Yes! This is something I plan on touching on in another video. I probably could’ve expanded on it in this video, but given the horned warrior’s swords in the DLC, I’m currently leaning towards the idea that curved swords are symbolic of beasts horns/beastliness in general 👹
@@kixsicks I hope you can elaborate on the connections to the blue dancer because personally, the “blue clad warrior” I’d argue is more paralleled with Godwyn than Godfrey. I think a lot of context for Godfrey, or his lineage, conflicting with the Stormlord seems to be at Castle Sol and I don’t think it’s random there is so much Godwyn exposition there. Engvall and Oleg are directly referred as “Wings of the Stormlord” in the JP with Commander Niall guarding the castle for his “long passed master”. I think Castle Sol is one of the last bastions of the Sun Realm culture that predated Godfrey’s rule with the Stormlord likely being the figure head, possibly ruling over Stormveil at the time when the “true storm raged” and all that. “Incantation that channels the power of the ancient dragon Fortissax, now corrupted by Death. Strikes surroundings with a **storm of Death lightning**. Inflicts Death blight upon foes. Charging extends duration of the **storm**. It is said that this **golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn**, who befriended Fortissax.” The reason I bring up Godwyn is because his trademark Golden Lightning is coded into so many cultures that have associations with the Storm like the Banished Knights(all have thorn and dragon ornamentation) with Commander Niall himself wielding it, the Stormhawk Axe dual wielded by Nepheli just like Godwyns knights(they have a Stormhawk on their cape) who also has a connection to the Stormclans judging from her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”, Dancing Divine Beasts/Horned warriors, etc. You also have the Deathbirds inflicting Deathblight like the Divine Beasts and we know birds/hawks have an affiliation with the Storm. ⛈️
@@puzzleheaded6195 Damn there is a lot to think about here. I definitely think its fair speculation to assume that storm culture being intergrated into the Golden Lineage began with Godwyn and the founding of the Ancient Dragon Cult. While I’m not certain, I’d say it’s even possible that the founding of the ADC predates Marika’s acquisition of the Elden Ring, and that Godwyn may have played a signicant role in that, given his title, “The Golden”. I also agree regarding Castle Sol belonging to the now lost Sun Realm, and extend that to both Castles Stormveil and Redmane as well. The only counter argument regarding storm culture being specific to Godwyn and not Godfrey, aside from Godfrey’s battle with the Storm Lord and Stormveil Castle itself, in my opinion, is Nepheli Loux. It seems explicit that she comes from the same culture of badland warriors that Godfrey led in his time after exile. She shares Hoarah’s family name, and seems to deeply revere storm culture. Of course, it could be true of the Golden Order’s lineage in general, but Nepheli seems to be directly tied to Godfrey, and she herself is motivated by restoring the storm to its former glory, as it has been sullied by the Golden Lineage, though that may exclusively be Godrick’s fault. “I will call upon the storm, to drive away the foulness that has settled on the winds.” Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but I’m curious what parallels between the Blind Swordsman and Godwyn there are? Aside from Godwyn’s subjugation of Fortisaxx, which I do think is a fair parallel, and probably stems from the culture Godwyn inherited from Godfrey. Again, sorry if I’m just misunderstanding your point, it’s getting late where I am 😅 Thanks for the engaging lore discussion though, I do really appreciate it 😃
@@kixsicks I agree that Godwyn might’ve taken influence from Godfrey and even go as far as to claim he earned his name “Godwyn” similarly through a beast hunt and then forming a union but I need to connect Godwyn to the Storm before tying him to the Blue Dancers which I believe come from the Sun Realm, like all Tarnished. There’s a video on YT by DondonRV where he goes over the Design Works of Elden Ring. Mind you, this guy is not a Loretuber and I can’t speak for his sources but at about (8:16:32) there are slides that confirm it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many things, biggest one being the winds always traveling east(Margit cutscene confirms this), making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. These “tainted winds” are caused by Godrick as stated by Nepheli and they always travel in the same direction, towards Farum Azula. This also is why most of the damage is always focused on the western facing parts of buildings, gates, walls, etc. While looking at cut content did you ever come upon the Exile Hood in the 1.0 description? It directly states the reason they wear those hoods is to protect their heads, preventing the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I strongly believe this is why the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction with Stormveil likely meeting the same fate down the road. The Marred Leather Shield of course alludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning/stormcaller which is likely what he is doing in his half-state. This is also why you find so many Godwyn items/monument detailing the “routing of the dragons” near Stormcaller Church Imo I’ve suspected for a while that the Tarnished come from the Sun Realm judging from that dialogue in the intro “ye dead who yet live” but more importantly, from Nepheli who is Tarnished like us and Rogier who takes Godwyns death personally, weeping to Fia when talking about it. The Stormhawk Axe she dual wields like Godwyns Death Knights with Golden Lightning has the same tentacle pattern as Godfrey’s Axe who also share similarities with the FA Beastmen who live in an TWLID city in the sky. Given that the Axe is found in Sol and the Roundtable Hold(all the forts are next to the ocean) it makes me think the Stormhawk/Stormclans were the original builders of Stormveil who worshiped the Eclipse with the Mausoleum knights and originally, many of the banished knights, before being transitioned under Godfrey’s rule. Nepheli is evidence of this since she wields it and reinforces it with her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk” and “summoning the storm” also chosen by the Stormhawk King and Kenneth Height, Erdtree royalty who recognizes her “proper lineage” instead of Godricks who is confirmed to be Godfrey’s Blood. It’s curious she only helps you with the Godrick and Godfrey fight and talks about witnessing a massacre when she was young which was likely Horauh after being tamed by Serosh described by the Giant Crusher which details “man turning against man in violence” after the Giants were felled. You find the Brick Hammer in Stormveil and Nepheli gives you the Arsenal Charm which belonged to the Morne Avenger, an entity Godfrey faced in the Weeping Peninsula and a place where it’s always raining(it rains in the Duskborn Ending too) and you find Fulgarbloom which only grows in “lightning struck” lands. Her storyline is evocative of that story because she finds a massacred village and enacts justice without realizing it was her own “father” and I often wonder if she could be retelling Godwyns story. Maybe Godrick calls the dragon a “trueborn heir” for a reason since the book with the oldest dragon cult Incantations is found in Farum Azula stating “never reached the Lands Between”. If the Stormhawk King, Farum Azula, and the Dragon Cult are all implications of any sort of emerging religious following / cult of personality that is all connected by Godwyn with the ancient dragons, that would very well make him a veneration of a golden scion of the Erdtree. If multiple contingencies in the Lands Between that Marika had conquered but not annihilated began to rally around an alternative figure with a legitimate claim to power, that sounds like it could be a problem for Marika and if that figure’s following simultaneously had the effect of legitimizing a previous order’s claim to power, kind of like Gwyn and his Firstborn from Dark Souls who similarly wielded Golden Lightning, had a storm companion, and was removed from the annals of history for siding and starting a cult with the Ancient Dragons, that starts to sound like big trouble for Marika. Were this dynamic actually to play out, I it would be an argument that I’d find credible for why Marika might have been involved in Godwyn’s death.
I also tend to look at the dancing attack that radahn uses. The kaiden use single curved swords, while radahn uses two, and while you fight him during miquella's ascension, he launches into a light and quick flowing combo similar to the dancing fighting styles we've seen from old numen cultures. Its like hes merging traditional and ancient fighting styles together.
This also wraps a neat bow around why Fortissax was "befriended" and taught Lightning to Godwyn Lightning and Ancient dragons are to Godwyn what the Storm and Serosh are to Godfrey Subjugation of savage beasts via ritual combat to gain their power; mirrored again in "Bear communion" and Dragon communion
Incredible video Kick, it was everything I thought it would be and more. Tying all of that together was art- I LOVED the Zamor reference and especially the Blue Dancer. Absolutely wild you had worked most of this out BEFORE the DLC :')
@@ScumMageInfa if only it didnt take me 7 months to release a 20 minute video 😪 Thank you so much for all your help and support Infa, I literally could not have made this video without you 💛
Very well explained and reasoned. One thing I would question a little is the theory that Godfrey was sent on the long march because he wasn't a compatible leader for an era of stability. There is logic to that, but in the same breath that Marika sent the tarnished away, she also told them that they'd be summoned back eventually. Godfrey didn't fit into the era that she was building, but I think an even bigger reason to send him away was so that he could fight, die, and become strong, and potentially become Elden Lord again when necessary. She was stowing him away for a rainy day, in a way.
Wowowow! So many great insights! I'm so on board with the Zamor, Kaiden, Hornsent, and Hoarah Loux at least engaging in significant cultural exchange if not all sharing a common ancestor. And tying in the blind swordsman is brilliant. I've never associated him with Godrey before but you make such a compelling case I'm on board! Great insights and great video! Thanks for sharing! These ideas mesh well with and even fill in some holes in my head cannon.
@@Elden_dorK Thanks so much for the feedback and kind words, I really appreciate it! 😊 I mentioned this in another comment, but something I left out of this video I probably couldve included in the “family tree” segment, was that the common ancestor of all of these peoples may have been the giants. As said in the description of the Northerners in the character creator, they are believed to be the descendants of giants. Which is expanded upon by the description of the Giant-Crusher: “After the giants were quelled, and man turned against man in violence, this weapon was all but forgotten. Man has grown feeble in comparison to his forebears. “ Also, Godfrey, the Kaiden, and the trolls all use roar abilities themselves, roars being explicitly tied to the giants via the Roar Medallion. And the Talisman of All Crucibles is something “rumored to have sprouted upon giants”.
Amazing video, you tied together everything about Godfrey, I never thought that he might actually want to die (in a glorious battle) and therefore leave the lands between. It also makes sense why Radahn wanted to die even after agreeing to be Miquella’s consort. In the age of Marika with destined death removed it is quite hard to prove yourself a worthy warrior. As long as you have grace you are immortal so in order to actually kill somebody an incredible power is required. Miquella wasn’t able to kill Radahn even with scarlet rot and Tarnished is a proof of grace-driven “easy mode” in battle. We may die thousand times before eventually killing a demigod, but we will win as long as we keep fighting death after death. Props to Radahn for being a fanboy to the end, he didn’t cut corners on his way to become a warrior like Godfrey.
I used to talk about this on reddit all the time. Its also worth mentioning the connections surrounding roars, something used by Godfrey, highlanders, trolls and beasts. We've already established highlanders are related to Godfrey. The beasts are obvious since Godfrey conquered them. The trolls are interesting in that both trolls and the northerner race are believed to be descendants of giants. Meaning Godfrey may have himself been a descendent of giants. Diminutive giants are something also mentioned by the sword of Milos description. I mean the giants up north also just blatantly have very different sizes as observed by their various corpses. The roar medallion depicts a roaring giant. So there is all those connections regarding Godfrey, giants, and roars as well.
I love your connections it seems so obvious now that you’ve pointed it out, I’m pretty much relating any enemy who uses a war cry with Godfrey atp (Kaiden, Messmer soldiers, maybe even trolls) I am kinda thinking that the Kaiden we see in TLB are the latest evolution of this clan as opposed to an accurate depiction of the clan during the height of its power, but otherwise great lore man looking forward to the next
I actually had a segment on roars that I ended up cutting, but I definitely think this is the case! Basically, I just compared the roar abilities of Godfrey to the Kaiden, beastmen, and trolls. Given what the character creator says about Northerners; “A face found among the hardy people of the unforgiving north. Some say they're descended from giants.” It seems like both trolls and northerners are descendants of giants, who are strongly associated with roar abilities via the Roar Medallion. Tbh I probably could’ve expanded the family tree thing to include giants and trolls, but oh well 😅
@ I’m to the point of assuming that the family tree would be accurate, that the giants are definitely related. It seems like the evolution in Elden Ring definitely makes people smaller and less horny lmao
@ “After the giants were quelled, and man turned against man in violence, this weapon was all but forgotten. Man has grown feeble in comparison to his forebears.”
Phenomenal video! These were all conclusions that I came to on my own (including the curved swords connections) as well so seeing someone else do it is so awesome! Different roads sometimes lead the same castle. Keep up the great work!
@@JackisaMimic Thanks so much for the words of encouragement, I really appreciate it! 😁😊 Btw I’m eagerly anticipating your next video, the thumbnail and title make my brain-worms writhe 🫨 cant wait to watch!
@@SaintTrinaLore Thanks so much Trina! ❤️ Not only for the kind words and support, but for all the engaging lore discussions, streams and videos, and for providing a community for me to babble about my lore ideas. You are dearly appreciated 🫵🥰
This turned out beautifully! Good catches on the settlement phrasing and the beat hunting culture of the Highlands. Looking forward to what you post next!
