Here's the explanation video for those who REALLY want it ruclips.net/video/TW5_9iLW9Wg/видео.html it's an hour and twenty minutes of unscripted and mostly unedited rambling, so if that's what you're after, have at it.
At the 5 min "tank" audio clips are from the game series Command and Conquer from Westwood times, aka the good, popular, golden and innovative times of the series.
You can save space with the oil refineries by placing them directly next to each other and making the piping system one or two tiles wider. This makes the whole row a bit wider, but shorter. It saves a few tiles of area.
I guess you found out why I did it with Trains ;) I tried the same back in 2017 and came to the same conclusion: It is super cool, but just doesn't scale. Too bad, since trucking would be an amazing addition to Factorio
the Transport Drones mod could also work for this city block design but not with parking lot and smart assigning the cars.. but they would only drive on the streets :D
> Too bad, since trucking would be an amazing addition to Factorio I agree. That would be _trucking awesome_ ! To all mod devs reding here: Is it possible to make roads which basically behave like tracks? I#e# a "road facing north" for the right side of a road and a road facing south for the left side? That would decrease path-finding complexity massively, because there wouldn't be any decisions to take between two intersections. Every single vehicle leaving one intersection would eventually hit one of the neighbor intersections. With that kind of road, vehicles would line up well, too. You dispatched three at the same time? No problem, they will form a convoy on their own. For the intersections themselves, one could mimic the "chain signal logic" and only allow a vehicle to enter an intersection if there's enough space to leave it.
not just that it doesn't scale, it's also slow to scale... if it had its own programming language or so, rather than the finnicky signals, surely it'd be easier to make working setups
35:28 "Works 99% of the time, just let it fail." A frighteningly accurate portrayal of what it's like to be a real software developer. You've actually done a great job of explaining Day 1 bugs in a way the common man can understand it.
As an SE myself, that's what I love about Dosh's videos. People only see the few minutes of "It works until it doesn't, but no one sees the literal WEEKS it took to get to that point (as well as the number of times our brains had to "reboot" because thinking up all this stuff and keeping track of it is the whole point of computers.... except we have to tell the computer what to keep track of in the first place and already forgot half the stuff we told the computer to keep track or what it does... and no we're not reading our own documentation that explained it 2 months ago but sounds like a foreign language today). XD Dosh's videos really keep me motivated knowing I'm not alone in this. I kind of want to play factorio myself for therapeutic purposes just to remind myself we spend days on logic gates "for fun".
Heck some rocket were allowed to have memory leaks, but they were allowed to happen because they built in enough memory so that theoretically it would happen like 60s after that stage was ejected. Then that same software was used for a future versions of the rocket... With expected results.
@@joschaugustenborgnielsen2366 i believe it was the Arianne 4, they then reused the same hardware for the Arianne 5 and on the first launch it just turned 90 degrees cause, now you had more data and instruments to handle so it ran out of memory mid flight, instead of after separation.
the fact that THIS one almost made you lose your mind and not the one where you made an entire base out of train cars makes me so excited to watch this :D
honestly, the train car one wasn't so bad once you figured out the basic gist and stopped vomiting the burner one though... especially when he suddenly started to go on a 20 minute rant about how to fill the train burner inserters i thought "okay, we lost him"
where most engineers use their knowledge to find gloriously engineered, great solutions to problems, you used your knowledge of engineering to find a gloriously engineered, terrible solution to a problem. you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of integrity (moving the ore patches closer, using superbots) for the sake of The Run and for our entertainment, and you're not afraid to get a little bit technical with the audience. you're my favorite youtuber.
@@nonamenolastname8501Trust me, I'm an engineer¹! ¹ This project has been created for recreational purposes only. Do not use for training or real life applications of any scale.
@@ronim.h2769 There's still a lot of rts games coming out and getting a decent following. There's a recent Starship Troopers themed one in particular that stands out.
