I've been stumped as to why my Saab was idling so badly and constantly sputtering while in idle and while trying to accelerate My check engine light has been on forever... I thought it was a misfire due to bad plugs, so I replaced all of the plugs and coil packs thinking that would solve the problem, and no it sure didn't. Car still sputtered uncontrollably. I just happened to be browsing solutions on RUclips and came across this video. Went out to my car afterwards and low and behold, my vacuum line is broken. Found the problem! Seriously thank you so much for this upload. You don't know how long I've been trying to figure out the issue!!! This is a huge relief!!!
@@CycloneCyd Forgive me if I sound stupid, I will be the first to admit, I'm no expert mechanic... I know just enough where I can service minor things on my car. But the line that was busted is the one that runs directly underneath the Power Steering fluid reservoir. I only found it because of the hissing noise it was making when I was looking around for issues. Is that the line that has to regulate fuel pressure? I assumed it was something to do with fuel pressure, because whenever my car would sputter, it was acting like it wasn't getting enough fuel or something.
this is exactly what’s going on with my vehicle thank you guys so much for the reference of direction I have a 2010 aero I’m having the exact same issue and I was coming off the express way all of a sudden when I was going from 3rd to 4th gear I heard this odd sound” then I had to switch over two lanes and coast home after stopping once
Not a lot of people doing videos on saabs are straight forward they don't explain it as you do you do an excellent job cyclone 👍 I salute you from Los Angeles California
my 93 mightve been parked for over a year now, but i still tune in to watch your videos. Always a great and straight forward experience, also happy new year!
Awesome, I hope you find it useful. Even the slightest pinprick in the stock rubber hoses can cause the car to run a little 'off'. I should have known better and replaced my hoses long before now, because as soon as I made this video and went to Manchester to visit my Mum, it was obvious the engine was running smoother. Typically, the stock rubber hoses are good for 8-12 years life. Anyone with a 9-3 should be considering changing them now. And that brittle cobra.
I've often heard about leaky hoses and thought I should do something about it, but lacking the knowledge of what pipe does what/goes where you've made it clear, thank you Cyd. I now have a few projects to do when it warms up a bit. Happy New Year mate, keep up the good work 🙂
Okay. Intake hose replaced. 12mm vacuum hose replaced. COBRA hose replaced. There is a black plastic ring that hosts the clamp on the turbo side of the COBRA which threw us off. Also, the COBRA spigot is 4mm and a converter to 5mm appeared necessary. Not having a converter, we used a 5mm hose and just tie clamped it on the COBRA spigot. Car does seem to be running better in tests.
My 9-3 was feeling weak and slow but didn't throw any codes. Did this yesterday and it was a massive improvement. Will also replace the cobra, just need to find a reducing connector or another solution to that problem. Just ordered the T delete for the cooling system as well, feels safer that way.
Cyd, on a side note, you might want to add the vacuum hose, that's located to the right of the oil dipstick a bit underneath the TB bracket, that leads to the purge valve. The original part is an elbow reducer. I recently swapped it out as it was causing a p0300/p0441 code. I used a piece of fuel line from the engine to the check valve. Hopefully, you'll have a video of silicone hoses and check valves (with part numbers for the valves) alongside of the second portion of the brake hose.
I have one of these cars (someone gave it to me) and I didn't have the heart to send it to the graveyard and am trying to spruce it back up. So far, I replaced the ECU (including installing a heat sink). Replaced coolant cap. Replaced bolts on engine cover and plug/coil cover (the Torx bolts strip easily when they get old). Replaced the coolant cap. Replaced spark plugs. Now, I have to either replace coils, or replace these hoses to address a P0300 code. I think after watching this, I am going to install the vacuum hoses next (plus that 12mm hose).
That blue looks really good. You don't strike me as a flamboyant modder for the purpose of making your engine simply look attractive to garner compliments, but your engine has has some customized appearance to it now. It happens to look great with the blue hoses.
@@drummin2dabeat itmight. My main reason for blue was partly because the car is blue, but mainly so I could easily see which hoses had been replaced and which had not.
@CycloneCyd turns out that they didn't sell the yellow in one of those sizes. And the Cobra hose didn't look like it came in yellow (yellow was an option but when you selected yellow a different hose came up). So I went with Blue!
