Just finished a first DIY with Nudura. Complex 2300 sq ft basement walkout with 14 corners, 4 'T' walls, 10 1/2' from footer to top of wall, brick ledge 3 door openings and 6 window openings. Poured if in three pulls with no blowouts. Nudura has great online training resources, great distributor support, easy to use and now the coolest most comfortable part of the house. Highest praise for the whole experience!
20:37 You asked, "How often are you actually stacking from your floor up?" All the time--if you live in Florida or Texas, where we do slab-on-grade foundations a lot. I think the 18" high forms are a great idea. I wanted Nudura for that reason, however, I agree with you--it's all about who makes the blocks near you to save on shipping and get more support. That's why I went with Build Block. I went 15' high in the first pour. I had no blowouts (or even bulges) anywhere. I used a lot of strapping, but I think the 6" on center webs made the blocks strong enough anyway. The weak nubs are a major pain. You simply have to be careful with them.
Great video, thanks. I built a 2 story extension to my house in the UK with Nudura and found it really easy. Ive never previously done any construction before either. Total amateur. I would happily recommend Nudura. One of the deciding factors for me was the size of the block and the volume created with each one put down. It was very quick. Lots of great online resources and some of the uk distributors were very cery helpful. Cheers, Dave
Plasti fab from canada has blocks 16 1/2" tall, the extra half inch on each coures, added together with the treated plate, give you a true 8' basement without an extra course. Available in 6" with spreaders every 8", and 8" with spreaders every 6". Been pouring with them 12 years now, super impressed.
@@all3pools looking at self building with either superform or nudura. Wish you'd managed to include superform in this comparison since I've narrowed it down to those two. Any opinions about superform off the top of your head?
Crown is so weird. Never knew about that angled web. Edit - Seen the owners reply and now understand it alot better. Keep up the good work and innovation @Crown Now I see why Fox block and Nudura are at the top. I would choose either one. Thanks Aaron!
Do any manufacturers have stronger webs than others? Is the fastener pull-out strength of webs ever a concern? Can you hang a heavy sawn stone veneer on ICF?
Stone veneer is fine, you need to screw the wire lathe on instead of nailing but that’s the only difference, the only finish I’ve seen get denied even tho I’ve done it is nichiha cement board rain screen, basically because the screws are bridging through the foam 1/2-3/4” and supporting all the weight as it goes vertical, I’ve done it 8-9’ high with no issues but they worry with multiple stories…. Wire lathe stone veneer is adhered as it goes, totally fine
I am surprised you did not show Quadlock, they have so many choices for foam thickness from R-22 to R-59 (2-1/4 to 11-1/8" of foam on one side), and an unlimited core thickness as well as being a completely modular system. Can ICF's be used to construct a 50ft fire tower style structure that requires steel embed plates so large timbers can be used as floor joist for several floors within the tower?
appreciate ya doin a 2nd take, lol, but also hearing your thoughts on each as an experienced installer is valuable. it'd be a lot of effort, but detailed vids lookin at each mfg on a whole (not just block design) would be sweet. ----- kinda like the flat shipping & 6" tie spacing on Lite, but i'd have to hear from experienced installers if that virt edge works well or is a hassle. same with their "compact corner". does flat/compact offset shipping from Nebraska tho? do think their decking is possibly the best design, but i'll EAGERLY AWAIT your (hopefully upcoming hour-long) vid on ICF deck options, lol. Crown's sales representation/pressure is def frequent & persistent. i'm not really impressed by the design... thin, corner does look weak, requiring glue is a pain, inconsistent tie spacing (why allow it to slide when the ties need to be aligned for easier int/ex finish hanging anyway?). which makes me wonder why all the hype. Stronghold actually looks REALLY good w/all the lil details, density, & girth (is that foam thickness measured with or w/o the interior ribbing?). corners & Ts even have extra ties, and the attachment part is extra wide on all forms. end-caps look great for window/door bucking, no? honestly weren't previously on my radar cause none of the projects i've studied used them. need to find out where they're made & how expensive shipping to Abq becomes, compared to Fox up i25. also would need to check dimensions vs my plans (all my lengths/corners/openings are set to Fox currently - side note: kinda wish ICF were all standardized for this reason). nubs on Build look fragile, but 6" tie is nice. the seam of their deck being at the thin point is a no-go imo. Fox & FastFoot seem to pair well. you're not the only one who says their corners are good, and i hear support is solid. lots of plants around, so hopefully shipping costs are lower. notice frequent comments around that mention poor support/communication from Nudura, but Kody Horvey has good relation with them. sounds like complacency from success? block is YUGE, but i dunno if it's really a benefit, like you said... and then you get non-standard pallets too, right? foldable would be good, but i don't want to cut steel hinges.
