Numrich Arms Hopkins & Allen Under hammer rifle
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Scott Rice sent me a Numerich Arms, Hopkins & Allen Under-hammer rifle in .45 caliber to shoot in this video.
This is a legitimate 19th century design, though it was never hugely popular.
But I have to admit that it was fun to shoot.
Mike Beliveau links:
mikebeliveau.com/
teespring.com/stores/duelists-den
/ duelist
Christmas 1967 I found a little H&A buggy rifle under the tree with “For: Johnny” on it. I was the happiest 12 year old in Indiana that day. Over the years I took several Hoosier white tails with it using 65 grains of GOEX 3-F and the same patched 440 round ball. I still have that little gun though the butt stock is cracked and the barrel is shot out. Thanks for a great video. Perhaps it’s time to rebuild that little Buggy Rifle.
I have a old Hopkins and Allen single shot 12 ga. My first gun at the age of twelve, I'm 51 now and still have it.
That brings back memories! In the 60s I wanted an H&A underhammer pistol but settled on a Kentucky pistol from Dixie. I think I made the right choice but the underhammer still sticks in my mind!
Nothing like waking up to a notification for a black powder shooting video. Merica!🇺🇸👍😁
@Wild Tex
Yup, I like that too, just not usually as soon as I roll out of bed. Good hunting.👍🦌
Competition target shooters like the underhammer as they are innately good shooters, with the hammer out of eyeshot, there is no distraction for the eyes to remain on target. Great chootin!
That would be a good deer gun for the woods. Short barrel, fast handling and easy to carry. Also looks like it hits what you point it at. Interesting action to say the least. thanks for sharing Mike!
The action had three moving parts all house inside the breach extension. Great hunting gun.
I have taken 25 or so deer with me h&a underhammer. 45 at up to 90yds with only 1 misfire due to a bad cap
"Any idiot can make something complicated, it takes a genius to make things simple" I love the underhammer design and that it is a traditional american pattern. too weird to catch on but a great idea. I think I will shoot mine this weekend.
I had one and sold it because the cap sprayed your face and wrists when you shot it even with the cup shroud. It was a good shooter.
I always pop a couple caps to clear the nipple of any oil or obstruction. If I have a misfire; I put a small amount of powder under the nipple. Most times this will clear the gun and fire.
The angles of the stock seem like it could potentially be sort of fragile over time. Not a terrible concept but I can see why it didn't take off.
Thanks I always wondered about those guns. I've seen some at gunshows and they tend to be fairly inexpensive.
The cool thing about old guns is some were really weird.
Like black plastic stocks and thirty round mags?
Nothing weird about under hammer rifles. If one does enough with BP muzzleloaders one finds that they are popular with bench rest target shooters.
I haven t seen one of those since the early 70's myself, always liked them, but DIDNT have one tho, just a side hammer kentuckyrifle in.45 cal was my 1st. Thx for the vid.
N.W. Ranger By weird, I think he means unique and interesting.
I have the traditional style Numrich H&A underhammer. Mine is a 20" barrel in .32 call. Great little shooter.
Mike, thank you! I’ve been a long time gun enthusiast (long for a millennial hehe), but recently I’ve gotten into the black powder revolvers and you’ve been a wealth of information. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge as it has helped me a lot with my recent black powder revolver acquisitions. Take care, and thanks again for the informative/quality videos!
The first muzzle loader H&A came out with was an under-frizzed flintlock version, but the powder kept falling out of the pan. 😂
Interesting rifle, but the extra metal behind the nipple is a waste. It could have been a strap.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Scott and Mike. Very interesting firearm. I assume it has a half cock notch for safety. My biggest concern with these rifles would have been the cap falling off as you cock it due to gravity. If you carried it around at half cock all day the constant shaking might have caused the cap to become dislodged and it could potentially fall off when you go to shoot it. For this reason, these firearms (rifle and pistol) seem like great target guns but not very good every day hunting guns.
Carried mine hunting for deer and squirrels. Bore checking on the cap but well fitted cap stayed put. Handy gun. Was a thrill picking a fox squirrel out of the top of a sycamore with it.
Very cool, brings me back. If you could find a Pacific Rifle Company underhanded that would be awesome to see you review. Ever seen the Beretta over under muzzleloader shotgun?