"I think this thing is alive. I cannot fanthom where this error is comming from, so it only make sense than this thing is using its one modicum of free will to torment me" I think that's the most accuraterepresentation of the relationship between me and my programs.
The Logi-Brain striking back at its creator and driving him mad with its free will is giving me some serious Frankenstein vibes. I wonder how well somebody could create a Factorio horror story that was less about the aliens and more about the machines.
Your clock-driven encoder decoder sounds a lot like slotted ALOHA for local WiFi networks. Each node gets a time during each cycle to transmit and the router knows which node it's talking to based on the time during the cycle. It's very inefficient but it avoids collisions. It's neat seeing you came up with the same idea from a completely different place!
Time-based allocation is also how cellphones work, the allowable cellphone frequencies have been utterly full for a long, long time as it is, they eventually started allocating each number an amount of time- Essentially the same thing he does here. The technology is called TDMA. Honestly I was kind of astounded when I saw him do it, I wondered for a moment if he perhaps wasn't a telecom engineer, but if not he kind of invented TDMA on his own.
Honestly the brain to control all the trucks is honestly mind blowing to imagine creating. I really do think you should do a video on it as I imagine its quite the project so why not get some more views :)
Yeah, it is very impressive. All of my logic creations are abominations compared to this. I can never get myself to sit down and design it first so I just keep cobbling things together until it eventually works just well enough.
Isnt this guy a vhdl engineer or at least computer scientist irl? So writing controllers, bus protocols, pipelined cpus should be in his portfolio of capability to say the least?
This guy has the audacity to call himself lazy after spending around 100 hours and all of his braincells doing a challenge in a video game. He then spent 20+ hours making a neural network more intelligent than all of humanity combined, having to make a 1 hour and 20 minute video to simply explain how it works. Words cannot describe how both terrified and impressed I am at what he's done to humanity and the world by unleashing that monster on his patreon for download. One of my favorite youtubers for sure.
Dear god. I attempted something like this with AAI once. I never could figure out an idea of how to handle the signal issue that wasn't short of building a computer, or consuming a landmass equal in size to the UK just for pathing. Good to see my theory was completely correct, and I'm glad I never went through that fresh hell. Lmao @ around 24m: No. No I can't believe this whole thing actually works.
As a part of the 20% that watch straight through till the end I can confidently say you make the most consistently entertaining factorio content on RUclips. Your videos are a set time aside to watch situation not some background noise, love your content keep it up!
"Some Depots [could] be skipped indefinitely, if they were caught of the backend of some harmonic cycle of at least three depots continuing ta make fail-pulls" w h a t
You need at least a cycle of three depots failing, and causing the next depot in the cycle to fail to cause indefinite failures. Such that you need a 3-harmonic cycle with 3 depots in such a cycle to cause this. You can have a 5-harmonic cycle with 10 depots trapped in it.
There is another mod called transport drones. It adds little trucks that work like bots, but only on special roads and can carry multiple stacks. It's also better performance because trucks don't have collision and can rotate in place making pathfinding much simpler
"Without debugging tools, it is impossible to spot a one-frame mistake that happens once every 20 minutes" Yes. Maybe there could be a mod for that? There is the controllinator that lets you stop circuit networks or debug them one step at a time. But I guess that can only get you so far.
Holy ****, this is amazing. The amount of effort and work that went into making this optimized is just insane. This is peak-Factorio. I used to comment on your vids saying I needed to see how you would manage Space Exploration, but after watching what you accomplished here... uh, I think Space Exploration is going to be an entire order of magnitude _easier_ than whatever you did making LogiBrain. (also,
See, I think I had a premonition when I looked at the unit controller back when I messed with the AAI mod. And it told me to never use it unless I was ready. I can see now that I clearly saved myself at least 100 hours from being added to the playtime of that save file.