Thank you for your inputs ,I am canadian who had limited expirence , but historicly since the 90's and am looking into expansion marketing and establishing factories into new untapped markets for manufactures can we connect ?
Thanks for the video! Does fox have a roof product? Roof product video would be insightful. What is your thought on using a volumetric mixer on a roof pour? Has it been done?
Great info. How’s come you didn’t have Quadlock in review. I have a house build project plan hope to start in a year or so. Is there an email that I can communicate in private with you? Thank you. Keep up the good work. Happy Sunday!!!
Great video showing how these ICF system works. I have one big question. I have watched several videos of using ICF in building basements. What drives me crazy is that no one tells how to fill the dirt on the outer walls. I think you need something applied on the wall that will have dirt against it. So help me sleep at night and tell me what methods you can use when back filling dirt on the outer wall of a basement. I will love you for ever! Well maybe...
I’ve seen several videos of people peeling a backing off a membrane and sticking huge sheets on the outside wall for waterproofing. The inside truss or framing for the second floor must be complete before backfill with drainage, crushed rock and fill. Otherwise the walls cannot support the inward pressure of the backfill.
How about the perfect block ? I like what they offer because of fire resistance and termite proof too. Would like to see a review and overall thoughts on that system.
It’s not icf, tons of issues with it in principal, I’ve tried to get up close to it but it hasn’t been at any of the big shows including world of concrete…
@@all3pools Interesting. I would like to hear your thoughts on why it has issues? I really like the idea of building with ICF but the termite and fire factor really concern me. Thanks for the breakdown on each of these brands. Really helpful!
It’s a great all around block! Stay tuned to my series of deep dives, there’s at least one newer block not in this series that will give them a run for their money
@@all3pools I would if it was my product I would. Sadly I’m reaching because I stumbled across there products as I’m trying to do research on products for a building I want to owner build. I’m in South Florida and I’m considering ifc walls and possibly roof over cbs. I’m doing a 30x70 shop / high end toy garage. Open to any suggestions
i decided against them & Omni due to the need for skilled masons, time, some thermal bridging, and difficulty of running MEP or attaching to them. fire resilience is quite good tho.
I have an opinion, it’s not good…. Many reasons but the support seems to be falling off I’m kind of rapidly, they haven’t even been at the big shows the last two years…
Buildblock is a far better block then Foxblock. 6" web spacing, a 1 inch bump factor, built in tape measure, fully reversible, and YES the short leg of their corner has 2 webs.
What’s better about 6” spacing? Just more plastic in the way right? Fully reversible is completely ubiquitous in the market now, fox, Nudura, soon logix, stronghold crown are all reversible…. And the corner is still small and weak compared to fox…. Don’t be a Homer, they are all good…. When people talk down about any competitive brand it hurts newbs confidence in the market as a whole…. If I were to do that I might bring up builds lack of Full height webs and why that limits my ability to pour tall wall without compaction…. But I would try to accentuate the positive…
@@all3pools I am in New Jersey and wanted to rebuild my residence with ICF block but could not find architect who could design my house around here. Any advice you can give me?
You don’t mention one of the most important metrics of a block system, the repeat distance. All ICFs are variations of the same thing, the import difference being the interlock style. (What you call “the nubs”. The interlock is what determines the minimum repeat distance, and how robust the blocks stay together. This is 100% due to what the block manufacturer could patent or license. Late to the block game, you get a crap interlock with a crap repeat distance. (Fox block) Early to market and were able to patent a 1” repeat and leak-free interlock? BuildBlock. This repeat distance directly impacts how efficiently you can use the block.