@@drummin2dabeat that'll only be because the factory haven't yet made a yellow one. Onve someone orders a yellow one, they'll get a photo for the listing. Remember, these hoses aremade to order!
One thing to note: silicone hoses that come from China are often not reinforced with anything so they very easily nick and can leak. Thankfully the hoses are at the top of the engine bay, otherwise I’d worry about rocks and road debris cutting into them. I just recently installed a bunch of these hoses in my girlfriends car, and as I was cutting each hose I realized I could cut through them like butter. The only hose that was reinforced with anything was the cobra after the air box. I do recommend hanging onto the old lines just in case.
Vacuum hose is not reinforced, not even OE rubber hose is reinforced. All the other hoses I sell are reinforced though. I wouldn't recommend something to my viewers if I didn't think it was suitable for the application.
@@CycloneCyd That's fair. I appreciate the videos and hard work you do, I just thought I would mention it since it does seem a lot softer of a material than the rubber hose.
Hi Syd. Just been replacing all of my vacuum hoses with silicone, using your video as a guide 😊👍 All of mine were absolutely solid onto the joins and all had to be spliced off with a knife! One thing I noticed though, is that the very long one that goes from the bypass solenoid to the turbo is rubber at each end but solid silver metal in the middle on my car 🤔 Is this usual, or am I missing a trick? D'you think I should change it or leave? Cheers 😊
Thanks this for this vid. I am having an issue where my 2008 will die on a warm start and occasional rough idle on cold start. IS this the same process for 2008 2.0 models?
Can you explain what you used to mount the silicone hose to the Cobra? I ordered the same cobra, which has a steel threaded pipe on the location where i should mount the hose. I assume i have to remove this steel pipe and stick a hose pillar in it? A link to a part would be nice!
Excellent content 👍.... I'm getting some very slight bubbles starting on my rear wheel arches on my 2008 9-3 is this a big problem do you know?..... Also happy new year 🥳
If it's only slight bubbles, get it into a paint shop asap for sorting or you'll need new wheelarches soon like I did ruclips.net/user/shortsV1Ycp45Emuk
Cyd, I just bought your throttle body hose, Zobra, 4mm and 5mm hoses for the vacumlines off Aliexpress. Looking forward installing them. However, Ive got a question. There is a lot of different sillicon hose kits for B207 out there on eBay and Aliexpress. Which one should I choose? The ones Im looking at includes 14 pieces and the price is around 200 pounds. Ive checked ST-Cool seller but them dont have a kit for the B207 sadly.
Hmm, my 2010 2.0T doesn't seem to be quite the same as your setup. I wonder if it's different due to California/US emissions requirements. The vacuum line from the top of the bypass valve solenoid doesn't go to the cobra, but rather to a nipple on a steel(?) pipe that's insanely difficult to get at - the nipple is just to the left of the ECU (looking from the front of the car) and under the short coolant hose that goes from the engine block to the "t" fitting that many of us replace with the metal one (or with your coolant hose). Any idea what's up with that?
The vac line from the bypass valve solenoid doesn't go to the cobra anyway - it goes to the bypass valve, so not sure what you mean there. Maybe the vac line is part rubber and part steel pipe? Have you traced it round? Does it go to the bypass valve?
@@CycloneCyd sorry if my post is confusing. I’m referring to the small black box to the right of the ECU that has three vacuum hoses connected to it: left, right and top, and an electrical connector on the back. On mine, the top hose goes to a nipple on a silver metal pipe to the left of the ECU, under the coolant hose.
@@CycloneCyd I think you're right. It's unfortunate that the junction between the rubber and metal portions is in a "you'd have to be a contortionist" spot.
I think that you may be referring to: 1. the wastegate actuator and it's control solenoid (valve) and 2. the bypass valve and it's control solenoid (valve). They are two distinct parts of the turbo system with quite seperate and distinct functions. The wastegate control solenoid operates the wastegate control actuator (vacuum operated) which in turn opens or closes the wastegate which in turn controls the amount of energy the turbo extracts from the hot exhaust gases. The bypass valve is essentially a pressure relief valve. If the turbo is at full chat (pumping maximum air at max boost) and the throttle is closed by the driver there is a time lag (2-5 revs of the crank) before the turbo slows. In the meantime the turbo compressor is pumping air hard up against the closed throttle. The BPV lets some of this excess pressure out, so the engine is not overwhelmed by an excess of air when the throttle is opened again. HTH
Someone else commented the same, but the links work fine for me when I click on them. Try this instead: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DkFVzTh let me know if it's okay your end.
