This is very true. I remember taking MMA classes and when punches came into play, people that were good at BJJ froze up and could not protect themselves properly. The best form if BJJ I saw being taught was BJJ for MMA in which we hand MMA gloves on and were striking when going for submissions and avoiding submissions. This is my opinion simulates what would happen in a real fight.
Maybe slight striking simulation with minimum energy just to " remind" the person that certain positions or certain movements are not very good for SelfDefense / MMA
Had to get black belts in Kyokushin, Judo and BJJ …and compete, to figure it all out for myself! Now at 56 the key is: to forge the steel when you are young but learn the concepts and self defense for longevity and preservation as you age. OSU!
What an eye-opening video and it came in a perfect moment for me. I signed up for self-defense exclusively with no ambition to compete and during my first class, I got smashed so badly. It took me a week to recover. I am glad I found a certified school in my city that offers self-defense aspects of jiu-jitsu and can't wait to try them out!
I am 5 foot 2 and i feel this way about no gi. I need as much realistic gi training possible without the pressure of competition and it is refreshing that this channel and this subject matter exists. Thank you😁
@@Urizen61it depends on the climate you live in. Where I live, no gi is better because it is always warm. Where they live, people might wear heavy coats often. Gi training helps then.
8:25 students taught only by students.... yup, that is Gracie Barra. I visited Gracie Barra in Oceanside CA. The website presents the word champion Blackbelt but he is no where to be found. Only students smoking the newbies for 40 minutes doing exercises and no JJ.. this is a McDojo
@@ayurvology7537 so when the instructor is sick it helps to just waste student's time doing exercises instead of jj?? Here they also bring up the instructor being absent and leaving it up to students to teach... maybe they are just going the McDojo route.
Literally exact thing happened to Taekwondo back in the day. I learned Taekwondo as a kid in the eighties. Till this day, many instructors and I am sure many reading this don’t even know that the Taekwondo kicks today are designed for tournaments where no leg grabbing or punch to the face are allowed as opposed to the original kicks or at least the way I was taught. The kicks were executed in a way that took into account the possibility of your leg being grabbed or being counter punched in the face as you kicked. Therefore several of the kicks like roundhouse, front and side were very different.
@@scarred10 couldn't be a more false statement. The issue is rule sets. WTF is designed to comply with IOC rules. ITF tends to (I say tends to because American schools tend to train ITF style, with WTF mindset) adhere to actual fighting. I saw the difference after being stationed in Korea for two years, and studying there.
@@deangullberry5148 there are no IOC tkd rules the rules are WTF. As for ITF which I trained for 17 yrs,it has nothing to do with fighting or self defense despite its claims .
@@deangullberry5148 I trained all over Europe from 85 until 2002, in eastern europe the contact was harder,more like full contact at times but all ITF schools are very strict on following gen chois syllabus so there wont be anything practical involved,basically nonsense.
This is what happened to karate in the Japanese university competition system. All the in fighting clinch work that's demonstrated in kata was lost and replaced with long rang point fighting.
Great video! This is why I sought out an “old school” Jiu-Jitsu school. I always try to think about self defense when rolling. I’ve sadly blown out my lower back and I’m relegated to video watching. I’m looking forward to getting back to training.
Your lower back is probably flexion dominated. You need to do extension exercises like reverse hyperextensions to balance it out. And also general movements for posture like scapular retraction / depression and shoulder/hip external rotation. And neck , neck training is important
What is your take on 10th planet Jiu-Jitsu since it seems like Eddie Bravo wants a more applicable form of Jiu-Jitsu for MMA (at least from what I have gathered?)
Interesting discussion - I’ve been doing different martial arts since 1987, but I am just a 2 stripe blue belt in GJJ under a Royce Gracie black belt - I totally agree the art is martial, was meant for combat, and should be taught that way - however, I think that at least in part what we have today is due to the effort to spread Jiu Jitsu throughout the world - the majority of public may not have the interest, patience, or discipline to train in the old way - we put gloves on all the time, but many do not - I believe in the least sport schools should advertise themselves as teaching sport Jiu Jitsu, rather than the old school martial art.
Exactly! I've been very fortunate. I trained under Dan Anderson, from Anderson's Martial Arts, when he first opened and it was hardcore. Now things changed there. Then under Jorge Patino, "Macaco" but he now lives in Florida. Now under Rene Dreifuss, at Radical MMA. All realistic first, before sport
We get thought both. And sometimes I raise my hand and ask "How would this work in a real life situation"? and we go over it. We compete at least 4 times a year as a school. A-team Jujitsu - Westminster Checkmat
What is your opinion on Gracie University? I know that added Gracie combatives to address this issue. I am considering taking classes under a local branch
This situation has been getting more and more apparent and even more important to point out as time goes by. I have always taught full combat Judo and Ju Jitsu, never the "sport" version. As we all know, the reason for the "sport" version, is that it can be practiced with a lot less injuries and it's more "friendly" for the masses. Most people do not want to learn the combat style because it's harder to learn and you have to be more disciplined to learn to put "ALL" of the techniques together. Real Judo or Ju-Jitsu is combat style and doesn't need the designation of Combat or Sport version. My son competes as a professional MMA and he has a record of 1 loss and 5 wins. Because he was taught full Judo and Ju-Jitsu, he can strike, off balance, throw, take down and ground and pound. He even wins championships in boxing matches due his movement and striking capabilities.
Eddie Bravo deserves credit for that, and apparently Rorion and Rickson like the concept. Those events have also exposed some of the weaknesses of the strict, guard pulling sport style. Nothing like getting smacked in the mouth to expose black belts in sport style.
that's how we trained in the academy to prep for vale tudo. we still do it to a certain extent today, but that kind of training works best when the majority of the students are under 30.
So is Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu worth studying ? Is that the fake version? I was going to join one local to me but now hearing this I’ll go with my first option if so I wanted to join the roger Gracie Academy first but travel etc made me look at the Barra one
Excellent video! I wish every academy had a head instructor who shared the same philosophy and sentiments. Unfortunately this happens to really anything or activity that goes from being roughly sacred to becoming pop culture...The purity in practice of said activity gets lost usually in the wake of an ever growing desire for expediency or progressive financial gain. It’s no denying that the awesome benefits of jiujitsu were designed for everyone, but the guardians of the art form (originally the Gracie clan as one unified big family) I don’t think truly ever foresaw the damage it would do to JiuJitsu nor the dangers that await jiujitsu as a whole that would arise from their inner family feuds and ultimate divisions.
I just started bjj. My main interest is in self-defence. It is very very difficult to find an academy that teaches the martial version of the art. Most jiu-jitsu schools focus on the sports aspect. I did eventually find one, but it took some doing!
Even though I practice a different system of Ju-Jitsu (Atemi Ryu Ju-Jitsu) I have seen a vast difference between BJJ and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Most BJJ schools are missing a lot of the self defense essences that is Jiu Jitsu... a lot (but not all) seem to only know how to shoot in for a double leg take down, with zero or limited knowledge of nage waza. Same applies to taking on a good stand up striker. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu practitioners on the other hand are well versed in this and all self defense.
@@scarred10 Not really, Gracie Jiu Jitsu has very good self defense, where some BJJ schools don't give it much importance, focusing on rolling. BJJ seems to now be a generic term covering many types of schools derived from the same origins. Some only do grappling for competition, some have very good self defense training. Go to 3 different non affiliated BJJ schools and chances are they have different curriculums. Saying BJJ now is akin to saying Karate... they may have the same lineage, but different goals and methods.
I live in a small community and have joined a bjj club here. It definitely falls into the sport jiu-jitsu side of this discussion. I have had discussion with another member who like myself found the self defence instruction lacking. Without access to any other schools I am looking for options to supplement the training I am receiving. Is Gracie University's " Gracie Combatives " worth checking out? Or does anyone have any other online resource suggestions.
Sport competition is the natural evolution of all martial arts. As societies become more and more safer and physical confrontation less and less common than in ancient times, it is just inevitable that we channel these amazing disciplines into more "friendly" environments such as demonstrations and sports events. As opposed to what those old school Masters say I believe that an average BJJ student that is only familiar with the competition aspect of the Art will still have a considerable advantage over the regular Joe on the street, should a physical confrontation break up.
Its funny when I revisit videos how often I'm reminded of my own views and journey professor. Being a Vunak and Inosanto student/full instructor myself (so you know through Vunak alone how important Jiu-Jitsu is to us in this particular lineage)... I find myself at the opposite end of this struggle. I'm also a prior LEO and current LEO DTAC and firearms instructor... I've used a ton of gracie self defense techniques and tactics throughout my career. They've literally saved my life! BUT I've been a blue belt for the last 19 years (I'm not kidding, since 2004) haha! Every time I walk into most gyms here in colorado I can't really roll the way these sport guys do... and I get odd looks... but trust me I know how to fight... but I'm stuck in this combatives place not really able to move up in most bjj schools in my area. At least thats how it truly feels.
@KamaJiuJitsu I would absolutely love the chance to train with Professor Gabrielson... plus we'd trade Vunak stories haha. Unfortunately he's in Colorado Springs and that's a bit of a trek for me... I'm closer to Boulder than anything, with springs being waaaaay south. I'll try and make it down to his gym sometime soon though... he's a legend and I know Sifu Vunak always spoke highly of him back in the Ol' torrance gracie garage days.
@KamaJiuJitsu absolutely! But my career and four kiddos keep me locked in at times haha. I'll get down there soon for sure. It's just here in the north Colorado area there are only sport oriented gyms :/ good gyms mind you for sure! But definitely competition minded gyms.
I agree with what reylson is saying. It almost sounds like he doesn’t believe that sport BJJ should exist. Either it’s a fighting art or it isn’t. Rolling from the knees without strikes is more of a drill than learning to fight. A drill has been turned into a sport and people think they will magically be able to defend punches even though they never train against them. They think they will magically be able to do takedowns even though they never start from the feet. This reality vastly narrows the body of knowledge that is jiujitsu. The number of moves greatly decreases but the tiny variations greatly increase. Case in point as a black belt I recently started training mma rounds. I do it regularly after class and it’s a difficult transition. You get so much more tired and the transition from standing to ground requires different timing. The people that think it’s an easy bridge are kidding themselves. You have to put in all of the variables or you will get tired really fast. Only by putting yourself in such environments over and over again will you learn to relax and conserve energy.
I agree on the self defence part - it was one of the main reasons I've moved to more looking at catch wrestling. I asked a top professor in Australia who has the blessings of the top Gracies about being underneath in half guard for self defence one time in class...he thought it was fine. I'm like have you seen what Couture, and good strong wrestlers do in topside half guard...they lock you down with their legs and start smashing your face in. I'd rather NOT be in that position thanks. The lack of proper self defense technique is abysmal, and the way it's practiced is even worse. I honestly think atm Catch Wrestling does it better (atleast they practice a full range of positions and techniques). I'd rather take a blue or purple belt that was an excellent teacher (structure class well, lots of set position sparring, different concepts intertwined) than a medicore black belt teacher that might be awesome at competition but is trash at actual teaching styles. You don't need the belt to be a great teacher - many MMA coaches have PROVEN this. I'd argue that the way we are given black belts in BJJ doesn't teach you how to be an effective teacher at all, because whatever it is your master teaches you in how to teach is all you know.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Catch doesn't teach guard passing, guard retention , sweeps or any guard besides turtle. Gi Sport BJJ doesn't teach takedowns, pinning, standing up or leglockz
In the purest form of Catch Wrestling they count pins as wins so no one develops any guard game, because if they are taken down into a guard position they count it as a pin. Also if no one in the gym has a great guard it means you can't get a high level of submission defense or passing.
Suno Invicta wrong.they call guard a leg scissor position. They do smash, pass (often through forcing chains of attack and responses) and submit from all positions. most dominate pins come from side control. They do elbows and strikes historically (Billy Robinson talked about this in a seminar). They do a lot of standup, sweeps and get ups when underneath, and yes they defend against chokes because all submissions are allowed so going to turtle isn’t great given the proclivity of people trying to actively take your back (other grappling styles with with no submissions will do this though). Leg locks, yes that is core - in fact tons more submissions are allowed that still BJJ wouldn’t practice (such as neck cranks). A pin forces movement instead of waiting for an opportunity. it’s showing that you are in danger in a self defense situation where being on bottom could Mean death if they have friends coming. you want to be on top and know how to use technique to get to top or standing. Number 1 self defense position on the ground is knee on belly so you can look around, submit, strike or disengage if needed. From a self defense perspective it covers a far greater range of effective self defense scenarios built into its day in day out rules than what I’ve seen in BJJ schools - and I love BJJ. It has all the timing, technique and concepts as these are universal.