I love it... there is only one problem with the round-robin ID-based connection, which is that as the number of terminals/depots increases, the longer your full clock cycle needs to be, so the longer the delay between each depot getting their next turn. Sure, you'd probably need a few thousand depots before this actually becomes a problem, but for true scalability you need depots to be able to send their requests at any time / on any tick. To achieve this I recommend using red wires for control and green for actual data. Each "network card" in each depot will need combinators to cache any sent request, and an extra SENDING signal sent over the control wire (used to detect sending-collisions), with a value exactly equal to 1. Each will also need some logic to read that signal on the tick where you're sending, and if it is exactly 1 you know the message was sent successfully without another device also sending at the same time. If it is greater than 1, then 2 cards attempted to send on the same tick and both failed and must retry.... then you need some kind of way to pseudo-randomise a number of ticks delay, so that when they resend it's most likely to be on different ticks. This can, of course, have it's own problems with too many things being likely to send at the same time, so it can only really work if each device only sends very small amounts of traffic. And of course, you need to tune the resend delays sensibly. But in theory this approach can scale out nicely while reducing expected delays compared to a round-robin approach. The downside is it's probably twice as much combinator insanity, and its way WAY harder to debug (though I actually see those as benefits)! I have my own personal modular suite of various network cards that operate either in this mode (for request/response type messaging), or a round-robin mode (for shared-bandwidth realtime data monitoring), or a sort of hybrid of both for different purposes. And I made a few versions, like Sender-Only, Reciever-Only. Sender/Reciever. Senders with an 8 message cache buffer. Once I was on a roll I guess I went a little bit mad with it. All of them are of course mostly useless, as long before their utility can be properly realised at the scale they're intended for, UPS effectively reaches zero!
That was basically my thought as well. I knew scalability would be a problem, but it would only come into play in the thousands. Also, horror to actual electronics, but it became much more efficient once I added a module that paused and rolled back the clock whenever data was being handled so everything would eventually get handled every "cycle." I was planning for it to reach its limit around 800 Depots, but the UPS limited me way before that.
i never have played factorio. Have never watched anyone play factorio, (before Dosh). Have never talked about factorio. But i have subscribed to this channel because i love Doshs' voice and how interesting and funny he can make all this. Please keep it up i look forward to every video!
Fun fact, you can mine Uranium with the Miner vehicles. You need to give them drums of Sulfuric Acid and they will periodically consume one and create an empty drum
the red alert reference is insane, my childhood game. Always found resemblance between Factorio and Red Alert and welp someone else did, amazing vid keep up the good content
Це той контент, про який я мрію. Я переглядаю ваші речі, тому що вони надзвичайно приємні. Зараз я не можу висловити вам нічого, окрім вдячності, але знайте, що вони дуже подобаються. Дякуємо вам за одні з найприємніших відео на RUclips!
if you want an actually doable version of this challenge, i would recommend the mining drone and transport drone mods, its basically bots with pickaxes and bots on wheels, the transport ones even follow roads.
I can honestly say I understood maybe half of what was going on in this video, but like a great ape watching someone do a magic trick, I am still legitimately impressed. Well done! Oook.
Dude I love your content so much, your new video is the biggest highlight of my youtube notifications. Sad to see how little views you get for such high-effort content :(
@@DoshDoshington Looooove your content. I don't play Factorio, but I sure as hell enjoy watching you play it. I find the video you made on Marrow to be very interesting as well, would love to see more like that
@@DoshDoshington This may be two weeks old, but youtube is really starting to favor more long-form content. Especially long-form videos on games like Factorio. If you want examples of long-form videos, video essays are particularly popular, as are those (typically) low-effort iceberg videos. Hell, I was recommended your Marrow video from nowhere last week.
The guy actually made time-divison multiplexing[1]. As in: every block has end has a slot of time(a frame every "") to send its signal through a shared channel. I don't know if Factorio would support frequency-division[2] multiplexing (maybe people could pull up their own using accumulators?) [1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-division_multiplexing [2]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexing
I cant even believe the small ass amount of credit you gave yourself for this one. You wired a computer inside of your computer to run a bunch of square computers. You realize this right?
