the drivers license drama in retrospect
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 янв 2022
- the drivers license drama in retrospect
Hey everyone welcome back to my second channel! Last week on stream we looked back on the drivers license drama in light of the song’s one year anniversary and some new updates that came from Joshua Bassett’s new single release “Crisis” and his recent interview with Zach Sang!
SO it’s been a year since olivia rodrigo dropped drivers license and went mega viral before dropping her hit album Sour. I’m sure at this point we all know the song was about her ex boyfriend and High School Musical: The Musical co-star Joshua Basset moving on from her to ex-Disney star Sabrina Carpenter. The hype around the song resulted in a swarm of new Olivia fans attacking Joshua and Sabrina on every social media platform possible and I thought the drama surrounding the song that happened a year ago in combination with the recent info made for a good jumping-off point to talk about how different the responsibilities of artists and fans have become in light of social media compared to ten years ago.
For most of the past year, Joshua hasn’t really said much about the situation which is definitely a different response than what we’re used to when it comes to celebrity ex’s writing songs about each other. Instead of capitalizing off everyone watching his next move he opted to release an ep that didn’t have anything to do with Olivia, and opted not to say too much about her until recently when he dropped his song Crisis and did an interview with Zach Sang. Since then a lot of people online have changed their tune a bit and turned on Olivia in light of her not saying anything to her fans about attacking Sabrina and Joshua back last January SOO i thought it’d be an interesting discussion to have on artist responsibility and how the proximity of fans to their idols and other celebrities has completely changed the consequences of writing a song about someone and making it easy for your fans to figure out who it’s about.
Really curious to know what you guys think about the situation so feel free to share below! Also wanted to thank you guys so much for 16k on here and for the support on the xobrooklynne video, was not expecting that at all so thank you so much! I’m still pretty rusty at live-streaming commentary and was sick during this stream but I’m aiming to get better at this the more I do it so thanks for bearing with me in the meantime LOL, feel free to drop stream topic suggestions down below and if you liked the video def give it a like and subscribe to the channel it really helps me out!! hope you enjoyed and i’ll see you in the next one :)))
// Socials~*~*~*
☞ Follow Me! IG: caseyaonso
☞ Tweet me! Twitter: caseyaonso
☞ Spotify: caseyaonso
☞ Subscribe!!
// E D I T I N G
BlurriosHut and myself:)
// Other videos
xobrooklynne pulled off the biggest troll in tik tok history →
• xobrooklynne pulled of...
// Other video from my main channel you might like!
exploring the unhinged history of twinfluencers →
• exploring the unhinged...
hustle culture is an absolute nightmare →
• hustle culture is an a...
tik tok made "i'm not like other girls" trendy again... great →
• tik tok made "i'm not ...
netflix turned our worst wattpad nightmare into a movie... →
• netflix turned our wor...
a definitive ranking of influencer scams →
• a definitive ranking o...
exploring the world of toxic ships →
• exploring the world of...
what happens to youtubers after they "expire?" →
• what happens to youtub...
definitively ranking the crimes of matthew morrison →
• definitively ranking t...
tik tokers made a kidz bop version of love island... →
• tik tokers made a kidz...
the return of wattpad's greatest disaster… (after we collided) →
• the return of wattpad'...
love island US is a train wreck i cant look away from →
• love island US is a tr...
the tik tok POV community is a disaster →
• the tik tok POV commun...
exploring the world of youtuber scams →
• exploring the world of...
let’s explore the NEW worst family channel on youtube →
• let’s explore the NEW ... 
Хобби
NEW VIDEO looking at the hype house’s netflix series is up on my second channel go check it out!! t.co/tUKlakLpVo
you can watch these live at www.twitch.tv/caseyaonso and just wanted to thank yall sm for the support so far! I'm still really new to livestreaming commentary so there's a big learning curve but I'm really excited to make more vids for this channel :) if you've got a topic you think would be fun to look into def drop them in the comments below and I'll check em out!
Where is the third property brother stream I have been waiting years for
I don’t like Olivia she seams to steal samples from other artists without crediting them then when she get caught she add there names She literally looks like the typical mean girl from every movie and if you see Olivia or Sabrina I would likely say Olivia would have attuned of someone got the fame to there head not good thing but Sabrina would be a lot nicer
i'm starting to think that maayyybeee becoming deeply invested in random people's drama isn't healthy for anyone
agreed! i think the normalization of the involvement fans have in the lives of the people they idolize has just reached insane extremes lmao
I can’t believe this is something that has to be said.
@@marquinator92 the vid literally is saying that olivia is at least partly responsible for her fans actions, we all agree about that lmao
@@marquinator92 it’s literally her first album💀 and tbh the songs are relatable (personally I didn’t care much about the drama) so I don’t mind what they’re over
@@marquinator92 brutal hope ur ok and jealousy weren’t about the love triangle tho. If you think abt it 3/11 tracks isn’t bad considering it’s her first album and it’s common for artists to write entire breakup albums. I’m sure she will diversify with her future albums. I feel like we can’t judge her ‘catalog’ just because it’s so small right now.
she had like 5 songs about him in the top 40 this year i think in my opinion he had every right to respond w his own song lol
i think it makes him look better that he didn’t. ye had the right but he took the high road
@@andreaf8404 yes plus, i believe he said so himself on the Zach Sang interview, if he tried to put out these songs when he wrote them (more than six months ago) Olivia's fans easily could've put them down/boycotted them invalidating his feelings and experiences
all of sour debuted in the top 40, eight songs of which are about heartbreak.
y’all do realize that the majority of Sour were songs that Olivia had already written, right? The only 3 that seem to actually be about Joshua were Traitor, Drivers License, and Deja Vu
There still were the songs right. Its not like having 3 songs so popular is not that big of a deal
im gonna be honest, josh went through it in 2021, got recieved de@th threats daily, had a heart septic shock/heart attack with a 30% chance of survival due to stress from the threats, was pressured to come out as queer due to an interview, opened up/came to terms with his SA story. and when he did put out crisis because he was finally comfortable with sharing his side people said be was "gaslighting and trying to be the victim". all in just 1 year. poor guy honestly.
WHAT
That's crazy
Exactly.
Honestly i don't get how people get so invested in some random strangers love life to the point of sending malicious threats to the people involved. Just let them profit off their own heartbreak and enjoy their music damn
the people saying he's lying abt the SA story cause they like Olivia's music is insane-
This was interesting, I don't think artists are responsible for their feral fans but it wouldn't hurt to ask them not to bully. I don't know if it would make any difference to those unhinged enough to send threats
yea i agree, i feel like to an extent even putting out a “dont send hate” message is just more for optics than anything because i think anyone already deciding to send death threats isnt really the type to be like oh true! i wont then in that case! its just a tricky situation in general
its like if your friend was getting insulted and you just said “ignore them” or stayed silent. i feel like among celebrities it is or needs to be a bigger choice to be on someone’s side or in their corner, bc their feral fans are jumping to conclusions otherwise.
i agree! its not her fault, but she should have atlesst put out a little message that she didn’t appreciate ppl spreading hate on her behalf
@@darcy325 then who's fault is it
@@mohamedabdi801 no ones. theyre all just kids going through relationships. she could have just been a little mature, realised the type of situation her music was creating and put something out telling her fans to be nicer to whoever the song was or was not about.
I‘m still not over how much hate Sabrina received over allegedly dating someone. It were all rumors and she received fckng de@th threats! And she‘s a private person normally bc she doesn’t want people up that close. That must have been so traumatizing
and still is receiving!
I totally agree, her music still seems to be boycotted by Olivia’s fans, probably because she would become competition for Olivia which is really sad because her music is really good
it’s absolutely crazy. this poor girl was getting absolutely hammered simply for dating a guy that has an ex. and it’s still happening, especially within certain fandoms
Yes and it could just be me but i llooooovvveee skin I listen to it every day, and I don’t know why everyone blamed her for all of it
@@carotriendl8258 its a beautiful song, it sounds good idk why everyone pretended it was bad just because it wasn't a traditional pop ballad, my girl loves layering vocals adding in riffs and belting because she has that vocal power and talent - its what a lot of her music sounds like. and personally I think it was a nice song, parts of it were giving motherly advice and other parts were saying fuck it to the haters but she could've been a lot meaner - like just go listen to looking at me, she could have released that instead TT
I am pretty sure that if twitter didn't allow users under 17 the harassment of creators would go down by like 80%.
Yeah but people lie about their age
they'd be somewhere else it doesn't really matter
It's very easy to create an account underage.
But that would breed a new type of annoying audience.
1. People lie about their age and can very easily on the internet lol. You just simply choose an eligible year.
2. A lot of people commenting on these situations, contributing to negativity and enjoying the drama were over 20. Sometimes people don't need to young to be problematic.
I had absolutely no context for any of olivia rodrigo's music until right now, and tbh almost all of sour just sounded like a teenager who was villainising their ex because they were heartbroken, none of it sounded particularly mature or realistic (which is fair!! she is/was a teenager, and she did write great songs about being a heartbroken teenager). I guess its because most of these fans are teenagers themselves, they don't really understand that the songs are about how she felt, not what actually happened
exactly,its just another teen being salty about a breakup, i dont think it shouldve been taken THIS seriously and send literal death threats to someone just bc *apparently* the songs were about them.
right! people are too used to harping on kids for being kids, they forget that we’re still immature. her songs aren’t facts, they’re feelings. as well as joshuas. i hope this all gets resolved and olivia says something (or that her management lets her, if this is a control issue.)
