Join the discussion! What is your assessment of Chinatown and your rating out of ten? Support us on Patreon or Ko-Fi: www.patreon.com/contrarians ko-fi.com/thecontrarians
They did tour this album--I saw them at the Ontario Theatre in 1980 and met Phil. He gave me a poetry book and signed my ticket which of course I still have. He is a legend and the best this world has ever seen on bass and vocals. A consummate artiste.
“Having A Good Time” splits opinion - I always wondered if Phil had intended to use this live, as a new ‘introducing the band’ number but I don’t think they ever did and it comes across as filler to me.
HEY GUYS just found you and loved the idea of having guys who like (and know) rock music talking about a rock album. So much fun. I just found the "one guy talking at at time" not very dynamic for who is listening to the show. If I were you I would do this: go topic by topic and let everyone have a go at each topic. I think going song by song can be great. And in between the songs -- let's say every couple of songs -- you can do topics like "production", "state of the band at the time", "drums sound", "guitar sound", "lyrics", "rock scene at the time" and whatever other topics are related to the particular album you guys are reviewing. Well I just subscribed to your channel and i hope you guys keep rocking and rolling
I remember hearing Snowy White was replacing Gary Moore and thought it was joke. So, I was somewhat sceptical when the album came out, but I was totally wrong. It's one of my favourite Lizzy albums. I love it's bluesy feel.
I have always enjoyed the latter part of the Thin Lizzy catalogue a bit more than 'the classics'. A bit contrarian?!? ;) Probably I would rank the album Chinatown in top 3 overall. To me there are no weak tracks and the standout tracks are the title track, Hey You and Genocide, which I started appreciating only later on...
I quite like Snowy White and his playing,but he wasn't quite the right guy on a vibe level. He was kinda like a rounded off square in a round hole. He's in there but...Certainly better in Lizzy than Robertson was in Motorhead as far as vibes go. Brian's playing is brilliant and Another Perfect Day is actually my fav Motorhead lp. But his attitude seemed to be difficult at best. Btw the one panelist is Irish so I'll give him a pass on the naff singing lol. Great episode on my favorite band. Cheers
I was listening to this again a few weeks ago and would give it an 8/10. I was a drummer like Martin so agree on Brian Downey on this album. His drumming on the song Chinatown is exceptional.
I am like David Botas and I found Lizzy later in life and oh boy how fantastic it was to find them and their music. One thing I could never ever understand is why on earth they completely ignored songs like Sweetheart and We Will Be Strong on their live shows, these have got to two of their finest tracks. And yeah Hey You sounds a bit flat and lifeless on the record but there is a version recorded in Cork (just search for hey you cork soundcheck 1980) that is just so good!
Great Discussion! Thin Lizzy is my #3 top bands, and I love this whole catalog. as a kid getting The Boys Are Back In Town on 45 in 1976 and then the album I was hooked! so I was in deep when Chinatown came out. The only disappointment I had with this album back then that is was without Gary Moore! but I love this album and I give it a 8/10. I love Snowy White and what he brought to the band and more so on Renegade. and i agree that Don't Play Around should have been an album track along with Dear Miss Lonely Hearts which I would have switched out Hey You and made a perfect 10 track album.
Always liked this album - it has some of Lizzy’s finest songs. Side 1 is much stronger than Side 2. Imho, if “Dear Miss Lonely Hearts” had been on Chinatown, instead of Solo in Soho, it would have boosted the album’s sales and stature.
As mentioned, this album came out in 1980 and was overshadowed by all the other monumental albums released that year. Lots of new bands on the scene also grabbing the limelight. Unfortunately good as it was, this album wasn't as strong as was needed to get Thin Lizzy back their prominent place in the spotlight. UFO were also in a similar predicament in the same year.
7.5 is a fair rating for an album I don't go back to listen to much but enjoy for the most part. "Having A Good Time" is my favorite track off the album.
Finally - some recognition for this great record, which I think is just about their best album. Great guitar, songs, and lyrics. Next, do Thunder and Lightning.