100% agree. I suppose there is a place for "sport BJJ" and I have NO problem with the practice but Reylson hit the nail on the head when he talked about the DECEPTION that MANY, not ALL, but MANY "sport/tournament schools" engage in. They will tell you to your face that they are "self-defense based", teach "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu", etc., and to the casual or uninitiated, it's all Jiu-Jitsu. They'll get you to sign the contract, and then your stuck with 'BSJJ'-"BullSh*tJiuJitsu". It gets my dander up as over the course of my Jiu-Jitsu journey I've encountered more than a few who were mislead-AND the MOST disheartening thing, they STOPPED Jiu-Jitsu altogether and in their minds ALL Jiu-Jitsu schools are a scam. I'm so glad I found Gracie Unitversity and what I call "legit Jiu-Jitsu", because it's based on self-defense FIRST and ALWAYS. Great vid, Ryan!
Conceptually on the reason for existence and the end goal (self-defense), absolutely. As far as the technical concepts, philosophies, and execution, I’d say there’s about 75%-85% overlap. The difference, lies in GM Rickson’s “Invisible Jiu-Jitsu” concepts, which we believe are truly “next level,” having learned both sides of the coin.
I cannot disagree with any of your points in this video I do feel there is a place for sports jiujitsu separate from traditional Gracie jiu-jitsu. I myself started Bjj solely for the sport side because my wrestling career was over. I very much wanted to fill that gap. Through hard work I did earn my black belt in “sport” bjj, but a few years later it was painfully clear how little I knew about self defense side. I did overtime sharpen those skills.I do feel that there is a large gap between sports jiu-jitsu and traditional Gracie jiu-jitsu. Hopefully in time the two sides will reconnect for more complete martial art.
Exact reason I stopped training at the school I was at. Primarily a competition setting. Had zero.....zero interest in that. Want self defense and learn how to not get my ass kicked. We did do SOME self defense. But not enough for me to stick around. Suck because I still want to train and the people there were awesome. Did feel a little clickish though because lots of folks competed and I didnt want to.😔
Beautiful break down of the current status of martial arts and the greed and ego behind it, it truely is being tainted with lies by a lot of schools about honor, truth and spirituality and the watering down of self defence and competition focus.
Reylson can hardly speak English so the message comes across as pure nonsense, people dont want to learn his bjj kata,if self defense is your goal, you wont get better than Gracie university, far better than what their father or grandfather taught.Why does reylson think hes unheard of compared to others in the family.
Well this revelation is slightly troubling... Should I have taken hokutoryu jiu jitsu first instead of bjj if the goal is self defence? Or does havin both have some fundamental issues when it deals with self defence? Also (if I have enough energy left) does adding some kickboxing into mix right from the start (never havin done anything before my bjj) only hurt my progress? As it stands after the That-What-Shall-Not-Be-Said is over, I could take up to six hours/week of training of those three combined. A lot of questions, but as a newbie tryin to figure out the correct training to have...
Most MMA fighters come from "sport" bjj schools--and its not as though gjj mma fighters have a statistically higher better chance at being successful. Is there a way to test all these assertions? Perhaps have a sport bjj vs gjj fight eachother?
They use jiu jitsu for the ground aspects of it and bridge the skill gap with other disciplines. Also the MMA jiu jitsu is a lot closer to gjj than bjj. The thing is, once someone knows great bjj it doesn't take long to incorporate self defense principles (principles that are used in MMA).
@John Doe Notice I only asked a very simple question: Is there a way to test all these assertions? You said nothing. To be clear, I'm not saying 'MMA' is a litmus test. I was, albeit implicitly, saying 'MMA' is the closest thing we have to actual self-defense scenarios or street fights which is why i brought it up Unless you have a catalogue of street fights where 50% are BJJ and 50% are GJJ folks against similar opponents, and theres a significant difference in outcome; I think this is the sort of experiments needed to justify your assertions--until then, the best we have is 'MMA' in my opinion This is what I meant--I'm not confused with reality or have a sportive mindset. I'm a BJJ practitioner with formal education in Maths and Philosophy. I know when conclusions dont follow from their premises (or when someone is making assertions w no justification) and simply ask for real evidence--always being respectful and without claiming others having a particular 'mindset' or being 'confused'. Again, Is there a way to test all these assertions you are making?
@John Doe I dont understand your point. I made no assunptions--im claiming the video does, and for there to be real evidence for it. I proposed an experiment to give those assertions validity (in the video), but such evidence doesnt actually exist. All we have is 'MMA' as the best testing ground.
@John Doe I agree there are rules in MMA, as w any sport. I agree "vale tudo" translating to "anything goes" is closer to a street fight than MMA. How many Vale Tudo matches are there today? How many GJJ and BJJ representatives do they have? Whatre the outcomes? Can you say one out performs the other?
Yeah, I'm struggling to find an instructor/gym who/which teaches _martial_ Jiu-Jitsu (GJJ) in my area. I think many of them are ultimately just former wrestlers (very popular in Western PA) who want to have a sport to continue in and a way to make a living. No doubt they can beat me up, but that's beside the point.
If you go to a school and they are never talking about distance management, punch protection, they talk about how to collect points etc You are at a sport bjj school.
The online curriculum is exactly the same as it is in the Academy. The grading is slightly different though. You achieve an “online” certification. Which can be transferred to a “true” grading by making the journey to a CTC and undertaking a review/test..
@@hasanc1526 - Didn't they address that and change the belt for their combatives course? I've watched some of their Gracie Academy videos. They are really well made. I don't think their online academy is a scam, especially if they corrected the belt issue. Honestly? I think the Gracie Academy is a great place for a jiu-jitsu practitioner to supplement their learning, especially as you can buy individual techniques for quite a reasonable price. And yes, you could probably find those same techniques on RUclips, but I doubt they would be as fully fleshed out as what I've seen from the GA videos I've watched.
I don't really have a dog in this fight but I think that any jiu-jitsu practitioner (martial or sportive) is going to have an advantage over someone who doesn't practice jiu-jitsu (martial or sportive). Having said that, I do find it ironic to say sport jiu-jitsu is mutilated if the person making the accusation is still training their students while wearing a gi. I understand that jackets can sometimes replicate a gi during a fight, but if one truly wants jiu-jitsu to be martial, I would think the majority of their training should be no-gi.
@John Doe - I have to disagree John. I have been in ZERO street fights, but the Gi doesn't simulate clothing. In normal clothing, you're not going to do cross collar chokes/loop chokes/anything that requires you to pull your opponent's Gi out and use it any which way, or use the sleeve/collar/belt to help set up a sweep etc. I promise that I am not trying to be a jerk or argumentative, but there is no article of normal street clothing, short of a jacket, that will simulate a Gi. Take away the Gi and we are left with arm bars, kimuras. Americana's, leg locks, wrist locks, rear naked chokes, punch chokes, etc. No-Gi stuff. If a gym is training you in a Gi and says it is a self-defense jiu-jitsu school, I have to call shenanigans. Having said that, I only train in Gi and my gym emphasizes IBJJF competitions, but I don't think the curriculum is particularly sport oriented. And having said that, if push comes to shove, I will catch the odd yahoo on the street in an armbar/triangle choke/rear naked choke if need be. I think so, but hope I never have to find out. Having to roll against all shapes, sizes, strengths and abilities doesn't hurt. I'm really not afraid to roll with anybody, although I realize that size/strength does matter and I might still end up being whupped.
@John Doe - That's fine, but could you elaborate? I train exclusively in a Gi, but I don't see where I will be doing any collar chokes, or using the sleeves to for grips when my opponent is wearing a short sleeve t-shirt. I don't mind being wrong, that's one of the best ways to learn, but you have to provide me with more than a brush off for not getting into street fights. How does training in a Gi make a person a better fighter on the street than say a 10th planet guy? Say against someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt, which is common enough, or shorts and a t-shirt. I also have to walk back what I said about a gym not being a self-defense jiu-jitsu school if they train in a Gi. That's not entirely accurate, as they can very well be self-defense oriented, but if they are teaching techniques based on the use of a gi collar, then they are sort of wasting a student's time with those techniques from a self-defense perspective.
hi, Gary, Ryan here. i was just reading your guys' exchange, which i really like. here in Dallas today this moment, it's 43 degrees F, and currently sitting in starbucks reading your collective comments/debate, i am wearing a Carhartt canvas jacket and jeans. that's pretty much the same as wearing a gi in class, don't you think? and i pretty much wear something exactly like this anytime the weather is 60 and below.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Hi Professor Ryan! Thank you for commenting on my thread. Yes, definitely, anytime a person has a light/heavy jacket on, it makes for a good simulation of the gi.
@John Doe Exactly! I have been in many fights due to the hotheaded egos of course, and when you're unwilling to fight back, they simply go crazy it seems and attack like mad men. When these, and most fights in my opinion, when these occur, the guy almost always goes for the tackle and then tries to pin. The first thing to do seems to be to "grab" a belt loop or lower shirt area and roll out to side, and either strike or push off. I always pushed off. Then when they try to throw a punch, again you can "grab" the shirt and throw, grab the arm and throw, or simply step aside and watch them eat dirt; the latter was always my personal favorite. By the time they're done wearing themselves out, you simply ask if it's your turn, or walk away and wait for them to force you to actually use force. The point here. The GI helps real world training in many ways. It also protects the limbs from burns and bruises. I would bet if this guy faced a real hardcore brawler, he would probably be beat within the first couple of seconds trying to pull some of this watered down crap. However, if calm and skilled enough, I pray I'm wrong. What people really seem to miss is the point that in a real fight, if you lose your cool, you already lost; and if you maintain your cool, but fail to act quickly and effectively, again you lost. Real fights suck! The guy is literally trying to kill you. It's nothing like the push and shove, scratch and roll, punch and punch back crap we see on tv. Nuff said.
Absolutely interesting subject and video!!!! One of the very best videos from Kama Jiu-Jitsu I've seen!! In my opinion the only negative point to all of this perhaps is the use of word "Mutilated", which may be somewhat harsh and insulting to some readers. That said, the content is very provocative and well stated!! Great job bringing this subject up for discussion!!! Thanks you for this presentation...
I guess I fall into it's all jiu jitsu... Where I train we do everything, we have people who compete, we have people who just come roll and we have people who wanna train self defense. My Instructor and a lot of the guys that train with us are cops so they teach a lot realistic situations but for me personally I would love to learn it all so I can teach and keep pushing the art forward! Oss 🤙🏿
Interested to hear your opinions on the Danaher guys? They’re definitely sport oriented but have a good wrestling base. Do you think their style would hold up on the streets?
Most untrained people have no takedown or takedown defense. If you can teach students how to do a single leg and control distance, which is done through standup sparring, I’d say they would be successful at defending themselves.
Why do we hear that belt advancements are being made faster to students who compete in sports JJ - more so than the students who don’t compete in the sport? Do you guys see this as being true?
"Sport Jiu Jitsu" currently ruins competitions, leaving self-defence jiu jitsu practitioners unable to compete because there are two choices: 1. We make the rules of competition more and more like a real fight and then BJJ becomes MMA 2. BJJ has rules that limit the damage you take (i.e. no kicks and punches) and then sport schools exploit the gaps with bullshit like berimbolos and butt scooting Unless competition organisers are constantly updating rules to prevent #2, then competitions do and will cause a perversion of BJJ. It's actually easily fixed, instead of only banning strikes - you need to ban moves that leave you overly exposed to strikes.
prior to 1997, the rule set in jiu-jitsu tournaments were adequate. but once they prohibited slamming someone to break closed guard, break collar chokes, and break triangles, it all started to go downhill. then pretty much everything became illegal after that, creating the ruleset that "evolved" jiu-jitsu into today's BJJ.