Some of the songs were based on her ex. But as she said on an interview, she just likes writing Hearbreak songs.
I don’t agree with this at all, lol. she was a teenager, and her feelings are fundamentally immature because it was most likely the most developed relationship she had had up to that point. i think as a songwriter, she used her devices very well to express frustrating heartbreak, anger, sadness, and longing. whether or not you liked the subject matter is one thing but olivia rodrigo did a great job writing that album and there’s no sense invalidating her experience when everyone has been a heartbroken teenager; people don’t just come out the room w emotional competency
yep, I listened to it after getting convinced by my cousins and I liked the vibes at first but the more I listened to it and how time passed. It just got petty? I'm sorry hehsjxnc
sabrina is so talented and i’m so mad this drama i think made her label release skin instead of going in the R&B direction she was heading in
And have you checked her TikTok recently? A year later, people are STILL being HORRIBLE to her. She can't even post a fucking thirst trap without people trying to deep-fry her.
Everyone projected all of their cheating experiences, and "other woman" trash onto her(literally just for dating a freshly single man). Literally to the point where currently, I see more hate sent to her than I do to Joshua. People seem to have forgiven him, but they refuse to even consider that for Sabrina, because they have projected such horrible things onto her.
It really makes me sick, because (as someone who has been following her for many years), I can safely say that she is a literal angel.
Like, for years she made regular trips to children's hospitals...that type of angel.
Whenever Sabrina has released break-up music, she always told her fans not to send hate to whoever they assumed the music was about. I grew up thinking that was the bare minimum, but apparently not. 😕
I'm still convinced that at least some of her involvement was a stunt cause she said she'd release music in January right before drivers license came out and skin feels like the references were put in after. The first line is from a poem in girl meets world which technically lines up with what she said about skin which was that it was about multiple situations. Her whole involvement just seemed very random to me.
@@yesthatisababytoucan.youre6983 the thing about that is even if the meaner lines of skin were genuine, if it's the worst she's done in this situation I still don't think it warrants the harassment she still gets and the possible taint on her career. People still hold it against her a year later
@@yesthatisababytoucan.youre6983 honestly Sabrina handled the situation fairly maturely just like Joshua in my opinion. Even with the release of Skin, as a long time fan I can honestly say that I don’t think she meant ill intent towards Olivia, I found it to be more for toxic fans instead. But the internalised misogyny that I see from Olivia fans is just horrifying because they would call Sabrina a home wrecker or derogatory names just because she happened to date a guy that just broke up with another girl. It sucks that she’s being treated this way honestly because she really seems like a genuinely nice person who is just trying to release music and act
@@riveroverland5902 100% I agree 😕💛
I always took her line in Brutal that says “I’m so caught up in the news of who likes me and who hates you” to be about the situation between them online. I imagine she was reading all the tweets and watching the drama channels.
It could be satisfying after you’re hurt by someone to villainize them. especially for a teenager. But with how public the whole thing is it’s just not right
Weren't her songs recorded like... Way before they came out?
@@babyfaceweeb8937 most of them are, but she did say she wrote brutal last, when she was 18, which would be february 2021, after the drama blew up
@@jennab5642 lol if that's the case then that makes the "i'm so caught up in the news of who likes me and who hates you" almost certainly about josh. i totally understand people who love olivia but damn she gets on my nerves. that would mean she also wrote that after josh was hospitalized with a 30% chance of survival and she didn't reach out to him at all. that's pretty messed up
@@abneryates4304 yeah i used to love her but it’s really hard to defend her actions right now. josh struggled so much and while this was the best year of olivia’s life, it was certainly josh’s worst.
she definitely enjoyed watched all of the hate joshua got
It genuinely bugs me that when an artist comes out with a breakup album or song people just take it as fact. It’s one persons pov of the relationship, it’s not cold hard facts. It’s especially bad when the other person isn’t a singer and therefore however they respond isn’t going to get as much attention.
I completely agree, especially with songwriters where it is normal and common (not saying it’s right) to dramatize the situation they write about, especially for someone like Olivia, who was probably a teenager who when she wrote it, seemed like it was like those situations where they have their very first serious heartbreak and automatically villainize the opposing party just because they are hurt, which is something I think everyone goes through.
Yeah. I like songwriting too. Pain inspires me to write, but not everything I say is true. I've also written a ton of things about things I've never even experienced, which she also did (I'm pretty sure she even publicly clarified a lot of the lyrics in deja vu are not based on real events). Sometimes, songs are a way to vent out our innermost, irrational thoughts which is what g4u sounded like. It's the petty song you listen to when you had a rough breakup and need to cry it out. I think everyone should've just appreciated the lyricism and went on with their day instead of psychoanalysing everyone involved in this fiasco
I totally agree with you. I remember one commenter took the rumours of the album being about her ex as a fact and used it to say that the album is not good and childish. Like there’s reasons why people relate to her songs. I haven’t been in any serious relationships before but still can relate to her songs. All of this drama would have definitely not happened if they didn’t take the lyrics seriously. Like the songs could be about any ex. I also casually write songs and all of them are not true at all. They’re inspired by my feelings and my friendships but somehow I still write them as break up songs.
Olivia Rodrigo wrote an album about an ex boyfriend who was emotionally distant and possibly invested in someone else before they broke up. Joshua Bassett wrote a song about an ex who cared more about using their drama for publicity than his feelings.
Even if we know, 100%, that they’re writing about each other, those are still two perfectly valid views on a messy, public breakup. And it’s perfectly possible for people to relate to and empathize with both at the same time. In a better world, people could listen to the songs, gossip with their friends about that they think really went down, and the two artists would never hear about it. In a slightly better world, the artists would see and comment on some of the speculation. But we’re in the shit version of reality where people actively attack one or both of them and force them to deal with the incessant bullying and threats.
Hopefully in the future, culture will shift back to a world where fan content and discourse ISN’T shoved down creators’ throats whether they want to engage or not. Like, I want it to still be possible to have conversations about these things publicly, but I don’t think the artists should have to deal with our bullshit while we do.
i love how u phrased this! i think fans and anyone who consumes art-just by nature of how the human brain works-have a tendency to assume that the perspective we’re presented is Correct, but art and stories and feelings can’t really be correct or incorrect. olivia’s feelings about the relationship are real, but that does not mean that the things we as listeners extrapolate and feel from that narrative are factual to Their Situation. any time music makes us feel an emotion, we’re projecting our own life onto that song-the problem comes when we don’t know/acknowledge that’s what’s happening, and think our projections are the objective truth about these real people
crisis was masterfully done so that even if you completely side with olivia, if you take his words at face value then you can see his side. nothing he says Negates the narrative she’s presented, just provides additional missing pieces
completely agree.
social media has made people so openly bitter and unafraid to spill their misery on anyone. i hope things change too.
"But we’re in the shit version of reality where people actively attack one or both of them and force them to deal with the incessant bullying and threats." THIS in a perfect world people would be able to express their feelings without fear of it influencing another persons feelings on the same thing, but the reality is we don't live that and probably won't for a while
This is the best comment I've ever read. Kudos to you.
100% agree
I followed this at the time when it happened, and it was pretty horrible to watch. Olivia was unequivocally not wrong to publish her music, but I do think she was wrong to never say something. They were filming together when he suffered literal heart failure due to the death threats and hate that he was receiving. She knew, full well, the impact that the world turning on him had on him and did nothing. Now, she doesn’t technically have a responsibility to. She’s not quote unquote wrong for doing it. But on a personal and moral level, allowing him to suffer like that really prevents me from being able to support her or her music. As a side note, given Joshua’s recent discussions about his childhood SA and mental health, in hindsight, I feel really disgusted by “I guess the therapist I found for you she really helped” and “You’re looking happy and healthy like a damn sociopath”. Overall, this is just a super damaging message to spread to kids. Alternatively, I do think he’s been a great role model. Respectful, open about his mental health, his queerness and his trauma. I think he’s a great person for young fans to look up to. Ultimately, I don’t think either of them deserve any hate, but I can’t personally get behind the way she’s acted about it all.
No, he didn't suffer heart failure from death threats, he had a bacterial infection from a childhood disease. Like stop spreading false information.
@@babyfaceweeb8937 that’s all u can take from her comment like???
@@babyfaceweeb8937 but it was triggered by stress also, hormones get released that suppress ur immunity making you more susceptible to infections which is what happened in his case. I dont believe it would have had as much likelihood of happening if he were not put in that situation to begin with
@@babyfaceweeb8937 Interesting you said it was due to a childhood disease in one reply to me and an infection in another. This is misinformation. He explicitly said on the Zach Sang podcast it was caused by stress. Septic shock and heart failure due to stress. But honestly, if that’s all you take from this, you’re missing the point.