Really enjoyable show. At the time I was very disappointed with Chinatown. It seemed they were trying too hard to be “heavy metal” and they were a parody of themselves. Both the title track & Killer On The Loose seemed cliched & lacked the subtlety of previous singles. Didn’t think that Snowy fitted in at all. In 1980 I’d have given it a 5/10. However the albums grown on me over the years, and I now like it a lot more. It is Lizzy after all, & I’ll now give it a 7/10.
I don't consider it a weak album. Its got some weak tracks. Maybe the production is a little weak. I love Didn't I. Its my favorite on here and would definitely make my top ten Lizzy songs. The first two songs are awesome. I really wish they had put the Killer on the Loose b-side Don't Play Around on the album. I love that song as well. Even with Lizzy (arguably) a little off their game here, they still continue with a run of albums that few can match. Id give this one a solid 8.
Agree about Black Rose being the outlier album. There is some glances back to the very early days on that album…some of Phil’s romantic writing on that one, you could’ve put Parisienne Walkways on that one and it wouldn’t have felt out of place. Chinatown for me the issue is the writing and the production, all very inconsistent. Some great tracks here but they needed time to be worked on…all sounds rushed. I think Renegade is a far superior album…I am with Martin on this one being very high on my list…but don’t get me started on Thunder & Lightning…🤮
So much is made of the addictions during this period. Phil was also working on solo songs. I understand he was writing and deciding if a song was for the solo project or Lizzy? That was more an issue than drugs IMO. The songs do change as the drugs take over more and more. I happen to also love the early albums because of the energy and more folky approach.
@@delorangeade Agreed. I do love Renegade but have to be in the mood. Those first 3 are so majestic to me and you can hear the Bass and it's moving all over the place.
@@danielmcevoy976 Yes, I like Renegade more than Chinatown or Thunder and Lightning. Some good songs on there. But I love Lynott's writing on those early albums, and they are musically a lot better than they may be given credit for. Vagabonds of the Western World is probably my favourite Lizzy studio album, after Black Rose.
I think Renegade would fit better under the dark horse concept. Anyway,Chinatown is a great record in my opinion. So many good tracks such as title track,We will be strong,Killer on the loose,Genocide and Didn't I. Even better than Thunder and Lightning.
This is definitely not their worse album!!! For starters , play "Sugar Blues" and think of how years ahead they were of ZZ Top at the time. "Hey You" was their heaviest song to date. "Killer On The Loose" amazing Lick. The worse crime of this album, is that they never included "Dont Play Around" ,their greatest hidden gem, unreleased ,which can only be found on their deluxe edition, which means it never made it to the album. It is one of their best songs of all time in my opinion. The rest of the album is very hit or miss, but i can definitely recognize the musicianship. Genocide is a great example of a flawless instrumental but lyrics that felt rushed, which brings down the song's entirety. But you cant really fault them , they were bound by contract to release an album every year or such it seems. That is my main criticism of Thin Lizzy as a whole, feels like the lyrics are rushed sometimes. Too bad , because instrumentally, they were untouchable.