Is 4mm enough for the whole process or do I need 5mm or bigger? Just wondering because I can only get 3mm, 4mm, 6mm and 8mm. 5mm is not available for me to get.
I ordered the new COBRA and adapter. But the adapter didn't fit into the extension from the COBRA and the supplied, metal pin fit the COBRA but ran right through the suggested adapter ID. So I drilled out the COBRA extension with a 4mm bit, only about 40% of the length. I inserted the adapter as far as possible into the drilled out portion of the extension, the pushed the pin through the adapter and all the way into the extension. Secured with 100mm ziptie. Put the hose over the remaining part of the adapter and another ziptie. NOTE that I used 5mm hoses for these connected to the wastegate valve and the originals all seemed bigger than 4mm. Anyone else notice this?
I hope I’m not gaslighting myself here but - the sizes we took off around the wastegate solenoid were 5mm and the 4mm we tried as mentioned in the video are way to tight to get on. So we went with 5mm back there. We bought from the link provided. Is this an oversight? Are we going mad 😮
@@sejn2587 The trouble is I've thrown my old vac hoses away now, so I can't double check. I defo fitted 4mm around the wastegate solenoid - they were a little tight but went on okay. I found 5mm to be a little slack. I did use a little WD to help them slide on. I'll have another look at it in the next couple of weeks. If I found I was in error, I'll have to re-edit and republish the video (you can't edit published videos - I wish you could). Thanks for the heads up
CYD on a completely different note I asked a question looking ur advice previously! Could you possibly please 🙏 advise me on the correct LED DRL + amber indicator as in ur previous videos that would suit a saab 9-5 ng areo 2011. (Looking to remove my Amber cover on glass) Would really appreciate advice and would thank you again via PayPal. Thanks for your help in advance and keep up the good work helping keep SAABs on the road for 2023 . BTW Happy New year !
@@owenmindwise yes, the info helps me, but not you! No-one makes a dual colour switchback bulb with a BAY9S base. The only way I can see of achieving this would be to use the bulbs I link in my DRL video and convert the bulb holder inside the headlamp to a P21W type such as these s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDFsR4j. Possible to do, but will test your fabrication skills
🔴 Saab 9-3 Fuel Pressure Regulator Replacement & Testing: ruclips.net/video/MvACcx7eLg4/видео.html
I've been stumped as to why my Saab was idling so badly and constantly sputtering while in idle and while trying to accelerate
My check engine light has been on forever... I thought it was a misfire due to bad plugs, so I replaced all of the plugs and coil packs thinking that would solve the problem, and no it sure didn't. Car still sputtered uncontrollably.
I just happened to be browsing solutions on RUclips and came across this video.
Went out to my car afterwards and low and behold, my vacuum line is broken. Found the problem!
Seriously thank you so much for this upload. You don't know how long I've been trying to figure out the issue!!!
This is a huge relief!!!
Which vac line was it?
@@CycloneCyd Forgive me if I sound stupid, I will be the first to admit, I'm no expert mechanic... I know just enough where I can service minor things on my car.
But the line that was busted is the one that runs directly underneath the Power Steering fluid reservoir.
I only found it because of the hissing noise it was making when I was looking around for issues.
Is that the line that has to regulate fuel pressure? I assumed it was something to do with fuel pressure, because whenever my car would sputter, it was acting like it wasn't getting enough fuel or something.
@@PrincessZelda_is_My_Side_Chick sounds like your brake booster vacuum line.
ruclips.net/video/mT8Sne0q_2g/видео.html
@@CycloneCyd yea I watched the video and that is definitely the line that is broken
this is exactly what’s going on with my vehicle thank you guys so much for the reference of direction I have a 2010 aero I’m having the exact same issue and I was coming off the express way all of a sudden when I was going from 3rd to 4th gear I heard this odd sound” then I had to switch over two lanes and coast home after stopping once
Not a lot of people doing videos on saabs are straight forward they don't explain it as you do you do an excellent job cyclone 👍 I salute you from Los Angeles California
Thanks, and a HNY to you
my 93 mightve been parked for over a year now, but i still tune in to watch your videos. Always a great and straight forward experience, also happy new year!