Finally someone put it into words!!!!!!! I thought the exact same thing. I don’t even watch the show they were on or listen to their music, the literal only reason a lot of people know them is from this, so I feel like yeah obviously while she didn’t know the song would blow up she 100% had had time to speak up and just hasn’t. Still don’t understand how you can meet with presidents, but not hold your own young impressionable fans to at least a verbal understanding of not harassing someone from a song 🥲
This reminds me of Taylor Swift's rerecordings because her old songs about old exes are being brought up once again, but now people are so much more brutal. Because of All Too Well (10 min), people were so hateful to Jake Gyllenhaal, and I imagine a similar thing will happen when she rerecords her song Dear John (about john mayer).
yea her re releases are going to be so interesting especially with the next few albums bc of this!! it essentially gives us a direct comparison between releasing songs about famous exs back when those albums first came out vs the new age of social media
as a swiftie I agree but I can't blame her for having resentment towards Jake after the way he treated her, especially considering their age difference and the fact that Jake has a pattern of dating much younger women. It seems predatory, and the way she referenced him gaslighting her in the music video is very telling and disturbing when you consider the almost 10 year age difference. I think he was emotionally abusive towards her and used her for sex. That being said it's still never okay to send hate to someone and I don't justify that at all. But I really can't blame her because I still have resentment towards the older men who went after me and used me for sex when I was young and naive. I feel like they took some of my innocence.
@@annalupton9284 I'm also a swiftie and so I absolutely don't blame her for realeasing the song, I love it, but I do wish she would say something about not attacking anyone because of it.
tbh john mayer would deserve it
@@gracef2095 yeah same. Taylor more than anyone knows how it feels to be attacked like that on social media.
Unpopular Opinion: Skin by sabrina is a really good song.
It somehow reminds me how if we don't let people the access, they can't really make us breakdown from a distance...
And the fact that she said later they could be friends and laugh about it later... shows her mature side as well.
Yeah I love Skin so much and was blown away when I heard it.
I agree with this
And she even said it wasn't a diss track that it was for everyone hating on her!
Skin is a poor song compared to all the other songs by sabrina that she released prior to being famous...
skin is the one I relate to the most
Also with Sabrina Carpenter she did nothing she just dated a guy and she got so much hate for no reason and she still does get hate for no reason she just dated a guy, Olivia obviously had every single right to share her song but hating on Sabrina because of that song it’s ridiculous
sabrina isnt even confirmed to have ever dated josh
Fr its been a year and they still wont leave her alone. shes trying to release new music but they’re always so mean in the comments and updated with everything she does its so weird
Olvia mentions "blond girl" And somehow people jumpt to sabrina... As if she's the only blond girl in the entire planet...
The most heartbreaking part: it wasn’t even the first time she received hate for (alleged) actions of a boy(s) she (allegedly) dated. She dated Griffin Gluck (or whatever his name) who wrote racist and transphobic tweets even way before they met - SHE was blamed and hated for it. She made a public apology and talked about it “I believe people change, I’d never date him if he’d still be this way” - it didn’t help, so she learnt to not speak up again about dramas, Griffin didn’t say a word though.
Some months later Bri and Josh were seen together - people accused Josh of being homophobic or sth and dragged Bri into it AGAIN “you dating homophobic guy, so you are homophobic too!”
And half a year later Drivers License came out. Hated and Blamed for alleged actions of alleged boyfriend AGAIN. She made a post about Skin that it refers to several moments that happened in the year prior to the release, I think she talked about all that hate.
Olivia never hated on anyone
casey i need your opinion on the original disney drama selena/miley/jonas brothers drama also you’re gorgeous and i love you
omg yes, the OG love triangle
I need her opinion on everything
Omg please
YES
Check out the video milatequila did! :) either on her main or second channel
It was one thing for people to make jokes about like boys breaking up with girls and whatever, but it was so so disgusting when Joshua came forward with his SA story and Olivia's fans were mocking him, discrediting his story, and some even implied he deserved it (though a lot of other fans also reported those and called them out). It's become such a pattern in fandom/standom that if they like one thing it means they need to absolutely hate the other when two people or characters or whichever can coexist as humans and not overly good or evil sides.
People are still bullying him. He recently got called Joshua bastard like 🤦♀️
While it's true Olivia's no evil mastermind you can't deny that she was well aware of the backlash and the hate the people were facing and wanted it to happen. She herself says it in her lyrics-'i was obsessed with news headlines, who was loving me and who was hating you'. So she could have sent out a statement saying- hey i don't condone this but she didn't because that was partly what she wanted. It's not necessarily evil, it's valid to feel hurt but Joshua acted much better in contrast and that's to be respected.
I think she wasn't online that much to see the backlash. Too busy signing record deals, breaking records, signing with management, and making an album to see what was going on around her. Joshua, I'm sure, had a lot more time to look through instagram comments and have his feelings hurt.
@@maryem9225 Olivia: i was too obsessed with headlines, wanting to know headlines and who was hating on him.
Fans with no reading comprehension: lol no.
I think looking back on the entire situation, I feel pretty gross about some of Olivia's lyrics. Just as you said, I don't think she was evil, but her songs definitely echoed this bitterness and immaturity I didn't give as much attention to before. I get it might be "normal" for some people to pray on the downfall of their exes, but when you have millions of people shoving that person down even harder, it's not just post-breakup angst anymore. This was an awful situation and I genuinely wish Olivia had addressed it, no matter her and Josh's relationship at the time. Based on her lyrics, it doesn't even sound like he did anything genuinely horrible. What's horrible is letting someone get pummeled with death threats because you're still petty about a breakup.
@@maryem9225 Her own dad was liking tweets hating on Sabrina. What are you on?
Exactly, people need to start holding their favourite artists accountable
i don't think sabrina's "skin" was a miss. but i do think people didn't understand it because they didn't want to...
exactly
Say it louder for the people in the back.
Yes! It was a song about the hate she was getting from antis due to her relationship with Joshua. Not a song about “oliva hating her” -.-
yES she was also being mature about it too, with her Instagram post explaining and asking everyone not to send hate to anyone??? she's such an angel she doesn't deserve all of this, her music are always so good too
PURR
When the drama went on, I wasn't angry on anyone but when SNL name dropped Sabrina and Joshua, Olivia literally appreciated it and I was so upset with her. I hope in future she improves in future.
I've been saying this for so long, Olivia's fandom is infested with internalized misogyny. They harassed a poor girl who did nothing but dating a guy and being pretty
Honestly, most of us older folks who are fans don't give a shit about the made up fan drama. Her music just took us back to our own teenage years and our own drama back then. Fandoms these days from all parties have some toxic batshit crazy factions. I had no idea how crazy it has gotten since I've never been a hardcore fan of any artist. Just watching the exchange between different fandoms (especially in KPop - not into the genre but my daughter is), it's just full of toxicity. That's why I limit my children's social media exposure .
It bothers me how people want to make Joshua a villain so bad and try so hard to make him seem like a bad person. They even putting words in his mouth like "he called her a crazy ex", when she literally called him a sociopath for moving on
I've thought about something similar, but just with music in general. we really need to move away from this notion that a song is telling the whole truth, whole picture, or even what the artist fully believes. songs are like snapshots of emotion, or like little tales, they aren't meant to be the objective truth.
I actually feel really bad for Joshua, retrospectively. I've never sent a hate comment, I've never felt the need to. And I did not feel that passionately that Joshua was bad, but I was like yeah, this is kinda a jerk move. I think what annoys me is that Olivia did not say "do not send hate." I honestly think she would have looked better if she posted that on her story or something, as it's no skin off her back, and it could genuinely make a fan think over their actions as most of her fans are children and very impressionable.
I think this is a good cautionary tale for younger people (if they pay attention, unfortunately his music isn't getting the same numbers) that there is more than one side of the story. Through Josh's music, we found out that she broke up with him. I initially thought it was a mutual breakup, but if someone breaks up with you... that's ggs on the relationship, like it's not even a "break." Something else I find interesting is that she never contacted him after Driver's License dropped... He stated he tried to contact her, but she did not respond, which I just think is shitty (but then again, she's 17-18). We also found out through his music that the boyfriend she has now (18 versus 24 is a yikes from me) she crushed on and was friends with when she was underage which is just horrible on many levels (I think they were family friends since she was 13??) So, they both ended up dating people that were friends and told the other person that they "don't need to worry about them."
Also in retrospect, Good 4 U feels really weird. Because Joshua was not happy and healthy, he was hospitalized right after Driver's License came out, on the brink of death, while also getting death threats. Like that's crazy.
All that said, I don't "hate" either of them. I don't think people need to like or dislike one person. I just think that this is a good example of, in these types of situations, do not dislike someone without knowing the full details/their side. I will continue to listen to both of their music, but I would be lying if I did not say Olivia's music is tainted for me (I know that's parasocial as fuck, but I can't deny that I feel this way), as I feel bad for Josh because she did not reach out or at least post a simple instagram story. To me, that shows she did not care about anything that happened to Josh (sickness, death threats, etc.). I will continue to follow Josh's journey more, because his most recent interviews resonated with me, as someone who has been through the same... types of events (bisexuality, csa, etc.) I love seeing men talk about these topics too, because there is such a stigma around men that are bisexual or have gone through certain events. All in all, I am happy to have found Josh through the "drama license fiasco" and I'm happy that younger people (I would say Gen Z, but I'm on the older end of Gen Z, so that technically applies to me even though I'm in my 20s) have this example. I'm really passionate about these topics, so if you read all the way, dang, lol, this was longggg.