The song Genocide isn't about the Buffalo, it's a metaphor, but the laziness of the song is summed up in that point in away. Jim Fitzpatrick had given Phil a book about an Indian Massacre and that was the best Phil could come up with, I think Jim was even puzzled, but anyway... Given the label put a lot of push and work into the Chinatown album, what with the imagery and the excellent album art by Jim Fitzpatrick, it tells its own story in how the supporters reacted to the album. It's a huge drop off from Black Rose. With Gary leaving in the middle of (yet another messed up) US tour and Midge Ure coming in, you'd wonder of Phil was taking the band serious anymore. And given they hired session player in Snowy White, they certainly were not taking Lizzy serious any more. While Woolven was a decent engineer, Phil was no producer and the album tends to come across as a set of demos to me. Lyrically lazy, vocals nasal like and right on top of the mix, guitar harmonies half baked at best. The drums sound excellent and here is where Woolven comes to the fore. Chinatown while not completely terrible is just seriously lacking to the point of utter disappointment. You'd wonder if Didn't I was replaced with say Ode to a Black Man from Solo in Soho, would it lift the album a bit? And why on earth was a song as good as " Don't Play Around not included? It wipes the floor with Having a Good Time which is just utter filler. Phil and Woolven certainly put a lot more effort on the Solo in Soho album. Maybe juggling to many projects? Maybe Phil was toying with a solo career? He certainly took the eye of the ball where everything Lizzy was concerned. Mind you, it would get worse. The follow up Renegade wasn't even worthy of a UK certification, but that's a different story I'd give Chinatown 6/10
I have it on original vinyl pressing from 80 and on cd. The vinyl version seems to be more dynamic and 3D. Everything spoken about is relevant. Aside from the drugs starting to affect the output, you have the influences of Midge Ure and the new wave movement, the keyboards were starting to become promenient but mixed out, Phil's outside interests pulling his attention and material, the change in overall music and production during 1980 as we left the 70's and entered the 80's, the NWOBHM movement hit which Thin Lizzy was not; they were a rock band and the overall changes taking place. They solidified better on the first 6 songs on Renegade, but again Phil's solo projects and drugs detracted. Now if the classic Robbo/Gorham line up had recorded it... 6/10 rating.
Of the 4-piece years of Lizzy this one is my least favourite together with Nightlife and Black Rose. There our some great songs on it but also some less memorable ones and songs that are too long. It doesn't feel as diverse as other albums. Lizzy's catalog is fantastic but they never really made a masterpiece studio album. Their masterpiece is Live and dangrerous. They're just an awesome band that toured alot and make quick stops in the studio to record great song. There are many bands with better albums but i don't like 'm as much as Thin Lizzy.
A couple of things. First: I wonder of it makes a difference if you heard and bought the album when it was first released, so you listened to it in the context of all the Thin Lizzy albums you already owned? Second: I wonder if it makes a difference if you own it on the original vinyl, instead of some later version, maybe it just sounds different? No-one will ever convince me it's a great, or even a good, album. A great disappointment as a follow up to Black Rose. In terms of songwriting, this and Thunder and Lightning are the band's weakest. I would rather listen to Solo in Soho. The Jim Fitzpatrick cover is great, and I like the production, it sounds loud and punchy and direct. Side one of the album is pretty solid, I'll give it that, but side two is a complete miss, other than Genocide. Songs about the demise of Native Americans were somewhat in vogue at the time, Queen had already recorded White Man and Iron Maiden came later with Run to the Hills, so there was nothing too outlandish about Phil writing a song about the subject.
I agree with you on this. This was the first Lizzy album I bought in 1980, and I loved it at the time (it was one of the few albums I owned so I played it to death!), but once I bought Bad Repuation and Black Rose the following year I realised how poor this album actually is. I also agree that the first side is much stronger than the second. 🤘
@@jimekberg I assumed the lead off guest Davey. He gets a lot of heat on other shows for that too. But if he's interesting what is the problem? I realize though other people might not agree. But he is knowledgeable and passionate and I appreciate him.
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Join the discussion! What is your assessment of Chinatown and your rating out of ten?
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Genocide (The Killing of the Buffalo) is however one of my five favorite songs in their entire catalog.
They did tour this album--I saw them at the Ontario Theatre in 1980 and met Phil. He gave me a poetry book and signed my ticket which of course I still have. He is a legend and the best this world has ever seen on bass and vocals. A consummate artiste.
That sounds incredible!
I agree with Peter, the title track is a major standout when it comes to later Thin Lizzy.
I saw them live in 1978 with Gary Moore on guitar. They kicked ass that day. I would have loved for that line-up to have lasted longer.
“Having A Good Time” splits opinion - I always wondered if Phil had intended to use this live, as a new ‘introducing the band’ number but I don’t think they ever did and it comes across as filler to me.
Saw them on this tour at the Santa Monica Civic, third row up the middle, one of the best concerts I've ever seen and I've seen a few in my day.