The only way that could happen is if the foam was an inch thick on each side and the core was 3” of concrete lol. It’s not even comparable to a 2x4 stick built house. 1) It’s a self supporting wall. Which means it’s also disaster resistant to ~250mph winds. 2) It’s a better insulated wall than even a 2x6 wall with 2” of exterior continuous insulation. 3) Fire resistant unlike wood 4) Sound deadening is unmatched with a stick built wall 5) Termite resistant 6) Water or flooding wouldn’t damage the wall. 7) It’s much more air tight than a stick built wall with little effort. Watch The Build Show Network and see the painstaking steps Risinger and his builder friends have to take to get anywhere close to an ICF house like Korey with Up to Kode has built with standard ICF construction.
Sprayfoam insulation has left homeowners in the UK trapped in their own home. unable to sell, because lenders will not loan money without a sign off from a surveyor, and surveyors cannot survey what is buried under foam. Making peoples homes worthless.
Explain? What is a surveyor? Is this done during construction or when home is complete, if so how do they see anything different once drywall is installed, I don’t follow
@@all3pools To lend money for a property, the bank needs to know the value of the property. The surveyor is hired to assess the condition of the property, seeking out any structural defects. And in this instance, if a property has sprayed insulation he cannot see behind that material to check the condition of the framing. Bottom line, sprayed foam insulation was a good idea, at the time, (just like diesel cars were a good idea, at the time), they did not understand the consequences, and today, it is considered a liability. Since doing a thorough survey would necessarily require removal of the foam, itself being a long, tedious and expensive proposition, which nobody wants to pay for, lenders simply will not touch any such transaction. And with a property having zero value, unless you have a cash buyer willing to waive consequential liability, the home is unsellable. In today's climate is "blame game", surveyors will not simply assume the framing is good. They know doing so, and there sometime in the future there being a problem with the property, it will come back on them. Spray foam is a ticking time bomb. Hope this explains it.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Just finished a first DIY with Nudura. Complex 2300 sq ft basement walkout with 14 corners, 4 'T' walls, 10 1/2' from footer to top of wall, brick ledge 3 door openings and 6 window openings. Poured if in three pulls with no blowouts. Nudura has great online training resources, great distributor support, easy to use and now the coolest most comfortable part of the house. Highest praise for the whole experience!
Thanks for choosing Nudura and loved reading about your positive experience
I used Nudura in the UK and it was great!
@@mbuchholz061Are you a nudura distributor? If so I would like to get in touch.
How much for 1 block?
20:37 You asked, "How often are you actually stacking from your floor up?" All the time--if you live in Florida or Texas, where we do slab-on-grade foundations a lot. I think the 18" high forms are a great idea. I wanted Nudura for that reason, however, I agree with you--it's all about who makes the blocks near you to save on shipping and get more support. That's why I went with Build Block. I went 15' high in the first pour. I had no blowouts (or even bulges) anywhere. I used a lot of strapping, but I think the 6" on center webs made the blocks strong enough anyway. The weak nubs are a major pain. You simply have to be careful with them.
Even in those climates going down thru the slab to a footing gives you the best possible thermal break, but I get it, very rare in colder climates
Great video, thanks. I built a 2 story extension to my house in the UK with Nudura and found it really easy. Ive never previously done any construction before either. Total amateur. I would happily recommend Nudura. One of the deciding factors for me was the size of the block and the volume created with each one put down. It was very quick. Lots of great online resources and some of the uk distributors were very cery helpful. Cheers, Dave
Plasti fab from canada has blocks 16 1/2" tall, the extra half inch on each coures, added together with the treated plate, give you a true 8' basement without an extra course. Available in 6" with spreaders every 8", and 8" with spreaders every 6". Been pouring with them 12 years now, super impressed.
So they are a weird off layout height just to make them equal a basement height that no one uses anymore? I don’t think I get it…
@all3pools we use that height all the time.