@@KamaJiuJitsu as a newcomer, the rules of BJJ seem designed to make guard pulling and butt scooting effective strategies. I do understand why we don't strike in BJJ and on balance, i like it because that enables me to do BJJ long after people stop doing MMA. But 'no slams' is a piss-take, i don't think you should be allowed to spike people on their head, but a regular slam should be fine. I literally gave and received them on day 1 of my MMA training and never had an injury or problem.
@@pcprinciple3774 Anything that is legal in Judo or Freestyle/Greco should be legal in BJJ. Not allowing hard takedowns and throws, or slamming to get out of holds, leads to a style that revolves around ridiculous developments like guard pulling and berimbolos. Funky guard playing is fun to train, but has no practical application in real life. That's the bottom line.
Hey Ryan, I understand you are more on the self defense side of Jiu-jitsu but also have students who compete in sport. I was wondering if subscribers to your channel and/or to your Patreon may submit their own tournament videos and you can critique, rate their tournament Jiu-jitsu and state how it is in your opinion. Thanks. Also do you have a link to Reylson Gracie's post?
I want to start Jiu-Jitsu. How can i tell the sport academies from the combat/self defense academies?? I live in the Northern California Bay Area (Dublin). Can you please recommend a School for me to check out??
i can't recommend any schools in your area, since i haven't been there in years. i would just go and visit the ones near you and take a class. if they talk a lot of "points," a technique being "legal/illegal," and "the next competition is..." then you might be at a primarily sport school.
Gracie Barra? I'm looking for real feedback on gracie barra. I'm 43 and have been looking to start my journey in this art. But i only have a gracie barra close to me. What is your opinion on GB? Looking for true self defense and not the watered down art. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks I
@@KamaJiuJitsu Thanks for the time to reply. Much respect I live in Kissimmee Fl. Any suggestions on finding the best option? It seems like GB is everywhere and we have very few options here. I'm kinda lost. Any kind of help would be great.
If that's all you got Greg, I say go for it. Jiu-jitsu, sportive or otherwise, is awesome! I do think Gracie Barra is very sportive and I did win the Seattle Open against a younger Gracie Barra competitor (I'm 50 but, as a white belt, have to compete in Masters 3, instead of Masters 5), and a GB student, who came to our school after his school closed, gave me my first triangle choke, and head and arm choke. Having said that, both of those guys are awesome in my opinion and again, if that's all you've got, you have to work with what you've got until you have other options. Good luck man!
Crazy my. 4 year old gets one on teaching with black and brown belts at a sport school in temecula they teach her headlock escapes double leg takedowns trips defense against punches etc..
@@berningsandwiches2662 Renzo's is one of the best in the world, but folks I know that train there are not learning the old school combative techniques. They still love it, though.
@@cdcaleo true, they're not learning the old school, self defense focused bjj. You'd have a difficult time making the case it doesn't work though. Gary Tonon comes from Renzos and he's destroying it in One. Kron Gracie learned the old school techniques directly from Rickson and from what I can see his striking needs to be updated. No disrespect intended, I'm still a huge fan of them both.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Kron beating Gary grappling doesn't surprise me at all. I just think Gary would have the edge in MMA. Once again much respect. I love your channel and what you do.
We Judoka's have seen the same thing. "Olympic Judo" ... a castrated "demo" form of Judo I should not spell with a capital J. If you look back at the old footage of Mifune sensei or Jigoro Kano himself, that is Judo. I want My Judo to be the technics these man teacheth there students. Do not let this happen to BJJ, to sanction and allow a sporterized form of the true art carry the same name. It is an insult.
Master Reylson and the like would do a great service to point out by name and organizations that only teach 20%. So that the Customer/Jiu Jitsu practitioner's can make a better educated decision. There is no shame calling them out.
I just started and I have no idea if what im practicing is martial. I train at mizu jiu-jitsu in MTL. Any thoughts if this shcool is legit? If not any suggestions in MTL?
If you like the school and the instructor is from a credible lineage(doesn't have to be "pure", just credible) then just keep going and don't worry about it.
The rest of the 80% that he is claiming is bad kicking and punching. You can say the same about judo and sambo there is sport and combat versions. If you want standing self defense cross train in a stand up style like karate teakwondo muy tai ex.
Have you, Dave Kama or Rickson Gracie heard any of the recent interviews with Robert Drysdale and his book and maybe one day/coming soon documentary on the origins of jiu-jitsu in Brazil? Certain people agree with the information that he's put out, while others such as Fabio Gurgel that weren't too happy.
Hi Ryan, I'm someone who is planning to start BJJ/GJJ as soon as the restrictions on group activities are lifted in my country. I'm surprised to infer from Reylson Gracie's comments that sports oriented BJJ has little to no stand up game, is that a correct understanding? If so I'm would have to be very careful about which school or gym to choose to join, having no stand up game seems very lacking for an effective martial art.
I would argue Kama JJ is a mutilation as well. If you say it's self defense jiu jitsu, your students should be actively proving it in MMA. Just as the Gracies used to do. This is my main issue with schools claiming to be "self defense" oriented. And I meant with with full respect.
wtf? Self defense is mma now? In what world is a trained combat mma athlete the common person walking around in public? If you get attacked in public it most likely won't be from a trained mma athlete but from a criminal with a rap sheet.
Competition is one of the best ways to actually test your skills in a stressful situation. So I think people should be encouraged to compete, rather than the opposite. I don't really see a big problem in training both in "sports" BJJ and MMA at the same time. They supplement each other very well. So, is it really such a big loss if most BJJ gyms don't teach more of the (supposedly, as these things are honestly difficult to test and prove) street-viable techniques? I'm also convinced that sparring sports BJJ at 100% prepares you better for real life situations than *only* sparring with strikes at half tempo would prepare you. Combining both is even better tho. Either way, to my ear, Reylson Gracie comes off sounding a bit bitter with his text, which, I think, is highly unnecessary.
You see, that'd be right... until you see the ruleset in competitive BJJ, which is absolutely horrible, because it discourages or hides moves that are really useful for self defense aspect being taught. This is why, in a way, boxing becomes a better combat sport for self defense, or Muay Thai, or Sanda, simply because of their ruleset as it simulates more of an actual fight. BJJ's ruleset has alot of pauses where you can't just transition from one move to another instantaneously.
@@petercoderch589 Put a competitive BJJ blue belt into a ring with a guy with no training. The blue belt wins 99% of time. Competition is the closest you can get in stress levels to a fight or a self defense situation. Someone who's good at sports BJJ is going to be vastly superior in a no rules fight compared to someone who has no training.
@@tzaeru Bjj is very great for ground fight. But as for standing is terrible and full of holes. And fights always strart standing. Moreover it teaches you some very bad habits even at ground, like pulling guard which is DANGEROUS and absurd in a real situation. Sport bjj is not enough for self defence. MMA is much more useful. I think that the rules of sport bjj have ruined the bjj.
Agree, we trained and sparred in the parking lot the other week. Jiu Jitsu needs to work in between cars, up against a wall, and against opponents with weapons (acknowledging we're better off with a weapon at that point)
Hmmmm. Think I may be changing Jiu Jitsu schools in the future. My previous class, the coach who is a purple belt just blatantly said, “I’m sure y’all don’t want to know the self defense part” then went into teaching what was an arm bar(while using your own gi) and arm triangle choke from side mount? Well as a white belt, I’m thinking don’t I need to learn how to get to side mount/control first? I was a little disappointed that I didn’t learn self defense that day. My only concern now if I change schools (there’s only a handful here) is what will the instructor show me on my first day? I’d be more than happy just learning the very basics, I’d rather learn to escape positions and submissions. Other places I have been, the instructor was showing “lasso guard” on my first day. I never went back to that place. Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I want to maximize my mat time learning the most efficient basic techniques that apply to street and competition (If I decide to compete).
first day o old school jiu jitsu: learn how to make a strong base, and get yourself exposed to some real life street fight positions in a controlled motion, just so you can see where you are going to get once you get great training. there’s no need for learning submission scalped and things like that, then you should probably understand how to defend from a punch, how to close the distance after defending from the punch. then after you know that, understand how to fall into the ground, then after defending from a punch, a basic way to get someone down (no gi grips) and not get kicked in the head after the person is down. then the other way around, how to defend myself after I am taken down. only then I would start thinking of submissions, you have increased the chances of that first day guy not getting beat up in a street fight the next day!
I follow your videos and recall one video you did outside talking about how you tried some of the sport aspect but said you dedicated yourself to the self defense. In the NW, I am trying to find a true self defense school but when I send emails, messages, etc. on self defense, I get absolutely no reply. There are Gracie Jiu Jitsu affiliated schools (Certified Training Centers) but run by non-black belts. There is a machado school but feel it’s more sport. Need assistance.
Get some mats, find a buddy, and do these lessons. www.kamajiujitsu.com/memberships/ Or, look through our catalog of videos on YT. I go over how to find the right academy for you on several of them.
Starting from zero a sport JJ school still begins with *some* useful foundational skills and principles. Unfortunately most of the rolling experience (my observations and experience) starts crouched on the ground without much context about how to get there in an advantageous position (takedowns while maintaining posture and base) or any stand-up skills about avoiding fighting and going to the ground in the first place. The beginning of self defense training is awareness, avoidance, and attitude before any fighting techniques.
I think they mostly do that due to space issues and safety to be honest. At my school they will focus several weeks each year on takedown/grip fighting classes and have even brought in Judo instructors for takedown seminars. But then, my instructor started off in Judo and doesn't like for his students to pull guard. Having said that, regardless of how the fight got to the ground, the guy will either be in your guard or you will be in theirs, or both of you will be fighting for advantage, so it makes sense to focus on what happens after you are already on the ground. In my opinion anyway.
Reylson Gracie sent a public Facebook message to my professor asking him when he was going to start teaching martial Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. In my opinion that's disrespectful. My professor handled it well saying he teaches it everyday. The school I attend is a mix between sport and self defense (Royler affiliate).
Royler is a great competitor and legend in the art. IDK you, your teacher or the school you teach, but I'm sure you're receiving top notch instruction.
This reminds me of a religious schism: "Your religion is fake, I am the truth, the light, and the way." "Reject false idols." Plot twist: all religions are fundamentally about power (and money).
I like what u said. Bjj can b performed and done in many different ways, there is not just one way to teach it. Some people believe there is only one way to teach it and u r not allowed to add to it to make it better. Some people are still operating on windows 95 and need to be on windows 10 ??
Raymond Ramallo Windows 10 had so many flaws because the operating system was not properly vetted. In fact, many have crashed and went back to the older versions. Your point just fell on it's own face and proved the exact flaws this "mutilated" system has. It was never properly vetted or labeled. Nuff said!
Disagree, I've trained in a sport BJJ school and currently train under a Rickson Gracie black belt. We train in the parking lot sometimes, with training knives, in enclosed spaces like our changing room. Jiu jitsu needs to work in real life, not just on a squishy mat.
many ways to "teach." but at the end of the day, all students SHOULD know all the same things to start. anything else they add to that after learning the common concepts is icing on the cake.
So does Allan Goes at his school. You get stripes on your white belt as you learn self defense techniques like avoiding punches, closing the distance, and standing choke escapes in addition to the basics of ground work and blocking punches on the ground. I believe Reylson got his black belt from his father Carlos just like Carlson did so he wouldn't be from Carlson's line.
BJJ as self defence worked fine 30 years ago when noone knew about it . Not so much these days. Gracies didnt change with time and now they are left behind ...
@John Doe Really? You will bring up superfights? Also he did not he has silvers and bronze as much as gold . Looks to me you talk without even knowing that mans record. Once more for ppl not paying attention: sport BJJ is Gracie idea. They are just pissed that people found better ways to fight it ( which is normal when so many people do it) amd they can't keep special techniques just for themselfs. We all heard back in the day that they would not teach all so they can keep some for themselfs . All respect to them for bringing to the point where others could carry on but they let time pass them by. If they didnt make it all about the money maybe they would keep the respect for longer ...
