So the moral of the story is: nightmare stats do little for bosses, but they make normal enemies terrifying. What was most impressive was how all those cacos IMMEDIATELY focused on the center spider and brought it down in SECONDS. Their fire rate combined with the concentrated fire meant DEATH. See, the scary thing about the spider has never been it's raw damage; it's the fact that it uses bullets, which are hitscan. The barons, the cacos, the cyber, the mancies, they all have projectiles you can sidestep, but a chaingun? If the spider is on target, you're taking damage, period. Of course, that doesn't matter when you're one of multiple targets all raining death on it and stunlocking it into oblivion...
The Spider Masterminds fared better this time,.I think its mainly due to Cacodemons' high pain chance, they're incapacitated when hit with rapid gunfire.
It's not really necessary. The reason why the Spider Mastermind seems so weak is because she's far more susceptible to being stunlocked in this kind of scenario. Unlike a Cyberdemon, her attack has a wind up before she starts shooting and also is mostly for continuous, *uninterrupted* fire. A single shot of hers doesn't do much, but a single shot by the Cyberdemon can be quite deadly already and he keeps taking single pot shots with those even when it keeps getting hit. The thing with her is that it's hard to use her well and it can quickly go from "lol, oneshot ez" to "being turned into swiss cheese" with her.
@@Tyrian3k yea pretty much, he has the hitscan attack too which makes him like a beefier version of the heavy weapons dude, which is by far one of the most deadly units in the game, the cyberdemon by comparison is pretty easy as his attacks are very easy to dodge.
Definitely a match of "how to get stuck in the pain state" on nightmare. The pain chance is very low on nightmare but the cacodemons can fire at the incredible rate on nightmare that the chance becomes every possible frame. Nonetheless, a very entertaining video, thank ❤
I don't know what it is about the AI for Ultra Violence Spider Masterminds but it seems to take forever to chose a target and fire. It's like they are not designed to take on multiple targets. If it would just pick a target and spam it's attacks everything would melt. They have a Rapid Fire Shotgun fgs.
That's kind of why she's pathetic as a boss. Her chaingun's only effective at targeting one enemy at a time and gets less effective the further an enemy is. In comparison, the Cyberdemon can slaughter entire small armies of enemies single-handed most of the time since it's aggressive attacking with its rocket launcher, higher HP, and the blast damage from said rockets can wipe out multiple enemies at a time or at least significantly damage them.
@@Moleoflands I wouldn't call 15.63% massive as far as pain chances go. But against high rates of projectiles being fired from Nightmare Cacos, any wonder she's pathetic as a boss.
Any monster, including the bosses, is designed against the player, not other monsters. Whenever you're not covered from this boss, you take damage and in turn, it has the hit points of a boss against your attacks. But if you go to E3M8 with the BFG, it goes down fast enough not to give you trouble, especially knowing how the BFG works. P.S. I'm sure they thought about arming it with a BFG or plasma gun, but thought at the time that it would be too deadly.
What? No, the Cyber and Spider are immune to barrel/rocket/Arch-Vile flame explosion damage. The "guaranteed hit if not covered" thing only applies to melee attacks which are coded differently between players and monsters and even then have limited range in both cases, as well as Arch-Vile flames. The Spider just has a wide spread with her gun, especially because it fires THREE bullets at once with every burst-same burst as the shotgunner's attacks. And chaingunners are just quick to fire.
Object-based projectiles can't damage monsters of matching types. So Cacos can't get hurt by other Caco sparks. Still, that they block other sparks from passing is bad. That's what Nightmare's for, though.
It appears that much fire is waisted by agents neglecting to seek a clear firing line of sight. More assault damage is wasted on friendly fire than what hits the enemy. A minor improvement in AI might correct this.
In a strange way I kinda get it. The spider mastermind is the BRAINS whereas everyone else is the muscles. When military rank is considered this makes sense. For instance I was in the service. E grades were the muscle and could easily whip any officer in a fight but the damned PAPERWORK they hit you with was a career killer! ... how do I know this lol
Seemed like no matter what the scenario here Mastermind was at a disadvantage considering they could also pain each other and cacos can't. Still an interesting fight to see nonetheless.
