nem tökéletes, de ha már videót csinálsz róla, akkor legalább tűnjön úgy, hogy betartod a szabályokat. :)
What is your favorite patch and ball long gun from Pedersoli?
Looks great but I'm not a .36cal fan. I am betting that when these do come to market they will go for an easy grand.
I have the one! It is nice and very well balanced :-) Now came to shooting range :-)
what an elegant pistol.
thank you for the upload :-)
Was the barrel cleaned between each shot? I wonder if the fouling as it built up caused the bullet to lose velocity or gain Velocity?
Interesting video. Was this pistol only used for target match shooting? I've seen many of your videos and you are a very good pistol shooter!
Hahahaha they wouldnt let me in that shop im too rough round the edges i might scratch one of the cabinets 😂 plus i dont have a moostaka like our host or lether shoes 🤣👍
But i do have a nice set of italian cheese knives does that count? 😄.
I cringe when i see him beat the ball into the bore like that.
If he had a proper loading stand for the pistol he could use a concave faced ball starter and a plastic or leather mallet to start the ball into the bore without beating up the face of the ball like that.
The stand would also help to make ramrod pressure consistent when seating the ball onto the powder.
Having a loading stand allows for having tools and components laid out on the bench on both sides of the stand so both hands can be used to load the gun. Its a lot faster and more convenient to load with a stand having both hands free to work on loading.
Many ranges here in the US require a loading stand for black powder revolvers and pistols because it is safer having the muzzle always pointed upwards while loading.
The caps are installed last with the muzzle pointed down range.
I always enjoy this channel. He's a classy guy and shoots some very nice guns.
John Davis jax fl
What do you do as a job to be able to afford all this?
Great video sir
Nice video. Great information too. Thanks
Another great video. Since loading consistently is important for accuracy, would tapping the loading rod with a mallet produce a consistent bullet seating? Would wiping the bore with a slightly damp patch followed by a dry patch help with accuracy and loading?
Consistancy is the mother of accuracy. I will have to do a test on the idea of tapping the ramrod with a mallet to see if it affects accuraccy one way or the other.
I keep a patch on the jag of my ramrod while loading because I think it helps to keep the bore consistant.
John Davis jax fl
Beutiful firearm
sei italianoooo YEEEE
thank you for video!
Two months ago I posted a review of the PD Cook under hammer pistol. See below. Now, I have had some experience with it and can report on it. There are four types of problems with the gun. One set dealing with factory assembly, testing and quality control. One dealing with design, and one potentially dealing with MLAIC rules.
MLAIC COMPLIANT, MAYBE?
In the Capandball video, near the end of this video Balazs says the gun will be good for MLAIC Kuchenreuter competition. Moreover, I purchased this gun thinking its design is compliant with MLAIC rules. At the time I am writing this review (June 10, 2020), there is a debate on that point within the MLAIC committee reviewing the gun. The problem is with part number 10, the Stock Fixing Screw. It is a hexhead screw! If the gun were truly a copy of the original design, it could not have such a screw. We shall see how the MLAIC committee rules on this. It would seem that the fix would be fairly simple, just replace the hex head with a slotted head screw made of god quality steel rather than soft machining metal.
FAULTY FACTORY INSTALLATION OF REAR SIGHT
The rear sight was not properly installed necessitating repair for the shooter to be able to adjust the rear sight for elevation. Part number 7, the adjusting nut, was not properly crimped to part number 6, the adjusting screw. Moreover #7 has an excessively large diameter and was jammed into the well/hole in the frame such that the when the adjusting screw was turned out (to raise the sight) the adjusting nut sticks in the frame. When the screw is turned out, there was nothing to prevent the sight from free floating up and down. The problem was fixed by filing the adjusting nut outer diameter so that it would not bind in the hole/well in the frame. The nut should be adjusted so that the adjusting screw will turn freely, but not wobble in the sight. To secure the adjusting position on the adjusting screw, I thoroughly cleaned the screw and put a dab of paint on the threads under the nut to prevent it loosening. An alternative would be to slightly crimp the screw making sure it will not jam in the frame hole/well in which it must be able to rotate. NOTE, the adjusting screw is made of very soft metal, so take care not to damage it.
