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How To Pick The Best Laptop For Programming!
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
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@JustJoshTech is here to help you pick the best laptop for programming! Josh is a professional programmer and laptop reviewer, so he’s got a unique perspective to offer.
Check prices for laptops suggested by Josh 👇👇
Acer Swift X: amzn.to/3JnC5FF
MacBook Air: amzn.to/32nVeXv
Lenovo IdeaPad 5 Pro: lenovo.vzew.ne...
HP Pavilion Aero: tidd.ly/3puIyGW
MacBook Pro 13: amzn.to/3EvssRz
Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Pro: lenovo.vzew.ne...
MacBook Pro 14: amzn.to/3pyE1U3
MacBook Pro 16: amzn.to/3z8mzsr
Gigabyte Aero 17: Amazon - amzn.to/3JzQXkz | Newegg - bit.ly/3ir2Lsu
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Prefer a written version? Check out the article here: jarrods.tech/h...
What Makes a Great Laptop for Programmers in 2022?
0:00 Introduction to Josh
1:16 Processor (CPU)
4:07 Single or Multi Threaded Performance?
6:13 Graphics (GPU)
9:02 Older 2nd Hand Models?
9:23 Memory (RAM)
11:10 Upgradeability Options
11:28 Storage
13:58 Screen - IMPORTANT!
18:18 Keyboard - IMPORTANT!
21:03 Camera
22:25 Ports
23:55 Battery
27:56 Operating System
31:26 Low End Laptop Suggestions
33:12 Mid Range Laptop Suggestions
34:41 High End Laptop Suggestions
36:24 Laptop Reviews For Programmers
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Big thanks to Jarrod for having me round. It was great fun to talk laptops and all things Tech!!
Keep nodding!
Ok
Wow 😲. Good to see You both together !!! 👍
Quick question and because this comment will be popular.
At pick ryzen 3000 popularity, i recommended a 3300x for a guy on a budget to do his programming, some random guy (that I will call Justin, sorry if anyone has this name) basically trash talked and to summarize said "you can't do that on ryzen buy a intel"...
Was Justin just full of sh*t, or is there some random problem with ryzen when programming?
(side note, if I remember correctly it was java and c++)
@@frieza1016 he was prolly just "full of sh*t". There are no problems that i am aware of and i've personally had none to this point (php, javascript, python developer here)
Jarrod paying attention and looking at the camera is a vibe.
Me: Pretending to understand
@@JarrodsTech 😅
@@JarrodsTech 😂😂😂
@@JarrodsTech haha lol
@@JarrodsTech noo, you just pretend to not understand and innocent 😅
As a software developer myself I enjoyed this discussion because it was very thorough. And great questions, Jarrod!!!...some of the topics you covered weren't things I necessarily consciously think of when selecting a laptop but they absolutely play into my decision (subconsciously). I agree with everything that was covered in this video. Here are a couple of my personal preferences for a developers laptop:
1) Need for a Matte (non-glossy) display. Office environments can often times have harsh lighting conditions (overhead lights, large bright office windows, etc.). There is nothing more frustrating than having to look at code on reflective (glossy) display and having to constantly adjust your screen or your position to try and avoid the reflection. It can really strain the eyes. In this regard, Matte displays make a HUGE difference. Of course the brighter the screen the better. Personally I like Matte displays with a minimum of 400 nits of brightness and preferably 500 nits.
2) RE: ports...Ok this is more of a nice to have..besides having the ability to charge via USB-C, my preference is to have a USB-C port on both sides that I could use to charge the laptop. You never know where the plug is going to be (right side or left side) and having a charge port on either side of the laptop eliminates the need to snake the power cable around your laptop. Again not a huge issue but a nice to have. Also I should add that I've noticed that my USB-C ports on my 3 year old X1 Carbon laptop have become "stretched" over time and loose...likely because of the strain from wrapping the power cable around the laptop. On that note one of the things I like about Lenovo Legion Gaming laptops is that they offer a good number of ports (including power port) on the backside of the laptop...which is a very easy to access location and a neutral position...so no wrapping cables that tug on the ports....oh....and I love the Legion's GREAT matte displays.
3) Also I agree that at least one USB-A ports (for mice) and an a HDMI port is preferable for the reason stated in this video. As a right hander my preference would be to have the USB-A port on the right side of the machine if you happen to be using a wired mouse.
4) Also having a physical audio port is important. Bluetooth is certainly an alternative but I find myself frequently forgetting to re-charge my BT headphones or simply running out of battery on the headset and it's nice to have the physical port as a fall back in that case.
Cheers,
Jet
RTX is better for ML en DL because they have dedicated tensor cores. These are cores that can accelerate matrix computations. Tensorflow is an example of a library for ML and it benefits greatly from CUDA and tensor cores on RTX graphics. GTX cards don't have tensor cores but still have CUDA.
But then there are TPUs. Training a model in the cloud seems more viable
@@uwuman101 yes. But its great to be able to test locally. Also not all models have to use deep neural networks. You can solve a lot of tasks with simpler models that can easily be trained on a laptop with an 3070 for example. Its usually the vram that causes problems first, not the number of cores.
Thank you!!! Comments like this are something I love about RUclips.... I get to learn from you guys
Legion 5 with rtx 3070 or legion 5 pro with rtx 3060?, i am gonna use it in artificial intelligence and DL and i don't know if should i take the rtx 3070 over the screen of legion 5 pro?
@@omarmorcho6335 legion 5 with rtx 3070 as you will have more vram
30:58 Important thing to remember about using a laptop with linux: try to get one with an AMD gpu. Nvida GPU drivers are notoriously buggy on linux and AMD's are fully open so the difference in performance and day-to-day use can be staggering. If you only have nvidia laptops available to you then they can still work, but you're gonna suffer a performance penalty and, speaking from experience, a lot of annoying/bizarre bugs that you can't quite seem to figure out.