@all3pools an 8' high basement wall is quite common still
Thanks for doing it twice :D
You are welcome
@@all3pools looking at self building with either superform or nudura. Wish you'd managed to include superform in this comparison since I've narrowed it down to those two. Any opinions about superform off the top of your head?
Great video.....I am trying to decide which brand to go with
Did you decide which product to use yet?
Crown is so weird. Never knew about that angled web. Edit - Seen the owners reply and now understand it alot better. Keep up the good work and innovation @Crown
Now I see why Fox block and Nudura are at the top. I would choose either one.
Thanks Aaron!
It is weird, I think he understood that word isn’t negative but accurate lol
Do any manufacturers have stronger webs than others? Is the fastener pull-out strength of webs ever a concern? Can you hang a heavy sawn stone veneer on ICF?
Stone veneer is fine, you need to screw the wire lathe on instead of nailing but that’s the only difference, the only finish I’ve seen get denied even tho I’ve done it is nichiha cement board rain screen, basically because the screws are bridging through the foam 1/2-3/4” and supporting all the weight as it goes vertical, I’ve done it 8-9’ high with no issues but they worry with multiple stories…. Wire lathe stone veneer is adhered as it goes, totally fine
I like to see your thoughts on rx35 blocks and amvic r30 blocks
I agree! There aren’t many videos with the XR35 blocks.
Please do ICF decking comparison as well
Soon
I am surprised you did not show Quadlock, they have so many choices for foam thickness from R-22 to R-59 (2-1/4 to 11-1/8" of foam on one side), and an unlimited core thickness as well as being a completely modular system.
Can ICF's be used to construct a 50ft fire tower style structure that requires steel embed plates so large timbers can be used as floor joist for several floors within the tower?
appreciate ya doin a 2nd take, lol, but also hearing your thoughts on each as an experienced installer is valuable. it'd be a lot of effort, but detailed vids lookin at each mfg on a whole (not just block design) would be sweet.
-----
kinda like the flat shipping & 6" tie spacing on Lite, but i'd have to hear from experienced installers if that virt edge works well or is a hassle. same with their "compact corner". does flat/compact offset shipping from Nebraska tho? do think their decking is possibly the best design, but i'll EAGERLY AWAIT your (hopefully upcoming hour-long) vid on ICF deck options, lol.
Crown's sales representation/pressure is def frequent & persistent. i'm not really impressed by the design... thin, corner does look weak, requiring glue is a pain, inconsistent tie spacing (why allow it to slide when the ties need to be aligned for easier int/ex finish hanging anyway?). which makes me wonder why all the hype.
Stronghold actually looks REALLY good w/all the lil details, density, & girth (is that foam thickness measured with or w/o the interior ribbing?). corners & Ts even have extra ties, and the attachment part is extra wide on all forms. end-caps look great for window/door bucking, no? honestly weren't previously on my radar cause none of the projects i've studied used them. need to find out where they're made & how expensive shipping to Abq becomes, compared to Fox up i25. also would need to check dimensions vs my plans (all my lengths/corners/openings are set to Fox currently - side note: kinda wish ICF were all standardized for this reason).
nubs on Build look fragile, but 6" tie is nice. the seam of their deck being at the thin point is a no-go imo.
Fox & FastFoot seem to pair well. you're not the only one who says their corners are good, and i hear support is solid. lots of plants around, so hopefully shipping costs are lower.
notice frequent comments around that mention poor support/communication from Nudura, but Kody Horvey has good relation with them. sounds like complacency from success? block is YUGE, but i dunno if it's really a benefit, like you said... and then you get non-standard pallets too, right? foldable would be good, but i don't want to cut steel hinges.
Any thing about Quadlock?
Excellent video, thank you
23:15 You mention there is no one-sided solution for Foxblock. Did they discontinue their 'Reveal' product? Or did it never quite make it to market?
They discontinued it over 2 years ago
Thank you for your inputs ,I am canadian who had limited expirence , but historicly since the 90's and am looking into expansion marketing and establishing factories into new untapped markets for manufactures can we connect ?