Great video my friend :) Totally agree that the Kaidens descend from the highlanders. I think the Zamor are part of the hornsent culture, thus the masks, dancey moveset, storms, similar coloration, and feathers, but I think the the more barbaric Highlanders are just another clan alongside them. I think the hornsent helped in defeating the Fire Giants and then Marika betrayed them, and I think the betrayal was killing the stormlord and removing destined death. I think the blue dancer was a part of or related to the dancey hornsent-ish culture, and definitely related to the Dancers of Ranah and Tanith.
i subscribe to the radagon usurper theory and how it ties into marika telling godfrey not very callously to leave then return. and with the messmer crusade happening around this time i think that was marika trying to appease the fundamentalists and sending her son that can burn magic stuff away just incase. all the black knights in the dlc have crucible power and my head cannon theory is they are godfreys crucible knights that really dont wanna be there but they are making the best of it. the messmer foot soldiers have a pseudo celtic/anglo-saxon/norse-ish appearance sorta like the highlanders and kaiden, but the important thing is they were forced to be there. and they might have ties to the banished knights and exiled soldiers.
It’s always the guys with barely any subscribers and a couple videos who have the most banger of theory’s. Also how has nobody figured this out yet? You’re the first one I’ve seen make the Kaiden, Highland, Godfrey connection and it’s right in your face.
This would be a great explanation for why the character player in so much Elden Ring promotional content is shown wearing the Raging Wolf Set: "Armor worn by Vargram the Bloody Wolf, one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold." The Bloody Wolf was also one of five starting classes in the Closed Network Test: "The Wolf is cunning, steadfast and deadly. These warriors have no fear and face down death with unmatched vigor and pride." The design of the set is very similar to Kaiden warriors, with the helmet donning hair, the armor with (white wolf) fur, the red coloring, and the descriptions mentioning being the first Tarnished (those would likely be followers of Godfrey), and the lack of fear of death.
@@davidchola6550 Thanks for sharing! I wasn’t aware of the class description for the Bloody Wolf! It definitely corresponds with what I was saying about Godfrey’s attitude towards death. And the fact he is “one of the first Tarnished” opens the possibility that Vargram was of Kaiden descent as well. Thanks again for your thoughts! 😃
Im so stoked you brought up the banished knights connection to Godfrey. After watching you Stormviel video, I went down a fat rabbit hole about the banished knights. After an hour of research, I came to the conclusion that banished knights were the Stormlords men that Godfrey captured and kept, who he then gave to Godwyn. The interesting part is that we can almost say with certainty that Godwyn was given control of most of them more recently since we have many instances of them participating in Dragon Communion be it the incantations or guarding the communion temple. We also see them at Godwyn specific locations like Fera Masula and Castle Sol. So my running theory is that after they were defeated, Godwyn took them in while Godfrey took care of the Stormlords family (hence Nepheli's tie to the Loux name while also being able to have the special stormhawk spirit ash). Godfrey came back to the capital where Marika takes his and his mens grace. Forcing the tarnished to leave. The Banished Knights would remain with Godwyn till his death. Where they wouldve been completely homeless since Stormviel was wrecked, Godfrey was out of town, and Godwyn was no more. So these Ronin like figures just migrated to where they felt they had more purpose. This is where Godrick comes in to "lead" the Banished Knights of Stormviel.
Hey I might be crazy but I read somewhere that all the Tarnished originated from the Warrior class and later reclassed to something else. Anyways I enjoyed your video with great points such as Godfrey being receptive to Death. Godfrey is such a fascinating character and the way he just appeared after restoring Death is very telling.
Great first video man. Love the indepth analysis of the item descriptions. So happy Scum Mage Infa recommended you. I've been subscribed and waiting since yesterday for you to drop your video. Can't wait for the next one. You've got me thinking about the timeline abit different. Like could Godfrey actually have been with Marika before the Golden order was fully established and once he had waged war and got rid of all opposition it wasn't till then that she divested him of his grace and then removed the rune of death as how else could he have killed all opposition if they couldn't die. Also as you've proven war without death wouldn't of been of interest to Godfrey. I'm probably wrong here. The timeline is so confusing.
Yes, I think youre pretty spot on with this! The way I’m imagining it at the moment is, prior to the age of the Golden Order, Godfrey and Marika were one faction of many, much like the demigods during The Shattering. For instance, there are ancient Tarnished that were a part of the Round Table, who utilise forces one would not expect to be a part of Marika’s Golden Order, ie. Vargram (using the Godslayer’s Greatsword) and Alberich (using thorn sorcery). In short, I think Marika and Godfrey were definitely important people in the past, they just didn’t rule over everything. After establishing their rule, Marika began excising aspects of TLB she previously coexisted with
From what I understand, Godfrey was either with Marika or working for her since the tail end of the Crucible Era at the latest, meaning that Godfrey as Hora Loux was likely subject of Marika since before Dragons controlled the Elden Ring. That's right, Godfrey was a good boi even before Farum Azula. The Golden Order came WAY after that and was a creation of Radagon, AFTER Godfrey was exiled. It's hard to realize just how much time has passed between eras, and how many eras there were. Hora Loux was one of the earliest humans, predating Elden John and the Ancient Dynasty. He was exiled because he was an archaic and troublesome reminder of a bloody past and Marika would need him later with his strength undiminished by lack of conquest
i'm absolutely down to be corrected, it would help me understand. But I think there is a faction called the Erdtree Faithful, that gets replaced by the Golden Order with Radagon. The reasons I believe this are that the golden order incantations require intelligence, something Radagon could have picked up with Renalla and the references of a past age by characters like Ranni. There is also a description somewhere that says something like, With Radagons union to Marika, his children became demigod step children. You could look at it as symbolic, but the union with Marika is him literally melding with her, making his children who were already born, into demigods from this event. I think when Marika says "let us be shattered together" pieces of them are being smashed together, while their children pick up the other remaining pieces. think of a person made of a puzzle, one person was remade with 2 complete puzzles, so there are excess pieces to pick up.
Biggest wall I have with any Kaiden theory is that the Kaiden don't wield axes. It seems so bizarre considering they are literally depicted with an axe on the Axe Talisman. Such overwhelming evidence tying the two together (didn't see it mentioned but Kaiden literally means "warrior" in Celtic), except the most iconic part of Godfrey, his Axe, does not match. This tells me there has to be a specfic reason for them changing to curved GSs. Great video mate.
@@shinyhydreigon7257 Thanks for the kind words and input! I kind of glossed over it for the sake of being easier to follow along, but I think its probably more accurate to say Godfrey is a Highlander/Northener, and the Kaiden are the descendants of those people, granting a small amount of wiggle room. One possible explanation I have is, if it is true that the Blind Swordsman was a Highlander as well, we could infer the weapons of choice for the highlanders included both axes and curved swords. While the Kaiden use a great curved sword, the dismounter, its interesting that the item description compares the dismounter to both a hatchet, specifically a single-sided axe, and a scimitar: “This curved greatsword wielded by the brawny sellswords of Kaiden combines the blades of a scimitar with the heft of a hatchet. “ If it’s not intentional, which I think it probably is, it’s at least a nice coincidence. Thanks again! 😁
@@kixsicks Yeh I had the same idea looking at the Dismounter description. Obviously not concrete but cool that you read it that way too. You just made me realise that despite the Highlander set appearing in the DLC, I don't think we actually find any of them there. But just now while typing this, I can't help but think the Messmer Soldiers might actually be the Highlanders. Biggest connection obviously being the Stomp and the Axe they use. And while digging through fextra, I realised the Kaiden are described as Sellswords. Do sellswords all wear the same armor? Perhaps it was given to them by Godfrey inspired by the Highlander's? Makes me think Godfrey/Marika rallied the inhabitants of the Mountaintops to kill the giants, Kaiden included. And some of them followed Godfrey all the way through his march. We do find Kaiden/Zamor/Trolls in Weeping/Limgrave after all. I still wonder why the Kaiden Settlement isn't found in-game. Sorry for the ramble lol.
Kix, what a spectacular display of interntwined information! My skepticism flew away and I got absorbed by all the information, stuff that I already knew but never connected the dots. Just, chef's kiss! Or rather, a chieftain's warcry! Simply superb and fantastically well grounded. Absolutely incorporating whatever I didn't know into my headcanon. The connections with the Blind Swordsman were a little loose, but not by much and it really makes me wanna investigate this more. Can't wait for future content.
@@BrownHairL Your kind words, support and constructive criticism mean the world. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and share your thoughts, its very much appreciated! 😊😁
Thisis exactly the type of content i adore. I love listening to thoughtful lore vids while playing games and this channels perfect for stalker, il be subbing an following your stuff, great work good sir!
Kaiden are one of my favourite enemies from the game, and seeming them tied so brilliantly to Godfrey is exciting. Also, big thanks for placing all the lore solely within the context of the game-world, not invoking real-life vikings or norse myth. Whatever the developers' inspirations were for ER, I find it more compelling to engage the game on the terms they laid out for us to experience, not by way of real-world analogies. It's much more immersive. I particularly like the irony of "subjugating beasts" with Godfrey, since Serosh symbolically subjugated him during his time as Lord, scaling down his battle-lust. Only point I don't find convincing is the inclusion of the slender Zamor knights in the potential lineage of divine bird -> horned -> godfrey -> kaiden line. But very interesting thinking! Nice Sirris armour btw. And can't wait for the Death Rite Bird & Runebear videos. You have a great presentation style.
@@ianwilliams2632 Thanks so much for the kind words and constructive criticism, it means a lot! While I probably will touch upon some real world parallels in the future, it isn’t something I’m interested in leaning on too heavily, for exactly the reasons you’ve stated. i think for the most part, the games can speak for themselves. I have more thoughts to share regarding Godfrey and Serosh’s relationship, but I don’t want to say too much while the idea is still half-baked. To be frank, I’m not 100% on board with any of the speculation presented in this video. Anything not concrete in this game must be taken with a grain of salt. I just hadn’t heard anyone else talk about this stuff before, and there are enough parallels I figured it was at least worth exploring a little. Hopefully future videos don’t take as long to make as this one. Thanks again for the feedback! And I’m definitely glad to see you can appreciate the fashion 😁
Ok great in-depth video, subbed and look forward to more of your work The Axe Talisman tie in has made me 98% onboard with everything you got here, just some things: I think Hora Loux was one of the earliest 'humans' and predated the Kaiden culture by a lot so it is more accurate to say that the mindset Hora Loux started as the lord of Leyndel had roots in the ancestors of the Kaiden rough mountain warrior culture, and shaped it through his actions. The second thing I have to disagree with you on is why Marika took Grace from Godfrey and the Tarnished under his command. But this is a common thing everyone disagrees on though I have not yet had such a well documented public space to share my thoughts on this: I think Marika took the grace from Godfrey for many reasons, and the choice to do it all was according to her long-term plan 1) Godfrey can only be what he is, a brilliant force of martial destruction, if he has a constantly stronger enemy to fight. He fought and defeated ALL of those in the Lands Between, so before Godfrey could 'get worn out and rusted from lack of challenge' she sent him, as a mortal, overseas where he could fight and retain his edge and strength, and then die at his peak to await the next part of her plan: The remaking of the Elden Ring 2) His rowdiness was troublesome, Marika was divesting Grace of its red primal nature (so effectively only dragons and a few weapons remember), she could not have him charging into the dining hall and throwing golden hippo corpses on the table and demanding the cooks prepare it immediately when holding matters of state with Caria and the Nox 3) The Omen Twins. I don't think she ever forgave Godfrey for impregnating her with the face of her people's genociders, even though Godfrey had zero part or responsibility Marika had set up contingency after contingency of which we are only ONE of many. Godfrey was another she had prepped for millennia for the purpose of being a strong enough lord to reunite the Elden Ring (and fix her mistake of removing Death from the natural cycle(whether she thought this was a mistake is still up for debate)), There are so many she orchestrated, or tried to (I think she deliberately setup the merchants to experience undeserved tragedy as an EXPERIMENT in summoning/creating an outer god and bit off more than she could chew when she lost Vyke to it) And I believe she got the knowledge from that from the tablets taken from the ancient Rauh civilization and is at the heart of 'spirit currency' and 'immortal essence'. But back to Godfrey. Again thank you for this detailed and well visualized in-depth exploration and I am thrilled to have all weekend to think about this. Also something to consider: Godfrey's portrait in Stormveil is of his broken axe, how? According to the timeline it broke AFTER being exiled. UNLESS an artist FROM across the fog was brought over, or maybe there's commerce and trade? The Confessors mention Marika's churches in other lands.