I'd like to add one exception- if you run ML related workloads on GPUs, don't bother with AMD. Only Nvidia supports CUDA, and the entire industry relies on CUDA.
@@Sweet-Vermouth If that's the case and you absolutely do need NVidia, make sure the laptop you are buying has the external video outputs wired to the INTEGRATED graphics, NOT the NVidia (that causes very evident and painful performance issues when connecting monitors without fully switching to the NVidia card, which in turns brings in many more problems), and make sure to run in hybrid mode: integrated graphics set as the main GPU, NVidia only for CUDA and PRIME.
Also make sure the laptop is configured so that the NVidia GPU can be turned off at will. This is not obvious.
With these three conditions done, go ahead. Else… really consider an alternative solution, because it's going to be bad.
Unless you are gaming, nvidia drivers are fine for Blender and CUDA. For gaming, AMD is better. But dual booting fixes that
I actually much prefer Nvidia on Linux, only if there’s a mux switch that is. Optimus sucks on Linux!
@@chic_luke i have a script that automatically installs nvidia drivers when plugged in charger and removes when not lmao.
Love how Jarrod has to have a laptop near him in every video, it’s the source of his power
lol as a DevOps Engineer, this is so out-of-whack for me. Our entire goal is to make the developer experience as simplified and minimal as possible, so we do things like containerize everything so you don't have to care about local environments, comprehensive CI/CD to make local testing less of an issue, etc. So all the problems you're talking about solving via good hardware are things I am paid to abstract away entirely :D Some things to note based on what was said, and what may have been not noted for time, etc:
- docker volume performance on MacOS is terrible, if you are mounting in data to containers while working with them, it sucks on MacOS. I've benchmarked a 20x speedup running on linux vs macos with the same specs. It's brutal.
- If you are using just a text editor vs IDE, especially if you're not plugin-heavy, and do have primarily remote builds/tests, you can get away with very little hardware. I primarily use chromebooks for my development, for example
- Learn your workloads. Some compilation is REALLY cache-heavy, and is super AMD friendly right now. So for people who build locally and often, and have workloads like that, those decisions will matter a lot
- I would not trust rosetta 2 for actual testing of anything right now, if you're working with x86 software, and want to do local builds/tests, don't get a new mac yet.
And if you're someone like me who edits in vim and doesn't do meaningful local builds/tests because everything is automated, just get something with the keyboard/trackpad/IO/screen/battery you like, and don't sweat the processing, ram, etc. basically anything will work. heck for the last week i was working on some personal stuff and I was using a spare system running a 2C/4T haswell CPU w/ 8GB of RAM, and I couldn't tell it apart from my 5950X main rig. Know your workload, and stick with it.
Thank you 😮
Don't show this comment my parents 😂
Hello tarfeef, can we connect? I just moved to DevOps would love to ask some questions.
What's your Twitter handle
exactly this. macs are unusable for anyone who needs to use docker volumes. + with WSL 2 windows did really catch up.
I'm a software engineer in industrial environments. I got a gaming laptop, and the main reason was the keyboard, especially the arrow keys. If you code, you are using the arrow keys constantly, and having to go on site means an external keyboard is often not an option. There are so few noon-gaming/"office" laptops these days that have decently sized arrow keys.
The GPU is nice for gaming too! The only negative tends to be battery life.
Really agree, these days people prefer small keyboard like 60% or small laptop keyboard without dedicated arrow keys and miss placed delete and ins buttons.
I hate those keyboard layout thats destroy your productivity in a time constraints.
Vim will solve this issue :)
you could have checked the lenovo thinkpad series, i have one for my college and the keyboard is justt mmmmm
@@zoovy7252 this "mmmmm" is wayy better in convincing me than someone saying "its best" XD
Which laptop did you get?
IMHO the ability to drive more than one monitor is quite important if you don't use an ultra wide external screen. Coding with 2 external monitors really help for 2 reasons:
1. You have more real estate, having an IDE, browser windows and terminals open.
2. This also helps with ergonomics as I don't have to stare down at a laptop screen which really strains your neck. This is a Godsent if you code the whole day.
Having a portable solution is great but I would hate to develop full time on only a laptop screen.
Yeah, the whole ergonomics discussion is a bit of a moot point since 95% of the time a professional developer will have his/her laptop connected to a USB-C/Thunderbolt dock that connects to an external display (or two), keyboard and mouse, with the laptop lid closed.
@@-tsvk- I keep the laptop open, it holds the chat windows / email, etc. And if I have to do a screen share, I'm not guaranteed the person I'm sharing with will have the ultrawide monitor that I have. So I have to use the lower res screen to share.
If battery is not of any concern, I think any gaming laptop will do the job really well for programming.
Why use a gaming laptop though?
They’re powerful
@@DirtyBobBojangles powerful CPU and GPU, with good thermals (hopefully). Fast refresh rates as well, and good range of ports as well
@@kumartatsat868 shutup dude.
Reason for more RAM as a software developer is containerisation. If your doing docker stuff 32Gb is a real nice to have.
Tips for the choice of the screen: take a glossy one for boosting text clarity. Anti-glare layers have a tendency to make small text look bad, catastrophic when working on code. Unfortunately, good luck finding a hight res glossy laptop with gaming capacities. And no, the new M1 laptops are not gaming laptops, very few games actually run. But I agree, the macbooks are the best developer laptops available today, and they have been for quite some time now. Too bad you cannot game on them.
The other too bad is that Linux support is still in beta, and many of my coding IDEs (apart from Visual Studio Code) run via Rosetta 2 and quite poorly at that. I would stay away from Apple Silicon Macs if you're doing cross-platform development at least for right now.
Glossy panels need a good anti-reflective screen to be any good in most environments. Only Macs usually have that.