Please do a review of:
Nexcem (formerly Durisol)
Rhino Block
Thanks for the video! Does fox have a roof product? Roof product video would be insightful. What is your thought on using a volumetric mixer on a roof pour? Has it been done?
Fox doesn’t, you just have to be able to pour fast enough to avoid cold joints
Great info. How’s come you didn’t have Quadlock in review. I have a house build project plan hope to start in a year or so. Is there an email that I can communicate in private with you? Thank you. Keep up the good work. Happy Sunday!!!
My house is quadlock from the footer up to the second floor. 2" foam inside and 4" outside. Next house will be quad lock.
Awesome video. Why didn't your go over SuperForm? What are your general thoughts on them?
Seems good, I didn’t have one to go over
Great video showing how these ICF system works. I have one big question. I have watched several videos of using ICF in building basements. What drives me crazy is that no one tells how to fill the dirt on the outer walls. I think you need something applied on the wall that will have dirt against it. So help me sleep at night and tell me what methods you can use when back filling dirt on the outer wall of a basement. I will love you for ever! Well maybe...
I’ve seen several videos of people peeling a backing off a membrane and sticking huge sheets on the outside wall for waterproofing. The inside truss or framing for the second floor must be complete before backfill with drainage, crushed rock and fill. Otherwise the walls cannot support the inward pressure of the backfill.
can you use fox blocks with other brands. if someone has some left from a job
It’s possible to have a horizontal bastard joint and change brands but they do not interlock with one another
@@all3pools Thank you we are planning on Fox block I saw some used on facebook
Would have loved to see amvic block. I believe diversified in nixa makes there block also
How about the perfect block ? I like what they offer because of fire resistance and termite proof too. Would like to see a review and overall thoughts on that system.
It’s not icf, tons of issues with it in principal, I’ve tried to get up close to it but it hasn’t been at any of the big shows including world of concrete…
@@all3pools
Interesting. I would like to hear your thoughts on why it has issues? I really like the idea of building with ICF but the termite and fire factor really concern me. Thanks for the breakdown on each of these brands. Really helpful!
Is it possible to still have the eco finish with build block if you peel off the foam on the inside? Or is there a lot more steps involved?
You should compare thermablock (formerly thermagreen block formerly u-block) and thermablock icf they are both polyurethane
Any recommendations for builders vicinity of Columbia, MO or north?
I’ve got bc a couple guys in Columbia, do you need architectural too or just build?
Crown icf looks like a Walmart block.. good info
Great info. Thanks
Fox Block looks the best!
It’s a great all around block! Stay tuned to my series of deep dives, there’s at least one newer block not in this series that will give them a run for their money
What about quad lock
If they send me a block I’ll review it…
@@all3pools I would if it was my product I would. Sadly I’m reaching because I stumbled across there products as I’m trying to do research on products for a building I want to owner build. I’m in South Florida and I’m considering ifc walls and possibly roof over cbs. I’m doing a 30x70 shop / high end toy garage. Open to any suggestions
@@all3pools one of the reason I asked about the brand above is it looks the do decking for floors and roof.
Why is Quad-Lock not mentioned in this video?
Because quadlock didn’t send me any block lol
Can you get corners less than 90 degrees?
Most make 45s but field cutting custom corners is easy
Have you had any experience with the Perfect Block? Any opinion on them?
I can’t find anything on composite ICF. My intent is to DIY/build with either the perfect block or Eterna and document the entire process.
i decided against them & Omni due to the need for skilled masons, time, some thermal bridging, and difficulty of running MEP or attaching to them.
fire resilience is quite good tho.
Been looking them up and they look amazing plus their customer service seems on point. But I bet it matters where you're located.
I have an opinion, it’s not good…. Many reasons but the support seems to be falling off I’m kind of rapidly, they haven’t even been at the big shows the last two years…
Buildblock is a far better block then Foxblock. 6" web spacing, a 1 inch bump factor, built in tape measure, fully reversible, and YES the short leg of their corner has 2 webs.