@John Doe i understand. Why my obsession? You the one that brought it up. I just pointed out how wrong u are . If u have your own view of what a win is , or what requirements a win needs you can claim whatever . Exp: i went into a tournament lost but i was never submitted and now im the best in the world cos sweeps are for lady boys and i do not count those . Who cares what channel this is ,, there is a question posed in this video and that is what we are discussing. IBJJF is gracies association. Their idea to start and still lead by some of them . They started whole sport aspect of it . That is why i think it is hypocrisy to talk about bad changes in BJJ . I think it hurts that these days their only relevance is as historical figures . I think they should be feel pride about what they started not trying to wrestle it back so they feel most ( most respect) important again ...
@John Doe OK . First i want to thank you cos talking to me did crystallize why i train BJJ . It is for sport reasons . I did put all gracies in one corner but that was unconscious cos i only know of maybe 20 so easy to forget it is a lot of different clans by now. I do have 2 problems with whole situation that made me start this conversation. First is money aspect. Since the start in Brazil to here where i live on other side of planet from Brazil and USA is - you need to pay to play and pay for every aspect directly from the team . Second is all this nostalgic crap about what we had was pure and that makes it beautiful , all this new things just ruin it. People can swear on self defense all they want but closing yourself off from progress is just what made a martial arts a joke by the end of 20 century. I get it that you like it but you should not be that confident in learning menaging distance from Gracies . Not today , not anymore . Im sure in RL we have more things in common then not but drawing lines is not helping anyone . The moment Gracie bjj pulls away from sport bjj completely is the moment GBJJ dies .
@John Doe kk , ill answer easiest first. 😁 . What you call sport BJJ is not bjj anymore i agree . I think better name for it is Grapling , gi or nogi . It evolved past GBJJ and yes evolved. You said it yourself : Gracie bjj is basicly white belt technique perfected . I cant help you if u dont see the beauty in exp. just a million options of worm guard or heel hooks . G where sure they perfected what they had so they stayed there , you could walk in their garage 30 years ago and you could not show them anything new . Reason why we have all those rules is so people can go to tournaments every month not because we need them so we are capable of performing what we do . Give me one example of where it is better to know GBJJ then MMA . Please, ill wait ...
@John Doe IBJJF is just one small thing of what im arguing for . What about hundreds of other gi and no gi federations? Among our sport folk IBJJF is considered a entry lvl tournament, famous for mostly how much money they charge you to be a part of it. So you to judge all based on IBJJF seems like strawman thingy...
I think In judo is worse judo used to have leg locks but they were banned judo used to have leg grabs but they were forbidden and most schools didn't practice them anymore judo used to be a lot better than it is today hope it doesn't happen in that way to bjj.
Very true. I am glad my first experience was GJJ. Now, after 10 years, I relocated to a different geographic location. Well, all schools in my area are sport oriented: thus far, I haven't seen headlock escapes taught, no knife, club, and punch defenses. When I mount, even high level purple belts, they push from the bottom and muscle their way out! I am using this as an opportunity to make my GJJ work against competition people and muscle heads.
@@KamaJiuJitsu ahh ok hip thrust...can't believe purple belts did it wrong. Thanks karma JJ 👌🏽. Back in 1988 in 3rd grade I was fighting a bully, I was doing well till we grappled n I got full mounted. He was punching me n I was going crazy hips n all breaking some of his balance till his punk friend put his knees on my biceps. It was over then...everyone just watched n after he let me go I was like come on let's fight toe to toe but he pulled back. Next day his daddy picked him up from school ..smh
Everything with the word "sport" and "Olympic" shouldn't be considered as self defense. However, I hate when people hate the sport aspect. Taekwondo for example. Many people hate Olympic tkd and point it as the culprit for ruining tkd. The rules and bad coaches ruined tkd, but the athletic/sport aspect cannot ruin a martial art. I have done Olympic sparring most of my life and when I was introduced to bjj I already had an athletic background to pick it up. Same with the other Olympic sparring practitioners who tried bjj. I am sure a sport bjj practitioner can adapt to a more self defense bjj and mma. Leave the sport for people who don't want to go pro or join the army 😂
Originally, I thought the Gracies mocked the the master/grandmaster terms. Now they all are grandmasters. As for reylsons comment....? Who cares that some like to practice sport? Maybe those people don t care about the 'battlefield.' At the end of the day....old style jiu jujitsu is not preparation for combat. At the end of the day it's all sweaty men wrestling.
First, I have tons of respect for all of the Jiu Jitsu pioneers and feel greatful for their shared knowledge. I have a great love for the Helio style I started under, and strongly believe that the original "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" is more than sufficient as a "sport" as well as THE individual martial art form. That said, there is a feeling that many of those pioneers believe that the ART has no room for growth beyond Carlos and Helio teachings. Rolls inclusion of cross training is the original growth beyond his teaching. Today, I believe that some of the "NEW" or "MANGLED" JJ are relevant in both art and sport. There are pleanty of venues that could host the original UFC format if a "challenge" match would like to be offered, and I and everyone else in combat sports would watch it via the streaming/PPV outlet of the promoters choice. Proper fundamentals will always be the gold standard of Jiu Jitsu reguardless of application, but growth of both sport or techniques is not the mangling of the art.
I'm sure that Garry Tonon, Danaher, or the Ryan's could change someone's mind, John Doe. I don't think imanari rolls is ideal for fights but there is a video of a kid catching a heel hook in self defense. If GJJ keeps the mindset of Helio only it will be left behind. Sport JJ is a fun test. Street fights are for thugs. If you can do it on the street, it will work on the mat, which is basically what I said in my opening statement. To think it is "complete" is silly, and ignoring other techniques due to ego leads to a less effective art.
@John Doe It applies to your comments of it being self defense, in which case it shouldn't matter if he was on all the steroids and had a bat. I don't take it personal. I take it logical. As in, Ryan's style works. If someone from Torrance could beat him, they would. They can't. Aside from the street all the sons of Helio competed. They loved singing of their records. Then others started winning, and amazingly competition wasn't part of the art anymore. Again, a simple challenge to whom I think is the best current grappler in the world would settle this. I could type that a 4th time. You could argue that he uses drugs. You could then contradict yourself by saying it's a martial art and self defense based in which drug use and size wouldn't matter. The funny thing is, I'm not even a leg lock guy. I just see it's effectiveness, and people who sound like old men telling stories of "back in my day..." don't seem to be open minded. It's been fun disagreeing.
@John Doe If it's a self defense martial art, than the opponents use of PED have no matter. You want to separate it from sport, and then turn to competitive rule set to sway the idea of a Ryan match. NoGi wasn't unrealistic when Rickson faught Zulu. Or the fight on the beach. Or in Japan. Again, not upset. Not defensive. Just an opinion. Just like you having yours.
@John Doe Apologies, he faught Zulu without a gi. It was shorter to write NoGi. I used it as an example of how the Gracies had no issues with rule sets which you say they are so against. The beach is another exaple of what you called unrealistic Gi-less combat. With Zulu and Japan, again you bring up rule set which makes it sound like you are for rules, but that contradicts your argument that it's a martial art not a sport. Again....... 4th through 50th time..... Someone could issue a challenge and settle it. With or with out rules of their choosing. If it's a martial art..... and a martial artist issues a challenge to a sport based Ryan..... and if the superiority of the ART trumps the "athleticism" of his sport style..... reguardless of his size or use of PED's and I am wrong, I will blissfully accept all while paying for the ability to stream the event with my friends. I will then analyze what I seen from the match and question what I should do as an "artist" to correct my craft. Ryron couldn't do to Barnett what Gordon did with his "weak guard" and using that as most recent not near 3 decades old relevant comparison evidence, I will continue to feel that there is value in some of the "new style" in the ART.
The jjgf hasn’t done much though let’s get it going I’m from barra but I really only train basics sport is important it’s a big draw and makes sparring important self defense should be the foundation of course then sport after but in a street fight it’s you will go back to the basics
Good luck with that. Money is the driving force behind all of this so unless you have a way to get money out of jiu jitsu then you are essentially fighting a loosing battle. At this point it's simply up to the individual to use their powers of discernment to figure out what school is best.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
This is very true. I remember taking MMA classes and when punches came into play, people that were good at BJJ froze up and could not protect themselves properly. The best form if BJJ I saw being taught was BJJ for MMA in which we hand MMA gloves on and were striking when going for submissions and avoiding submissions. This is my opinion simulates what would happen in a real fight.
“Master the basics”
-Rickson Gracie.
We should allow open hand strikes to anyone that pulls guard
Agreed
Why not just train combat jiu jitsu if you want to do that?
I want up kicks from guard then
we train to avoid them/deal with them, along with other strikes.
we teach most of our youngest kids the upkick from guard.
Maybe slight striking simulation with minimum energy just to " remind" the person that certain positions or certain movements are not very good for SelfDefense / MMA
Had to get black belts in Kyokushin, Judo and BJJ …and compete, to figure it all out for myself! Now at 56 the key is: to forge the steel when you are young but learn the concepts and self defense for longevity and preservation as you age. OSU!
Damn, you can already consider yourself a living weapon
@@shinzu9494 im just really a teddy bear! and love the martial arts
What an eye-opening video and it came in a perfect moment for me. I signed up for self-defense exclusively with no ambition to compete and during my first class, I got smashed so badly. It took me a week to recover. I am glad I found a certified school in my city that offers self-defense aspects of jiu-jitsu and can't wait to try them out!
I am 5 foot 2 and i feel this way about no gi. I need as much realistic gi training possible without the pressure of competition and it is refreshing that this channel and this subject matter exists. Thank you😁
Wouldn't no-gi be better for self-defence since there is no guarantee in real-life that an adversary will be wearing a jacket or a coat of some kind?
@@Urizen61it depends on the climate you live in. Where I live, no gi is better because it is always warm. Where they live, people might wear heavy coats often. Gi training helps then.
Gi is more realistic... most ppl wear shirts.
""A guy who’s been wrestling and boxing for a year can beat a martial artist who’s been training for 15 years." ~ Bruce Lee
All day every day. Add Jiu-jitsu to that as well.
Judo and Jujutsu are martial arts right?
"I never said half those things" ~ Confucius
That's true but it depends on which martial arts you're talking about.
Make love not war -Jimi Hendrix 😎
8:25 students taught only by students.... yup, that is Gracie Barra. I visited Gracie Barra in Oceanside CA. The website presents the word champion Blackbelt but he is no where to be found. Only students smoking the newbies for 40 minutes doing exercises and no JJ.. this is a McDojo
2Xcitizen hmm. Maybe he was sick that day
@@ayurvology7537 so when the instructor is sick it helps to just waste student's time doing exercises instead of jj?? Here they also bring up the instructor being absent and leaving it up to students to teach... maybe they are just going the McDojo route.
2Xcitizen Gracie Barra produces champions. So it must be just one out of 100
Literally exact thing happened to Taekwondo back in the day. I learned Taekwondo as a kid in the eighties.
Till this day, many instructors and I am sure many reading this don’t even know that the Taekwondo kicks today are designed for tournaments where no leg grabbing or punch to the face are allowed as opposed to the original kicks or at least the way I was taught.
The kicks were executed in a way that took into account the possibility of your leg being grabbed or being counter punched in the face as you kicked. Therefore several of the kicks like roundhouse, front and side were very different.
Tkd never was realistic and never took grappling into to account
@@scarred10 couldn't be a more false statement. The issue is rule sets. WTF is designed to comply with IOC rules. ITF tends to (I say tends to because American schools tend to train ITF style, with WTF mindset) adhere to actual fighting. I saw the difference after being stationed in Korea for two years, and studying there.
@@deangullberry5148 there are no IOC tkd rules the rules are WTF. As for ITF which I trained for 17 yrs,it has nothing to do with fighting or self defense despite its claims .
@@scarred10 I guess you needed a better Dojang then...
@@deangullberry5148 I trained all over Europe from 85 until 2002, in eastern europe the contact was harder,more like full contact at times but all ITF schools are very strict on following gen chois syllabus so there wont be anything practical involved,basically nonsense.
This is what happened to karate in the Japanese university competition system. All the in fighting clinch work that's demonstrated in kata was lost and replaced with long rang point fighting.
Awesome post Ryan ... your videos are always entertaining. Going back to watching leg lock entries now.
lol.