I found vivobook pro , proart studio book lineup have high Res oled glossy screen .
There are Asus laptops with oled screens with the 5600/5800 and 3050/ti that may fit the bill for what you're looking for.
@@pkpnyt4711 OLED screens can be hit or miss depending on if the user is sensitive to PWM.
Great video! I wish I had this when I was studying. As a web developer/designer, a nice screen with good resolution and accurate colors is really important. Colors play a big role when it comes to ui and ux. Something to keep in mind.
Extremely well made and highly professional video. Josh speaks up to the point, not letting himself getting into cliches, populism, and buzz. Thanks!
The base boost and echo made it difficult to listen to, though.
I feel like OS discussion should have been first. A ton of Dev is done on cloud VMs so whilst the OS of the local machine Matters less, win vs Unix like is so different that learning the right environment for a new starter is probably one of the most important decisions to make...
And which OS do you think is superior for coding? Win or osx? I’m just a beginner and I recently upgraded my desktop and now my 2012 macbook air needs an upgrade. Unsure if I want mac or windows
@@buzzlightyearoh what are you going with? I'm a new CS student and making the decision
@@percy9228 honestly I’m thinking of buying a used m1 air for 600€ or used m1 pro for 800€ since I already have a windows machine. It’s a hard choice tho
@@buzzlightyearoh Been a windows user all my life, I've found workflow and little apps that make my windows experience tailored to me and main thing that scares me is moving over to OSx and not having that ease of workflow.
BUT deep inside I have a feeling I'll adapt and OSx will have it's own optimisations that increase my productivity and workflow. I think a change for me would be good.
Finally choosing MacOS is made easy since every RUclipsr I watch that programmes and I aspire to be is using MacOS and they all recommend it over windows, so I might as well get used to the OS because I have a feeling I'll be needing OSx for my job.
I'm getting a Macbook pro 14"
If I need windows we have parallels also
2 of my favorite youtubers are together, I love your input on the matter. As for me, I travel by my car, I walk short distances so a 17" beast is fine with my type of work, I have the Asus strix g17 with ryzen 5900hx and RTX 3070 for Cybersecurity VMs, graphic design and gaming and I love it.
Thanks for the collaboration 😀 😊 🙏
I got the Acer Swift X and I'm really pleased with it!
I got it a 100w usb c charger, a usb-c dongle for extra monitors so I could use my 2 monitors at work / home, and I always carry a wireless keyboard and mouse with me (65% Asus Falchion).
Pretty light and portable.
The only downsides are - 1. Acer's shitty restricted bios (wouldn't let you even turn on basic stuff like the virtualization options, and the processor supports it)
2. It came with a lot of bloatware. I had to uninstall and wipe the drive clean completely. And then it wouldn't let me install Windows anywhere besides the OEM drive.
Oh, and I've switched the wireless module with an Intel one, because it wasn't reliable
have you managed to turn on virtualization yet? ill have to reconsider if its actually not something you can do
This is one of the best videos I have seen in a while regarding laptops for programming. I am a Unity programmer and I face a lot of heating, and battery issues in many mid range laptops. Really informative video. Great job!
Which laptop did you choose for Unity? I think between the Legion Legion 5 pro and the Asus G14
Just a quick note, I am typing this on a Macbook Pro 14 (with M1 Pro) and it does have 32GB of RAM, so this configuration is possible. I think you do need the M1 MAX if you need 64GB, though. Great overview as always, Josh! Thanks for getting this collab together you two!
Professional developer here. I agree with some and disagree with other bits of this advice. Regardless it's a very useful discussion to have because a lot of developers start out as struggling uni students on a budget.
Specific laptops: I can't believe the Lenovo Ideapad and Yoga got a plug and the base Legions didn't. Legion 5 laptops are amazing and were my pick for school laptops for my kids. See below about why I would avoid Mac.
Storage: I'd like to see as much storage as possible. 1TB isn't much if you're going to run VMs, so if you can't afford larger a boot SSD and a spinning disk isn't a bad combo if you can handle long initial wait times.
Screen: I prefer 1920x1080 to higher resolutions on a laptop since it's not going to get bigger than 17 inches anyway. Sure you can see the pixels if you look for them but in regular use it just blends in and it's easy to get use to. 4K panels have way too many compromises at the moment and cost way too much. 1440p can be awkward as pointed out. A nice FullHD screen with a good refresh rate is versatile because you can code, game and even get decent colour gamut and accuracy for photo editing so makes for a good all round computer.
Also only touched on but don't forget connectivity for a second and perhaps even a third monitor, not just meetings. (Beyond 2 or 3 screens you get diminishing returns depending on you use them.) 2 screens is an absolute must have for debugging. 1 screen runs the software you're writing and the second lets you step through and debug the code. The 3rd optional screen can be there for refering to the API etc.
Keyboard and trackpad: Definitely important, especially on a commute so get a machine with good ergonomics that's durable. But unless you're going to be coding on the go, an external keyboard and mouse will save a lot of aggravation and possibly prolong your life as a coder by putting back issues like RSI to the tail end of your career. Mechanical keyboards are overrated. I type just as quickly on a good membrane keyboard and typing speed isn't the limiting factor when you're coding anyway. I love the old Microsoft Media Pro keyboards, despite the lack of backlighting. There are going to be times when you have to use the trackpad so even if you have an external mouse a bad trackpad is a real distraction and total buzzkill so don't get a laptop with a cheap trackpad.
New Mac: If you're developing for Apple software then Mac is your only choice. But sorry but if you're not able to run Windows you're limiting the range of jobs you can take and that's not a good idea for any developer. The closed Apple ecosystem and tight control are the antithesis of what a developer needs.