HEY GUYS just found you and loved the idea of having guys who like (and know) rock music talking about a rock album. So much fun. I just found the "one guy talking at at time" not very dynamic for who is listening to the show. If I were you I would do this: go topic by topic and let everyone have a go at each topic. I think going song by song can be great. And in between the songs -- let's say every couple of songs -- you can do topics like "production", "state of the band at the time", "drums sound", "guitar sound", "lyrics", "rock scene at the time" and whatever other topics are related to the particular album you guys are reviewing. Well I just subscribed to your channel and i hope you guys keep rocking and rolling
I remember hearing Snowy White was replacing Gary Moore and thought it was joke. So, I was somewhat sceptical when the album came out, but I was totally wrong. It's one of my favourite Lizzy albums. I love it's bluesy feel.
I have always enjoyed the latter part of the Thin Lizzy catalogue a bit more than 'the classics'. A bit contrarian?!? ;) Probably I would rank the album Chinatown in top 3 overall. To me there are no weak tracks and the standout tracks are the title track, Hey You and Genocide, which I started appreciating only later on...
I quite like Snowy White and his playing,but he wasn't quite the right guy on a vibe level. He was kinda like a rounded off square in a round hole. He's in there but...Certainly better in Lizzy than Robertson was in Motorhead as far as vibes go. Brian's playing is brilliant and Another Perfect Day is actually my fav Motorhead lp. But his attitude seemed to be difficult at best. Btw the one panelist is Irish so I'll give him a pass on the naff singing lol. Great episode on my favorite band. Cheers
I was listening to this again a few weeks ago and would give it an 8/10. I was a drummer like Martin so agree on Brian Downey on this album. His drumming on the song Chinatown is exceptional.
I am like David Botas and I found Lizzy later in life and oh boy how fantastic it was to find them and their music. One thing I could never ever understand is why on earth they completely ignored songs like Sweetheart and We Will Be Strong on their live shows, these have got to two of their finest tracks. And yeah Hey You sounds a bit flat and lifeless on the record but there is a version recorded in Cork (just search for hey you cork soundcheck 1980) that is just so good!
Great Discussion! Thin Lizzy is my #3 top bands, and I love this whole catalog. as a kid getting The Boys Are Back In Town on 45 in 1976 and then the album I was hooked!
so I was in deep when Chinatown came out. The only disappointment I had with this album back then that is was without Gary Moore! but I love this album and I give it a 8/10.
I love Snowy White and what he brought to the band and more so on Renegade. and i agree that Don't Play Around should have been an album track along with Dear Miss Lonely Hearts
which I would have switched out Hey You and made a perfect 10 track album.
Kirk Windstein from Crowbar has this album name (font and all) literally tattooed on his back.
Always liked this album - it has some of Lizzy’s finest songs. Side 1 is much stronger than Side 2. Imho, if “Dear Miss Lonely Hearts” had been on Chinatown, instead of Solo in Soho, it would have boosted the album’s sales and stature.
As mentioned, this album came out in 1980 and was overshadowed by all the other monumental albums released that year. Lots of new bands on the scene also grabbing the limelight. Unfortunately good as it was, this album wasn't as strong as was needed to get Thin Lizzy back their prominent place in the spotlight. UFO were also in a similar predicament in the same year.
7.5 is a fair rating for an album I don't go back to listen to much but enjoy for the most part. "Having A Good Time" is my favorite track off the album.
Finally - some recognition for this great record, which I think is just about their best album. Great guitar, songs, and lyrics. Next, do Thunder and Lightning.
Good album! Solid production and love the guitar tones. "We Will Be Strong" and "Hey You" favorite songs. 8/10
Nice mention for Black Star Riders by The Music Nut. Kick ass band and lots of great records.
Thanks so much for watching and for your comment! Yeah, they really do kick ass!
The album, like all Lizzy albums, are great. But it is in my bottom three just because of the quality of the discography alone.
Gets a 9,5 from me. Had this one since it’s release.
Really enjoyable show. At the time I was very disappointed with Chinatown. It seemed they were trying too hard to be “heavy metal” and they were a parody of themselves. Both the title track & Killer On The Loose seemed cliched & lacked the subtlety of previous singles. Didn’t think that Snowy fitted in at all. In 1980 I’d have given it a 5/10. However the albums grown on me over the years, and I now like it a lot more. It is Lizzy after all, & I’ll now give it a 7/10.