Definitely agree with this! Wasn’t there a huge age gap between Joshua and Olivia when they dated too though? Where like she was underaged but he wasn’t? Genuine question, not at all trying to take away from any of the points you made bc you’re right
you summed it up perfectly, and the bit about olivias music being tainted for you now applies to me too. I cant listen to it now without thinking about how the way she’s portraying things arent particularly true and had such a negative impact on both joshua and sabrina
This was very well put!!! I always seem to have a thought in my head about these song dramas though; that the writer didn't base the song wholly on their experiences and other people, they might just have one idea and follow where the music and the writing process takes them. I hope this is the case for Olivia's music.
well good 4 u again we’re just assuming its about him when it probably wasn’t even. there’s no proof that any of the songs are about him technically, so it would make sense that lyrics don’t match up
@@nevaehgalluccio the thing is people still took it to be about him, her entire album ppl were making assumptions was about the whole situation which is why it just intensified cos crazy ppl had so much more 'material' to work with and fuel their unjust hatred for both joshua and sabrina. olivia very much knew this, its clear she wrote these songs from way before but she was definitely aware ppl were making it out to be about something it wasn't and she could've just said something like 'dont spread hate on my behalf' would have sufficed to at least show that she herself didn't want people getting hurt because of her music. her staying silent, knowing her songs were being misunderstood and used to make harmful assumptions is such a bad look. took josh and sabrina a millisecond to tell their fans; don't misunderstand this isn't a disstrack and I don't want you to send hate anyones way. olivia didn't have that decency, all she said that it was funny how ppl were making assumptions
Great video! My take on it is that while she is not responsible for her fans sending the hate towards him because she has no direct control over them, her not saying anything to try to discourage the hate left a bad taste in my mouth. And while to a certain extent her saying something would probably just be optics because realistically I don't think it would've reduced the hate that much, ultimately optics matter and the we would now be saying, "well at least she tried something," but instead we're here asking if she was in the wrong.
Completely agree. It also left a bad taste in my mouth. While it does not stop many fans, it may stop even just one, and that's good. I think it would have even been good PR for her to do so anyway. She would have looked like the bigger person and been more adored, so it really puzzles me that she did not say something, even something simple
She's a role model for a lot of her fans, so I think it's possible that she can affect what they're about to do.
this is exactly my thoughts, it just puts her in a bad light for me i cant listen to her music anymore without feeling awful about the way it affected two peoples lives, and she didnt bother to say anything
I also think it was partly the fault of the audience for assuming because i’m pretty sure i read somewhere thats she said in a radio show and they brought up Sabrina and to that she replied that she didn’t really know her so she couldn’t have written a such a passionate song about someone she didn’t really know. Regarding to Josh, I think she could’ve said something but we also don’t know if she was told not to say anything by her team. I love Olivia and her music but after hearing both sides, it definitely makes me feel kinda weird about her music.
And she even had a chance to "redeem" herself more recently when Joshua received hate following coming out, and following his revelating of his childhood abuse. When Liv's fans started saying her was lying about being abused for attention, that he deserved it for hurting Liv, that he deserved it for being queer, that it couldn't have happened because he's a man- and Liv stayed quiet and didn't address her fans, that was when it hit me. I love her music but I honestly can't even listen to it anymore. I can't imagine my ex going through something like that and not doing something about it.
I can't bring myself to "hate" Olivia, Joshua, or Sabrina. Their relationship is none of my business. Crisis was a good song, I love Olivia's stuff, haven't really listened to Sabrina's music since Thumbs... Like it doesn't matter. They're their own people and I'm gonna keep listening to the music I listen to and watching the shows I watch for now.
Honestly, same. I do feel bad for Sabrina and Joshua and the hate they received, and I can see why people think at the end of the day, Olivia could’ve said something but at the same time, this whole drama doesn’t concern us and I don’t really feel a need to pick sides. I just happen to like Olivia and Sabrina’s music, and that’s that on that.
Agreed
unfortunately not a lot of people are as mature and understanding as you :") as a fan of all three of them this whole thing did affect me one way or another, seeing artists you admire getting immense hate might not seem like a big deal for someone but for others it did. with that said, we'll always be thankful for people like you who understands and isn't immature towards some thing we really do have nothing to do with, hopefully more will realize it soon
“Two sides of a story can be different but they can also be true at the same time” is a great take. Honestly like… it’s people taking art at its word, which it shouldn’t be. Let art be what it is: a catharsis, a way to express complex emotions, a way to process. Fleetwood Mac wrote a whole album about them all breaking up with each other and then had to go tour it. Like Lindsay Buckingham sat onstage night after night while Stevie Nicks sang some of the world’s most vicious breakup songs *about him* AT HIM.
Celebrity culture has existed as long as celebrities have, but like you said, that feeling of closeness that the internet gives you is something else. It’s easy to forget that you don’t know these people, that you have no horse in this race.
Anyway, great vid, loved it
as a fan of both Olivia and Joshua since 2019 because of HSMTMTS, watching this entire drama unfold was very crazy to me. I agree that just because you like two artists who are pit against each other, it doesn’t mean you have to choose to be on either one’s side. They are not your divorced parents, please.
From the beginning as much as I hated the thought of Olivia experiencing that level of heartbreak, I couldn’t bring myself to feel any negative emotions towards josh. All through this he’s been so sweet and supportive of Olivia even. i did find it a bit odd that she never once tried to diffuse the situation because I’m sure she saw how much hate people were spewing online but I also understand because she was freshly 18, she had become an overnight success and I’m sure it was very new and overwhelming for her. Im sure a lot of her decisions were heavily influenced by her team/agency and she must’ve felt that she had to go long with what they want her to do instead of what she wants to do?
Idk, but In retrospect, I hated the way everyone treated josh and even Sabrina. It makes sense to be mad for let’s say a mutual friend of yours who’s going through the same thing but celebrities?? We don’t know what really went on. People made their assumptions based on song lyrics. Did Olivia right out tell anyone about what really went on? Maybe half of her lyrics are not even true. A lot of artists write songs based on fictional events or change up a couple things from a real event but the point is, we don’t know what happened unless we hear it from everyone’s side. I still love them both as individuals and artists and I hope they continue to gain success in their careers without people interjecting and hating for no reason
sorry that was so long lol
agreed! i wish the best for both of them and i hope they resolve things
Agreed! I was always shocked at how overboard people went with their reactions, it was just a breakup.
Also I miss late 2019 - early 2020 when the HSMTMTS fandom wasn't toxic and the show was good
@@s29nv1sr1 late 2019 - early 2020 truly was the best time😭 it’s such an unproblematic feel good show and I loved how the cast got along but unfortunately due to all this drama, most of the fans are always going to be either team Liv or team Josh and that’s so sad like why can’t we be supportive of both?? I’m so excited for the third season though!! I hope people just enjoy it when it comes out instead of turning that into some drama too
@@-rianna 100%! I got into HSMTMTS while we were all stuck at home - it was the first show I binged while in quarantine - and I'll always consider watching season 1 a comfort pastime of mine because it brought me so much laughter and hilarity in an unstable time. The fandom was so sweet too! We were small but still fun and chill and cozy
And then season 2 dropped in the middle of the drama and the fandom is just a mess all over 😭 hopefully season 3 can smooth things over
this!!! same situation and what you said is really well written. lots of things i want to point out as well. but what makes it worse for me was I'm Sabrina's fan since 2015, so seeing her getting dragged was just horrible for me to see. I was on my way watching the 2nd season of the show, was looking forward to Sabrina's 5th album, but then bam 😭😭
This actually reminds me of the early days of story time RUclips! Overtime storytime RUclipsrs had to start basically begging their fans in the video in the descriptions and in the comments to please not figure out who the subject of the story was and send them harassment. Then with the added new knowledge that a lot of the huge story time RUclipsrs back then were overdramatizing their stories or flat out lying while their fan bases were so naïve and obsessed with them that they were mobbing random strangers…
Lol the Gabby days
I always found it so werid how invested people were. It was literally just a regular breakup but Sabrina got death treats.
I listen to her songs and see it as a first heartbreak, it’s got that cringey feeling that you get when you look back on your first heartbreak and how you reacted. There’s a lack of emotional maturity, I don’t think her ex was that bad even after listening to all the songs. It’s from an emotional standpoint, not a rational one. I think she’s within her right to make music over this stuff, but maybe not release a whole album on it, because it gives it so much power and brands her to it.
It seems like the breakup wasn’t mutual and she couldn’t understand how he didn’t feel the same way as her, and it shows the emotional immaturity. Which is cool to look back on as someone who’s been through that. We as an audience need to see that as well, and stop taking one side of an intimate relationship where we barely have any insight into, and going to harass people over it. But artists need to show maturity and explain these things too. Like what Joshua did.
i mean josh is older and more mature than olivia but yes i agree , olivia's songs were kind of "first serious breakup" . but again, olivia is a teen and pretty young so i don't really blame her.