What’s better about 6” spacing? Just more plastic in the way right? Fully reversible is completely ubiquitous in the market now, fox, Nudura, soon logix, stronghold crown are all reversible…. And the corner is still small and weak compared to fox…. Don’t be a Homer, they are all good…. When people talk down about any competitive brand it hurts newbs confidence in the market as a whole…. If I were to do that I might bring up builds lack of Full height webs and why that limits my ability to pour tall wall without compaction…. But I would try to accentuate the positive…
You did not give a review of AMVIC blocks why is that. I would like to know some details on Amvic
I didn’t have any amvic blocks…. Good block🤷🏻♂️
@@all3pools I am in New Jersey and wanted to rebuild my residence with ICF block but could not find architect who could design my house around here. Any advice you can give me?
Thanks for doing it twice! lol. Murphy’s law buddy
Why didn't you include us in your review?
We would have sent you some sample Blox... 😢
Send them, I’m not done doing a series of in depth single brand vids! Email me at aaron.king@all3pools.com
how can I get in touch with you
Aaron.king@all3pools.com
You don’t mention one of the most important metrics of a block system, the repeat distance. All ICFs are variations of the same thing, the import difference being the interlock style. (What you call “the nubs”. The interlock is what determines the minimum repeat distance, and how robust the blocks stay together. This is 100% due to what the block manufacturer could patent or license. Late to the block game, you get a crap interlock with a crap repeat distance. (Fox block) Early to market and were able to patent a 1” repeat and leak-free interlock? BuildBlock.
This repeat distance directly impacts how efficiently you can use the block.
👍🏼
If and WHEN a manufacturer gets icf to match or beat wood framing cost. Demand and acceptance will explode.
The only way that could happen is if the foam was an inch thick on each side and the core was 3” of concrete lol.
It’s not even comparable to a 2x4 stick built house.
1) It’s a self supporting wall. Which means it’s also disaster resistant to ~250mph winds.
2) It’s a better insulated wall than even a 2x6 wall with 2” of exterior continuous insulation.
3) Fire resistant unlike wood
4) Sound deadening is unmatched with a stick built wall
5) Termite resistant
6) Water or flooding wouldn’t damage the wall.
7) It’s much more air tight than a stick built wall with little effort. Watch The Build Show Network and see the painstaking steps Risinger and his builder friends have to take to get anywhere close to an ICF house like Korey with Up to Kode has built with standard ICF construction.
ICFs are cheaper over the long run than wood if you consider heating and AC savings.
Fuck it! Doing it live!
Basically lol
Kaylee Route
Sprayfoam insulation has left homeowners in the UK trapped in their own home. unable to sell, because lenders will not loan money without a sign off from a surveyor, and surveyors cannot survey what is buried under foam. Making peoples homes worthless.
Explain? What is a surveyor? Is this done during construction or when home is complete, if so how do they see anything different once drywall is installed, I don’t follow
@@all3pools To lend money for a property, the bank needs to know the value of the property. The surveyor is hired to assess the condition of the property, seeking out any structural defects. And in this instance, if a property has sprayed insulation he cannot see behind that material to check the condition of the framing. Bottom line, sprayed foam insulation was a good idea, at the time, (just like diesel cars were a good idea, at the time), they did not understand the consequences, and today, it is considered a liability. Since doing a thorough survey would necessarily require removal of the foam, itself being a long, tedious and expensive proposition, which nobody wants to pay for, lenders simply will not touch any such transaction. And with a property having zero value, unless you have a cash buyer willing to waive consequential liability, the home is unsellable. In today's climate is "blame game", surveyors will not simply assume the framing is good. They know doing so, and there sometime in the future there being a problem with the property, it will come back on them. Spray foam is a ticking time bomb. Hope this explains it.
Inspection for insurance and sale. If you can't see the underside of the roof and the joists, more and more won't pass it.
They cost too much, almost 40 bucks a block
lol you are getting taken…. Almost all these blocks in the vid are under 30…
@all3pools still costs twice as much as just using snap tie forms doesn't it.?
Harris Ronald Wilson Dorothy Clark Dorothy
hahahaha 25 minutes, Happens every time. Love the videos though