👍Enjoyed the video. Amazing how those old firearms still work.✌🇺🇸🇺🇸
I bought one of those exactly like that in .36 cal. Very accurate little rifle! I used automotive high temp silicone by permatex to glue on a Williams peep sight. For short range, it is the most accurate muzzleloader I own.
Doesnt matter whether the small disc was dead center or not, a hit is a hit.
Small bores and musket caps don't mix well. I'd switch it back to 11's myself. Musket cap nipples are bored out larger than no. 11's are. Small bore chamber pressures can be fairly high and that big musket cap sized hole will allow a lot of blow back. I'm speaking from experience. I have a .32 that i converted to musket caps. It would blow back so hard it would half cock the hammer. It also made my groups go to hell.
The pistol version looks awesome.
Even the rifle has a very clean look.
Imagine finding that at a yard sale!
I have one of those with a Williams aperture rear sight that I glued on using Permatex black silicone sealer. Laugh if you want but this stuff really holds! 😮 That little .36 is very accurate. The sight comes off easily if you want to remove it.
Truthfully though I'm a flintock kind of guy if these rifles were brought back I'd get at least one. I like the original tubular style receiver best.
On my pistol it takes a number 12 cap which I never heard of before, but I found some.
I used to look at the advertising for those back in the 60s always wanted one of the Buggy rifles but never even saw one in the UK.
These were popular Vermont/New York State target rifles, 1840-60
Thank you for sharing this rifle Mike it's pretty interesting it seems like a pretty good shooter you shoot it well anyway
I have one of these pistols, but have never shot it. A friend who doesn't shoot black power gave it to after he inherited it.
Thank You.
I hope it was fun for you and interesting to your viewers.
Thank you!
Nice 👍
My first muzzle loading rifle. Sure shooter, never a worry about misfires. Why would you ever put a musket nipple on it?
I have no idea why. When I that bought the rifle the standard musket nipple was on it.
A friend of mine thinks that possibly they changed it to a musket nipple to make it easier 2 cap in cold weather. Or they were thinking that a musket cap would be more secure and not fall off as easy.
But I do not know why that is the way the rifle was when I purchased it.
I have a pistol like this I want to know more information on it
My local gun shop has one of the actual Hopkin and Allens, the typical rifle with the round receiver on the shelf for a while now. They can't seem to get rid of it. I know a guy whose father inherited one of the original guns, it didn't get a lot of use it seems because it just wasn't very popular.
Thanks Mike for showing us this interesting rifle.
Did they have any problems with the percussion cap falling off?
Why was it called " The Buggy Gun " ?
They seem to stay on pretty well. I guess the buggy gun name comes from the rifles short size...maybe it fit under a buggy seat.
@@duelist1954 Ahhh small enough to fit under buggy seat makes sense.
I checked with Brownells and I was going to buy those 3 screwdriver bits for my Pietta 1858 New Army. The only one I saw listed online was the 180-3 bit. There were others close to but not matching the other 2 bits you mentioned.
Actually' the underhammer was very popular in the northeastern parts of the US. There were a great many pistols made in this design. Lots of buggy carbines and more than a few heavy target rifles used this simple action.
It probably came out a little late to be very popular elsewhere.
I have one of the "offhand" target rifles. It has the more common action with two piece stock . It has a 32 inch 45 caliber barrel. It has a globe front sight and a Marbles style adjustable rear sight. I have added a TC peep sight to the rear of the action. Soon to be replaced wifh a lyman #57 for more repeatable adjustments.
It shoots very well at 25 and 50 yards with 40 grains of 3f swiss
And a .440 ball in a pillow ticking patch lubed with olive oil.
I havent had the rifle long enough to do any 100 yard bench work. Too hot to shoot much here in Florida right now.
I did polish the bore with red 3m metal finishing pad like you showed how to do with your lyman Plains Rifle. It loads much easier now. Thankyou for the tip.
This style of rifle is idea for left handed shooters such as myself.
I also like it that flash and smoke from the cap is dirrected down and away from my face so i breathe a lot less lead dust when i shoot matches.
I got lucky when i bought mine and I'm glad to have it.
Thanks for all you do.
Jd
I had one of the latter models but I replaced the 45 cal barrel with a 40 cal Green Mountain and a stiffer hammer spring. Shot and won a lot of club matches with it. Lock time was really fast with the stiffer spring. Just don't get your hand near the breech end. You can get stung by the blast of the ignition. Had a mule ear too years back.