Network: Get a laptop that at least does WIFI ac connectivity. Almost all new ones should but if you're buying second hand a laptop that doesn't do 5GHz won't be able to connect on some networks without an unwieldy dongle that uses a usb port. Also make sure it does bluetooth unless you want another port blocked with a bluetooth dongle. Bluetooth mice can be particularly good as good ones only sip battery and last ages.
Sound: Good sound and decent volume is important for those Zoom meetings even if the software you're developing doesn't have a sound component. Video content is also fatiguing without decent sound. It isn't difficult to improve sound if laptop sound is bad but any portable option is going to be a hassle with it's own battery to charge, and if line out is no good you're going to use yet another usb port. and spending more money if your line out is not great
A good gaming laptop will check a lot of the boxes....with perhaps the exception of the battery.
The Mac stuff is quite ridiculous. MacOS isn't an impediment to development. Quite the contrary. Being Unix based has massive advantages for hitting the most platforms. Most server development is now Unix based. iOS, Web and even Android development are better on M1 arm than x86 due to superior tooling and performance.
Unless you are using the msft stack it's definitely better to be on a Mac for the majority of development tasks. The silicon valley trend is definitely leaning away from msft environments. Over 90% of developers at my product development firm working with tech giants and unicorns are on Macs for good reason.
I use a legion 7i at home because I want to game and prefer windows but I have to admit the 14" M1 Pro would easily be the winner for development.
For the gaming stuff, turn off gaming mode (should be in most gaming laptops) and just use integrated. Pretty good battery life there.
1TB SSD is enough for some VMs, but the more you have, the more you need for sure.
I love your response. I am a new student and would like your recommendation on a computer plz
This was an amazing collab! Loved the format and loved listening to Josh, super informative video as someone who is in the market for a laptop to go to Uni to learn to code! Would love to see more of you two together!
Have you chosen a uni yet and if so which one
Hey guys love what your doing and keep up the good vids
Most programming work is typing in your code, looking over your code, and even run your backend servers. So yes, good core count cpu is good, however, high resolution screen, good keyboard (no numpad) and glass trackpad are elements that i find useful. My 8 year old Lenovo thinkpad still rocks and can run ant in about the same time as my desktop.
Yeah, I was kind of dying inside when he mentioned macbook air as low end suggestion, when you can have used thinkpad t420/x220 with keyboard of dreams that will never come true again :/
I have been using MSI GS63 since 3 years, I installed 32 GB RAM on that machine, with 2.5 GB SSD, and it has an i7-8750 with an RTX 2060 GPU. This laptop is great, it looks and feels awesome, 144 Hz makes it much smoother than any laptop I had before and the CPU and GPU is very adequate. It gets a bit hot and loud.
I am a scientist that tries to apply deep learning to retinal neural model to emulate vision for future protheses. Having a GPU cuts training and testing different network architecture from about a week to a few hours. I could copy my code and run it on the university servers but that usually it is such a pain to ask for permission, gettime time allocation, installing all the packages, getting admin access for some packages I need... So I ended up just using the laptop. Also a lot of the math behind some computational kernel either use intel optimized MKL libraries or CUDA libraries which makes Intel + Nvidia combo a better choice for that specific type of workload (there are workaround to get AMD to use MKL, and they have an alternative for CuDNN like ROCm, but when you really don't want another layer of complexity with tool compatibitly a top of ML problems)
I would love to see how Apple evolves their Macs in the future, having unified memory would be amazing and can help with larger deep learning models which can fill the entire GPU VRAM. But Apple needs to set up their game with software compatibility and driver support for deep learning model. But for now i really want to see what Intel can do with Alderlake and raptorlake along with Nvidia Lovelace. Intel's GPU can also be interesting for deep learning because Intel has been working on Unifying programming between CPU, GPU, and FPGA but it needs to be proven.
Technically the RTX GPU has built-in Tensor cores that can speed up machine learning applications. In practice, a 2060 GPU should be on par with GTX 1080ti performance in deep learning so RTX GPU it is punching above its class in gaming. I am not aware of any use for RT cores for anything other than rendering and gaming.
Great information. How about new Mac M1? Will it be good for it?
Great info!
Thanks
I am looking for a gpu laptop for computer vision and robotics using linux, I was planning to get a 3070 laptop and upgrade to 32gb ram.
Do you think it's really necessary or could a 3060 laptop be a good fit? I say this because of the 2 extra vram to train models, because I know that long process to get server access and all you mention.
Thanks!
@@robertomendivilc7780 It really depends on how big your network, I would say that the extra 2 GB memory might be worth but you can reduce the memory consumption by tuning batch size. However, you need to make sure that their is proper Linux support for the laptop. Unfortunatly most laptops don't have full Linux support, which means that some stuff might not work properly (webcams, trackpads, brightess adjustment, keyboard lighting ...)
@@NizarElZarif Thank you for the answer!
I really appreciate it.
I am between the asus tuf dash 15" 2022 3070 (i7 12th and ddr5) or Hp Omen 16" 2021 (i7 11th ddr4) 3070.
Which one would you choose, assuming both works on linux properly ( at least i've seen reviews of HP omen and they even use Egpus enclosures with thunderbolt 4 for DL projects and linux)
Could the ddr5 increassed speed be worth it for training?
I am like 60/40 over HP omen due to 16" for thermal aspects and better looking design
@@robertomendivilc7780 I haven't tested either of these laptops, but it seems that the Omen has a slightly higher TGP GPU (105 watt vs 115 watts) which means that it slightly better in gaming and training DL, while the 12th gen i7 has a CPU advantage whihc can be helpful in CPU heavy application (like preproceessing datasets or running large python codes which tends to be single threaded) and CPU heavy games. I don't think DDR5 will matter much right now.
Since the OMEN is probably cheaper since it is last years model I think the Omen would be a better choice, espically since i hear it is much quieter and better cooling.