I have to say, I love the image you painted of Godfrey slamming a hippo corpse on the table like it’s a leg of ham 😂 But yes these are all great points and I broadly agree with pretty much everything you’ve said! I definitely think Godfrey’s exile isn’t something that can be explained with a single point. To your first point, 100%. Godfrey had exhausted all worthy challenges in TLB, and so was sent afar to “grow strong in the face of death”, to keep his blade from growing dull, so to speak. Your second point I also strongly agree with, and I have a lot to say on this, but will save it for the future. In short, I see it like, in order to overthrow the reigning order of her time, Marika had to essentially fight fire with fire, much like Rykard is attempting to do, before “extinguishing” her own “flame” as well. As for the painting of Godfrey, this touches on something I ended up cutting from the video, where I was going to compare Godrick and Nepheli Loux. I think Nepheli is essentially Godfrey’s “true heir”, embodying Godfrey’s true nature as Hoarah Loux. Whereas Godrick is more obsessed with the image of being a mighty, noble king. He pursues what his lineage has chosen to remember about Godfrey, not who he really was. “After falling from grace, the dregs of the golden lineage sought power and purpose in the past.” So I think this painting, and perhaps others, may have been created by the Golden Lineage in their attempts to romanticise, and borderline fetishise, their ancestor. Thanks so much for the thought-provoking feedback, I really appreciate it! 😁
@@kixsicks Ok wow I LOVE how your mind works: That comparison of Nepheli Loux and Godrick is just perfect and is probably worth a video in itself. I got that feeling seeing all the 'goldish' decorations added to Stormveil compared to the simple brilliance of Grace If you don't have a patreon you really need to make one, this work is value
@@arglebargle42 Thanks so much! An analysis of Godfrey and Nepheli is something that probably wouldn’t take as long as some of the other topics I have in mind at the moment, so thats a good idea. I’ll do my best to get the ball rolling! 😁
@@arglebargle42 The explanation would be that the artist used to march with Godfrey had this painting with him and was found by one of the sicons that Godrick sent. In history it wasn't uncommon to have painters document the history on battlefield when nothing was happening.
I fucking love this video, I feel dumb for not making these connections before. Now personally I don't believe they were all a single people but rather the similitudes between them show that at some point in history they all belonged in more or less the same time frame before Marika's Erdtree reign. I feel like all these warmongering shamanistic cultures are supposed to be analogous to the many Barbarian peoples that migrated into the Roman Empire after its fall (Fallen Sun/Dragon Realm) while they were also being converted to christianity (Primordial Erdtree-Crucible Religion).
Great video, perhaps the 8 pointed star ( think fell god)and the spiral motif ( think hornsent culture) had something to do with Kaiden culture and/or Godfrey’s culture during the age of the crucible? All motifs and ideas they had to let go of during the ascendency of the erdtree?
First off, great job on your first lore video! I remember watching a really good theory on why marika banished godfrey and the tarnished but i dont remember who its from. Basically the theory as i remember it mirrored miquella and marikas stories throughout the realm of shadow, but the part that ties in most is about st. trina and how she warns divinity would be a prison for miquella. Going a bit further down the mirrored origins theory, if this is the case and miquella did in part know it would be his prison, perhaps marika did, or found out along the way, and chose to make arrangements to end her imprisonment on her terms i.e. having warriors she knew would be powerful enough to reach and free marika by her death. Im sure im misremembering some pieces of it in some way, but i found it compelling and was reminded of it while watching your video.
@@majrbacon1293 Thanks so much for the positive feedback! 😁 And if you ever do remember that video please let me know! Id love to check it out and see if it could help flesh out my understanding 😃
It didn't occur to me that Zamor had storm powers as well, like Godfrey/Niall/Nepheli Loux/Hornsent warriors. Of course, they only have blizzard/ice storm magic, and not lightning, but still. I wonder if that magic is more of a natural gift to them, as opposed to something learned or culturally instilled?
Hey there friend! I came over on suggestion of Scum Mage Infa, whose become as of recently one of my favorite creators on the ER lore space. With his recommendation I was primed to see good content here and you absolutely delivered. Godfrey (and his past and lineage) happens to be my favorite character, and subsequently one of kf my favorite subject matters within Elden Ring, so it was a nice little treat to be introduced to a new creator with this subject matter in focus. Anyways, I feel like you really did an outstanding job here my friend, particularly for a first entry. You should be proud. Im subbed up, and looking forward to your next release, whenever that may be. Ok, see ya!
I had previously seen a video stating that Godfrey was a highlander due to his bear-like fighting style but as soon as you mentioned the resemblance between the Kaiden and Highlander helmets I was sold on the title. It also checks out chronologically of the Kaidens are the “new” highlander forces since we know that Godfrey went from being Hoarah Loux (highlander phase) to donning his axe and Godfrey title, and we only hear of Kaidens using axes in honour of their lord
Very insightful video! Another curious detail I found is that on the two-handed sword talisman the horned warrior holds a dismounter, a weapon of the kaiden sellswords. Not sure what it tells us about their relations though
@SchansKir Thanks for the kind words! Oh wow I think you’re right, the blade, the hilt and the bandages all line up. It definitely lends credence to the idea the highlanders descend from the horned warriors! I mentioned this in another comment, but if its true that the Blind Swordsman is of Kaiden descent as well, its interesting that the dismounter is compared to both a hatchet, specifically a single-sided axe, and a scimitar in its item description! “This curved greatsword wielded by the brawny sellswords of Kaiden combines the blades of a scimitar with the heft of a hatchet. “ Thanks so much for sharing! 😄
Great theory!, 1)also i would like to add that horah-loux literally just fights like a red bear(their attacks are too similar) and his eruption attack he does is just a variation of attack done by rea bear and gurranq! (Side note):-it's also interesting that maliketh is the one that gives us beast claw great hammer which is directly linked to serosh!,and both serosh and maliketh are blind and have similar armor,ontop of that gurranq hides in farum azula and disguised himself as a beast clergyman of farum) so idk if the 2 fingers really created maliketh for marika like blaidd was created ranni or just chose a very powerful beast clergman from farum after marika and godfrey conquered it and shadow bounded gurranq to marika! 2)Godfrey's axe has same patterns as beastmen cleavers so it could be possible if the axe originally belonged to serosh! 3)We find lord's bestowal talisman in shadowkeep and many of messmer's soilders have crucible stomps,roar and have axes aswell! 4)one i would disagree about godfrey is that i don't think he was obsessed with death rituals and that being the reason for marika to disagree with him but i believe she outright favored godfrey over radagon like they had differences sure but the banishement was her masterplan and trusting in godfrey to carry it out and she always calls him "my lord" and his image isn't tainted even after his banishment,also godfrey's willingness to keep serosh even in badlands and coming back to become marika's lord again which wouldn't be the case if she treated him like shit during his time as her consort,godfrey could just ignore grace like other tarnished did,and some cut dialogue suggests godfrey truely loved marika and is there to rescue her! unlike radagon and marika who are always in opposition in pretty much everything and she literally calls him a dog!
@@Blondie-the-good Thanks for the thorough response! 1) Yes! This is something I discussed in another comment chain, where someone challenged my opinion that Godfrey may not have literally devoured his fallen opponents. Given the introduction of Bear Communion in the DLC, and the similarites you’ve just mentioned, I don’t this it’s unreasonable to suggest Godfrey has partook in Bear Communion himself. Regarding Maliketh, I do not think he was “created” by the Two Fingers in the same way it’s believed Blaidd was. Given the Beast Claw incantations account: “This incantation represents the fury of Gurranq, his bestial nature returned…” I believe Gurranq was originally a beast clergyman, before his role as Marika’s shadow. I believe it was only after Marika betrayed him that he “regressed” to his former state. 2) Yes! This is yet another subject I had a segment covering that didn’t make it into the final video. Further evidence to support this is that the crowns worn by the Beastmen, Serosh, and Godfrey are all extremely similar. Credit to @Sinister Stromboli for pointing that out to me! 3) Another hard agree! This is something I plan on exploring further in the future, but I definitely think Messmer’s soldiers and the Black Knights have strong ties to Godfrey. 4) This is something I maybe could’ve explained better in the video. I don’t think Godfrey was obsessed or wielded the power of death in in manner. But rather, was simply comfortable existing alongside death. Another piece of evidence to suggest this, imo, would be Vargram, an ancient Tarnished, who wields the Godslayer’s Greatsword, the sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen herself. As to Marika’s treatment of Godfrey compared to Radagon, I 100% agree. I’m not sure what is going on exactly, but it is definitely intriguing that even when explaining that Godfrey is to be exiled she still refers to him as “My Lord”. The fact she’s even taking the time to explain this to Godfrey and the Tarnished makes it seem more like a mutually agreed upon plan, rather than a betrayal. As discussed in other comment chains, it seems part of the reason she drove Godfrey from TLB was so he could continue to “grow strong in the face of death”, something that may have proved difficult after having defeated his last worthy enemies, and Marika sealed the Rune of Death. Regarding Radagon, and without saying too much now, I think it’s extremely interesting that Marika refers to Radagon as her “other self” and compares Radagon to a hound in the same breath. I wasn’t aware of some of this cut dialogue so I’ll have to do some investigating! Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it! 😄
I think Godfrey banished is more of a political reason for Marika to invade the hornsent, since we have some evidence they may have been allies beforehand. Mesmer soldiers use fighting styles influenced by Godfrey, and there is a notible rarety of mention of the Elden Lord. Also in the Gaius arena, the dead soldiers are all banished knights, also warriors that use weather incantations. I guess we may have an answer as to for whom comander Niall traded his leg for. Many of those betrayed by the Golden Order were natural allies to Godfrey, refardless of his lineage, sharing similar rituals and religious customs and symbols. The roundtable has banished knight armor all over and so does stormveil. They were a formal army once, whose allegiance for the war against the Hornsent was clearly in doubt. Great video, very good line of reasoning with different elements of the game.
@@arditlika9388 This is a great point, and some things I probably could’ve touched upon in this video. I definitely think you’re right about Godfrey’s exile having political motivations. In my opinion, the war waged against the Shadow Realm was part of the effort to seal death, put into practice on a broader scale. As reads upon the Suppressing Pillar: “All manners of Death wash up here, only to be suppressed.” Also I do think that the Messmer Soldiers are connected to Godfrey (but I wanna save talking about that for next time I think 😜) Thanks for the considered feedback and kind words 😊
Two things that I wanted to bring up were the ties between axes and curved swords, as well as another reason that Marika may have stripped Godfrey of his grace. It seems that curved swords, such as the Khopesh and the Falcion, are real-life equivalents to the Dismounter, a sword meant to use the heft of the axe in its usage. Perhaps the iconography of axe-wielders is more ancient compared to relatively new heavier curved swords? As for Marika stripping Godfrey of Grace, I was under the impression that Marika took pity upon Godfrey, seeing that his main goal in life was to continue fighting until he met an opponent worthy of killing him. This is why she told him, along with his warriors, to wage war in a far-off land and meet death. She wasn't punishing him for embracing death, she was freeing him of the chains of lordship so that he might keep fighting until he was bested. Of course, we fight him in the end because the Elden Beast resurrects him (since we see that he's already been killed in the opening cinematic) in order to kill us, but at the end of the day we're just fulfilling both his and Marika's wish for him, to die a warrior's death. Even at the hands of his daughter, Nepheli.
@@thescottishwookie7999 considering how the game compares godhood to imprisonment, framing Godfrey being divested of his grace as a form of mercy is very interesting! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 😃
Literally was fighting a red bear and I was like this fight is so similar to Hourah Loux. Similar ground stomps, the half circle dodge, earthquake like attacks, and the constant pushing. Found the highland set and was like huh that’s how he learned his moves. Then this video comes out lol
@@kixsicksdon’t blame you at all! Happy they seemed to build on the lore of the set that got cut. Fantastic video. You and SilentEllipsis dropped banger first Elden Ring videos in the last few days that made my jaw drop. Awesome job!
Have always thought the home of the Kaiden was a wintery place far north beyond the Lands Between. Mountaintops and Snowfield are wintery because of their altitude, not because they’re ok the north side of the island.
@@BatMatou I think the Highlands are the located in/ are the Forbidden lands, and the Badlands are outside the Lands Between. It’s where Godfrey resided after departing the Lands Between by boat, so I don’t think the Badlands are the same landmass. Thanks for the kind words! 😄
Yo, quite the start brother! I feel like you might have dismissed the idea of Godfrey eating Sarosh (or at least part of him) too quickly. Looking at how Dragon Communion works, it seems pretty likely, honestly, that parts of the divine beasts were consumed as part of the ritual. Looking forward to your future content.
That’s a good point, and definitely may be the case! It’s hard to say for sure without hard evidence, but I think what is important is that they’ve figuratively “consumed” their souls, or runes. Exact methods may vary, but the theme of coalescing power is expressed in many ways in the Lands Between. Be it via literal consumption, like Dragon Communion, as you said, Anastasia’s cannibalism, Alexander’s scavenging, or Rykard’s gluttony. Or by waging a bloody conquest, like Godrey, or even the player character themselves. The main recurring theme is that feeding on death increases one’s own power. “Is it not our sorry fate, to sup on death?" Thanks so much for the feedback! 😊
I believe that there is more to be said about how Godfrey came to power. Check out the Marais Mask, it's said to depict the progenitor of House Marais. It's design is a shoe in for a young Godfrey. There's a whole arc being implied here with Godfrey being granted a title and land holdings and etc. etc. His whole deal is very reminiscent of Conan the Barbarian. Even to the point of taking a kingdom and being banished in his elder years. Though Conan's story ends there with a sort of prophecy that he'll return, where Godfrey actually does.