I feel like the bigger reference point in Taylor Swift songs is the new version of All Too Well really, which went into so much more personal detail than the original version to the point where I kinda wonder if Taylor still holds a lot of resentment towards Jake Gyllenhall. I mean, it’d be fair for her to feel like that considering what we know about that relationship, but there’s a difference between animosity between two people and animosity towards a person from a legion of fans, yknow?
Tbh i dont know why it would be reasonable for taylor to be resentful? it was a very short relationship a long time ago, and yeah it was obviously really impactful for her and she romantized it a lot, but she herself said they were in good terms and he congratulated her in the album after it originally came out. I mean it wasnt like an abusive relationship or anything, sometimes relationships judt dont work and for to be still bringing it up is like.. so weird
@@Sofia-ip1zw actually she didn't give much attention to all too well when it first came out, but fans became obsessed with it. I'm a swiftie and through all these years we've kinda been crazy over it specially after someone from her band said originally it was longer, so we _constantly_ talked about it. Taylor said that after she got over the whole situation she realized the song still meant so much to us, which is why she decided to give it focus now.
@@Sofia-ip1zw I really don’t think other people get to dictate how someone should feel about a relationship they had no matter how short it was. We weren’t in that relationship, we don’t know how much it could’ve meant for the parties involved.
Also, like the commenter before me stated, Taylor actually didn’t give much attention to all too well when red first came out. She has spoken about the fact that a song that was so gut-wrenchingly sad and triggering to her turned into a beautiful memory because of the fans and the love they showered on it and whatever has happened during the rerelease was for the fans. The only reason the relationship was in the media all over again was because of the rerelease, the same way joe jonas was when fearless (tv) came out.
Wait didn't Taylor write the 10 minute version back when she wrote the rest of red and just release it last year? I might be wrong though. I haven't been a swiftie in a while
@@andrewb.8184 she wrote the 10 minute version first in 2012 and pared it down to the five minute track that went on the original album.
okay i need to say this, because you didn't mention it in the video, but sabrina did also do an instagram post explaining skin, and she also mentioned it in interviews saying that the song is NOT only about olivia and the dl drama, that she drew inspiration from many different things she experienced, and when asked about it interviews, she never ever said anything and just said its not her place to tell the story. stream skinny dipping, stream fast times and sc5!
i love skinny dipping and skin
Thank you!
Dude honestly,, skinny dipping acoustic ver slaps and i love it
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE SKINNY DIPPING
Stan culture makes me deeply uncomfortable.
Imagine getting death threats because you're dating this person's ex. Ex. Not even the person giving YOU death threats, the friends (in this case, fans) gives you death threats : someone who isn't even in the story.
Agree. It never okay to send threat to anyone.
ruclips.net/video/HkUcqyDgDrg/видео.htmlsi=KgHwwUpdMQD5d1rI
But before jumping to conclusion check out this for a clear timeline
btw lie lie lie was written ages ago (it was posted on his insta before he even dated olivia iirc) !! he’s addressed that it’s not about her :)
"i don't care if she's in the wrong, i am still team olivia" i overheard my sister said one time when she and my brother are talking about the feud. so yeah i have a direct view of what some of olivia's fans are like and it is toxic as hell.
that's what happens when a fanbase is built off of drama, it causes hyper obsession
I have a friend who is a die hard fan and I said I wasn't a big fan of one of her met gala outfits and he almost tore me apart. so i can confirm they are very dedicated to their olivia
@@kiyomii1he ate you up
@@stream.olivia.rodrigo. ?? LOL i din even say what he said. im ignore cuz ur name lol
@@stream.olivia.rodrigo. i dont even hate olivia lol yall fans r crazy
The one thing I will never get over is that when driver’s license came out, the man was about to die in the hospital when he was getting hella hate. I have a huge amount of respect for Josh and I lost respect for Olivia. She should have said something to her fans when they sent death threats.
i agree but maybe the reason she didn't say anything against her fans sending death threats to josh is bcs of her management? i think managements can be pretty controlling (one direction's management for example) and that could've been the reason she stayed quiet ; i don't know for sure though.
@@aditi9752 She didn't even visit him or reach out to him when he was in the hospital fighting for his life, though. A despicable management is one thing but behind closed doors she stopped caring about him whatsoever (while he continued to praise her for a while after the breakup-if they ever were dating).
@@JuliaJiggs honestly we don't know know what happens behind closed doors so i think it's better that we don't comment about that. but yeah, i guess olivia could've handled the situation better
Probably gonna get buried in the comments but olivia’s dad liked tweets trashing Sabrina. Olivia knew what she was doing.
Oh gosh.
Eww that's so immature and pathetic
really crazy how somehow olivia is responsible for a man's actions. why? just 'cus it's her dad? go after him then ffs
@@mupp lol, die hard Olivia fans.
That's gross oh my gosh. If it was Olivia and Josh liking crappy tweets, whatever. But her family being involved?
i think the taylor swift comparison makes sense but miley vs selena over nick jonas was the moment and it has a lot in common with this.
i think it’s important to also note that joshua himself hates crisis - it’s one of the only songs of his that wasn’t on the setlist on his tour. the only way he could release the other songs on his ep is if he released crisis. his label HATED secret and set me free (which are some of his best songs idk what’s wrong with his label)
Josh also released a song last year called ‘Only a Matter of Time’, and assuming it is about this whole situation, it offers a lot more perspective on his decision not to reply to Olivia’s hate with his own.
It really is a testament to his maturity in comparison to her lack-I mean, as someone who’s his age with a couple younger friends, there is a huge difference between your late teens and early twenties. There’s a lot of growth there, a lot of learning how to deal with (and what to say publicly) about your emotions. Learning to restrain yourself, to give yourself time and remember first how you loved someone instead of how they hurt you…that’s what Only a Matter of Time exudes. Being hurt, and being sad, but ultimately stepping away to do the right thing.
The writing in Sour is simply brilliant, you can’t deny that. And I’m sure writing all of those songs, channeling her hurt and bitterness were therapeutic for her. And they *might* help some young people through their first heartbreak….but at what cost? It’s okay to write a song and not release it to the public, or to save it for later years when it isn’t so fresh (and so easy for the public to know who you’re singing about).
Maybe it’s unfair to expect Olivia to know better. She is just a kid, and she probably couldn’t know that hate on her ex would be the main byproduct of her album…but oh man, what an awful way to learn that lesson. When art could cause more pain than good, maybe just keep it private. It can be cathartic enough to just write the song; you don’t *have* to share it.
I don’t listen to either of their music on the regular, and SO much of what’s ‘known’ about this situation is just rumor. But my heart hurts for Josh Bassett.
I think the best example I can think of regarding “shaping conversations as an artist” is how BTS Army reacted after RM called out James Corden for his condescending comment/joke about ARMY. Even though Corden didn’t actually apologize, RM said, “We appreciate your apology” (appreciate, not accept) and the predominant reaction that I saw from ARMY was: Alright, so a lot of us still don’t like or trust James Corden. But RM addressed it, BTS is still acting cordial with him, it’s clear that BTS wants to move on from this, so we need to also move on.”
Obviously not everyone who calls themselves ARMY shares that same mindset. But BTS and specifically RM was able to shape the conversation around the James Corden situation by giving it a resolution, and doing so in a way that made a lot of ARMY want to respect BTS’ decision to keep a cordial relationship with Corden.
Olivia could have attempted to do even the bare minimum of telling her fans to not send hate. She didn’t even have to mention Joshua by name-she could have just said, “It is not okay for you to send hate to anyone based on how you interpret my music. Do not do it,” and leave it at that. Yet she didn’t. I don’t hate Olivia. But I don’t respect how she struck the match, tossed it, and watched the fire grow without grabbing so much as a cup of water.
Your point about the difference between celebrities writing songs about each other 10 years ago vs now made me think of the impact of the original All Too Well compared to the All Too Well (10 Minute Version). Do you have any thoughts on the amount of hate that Jake Gyllenhaal received from Swifties as a result of Red TV and Taylor’s role/responsibility for it, if any?
no bc ive been waiting to talk about this for a MINUTE. seeing ppl get angry on behalf of a fully grown adult is insane to me especially over a situation that is years old. I understand that music is Taylor's craft so she wanted to release a longer version, but the impact just wasnt really worth it. Its unrelated but it really irks me that one of her fan bases major points for hating Jake over the song is their age thing when Taylor dated a high schooler when she was like 23, so it comes off a bit hypocritical.
i love her but she should say something 😭 its insane what swifties do
@@architanigam7973 i might be wrong, but when she dated harry styles wasn’t he 18 years old and she was something like 22/23 years old??? and she did the same thing with conor kennedy, if I am not wrong he was still in highschool when they dated and his mother had just died. now, 18-23 is not as a big deal as 20-30 but it’s still not okay?? i mean you are at very different fazes in your life when you are 18 and when you are 23. from my point of view her saying in atw 10 minute version the whole thing about the age gap comes off as a little hypocritical, y’know??? with this i don’t mean to send any type of hate to tay, i lover her
and the same happened with taylor lautner, he was 17 and she was 20. but it’s not as bad as 18-23 in my opinion.