Suggestion: Jarrod, an in depth review of what performs best for AI, ML and Data professionals, would be extremely welcome. This video is a great start!
Any luck for finding a suitable laptop?
Jarrod (and Josh) -- what a smart topic with insightful observations. Every developer should listen to this... especially for Josh's insights into the corporate environment (i.e., modelling in meetings, downloading production environments, and needing a HDMI cable :) in conference rooms). Some really good observations here. Keep this going.
Great video! We need more like these. Precise and complete. No need to go to other videos searching for unanswered questions
It's nice to get another perspective that isn't just predominantly about video rendering.
NGL ThinkPads are technically one of the best programming laptops tbh
(Best keyboards, reasonably good displays, options of both ryzen and Intel, and also superb linux support)
thonkpad
@@JarrodsTech discord moment kekw
I love my Asus G14. Got an 8 core 16 thread Ryzen, and even a discreet GPU, albeat a GTX 1650, for 800 dollars, and paid like 60 dollars to upgrade the RAM to 24 GB. amazing machine that will last for years
Hey, are you using Linux on it? I'm thinking about buying it but I'm concerned with Linux support
Same. I have the exact version as you and I also upgraded the RAM to 24gb! It's a nice PC but I'm disappointed with the battery life. Way lower than I expected
I'm a coder and for the most part agree with the fellas in this video, but for me portability is super important, so my two recommendations are the 14 inch Macbook Pro, and the HP Dev One. The HP one in particular looks very impressive for the price.
if price isn't really an issue macbook pro 14 or HP? Need a new laptop for starting a CS Major
@@percy9228 Don't know about the HP one, but the Macbook pro 14 is awesome, also if you get an iPad for writing down stuff and doing your homework (Like I do, and it's a big step up from pen and paper), you can put them side by side and have a second display(side car), which is huge, also all the transferring from iPad to Mac (and iPhone if you have) is very fast.
I am finishing my first year as a CS student, and I have the iPad, getting the 14 inch Macbook pro for the next year.
Goodluck!
@@kobi2024 it's decided I will buy the 14" Macbook Pro, now all I need to decide on is if I will buy an Ipad, really considering just getting a pen tablet that I can attach to the laptop because the cost of the Ipad is SO MUCH!
For one IPad, I could buy 3 4k Dell 27" monitors!!!!!
is Ipad that useful? which Ipad have you got?
Mackbook pro means? M1 or m2 chip
If you are into signal processing, RTX / tensor cores will be something nice to have.
For my used case, 2TB Gen4 NVMe and 32GB RAM is a minimum (and easily reaches 128GB)
1080P@60Hz is enough for me, but the viewing angle is has to be wide.
Keyboard has to be external, unless its a Thinkpad Workstation
does laptops with more than 128GB of ram exists? honestly idk
@@dinithaw 64GB or 128GB exists, I don't know any that have more
@Sandeepan HAHA Maybe Super expensive that i cannot afford LOL
If you're doing light ML/DL, the RT cores don't do anything, but the Tensor cores help a lot with that. RTX cards are vastly better at that kind of workload. If I remember my benchmarks correctly a 2060 is much faster than a 1080 ti for that reason.
Are they not the same cores? I thought Ray tracing was performed on tensor cores?
@@nikilragav As I understand it they are separate
My problem is that I don't know what I want to do with the computer. I want to try different things until I find something that sticks. So I need the best or something capable of handling everything or almost everything. Programming, coding, video editing, an I.T specialist, working from home, digital security, etc, etc. They always say: "it depends on what you will be using it for." My problem is: What if you don't know what you want to use it for?!?!?
The rtx is better for ML & DL because of the tensor cores
Tryed that using 1080 ti vs 2080 Desktop Version in college
Ooh good point, any specific applications you can mention that support? It's our area of expertise apparently!
@@JarrodsTech i think it's supported on the cuda tool kit level / driver level because you install it and the tensorflow library just supports it
IF you're in school watch out for the M1 mac. You may have issues with local libraries and instructions in school. Rosetta isn't good enough to fully replace an x86 env when lectures were not made for non x86 machines. Such as ARM.
can you not use parallels?
@@percy9228 it's not as good as native OS support. The Intel macs got around this with bootcamp.
@@-Good4Y0u not as good meaning performance? or not as good as it doesn't fully work with all the programmes?
If performance is the bottleneck than an m1 pro chip would help heaps and bounds.
On the topic of operating systems. From my experience WSL is the perfect middle ground for using windows and linux without having to use VMs.
That's the worst thing to ever exist. Learn linux, honestly.
@@ronniebasak96 it's literally Linux.
There's one thing you may have omitted here regarding CPU choice, ARM vs x64 in particular. If you're compiling code for x64, and the development environment doesn't do crosscompiling, you're going to have very slow compile times when e.g. running x64 Docker on ARM macOS. An no, Docker on macOS ARM does not support Rosetta. We're talking like 5 to 100x compile times when compared to native compiling. Which is exactly why I went with Ryzen based laptop for programming.
Also basically any x64 VM on ARM is going to be hell. Debugging an x64 VM on macOS? VERY slow.
Me who uses Ryzen for everything because screw intel: I am happy I made the right choice XD
Using Zephyrus G15 for coding work. Its really good for the job. Great display, keyboard and trackpad. As a plus point I don't have to open my cam in office meetings since it doesn't have one 🤷🏼
And I can play games occasionally since the internals are good.
is the battery life good? also which GPU? RTX 3060 or GTX series?
@@11hitmanDagenius 6-8 hrs on 1440p 165 hz 50% brightness and 8-10+ hrs on 1080p 60hz. Best battery life you could get rn on a gaming laptop I say. I have 5800HS/3060 variant. I don't think we have 3070/3080 or 3050/ti available in India. Only 3060 is available for 140k. 150k for 5900HS.