Great video! This is why I sought out an “old school” Jiu-Jitsu school. I always try to think about self defense when rolling. I’ve sadly blown out my lower back and I’m relegated to video watching. I’m looking forward to getting back to training.
Your lower back is probably flexion dominated. You need to do extension exercises like reverse hyperextensions to balance it out.
And also general movements for posture like scapular retraction / depression and shoulder/hip external rotation. And neck , neck training is important
Suno Invicta thank you for your concern and suggestions!👍🙏
go see a chiro, PT, or qualified massage therapist.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thank you Professor!
Thanks for posting. So true and this is definitely a problem with a lot of jiu Jitsu schools today.
What is your take on 10th planet Jiu-Jitsu since it seems like Eddie Bravo wants a more applicable form of Jiu-Jitsu for MMA (at least from what I have gathered?)
I have none.
Interesting discussion - I’ve been doing different martial arts since 1987, but I am just a 2 stripe blue belt in GJJ under a Royce Gracie black belt - I totally agree the art is martial, was meant for combat, and should be taught that way - however, I think that at least in part what we have today is due to the effort to spread Jiu Jitsu throughout the world - the majority of public may not have the interest, patience, or discipline to train in the old way - we put gloves on all the time, but many do not - I believe in the least sport schools should advertise themselves as teaching sport Jiu Jitsu, rather than the old school martial art.
Exactly! I've been very fortunate. I trained under Dan Anderson, from Anderson's Martial Arts, when he first opened and it was hardcore. Now things changed there. Then under Jorge Patino, "Macaco" but he now lives in Florida. Now under Rene Dreifuss, at Radical MMA. All realistic first, before sport
Excellent message Ryan. Keep up the good work. God bless you and your family.
Thank you, Travis.
Can someone point me to the article that is referenced in this video? I would like a copy of it and to look at it from time to time.
We get thought both. And sometimes I raise my hand and ask "How would this work in a real life situation"? and we go over it. We compete at least 4 times a year as a school.
A-team Jujitsu - Westminster Checkmat
What is your opinion on Gracie University? I know that added Gracie combatives to address this issue. I am considering taking classes under a local branch
I just started at Ralph Gracie academy in Vacaville. Am I at a good place?
This situation has been getting more and more apparent and even more important to point out as time goes by. I have always taught full combat Judo and Ju Jitsu, never the "sport" version. As we all know, the reason for the "sport" version, is that it can be practiced with a lot less injuries and it's more "friendly" for the masses. Most people do not want to learn the combat style because it's harder to learn and you have to be more disciplined to learn to put "ALL" of the techniques together. Real Judo or Ju-Jitsu is combat style and doesn't need the designation of Combat or Sport version. My son competes as a professional MMA and he has a record of 1 loss and 5 wins. Because he was taught full Judo and Ju-Jitsu, he can strike, off balance, throw, take down and ground and pound. He even wins championships in boxing matches due his movement and striking capabilities.
Nice!
The “combat Jiu-Jitsu “ tournaments are an attempt to bridge this divide
Eddie Bravo deserves credit for that, and apparently Rorion and Rickson like the concept. Those events have also exposed some of the weaknesses of the strict, guard pulling sport style. Nothing like getting smacked in the mouth to expose black belts in sport style.
It's been done in Brazil for decades in the training room, we call it "taparia" roughly translating to "slap fest"
that's how we trained in the academy to prep for vale tudo. we still do it to a certain extent today, but that kind of training works best when the majority of the students are under 30.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu god bless those vale tudo days ❤️, but why under 30? Is it too late if im 30+ ?
@@KamaJiuJitsu why so? Why under 30 if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for posting. This is why I'm going to buy the Gracie Combatives System 2.0.
So is Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu worth studying ? Is that the fake version? I was going to join one local to me but now hearing this I’ll go with my first option if so I wanted to join the roger Gracie Academy first but travel etc made me look at the Barra one
Can you post the link to what Reylson wrote? I would like to copy and paste it on my page.
Excellent video! I wish every academy had a head instructor who shared the same philosophy and sentiments. Unfortunately this happens to really anything or activity that goes from being roughly sacred to becoming pop culture...The purity in practice of said activity gets lost usually in the wake of an ever growing desire for expediency or progressive financial gain. It’s no denying that the awesome benefits of jiujitsu were designed for everyone, but the guardians of the art form (originally the Gracie clan as one unified big family) I don’t think truly ever foresaw the damage it would do to JiuJitsu nor the dangers that await jiujitsu as a whole that would arise from their inner family feuds and ultimate divisions.
I just started bjj. My main interest is in self-defence. It is very very difficult to find an academy that teaches the martial version of the art. Most jiu-jitsu schools focus on the sports aspect. I did eventually find one, but it took some doing!
Look up Dan The Wolfman on RUclips.
Even though I practice a different system of Ju-Jitsu (Atemi Ryu Ju-Jitsu) I have seen a vast difference between BJJ and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Most BJJ schools are missing a lot of the self defense essences that is Jiu Jitsu... a lot (but not all) seem to only know how to shoot in for a double leg take down, with zero or limited knowledge of nage waza. Same applies to taking on a good stand up striker. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu practitioners on the other hand are well versed in this and all self defense.
Bjj and Gracie are exactly the same thing,what's taught varies by school
@@scarred10 Not really, Gracie Jiu Jitsu has very good self defense, where some BJJ schools don't give it much importance, focusing on rolling. BJJ seems to now be a generic term covering many types of schools derived from the same origins. Some only do grappling for competition, some have very good self defense training. Go to 3 different non affiliated BJJ schools and chances are they have different curriculums. Saying BJJ now is akin to saying Karate... they may have the same lineage, but different goals and methods.
I live in a small community and have joined a bjj club here. It definitely falls into the sport jiu-jitsu side of this discussion. I have had discussion with another member who like myself found the self defence instruction lacking. Without access to any other schools I am looking for options to supplement the training I am receiving. Is Gracie University's " Gracie Combatives " worth checking out? Or does anyone have any other online resource suggestions.
www.patreon.com/kamajiujitsu
Sport competition is the natural evolution of all martial arts. As societies become more and more safer and physical confrontation less and less common than in ancient times, it is just inevitable that we channel these amazing disciplines into more "friendly" environments such as demonstrations and sports events. As opposed to what those old school Masters say I believe that an average BJJ student that is only familiar with the competition aspect of the Art will still have a considerable advantage over the regular Joe on the street, should a physical confrontation break up.
Its funny when I revisit videos how often I'm reminded of my own views and journey professor. Being a Vunak and Inosanto student/full instructor myself (so you know through Vunak alone how important Jiu-Jitsu is to us in this particular lineage)... I find myself at the opposite end of this struggle. I'm also a prior LEO and current LEO DTAC and firearms instructor... I've used a ton of gracie self defense techniques and tactics throughout my career. They've literally saved my life! BUT I've been a blue belt for the last 19 years (I'm not kidding, since 2004) haha! Every time I walk into most gyms here in colorado I can't really roll the way these sport guys do... and I get odd looks... but trust me I know how to fight... but I'm stuck in this combatives place not really able to move up in most bjj schools in my area. At least thats how it truly feels.
Go to Kenny Gabrielson.
@KamaJiuJitsu I would absolutely love the chance to train with Professor Gabrielson... plus we'd trade Vunak stories haha. Unfortunately he's in Colorado Springs and that's a bit of a trek for me... I'm closer to Boulder than anything, with springs being waaaaay south. I'll try and make it down to his gym sometime soon though... he's a legend and I know Sifu Vunak always spoke highly of him back in the Ol' torrance gracie garage days.
Well, after college (and training with GM Relson in HI), I only looked for work in SoCal so I could train with Rickson.
@KamaJiuJitsu absolutely! But my career and four kiddos keep me locked in at times haha. I'll get down there soon for sure. It's just here in the north Colorado area there are only sport oriented gyms :/ good gyms mind you for sure! But definitely competition minded gyms.
Im very Glad I train at Ciaquie Gracie Jiu Jitsu I hope I get back as soon as possible .
I train at a Caique affiliated school too.
Tony is at the "actual" Caique school in SoCal.
I agree with what reylson is saying. It almost sounds like he doesn’t believe that sport BJJ should exist. Either it’s a fighting art or it isn’t. Rolling from the knees without strikes is more of a drill than learning to fight. A drill has been turned into a sport and people think they will magically be able to defend punches even though they never train against them. They think they will magically be able to do takedowns even though they never start from the feet. This reality vastly narrows the body of knowledge that is jiujitsu. The number of moves greatly decreases but the tiny variations greatly increase. Case in point as a black belt I recently started training mma rounds. I do it regularly after class and it’s a difficult transition. You get so much more tired and the transition from standing to ground requires different timing. The people that think it’s an easy bridge are kidding themselves. You have to put in all of the variables or you will get tired really fast. Only by putting yourself in such environments over and over again will you learn to relax and conserve energy.
I agree on the self defence part - it was one of the main reasons I've moved to more looking at catch wrestling. I asked a top professor in Australia who has the blessings of the top Gracies about being underneath in half guard for self defence one time in class...he thought it was fine. I'm like have you seen what Couture, and good strong wrestlers do in topside half guard...they lock you down with their legs and start smashing your face in. I'd rather NOT be in that position thanks.
The lack of proper self defense technique is abysmal, and the way it's practiced is even worse. I honestly think atm Catch Wrestling does it better (atleast they practice a full range of positions and techniques). I'd rather take a blue or purple belt that was an excellent teacher (structure class well, lots of set position sparring, different concepts intertwined) than a medicore black belt teacher that might be awesome at competition but is trash at actual teaching styles. You don't need the belt to be a great teacher - many MMA coaches have PROVEN this. I'd argue that the way we are given black belts in BJJ doesn't teach you how to be an effective teacher at all, because whatever it is your master teaches you in how to teach is all you know.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Catch doesn't teach guard passing, guard retention , sweeps or any guard besides turtle. Gi Sport BJJ doesn't teach takedowns, pinning, standing up or leglockz
In the purest form of Catch Wrestling they count pins as wins so no one develops any guard game, because if they are taken down into a guard position they count it as a pin. Also if no one in the gym has a great guard it means you can't get a high level of submission defense or passing.
Suno Invicta wrong.they call guard a leg scissor position. They do smash, pass (often through forcing chains of attack and responses) and submit from all positions. most dominate pins come from side control. They do elbows and strikes historically (Billy Robinson talked about this in a seminar). They do a lot of standup, sweeps and get ups when underneath, and yes they defend against chokes because all submissions are allowed so going to turtle isn’t great given the proclivity of people trying to actively take your back (other grappling styles with with no submissions will do this though). Leg locks, yes that is core - in fact tons more submissions are allowed that still BJJ wouldn’t practice (such as neck cranks).
A pin forces movement instead of waiting for an opportunity. it’s showing that you are in danger in a self defense situation where being on bottom could
Mean death if they have friends coming. you want to be on top and know how to use technique to get to top or standing. Number 1 self defense position on the ground is knee on belly so you can look around, submit, strike or disengage if needed.
From a self defense perspective it covers a far greater range of effective self defense scenarios built into its day in day out rules than what I’ve seen in BJJ schools - and I love BJJ. It has all the timing, technique and concepts as these are universal.
@@tommcalpine6062 if you're flat on your back in guard...you're doing it wrong.
@I LIVE That's a cool documentary. I'm not surprised - I mean you can't say you lost if you literally left the match half way through it...
100% agree. I suppose there is a place for "sport BJJ" and I have NO problem with the practice but Reylson hit the nail on the head when he talked about the DECEPTION that MANY, not ALL, but MANY "sport/tournament schools" engage in. They will tell you to your face that they are "self-defense based", teach "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu", etc., and to the casual or uninitiated, it's all Jiu-Jitsu. They'll get you to sign the contract, and then your stuck with 'BSJJ'-"BullSh*tJiuJitsu". It gets my dander up as over the course of my Jiu-Jitsu journey I've encountered more than a few who were mislead-AND the MOST disheartening thing, they STOPPED Jiu-Jitsu altogether and in their minds ALL Jiu-Jitsu schools are a scam. I'm so glad I found Gracie Unitversity and what I call "legit Jiu-Jitsu", because it's based on self-defense FIRST and ALWAYS. Great vid, Ryan!