@@giulia17139 with Lautner she was 19 not 20
Sabrina is literally the purest soul, she's gonna get her light back 🕊️🌼😇🙏
and ur right !!
it was her against the world and she won
honestly in this situation no one’s a villain, it started with olivia making an album of how she felt, then he did the same, and so did sabrina but people misunderstood it and took it way out of proportion. some parts were not good, like olivia did nothing to stop the hate they were getting which is not okay. imo other people’s relationships and drama is not healthy to follow so intensely.
while the blame for liv’s fans behavior is not totally on her- I honestly cannot imagine knowing that your fans, with your face as their profile, clearly trying to avenge you, are sending death threats.. and not doing ANYTHING about it. he very explicitly stated that he went into septic shock & heart failure DUE TO THE STRESS FROM THIS. and they were literally filming the new season of hsmtmts when it happened. she KNEW what was going on, & josh recently said that there has still been NO communication between them. that just… makes it a little hard, from a moral standing, to support olivia currently.
i completely agree with this - she should and could have said something but she didn't say anything either publicly or privately
My respect for joshua went up after this drama, and I never expected that.
havent watched the full video, but honestly i was fans of them before the release of it and i was kinda upset because they used to be friends and they’d never even confirmed they were dating so i felt like everyone really took it and ran with the story without that much context even if it’s likely it was about joshua
also, i don’t know if anyone really knew this but joshua had to go to the hospital right after lie lie lie was released, and it must’ve been awful for him especially since he was getting alot of like threats
He ended up in the hospital due to the amount of stress he was under. I’m sure he could’ve had other things going on, but being attacked in on of the most popular songs and getting threats for it 100% contributed to this. People need to think about the mass amounts damage hate can do not just emotionally, but physically.
@@LivTheSlayer No, he went to the hospital from a bacterial infection. Like imagine lying about this.
@@babyfaceweeb8937 josh said himself he thinks stress played a part in it.
I actually was thinking about this awhile back and the whole situation, with the rerelease of all too well. I feel like Olivia could’ve come out and released a statement telling her fans hey I know my music really resonated with you but don’t send death threats and harass people. I think it was John Mayer who showed someone sending him a dm telling him to k*** himself and he actually responded asking the person if they really wanted that and the sender backtracked.
Artists have millions of fans and of those millions a small % send death threats and harassment but that small % are hundreds of people. Imagine 100s of people in a room in front of you and them telling you horrible things towards you, over a relationship that ended badly. There are very few things in a relationship that warrant harassment to such a degree.
Fans actions aren’t on the celebs but I feel like they have a duty of care to help alleviate tensions by just releasing a message discouraging fans who take such actions.
yeah it's really sad especially because josh wasn't a super big artist like john mayer so it must've been a lot at once for him to handle. It's so weird to watch this drama unfold as someone who followed both of them before it (I watched hsmtmts). You can even see the tension on screen, they went from having so much chemistry to none, which makes sense. But I can't imagine how they would film together every day and not address the elephant in the room? I think that's what surprises me the most, not that olivia didn't say anything publicly but apparently they haven't even spoken since drivers license...
nothing'a disappointed me more than when she decided to stay quiet and enjoy the fame from her song. even after all this josh went out of his way to tell his fans to not send hate towards anyone. it honestly shows their intentions and character
this whole situation would have been avoided if we just stopped caring who the song was about and just enjoyed it for what it was, a song.
yes, artists need to call out their fanbase when they’re acting out of control, the media also needs to stop fanning the flames with the ‘who is this song about’ articles, and we as people need to stop caring so much about the private lives of people we don’t know. we’re not entitled to their stories, and them writing songs about it doesn’t give us permission to endlessly theorise about it, much less take our theories as the final word and harass someone for it.
this whole drama was and still is stupid. im not gonna hold it against olivia because she’s young and this is all really new to her, i just hope that if there is a next time, she learns from this experience and understands her responsibility.
In highschool, when we were dissecting poetry and literature in general, our professor always stressed that we should refer to the narrator of the work as a "lyrical subject" (that's how it directly translates into english, but idk maybe you guys already have a similar expression) and he always corrected us when we started talking about the author (e.g. the author said this, because...) . Sure, the author's personal life and beliefs are very useful for interpreting their art, but at the end of the day it's a work of art that's been embellished and adjusted to read/sound/look better than the source material would've if the artist just presented it raw. And I think there's a lot of artists that have such young fans, who haven't yet fully grasped the concept of art and poetry not being a literal interpretation of reality, and I can imagine it's a complicated position, where you know you're not personally responsible for every action every fan of yours does, but you still should guide them if they gang up on someone for no reason. But I can also imagine Olivia's label telling her not to say anything bc she's now built this army of young fans who are very loyal. It's interesting.
I think it’s important to acknowledge that we don’t even know if Sabrina and Josh even actually dated, or if “blonde girl” is a true reference to her. The original version of driver’s license said “brunette girl.” There’s a lot of subtle narratives that can be taken from both of these artists’ music, but idk if we as an audience can say what is true and what is artistic liberty. Olivia is very talented and has written lots of songs about fictional situations (which I believe she mentioned when speaking about SOUR)
why does no one get that olivia just used that love triangle for fame?? Not every teenage girl is as innocent as you think and coming from disney, this was probably an idea her label had, but still.
There no better marketing strategy than drama like this and yes, it may not have been planned out exactly, but she and her team still kept the fire burning.
the same with her and taylor swift. she mentioned taylor as many times as she could use her being a fan of taylor to get some trash tabloids to write about it and now? she might still be a fan of hers, but does not mention it anymore, because it brought he the attention she wanted to.
It's all about knowing what to say and what not to say, and her not stopping the hate train or at least saying "hey, don't hate, if you do you are no fan of mine" really tells you what kind of person she is. she profited from it, why should she say anything against it? she did that months later when she said something about not hating women, but that was was too late and did'nt stop the hate against joshua.
but at the end of the day nothing of it matters because all of them have more money than any of us and are privileged anyway.
but somehow all the praise olivia gets for using hate to get famous and all the naive teenage girls seeing her as the most perfect human ever existed bothers me still xD
i think people are putting way too much pressure on these teenagers. what was done to joshua by the internet was wrong but to blame olivia for all of it and to blame her for him being in the hospital (which isn’t true bc it was due to his body’s response to a bacterial infection) is wrong. sure the stress didn’t help his recovery but olivia is not to blame. we have no clue what happened behind the scenes. also new artists are extremely vulnerable. olivia was probably threatened by management to stay quiet and she didn’t have a choice in saying something. people seem to forget how controlling management can be, especially to new artists. i think this was just a shitty breakup and the entire internet as a whole handled it horribly. people also want to villainize people so bad. i see so many people hating on olivia but those are the same people who sent the hate towards josh in january. olivia can’t solve world peace. this entire situation should teach people to stop being so negative to people you don’t know. and a lot of people recently have been invalidating olivias feelings and that’s wrong too. both people’s feelings are valid.
completely agree!!!!
Exactly! She was called so many names as well, people really came after her too and I think not enough people talk about that, Joshua got a lot of hate but so did Olivia and yet it wasn’t seen as talked about
I don't think Olivia is directly at fault and definitely not responsible for his hospitalization but I would like to make clear that the septic shock was NOT found to be directly caused by a bacterial infection. It was actually triggered by stress (or something else that is unknown)- according to what he said on the Zach Sang Show. It is very possible that all the hate he was getting played a role in that.
I think it just goes to show that people should be more careful about what they say about others online. Especially for these young teenagers like you said. Neither of them should be getting hate period.
actually he literally said himself that he was in the hospital due to stress. it was not because of bacteria or anything. she wasn’t the reason he was in the hospital but her fans who sent the threats are.
@@isabellagoetschel4828 search up septic shock. it’s caused by body’s reaction to a bacterial infection. sure his stress didn’t help in the recovery but it’s not what caused it. the way he put it was incredibly misleading and led people to blame olivia which is not the truth. i’m not saying how he was treated was okay in any way bc it wasn’t but stress was not the cause. and to make it seem like olivias song and the response to it is to blame for it is not okay either. bc of course fans aren’t going to hold themselves accountable so people are blaming olivia which is not okay.
9:41 “We should be able to live in an environment where artists can truthfully sing about their experiences and accept that two of those experiences can be different experiences because two sides of the story can be different but can also be true”
yes she shouldnt have to, but as you said her fandom still did it - and still are doing it. I’ve been a fan of sabrina for years and never witnessed her recieve as much hate as she has in this past year. Its so awful she hardly moved last year, and even now everything she does is criticised and belittled by olivias fans. people like to compare to how taylor never said anything but back then the internet hadnt matured so much and ur right there wasnt this super small barrier between celebrity and audience - now sabrina can see all of their comments firsthand, all of their unjustified hate every second i feel so bad for her i wish olivia would just say something. I liked her music at a point in time but now im just really put off. i really dont think i can support someone who doesnt say anything to their fans about not sending unecessary hate to someone.
also Taylor never said anything super mean (except for John Mayer, when she was 19 and he was 31, so that was warranted at that time) and nothing like "I guess that therapist I found for you, she really helped", but I too get that this could be fiction. The worst she said at that time when Swift made a sexist lyric in her song which she appologised and never sang again
@@vaishnavisingh9244 what about better than revenge?