How's the quality of your G15 after a year? Any noticeable breaks, chips, wear and tear, QC issues etc...?
@@BlacK201100 I use my laptop as a desktop replacement and it leaves my stand at the table once a week mostly. Hence i am not the person to ask for chips/breaks. Although I use it almost everyday and there are no issues till now happened on itself without me breaking it. Fyi - it has been 2+ yrs for me not one. I have the 2021 model. Although I won't recommend 2023 model since it has intel cpu and battery life would take significant hit. Look for other premium amd laptops for battery life.
Jarrod, u & Josh have covered lot of problems programmers can face, & how to lower their impact on writing codes. Thanks y'all
For DL models, higher CUDA cores and higher VRAM is always better option. The Tensor cores helps while using Tensorflow. So, yes, the RTX series cards are better.
This is one of the most nerdy and enjoyable videos I've seen in a long time. Great job.
If you're doing any kind of close to hardware or kernel level system programming DO NOT get the MacBook. MacOS don't have posix compatible system-calls and the biggest problem is the architecture which is ARM and not x86_64. There are more toolchains and compiler options in x86 not to mention you also get rid of the hassle of cross compiling for 2 architectures. Always get a x86 laptop.
Damn bro it's been a wild ride. When I first started watching you in 2018 I remembered you got like under 100k subs? And now I'm back in 2022 and you got 500k. Congrats!
Thanks!
RAM is definitely a big thing. 16 is minimum to get things running without lagging but 32 would be better
why do you suggest 16 or more ? what do you program ?
@@yohan1087 full stack. running IDE, webserver, compiler, chrome, DB.
@@yohan1087 IDES take a lot of resources to run and if you compile as well that even more, plus if you used any modern operating systems that is breeding edge than 8 gbs of ram will barely run anything when you doing heavy taskes
@@yohan1087 Most JetBrains IDE's use up RAM. Even if you stick to VS Code, expect around 1-2 gigs for dev server, 2-3 for the base OS and 2 for Chrome. You've already maxed out 8 gigs at this point barring other processes. 16 is almost a necessity at this point.
Nice to see you guys together. Having watched you guys I bought the omen 15. Got it second hand and whoops got the terrible screen 300 nits and low quality colour. But the price was well worth it. So gonna keep watching for thr next best buy.
Welcome to Aus
Two very experienced reviewers together in one video .. woooow .. I follow both of you and trust both of you and I'm happy to see you together here. Thank you from LIBYA
I was literally finding for video with this type of information and exactly this one is just amazing. This helped me for making better decision. Thanks a lot man!(both of you) ❤️
Since you're talking about which laptop is good in programming, let me tell you about what happened to me a week ago (btw, it has something to do with the topic). Last month, I've started a course in C programming, and the machine that I started with, was a 7+ year old Toshiba Satellite P50-B, which had an Intel Core i7-4700HQ CPU (4C/8T), 8 GB of DDR3L RAM (1600 MHz), 1 TB SATA SSD (initially, it had a 1 TB HDD) and an AMD Radeon R9 M265X graphics. Since I was required to use Linux for to write and compile the code, I installed Ubuntu on a VM and the performance was passable (I had a lot of sluggish animations, since this machine is old). But last week, the matrix of the screen got broken, and since my tasks (online education, because I'm a student in a university + this programming course) requires to use two screens at the same time, getting a new laptop was urgent. And because my birthday was close, I got myself an HP Pavilion 15 (eh-1060-nu), which has an AMD Ryzen 5 5500U CPU (6C/12T, Zen 2) with an integrated Radeon Vega 7 GPU, 8 GB of DDR4 RAM (3200 MHz, and in dual channel mode, which I'm planning to upgrade soon to 16 GB) and a 512 GB NVMe SSD, and so far, it's a great machine. Yes, I got it in the worst time possible (due to the release of new laptops with the latest generation of CPUs), but as I said, I needed a new one immediately. Now, my Ubuntu VM runs better than my old one, the design and features are good for the price, but there's one drawback, and it's on the audio side. The DAC on this laptop sucks (it lacks bass and depth), so I recommend to get an external adapter, if you want great audio while having your wired headphones connected.
One benefit to the newest machines is the various flavors of USB-C offer access to high-speed external storage. Run your VMs, DBs etc on an external SSD.
Didn't understand a thing, just watched to support Jarrod for covering topics outside of gaming.
Cheers for the constantly evolving content.
I have a i5 9400H, trust me, it's gonna last till 2025 easily. What you need is a fast SSD for coding and RAM. Not processor. I got 16GB RAM and 1.5 TB of SSD. I ran out of both. CPU never is an issue
Intel U series and P series can handle the coding needs or should someone buy only H series intel with i5?
The greatest upgrade that you can do as a software engineer is your own problem solving ability. Modern computers are fast enough to process everything you planned within a fraction of time you took for lining things up
The difference between the GTX and RTX GPUs are the tensor cores found in the latter. These cores are specialized for machine learning applications because they can do more computations (e.g., matrix algebra, AI inference) per cycle.
Can someone help me choose between these 2 laptops?
I'm currently a university student enrolled for an IT degree. And I'm planning to use this laptop for at least 4 or 5 years.
I'm mainly going to use them for software development (Visual studio, android studio etc)
And do some Photoshop work on the side as well.
Lenovo Ideapad slim 5 pro
14" IPS display 2.2K resolution
Ryzen 5600U
Integrated AMD Radeon Vega 7 graphics
16 GB RAM
512 GB SSD
56 Wh battery
ASUS Vivobook 15 M513
15.6 OLED display with full HD resolution
Ryzen 5500U
Integrated AMD Radeon Vega 7 graphics
16 GB RAM
512 GB SSD + HDD
42 Wh battery
(Does upgrading to Ryzen 5700U worth it?)