Thank you, that's nice to hear. A HNY to you too
thank you for all of your videos you create, I enjoy them so much!
You are so welcome!
Thank you. I've been waiting for a 9-3 specific video detailing this. I look forward to trying this out as an upgrade.
Awesome, I hope you find it useful. Even the slightest pinprick in the stock rubber hoses can cause the car to run a little 'off'. I should have known better and replaced my hoses long before now, because as soon as I made this video and went to Manchester to visit my Mum, it was obvious the engine was running smoother.
Typically, the stock rubber hoses are good for 8-12 years life. Anyone with a 9-3 should be considering changing them now. And that brittle cobra.
I've often heard about leaky hoses and thought I should do something about it, but lacking the knowledge of what pipe does what/goes where you've made it clear, thank you Cyd. I now have a few projects to do when it warms up a bit. Happy New Year mate, keep up the good work 🙂
Glad to help. HNY to you too.
Okay. Intake hose replaced. 12mm vacuum hose replaced. COBRA hose replaced. There is a black plastic ring that hosts the clamp on the turbo side of the COBRA which threw us off. Also, the COBRA spigot is 4mm and a converter to 5mm appeared necessary. Not having a converter, we used a 5mm hose and just tie clamped it on the COBRA spigot. Car does seem to be running better in tests.
Yes ! Finally the video I was requesting ! Thanks and happy new year !!
Happy new year!!
My 9-3 was feeling weak and slow but didn't throw any codes. Did this yesterday and it was a massive improvement. Will also replace the cobra, just need to find a reducing connector or another solution to that problem.
Just ordered the T delete for the cooling system as well, feels safer that way.
This guy knows hose 😉💪
👍💯
Perfect.
Happy 2023.
Thanks. And to you
Hello-thanks for the guide! Did you ever do a video on replacing the vacuum hose that goes to the brake booster?
Cyd, on a side note, you might want to add the vacuum hose, that's located to the right of the oil dipstick a bit underneath the TB bracket, that leads to the purge valve.
The original part is an elbow reducer. I recently swapped it out as it was causing a p0300/p0441 code. I used a piece of fuel line from the engine to the check valve.
Hopefully, you'll have a video of silicone hoses and check valves (with part numbers for the valves) alongside of the second portion of the brake hose.
I have one of these cars (someone gave it to me) and I didn't have the heart to send it to the graveyard and am trying to spruce it back up. So far, I replaced the ECU (including installing a heat sink). Replaced coolant cap. Replaced bolts on engine cover and plug/coil cover (the Torx bolts strip easily when they get old). Replaced the coolant cap. Replaced spark plugs. Now, I have to either replace coils, or replace these hoses to address a P0300 code. I think after watching this, I am going to install the vacuum hoses next (plus that 12mm hose).
That blue looks really good. You don't strike me as a flamboyant modder for the purpose of making your engine simply look attractive to garner compliments, but your engine has has some customized appearance to it now. It happens to look great with the blue hoses.
I wasn't sure I would, but I'm liking the blue too.
@@CycloneCyd The blue does look good indeed. I am thinking that yellow might make it easier to see any splits or ruptures on the hoses going forward.
@@drummin2dabeat itmight. My main reason for blue was partly because the car is blue, but mainly so I could easily see which hoses had been replaced and which had not.
@CycloneCyd turns out that they didn't sell the yellow in one of those sizes. And the Cobra hose didn't look like it came in yellow (yellow was an option but when you selected yellow a different hose came up). So I went with Blue!
@@drummin2dabeat that'll only be because the factory haven't yet made a yellow one. Onve someone orders a yellow one, they'll get a photo for the listing. Remember, these hoses aremade to order!
One thing to note: silicone hoses that come from China are often not reinforced with anything so they very easily nick and can leak. Thankfully the hoses are at the top of the engine bay, otherwise I’d worry about rocks and road debris cutting into them. I just recently installed a bunch of these hoses in my girlfriends car, and as I was cutting each hose I realized I could cut through them like butter. The only hose that was reinforced with anything was the cobra after the air box. I do recommend hanging onto the old lines just in case.