13:20 Im pretty sure you can use the mining vehicles, if you supply them with acid Also, you can make use of paths to set up an automated traffic system on roads that are frequently used. Instead of using pathfinding to get from A to B, you can go from A to the start of the path and once the Hauler finishes it, you can let it pathfind to B again. This way you can, for example, set up a highway with zero pathfinding in between and upon exiting it, they go back to using that biter AI.
The C&C joke in the beginning made me want to see the Factorio and Conquer mod. I've always been too scared to touch it with that whole ores that spread on their own thing.
This is the content I dream about. I rewatch your stuff because it's super enjoyable. I can't give you anything other than appreciation right now but know these are well loved. Thank you for what are quite honestly some of the most enjoyable videos on RUclips!
Watching the haulers crash into stuff was so freaking funny to me for some reason. The base and your gigabrain thing is amazing, i really wish the game/mods could handle atleast like 500 haulers
I can't recommend "transport drones" enough. I'm currently in a run pretty similar to this one, with blocks defined by roads. There are thousands of drones driving around and still zero lag. It's a beauty to watch them go by.
Thats cool. I cant wait for the factorio expansion... and the new possibilities that will give us and modders going forward. I wished developpers gave more info than they did when they announced it.
*Tip for space exploration:* you can walk over basic pipes; you don't need undergrounds to actually move in your oil setup. (Although it looks cursed to have a straight pipeline from a pump like 5 years away from your nuclear)
That combinator setup is sick! I would love to hear that 20-minute explanation! Man, i need to learn how to use them! Any good tutorials that you know of?
8:00 is really why challenges are useful. you get to experience some stuff you'd never use in your normal base but then you realise it can actually be useful
The tip at 12:26 alone made this video worth watching. Just when I thought I had learned everything for this game. I've built so many bot-based malls/hubs and never knew this.
I can't believe only such a small amount of people watches your videos till the end :( They're so well made, super entertaining, and the solutions you come up with are imo really cool and smart. Thanks for putting the effort into making these!
this video has finally made me notice how genuine hell factorio is i cant understand atleast half of the video, and if i did, id probably be screaming in unimaginable mental pain until i get an aneurysm thank you for doing things i cannot do
I honestly dont understand how so many people can just skip to the end of these videos, thats like waiting for a movie to come out that you are really exited for and then skipping through it till you get to the parts you see in the trailer
This is very nice. In effect you have built a serial communication interface. The whole thing seems a lot like I2C/IIC, since you're running a clock line and a two-way data line to do your work, even complete with a master device and various connected slave devices.
Honestly. Given what I know about cities the bodging things together in ways that don't make expansion the easiest sounds basically spot on for real life. Also damn this is crazy and I love all of it. Thank you.
2 года назад+7
"It's got trains, and that's way too efficient for any american city I've ever seen" Well, the game is being done in Prague, in the Czech Republic, by a bunch of Czechs (and non-Czechs, but I think the Czechs are still the slight majority :D) ;-)
Honestly, watching this again the most impressive thing about the Logi-brain system is that it's more adaptable and consistent than some AI for automation games as a whole regarding transport systems being dynamic... It's genuinely amazing.
Instead of having the super brain control everything, what if each depot had a mini brain? If a depot needed iron it would send instructions on how to get there from a set location to a relay which will pick out a vehicle with iron and upload the instructions to said vehicles. Yes this would mean the parking lot would have more than just empty vehicles but it should bring down the complexity of the super brain.
So the system would be an agent based system like Erlang (which is closer to phone systems, but is probably used in the internet backbone). The bot wrangler would effectively be a finite priority queue strapped to a semaphore bag that hands out idle and empty transport id's. The depots could pull transport id's from depots that provide their input, and it's a choice between sending back that id back to the empty/idle semaphore, or reserve it for their own output. Otherwise, the depots could directly push filled outputs to another depot. Though, this is pretty much the train logistics system on crack.