I’m a contrarian I guess because I like this album a lot.
I don't consider it a weak album. Its got some weak tracks. Maybe the production is a little weak. I love Didn't I. Its my favorite on here and would definitely make my top ten Lizzy songs. The first two songs are awesome. I really wish they had put the Killer on the Loose b-side Don't Play Around on the album. I love that song as well. Even with Lizzy (arguably) a little off their game here, they still continue with a run of albums that few can match. Id give this one a solid 8.
Agree about Black Rose being the outlier album. There is some glances back to the very early days on that album…some of Phil’s romantic writing on that one, you could’ve put Parisienne Walkways on that one and it wouldn’t have felt out of place. Chinatown for me the issue is the writing and the production, all very inconsistent. Some great tracks here but they needed time to be worked on…all sounds rushed. I think Renegade is a far superior album…I am with Martin on this one being very high on my list…but don’t get me started on Thunder & Lightning…🤮
1. Killer on the Loose
2. Genocide
3. Hey You
4. Chinatown
5. Having a Good Time
6. Sweetheart
7. We will be Strong
9. Sugar blues
10. Didn´t i
Great Album 🐲
Hey You 👍
So much is made of the addictions during this period. Phil was also working on solo songs. I understand he was writing and deciding if a song was for the solo project or Lizzy? That was more an issue than drugs IMO. The songs do change as the drugs take over more and more. I happen to also love the early albums because of the energy and more folky approach.
I would rather listen to the first three albums than the last three.
@@delorangeade Agreed. I do love Renegade but have to be in the mood. Those first 3 are so majestic to me and you can hear the Bass and it's moving all over the place.
@@danielmcevoy976 Yes, I like Renegade more than Chinatown or Thunder and Lightning. Some good songs on there. But I love Lynott's writing on those early albums, and they are musically a lot better than they may be given credit for. Vagabonds of the Western World is probably my favourite Lizzy studio album, after Black Rose.
One of my favorite albums by Lizzy
I would probably give it a 7. Not great, not bad. It’s still Thin Lizzy but definitely in their bottom three albums.
11/10
I think Renegade would fit better under the dark horse concept. Anyway,Chinatown is a great record in my opinion. So many good tracks such as title track,We will be strong,Killer on the loose,Genocide and Didn't I. Even better than Thunder and Lightning.
we actually did an episode of the contrarians on renegade it was like our 3rd episode ever!
@@thecontrarians2438 I will watch it asap.
I’ve always loved Chinatown. There isn’t really anything wrong with the album.
First Lizzy album I bought
Killer on the Loose is Top 10
Great album
This is definitely not their worse album!!! For starters , play "Sugar Blues" and think of how years ahead they were of ZZ Top at the time. "Hey You" was their heaviest song to date. "Killer On The Loose" amazing Lick.
The worse crime of this album, is that they never included "Dont Play Around" ,their greatest hidden gem, unreleased ,which can only be found on their deluxe edition, which means it never made it to the album. It is one of their best songs of all time in my opinion.
The rest of the album is very hit or miss, but i can definitely recognize the musicianship. Genocide is a great example of a flawless instrumental but lyrics that felt rushed, which brings down the song's entirety.
But you cant really fault them , they were bound by contract to release an album every year or such it seems. That is my main criticism of Thin Lizzy as a whole, feels like the lyrics are rushed sometimes. Too bad , because instrumentally, they were untouchable.
Peter Jones nailed it!
That's my fave Thin Lizzy album. Can't nobody tell me otherwise!!!
fuck yeah mate!
Sugar Blues!
The song Genocide isn't about the Buffalo, it's a metaphor, but the laziness of the song is summed up in that point in away. Jim Fitzpatrick had given Phil a book about an Indian Massacre and that was the best Phil could come up with, I think Jim was even puzzled, but anyway...