@John Doe lmao! Made me laugh like hell! Bahahahahahahahahaha!
So is Kama JJ the same style as Rener and Ryron teaches? Serious question
Conceptually on the reason for existence and the end goal (self-defense), absolutely. As far as the technical concepts, philosophies, and execution, I’d say there’s about 75%-85% overlap. The difference, lies in GM Rickson’s “Invisible Jiu-Jitsu” concepts, which we believe are truly “next level,” having learned both sides of the coin.
@@KamaJiuJitsu thank you so much for the response
I cannot disagree with any of your points in this video I do feel there is a place for sports jiujitsu separate from traditional Gracie jiu-jitsu. I myself started Bjj solely for the sport side because my wrestling career was over. I very much wanted to fill that gap. Through hard work I did earn my black belt in “sport” bjj, but a few years later it was painfully clear how little I knew about self defense side. I did overtime sharpen those skills.I do feel that there is a large gap between sports jiu-jitsu and traditional Gracie jiu-jitsu. Hopefully in time the two sides will reconnect for more complete martial art.
Exact reason I stopped training at the school I was at. Primarily a competition setting. Had zero.....zero interest in that. Want self defense and learn how to not get my ass kicked. We did do SOME self defense. But not enough for me to stick around. Suck because I still want to train and the people there were awesome. Did feel a little clickish though because lots of folks competed and I didnt want to.😔
So going to a "Gracie School" is a hit or miss? How do we as new white belts determine the difference?
Ask if they train jiu jitsu with strikes.
If not, go elsewhere.
I like this video. How does one find old school GJJ out there?
Come train with me in Brazil. I have a special visitor's program for those who can't stay for too long but want to retain their techniques.
Beautiful break down of the current status of martial arts and the greed and ego behind it, it truely is being tainted with lies by a lot of schools about honor, truth and spirituality and the watering down of self defence and competition focus.
Reylson can hardly speak English so the message comes across as pure nonsense, people dont want to learn his bjj kata,if self defense is your goal, you wont get better than Gracie university, far better than what their father or grandfather taught.Why does reylson think hes unheard of compared to others in the family.
Well this revelation is slightly troubling...
Should I have taken hokutoryu jiu jitsu first instead of bjj if the goal is self defence?
Or does havin both have some fundamental issues when it deals with self defence?
Also (if I have enough energy left) does adding some kickboxing into mix right from the start (never havin done anything before my bjj) only hurt my progress?
As it stands after the That-What-Shall-Not-Be-Said is over, I could take up to six hours/week of training of those three combined.
A lot of questions, but as a newbie tryin to figure out the correct training to have...
Hi Ryan, if I'm not wrong, GM Joe Moreira is BB under Francisco Mansur from Kyoto Jiu-jitsu. Mansur is Hélio Gracie's BB
I train at a Joe Moreira affiliate school, and I can confirm that.
then he changed allegiance.
Most MMA fighters come from "sport" bjj schools--and its not as though gjj mma fighters have a statistically higher better chance at being successful. Is there a way to test all these assertions? Perhaps have a sport bjj vs gjj fight eachother?
They use jiu jitsu for the ground aspects of it and bridge the skill gap with other disciplines. Also the MMA jiu jitsu is a lot closer to gjj than bjj.
The thing is, once someone knows great bjj it doesn't take long to incorporate self defense principles (principles that are used in MMA).
Your statement is complete garbage.
@John Doe Notice I only asked a very simple question: Is there a way to test all these assertions? You said nothing.
To be clear, I'm not saying 'MMA' is a litmus test. I was, albeit implicitly, saying 'MMA' is the closest thing we have to actual self-defense scenarios or street fights which is why i brought it up
Unless you have a catalogue of street fights where 50% are BJJ and 50% are GJJ folks against similar opponents, and theres a significant difference in outcome; I think this is the sort of experiments needed to justify your assertions--until then, the best we have is 'MMA' in my opinion
This is what I meant--I'm not confused with reality or have a sportive mindset. I'm a BJJ practitioner with formal education in Maths and Philosophy. I know when conclusions dont follow from their premises (or when someone is making assertions w no justification) and simply ask for real evidence--always being respectful and without claiming others having a particular 'mindset' or being 'confused'.
Again, Is there a way to test all these assertions you are making?
@John Doe I dont understand your point. I made no assunptions--im claiming the video does, and for there to be real evidence for it. I proposed an experiment to give those assertions validity (in the video), but such evidence doesnt actually exist. All we have is 'MMA' as the best testing ground.
@John Doe I agree there are rules in MMA, as w any sport. I agree "vale tudo" translating to "anything goes" is closer to a street fight than MMA.
How many Vale Tudo matches are there today? How many GJJ and BJJ representatives do they have? Whatre the outcomes? Can you say one out performs the other?
Yeah, I'm struggling to find an instructor/gym who/which teaches _martial_ Jiu-Jitsu (GJJ) in my area. I think many of them are ultimately just former wrestlers (very popular in Western PA) who want to have a sport to continue in and a way to make a living. No doubt they can beat me up, but that's beside the point.
They’re beating you up in a way that’s not what you want to learn to do.
So my dear sir, how can we differentiate between the mutilated and the real one? In a nutshell
If you go to a school and they are never talking about distance management, punch protection, they talk about how to collect points etc
You are at a sport bjj school.
D'Eric Williams my man .. From the bottom of my heart.. God bless you
Where does an online curriculum fall under? Which who also teach defensive “true jits”, ie Gracie university.
The online curriculum is exactly the same as it is in the Academy. The grading is slightly different though.
You achieve an “online” certification. Which can be transferred to a “true” grading by making the journey to a CTC and undertaking a review/test..
Just because ryron and rener pulled off a scam with their online blue belts it doesn't mean that rickson and relson gracie are frauds!!!
GM Reylson probably includes GMs Rickson and Relson in his "mutilated" list, as well.
@@KamaJiuJitsu really??
@@hasanc1526 - Didn't they address that and change the belt for their combatives course?
I've watched some of their Gracie Academy videos. They are really well made. I don't think their online academy is a scam, especially if they corrected the belt issue. Honestly? I think the Gracie Academy is a great place for a jiu-jitsu practitioner to supplement their learning, especially as you can buy individual techniques for quite a reasonable price. And yes, you could probably find those same techniques on RUclips, but I doubt they would be as fully fleshed out as what I've seen from the GA videos I've watched.
I don't really have a dog in this fight but I think that any jiu-jitsu practitioner (martial or sportive) is going to have an advantage over someone who doesn't practice jiu-jitsu (martial or sportive). Having said that, I do find it ironic to say sport jiu-jitsu is mutilated if the person making the accusation is still training their students while wearing a gi. I understand that jackets can sometimes replicate a gi during a fight, but if one truly wants jiu-jitsu to be martial, I would think the majority of their training should be no-gi.
@John Doe - I have to disagree John. I have been in ZERO street fights, but the Gi doesn't simulate clothing. In normal clothing, you're not going to do cross collar chokes/loop chokes/anything that requires you to pull your opponent's Gi out and use it any which way, or use the sleeve/collar/belt to help set up a sweep etc.
I promise that I am not trying to be a jerk or argumentative, but there is no article of normal street clothing, short of a jacket, that will simulate a Gi. Take away the Gi and we are left with arm bars, kimuras. Americana's, leg locks, wrist locks, rear naked chokes, punch chokes, etc. No-Gi stuff. If a gym is training you in a Gi and says it is a self-defense jiu-jitsu school, I have to call shenanigans.
Having said that, I only train in Gi and my gym emphasizes IBJJF competitions, but I don't think the curriculum is particularly sport oriented. And having said that, if push comes to shove, I will catch the odd yahoo on the street in an armbar/triangle choke/rear naked choke if need be. I think so, but hope I never have to find out. Having to roll against all shapes, sizes, strengths and abilities doesn't hurt. I'm really not afraid to roll with anybody, although I realize that size/strength does matter and I might still end up being whupped.
@John Doe - That's fine, but could you elaborate? I train exclusively in a Gi, but I don't see where I will be doing any collar chokes, or using the sleeves to for grips when my opponent is wearing a short sleeve t-shirt.
I don't mind being wrong, that's one of the best ways to learn, but you have to provide me with more than a brush off for not getting into street fights. How does training in a Gi make a person a better fighter on the street than say a 10th planet guy? Say against someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt, which is common enough, or shorts and a t-shirt.
I also have to walk back what I said about a gym not being a self-defense jiu-jitsu school if they train in a Gi. That's not entirely accurate, as they can very well be self-defense oriented, but if they are teaching techniques based on the use of a gi collar, then they are sort of wasting a student's time with those techniques from a self-defense perspective.
hi, Gary, Ryan here. i was just reading your guys' exchange, which i really like. here in Dallas today this moment, it's 43 degrees F, and currently sitting in starbucks reading your collective comments/debate, i am wearing a Carhartt canvas jacket and jeans. that's pretty much the same as wearing a gi in class, don't you think?
and i pretty much wear something exactly like this anytime the weather is 60 and below.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Hi Professor Ryan! Thank you for commenting on my thread. Yes, definitely, anytime a person has a light/heavy jacket on, it makes for a good simulation of the gi.
@John Doe Exactly! I have been in many fights due to the hotheaded egos of course, and when you're unwilling to fight back, they simply go crazy it seems and attack like mad men. When these, and most fights in my opinion, when these occur, the guy almost always goes for the tackle and then tries to pin. The first thing to do seems to be to "grab" a belt loop or lower shirt area and roll out to side, and either strike or push off. I always pushed off. Then when they try to throw a punch, again you can "grab" the shirt and throw, grab the arm and throw, or simply step aside and watch them eat dirt; the latter was always my personal favorite. By the time they're done wearing themselves out, you simply ask if it's your turn, or walk away and wait for them to force you to actually use force.
The point here. The GI helps real world training in many ways. It also protects the limbs from burns and bruises. I would bet if this guy faced a real hardcore brawler, he would probably be beat within the first couple of seconds trying to pull some of this watered down crap. However, if calm and skilled enough, I pray I'm wrong. What people really seem to miss is the point that in a real fight, if you lose your cool, you already lost; and if you maintain your cool, but fail to act quickly and effectively, again you lost. Real fights suck! The guy is literally trying to kill you. It's nothing like the push and shove, scratch and roll, punch and punch back crap we see on tv. Nuff said.
What is the JJGF?
Rickson’s organization. Jiu-Jitsu Global Federation.
Absolutely interesting subject and video!!!! One of the very best videos from Kama Jiu-Jitsu I've seen!! In my opinion the only negative point to all of this perhaps is the use of word "Mutilated", which may be somewhat harsh and insulting to some readers. That said, the content is very provocative and well stated!! Great job bringing this subject up for discussion!!! Thanks you for this presentation...
i think he was meaning to be insulting and harsh.
I guess I fall into it's all jiu jitsu...
Where I train we do everything, we have people who compete, we have people who just come roll and we have people who wanna train self defense. My Instructor and a lot of the guys that train with us are cops so they teach a lot realistic situations but for me personally I would love to learn it all so I can teach and keep pushing the art forward! Oss 🤙🏿
Interested to hear your opinions on the Danaher guys? They’re definitely sport oriented but have a good wrestling base. Do you think their style would hold up on the streets?
Go pick a fight with Gordon Ryan or Gary tonon.
See what happens.
Medreg1983 lol my thoughts exactly 😂. And they’ve probably done minimal self defense training. A good wrestling base can do wonders.
G = P + T
Most untrained people have no takedown or takedown defense. If you can teach students how to do a single leg and control distance, which is done through standup sparring, I’d say they would be successful at defending themselves.
@Kama Jiu-Jitsu witch schools teach like you with parring punch's. Can you name a few or if only a few exists name all in the USA.
Similar to what is done with a lot of TKD and Karate schools. Promoting false combat competence with their belts and promises.
Is there public access to the database of schools teaching Martial Jiu Jitsu?
i doubt it.
Perhaps look at the schools listed on Rickson's JJGF website. Mine is on there and is definitely martial based.
many are not, and are simply on there for exposure.
you could say the same about all SPORT MARTIAL ARTS. but each has pros and cons
I do say the same about them all. Martial arts are for war not recreation.