To work around the pathfinding, you could actually create your own pathfinding solution. Each intersection is spaced on an even grid, so you can resolve the entire path very easily with the ingame computers. You just path the intersections with an A* algorithm, and feed simple moves straight moves to the AI. They still have to pathfind, but it will resolve quickly since it will be all straight lines. Sounds complex but it's actually way simpler than the fleet manager you made!
I have never played a game of factorio, nor do I understand anything about engineering, but somehow the absurdity of the goals you have, combined with the moving parts all over the screen and your relaxing explanations of stuff I still fail to understand makes me enjoy every single video I've watched of yours. This one probably lost me the most simply because of the Logibrain but I loved every moment of confusion I was struck with.
Watching the logi-brain come together I was immediately paralysed by the inevitable hell that would follow from the lack of debug tools. At least you were able to use your lab as a testing environment, but man, it demonstrates some incredible patience and problem-solving skills.
Hey! I love your content (especially the marrow video) and it has made me want to play factorio again! Are there any quality of life or just really nice mods you have used that you would recommend for less experienced players? I want to have an authentic experience, but also have played vanilla before and have had plenty of gripes.
I play Factorio Raw, but longreach and squeak through are classics. There's also a mod called companion drones that allows you to make ground-based construction robots from the start to help with the early stage. I'll sometimes use Earandel's Combat Mechanics overhaul because I like my walls to block spitter goo. But for me I usually play with Alien Biomes, Textplates, Nixie Tubes, and Bullet Trails/Combat Mechanics Overhaul. There's probably more but I can't think of them off the top of my head
Watching this still blows my mind because after 1200 hours in this game I have not even begun to grasp the idea of the circuit network and doing the kind of stuff you did with the "Logi-brain".
I've had ambitions of a highway-network base in factorio since I started playing and it's so lovely to hear someone else had the same vision. Already liked the video and WILL be in the 20% that watches the whole thing
This is amazing. My friends tried to do something similar and when I realized it would require a logi brain it was a hard exit for trying to use the mod for our attempt at logistics and we just went for the bot spam instead. The big lag from AAI is unfortunate and it was used to sabotage the run when we made 20 chain gunners a minute on an auto deploy factory; it just becomes unplayable.
This timed ID system for the Logi-Brain is exactly how I wanted to do trains in my playthrough! I didn't want to have a train dedicated to each resource, so each module would input what resources it was missing on it's ID frame, then that would be loaded into one of a few trains and sent to it.
i guess i get not everyone wants to watch an hour long video but like ive been rewatching every factorio vid youve made since you started making them and always to the end cuz this shit is art
You using Command and Conquer 95/Red Alert voice lines and sound effects is disgustingly perfect with the later issues you have with your drones trying to pathfind. Those games used a simple A* pathing and the vehicles took constant babysitting if you had a large group.
Here's the explanation video for those who REALLY want it
ruclips.net/video/TW5_9iLW9Wg/видео.html
it's an hour and twenty minutes of unscripted and mostly unedited rambling, so if that's what you're after, have at it.
Pls make a mega base in minecraft with create, they added trainz, after you finish the space exploration mod of course
Thank you!
you shouold call this LTN (Logistic Truck Network
At the 5 min "tank" audio clips are from the game series Command and Conquer from Westwood times, aka the good, popular, golden and innovative times of the series.
You can save space with the oil refineries by placing them directly next to each other and making the piping system one or two tiles wider. This makes the whole row a bit wider, but shorter. It saves a few tiles of area.
An engineer has fallen into despair in Factorio City!
I'm pinning this until I finish my explanation video
HEY!
Build the new logibrain!
[Hour long sped-up building footage]
Send out the cargo haulers!
And comfort him with /American Engineering!/
The new logibrain collection from Factorio City.