Vacuum hose is not reinforced, not even OE rubber hose is reinforced. All the other hoses I sell are reinforced though.
I wouldn't recommend something to my viewers if I didn't think it was suitable for the application.
@@CycloneCyd That's fair. I appreciate the videos and hard work you do, I just thought I would mention it since it does seem a lot softer of a material than the rubber hose.
Hi Syd.
Just been replacing all of my vacuum hoses with silicone, using your video as a guide 😊👍 All of mine were absolutely solid onto the joins and all had to be spliced off with a knife! One thing I noticed though, is that the very long one that goes from the bypass solenoid to the turbo is rubber at each end but solid silver metal in the middle on my car 🤔 Is this usual, or am I missing a trick? D'you think I should change it or leave?
Cheers 😊
Thanks this for this vid. I am having an issue where my 2008 will die on a warm start and occasional rough idle on cold start. IS this the same process for 2008 2.0 models?
Did you ever find where we can get the long plastic hose with the fittings as mentioned in the video?
You mean the vac pipe to the brake booster? ruclips.net/video/mT8Sne0q_2g/видео.html
Can you explain what you used to mount the silicone hose to the Cobra? I ordered the same cobra, which has a steel threaded pipe on the location where i should mount the hose. I assume i have to remove this steel pipe and stick a hose pillar in it? A link to a part would be nice!
Excellent content 👍.... I'm getting some very slight bubbles starting on my rear wheel arches on my 2008 9-3 is this a big problem do you know?..... Also happy new year 🥳
If it's only slight bubbles, get it into a paint shop asap for sorting or you'll need new wheelarches soon like I did ruclips.net/user/shortsV1Ycp45Emuk
@@CycloneCyd yeah that's what I thought 💭🤔, I'll get it sorted in the next week or two 🕑. Thanks again for your help 👍
Will these measurements work on a 2005 9-3 Aero Convertible? Also when you say tie wraps is it the same thing as a zip tie?
Cyd, I just bought your throttle body hose, Zobra, 4mm and 5mm hoses for the vacumlines off Aliexpress. Looking forward installing them. However, Ive got a question. There is a lot of different sillicon hose kits for B207 out there on eBay and Aliexpress. Which one should I choose? The ones Im looking at includes 14 pieces and the price is around 200 pounds. Ive checked ST-Cool seller but them dont have a kit for the B207 sadly.
Hmm, my 2010 2.0T doesn't seem to be quite the same as your setup. I wonder if it's different due to California/US emissions requirements. The vacuum line from the top of the bypass valve solenoid doesn't go to the cobra, but rather to a nipple on a steel(?) pipe that's insanely difficult to get at - the nipple is just to the left of the ECU (looking from the front of the car) and under the short coolant hose that goes from the engine block to the "t" fitting that many of us replace with the metal one (or with your coolant hose). Any idea what's up with that?
The vac line from the bypass valve solenoid doesn't go to the cobra anyway - it goes to the bypass valve, so not sure what you mean there.
Maybe the vac line is part rubber and part steel pipe? Have you traced it round? Does it go to the bypass valve?
@@CycloneCyd sorry if my post is confusing. I’m referring to the small black box to the right of the ECU that has three vacuum hoses connected to it: left, right and top, and an electrical connector on the back. On mine, the top hose goes to a nipple on a silver metal pipe to the left of the ECU, under the coolant hose.
@@akahan1 I think you will find it's a part metal and part rubber pipe connection if you trace it round
@@CycloneCyd I think you're right. It's unfortunate that the junction between the rubber and metal portions is in a "you'd have to be a contortionist" spot.
@@akahan1 hence why I just put one run of hose in
do you know if there will be any duties to pay to have a delivery to the UK from Ali Express please
I really need some knowledge .. are the boost valve and control valve the same thing
I think that you may be referring to: 1. the wastegate actuator and it's control solenoid (valve) and 2. the bypass valve and it's control solenoid (valve).
They are two distinct parts of the turbo system with quite seperate and distinct functions.
The wastegate control solenoid operates the wastegate control actuator (vacuum operated) which in turn opens or closes the wastegate which in turn controls the amount of energy the turbo extracts from the hot exhaust gases.