Why do we hear that belt advancements are being made faster to students who compete in sports JJ - more so than the students who don’t compete in the sport? Do you guys see this as being true?
"Sport Jiu Jitsu" currently ruins competitions, leaving self-defence jiu jitsu practitioners unable to compete because there are two choices:
1. We make the rules of competition more and more like a real fight and then BJJ becomes MMA
2. BJJ has rules that limit the damage you take (i.e. no kicks and punches) and then sport schools exploit the gaps with bullshit like berimbolos and butt scooting
Unless competition organisers are constantly updating rules to prevent #2, then competitions do and will cause a perversion of BJJ. It's actually easily fixed, instead of only banning strikes - you need to ban moves that leave you overly exposed to strikes.
prior to 1997, the rule set in jiu-jitsu tournaments were adequate. but once they prohibited slamming someone to break closed guard, break collar chokes, and break triangles, it all started to go downhill. then pretty much everything became illegal after that, creating the ruleset that "evolved" jiu-jitsu into today's BJJ.
@@KamaJiuJitsu as a newcomer, the rules of BJJ seem designed to make guard pulling and butt scooting effective strategies. I do understand why we don't strike in BJJ and on balance, i like it because that enables me to do BJJ long after people stop doing MMA. But 'no slams' is a piss-take, i don't think you should be allowed to spike people on their head, but a regular slam should be fine. I literally gave and received them on day 1 of my MMA training and never had an injury or problem.
@@pcprinciple3774 Anything that is legal in Judo or Freestyle/Greco should be legal in BJJ. Not allowing hard takedowns and throws, or slamming to get out of holds, leads to a style that revolves around ridiculous developments like guard pulling and berimbolos. Funky guard playing is fun to train, but has no practical application in real life. That's the bottom line.
@@cdcaleo Amen to that
Hey Ryan, I understand you are more on the self defense side of Jiu-jitsu but also have students who compete in sport. I was wondering if subscribers to your channel and/or to your Patreon may submit their own tournament videos and you can critique, rate their tournament Jiu-jitsu and state how it is in your opinion. Thanks. Also do you have a link to Reylson Gracie's post?
I’d love to...
...if I had the time.
I want to start Jiu-Jitsu. How can i tell the sport academies from the combat/self defense academies?? I live in the Northern California Bay Area (Dublin). Can you please recommend a School for me to check out??
i can't recommend any schools in your area, since i haven't been there in years. i would just go and visit the ones near you and take a class. if they talk a lot of "points," a technique being "legal/illegal," and "the next competition is..." then you might be at a primarily sport school.
If you don't get punched in the face on your first day it is sport jiu-jitsu. :)~
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thank you 🙏🏽
Don’t do donkey guard in street fights.
Gracie Barra?
I'm looking for real feedback on gracie barra. I'm 43 and have been looking to start my journey in this art. But i only have a gracie barra close to me. What is your opinion on GB? Looking for true self defense and not the watered down art.
Any help would be very appreciated.
Thanks
I
Anything Gracie Barra is sport. That’s what the Ibjjf is mostly about. - Rusty
@@KamaJiuJitsu
Thanks for the time to reply.
Much respect
I live in Kissimmee Fl.
Any suggestions on finding the best option?
It seems like GB is everywhere and we have very few options here.
I'm kinda lost.
Any kind of help would be great.
If that's all you got Greg, I say go for it. Jiu-jitsu, sportive or otherwise, is awesome! I do think Gracie Barra is very sportive and I did win the Seattle Open against a younger Gracie Barra competitor (I'm 50 but, as a white belt, have to compete in Masters 3, instead of Masters 5), and a GB student, who came to our school after his school closed, gave me my first triangle choke, and head and arm choke. Having said that, both of those guys are awesome in my opinion and again, if that's all you've got, you have to work with what you've got until you have other options. Good luck man!
Crazy my. 4 year old gets one on teaching with black and brown belts at a sport school in temecula they teach her headlock escapes double leg takedowns trips defense against punches etc..
Does anyone know of a real martial arts bjj school in the New York area?
I'm not sure if youre being sarcastic. Renzo Gracie Academy. Its one of the best in the world.
@@berningsandwiches2662 Renzo's is one of the best in the world, but folks I know that train there are not learning the old school combative techniques. They still love it, though.
@@cdcaleo true, they're not learning the old school, self defense focused bjj. You'd have a difficult time making the case it doesn't work though.
Gary Tonon comes from Renzos and he's destroying it in One. Kron Gracie learned the old school techniques directly from Rickson and from what I can see his striking needs to be updated. No disrespect intended, I'm still a huge fan of them both.
Kron beat Gary, though.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Kron beating Gary grappling doesn't surprise me at all. I just think Gary would have the edge in MMA.
Once again much respect. I love your channel and what you do.
We Judoka's have seen the same thing.
"Olympic Judo" ... a castrated "demo" form of Judo I should not spell with a capital J.
If you look back at the old footage of Mifune sensei or Jigoro Kano himself, that is Judo.
I want My Judo to be the technics these man teacheth there students.
Do not let this happen to BJJ, to sanction and allow a sporterized form of the true art carry the same name. It is an insult.
Gracie jiu jitsu was created to defend your own life by strangling someone else's.
Master Reylson and the like would do a great service to point out by name and organizations that only teach 20%. So that the Customer/Jiu Jitsu practitioner's can make a better educated decision. There is no shame calling them out.
except that lawsuits often subsequently occur in our litigious society.
@@KamaJiuJitsu offer it as an opinion, protected speech.
Use the words, " In my opinion..." You'd then be ok. Can't legislate an opinion. I will be watching this closely.
true. but you might have to retain a lawyer to point out to the judge that it is protected speech.
still not worth the effort and expense, at times.
I just started and I have no idea if what im practicing is martial. I train at mizu jiu-jitsu in MTL. Any thoughts if this shcool is legit? If not any suggestions in MTL?
If you like the school and the instructor is from a credible lineage(doesn't have to be "pure", just credible) then just keep going and don't worry about it.
The rest of the 80% that he is claiming is bad kicking and punching. You can say the same about judo and sambo there is sport and combat versions. If you want standing self defense cross train in a stand up style like karate teakwondo muy tai ex.
You need to know both. And every school should teach both. Period.
To be clear: training safely with strikes! and training safely without strikes
Have you, Dave Kama or Rickson Gracie heard any of the recent interviews with Robert Drysdale and his book and maybe one day/coming soon documentary on the origins of jiu-jitsu in Brazil? Certain people agree with the information that he's put out, while others such as Fabio Gurgel that weren't too happy.
So with the mindset of sport BJJ being watered down Gjj, then Gjj is watered down Judo, solely focusing on newaza. Something to chew on.
Hi Ryan, I'm someone who is planning to start BJJ/GJJ as soon as the restrictions on group activities are lifted in my country. I'm surprised to infer from Reylson Gracie's comments that sports oriented BJJ has little to no stand up game, is that a correct understanding? If so I'm would have to be very careful about which school or gym to choose to join, having no stand up game seems very lacking for an effective martial art.
Just come to Brazil and take classes with me personally.
Yea I can see how butt scooting in a street fight would be bad. Lmao! Least someone would finally kick em' for us! 😂
So is Gracie barra self defense or more sport
Sport
I would argue Kama JJ is a mutilation as well. If you say it's self defense jiu jitsu, your students should be actively proving it in MMA. Just as the Gracies used to do. This is my main issue with schools claiming to be "self defense" oriented. And I meant with with full respect.
One day. All depends on the desires of the student base.
And it’s not “MMA,” it was “Vale Tudo.”
wtf? Self defense is mma now? In what world is a trained combat mma athlete the common person walking around in public? If you get attacked in public it most likely won't be from a trained mma athlete but from a criminal with a rap sheet.
Competition is one of the best ways to actually test your skills in a stressful situation. So I think people should be encouraged to compete, rather than the opposite.
I don't really see a big problem in training both in "sports" BJJ and MMA at the same time. They supplement each other very well. So, is it really such a big loss if most BJJ gyms don't teach more of the (supposedly, as these things are honestly difficult to test and prove) street-viable techniques?
I'm also convinced that sparring sports BJJ at 100% prepares you better for real life situations than *only* sparring with strikes at half tempo would prepare you. Combining both is even better tho.
Either way, to my ear, Reylson Gracie comes off sounding a bit bitter with his text, which, I think, is highly unnecessary.
You see, that'd be right... until you see the ruleset in competitive BJJ, which is absolutely horrible, because it discourages or hides moves that are really useful for self defense aspect being taught. This is why, in a way, boxing becomes a better combat sport for self defense, or Muay Thai, or Sanda, simply because of their ruleset as it simulates more of an actual fight. BJJ's ruleset has alot of pauses where you can't just transition from one move to another instantaneously.
No, not when the competition involves a bunch of super-restrictive rules that do not reflect even close the realitirs of a fight.
@@petercoderch589 Put a competitive BJJ blue belt into a ring with a guy with no training. The blue belt wins 99% of time.
Competition is the closest you can get in stress levels to a fight or a self defense situation.
Someone who's good at sports BJJ is going to be vastly superior in a no rules fight compared to someone who has no training.
@@tzaeru
Bjj is very great for ground fight.
But as for standing is terrible and full of holes. And fights always strart standing. Moreover it teaches you some very bad habits even at ground, like pulling guard which is DANGEROUS and absurd in a real situation.
Sport bjj is not enough for self defence. MMA is much more useful.
I think that the rules of sport bjj have ruined the bjj.
Agree, we trained and sparred in the parking lot the other week. Jiu Jitsu needs to work in between cars, up against a wall, and against opponents with weapons (acknowledging we're better off with a weapon at that point)
Hmmmm. Think I may be changing Jiu Jitsu schools in the future. My previous class, the coach who is a purple belt just blatantly said, “I’m sure y’all don’t want to know the self defense part” then went into teaching what was an arm bar(while using your own gi) and arm triangle choke from side mount?
Well as a white belt, I’m thinking don’t I need to learn how to get to side mount/control first? I was a little disappointed that I didn’t learn self defense that day.
My only concern now if I change schools (there’s only a handful here) is what will the instructor show me on my first day? I’d be more than happy just learning the very basics, I’d rather learn to escape positions and submissions. Other places I have been, the instructor was showing “lasso guard” on my first day. I never went back to that place.
Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I want to maximize my mat time learning the most efficient basic techniques that apply to street and competition (If I decide to compete).
Here you go.
www.kamajiujitsu.com/memberships/
first day o old school jiu jitsu: learn how to make a strong base, and get yourself exposed to some real life street fight positions in a controlled motion, just so you can see where you are going to get once you get great training.
there’s no need for learning submission scalped and things like that, then you should probably understand how to defend from a punch, how to close the distance after defending from the punch.
then after you know that, understand how to fall into the ground, then after defending from a punch, a basic way to get someone down (no gi grips) and not get kicked in the head after the person is down.
then the other way around, how to defend myself after I am taken down.
only then I would start thinking of submissions, you have increased the chances of that first day guy not getting beat up in a street fight the next day!
I follow your videos and recall one video you did outside talking about how you tried some of the sport aspect but said you dedicated yourself to the self defense. In the NW, I am trying to find a true self defense school but when I send emails, messages, etc. on self defense, I get absolutely no reply. There are Gracie Jiu Jitsu affiliated schools (Certified Training Centers) but run by non-black belts. There is a machado school but feel it’s more sport. Need assistance.
Get some mats, find a buddy, and do these lessons. www.kamajiujitsu.com/memberships/
Or, look through our catalog of videos on YT. I go over how to find the right academy for you on several of them.
Starting from zero a sport JJ school still begins with *some* useful foundational skills and principles. Unfortunately most of the rolling experience (my observations and experience) starts crouched on the ground without much context about how to get there in an advantageous position (takedowns while maintaining posture and base) or any stand-up skills about avoiding fighting and going to the ground in the first place. The beginning of self defense training is awareness, avoidance, and attitude before any fighting techniques.
I think they mostly do that due to space issues and safety to be honest. At my school they will focus several weeks each year on takedown/grip fighting classes and have even brought in Judo instructors for takedown seminars. But then, my instructor started off in Judo and doesn't like for his students to pull guard.