RUST
The gun was test fired, but NOT cleaned. When the gun arrived it had powder fouling in the barrel as well as rust! The distributor tried to tell me that material in the barrel was cosmoline. Not so. The rusting was minor, so I cleaned and scrubbed the barrel, and used 0004 steel wool thinly wrapped around a brush. To that I applied some J-B non-embedding bore cleaning compound and polished the bore until the rust was removed. Inspection with a bore scope confirmed that the rust was gone. A quality control inspection should have prevented this problem.
REMOVING AND REPLACING THE BARREL
The barrel is held in the frame by a conical pin that goes through holes in the frame and a hole in the extension of the back of the breech plug. The holes are to be aligned. The conical pin, which has a tapering diameter, with its narrower diameter end, is then inserted onto the large diameter hole in the frame, through the hole in the breech plug extension and into the small diameter hole on the opposite side of the frame. Pedersoli provides a “Pin Remover Tool” which is essentially a punch for driving the conical pin in or out. When the gun arrived the conical pin had been driven with such excessive force that it was extremely difficult to remove.
The underlying problem the person assembling the gun at the factory had was that the barrel would wobble of the pin was not excessively jammed into the holes. The problem can be fixed by placing a brass shim of about .002 inches thickness between the breech plug and the face of the frame. If the breech plug extension was of sufficiently close tolerance to the diameter of the hole in the frame, and the positioning of the hole in the breech plug extension were correctly placed, the wobbling would have been avoided. Note: you may require different thicknesses of brass shim to fix this.
ASSESSMENT
All in all, the gun was a disappointment. Poor or non-existent inspection, poor tolerances of parts and questionable compliance with MLAIC compliance make the gun something of a headache. But the gun can be fixed.
Of the 6 different Pedersoli pistols I have purchased, 4 had problems which include things as rust in the barrel, a hammer warped in the heat treating process, cracked stock, parts incorrectly fitted, etc. My understanding is that Pedersoli guns are much more expensive in Europe than in the U.S. I would be willing to pay more for a gun that is properly made and inspected. One that would not need a lot of time and effort to bring the gun up to an acceptable quality standard.
Next: Shooting groups. I follow with a report on that in the near future.
Best regards, JC
Accuracy test following above adjustments. SUPERB!!!
I took the Cook to the range and I am absolutely delighted with the results.
Being in the United States, the range is measured in yards, not meters. So, I used the 25 and 50 meter target reduced for 25 and 50 yards (B-19).
As .354 balls are not available here, I used .350 balls and an 0.01 lubricated patch. The powder charge I used was 11.5 grains of Swiss 4ffff (American designation of grain size) or .745 grams.
I shot 3 groups of 5 shots, cleaning the barrel between groups. The gun was hand held on a sand bag rest on a shooting bench. The average size of the groups was (measured center to center) 17 millimeters!!!!!!! This was decidedly superb as the diameter of the circle inside of the 10 ring is just 20 millimeters (on the B-19 target). I think I am going to like this gun VERY much!!
@@johnciccone5795 how are you liking it? I’m between this and the LePage
@@orckiller91 After fixing the problems with it, I shot it and decided I will sell it in favor of the Le Page percussion. The Cook is just not barrel-heavy enough for my preference. I have a Flint Le Page, which is almost identical to the percussion Le Page, and like it's weight and balance compared to the Cook. Provided they don't send you a factory second that needs repair, you should be satisfied with either gun.
@@johnciccone thank you for the reply, I actually picked up a LePage percussion is 36 yesterday. Just waiting for it to arrive
So you can rest the barrel on the support because it has more stable harmonics?
Very nice demonstration on the importance of loading the charge and ball with consistent pressure. Didn't know it had that much of an impact on accuracy. What was the distance?
anomaly P If anything, the sandbag is a problem for the barrel harmonics. I suspect the gun will shoot better from a rest that did not touch the barrel. But this was a prototype.
Buen arma y buen video
interesting, never heard of underhammers before
Oh, in competition shooting they are quite popular. But until now, I have never seen one.
Excellent!👍
I really like that firearm very well.....You handle it very well also....A big Thanks also...!
Inaccurate pistol
No, just not zeroed.