@@darcy325 It was in 2010, the same year she wrote songs about John Mayer. She have publically apologised and have never sang that song live after that. Plus, I think that song might hit different for her since she was literally the target for sl*t shaming for years.
Again, she have apologised and haven't written anything like it again.
@@vaishnavisingh9244 i didnt know that, honestly i wish olivia took a page out of every one of taylor swifts books by learning to apologise and mind the atmosphere her music creates.
@@darcy325 I agree but then again, we don't know what goes behind the scene. Her record label or marketing team MIGHT be keeping her from making anything public.
I feel bad for all three of them honestly. Their all valid in using their experiences in their art. They’re all so young and this whole thing blew up so huge and so quickly. I blame their management if anything. They have experienced adults in their corner who should be advising them on what to do and how to manage the impact of their art as to not hurt other people.
I feel so bad and respect Joshua so much for how he handled this whole thing.
Yeah, Crisis is kinda shady, but it feels justified after the year he had.
Also, not only is he donating everything to mental health causes, but also he intentionally held those songs back despite having written them a long time ago. And instead of directly profiting off the fresh drama he decided to let things calm down.
In retrospect both Olivia and Sour are kinda tainted for me.
I still enjoy her music, and think she is very talented. But the way she handled things, especially that she not once made atleast a statement towards her "bad" fans feels kinda vindictive and toxic. She obviously was and is aware about the hate her album produced for the people involved with her.
And it just feels kinda petty to silently watch it unfold. "Hope ur ok" will probably forever be my favourite from her album solely because, as far as I know, it´s completely unrelated to the whole love triangle drama.
The whole thing kinda repelled me from Rodrigo's music. Her fans sent death threats to bassett and sabrina, when bassett had near death experience there were cruel jokes about it, there were cruel jokes about his sa experience. Her fans were so toxic and she did nothing to stop them. And its not even like he cheated or anything. They were both teenagers and he moved on from her. People are allowed to do that. He didn't deserve to be villainized for it.
ruclips.net/video/HkUcqyDgDrg/видео.htmlsi=Osxla-6j8vOQEARm
idk why ppl are so interested in celebrity relationship drama. i guess hearing abt it can be interesting but there’s no reason to get emotionally invested. this isn’t a right or wrong situation. it seems like they had a messy relationship & both did bad things. it’s not black and white.
What I feel like people are missing is that the song isn’t about who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong. It’s about how one person is feeling after a relationship has ended.
I made the conscious decision when this all dropped a year ago to know as little as possible. And while I still like good 4 u as a song, knowing stuff know kinda makes me feel... icky. Like this whole situation was 1000x messier than anything that involved Taylor over the years. We will never truely know who is telling the truth and who is lying, but my goodness, the stuff people have said about Joshua basset over the past year is just awful. And we don't even know what's the truth. Like why to some fans can Olivia do no wrong and Joshua is the incarnation of Satan himself.
I don't think Swift ever dragged any ex (except John back when she was 19 and he was 31) and made an entire album with the purpose of dragging him.
@@vaishnavisingh9244 Sour drags Joshua? You don't even know it's about him lol. She's never said who it was about. And over a quarter of the album isn't even about a breakup. The jealously of young people in this chat is wild.
@@maryem9225 I never said Sour drags Joshua! :) in fact I agree with you
@𝐀𝐆 Okay yes, I was kinda sad to see all the comments shutting down on Olivia, I feel like people are judging her too harshly. And I agree.
retrospective after a year, and I think it says a lot that HSMTMTS began thriving as a show again (in terms of writing, character development/fleshing out characters) after Olivia became just a guest and then left completely.
it's entirely possible for a breakup to hurt both people, even if it doesn't seem like it. joshua is relatively young, just like olivia is, and him getting hate for a messy breakup between them (because olivia managed to control the narrative in the media) really sucks. it's really admirable how he's handling the situation, it shows an understanding of media cycles and public opinion. im interested to see how olivia continues because she seems equally savvy to me. ALSO!! why are we so invested in the very intimate details of the breakup of 2 young people? weird. EDIT: joshua is not a teenager whoops
I love rewatching these just for my chat appearances
LOOL
i've thought she was in the wrong from the beginning, and no one wanted to hear me out about it. i don't like the way our culture is moving that everyone just automatically decided josh and sabrina were the villains. it just seems like she sat back and let the general public massacre these two and did nothing about it. all the hate got way out of control.
I agree... I think Olivia is very talented but the fact that "good for you" came out after all the drama that "driver license" generated, with all the things she says about him there, and with all the world knowing or at least presuming it was about joshua... it made me really uncomfortable and it's not a good look on her
I agree I like some of her songs but her inaction kind of tainted her image in my eyes
YUP. And Olivia hasn't spoken up about the hate Joshua has been getting because she needs to please the rabid fans, because those rabid fans are often the ones who stream music like it's drugs and worship her to the max. I love her music but I really think she's much less innocent than the image her team has curated for her.
She really showed why she deserves to be an ex eh?
On one hand it’s almost a compliment to her as an artist that she was able to encapsulate her teenage heartbreak and rage so well that fans were able to empathize with it to the point that they seem to think they were feeling it firsthand. Unfortunately that rage came as villainizing her ex, which most people do even unfairly after a heartbreak. And usually that’s okay because it stays an internal processing of emotions.
But honestly even within the context of the song his big sin was breaking up with her and not being sad enough afterwards. People don’t owe you a relationship or mourning of it in your timeline. Sure, she’s perfectly valid in feeling upset about it, her fans aren’t valid in punishing him for it (or his new gf who did nothing but get with a newly single man, how evil). I can’t believe a year later she’s still enabling this by not saying a word about it.
Omg thank you so much for covering this. This whole situation has me feeling really off so I'm glad to hear your perspective!
what bugs me about sour is that Joshua didn't even do anything that bad. after listening to sour i thought that he didn't treat Olivia well but listening again I realised that her greviances were that: they were over, he was happy and that she'd been left behind. which isn't bad at all.
exactly!!!! people saying about the whole situation( including people saying if they see him on the street they are going to kll him) “why tf should she care about an ex” like first of all olivia broke up with him, she was the one to make that decision and just like you said, people say it like she did something HORRIBLE to her.
ok i haven't finished watching the video but i do have to say as someone who followed sabrina way before drivers license im pretty sure that skin had been in the works for longer and wasn't just a retaliation.. fully correct me if im wrong but from what i remember sabrina had been promoting her song since before drivers license was announced and it's just the release date that was unfortunate
but that's just what my bad memory remembers so i could be way off lol
also i feel like skin was a pretty mature response. unless i missed something, she was basically saying she was taking the high road and hoped they could all put this behind them in the future. that's pretty tame since she was literally getting death threats about it
@@denomen3391 oh yeah 100%
especially when you consider all the hate she got (and still gets) from olivia stans over what were essentially dating rumors. she could've easily gone the petty route but (and not to hate on olivia, i don't really care for the situation) sabrina and joshua i feel handled the situation really maturely
The only person I can bring myself to feel bad for in this situation is Sabrina carpenter she didn't deserve that
Honestly I do think that she is responsible, but let me explain. When she choose to not say anything to her fans that are there to support her and are motivated by her music, she is responsible, because if she had said something and it didn't impact the way it should, than okay, I would say she did what she could and her fans didn't listen to her, but she choose to say nothing, because all this drama benefited her in all the possible ways. I believe that as an artist you can write anything you want obviously, but also we have to understand that what you do, what you write have and in that case had huge consequences, for Josh and Sabrina. When you make a song that literally puts other people life's in danger, making them having death treats and having a heart failure then as an artist you have to take the responsibility for what you wrote and do the bare minimum that is ask your fans to treat people with kindness ( like Joshua did) .
I'm not hating on Olivia, and about their relationship I don't have an opinion because first it's not of my business and second we don't know what truly happened. But everyone immediately took Olivia perspective as the true. And also something that I will call out Olivia for, she loves talking about woman supporting woman, something I stand for completely, but she didn't though that when HER fans were calling Sabrina horrible names as a bitch, only for dating Josh.
I think Olivia had every right to express her feelings through her art, but much like with Taylor Swift, I don’t think fans have any business “canceling” or ridiculing people because of a relationship that had nothing to do w them
"I am so caught up in the news like who likes me and who hates you"
She knows what is happening.
I only listened to the song because i found out it was about sabrina, so i guess there is some truth to the theory that it wouldn't have been so big without the drama. But Olivia is very talented and her songs are good. That being said, stream SC5 when it comes out and stream fast times!
First video I've seen of yours and I love it! Such a fair and intelligent way to approach the topic. Now, off to marathon the rest of your uploads :D
Love this video!! I've always thought it was ridiculous how people get so invested in celebrity dating like it's part of their life. I get this is public information, but if we didn't go snooping on it publications wouldn't post it. We wouldn't be so intrusive for other people in our lives!