Having said that, regardless of how the fight got to the ground, the guy will either be in your guard or you will be in theirs, or both of you will be fighting for advantage, so it makes sense to focus on what happens after you are already on the ground. In my opinion anyway.
Excellent video
Would love to see the martial techniques
More should be said about Reylson
Reylson Gracie sent a public Facebook message to my professor asking him when he was going to start teaching martial Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
In my opinion that's disrespectful.
My professor handled it well saying he teaches it everyday.
The school I attend is a mix between sport and self defense (Royler affiliate).
Royler is a great competitor and legend in the art. IDK you, your teacher or the school you teach, but I'm sure you're receiving top notch instruction.
I used to train at a Royler affiliate and was no where near half sport half defense. It was probably 80% sport. Why I left.
@cooploves jiujitsu I have not.
This reminds me of a religious schism:
"Your religion is fake, I am the truth, the light, and the way."
"Reject false idols."
Plot twist: all religions are fundamentally about power (and money).
I like what u said. Bjj can b performed and done in many different ways, there is not just one way to teach it. Some people believe there is only one way to teach it and u r not allowed to add to it to make it better. Some people are still operating on windows 95 and need to be on windows 10 ??
Raymond Ramallo Windows 10 had so many flaws because the operating system was not properly vetted. In fact, many have crashed and went back to the older versions. Your point just fell on it's own face and proved the exact flaws this "mutilated" system has. It was never properly vetted or labeled. Nuff said!
Disagree, I've trained in a sport BJJ school and currently train under a Rickson Gracie black belt. We train in the parking lot sometimes, with training knives, in enclosed spaces like our changing room. Jiu jitsu needs to work in real life, not just on a squishy mat.
many ways to "teach." but at the end of the day, all students SHOULD know all the same things to start. anything else they add to that after learning the common concepts is icing on the cake.
nice. give a shout out to your professor.
Love your shirt!
Great summary
Being that pretty much all instructor lineages go back to the gracies at what point is reylson saying it got corrupted?
The part where you learn delaheva before how to escape a headlock for example!
What you said.
George Sellhorn lmao your probably right haha
Kama Jiu-Jitsu soooooo follow up question, is 10th planet part of that “corrupted” Jiu Jitsu?
it's Eddie Bravo Jiu-Jitsu.it's not Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Is there a list of who is a part of the Dirty Dozen?
it's an "estimated" list, since no one kept accurate records at the time. it's on google.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thank you for the quick reply!
Reylson and Carlson Gracie Jr. are the only ones from Carlson's line who are keeping it real.
What about Rodrigo Medieros (San Diego). BJJ revolution. No doubt he is legit.
So does Allan Goes at his school. You get stripes on your white belt as you learn self defense techniques like avoiding punches, closing the distance, and standing choke escapes in addition to the basics of ground work and blocking punches on the ground.
I believe Reylson got his black belt from his father Carlos just like Carlson did so he wouldn't be from Carlson's line.
Any old school BJJ schools in NY? Specifically queens
BJJ as self defence worked fine 30 years ago when noone knew about it . Not so much these days. Gracies didnt change with time and now they are left behind ...
@John Doe Really? You will bring up superfights? Also he did not he has silvers and bronze as much as gold . Looks to me you talk without even knowing that mans record. Once more for ppl not paying attention: sport BJJ is Gracie idea. They are just pissed that people found better ways to fight it ( which is normal when so many people do it) amd they can't keep special techniques just for themselfs. We all heard back in the day that they would not teach all so they can keep some for themselfs . All respect to them for bringing to the point where others could carry on but they let time pass them by. If they didnt make it all about the money maybe they would keep the respect for longer ...
@John Doe i understand. Why my obsession? You the one that brought it up. I just pointed out how wrong u are . If u have your own view of what a win is , or what requirements a win needs you can claim whatever . Exp: i went into a tournament lost but i was never submitted and now im the best in the world cos sweeps are for lady boys and i do not count those .
Who cares what channel this is ,, there is a question posed in this video and that is what we are discussing.
IBJJF is gracies association. Their idea to start and still lead by some of them . They started whole sport aspect of it . That is why i think it is hypocrisy to talk about bad changes in BJJ . I think it hurts that these days their only relevance is as historical figures .
I think they should be feel pride about what they started not trying to wrestle it back so they feel most ( most respect) important again ...
@John Doe OK . First i want to thank you cos talking to me did crystallize why i train BJJ . It is for sport reasons .
I did put all gracies in one corner but that was unconscious cos i only know of maybe 20 so easy to forget it is a lot of different clans by now.
I do have 2 problems with whole situation that made me start this conversation. First is money aspect. Since the start in Brazil to here where i live on other side of planet from Brazil and USA is - you need to pay to play and pay for every aspect directly from the team .
Second is all this nostalgic crap about what we had was pure and that makes it beautiful , all this new things just ruin it. People can swear on self defense all they want but closing yourself off from progress is just what made a martial arts a joke by the end of 20 century. I get it that you like it but you should not be that confident in learning menaging distance from Gracies . Not today , not anymore .
Im sure in RL we have more things in common then not but drawing lines is not helping anyone . The moment Gracie bjj pulls away from sport bjj completely is the moment GBJJ dies .
@John Doe kk , ill answer easiest first. 😁 . What you call sport BJJ is not bjj anymore i agree . I think better name for it is Grapling , gi or nogi . It evolved past GBJJ and yes evolved. You said it yourself : Gracie bjj is basicly white belt technique perfected . I cant help you if u dont see the beauty in exp. just a million options of worm guard or heel hooks . G where sure they perfected what they had so they stayed there , you could walk in their garage 30 years ago and you could not show them anything new .
Reason why we have all those rules is so people can go to tournaments every month not because we need them so we are capable of performing what we do .
Give me one example of where it is better to know GBJJ then MMA . Please, ill wait ...
@John Doe IBJJF is just one small thing of what im arguing for . What about hundreds of other gi and no gi federations? Among our sport folk IBJJF is considered a entry lvl tournament, famous for mostly how much money they charge you to be a part of it. So you to judge all based on IBJJF seems like strawman thingy...
I think In judo is worse judo used to have leg locks but they were banned judo used to have leg grabs but they were forbidden and most schools didn't practice them anymore judo used to be a lot better than it is today hope it doesn't happen in that way to bjj.
Very true. I am glad my first experience was GJJ. Now, after 10 years, I relocated to a different geographic location. Well, all schools in my area are sport oriented: thus far, I haven't seen headlock escapes taught, no knife, club, and punch defenses. When I mount, even high level purple belts, they push from the bottom and muscle their way out! I am using this as an opportunity to make my GJJ work against competition people and muscle heads.
What's the legit way to escape a mount?
the traditional ways to escape the mount are with either the upa or the elbow escape or a sequence involving both.
@@KamaJiuJitsu ahh ok hip thrust...can't believe purple belts did it wrong. Thanks karma JJ 👌🏽. Back in 1988 in 3rd grade I was fighting a bully, I was doing well till we grappled n I got full mounted. He was punching me n I was going crazy hips n all breaking some of his balance till his punk friend put his knees on my biceps. It was over then...everyone just watched n after he let me go I was like come on let's fight toe to toe but he pulled back. Next day his daddy picked him up from school
..smh
it's not only purple belts. here's the GOAT himself, teaching this very concept. ruclips.net/video/oZXKnT4RweE/видео.html
Everything with the word "sport" and "Olympic" shouldn't be considered as self defense. However, I hate when people hate the sport aspect. Taekwondo for example. Many people hate Olympic tkd and point it as the culprit for ruining tkd. The rules and bad coaches ruined tkd, but the athletic/sport aspect cannot ruin a martial art. I have done Olympic sparring most of my life and when I was introduced to bjj I already had an athletic background to pick it up. Same with the other Olympic sparring practitioners who tried bjj. I am sure a sport bjj practitioner can adapt to a more self defense bjj and mma. Leave the sport for people who don't want to go pro or join the army 😂
Originally, I thought the Gracies mocked the the master/grandmaster terms. Now they all are grandmasters.
As for reylsons comment....? Who cares that some like to practice sport? Maybe those people don t care about the 'battlefield.' At the end of the day....old style jiu jujitsu is not preparation for combat. At the end of the day it's all sweaty men wrestling.
First, I have tons of respect for all of the Jiu Jitsu pioneers and feel greatful for their shared knowledge. I have a great love for the Helio style I started under, and strongly believe that the original "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" is more than sufficient as a "sport" as well as THE individual martial art form.
That said, there is a feeling that many of those pioneers believe that the ART has no room for growth beyond Carlos and Helio teachings. Rolls inclusion of cross training is the original growth beyond his teaching. Today, I believe that some of the "NEW" or "MANGLED" JJ are relevant in both art and sport.
There are pleanty of venues that could host the original UFC format if a "challenge" match would like to be offered, and I and everyone else in combat sports would watch it via the streaming/PPV outlet of the promoters choice.
Proper fundamentals will always be the gold standard of Jiu Jitsu reguardless of application, but growth of both sport or techniques is not the mangling of the art.
I'm sure that Garry Tonon, Danaher, or the Ryan's could change someone's mind, John Doe.
I don't think imanari rolls is ideal for fights but there is a video of a kid catching a heel hook in self defense.
If GJJ keeps the mindset of Helio only it will be left behind. Sport JJ is a fun test. Street fights are for thugs. If you can do it on the street, it will work on the mat, which is basically what I said in my opening statement. To think it is "complete" is silly, and ignoring other techniques due to ego leads to a less effective art.
@John Doe Well if any Helio style GJJ guys want to challenge Gordon to a fight, we could put this to rest.
@John Doe It applies to your comments of it being self defense, in which case it shouldn't matter if he was on all the steroids and had a bat. I don't take it personal. I take it logical. As in, Ryan's style works. If someone from Torrance could beat him, they would. They can't. Aside from the street all the sons of Helio competed. They loved singing of their records. Then others started winning, and amazingly competition wasn't part of the art anymore.
Again, a simple challenge to whom I think is the best current grappler in the world would settle this. I could type that a 4th time. You could argue that he uses drugs. You could then contradict yourself by saying it's a martial art and self defense based in which drug use and size wouldn't matter.
The funny thing is, I'm not even a leg lock guy. I just see it's effectiveness, and people who sound like old men telling stories of "back in my day..." don't seem to be open minded. It's been fun disagreeing.
@John Doe
If it's a self defense martial art, than the opponents use of PED have no matter. You want to separate it from sport, and then turn to competitive rule set to sway the idea of a Ryan match. NoGi wasn't unrealistic when Rickson faught Zulu. Or the fight on the beach. Or in Japan.
Again, not upset. Not defensive. Just an opinion. Just like you having yours.
@John Doe Apologies, he faught Zulu without a gi. It was shorter to write NoGi. I used it as an example of how the Gracies had no issues with rule sets which you say they are so against. The beach is another exaple of what you called unrealistic Gi-less combat. With Zulu and Japan, again you bring up rule set which makes it sound like you are for rules, but that contradicts your argument that it's a martial art not a sport.
Again.......
4th through 50th time.....
Someone could issue a challenge and settle it. With or with out rules of their choosing.
If it's a martial art..... and a martial artist issues a challenge to a sport based Ryan..... and if the superiority of the ART trumps the "athleticism" of his sport style..... reguardless of his size or use of PED's and I am wrong, I will blissfully accept all while paying for the ability to stream the event with my friends. I will then analyze what I seen from the match and question what I should do as an "artist" to correct my craft.
Ryron couldn't do to Barnett what Gordon did with his "weak guard" and using that as most recent not near 3 decades old relevant comparison evidence, I will continue to feel that there is value in some of the "new style" in the ART.
The jjgf hasn’t done much though let’s get it going I’m from barra but I really only train basics sport is important it’s a big draw and makes sparring important self defense should be the foundation of course then sport after but in a street fight it’s you will go back to the basics
Good luck with that.
Money is the driving force behind all of this so unless you have a way to get money out of jiu jitsu then you are essentially fighting a loosing battle.
At this point it's simply up to the individual to use their powers of discernment to figure out what school is best.
there's nothing wrong with money, provided adequate value is exchanged for that money.