I don't think the Blind Swordsman is Kaiden; I actually think he is of the ancient Rauh civilization, with the "flowing water" connection and his knowledge regarding Rot and how to seal it away. Plus, he doesn't use axes, but curved swords, and his fighting style isn't at all similar to Godfrey's or the Sellsword. Also no beast or storm connection. However, Rauh was closely tied to the Crucible, and so is Godfrey and his Crucible Knights (as well as his two Omen sons, of course). It's possible, plausible even that there was some cultural contact between Rauh and the Highland/Kaiden people.
The red bears have the same grab move as Horah Loux. When Godfrey says "Alas, I am returned." I swear he was dead before that. Godfrey is the only golden phantom in the game and he drank a potion very similar to how puppets are made.... We know that amber starlight can be made into potions to turn gods into puppets... Godfrey seems to be "willingly" or sacrificing something by drinking this potion. Since the Ritual of Radahn and Miquella showed us some things...( how Miquella prevents something from happening to Radahn with his arrival) Maybe Horah Loux and Godfrey are not the same person????
Great theory, the only thing I disagree with is in regards to the Godslayer seal and incantations. I don't think Horah Loux was obssessed with death so much he would have artifacts of the godskins, I think its more he didnt care about death since if he lived he was now a stronger warrior, and if he died, he died a warriors death. But I do think it goes to show how desperate Godrick was to have some amount of power, even if it was heretical power. really shows the difference between Godrick and Nepehli (best girl by the way)
@@freljodiandao882 Yes this is more or less how I view things. I don’t think Godfrey was obsessed with, or wielded the power of death, but rather was willing to coexist with and struggle to overcome death. I also think he didn’t view himself or the Gods as being “above the law” in this regard. I think Godfrey believes the mightiest should rule, so if someone is capable of defeating him, he’d want for them to rule in his stead. “Brave Tarnished… Thy strength befits a crown.” Also, agreed, Nepheli is a badass 💅 Thanks for the feedback! 😁
do you think that the item description for the Brick hammer is possibly about Godfrey or is it possibly speaking about Radagon? Personally I felt that it seemed to hint at a Sparticus-like story of a slave rising to sack the Elden Ring equivalent of Rome.
The Long March and the Rebellion(s) that took place in the Weeping Peninsula are still something I’m uncertain of. The Brick Hammer definitely seems to be alluding to Radagon imo. Obviously Radagon uses a hammer against us. The Brick Hammer is said to require “the strength of a giant” to wield it, and Radagon is directly compared to the giants in the description for the Giant’s Red Braid. The Brick Hammer describes a common labourer rising to “champion”, a term used to describe Radagon. “Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself” could perhaps be used to preface Miriel’s accounts of Radagon when he says “…a mere champion would be chosen for the seat of Elden Lord...” Again, I’m still uncertain but at the moment, I’m leaning towards the idea of multiple rebellions having taken place in the peninsula. The rebellion of common folk, during or after Godfrey’s exile, resulting in Crucible related folks being enslaved in their place. And then inversely, the rebellion that is taking place when we visit Castle Morne. The Crucible folk finally enacting their revenge. “A revenger's weapon, it is burdened with oceans of anger and regret. One of the legendary armaments. A lone surviving champion from a country now vanished was so determined to continue fighting that he claimed the swords of an entire clan of warriors.” The Grafted Greatsword bears a lion sigil, and is of course grafted, both of which are strongly connected to the Golden Lineage. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it for the time being 🙂
@@kixsicks My thoughts exactly. Godfrey only really fits as the wielder because of his immense strength. Nearly all other information and language seems to pint to Radagon and some possible transformation from a physically strong warrior to a more balanced sort, capable of casting golden order incantations proficiently. There also seems to be a bit of a string of greatswords linked to him and likely once wielded by him. He also is linked to the Leonine misbegotten, which are named radagon chimera in the game's code and Radagon children in the 1.00 version of the game. If Radagon is at all the Lancealot to Godfrey's King Arthur, then it might even make sense that he joined Godfrey or was possibly liberated by Godfrey at Stormveil when Godfrey was sacking the place. Back on topic, since the Kaiden warriors seem to be horsemen, do you think that Godfrey ever had a horse and could that possibly provide some link, though likely a distant one, to Torrent? PS: On a related note, Eochaid apparently is Gaelic for horseman. Making me wonder if Eochaid is the \land where horsemanship originated from in the lands between.
@ Thats an interesting thought regarding Torrent I’ve never really considered. But it would certainly be fitting for Godfrey, leader of the Crucible Knights, to have a horned steed as his mount. The Radagon being the Lancelot to Godfey’s King Arthur is a really good analogy as well. In my head, I like to imagine Godfrey as being a mixture of King Arthur, Conan the Barbarian, Odin and Oda Nobunaga. And I had no idea about the translation of Eochaid! It’d certainly make sense, and I wonder if it could serve as a link between Eochaid and the Northerners, given the Kaiden’s proficiency at fighting on horseback 🤔 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This is definitely something I’ll be mulling over!
@@beansnrice321 Radagon came to the Golden Order at golden horse, there isn't any connections Radagon with Stormveil. All of Stormveil links to Godfrey, Godrick and the sun.
You probably found his channel through someone else you're subbed to; I remember seeing a community post but not sure I remember from who. Smough maybe?
What is your opinion on the "old lord's talisman" depicting placidusax with only 4 heads, while specifically calling him the old lord. Do you think it's possible godfrey did indeed fight placidusax and defeated him, claiming one of his heads? We only see 2 of his heads on bayle afterall. We also have the fact that serosh might have served as the lord of beasts under placidusax in farum azula. I don't believe it's a stretch to say that serosh became godfrey's lion only after he defeated his lord.
@@patrascu1485 Yes! This what I was implying in the video when I compared Serosh’s subjugation and Marika’s acquisition of the Elden Ring. I find it hard to imagine the mighty Ancient Dragons would willingly offer up the power of the Elden Ring to anyone peacefully. The Old Lord’s talisman is interesting though, bc it brings the timeline into question. Placidusax seems to have originally had 5 heads, has 4 on the OLT, and 2 when we meet him ourselves, with Bayle of course being in possession of the other 2. If it’s true that Godfrey removed 1 head himself, then does that mean the OLT was made after Placidusax’s battle with Godfrey, but before his battle with Bayle? 🤔
@@kixsicks I don't think we can really tell when the fight with bayle really happened, only that it happened after the one with godfrey (if it even was with godfrey anyway)
@@patrascu1485 I think Messmer was most likely born of Radagon and Marika, given his red hair, the fact he has a corresponding butterfly (all the other demigods with corresponding butterflies seem to be children of Marika and Radagon) and the fact that the statue of Marika holding a presumably baby Messmer features a severed braid, which I think is symbolic of Radagon being excised from Marika’s identity.
Probably more like with how Marika was, and from Orders of the FAKE Greater Will. Marika stripped Godfrey of his Title and Power and was thrown away once he was no longer needed.
Also, notice that the Beast Men have large curved swords with the same decorative patterning as Godfrey’s axe - likely taken from Serosh. It’s possible Hoarah Loux used to use curved swords before taking on Serosh’s axe in becoming Godfrey.
@@ModernMan12 Also, Serosh, Godfrey, and the Beastmen’s crowns are all extremely similar. As are the Beastmen’s braids to Godfrey’s. To Bernahl, I’m not entirely sure what to make of him, but he definitely falls in line with Godfrey in many ways, ie. wears the “Beast Champion” set which is designed to make it look like the wearer is being mauled by lions, like Serosh with Godfrey, and the lions on the helm are grasping a cinquedea, which is associated with Farum Azula.
Dude, anyone can be anyone in this game. The lore is so non-specific in regards to anything that the fans can literally write any lore they want. The writers really need to put in some more work on characters and dialogue in this game. Give us a few damn cutscenes with some backstory. I love playing souls games, but their stories are awful. They do amazing world building, but storytelling... not their strong suit whatsoever, and it drives me nuts. Give us a good cutscene at the end, answering some questions and making the story feel complete. If your audience beats the game and isn't even sure if that was really the end cause the ending was so abrupt and felt so incomplete, then that's a problem you need to address. I'm not gonna stop playing souls games but this irritates me every time. After the elden ring dlc ending I was so irritated I didn't play again till a couple weeks ago. That was the worst ending in a game I've ever experienced. It's just over and then shows some sepia tones 10 second clip of miquella sitting by a chair in a blank void saying "I'm going to become a god and I want you to be my consort" to no one. Radahn wasn't even there. All that struggle for that shitty fucking ending. Struggle through that bossfight for that kinda garbage? I get pissed thinking about it. I like playing it but I just have to try and accept that the endings are always garbage. It's the only way to play souls games. Cool world and characters and garbage storytelling and even bigger garbage endings, shadow of the erdtree being the most garbage ending possibly of every movie, book, or game ever written. And the fact the world's and characters are so cool with interesting histories makes it even more irritating there's always tons of unanswered stuff about them. I love playing them, but God get your shit together with the storytelling fromsoft. If they gave us a few cutscenes that really answered our questions with some serious "no fucking way wow" moments they would have truly made something amazing. As they are, they're wonderfully fun and amazing. But that awful storytelling keeps them from reaching their zenith, their true potential. All that said, interesting theory, though. But again, anyone can be anything in this game. The fans basically just write the lore for the game since fromsoft didn't write any. Miyzaki says he likes it that way. I think he needs to quit using that excuse to write good dialogue.
@bloodhoundfang then don't read it. Some people have the ability to read and hold their attention span for 20 or 30 seconds. Some don't. Clearly you are the latter. Sounds like a you problem.
@bloodhoundfang it's called an opinion, and I know plenty of people who think the endings in this game suck and they need some better storytelling. I can see by your screen name. However, your entire identity is elden ring, so obviously, it would be impossible for you to admit a flaw in it. I love souls games I play all of them repeatedly, but they need some better storytelling. They build amazing worlds and characters, but they leave so many details out, and the endings are terrible. You're telling me you were satisfied with the non-existent ending of shadow of the erdtree?
Theory rules! Radahn in particular was a fanboy, and his preference for big curved swords has never made more sense(Also his horse attachment).
Yes! This is something I plan on touching on in another video. I probably could’ve expanded on it in this video, but given the horned warrior’s swords in the DLC, I’m currently leaning towards the idea that curved swords are symbolic of beasts horns/beastliness in general 👹
@@kixsicks I hope you can elaborate on the connections to the blue dancer because personally, the “blue clad warrior” I’d argue is more paralleled with Godwyn than Godfrey. I think a lot of context for Godfrey, or his lineage, conflicting with the Stormlord seems to be at Castle Sol and I don’t think it’s random there is so much Godwyn exposition there. Engvall and Oleg are directly referred as “Wings of the Stormlord” in the JP with Commander Niall guarding the castle for his “long passed master”. I think Castle Sol is one of the last bastions of the Sun Realm culture that predated Godfrey’s rule with the Stormlord likely being the figure head, possibly ruling over Stormveil at the time when the “true storm raged” and all that.
“Incantation that channels the power of the ancient dragon Fortissax, now corrupted by Death.
Strikes surroundings with a **storm of Death lightning**. Inflicts Death blight upon foes. Charging extends duration of the **storm**.
It is said that this **golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn**, who befriended Fortissax.”
The reason I bring up Godwyn is because his trademark Golden Lightning is coded into so many cultures that have associations with the Storm like the Banished Knights(all have thorn and dragon ornamentation) with Commander Niall himself wielding it, the Stormhawk Axe dual wielded by Nepheli just like Godwyns knights(they have a Stormhawk on their cape) who also has a connection to the Stormclans judging from her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”, Dancing Divine Beasts/Horned warriors, etc. You also have the Deathbirds inflicting Deathblight like the Divine Beasts and we know birds/hawks have an affiliation with the Storm. ⛈️
@@puzzleheaded6195 Damn there is a lot to think about here. I definitely think its fair speculation to assume that storm culture being intergrated into the Golden Lineage began with Godwyn and the founding of the Ancient Dragon Cult. While I’m not certain, I’d say it’s even possible that the founding of the ADC predates Marika’s acquisition of the Elden Ring, and that Godwyn may have played a signicant role in that, given his title, “The Golden”.
I also agree regarding Castle Sol belonging to the now lost Sun Realm, and extend that to both Castles Stormveil and Redmane as well.
The only counter argument regarding storm culture being specific to Godwyn and not Godfrey, aside from Godfrey’s battle with the Storm Lord and Stormveil Castle itself, in my opinion, is Nepheli Loux. It seems explicit that she comes from the same culture of badland warriors that Godfrey led in his time after exile. She shares Hoarah’s family name, and seems to deeply revere storm culture. Of course, it could be true of the Golden Order’s lineage in general, but Nepheli seems to be directly tied to Godfrey, and she herself is motivated by restoring the storm to its former glory, as it has been sullied by the Golden Lineage, though that may exclusively be Godrick’s fault.