Given the label put a lot of push and work into the Chinatown album, what with the imagery and the excellent album art by Jim Fitzpatrick, it tells its own story in how the supporters reacted to the album. It's a huge drop off from Black Rose. With Gary leaving in the middle of (yet another messed up) US tour and Midge Ure coming in, you'd wonder of Phil was taking the band serious anymore. And given they hired session player in Snowy White, they certainly were not taking Lizzy serious any more.
While Woolven was a decent engineer, Phil was no producer and the album tends to come across as a set of demos to me. Lyrically lazy, vocals nasal like and right on top of the mix, guitar harmonies half baked at best. The drums sound excellent and here is where Woolven comes to the fore. Chinatown while not completely terrible is just seriously lacking to the point of utter disappointment. You'd wonder if Didn't I was replaced with say Ode to a Black Man from Solo in Soho, would it lift the album a bit? And why on earth was a song as good as " Don't Play Around not included? It wipes the floor with Having a Good Time which is just utter filler. Phil and Woolven certainly put a lot more effort on the Solo in Soho album. Maybe juggling to many projects? Maybe Phil was toying with a solo career? He certainly took the eye of the ball where everything Lizzy was concerned. Mind you, it would get worse. The follow up Renegade wasn't even worthy of a UK certification, but that's a different story
I'd give Chinatown 6/10
hey guys i have an album suggestion for all of you and it is andy mccoy building on tradition
I have it on original vinyl pressing from 80 and on cd. The vinyl version seems to be more dynamic and 3D. Everything spoken about is relevant. Aside from the drugs starting to affect the output, you have the influences of Midge Ure and the new wave movement, the keyboards were starting to become promenient but mixed out, Phil's outside interests pulling his attention and material, the change in overall music and production during 1980 as we left the 70's and entered the 80's, the NWOBHM movement hit which Thin Lizzy was not; they were a rock band and the overall changes taking place. They solidified better on the first 6 songs on Renegade, but again Phil's solo projects and drugs detracted.
Now if the classic Robbo/Gorham line up had recorded it...
6/10 rating.
Of the 4-piece years of Lizzy this one is my least favourite together with Nightlife and Black Rose.
There our some great songs on it but also some less memorable ones and songs that are too long. It doesn't feel as diverse as other albums.
Lizzy's catalog is fantastic but they never really made a masterpiece studio album. Their masterpiece is Live and dangrerous.
They're just an awesome band that toured alot and make quick stops in the studio to record great song.
There are many bands with better albums but i don't like 'm as much as Thin Lizzy.
A couple of things. First: I wonder of it makes a difference if you heard and bought the album when it was first released, so you listened to it in the context of all the Thin Lizzy albums you already owned? Second: I wonder if it makes a difference if you own it on the original vinyl, instead of some later version, maybe it just sounds different? No-one will ever convince me it's a great, or even a good, album. A great disappointment as a follow up to Black Rose. In terms of songwriting, this and Thunder and Lightning are the band's weakest. I would rather listen to Solo in Soho. The Jim Fitzpatrick cover is great, and I like the production, it sounds loud and punchy and direct. Side one of the album is pretty solid, I'll give it that, but side two is a complete miss, other than Genocide. Songs about the demise of Native Americans were somewhat in vogue at the time, Queen had already recorded White Man and Iron Maiden came later with Run to the Hills, so there was nothing too outlandish about Phil writing a song about the subject.
I agree with you on this. This was the first Lizzy album I bought in 1980, and I loved it at the time (it was one of the few albums I owned so I played it to death!), but once I bought Bad Repuation and Black Rose the following year I realised how poor this album actually is. I also agree that the first side is much stronger than the second. 🤘
Wild Horses “Reservation” is another song about the plight of the Native American people from that time :)
good points mate
but this is a fucking good album
Jesus Davey talks too much
David should go last. He hogs the whole show.
Yes, he is long winded. I do find myself not minding it though the more I listen to him. He knows his shit.
Who, it´s 2 David.
@@jimekberg I assumed the lead off guest Davey. He gets a lot of heat on other shows for that too. But if he's interesting what is the problem? I realize though other people might not agree. But he is knowledgeable and passionate and I appreciate him.
Chinatow is not bad and not good...Disappointing album however.