Has anyone used a Vivobook?
Please help me choose.
Having a bunch of Docker containers running, or even virtual machines, along with some form of IDE, browser, or whatever, can really fill up memory fast. Unless the memory is upgradeable, I really think 32GB is good for future proofing.
Agree
Totally agree 32Gb is the sweet spot right now
Thanks! This was very comprehensive and it's hard to find reviews not just about gaming performance
I like gaming laptops for programming , i got 17 inch asus rog with 3 disks , plenty of memory . Big screen is always better with programming . full num pad is perfect also for programming . Thicker machines never get hot , like MSI Titan , Asus Rog , Clevo . If you have one of those you are pretty good to go .
I liked this video in the first 3 seconds of playing! Very very informative video! Well done guys!
I chose a 2cm thick game laptop, just so that the CPU is never terminal throttled.
The models with a 3060+ usually have a shared heatpipe that connects the CPU and GPU so you have some extra cooling performance available when your not using the GPU.
Anything below 2cm or with a less GPU, in general, terminal throttle at some point, even with CPU-only tasks.
Exceptions are below 15watt chips that are TDP limited and high-end laptops that have a full vapor chamber.
Yep. In fact, I wish 1"/2.5 cm thick laptops become the norm once again.
Sick of laptops being too hot, or thermal throttling, or fans being too loud.
Thank you for your videos, bro!!! After seeing a couple of them I bought Legion 7 last summer. So far it seems perfect all-in-one choice. Only alternative I saw was Dell/Alienware almost twice the price!
Love these type of your videos.
My Thinkpad x1 carbon 9 runs Arch with sway perfectly. They even upload their bios updates to LVFS which makes updating it so much easier. It's just sad that they didn't ship it with a Zen 3 U series CPU
Perfect laptop for me would be an Apple MB Pro 14, M1 Pro with 32GB ram and bootcamp so I can daily Linux and boot osx if I want. Can run Windows vm.
if not for the MacOs I would probably buy a Macbook air with M1, but MacOs for me personally is just a no option, I`m a programmer myself and its just pain when system limits your performance and capability
Well, you got parallels 18 win11 that actually comes very close to native Mac os performance and if you run Linux, it actually score within 1-2% of Mac os performance
as a SQL/Tableau Dev I HIGHLY recommend Ryzen 7 5000 or 6000 / i7 12th gen /or i5 12th gen its a HUGE improvement. Minimum 16GB RAM 16-24 is ideal, 32GB is a bonus never maxed my 32 out.. but have hit 65% utilizations. 10-12 cores... once again is a godsend. I can run spotify, 10+ browser windows, 6+ applications, Tableau etc and never hit an issue. Spend the ~1200-1300 bucks trust me.
Two of one of my favorite youtubers in a collab. Josh introduced me to Lenovo and you introduced me to the Legion line and both yall expanded my knowledge a lot with laptops. I appreciate that and also good vid.
i'm a dev too and i can say for short if ppl don't wanna watch:
if you're a mobile dev get something with huge ammounts of ram because android studio and mobile development is really ram heavy
if you just do web dev and/or dektop things anything "moddern" will work
if you're a data scientist/analyst get something with more raw horse power on CPU
note that GPUs are not needed for programming, if you like to game get a desktop, it will do wonders for you and i have learned to not mix gaming with work, it gets you more focused and way less distractions
about the above i will give one very specific reason that you probably don't wanna game on a laptop (you still can, it's fine if you do but i will put some points that led me away from it):
1 - it gets hot, really hot depending on the machine
2 - you need external devices (mouse, keyboard if you don't wanna burn your hands, monitor screen for proper use of GPU power)
3 - all laptops comes with "mobile" versions of the parts so a 3080 on a laptop is worse than a 3080 on a desktop
4 - a part from the parts being already downgraded versions, most laptop chargers are "weak" for what they offer and gpu end up being way under the right voltage to run properly, so they tune it down even more ( i had some friends complain about powerful laptops not being able to even keep their battery lives after a little bit of time)
Replicating a production environment for debug and testing was always my need. Lots of storage (ie TB) and VMware required a lot of memory to be usable. I always had 16GB min in my laptops. I didn't do graphics programming, so GPU's were less important and just ran the battery down when traveling. The machine requirements varied over the years so picking the "perfect" laptop for programming is somewhat of a wild goose chase.
OMG, what a cool crossover! i'm so happy to see two of my favorite youtubers on screen together!!
Thanks for this video! I'm a programming student and my current laptop was hitting it's limits( i've being trying to limit my usage and adapt but i can't do that anymore) so i've being looking up nice laptops i could buy and ngl i got very confused cuz i see many different recommendations some say this laptop is good some say it's bad i was very confused 😅. This video and your review videos were really just.. right to the point i like them so much Thanks!!
6800u with an OLED 1080p 400+ nits display
is gonna be the best one for this year,
configure the CPU to 10-15w and you're good to go for hours,
and u can game on it...
Thumbs up so people will know
For software development if you run 3 or more vms for testing than 64GB minimum, you can squeak by with 32GB.
Depends what you do in the VMs I guess, 32gb was enough for me when I was doing pentesting but burp suite is a Java app that eats all the memory you give it lol
In my case of Python/JS microservices on Kubernetes I have a lot of spread load. The microservices do 20-30% of CPU load on like 8-core Ryzen 1700. The IDE, browser with few tabs and some other apps. This isn't really single threaded (like having a core with 100% load) so moar cores is better, don't have to be bleeding edge high clocks one. 16GB of RAM is ok-ish but 32GB is better if Virtualbox has to be used alongside it. 1TB SSD just so docker won't bicker about little storage space, doesn't have to be fast but it would be really good if it's good at handling random I/O and multiple small files. OS - Linux only currently. Kubernetes could be setup on Windows like on WSL2 or on macOS likely but the orchestration we have wasn't made with that in mind. It's "just works" but for Linux. And when doing some electronics stuff as a hobby UARTs are also more handy on Linux.