I'm surprised the mastermind took on 10 cacos and won? Her pain chance is way to low for a boss which is was 5% at least she would be much more dangerous.
It seems like the main decider is the reaction counter. With Nightmare! forcing it to zero, and especially if the tomatoes are spread out, it massively shifts the balance against the spider.
Apparently the center Caco in the first matches couldn't take the Spider's gaze and tried to run away. Real good friend there. Or maybe he tried to fight with hole products. :
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
The writing was on the wall, when you see 1 Mastermind struggle to kill 5 Cacodemons.
a win is a win.
I still love the Spider Mama. One of the coolest monster designs ever, even if she isn’t too tough in combat.
To each their own. I found the SM a huge disappointment compared to the Cyberdemon.
@@DrownedInExile its because her weapon is deadly on pointblank only,
at 3 to 4 meters its bullet spread gets wider depends on distance
So the moral of the story is: nightmare stats do little for bosses, but they make normal enemies terrifying. What was most impressive was how all those cacos IMMEDIATELY focused on the center spider and brought it down in SECONDS. Their fire rate combined with the concentrated fire meant DEATH.
See, the scary thing about the spider has never been it's raw damage; it's the fact that it uses bullets, which are hitscan. The barons, the cacos, the cyber, the mancies, they all have projectiles you can sidestep, but a chaingun? If the spider is on target, you're taking damage, period. Of course, that doesn't matter when you're one of multiple targets all raining death on it and stunlocking it into oblivion...
The Spider Masterminds fared better this time,.I think its mainly due to Cacodemons' high pain chance, they're incapacitated when hit with rapid gunfire.
Nightmare Cacodemons: all for 1, and 1 for all!
The Spider Mastermind definitely needs an upgrade. I wouldn't be against Romero going back and upgrading enemies
It's not really necessary. The reason why the Spider Mastermind seems so weak is because she's far more susceptible to being stunlocked in this kind of scenario. Unlike a Cyberdemon, her attack has a wind up before she starts shooting and also is mostly for continuous, *uninterrupted* fire. A single shot of hers doesn't do much, but a single shot by the Cyberdemon can be quite deadly already and he keeps taking single pot shots with those even when it keeps getting hit.
The thing with her is that it's hard to use her well and it can quickly go from "lol, oneshot ez" to "being turned into swiss cheese" with her.
@@Tyrian3k yea pretty much, he has the hitscan attack too which makes him like a beefier version of the heavy weapons dude, which is by far one of the most deadly units in the game, the cyberdemon by comparison is pretty easy as his attacks are very easy to dodge.
The last of first cacos hit spider 2 times and other caco 4 times, what a great teamplayer.
Definitely a match of "how to get stuck in the pain state" on nightmare. The pain chance is very low on nightmare but the cacodemons can fire at the incredible rate on nightmare that the chance becomes every possible frame. Nonetheless, a very entertaining video, thank ❤
I don't know what it is about the AI for Ultra Violence Spider Masterminds but it seems to take forever to chose a target and fire. It's like they are not designed to take on multiple targets. If it would just pick a target and spam it's attacks everything would melt. They have a Rapid Fire Shotgun fgs.
That's kind of why she's pathetic as a boss. Her chaingun's only effective at targeting one enemy at a time and gets less effective the further an enemy is. In comparison, the Cyberdemon can slaughter entire small armies of enemies single-handed most of the time since it's aggressive attacking with its rocket launcher, higher HP, and the blast damage from said rockets can wipe out multiple enemies at a time or at least significantly damage them.
The issue is the SM has a massive pain chance, so flinched wreck it
@@Moleoflands I wouldn't call 15.63% massive as far as pain chances go. But against high rates of projectiles being fired from Nightmare Cacos, any wonder she's pathetic as a boss.
Of course it's not designed to fight multiple targets, it's designed to fight YOU
@@ggn3 Nightmare isn't supposed to be "normal" play, plus you usually face her with very little help at most in the stock levels.
I'm surprised the SM actually won a few matches. Guess the big hitboxes of Cacodemons make them easy targets.
I love that Caco in the beginning : I'm outta here!