The bypass valve is essentially a pressure relief valve. If the turbo is at full chat (pumping maximum air at max boost) and the throttle is closed by the driver there is a time lag (2-5 revs of the crank) before the turbo slows. In the meantime the turbo compressor is pumping air hard up against the closed throttle. The BPV lets some of this excess pressure out, so the engine is not overwhelmed by an excess of air when the throttle is opened again.
HTH
Thank you for the video, doing my air lines shortly. Can I use the existing clips or would I be best using cable ties like yourself?
Clips will cut into the silicone and break it apart. Use the zip ties
Will the links you provide to ask the hoses (including air intake etc.) Fit the 9-3 1.9 tid on a 56 plate?
The air intake and coolant hoses are specifically for the B207.
The vacuum hose should be suitable for the diesel.
The link for the Zobra pipe dosnt work. I think mine is leaking from there. I still have the OEM one from 2008 lol.
Someone else commented the same, but the links work fine for me when I click on them. Try this instead: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DkFVzTh let me know if it's okay your end.
@@CycloneCyd Worked perfectly, thx
Is 4mm enough for the whole process or do I need 5mm or bigger? Just wondering because I can only get 3mm, 4mm, 6mm and 8mm. 5mm is not available for me to get.
Use the link in the description to the ST Cool listing. 5mm is available there.
I ordered the new COBRA and adapter. But the adapter didn't fit into the extension from the COBRA and the supplied, metal pin fit the COBRA but ran right through the suggested adapter ID. So I drilled out the COBRA extension with a 4mm bit, only about 40% of the length. I inserted the adapter as far as possible into the drilled out portion of the extension, the pushed the pin through the adapter and all the way into the extension. Secured with 100mm ziptie. Put the hose over the remaining part of the adapter and another ziptie. NOTE that I used 5mm hoses for these connected to the wastegate valve and the originals all seemed bigger than 4mm. Anyone else notice this?
Did you have to pay for for taxes as on the website saying have to pay more what that mean
So the FPR is the only one that is 4mm? The rest is 5mm?
Not quite. Wastegate control solenoid is 4mm too.
@@CycloneCyd What about the 12 mm hose? The AliExpress store doesn’t seem to have it.
@@lspd5916 watch this space - we're working on it
I hope I’m not gaslighting myself here but - the sizes we took off around the wastegate solenoid were 5mm and the 4mm we tried as mentioned in the video are way to tight to get on. So we went with 5mm back there.
We bought from the link provided. Is this an oversight? Are we going mad 😮
@@sejn2587 The trouble is I've thrown my old vac hoses away now, so I can't double check. I defo fitted 4mm around the wastegate solenoid - they were a little tight but went on okay. I found 5mm to be a little slack. I did use a little WD to help them slide on.
I'll have another look at it in the next couple of weeks. If I found I was in error, I'll have to re-edit and republish the video (you can't edit published videos - I wish you could).
Thanks for the heads up
none of the links works.... can you update please?
(for the hoses)
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDXOVQn
www.buymeacoffee.com/CycloneCyd/e/52994
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DmKYh6J
All working fine for me
CYD on a completely different note I asked a question looking ur advice previously!
Could you possibly please 🙏 advise me on the correct LED DRL + amber indicator as in ur previous videos that would suit a saab 9-5 ng areo 2011. (Looking to remove my Amber cover on glass) Would really appreciate advice and would thank you again via PayPal. Thanks for your help in advance and keep up the good work helping keep SAABs on the road for 2023 . BTW Happy New year !
A HNY to you too. Is the standard bulb fitment a clear bulb (P21W) or an amber bulb (PY21W) - they have different fitment lugs)
@@CycloneCyd all I know is its "a regular 21w lamp. The format is Bay9s" does this info help???
@@owenmindwise yes, the info helps me, but not you! No-one makes a dual colour switchback bulb with a BAY9S base.
The only way I can see of achieving this would be to use the bulbs I link in my DRL video and convert the bulb holder inside the headlamp to a P21W type such as these s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDFsR4j.
Possible to do, but will test your fabrication skills
@@CycloneCyd Your a scholar and a gentleman.
Thank you
@@owenmindwise I would pick up a 2ndhand headlight unit and try out this (and any other desired mods) on that, rather than risking the cars lights.
Wouldn't it be simpler to change the rigid pipes and put silicone pipes in their place?
They are easier to work with.