“I will call upon the storm, to drive away the foulness that has settled on the winds.”
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but I’m curious what parallels between the Blind Swordsman and Godwyn there are? Aside from Godwyn’s subjugation of Fortisaxx, which I do think is a fair parallel, and probably stems from the culture Godwyn inherited from Godfrey. Again, sorry if I’m just misunderstanding your point, it’s getting late where I am 😅
Thanks for the engaging lore discussion though, I do really appreciate it 😃
@@kixsicks I agree that Godwyn might’ve taken influence from Godfrey and even go as far as to claim he earned his name “Godwyn” similarly through a beast hunt and then forming a union but I need to connect Godwyn to the Storm before tying him to the Blue Dancers which I believe come from the Sun Realm, like all Tarnished. There’s a video on YT by DondonRV where he goes over the Design Works of Elden Ring. Mind you, this guy is not a Loretuber and I can’t speak for his sources but at about (8:16:32) there are slides that confirm it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many things, biggest one being the winds always traveling east(Margit cutscene confirms this), making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. These “tainted winds” are caused by Godrick as stated by Nepheli and they always travel in the same direction, towards Farum Azula. This also is why most of the damage is always focused on the western facing parts of buildings, gates, walls, etc. While looking at cut content did you ever come upon the Exile Hood in the 1.0 description? It directly states the reason they wear those hoods is to protect their heads, preventing the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I strongly believe this is why the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction with Stormveil likely meeting the same fate down the road.
The Marred Leather Shield of course alludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning/stormcaller which is likely what he is doing in his half-state. This is also why you find so many Godwyn items/monument detailing the “routing of the dragons” near Stormcaller Church Imo
I’ve suspected for a while that the Tarnished come from the Sun Realm judging from that dialogue in the intro “ye dead who yet live” but more importantly, from Nepheli who is Tarnished like us and Rogier who takes Godwyns death personally, weeping to Fia when talking about it. The Stormhawk Axe she dual wields like Godwyns Death Knights with Golden Lightning has the same tentacle pattern as Godfrey’s Axe who also share similarities with the FA Beastmen who live in an TWLID city in the sky. Given that the Axe is found in Sol and the Roundtable Hold(all the forts are next to the ocean) it makes me think the Stormhawk/Stormclans were the original builders of Stormveil who worshiped the Eclipse with the Mausoleum knights and originally, many of the banished knights, before being transitioned under Godfrey’s rule. Nepheli is evidence of this since she wields it and reinforces it with her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk” and “summoning the storm” also chosen by the Stormhawk King and Kenneth Height, Erdtree royalty who recognizes her “proper lineage” instead of Godricks who is confirmed to be Godfrey’s Blood. It’s curious she only helps you with the Godrick and Godfrey fight and talks about witnessing a massacre when she was young which was likely Horauh after being tamed by Serosh described by the Giant Crusher which details “man turning against man in violence” after the Giants were felled. You find the Brick Hammer in Stormveil and Nepheli gives you the Arsenal Charm which belonged to the Morne Avenger, an entity Godfrey faced in the Weeping Peninsula and a place where it’s always raining(it rains in the Duskborn Ending too) and you find Fulgarbloom which only grows in “lightning struck” lands. Her storyline is evocative of that story because she finds a massacred village and enacts justice without realizing it was her own “father” and I often wonder if she could be retelling Godwyns story. Maybe Godrick calls the dragon a “trueborn heir” for a reason since the book with the oldest dragon cult Incantations is found in Farum Azula stating “never reached the Lands Between”.
If the Stormhawk King, Farum Azula, and the Dragon Cult are all implications of any sort of emerging religious following / cult of personality that is all connected by Godwyn with the ancient dragons, that would very well make him a veneration of a golden scion of the Erdtree. If multiple contingencies in the Lands Between that Marika had conquered but not annihilated began to rally around an alternative figure with a legitimate claim to power, that sounds like it could be a problem for Marika and if that figure’s following simultaneously had the effect of legitimizing a previous order’s claim to power, kind of like Gwyn and his Firstborn from Dark Souls who similarly wielded Golden Lightning, had a storm companion, and was removed from the annals of history for siding and starting a cult with the Ancient Dragons, that starts to sound like big trouble for Marika. Were this dynamic actually to play out, I it would be an argument that I’d find credible for why Marika might have been involved in Godwyn’s death.
I also tend to look at the dancing attack that radahn uses. The kaiden use single curved swords, while radahn uses two, and while you fight him during miquella's ascension, he launches into a light and quick flowing combo similar to the dancing fighting styles we've seen from old numen cultures. Its like hes merging traditional and ancient fighting styles together.
This also wraps a neat bow around why Fortissax was "befriended" and taught Lightning to Godwyn
Lightning and Ancient dragons are to Godwyn what the Storm and Serosh are to Godfrey
Subjugation of savage beasts via ritual combat to gain their power; mirrored again in "Bear communion" and Dragon communion
@@claytonc6417 100% agree!
Here because of Scum Mage. He wasn't lying when he said it was gonna be good. Great work, sub'd for more.
Incredible video Kick, it was everything I thought it would be and more. Tying all of that together was art- I LOVED the Zamor reference and especially the Blue Dancer.
Absolutely wild you had worked most of this out BEFORE the DLC :')
@@ScumMageInfa if only it didnt take me 7 months to release a 20 minute video 😪
Thank you so much for all your help and support Infa, I literally could not have made this video without you 💛
I still believe infa is the real vaati
@@kixsicksi’m grateful for your dedication to good theory crafting and production
Very well explained and reasoned. One thing I would question a little is the theory that Godfrey was sent on the long march because he wasn't a compatible leader for an era of stability. There is logic to that, but in the same breath that Marika sent the tarnished away, she also told them that they'd be summoned back eventually. Godfrey didn't fit into the era that she was building, but I think an even bigger reason to send him away was so that he could fight, die, and become strong, and potentially become Elden Lord again when necessary. She was stowing him away for a rainy day, in a way.
Wowowow! So many great insights!
I'm so on board with the Zamor, Kaiden, Hornsent, and Hoarah Loux at least engaging in significant cultural exchange if not all sharing a common ancestor.
And tying in the blind swordsman is brilliant. I've never associated him with Godrey before but you make such a compelling case I'm on board!
Great insights and great video! Thanks for sharing! These ideas mesh well with and even fill in some holes in my head cannon.
@@Elden_dorK Thanks so much for the feedback and kind words, I really appreciate it! 😊
I mentioned this in another comment, but something I left out of this video I probably couldve included in the “family tree” segment, was that the common ancestor of all of these peoples may have been the giants.
As said in the description of the Northerners in the character creator, they are believed to be the descendants of giants. Which is expanded upon by the description of the Giant-Crusher:
“After the giants were quelled, and man turned against man in violence, this weapon was all but forgotten. Man has grown feeble in comparison to his forebears. “
Also, Godfrey, the Kaiden, and the trolls all use roar abilities themselves, roars being explicitly tied to the giants via the Roar Medallion. And the Talisman of All Crucibles is something “rumored to have sprouted upon giants”.
The two handed talisman found in the DLC depicts a hornsent warrior wielding a dismounter curved sword, a weapon wielded by Kaiden warriors
Amazing video, you tied together everything about Godfrey, I never thought that he might actually want to die (in a glorious battle) and therefore leave the lands between.
It also makes sense why Radahn wanted to die even after agreeing to be Miquella’s consort.
In the age of Marika with destined death removed it is quite hard to prove yourself a worthy warrior. As long as you have grace you are immortal so in order to actually kill somebody an incredible power is required.
Miquella wasn’t able to kill Radahn even with scarlet rot and Tarnished is a proof of grace-driven “easy mode” in battle. We may die thousand times before eventually killing a demigod, but we will win as long as we keep fighting death after death.
Props to Radahn for being a fanboy to the end, he didn’t cut corners on his way to become a warrior like Godfrey.
I used to talk about this on reddit all the time. Its also worth mentioning the connections surrounding roars, something used by Godfrey, highlanders, trolls and beasts. We've already established highlanders are related to Godfrey. The beasts are obvious since Godfrey conquered them. The trolls are interesting in that both trolls and the northerner race are believed to be descendants of giants. Meaning Godfrey may have himself been a descendent of giants. Diminutive giants are something also mentioned by the sword of Milos description. I mean the giants up north also just blatantly have very different sizes as observed by their various corpses. The roar medallion depicts a roaring giant. So there is all those connections regarding Godfrey, giants, and roars as well.
I love your connections it seems so obvious now that you’ve pointed it out, I’m pretty much relating any enemy who uses a war cry with Godfrey atp (Kaiden, Messmer soldiers, maybe even trolls)
I am kinda thinking that the Kaiden we see in TLB are the latest evolution of this clan as opposed to an accurate depiction of the clan during the height of its power, but otherwise great lore man looking forward to the next
I actually had a segment on roars that I ended up cutting, but I definitely think this is the case! Basically, I just compared the roar abilities of Godfrey to the Kaiden, beastmen, and trolls. Given what the character creator says about Northerners;
“A face found among the hardy people of the unforgiving north. Some say they're descended from giants.”
It seems like both trolls and northerners are descendants of giants, who are strongly associated with roar abilities via the Roar Medallion.
Tbh I probably could’ve expanded the family tree thing to include giants and trolls, but oh well 😅
@ I’m to the point of assuming that the family tree would be accurate, that the giants are definitely related. It seems like the evolution in Elden Ring definitely makes people smaller and less horny lmao
@ “After the giants were quelled, and man turned against man in violence,
this weapon was all but forgotten. Man has grown feeble in comparison to his forebears.”
Phenomenal video! These were all conclusions that I came to on my own (including the curved swords connections) as well so seeing someone else do it is so awesome!
Different roads sometimes lead the same castle. Keep up the great work!
@@JackisaMimic Thanks so much for the words of encouragement, I really appreciate it! 😁😊
Btw I’m eagerly anticipating your next video, the thumbnail and title make my brain-worms writhe 🫨 cant wait to watch!
did you even investigate the pinned posts on u/importantdebatem8?
Hhheeeyyy!!!! THIS WAS REALLY GOOD!!!! I fully buy it! Love it! Fantastic first video!
@@K8theKind thank you for the kind words I really appreciate it 🥹❤️
Great Job friend, the braves set is the key to everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with all of this but you already knew that
@@SaintTrinaLore Thanks so much Trina! ❤️ Not only for the kind words and support, but for all the engaging lore discussions, streams and videos, and for providing a community for me to babble about my lore ideas. You are dearly appreciated 🫵🥰
This turned out beautifully! Good catches on the settlement phrasing and the beat hunting culture of the Highlands. Looking forward to what you post next!
@@the_mcfrenzy thank you so much for helping Frenzy, and thank you muchly for the kind words ❤️😊
bull out the gate. hell of a first upload
@@NihilisticRealism Wow tysm! 😊
Great video my friend :)
Totally agree that the Kaidens descend from the highlanders.
I think the Zamor are part of the hornsent culture, thus the masks, dancey moveset, storms, similar coloration, and feathers, but I think the the more barbaric Highlanders are just another clan alongside them. I think the hornsent helped in defeating the Fire Giants and then Marika betrayed them, and I think the betrayal was killing the stormlord and removing destined death.
I think the blue dancer was a part of or related to the dancey hornsent-ish culture, and definitely related to the Dancers of Ranah and Tanith.
That was a really cool and interesting video, keep going !
i subscribe to the radagon usurper theory and how it ties into marika telling godfrey not very callously to leave then return. and with the messmer crusade happening around this time i think that was marika trying to appease the fundamentalists and sending her son that can burn magic stuff away just incase. all the black knights in the dlc have crucible power and my head cannon theory is they are godfreys crucible knights that really dont wanna be there but they are making the best of it. the messmer foot soldiers have a pseudo celtic/anglo-saxon/norse-ish appearance sorta like the highlanders and kaiden, but the important thing is they were forced to be there. and they might have ties to the banished knights and exiled soldiers.
Youve done a fantastic job making this!
It’s always the guys with barely any subscribers and a couple videos who have the most banger of theory’s. Also how has nobody figured this out yet? You’re the first one I’ve seen make the Kaiden, Highland, Godfrey connection and it’s right in your face.
Great! You clearly worked hard on this! Just as a viewer of this type of content, I say welcome to the fold!
Wow, straight out the gate with an absolute banger!
Damn that was good lore! Great job, Tarnished!
This would be a great explanation for why the character player in so much Elden Ring promotional content is shown wearing the Raging Wolf Set: "Armor worn by Vargram the Bloody Wolf, one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold."
The Bloody Wolf was also one of five starting classes in the Closed Network Test: "The Wolf is cunning, steadfast and deadly. These warriors have no fear and face down death with unmatched vigor and pride."