Each set sold seperately
Would it actually be a true city if you DIDN'T have the occasional horn honking, though?
Could be a feature added to AAI: honk every time it moves to the next order, slam the horn if there is an error.
There is a honk mod for these dreadfully efficient trains tho
replace the honking audio file with the vine boom
I guess you found out why I did it with Trains ;)
I tried the same back in 2017 and came to the same conclusion: It is super cool, but just doesn't scale. Too bad, since trucking would be an amazing addition to Factorio
Maybe in ten years they'll have PCs powerful enough to handle the true might of Factorio City
the Transport Drones mod could also work for this city block design but not with parking lot and smart assigning the cars.. but they would only drive on the streets :D
> Too bad, since trucking would be an amazing addition to Factorio
I agree. That would be _trucking awesome_ !
To all mod devs reding here: Is it possible to make roads which basically behave like tracks? I#e# a "road facing north" for the right side of a road and a road facing south for the left side? That would decrease path-finding complexity massively, because there wouldn't be any decisions to take between two intersections. Every single vehicle leaving one intersection would eventually hit one of the neighbor intersections. With that kind of road, vehicles would line up well, too. You dispatched three at the same time? No problem, they will form a convoy on their own.
For the intersections themselves, one could mimic the "chain signal logic" and only allow a vehicle to enter an intersection if there's enough space to leave it.
@@achtsekundenfurz7876 Yes, just really hard
not just that it doesn't scale, it's also slow to scale... if it had its own programming language or so, rather than the finnicky signals, surely it'd be easier to make working setups
35:28 "Works 99% of the time, just let it fail." A frighteningly accurate portrayal of what it's like to be a real software developer. You've actually done a great job of explaining Day 1 bugs in a way the common man can understand it.
As an SE myself, that's what I love about Dosh's videos. People only see the few minutes of "It works until it doesn't, but no one sees the literal WEEKS it took to get to that point (as well as the number of times our brains had to "reboot" because thinking up all this stuff and keeping track of it is the whole point of computers.... except we have to tell the computer what to keep track of in the first place and already forgot half the stuff we told the computer to keep track or what it does... and no we're not reading our own documentation that explained it 2 months ago but sounds like a foreign language today). XD
Dosh's videos really keep me motivated knowing I'm not alone in this. I kind of want to play factorio myself for therapeutic purposes just to remind myself we spend days on logic gates "for fun".
Heck some rocket were allowed to have memory leaks, but they were allowed to happen because they built in enough memory so that theoretically it would happen like 60s after that stage was ejected. Then that same software was used for a future versions of the rocket... With expected results.
@@DanielLopez-up6os which rocket may i ask, would like to read up on that
@@joschaugustenborgnielsen2366 i believe it was the Arianne 4, they then reused the same hardware for the Arianne 5 and on the first launch it just turned 90 degrees cause, now you had more data and instruments to handle so it ran out of memory mid flight, instead of after separation.
@@DanielLopez-up6osI want to add that it was more cost-effective to just solder more physical RAM onto the chip than actually fix the software :D
the fact that THIS one almost made you lose your mind and not the one where you made an entire base out of train cars makes me so excited to watch this :D
Trust me, I’m a engineer
@@flyingpugs3678 I think, we'll put this thing right here
honestly, the train car one wasn't so bad once you figured out the basic gist and stopped vomiting
the burner one though... especially when he suddenly started to go on a 20 minute rant about how to fill the train burner inserters i thought "okay, we lost him"
666 neat
Finally, the definitive answer is that cars are cringe and trains are the superior mode of transportation
where most engineers use their knowledge to find gloriously engineered, great solutions to problems, you used your knowledge of engineering to find a gloriously engineered, terrible solution to a problem.
you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of integrity (moving the ore patches closer, using superbots) for the sake of The Run and for our entertainment, and you're not afraid to get a little bit technical with the audience.
you're my favorite youtuber.