Wow, thanks Piotr. What laptop do you use?
@@anirbanc999 Lenovo Ideapad with 4800U, but since long time as we switched to remote work I just use a separate Linux install on my desktop.
Been looking forward to this for a while 💪
Please in your future reviews do include a database benchmark in your productivity section 🖥
I don't think you know how long I was waiting for this video... thanks so much Jarrod!
Welcome back to Australia Josh. I’d like to see some Australian specific recommendations on your channel, especially comparing how much better value PCs are compared to macs here, and we don’t get Amazon discounts here.
Thank you for inviting such a smart gentleman.. this video is all i needed
Subscribed!
Disagree on the single vs multithreaded performance take, IMO multithreaded performance is the key. Code compilation basically scales linearly with the number of cores you have. Not only that, but you are going to be running an IDE, a web browser, compiling code, running containers all the time - all of these take up significant amounts of CPU time so you really should be going for a 6+ core CPU nowadays.
New RTX GPUs have Tensor Cores, helpful for INT8 stuff...
Ray Tracing is very useful for Game developers as it is coming in more games game devs can implement ray tracing and test it so probably rtx is the way to go
I just wish it was done in a realistic way.
Realistic as in, players could play their game reliably at 60+ frames 1080p, with *budget* laptop GPUs.
Right now it's all just a benefit for 3D artists and little to no benefit for the end users (i.e. players).
@@s2korpionic some good devs have optimized their games like that wish there were more devs like that rather then the likes of cd projcket red
@@s2korpionic raytracing is a very expensive technique compute wise, we'll need Lovelace or her successor to really get full RT on a xx50 mobile.
A decade ago it was unthinkable to do ray tracing in real time
I use an Acer Spin 713 Chromebook as my travel laptop. It replaced an Acer C740 Chromebook. Being able to run Linux on these is great, and the battery life is fantastic. I've used these for expended periods without Internet access.
The Spin 713 has USB-C charging, an HDMI port, and a USB-A port, The 3:2 screen has plenty of real estate for code and tools. The only thing it does not have is a GPU, but I don't need that in my use case.
One thing that was not touched on is monitor support (and more number of rather than type or specs). Having another display or two is useful at times. I had a work laptop that supported 4 displays which was great. That was a portable workstation and was quite heavy.
Another advantage for USB-C charging is the ability to use an external battery, but that does add weight.
As with any computer you need a good motherboard specially for power delivery, robust cooling, rigid chasis. Then all the speed and power you can get. On battery an ultrabook won't last longer than a powerful machine if you are stepping on it. Only scenario an xps like would do better than a leopard like is if you want to just stare at the code 7 hours and run it for at most 15 minutes on battery.
I've been 12 year in sofrware development. Working with .Net, Node.js, React, React Native. How the hack can someone recommend 13/14 inch laptop for a developer?
Any gaming laptop (even entry-level ones) is generally overpowered for strictly programming purposes. Game development sure will need higher end as they invlove graphics and rigging but for the most part of web development, even an old laptop that runs Win7 can do the job lol. If you have a decent modern gaming laptop, you're pretty much all set for everything regardless of what you do with the computer (programming, gaming, content creation, etc).
TLDR: Most software development requires far less than gaming and benchmarking for gaming is more complex to be honest.
Signed,
Software Engineer
This is such an informative video. Not just for programmers. But in general as well...
Very nice explaination, thank you very much Jarrod and Josh 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
another great collab, cheers to you both amazing content creators
"it works?"
"well you gotta plug another keyboard"
"perfect."
Great video, I use Lenovo ThinkPad it's old but work like gems.
Wow, impressive background Josh! Well Done!
The Macbook Air M1 base model is the cheapest ultrabook compared to its competitor's ultrabook, at least in the country where I live, like New XPS, New Thinkpads were more expensive than Air M1
same
Zenbook oled closest windows alternative
@@jame5game5 Zenbook 13 base model price is close to M1 Air base model, but you're right
Great video, super informative, especially as I'm starting a new programming education soon!
Just 1 suggestion Jarod. Say less "I guess" after Josh finishes with his comments. It makes you look unsure about your knowledge, which could make people take you less serious.
Thanks to both of you!
I graduated with a bachelor's in CS with a $150 Acer r 11 with linux installed (not dual boot or chroot, but fully replaced original operating system with linux as I only had 32gb). Galliumos in specific though now I use peppermintos on it.
8 GB is just barely enough for me as a front-end developer. Running local dev servers along with VScode and all its fancy extensions that make my life easy and having figma or zeplin tabs open at the same time all of that just ends up adding up and I find my memory usage at 90% in no time. So 16 GB is definitely my recommended minimum.
One thing I haven't tried is to use HW acceleration for chrome, that might decrease ram usage when opening designs and allocate it on the GPU memory instead, or would it? idk tbh. My current laptop GPU is trash tbh so I didn't bother trying that.
8gb is now the minimum for just browsing
It was really nice to see laptops for programmer video, few months back i was looking for video of this kind but it find any worthy video, did some research and found that acer aspire 7, as sometimes i do some esports gaming too.
Hi Jarrod! Thanks a lot for the recommendations!
Yo, will a HP Victus be a good choice? I mean, quality is good, nice Cpu 15 inch screen and a gpu for some other tasks and making video games.
Your first question should be: Are you a webdeveloper and care about aesthetics? Go with Apple. Are you developing for some specific system? Go with that system (so IOS/MacOS -> Mac, Windows Games -> Windows, etc.). If not, you pretty much should use something that runs linux.
Glad to help.
A big thanks to you both for this video!