The design of the set is very similar to Kaiden warriors, with the helmet donning hair, the armor with (white wolf) fur, the red coloring, and the descriptions mentioning being the first Tarnished (those would likely be followers of Godfrey), and the lack of fear of death.
@@davidchola6550 Thanks for sharing! I wasn’t aware of the class description for the Bloody Wolf! It definitely corresponds with what I was saying about Godfrey’s attitude towards death. And the fact he is “one of the first Tarnished” opens the possibility that Vargram was of Kaiden descent as well.
Thanks again for your thoughts! 😃
Im so stoked you brought up the banished knights connection to Godfrey. After watching you Stormviel video, I went down a fat rabbit hole about the banished knights. After an hour of research, I came to the conclusion that banished knights were the Stormlords men that Godfrey captured and kept, who he then gave to Godwyn. The interesting part is that we can almost say with certainty that Godwyn was given control of most of them more recently since we have many instances of them participating in Dragon Communion be it the incantations or guarding the communion temple. We also see them at Godwyn specific locations like Fera Masula and Castle Sol. So my running theory is that after they were defeated, Godwyn took them in while Godfrey took care of the Stormlords family (hence Nepheli's tie to the Loux name while also being able to have the special stormhawk spirit ash). Godfrey came back to the capital where Marika takes his and his mens grace. Forcing the tarnished to leave. The Banished Knights would remain with Godwyn till his death. Where they wouldve been completely homeless since Stormviel was wrecked, Godfrey was out of town, and Godwyn was no more. So these Ronin like figures just migrated to where they felt they had more purpose. This is where Godrick comes in to "lead" the Banished Knights of Stormviel.
Awesome video. Looking forward to more!
Hey I might be crazy but I read somewhere that all the Tarnished originated from the Warrior class and later reclassed to something else.
Anyways I enjoyed your video with great points such as Godfrey being receptive to Death. Godfrey is such a fascinating character and the way he just appeared after restoring Death is very telling.
Great video! So much depth in Elden Ring that most people just miss, you got to piece it together with bits they give you on each piece of gear
Excellent video. Please make more on Godfrey.
Great first video man. Love the indepth analysis of the item descriptions. So happy Scum Mage Infa recommended you. I've been subscribed and waiting since yesterday for you to drop your video. Can't wait for the next one. You've got me thinking about the timeline abit different. Like could Godfrey actually have been with Marika before the Golden order was fully established and once he had waged war and got rid of all opposition it wasn't till then that she divested him of his grace and then removed the rune of death as how else could he have killed all opposition if they couldn't die. Also as you've proven war without death wouldn't of been of interest to Godfrey. I'm probably wrong here. The timeline is so confusing.
Yes, I think youre pretty spot on with this! The way I’m imagining it at the moment is, prior to the age of the Golden Order, Godfrey and Marika were one faction of many, much like the demigods during The Shattering. For instance, there are ancient Tarnished that were a part of the Round Table, who utilise forces one would not expect to be a part of Marika’s Golden Order, ie. Vargram (using the Godslayer’s Greatsword) and Alberich (using thorn sorcery). In short, I think Marika and Godfrey were definitely important people in the past, they just didn’t rule over everything. After establishing their rule, Marika began excising aspects of TLB she previously coexisted with
From what I understand, Godfrey was either with Marika or working for her since the tail end of the Crucible Era at the latest, meaning that Godfrey as Hora Loux was likely subject of Marika since before Dragons controlled the Elden Ring. That's right, Godfrey was a good boi even before Farum Azula. The Golden Order came WAY after that and was a creation of Radagon, AFTER Godfrey was exiled.
It's hard to realize just how much time has passed between eras, and how many eras there were. Hora Loux was one of the earliest humans, predating Elden John and the Ancient Dynasty. He was exiled because he was an archaic and troublesome reminder of a bloody past and Marika would need him later with his strength undiminished by lack of conquest
i'm absolutely down to be corrected, it would help me understand. But I think there is a faction called the Erdtree Faithful, that gets replaced by the Golden Order with Radagon. The reasons I believe this are that the golden order incantations require intelligence, something Radagon could have picked up with Renalla and the references of a past age by characters like Ranni. There is also a description somewhere that says something like, With Radagons union to Marika, his children became demigod step children. You could look at it as symbolic, but the union with Marika is him literally melding with her, making his children who were already born, into demigods from this event. I think when Marika says "let us be shattered together" pieces of them are being smashed together, while their children pick up the other remaining pieces.
think of a person made of a puzzle, one person was remade with 2 complete puzzles, so there are excess pieces to pick up.
Biggest wall I have with any Kaiden theory is that the Kaiden don't wield axes. It seems so bizarre considering they are literally depicted with an axe on the Axe Talisman. Such overwhelming evidence tying the two together (didn't see it mentioned but Kaiden literally means "warrior" in Celtic), except the most iconic part of Godfrey, his Axe, does not match. This tells me there has to be a specfic reason for them changing to curved GSs.
Great video mate.
@@shinyhydreigon7257 Thanks for the kind words and input! I kind of glossed over it for the sake of being easier to follow along, but I think its probably more accurate to say Godfrey is a Highlander/Northener, and the Kaiden are the descendants of those people, granting a small amount of wiggle room. One possible explanation I have is, if it is true that the Blind Swordsman was a Highlander as well, we could infer the weapons of choice for the highlanders included both axes and curved swords. While the Kaiden use a great curved sword, the dismounter, its interesting that the item description compares the dismounter to both a hatchet, specifically a single-sided axe, and a scimitar:
“This curved greatsword wielded by the brawny sellswords of Kaiden combines the blades of a scimitar with the heft of a hatchet. “
If it’s not intentional, which I think it probably is, it’s at least a nice coincidence.
Thanks again! 😁
@@kixsicksmakes some sense given the location of blue dancer charm and all the kaiden in the cave
@@kixsicks Yeh I had the same idea looking at the Dismounter description. Obviously not concrete but cool that you read it that way too.
You just made me realise that despite the Highlander set appearing in the DLC, I don't think we actually find any of them there.
But just now while typing this, I can't help but think the Messmer Soldiers might actually be the Highlanders. Biggest connection obviously being the Stomp and the Axe they use.
And while digging through fextra, I realised the Kaiden are described as Sellswords. Do sellswords all wear the same armor? Perhaps it was given to them by Godfrey inspired by the Highlander's?
Makes me think Godfrey/Marika rallied the inhabitants of the Mountaintops to kill the giants, Kaiden included. And some of them followed Godfrey all the way through his march. We do find Kaiden/Zamor/Trolls in Weeping/Limgrave after all.
I still wonder why the Kaiden Settlement isn't found in-game.
Sorry for the ramble lol.
Kix, what a spectacular display of interntwined information! My skepticism flew away and I got absorbed by all the information, stuff that I already knew but never connected the dots. Just, chef's kiss! Or rather, a chieftain's warcry! Simply superb and fantastically well grounded. Absolutely incorporating whatever I didn't know into my headcanon. The connections with the Blind Swordsman were a little loose, but not by much and it really makes me wanna investigate this more. Can't wait for future content.
@@BrownHairL Your kind words, support and constructive criticism mean the world. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and share your thoughts, its very much appreciated! 😊😁
Godfrey is my favorite character and it’s so interesting to learn more about him. Great video. Subbed and look forward to the next one
you did a great job on this dude for real!! So glad you were able to get it out
Thank you so much! Appreciate you! ❤️🥹
kix, this is fantastic. thank you for sharing your knowledge :)
Thank you for watching and for the kind words 😊
this video is fantastic. the vendel period style helms you mentioned on the axe talisman and the sets was a great connection
I hope to hear your deep dives more
Been waiting for this!
Thisis exactly the type of content i adore. I love listening to thoughtful lore vids while playing games and this channels perfect for stalker, il be subbing an following your stuff, great work good sir!
@@CoperliteConsumer Thanks so much for the kind words, it really means a lot! ☺️
Love your work Kix
Kaiden are one of my favourite enemies from the game, and seeming them tied so brilliantly to Godfrey is exciting. Also, big thanks for placing all the lore solely within the context of the game-world, not invoking real-life vikings or norse myth. Whatever the developers' inspirations were for ER, I find it more compelling to engage the game on the terms they laid out for us to experience, not by way of real-world analogies. It's much more immersive.
I particularly like the irony of "subjugating beasts" with Godfrey, since Serosh symbolically subjugated him during his time as Lord, scaling down his battle-lust.
Only point I don't find convincing is the inclusion of the slender Zamor knights in the potential lineage of divine bird -> horned -> godfrey -> kaiden line. But very interesting thinking!
Nice Sirris armour btw. And can't wait for the Death Rite Bird & Runebear videos. You have a great presentation style.
@@ianwilliams2632 Thanks so much for the kind words and constructive criticism, it means a lot! While I probably will touch upon some real world parallels in the future, it isn’t something I’m interested in leaning on too heavily, for exactly the reasons you’ve stated. i think for the most part, the games can speak for themselves.
I have more thoughts to share regarding Godfrey and Serosh’s relationship, but I don’t want to say too much while the idea is still half-baked.
To be frank, I’m not 100% on board with any of the speculation presented in this video. Anything not concrete in this game must be taken with a grain of salt. I just hadn’t heard anyone else talk about this stuff before, and there are enough parallels I figured it was at least worth exploring a little.
Hopefully future videos don’t take as long to make as this one. Thanks again for the feedback!
And I’m definitely glad to see you can appreciate the fashion 😁
Ok great in-depth video, subbed and look forward to more of your work
The Axe Talisman tie in has made me 98% onboard with everything you got here, just some things: I think Hora Loux was one of the earliest 'humans' and predated the Kaiden culture by a lot so it is more accurate to say that the mindset Hora Loux started as the lord of Leyndel had roots in the ancestors of the Kaiden rough mountain warrior culture, and shaped it through his actions.
The second thing I have to disagree with you on is why Marika took Grace from Godfrey and the Tarnished under his command. But this is a common thing everyone disagrees on though I have not yet had such a well documented public space to share my thoughts on this:
I think Marika took the grace from Godfrey for many reasons, and the choice to do it all was according to her long-term plan
1) Godfrey can only be what he is, a brilliant force of martial destruction, if he has a constantly stronger enemy to fight. He fought and defeated ALL of those in the Lands Between, so before Godfrey could 'get worn out and rusted from lack of challenge' she sent him, as a mortal, overseas where he could fight and retain his edge and strength, and then die at his peak to await the next part of her plan: The remaking of the Elden Ring
2) His rowdiness was troublesome, Marika was divesting Grace of its red primal nature (so effectively only dragons and a few weapons remember), she could not have him charging into the dining hall and throwing golden hippo corpses on the table and demanding the cooks prepare it immediately when holding matters of state with Caria and the Nox
3) The Omen Twins. I don't think she ever forgave Godfrey for impregnating her with the face of her people's genociders, even though Godfrey had zero part or responsibility
Marika had set up contingency after contingency of which we are only ONE of many. Godfrey was another she had prepped for millennia for the purpose of being a strong enough lord to reunite the Elden Ring (and fix her mistake of removing Death from the natural cycle(whether she thought this was a mistake is still up for debate)), There are so many she orchestrated, or tried to (I think she deliberately setup the merchants to experience undeserved tragedy as an EXPERIMENT in summoning/creating an outer god and bit off more than she could chew when she lost Vyke to it)
And I believe she got the knowledge from that from the tablets taken from the ancient Rauh civilization and is at the heart of 'spirit currency' and 'immortal essence'.
But back to Godfrey. Again thank you for this detailed and well visualized in-depth exploration and I am thrilled to have all weekend to think about this. Also something to consider:
Godfrey's portrait in Stormveil is of his broken axe, how? According to the timeline it broke AFTER being exiled. UNLESS an artist FROM across the fog was brought over, or maybe there's commerce and trade? The Confessors mention Marika's churches in other lands.
I have to say, I love the image you painted of Godfrey slamming a hippo corpse on the table like it’s a leg of ham 😂
But yes these are all great points and I broadly agree with pretty much everything you’ve said! I definitely think Godfrey’s exile isn’t something that can be explained with a single point.
To your first point, 100%. Godfrey had exhausted all worthy challenges in TLB, and so was sent afar to “grow strong in the face of death”, to keep his blade from growing dull, so to speak.
Your second point I also strongly agree with, and I have a lot to say on this, but will save it for the future. In short, I see it like, in order to overthrow the reigning order of her time, Marika had to essentially fight fire with fire, much like Rykard is attempting to do, before “extinguishing” her own “flame” as well.
As for the painting of Godfrey, this touches on something I ended up cutting from the video, where I was going to compare Godrick and Nepheli Loux. I think Nepheli is essentially Godfrey’s “true heir”, embodying Godfrey’s true nature as Hoarah Loux. Whereas Godrick is more obsessed with the image of being a mighty, noble king. He pursues what his lineage has chosen to remember about Godfrey, not who he really was.