I think Olivia is playing by Taylor's Swift playbook, which is never name names and never speak of exes in public or social media. However, it worked for Taylor because at the time the internet wasn't as obsessive and Stan-like as it is now, and only the tabloids were mentioning the drama. Olivia needs to realize the time of Taylor's peak with songs drama is very different than today's standards and she needs to adapt.
I was actually a huge fan of Sabrina and Olivia when this came out. However, when I found out about the drama behind Drivers License, it really didn’t sit right with me. At first I was defending them both, thinking that y’know Olivia didn’t mean ill intent, it was literally just a song about how she felt on a break up whereas Sabrina just happened to date Joshua after he broke up with Olivia. But with the release of Deja Vu and Good 4 U, it became apparent to me that there were a lot more bitter feelings about the entire thing that just made it difficult for me to enjoy her music.
As a Sabrina fan, Skin wasn’t the best choice but after dissecting the lyrics (like I do with Olivia as well), it felt more like Sabrina’s letter to the haters and a little towards Olivia since there were words of comfort and I personally didn’t think it was trying to be passive aggressive towards Olivia, rather just Sabrina telling her side. Sabrina moved on pretty quickly after that and when asked about Olivia and the drama on her interviews, she simply said it was not her place to talk about Olivia’s music and the message behind it. Which I found to be quite mature since she gave her side and even if it got hate, she moved on without thinking too much about it.
But the entire drama still felt very immature to me as it felt like fans were internalising Olivia’s lyrics and probably started attacking Joshua and Sabrina because they themselves may have been hurt in a similar way.
I really commend Joshua for putting out the text chain telling his fans not to send hate knowing that he’s going to put out music that may put Olivia in a bad light, knowing that there would be hate. I definitely think he and Sabrina has been more mature in this situation because at least they addressed it. Not saying that Olivia is the villain of this story, all of them played a part but I wish she did do things more gracefully
Don’t get me wrong, how the fans act is not something Olivia could control but I always felt that she could’ve done things more gracefully, could’ve posted a story saying that hate is unnecessary and that no one should be attacked for a relationship breaking apart. Now that probably wouldn’t have changed anything but at least it would’ve showed people and the young impressionable minds that listen to Olivia’s music that regardless of what others have done to you, it would be better to take the high road and move on eventually after you express your feelings.
Olivia just seemed to have been riding the drama wave since she or rather her management was promoting Drivers License months and months after it was released and it felt like that petty feeling still hung around for the release of her album but mainly because she probably wrote those songs when it first happened. It just felt like the drama went on for longer than it should’ve because of her album and the fans.
I also think at that time and as big as Driver's License, if Olivia asked her fans to stop harassing Joshua and Sabrina, it would just confirm that it was about them.
And that time with what I remember she mostly focusing on telling people to focus on the music instead.
In the people's eyes she was already the "victim" at that point so if she tells people that they'll just be "oh and look she's so kind even though he was an a-hole".
So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of scenario
idk how her fanbase became so negative in one year alone but they are almost worse than swifties at this point 😂😂 that new young artist lauren spencer-smiths new song broke approximately 1 record of drivers license being the fastest song to hit #1 on itunes and her fans have been saying rude stuff about this kind girl who is literally a fan of olivia it’s insane! they tore apart sabrina carpenter for simply dating the guy and have made disturbing comments about aspects of his life and traumas that i can’t imagine ever thinking it’s okay to say that about anyone! i think this has gotten to the point where i don’t see how olivia can stomach staying silent on the issue i would be sick to my stomach if someone said that in my name obviously it’s not her fault but i do think to a degree it is her responsibility to say something but it’s honestly kind of too late at this point for anything she says on it to mean much of anything it will just be for pr now that she’s getting a tiny bit of flack for not saying anything in the first place
*edit for spelling mistake 😂😂
at some point the kind of fanbase you gather starts reflecting ur own character, and her not saying anything is such a bad look for her
@@darcy325 honestly
Most of her fans are also swifties so it kinda makes sense
I believe that 80-85% of the fanbase projects the influencers or pop stars character. She’s old enough to take responsibility for her actions.
sabrina who was involved also put out a statement in january saying she doesnt want hate sent anyones way
I don’t understand why people were just glossing over the fact that THE WHOLE ALBUM was about him not just driver’s license and once you start thinking about that, it starts to get WEIRD
maybe not the whole album but yeah, olivia can express her feelings but when joshua or sabrina does it its "petty". it doesn't make any sense
I feel bad for the guy and Sabrina. I don’t think Olivia expected for things to go out the way they did, but damn... could’ve said something to her fans to calm them down
josh went through so much and handled it so maturely. i love him.
I love what you said about artist/fan proximity. I completely feel the same way. I honestly feel like that is the reason I haven't been able to enjoy listening to Taylor's Versions as much as the rest of the world has. While it is the music I love, when I listen to the re-recordings, it doesn't feel raw and honest. It feels tainted because of all the drama and hate.
Should people really have to say "just because I tell you my feelings, doesn't mean I need you to fight my battles" ?
It's really interesting and refreshing to see artists being aware of their place in media/parasocial stuff and trying to set boundaries about it, I feel it really brings some possible reflections/solutions to problems with the whole celebrity culture thing. I see a lot of critics towards celebrity cultures that only suggest to stop caring about celebrities but I feel that this ignores the place that media and culture featuring real people have in society so it's not a really viable solution for most people. So yeah seeing celebrities trying to control the narrative they are a part of and trying to be accountable and aware really feels like a step in the right direction towards something healthier
thank you for saying everything i was thinking about this, weird how being an artist these days also inadvertently comes with the responsibility of babysitting your audience
Music and song writing are therapeutic. Different perspectives on a situation between people that caused intense emotions. Each reacted as they knew best and these songs are the outcome of that. It's put out there to be appreciated for what has happened and the lessons learned, healing done.
It definitely annoyed me that Olivia didn’t ask her fans to stop the hate. Yes she’s young but she’s old enough to know that fans will shit on her ex and his new gf.
And she’s definitely smart enough and rich enough to have people telling her what’s happening online so she can speak up about it. Like where was her team?? And why didn’t she listen to them??
It amazes me how much internet drama/bullying that just goes over my head and never hear about until way later when I watch a RUclips video about it. I like Olivia rodrigos music, not drivers license ironically, other ones like brutal. But that’s how far I go as a fan ever. I’m not one to dig into them. Love you’re video breakdown o 💖
I have nothing but respect for Josh. I thought the drama with the "love triangle" was very much teenager behavior and I hated to see everyone so invested in it, especially adults. And Josh has truly from all the people being involved with it been the most mature, most kind, and most transparent of all of them. I highly respect his choice to not use it for business reasons. I highly respect his mindset over all with him just wanting to release his music, and giving this his truest self, and also spread compession and kindness into the world. He has been through so much this last year and he has been so open and vulnerable through all of it. And his music really is the same. It may not be technically perfect, it may not be the most polished, but it is so raw and that is what makes it unique and that is why he is one of my favorite artists right now. I just wish him so much that he can heal and that people will finally start to recognize him for his art.
i think that (young) artists forget their influence on their audience. people always talk about how audiences have a parasocial relationship w famous people, but i think famous people have one right back at us. olivia’s album felt like something i would only tell my bff in private. and i got broken up w a bit before her album came out, so when it came out, i was all for it. screaming the words in my car bc i was sad and upset, too. but what’s different is when i tell my bff, they’re not sending death threats to my ex bc they’re not unhinged. meanwhile, olivia tells her fans (who feel like her bffs) who are literally ANYBODY in the world with an internet/radio connection. and people get strong feelings and attack, especially when olivia tells in extreme heart breaking detail the pain she was in. i don’t think she even thought that her fans would feel so strongly for her personal life and send threats, but josh obviously did (bc he was targeted) and so he decided to be a bit more cautious bc he doesn’t want the crappy feelings he felt to go to her, which is so kind. you live and learn, and hopefully olivia along with other young artists will see how josh handled everything w a lot of maturity and do the same in the future (ie, not being so harsh about exes and heart break publically).
I love your view on this topic, and the way you articulate your opinion is so engaging and fair, can’t wait to watch more !
Personally, fans shouldn't feel like they're a direct extension of the artists they follow.
Thoughts as an older fan: I remember when as a teen I had to sit & tell myself that sad or break-up songs were made as the artists involved were going through the emotions. The songs I'm listening to on their albums are most likely not indicative of what they feel now.
Take it like a painting. I paint according to what I feel at the moment. Help it get it out of my system. When the painting's done, I don't feel the same way anymore, even if the painting's there forever.
Songs are literally not always about what fans think. They assume Taylor Swift wrote a whole album about Harry, but others argue it was about karlie and Dianna. The reality is she is a fiction writer who embellishes certain aspects of her own life and others to create art and content. Maybe drivers license was actually about Joshua, but it’s really not our business to assume
your take on this is the best one I've watched. it's easier to see things in black and white, but in reality it's mostly many shades of grey
omg youtube randomly suggested this video and, as a joshua fan, it is honestly revigorating seeing him not be automatically perceived as the "bad guy". also mentioning his ig story from when lie3 came out and how he went silent for the whole year and the message he sent before crisis/secret/smf!!! i literally never saw someone who's not a fan of his mentioning them and idk it's just good to see that
u speak really well ty you did a good job putting it into words