"A gloriously engineered, terrible solution to a problem."
Might as well be my new motto
(I swear the superbots were an accident)
@@DoshDoshingtonIt's at least the motto for the Renai Transportation video lmao
Keep up the good work man
@@nonamenolastname8501Trust me, I'm an engineer¹!
¹ This project has been created for recreational purposes only. Do not use for training or real life applications of any scale.
I feel like Factorio would unintentionally revive the RTS genre with a creative mind.
Perhaps if a person explaining a screenshot causes every play with under 1000 hours to have a stroke.
revive?? it's still very much alive
@@OutbackCatgirl Wdym?
@@ronim.h2769 There's still a lot of rts games coming out and getting a decent following. There's a recent Starship Troopers themed one in particular that stands out.
Ever heard of Mindustry?
"I think this thing is alive. I cannot fanthom where this error is comming from, so it only make sense than this thing is using its one modicum of free will to torment me"
I think that's the most accuraterepresentation of the relationship between me and my programs.
Accurate representation*
@@Birdthetoddlersnatcher shut up
Reassembly
The Logi-Brain striking back at its creator and driving him mad with its free will is giving me some serious Frankenstein vibes. I wonder how well somebody could create a Factorio horror story that was less about the aliens and more about the machines.
there is/was one on Fimfiction that took that theme
The logistic bots got tired of being bossed around and they've turned against the engineer
@@animarthur5297 WE DEMAND CHEESE!
@@logistic-bot458 Out of cheese error. Redo from start.
If you have read enough of Terry Pratchett's discworld, you will know what this means.
Your clock-driven encoder decoder sounds a lot like slotted ALOHA for local WiFi networks. Each node gets a time during each cycle to transmit and the router knows which node it's talking to based on the time during the cycle. It's very inefficient but it avoids collisions. It's neat seeing you came up with the same idea from a completely different place!
I'm surprised to see other people who also drew this connection
Time-based allocation is also how cellphones work, the allowable cellphone frequencies have been utterly full for a long, long time as it is, they eventually started allocating each number an amount of time- Essentially the same thing he does here. The technology is called TDMA.
Honestly I was kind of astounded when I saw him do it, I wondered for a moment if he perhaps wasn't a telecom engineer, but if not he kind of invented TDMA on his own.
Also old networks back in the 80/90s, sounds exactly like old wired connection that used hubs.
isn't that called a multiplexer?
@@JulianSkiesThis concept is fairly well known, it's called "time division multiplexing". Probably what the TDM in TDMA stands for.
Honestly the brain to control all the trucks is honestly mind blowing to imagine creating. I really do think you should do a video on it as I imagine its quite the project so why not get some more views :)
Yeah, it is very impressive. All of my logic creations are abominations compared to this. I can never get myself to sit down and design it first so I just keep cobbling things together until it eventually works just well enough.
Isnt this guy a vhdl engineer or at least computer scientist irl?
So writing controllers, bus protocols, pipelined cpus should be in his portfolio of capability to say the least?
@@hu-ry yea obviously. still really cool to see what some people can do
I like the idea of robotic semi trucks in factorio it would be another rung in the logistics ladder.
@@hu-ryohhhh, that explains it
Logi Brain going "WHOMP" just once every few minutes really cracked me up. I think that's hillarious.
The hardest challenge run for Factorio: Making a base that is aesthetically pleasing from the start.
Yes you have to clean pollution too.
What!? Why!?
Blue waters and clear skies devoid of smoke are hardly pleasing to the eye of a Factorio player
@@gerickollarena Never said it had to be pleasing to the player.
@@npswm1314 what if only thing pleasing to me is chaos and hell?
@@tomtomi93 Then you go watch Let's game it out
Basically my modded playthroughs.