Any monster, including the bosses, is designed against the player, not other monsters. Whenever you're not covered from this boss, you take damage and in turn, it has the hit points of a boss against your attacks. But if you go to E3M8 with the BFG, it goes down fast enough not to give you trouble, especially knowing how the BFG works. P.S. I'm sure they thought about arming it with a BFG or plasma gun, but thought at the time that it would be too deadly.
What? No, the Cyber and Spider are immune to barrel/rocket/Arch-Vile flame explosion damage. The "guaranteed hit if not covered" thing only applies to melee attacks which are coded differently between players and monsters and even then have limited range in both cases, as well as Arch-Vile flames. The Spider just has a wide spread with her gun, especially because it fires THREE bullets at once with every burst-same burst as the shotgunner's attacks. And chaingunners are just quick to fire.
@@CarbonRollerCaco What you said has almost nothing to do with what I said
That activation distance on nightmare difficulty really makes a lot of difference, and the rate of fire
Nightmare Cacos are no joke! (Spiderdemons are though, at any skill level 😄)
Nice video. Liked and subbed 😁
Spider Mastermind's pain chance is quite bad. It takes about 1 out of every 8 shots to trigger a pain chance.
I think it would be interesting to see the same kind of experiments but with the pain chance removed
Es interesante que en pesadilla ver que los cacos concentran todo el 🔥 hacia un solo objetivo
"Hacia un solo objetivo"… not as punchy as in English :
Cacodemons on nightmare sure shoot fast af!
Alt title: Angry tomatoes bully a giant spider on a chaingun
-tomatoes- *Cacodemons
i think if the cacos were more spread out in the last 30 vs 5 they would have held up better. maybe if they were floating
Basically a heavy shotgun dude...
Needs either armor to contend with, or twice the health.
i think the real problem is monsters nuetralizing their own energy balls/blasts. monsters damaging themselves due to proximity.
Object-based projectiles can't damage monsters of matching types. So Cacos can't get hurt by other Caco sparks. Still, that they block other sparks from passing is bad. That's what Nightmare's for, though.
The Spider Mastermind has such a high pain chance that it has no chance against nightmare stat cacodemons.
flying tomat
-tomat- *Cacodemon
I'm just wondering why the Tomatoes keep converging into the center of the map.
Spider Queens vs. Floating Tomatoes
6:15 best battle
Poor lovely Cacodemons. :((
It appears that much fire is waisted by agents neglecting to seek a clear firing line of sight. More assault damage is wasted on friendly fire than what hits the enemy. A minor improvement in AI might correct this.
Cacodemon #5: adios amigos
In a strange way I kinda get it. The spider mastermind is the BRAINS whereas everyone else is the muscles. When military rank is considered this makes sense.
For instance I was in the service. E grades were the muscle and could easily whip any officer in a fight but the damned PAPERWORK they hit you with was a career killer!
... how do I know this lol
Seemed like no matter what the scenario here Mastermind was at a disadvantage considering they could also pain each other and cacos can't. Still an interesting fight to see nonetheless.
Why are the fireballs the wrong color?
Lightning tomato go brrrrrttt
-tomato- *Cacodemon
lol in 3 vs that dude up the back probably did half the damage to his buddies
C'mon flying tomatoes, you can do it!💪
-tomatoes- *Cacodemons
@@thedkm-4894 🗿
@@absoultethings4213 🗿
Rare I root for Cacos, but 5 on 1 spread out nightmare was clutch haha
"Rare I root for Cacos"
:
@@CarbonRollerCaco Cacos all day 🍅🥰
I'm surprised the mastermind took on 10 cacos and won? Her pain chance is way to low for a boss which is was 5% at least she would be much more dangerous.
It seems like the main decider is the reaction counter. With Nightmare! forcing it to zero, and especially if the tomatoes are spread out, it massively shifts the balance against the spider.
-tomatoes- *Cacodemons
@@thedkm-4894 Astral dreadnought heads if you really want to be pedantic.
@@trisar2146 Bullshit! that not their official names, so grow up!
Cacodemons are cats, right?
Apparently the center Caco in the first matches couldn't take the Spider's gaze and tried to run away. Real good friend there. Or maybe he tried to fight with hole products. :
Nightmare (fast monster) 1.4 very good.. 1.4 .4
Cocodemons wins
Spider mama is really pathetic 😐