How about those 45-70 Octagon re=barreled Rolling Blocks Numrich was selling for $50? I was I had bought a dozen.
Would be nice if you and hickok45 made video together testing these old nice firearms. Two experts discussing and shooting 💪🏻
I can see this as a low production cost firearm. The Maynard Carbine is a much better design. Now if there was a design of revision of the Maynard for inline striker fire thus eliminating the hammer from the sight picture...
Once you got the ignition system functioning it went off quite a lot better than I was expecting.
Interesting thing there with the rifle hitting 5 o'clock on the center mass of the large target AND 5 o'clock on the smaller one too... that rifle has consistency!
I made one from a Pecatonica River kit. Heavy long barrel in .54. I like it but don't shoot it enough.
Yours would be a good deer gun.
DocLaw; how was it to build? I never got around to getting one from Blue Grouse before it closed down. Pecatonica is likely my only option now.
Really, fairly simple. The most time-consuming parts were figuring out that to clear the hammer on the forestock, I had to completely cut out the part behind the nipple. Also, some Dremel grinding to the forestock to fit the nipple shield and finally, to completely clear the ramrod holder. After that was fitting the stock to the receiver. Rather than the furnished front sight, I put a Lyman Globe on the front. The set screws on the action hold the barrel to the action good enough, but one of these days, I am going to counter-sink where the set screws touch the action for a worry-less fit.
I built an under hammer from a kit a few years ago in .58 cal. It's the standard model and it's a tack driver.
Excellent review !
Never saw these. I graduated HS in 1976 in Bucks County.
I love underhammer gun❤
There was one at local shop for quite a while. I picked it up several times but just couldn't get that interested in it.
Good video! But these danged mid-video aids are distracting!
Always wanted one of their flintlock long rifles when they came out. Never even got to hold one.
I have the typical one with a custom barrel.
I have one mine is more of a target model, it’s a very nice rifle.
Enjoyed the video, but youtube is getting carried away with ads
Love the actual shooting footage from behind you and up close !! Great video
I have a 50 cal H&A bought it at a gun show best 100 i ever spent.
Almost forgot to say that I appreciate the history about the rifle thank you.
My first muzzleloader in the 70's was an H&A Underhammer like the one you showed in the picture. It was the .58 cal deerstalker I got from Dixie. It was a great gun from a stand but heavier than heck with a massive barrel. Very accurate and extremely reliable. Shot several deer with it and every one of them fell when it was hit. I took one after sitting all day in the rain. That spark firing directly into the charge from underneath worked as advertised. Kinda sorry I sold it as it was the only rifle I owned that didn't have a rock in the lock and as I got older it seemed to get heavier and heavier. That buggy rifle looks like just the ticket for hunting in the rain.
It is a very light, handy gun.
I had one of their target pistols and heavy barrel rifle. The pistol had a very heavy trigger.
Bought them cheap and sold them pretty good.
I have two original under hammer pistols. Lots gunsmiths made them as they are an easy gun to make. Think they were popular in New England
I have a pistol like this do u know what it needs to shot
I remember those, too. Never liked the looks of them, but they were very accurate. I knew someone who had one, and he swore by it. Took a lot of deer with it. I never tried shooting it , but I remember little bitty groups at fifty yards! Must have shot pretty good!
For many years I've had the .36 pistol version exactly like the one that your friend has. Like his, mine shoots quite well. Thanks for the video, Mike.
I've seen a few of those rifles and pistols at gun shows. I kinda thought they would be troublesome in use because, say you're out hunting, it's likely that the cap would fall off the nipple, and your gun just goes click.
On mine the #11 cap was a snug fit and I never had a problem with it falling off. The action is so ultra simple with only three moving parts (Hammer, Trigger, and Mainspring/Triggerguard it was ultra reliable. They would never win a beauty contest but it was very accurate and there was simply nothing to break. I really liked everything about mine except the weight that .58 cal Dewerstalker had a very heavy barrel.
A Hit is Hit and any hit is worth a high five
Hey pal, hope you are doing well.
Is this the same Numrich that sells gun parts today? If so I order parts from them a couple times a year.
Very unique, I like it!
Loved the presentation
Nice one Duelist
These are a lot better aesthetically than any inline muzzleloader. Wish they took off a little better