“After falling from grace, the dregs of the golden lineage sought power and purpose in the past.”
So I think this painting, and perhaps others, may have been created by the Golden Lineage in their attempts to romanticise, and borderline fetishise, their ancestor.
Thanks so much for the thought-provoking feedback, I really appreciate it! 😁
@@kixsicks Ok wow I LOVE how your mind works:
That comparison of Nepheli Loux and Godrick is just perfect and is probably worth a video in itself. I got that feeling seeing all the 'goldish' decorations added to Stormveil compared to the simple brilliance of Grace
If you don't have a patreon you really need to make one, this work is value
@@arglebargle42 Thanks so much! An analysis of Godfrey and Nepheli is something that probably wouldn’t take as long as some of the other topics I have in mind at the moment, so thats a good idea. I’ll do my best to get the ball rolling! 😁
@@arglebargle42 The explanation would be that the artist used to march with Godfrey had this painting with him and was found by one of the sicons that Godrick sent.
In history it wasn't uncommon to have painters document the history on battlefield when nothing was happening.
I fucking love this video, I feel dumb for not making these connections before. Now personally I don't believe they were all a single people but rather the similitudes between them show that at some point in history they all belonged in more or less the same time frame before Marika's Erdtree reign. I feel like all these warmongering shamanistic cultures are supposed to be analogous to the many Barbarian peoples that migrated into the Roman Empire after its fall (Fallen Sun/Dragon Realm) while they were also being converted to christianity (Primordial Erdtree-Crucible Religion).
Great video, perhaps the 8 pointed star ( think fell god)and the spiral motif ( think hornsent culture) had something to do with Kaiden culture and/or Godfrey’s culture during the age of the crucible? All motifs and ideas they had to let go of during the ascendency of the erdtree?
I dont wanna say too much on this yet but I 100% think this is the case
Really fresh and well thought out. Great work ❤
Thanks homie, appreciate the kind words 🥰
First off, great job on your first lore video! I remember watching a really good theory on why marika banished godfrey and the tarnished but i dont remember who its from. Basically the theory as i remember it mirrored miquella and marikas stories throughout the realm of shadow, but the part that ties in most is about st. trina and how she warns divinity would be a prison for miquella. Going a bit further down the mirrored origins theory, if this is the case and miquella did in part know it would be his prison, perhaps marika did, or found out along the way, and chose to make arrangements to end her imprisonment on her terms i.e. having warriors she knew would be powerful enough to reach and free marika by her death.
Im sure im misremembering some pieces of it in some way, but i found it compelling and was reminded of it while watching your video.
@@majrbacon1293 Thanks so much for the positive feedback! 😁
And if you ever do remember that video please let me know! Id love to check it out and see if it could help flesh out my understanding 😃
It didn't occur to me that Zamor had storm powers as well, like Godfrey/Niall/Nepheli Loux/Hornsent warriors. Of course, they only have blizzard/ice storm magic, and not lightning, but still. I wonder if that magic is more of a natural gift to them, as opposed to something learned or culturally instilled?
This was put together in a very satisfying way. Love your line of reasoning, keep it up!
@@vill8314 Thank you, I appreciate the kind words! 😊
11:13 it’s also somewhat worth mentioning that when he kills you in phase 2 he mentions that a crown is warranted with strength
Nice video friend! I always expected to find some kind of Kaiden settlement/ruins in the snowfields.
The design on the Knight armor and and Elden Lord armor are very similar. Not sure if there is a connection or not but it is interesting 🤔
Hey there friend! I came over on suggestion of Scum Mage Infa, whose become as of recently one of my favorite creators on the ER lore space.
With his recommendation I was primed to see good content here and you absolutely delivered.
Godfrey (and his past and lineage) happens to be my favorite character, and subsequently one of kf my favorite subject matters within Elden Ring, so it was a nice little treat to be introduced to a new creator with this subject matter in focus.
Anyways, I feel like you really did an outstanding job here my friend, particularly for a first entry. You should be proud. Im subbed up, and looking forward to your next release, whenever that may be.
Ok, see ya!
@@King_WhiteWolf Thanks for the kind words! Very much appreciated 😊
I had previously seen a video stating that Godfrey was a highlander due to his bear-like fighting style but as soon as you mentioned the resemblance between the Kaiden and Highlander helmets I was sold on the title. It also checks out chronologically of the Kaidens are the “new” highlander forces since we know that Godfrey went from being Hoarah Loux (highlander phase) to donning his axe and Godfrey title, and we only hear of Kaidens using axes in honour of their lord
This video is awesome great investigative work very thorough and 100% correct i believe
Very insightful video! Another curious detail I found is that on the two-handed sword talisman the horned warrior holds a dismounter, a weapon of the kaiden sellswords. Not sure what it tells us about their relations though
@SchansKir Thanks for the kind words! Oh wow I think you’re right, the blade, the hilt and the bandages all line up. It definitely lends credence to the idea the highlanders descend from the horned warriors! I mentioned this in another comment, but if its true that the Blind Swordsman is of Kaiden descent as well, its interesting that the dismounter is compared to both a hatchet, specifically a single-sided axe, and a scimitar in its item description!
“This curved greatsword wielded by the brawny sellswords of Kaiden combines the blades of a scimitar with the heft of a hatchet. “
Thanks so much for sharing! 😄
Strong video bro
This is awesome stuff!
Excellent
The hole concept of death equals power is the core of this series.
Great theory!,
1)also i would like to add that horah-loux literally just fights like a red bear(their attacks are too similar) and his eruption attack he does is just a variation of attack done by rea bear and gurranq!
(Side note):-it's also interesting that maliketh is the one that gives us beast claw great hammer which is directly linked to serosh!,and both serosh and maliketh are blind and have similar armor,ontop of that gurranq hides in farum azula and disguised himself as a beast clergyman of farum) so idk if the 2 fingers really created maliketh for marika like blaidd was created ranni or just chose a very powerful beast clergman from farum after marika and godfrey conquered it and shadow bounded gurranq to marika!
2)Godfrey's axe has same patterns as beastmen cleavers so it could be possible if the axe originally belonged to serosh!
3)We find lord's bestowal talisman in shadowkeep and many of messmer's soilders have crucible stomps,roar and have axes aswell!
4)one i would disagree about godfrey is that i don't think he was obsessed with death rituals and that being the reason for marika to disagree with him but i believe she outright favored godfrey over radagon like they had differences sure but the banishement was her masterplan and trusting in godfrey to carry it out and she always calls him "my lord" and his image isn't tainted even after his banishment,also godfrey's willingness to keep serosh even in badlands and coming back to become marika's lord again which wouldn't be the case if she treated him like shit during his time as her consort,godfrey could just ignore grace like other tarnished did,and some cut dialogue suggests godfrey truely loved marika and is there to rescue her! unlike radagon and marika who are always in opposition in pretty much everything and she literally calls him a dog!
@@Blondie-the-good Thanks for the thorough response!
1) Yes! This is something I discussed in another comment chain, where someone challenged my opinion that Godfrey may not have literally devoured his fallen opponents. Given the introduction of Bear Communion in the DLC, and the similarites you’ve just mentioned, I don’t this it’s unreasonable to suggest Godfrey has partook in Bear Communion himself.
Regarding Maliketh, I do not think he was “created” by the Two Fingers in the same way it’s believed Blaidd was. Given the Beast Claw incantations account: “This incantation represents the fury of Gurranq, his bestial nature returned…” I believe Gurranq was originally a beast clergyman, before his role as Marika’s shadow. I believe it was only after Marika betrayed him that he “regressed” to his former state.
2) Yes! This is yet another subject I had a segment covering that didn’t make it into the final video. Further evidence to support this is that the crowns worn by the Beastmen, Serosh, and Godfrey are all extremely similar. Credit to @Sinister Stromboli for pointing that out to me!
3) Another hard agree! This is something I plan on exploring further in the future, but I definitely think Messmer’s soldiers and the Black Knights have strong ties to Godfrey.
4) This is something I maybe could’ve explained better in the video. I don’t think Godfrey was obsessed or wielded the power of death in in manner. But rather, was simply comfortable existing alongside death. Another piece of evidence to suggest this, imo, would be Vargram, an ancient Tarnished, who wields the Godslayer’s Greatsword, the sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen herself.
As to Marika’s treatment of Godfrey compared to Radagon, I 100% agree. I’m not sure what is going on exactly, but it is definitely intriguing that even when explaining that Godfrey is to be exiled she still refers to him as “My Lord”. The fact she’s even taking the time to explain this to Godfrey and the Tarnished makes it seem more like a mutually agreed upon plan, rather than a betrayal. As discussed in other comment chains, it seems part of the reason she drove Godfrey from TLB was so he could continue to “grow strong in the face of death”, something that may have proved difficult after having defeated his last worthy enemies, and Marika sealed the Rune of Death.
Regarding Radagon, and without saying too much now, I think it’s extremely interesting that Marika refers to Radagon as her “other self” and compares Radagon to a hound in the same breath.
I wasn’t aware of some of this cut dialogue so I’ll have to do some investigating!
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it! 😄
Holds water. Nice work.
this sounds unhinged, lets strap in for the ride
I think Godfrey banished is more of a political reason for Marika to invade the hornsent, since we have some evidence they may have been allies beforehand. Mesmer soldiers use fighting styles influenced by Godfrey, and there is a notible rarety of mention of the Elden Lord.
Also in the Gaius arena, the dead soldiers are all banished knights, also warriors that use weather incantations. I guess we may have an answer as to for whom comander Niall traded his leg for.
Many of those betrayed by the Golden Order were natural allies to Godfrey, refardless of his lineage, sharing similar rituals and religious customs and symbols. The roundtable has banished knight armor all over and so does stormveil. They were a formal army once, whose allegiance for the war against the Hornsent was clearly in doubt.
Great video, very good line of reasoning with different elements of the game.
@@arditlika9388 This is a great point, and some things I probably could’ve touched upon in this video. I definitely think you’re right about Godfrey’s exile having political motivations. In my opinion, the war waged against the Shadow Realm was part of the effort to seal death, put into practice on a broader scale. As reads upon the Suppressing Pillar: “All manners of Death wash up here, only to be suppressed.” Also I do think that the Messmer Soldiers are connected to Godfrey (but I wanna save talking about that for next time I think 😜)
Thanks for the considered feedback and kind words 😊
I think the best video of Godfrey facts =)
Thanks so much! 🥹☺️
Two things that I wanted to bring up were the ties between axes and curved swords, as well as another reason that Marika may have stripped Godfrey of his grace. It seems that curved swords, such as the Khopesh and the Falcion, are real-life equivalents to the Dismounter, a sword meant to use the heft of the axe in its usage. Perhaps the iconography of axe-wielders is more ancient compared to relatively new heavier curved swords? As for Marika stripping Godfrey of Grace, I was under the impression that Marika took pity upon Godfrey, seeing that his main goal in life was to continue fighting until he met an opponent worthy of killing him. This is why she told him, along with his warriors, to wage war in a far-off land and meet death. She wasn't punishing him for embracing death, she was freeing him of the chains of lordship so that he might keep fighting until he was bested. Of course, we fight him in the end because the Elden Beast resurrects him (since we see that he's already been killed in the opening cinematic) in order to kill us, but at the end of the day we're just fulfilling both his and Marika's wish for him, to die a warrior's death. Even at the hands of his daughter, Nepheli.
@@thescottishwookie7999 considering how the game compares godhood to imprisonment, framing Godfrey being divested of his grace as a form of mercy is very interesting! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 😃
Literally was fighting a red bear and I was like this fight is so similar to Hourah Loux. Similar ground stomps, the half circle dodge, earthquake like attacks, and the constant pushing. Found the highland set and was like huh that’s how he learned his moves. Then this video comes out lol
When I realised the DLC actually added the Brave’s set to the game I started ricocheting off the walls 😂
@@kixsicksdon’t blame you at all! Happy they seemed to build on the lore of the set that got cut. Fantastic video. You and SilentEllipsis dropped banger first Elden Ring videos in the last few days that made my jaw drop. Awesome job!
@@WeAreTheReapers thanks so much! I really appreciate the support 😊
Needs more views... Algorithm? Where are you?
Great round up! My only suggestion is to leave the text up longer and talk over it if you have to.
I appreciate the kind words and constructive criticism! 😃😊
Have always thought the home of the Kaiden was a wintery place far north beyond the Lands Between. Mountaintops and Snowfield are wintery because of their altitude, not because they’re ok the north side of the island.
Great video ! Can t wait for the one about banished knights :p
So you think that badlands kaiden and Highlands are both the same land?
@@BatMatou I think the Highlands are the located in/ are the Forbidden lands, and the Badlands are outside the Lands Between. It’s where Godfrey resided after departing the Lands Between by boat, so I don’t think the Badlands are the same landmass.
Thanks for the kind words! 😄
@kixsicks i don t understand why the great highland axe speaks about several badland chiftains :S
Yo, quite the start brother!
I feel like you might have dismissed the idea of Godfrey eating Sarosh (or at least part of him) too quickly. Looking at how Dragon Communion works, it seems pretty likely, honestly, that parts of the divine beasts were consumed as part of the ritual.
Looking forward to your future content.
That’s a good point, and definitely may be the case! It’s hard to say for sure without hard evidence, but I think what is important is that they’ve figuratively “consumed” their souls, or runes. Exact methods may vary, but the theme of coalescing power is expressed in many ways in the Lands Between. Be it via literal consumption, like Dragon Communion, as you said, Anastasia’s cannibalism, Alexander’s scavenging, or Rykard’s gluttony. Or by waging a bloody conquest, like Godrey, or even the player character themselves. The main recurring theme is that feeding on death increases one’s own power.
“Is it not our sorry fate, to sup on death?"
Thanks so much for the feedback! 😊
I believe that there is more to be said about how Godfrey came to power.
Check out the Marais Mask, it's said to depict the progenitor of House Marais. It's design is a shoe in for a young Godfrey. There's a whole arc being implied here with Godfrey being granted a title and land holdings and etc. etc. His whole deal is very reminiscent of Conan the Barbarian. Even to the point of taking a kingdom and being banished in his elder years. Though Conan's story ends there with a sort of prophecy that he'll return, where Godfrey actually does.
Lord Bingus lore let's go!!!!
Promised Consort Bingus 🤯
Elden ring is the telling of the From Software connected universe timeline
I don't think the Blind Swordsman is Kaiden; I actually think he is of the ancient Rauh civilization, with the "flowing water" connection and his knowledge regarding Rot and how to seal it away. Plus, he doesn't use axes, but curved swords, and his fighting style isn't at all similar to Godfrey's or the Sellsword. Also no beast or storm connection.
However, Rauh was closely tied to the Crucible, and so is Godfrey and his Crucible Knights (as well as his two Omen sons, of course). It's possible, plausible even that there was some cultural contact between Rauh and the Highland/Kaiden people.
What i have always believed is that the kaiden lands (maybe the badlands) is the land mass visible north from miquellas haligtree
The red bears have the same grab move as Horah Loux.
When Godfrey says "Alas, I am returned." I swear he was dead before that. Godfrey is the only golden phantom in the game and he drank a potion very similar to how puppets are made.... We know that amber starlight can be made into potions to turn gods into puppets... Godfrey seems to be "willingly" or sacrificing something by drinking this potion. Since the Ritual of Radahn and Miquella showed us some things...( how Miquella prevents something from happening to Radahn with his arrival) Maybe Horah Loux and Godfrey are not the same person????
Ohhhhh lovely
Great theory, the only thing I disagree with is in regards to the Godslayer seal and incantations. I don't think Horah Loux was obssessed with death so much he would have artifacts of the godskins, I think its more he didnt care about death since if he lived he was now a stronger warrior, and if he died, he died a warriors death.
But I do think it goes to show how desperate Godrick was to have some amount of power, even if it was heretical power.
really shows the difference between Godrick and Nepehli (best girl by the way)
@@freljodiandao882 Yes this is more or less how I view things. I don’t think Godfrey was obsessed with, or wielded the power of death, but rather was willing to coexist with and struggle to overcome death. I also think he didn’t view himself or the Gods as being “above the law” in this regard. I think Godfrey believes the mightiest should rule, so if someone is capable of defeating him, he’d want for them to rule in his stead.
“Brave Tarnished… Thy strength befits a crown.”
Also, agreed, Nepheli is a badass 💅
Thanks for the feedback! 😁
Well Godrick was called inferior his whole life so him obsessing over power isn't much of surprise.
im a duck pop pop pop
do you think that the item description for the Brick hammer is possibly about Godfrey or is it possibly speaking about Radagon? Personally I felt that it seemed to hint at a Sparticus-like story of a slave rising to sack the Elden Ring equivalent of Rome.
The Long March and the Rebellion(s) that took place in the Weeping Peninsula are still something I’m uncertain of.
The Brick Hammer definitely seems to be alluding to Radagon imo. Obviously Radagon uses a hammer against us. The Brick Hammer is said to require “the strength of a giant” to wield it, and Radagon is directly compared to the giants in the description for the Giant’s Red Braid. The Brick Hammer describes a common labourer rising to “champion”, a term used to describe Radagon. “Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself” could perhaps be used to preface Miriel’s accounts of Radagon when he says “…a mere champion would be chosen for the seat of Elden Lord...”
Again, I’m still uncertain but at the moment, I’m leaning towards the idea of multiple rebellions having taken place in the peninsula. The rebellion of common folk, during or after Godfrey’s exile, resulting in Crucible related folks being enslaved in their place. And then inversely, the rebellion that is taking place when we visit Castle Morne. The Crucible folk finally enacting their revenge.
“A revenger's weapon, it is burdened with oceans of anger and regret.
One of the legendary armaments.
A lone surviving champion from a country now vanished was so determined to continue fighting that he claimed the swords of an entire clan of warriors.”
The Grafted Greatsword bears a lion sigil, and is of course grafted, both of which are strongly connected to the Golden Lineage.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on it for the time being 🙂
@@kixsicks My thoughts exactly.
Godfrey only really fits as the wielder because of his immense strength.
Nearly all other information and language seems to pint to Radagon and some possible transformation from a physically strong warrior to a more balanced sort, capable of casting golden order incantations proficiently. There also seems to be a bit of a string of greatswords linked to him and likely once wielded by him. He also is linked to the Leonine misbegotten, which are named radagon chimera in the game's code and Radagon children in the 1.00 version of the game.
If Radagon is at all the Lancealot to Godfrey's King Arthur, then it might even make sense that he joined Godfrey or was possibly liberated by Godfrey at Stormveil when Godfrey was sacking the place.
Back on topic, since the Kaiden warriors seem to be horsemen, do you think that Godfrey ever had a horse and could that possibly provide some link, though likely a distant one, to Torrent?
PS: On a related note, Eochaid apparently is Gaelic for horseman. Making me wonder if Eochaid is the \land where horsemanship originated from in the lands between.
@ Thats an interesting thought regarding Torrent I’ve never really considered. But it would certainly be fitting for Godfrey, leader of the Crucible Knights, to have a horned steed as his mount.
The Radagon being the Lancelot to Godfey’s King Arthur is a really good analogy as well. In my head, I like to imagine Godfrey as being a mixture of King Arthur, Conan the Barbarian, Odin and Oda Nobunaga.
And I had no idea about the translation of Eochaid! It’d certainly make sense, and I wonder if it could serve as a link between Eochaid and the Northerners, given the Kaiden’s proficiency at fighting on horseback 🤔
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This is definitely something I’ll be mulling over!
@@beansnrice321 Radagon came to the Golden Order at golden horse, there isn't any connections Radagon with Stormveil.
All of Stormveil links to Godfrey, Godrick and the sun.
I am subscribed to you. I don't remember why, so I went to look into your channel, but there was no other video. What happened?
You probably found his channel through someone else you're subbed to; I remember seeing a community post but not sure I remember from who. Smough maybe?
Scum Mage Infa 👏🤞
@@tuckddd9 thank you, frfr 👍
This was my first attempt at a lore video, with more to follow, hopefully. So keep your eyes peeled if youre interested in more! 😁
Woooo 🎉
I’m not sure, it seems like the Highlanders may not be related to the Kaiden sellswords
What is your opinion on the "old lord's talisman" depicting placidusax with only 4 heads, while specifically calling him the old lord. Do you think it's possible godfrey did indeed fight placidusax and defeated him, claiming one of his heads? We only see 2 of his heads on bayle afterall. We also have the fact that serosh might have served as the lord of beasts under placidusax in farum azula. I don't believe it's a stretch to say that serosh became godfrey's lion only after he defeated his lord.
@@patrascu1485 Yes! This what I was implying in the video when I compared Serosh’s subjugation and Marika’s acquisition of the Elden Ring. I find it hard to imagine the mighty Ancient Dragons would willingly offer up the power of the Elden Ring to anyone peacefully.
The Old Lord’s talisman is interesting though, bc it brings the timeline into question. Placidusax seems to have originally had 5 heads, has 4 on the OLT, and 2 when we meet him ourselves, with Bayle of course being in possession of the other 2. If it’s true that Godfrey removed 1 head himself, then does that mean the OLT was made after Placidusax’s battle with Godfrey, but before his battle with Bayle? 🤔
@@kixsicks I don't think we can really tell when the fight with bayle really happened, only that it happened after the one with godfrey (if it even was with godfrey anyway)
@@kixsicks But on another note, do you believe messmer was the first demigod born? And if yes, why?
@@patrascu1485 I think Messmer was most likely born of Radagon and Marika, given his red hair, the fact he has a corresponding butterfly (all the other demigods with corresponding butterflies seem to be children of Marika and Radagon) and the fact that the statue of Marika holding a presumably baby Messmer features a severed braid, which I think is symbolic of Radagon being excised from Marika’s identity.
But who was Godefroy?
Godefroy is the answer to everything
Probably more like with how Marika was, and from Orders of the FAKE Greater Will. Marika stripped Godfrey of his Title and Power and was thrown away once he was no longer needed.
On the point of beast hunters wearing blue - how about Bernahl’s blue-caped Beast Champion set?
Also, notice that the Beast Men have large curved swords with the same decorative patterning as Godfrey’s axe - likely taken from Serosh. It’s possible Hoarah Loux used to use curved swords before taking on Serosh’s axe in becoming Godfrey.
@@ModernMan12 Also, Serosh, Godfrey, and the Beastmen’s crowns are all extremely similar. As are the Beastmen’s braids to Godfrey’s.
To Bernahl, I’m not entirely sure what to make of him, but he definitely falls in line with Godfrey in many ways, ie. wears the “Beast Champion” set which is designed to make it look like the wearer is being mauled by lions, like Serosh with Godfrey, and the lions on the helm are grasping a cinquedea, which is associated with Farum Azula.
Yo, this is gas.
You have spoken zero falsehoods.
You have illuminated truth.
Actually, Godfrey is the daughter of Sellen and Rykard. And torrent is his grandfather.
@@TheScrootch TRUE 🙌
all false eternals try and dodge the concept and reality of death. nice emphasis on "explore" as opposed to "explained"
Dude, anyone can be anyone in this game. The lore is so non-specific in regards to anything that the fans can literally write any lore they want. The writers really need to put in some more work on characters and dialogue in this game. Give us a few damn cutscenes with some backstory. I love playing souls games, but their stories are awful. They do amazing world building, but storytelling... not their strong suit whatsoever, and it drives me nuts. Give us a good cutscene at the end, answering some questions and making the story feel complete. If your audience beats the game and isn't even sure if that was really the end cause the ending was so abrupt and felt so incomplete, then that's a problem you need to address. I'm not gonna stop playing souls games but this irritates me every time. After the elden ring dlc ending I was so irritated I didn't play again till a couple weeks ago. That was the worst ending in a game I've ever experienced. It's just over and then shows some sepia tones 10 second clip of miquella sitting by a chair in a blank void saying "I'm going to become a god and I want you to be my consort" to no one. Radahn wasn't even there. All that struggle for that shitty fucking ending. Struggle through that bossfight for that kinda garbage? I get pissed thinking about it. I like playing it but I just have to try and accept that the endings are always garbage. It's the only way to play souls games. Cool world and characters and garbage storytelling and even bigger garbage endings, shadow of the erdtree being the most garbage ending possibly of every movie, book, or game ever written. And the fact the world's and characters are so cool with interesting histories makes it even more irritating there's always tons of unanswered stuff about them. I love playing them, but God get your shit together with the storytelling fromsoft. If they gave us a few cutscenes that really answered our questions with some serious "no fucking way wow" moments they would have truly made something amazing. As they are, they're wonderfully fun and amazing. But that awful storytelling keeps them from reaching their zenith, their true potential. All that said, interesting theory, though. But again, anyone can be anything in this game. The fans basically just write the lore for the game since fromsoft didn't write any. Miyzaki says he likes it that way. I think he needs to quit using that excuse to write good dialogue.
Cringe,plus we aint reading all dat
@bloodhoundfang then don't read it. Some people have the ability to read and hold their attention span for 20 or 30 seconds. Some don't. Clearly you are the latter. Sounds like a you problem.
@@emdeejay7432 it's not that,it's just that it's crap and you don't know what you're talking about 😂
@bloodhoundfang it's called an opinion, and I know plenty of people who think the endings in this game suck and they need some better storytelling. I can see by your screen name. However, your entire identity is elden ring, so obviously, it would be impossible for you to admit a flaw in it. I love souls games I play all of them repeatedly, but they need some better storytelling. They build amazing worlds and characters, but they leave so many details out, and the endings are terrible. You're telling me you were satisfied with the non-existent ending of shadow of the erdtree?
@@emdeejay7432 another paragraph? Yeah your opinion sucks lol