This guy has the audacity to call himself lazy after spending around 100 hours and all of his braincells doing a challenge in a video game. He then spent 20+ hours making a neural network more intelligent than all of humanity combined, having to make a 1 hour and 20 minute video to simply explain how it works. Words cannot describe how both terrified and impressed I am at what he's done to humanity and the world by unleashing that monster on his patreon for download. One of my favorite youtubers for sure.
You described much more eloquently how I feel. Thanks for this!
Dear god. I attempted something like this with AAI once. I never could figure out an idea of how to handle the signal issue that wasn't short of building a computer, or consuming a landmass equal in size to the UK just for pathing. Good to see my theory was completely correct, and I'm glad I never went through that fresh hell. Lmao
@ around 24m: No. No I can't believe this whole thing actually works.
As a part of the 20% that watch straight through till the end I can confidently say you make the most consistently entertaining factorio content on RUclips. Your videos are a set time aside to watch situation not some background noise, love your content keep it up!
Same. I've lost a few hours of sleep because I'll throw one on and watch all the way to the end because it's so oddly fascinating.
Based on just looking at logibrain, i actually think that with a bit of tweaking to make itself expandable it could be classified as alive
Definitely no, but I get the point
But at that pijbt it's literally a machine learning algorithm
@@Cecil_Augus We don't really have a solid definition for "aliveness", but "capable of independent self-replication" is a fairly common one so...
i don't think it's even turing complete, it fits more the definition of a finite state machine, so no, probably not capable of becoming intelligent.
@@eduardopupucon it doesnt need to be intelligent to be alive but i dont believe it would be alive tho
Its super nice that you thought about preventing the engineer from falling asleep by introducing the occational beep-sound
During that play by play my only thought was, "idk wtf he's saying but GO TEAM DOSHINGTON!"
"Some Depots [could] be skipped indefinitely, if they were caught of the backend of some harmonic cycle of at least three depots continuing ta make fail-pulls"
w h a t
You need at least a cycle of three depots failing, and causing the next depot in the cycle to fail to cause indefinite failures. Such that you need a 3-harmonic cycle with 3 depots in such a cycle to cause this. You can have a 5-harmonic cycle with 10 depots trapped in it.
@@Dan-gs3kgI love this explanation for how it is probably correct, but it does not help me at all. One day....
Logi-brain will definitely go down in Factorio's history
There is another mod called transport drones. It adds little trucks that work like bots, but only on special roads and can carry multiple stacks. It's also better performance because trucks don't have collision and can rotate in place making pathfinding much simpler
Yeah, a Factorio City revisit with those has been on my list for a while
@@DoshDoshingtonOooh!
I'm sure you've got other projects in the pipes right now, but I'd love to see that eventually.
"Without debugging tools, it is impossible to spot a one-frame mistake that happens once every 20 minutes"
Yes. Maybe there could be a mod for that? There is the controllinator that lets you stop circuit networks or debug them one step at a time.
But I guess that can only get you so far.
Or maybe something that could just log circuit history locally?
Editor mode can pause and unpause firbx amount of ticks
Holy ****, this is amazing. The amount of effort and work that went into making this optimized is just insane. This is peak-Factorio.
I used to comment on your vids saying I needed to see how you would manage Space Exploration, but after watching what you accomplished here... uh, I think Space Exploration is going to be an entire order of magnitude _easier_ than whatever you did making LogiBrain.
(also,
If SE gets too tame, there's also Pyanodon.
4:39 Never tought someone would make Command & Conquer out of Factorio, good stuff
See, I think I had a premonition when I looked at the unit controller back when I messed with the AAI mod. And it told me to never use it unless I was ready. I can see now that I clearly saved myself at least 100 hours from being added to the playtime of that save file.
This is why you program a code generator.
I love it... there is only one problem with the round-robin ID-based connection, which is that as the number of terminals/depots increases, the longer your full clock cycle needs to be, so the longer the delay between each depot getting their next turn. Sure, you'd probably need a few thousand depots before this actually becomes a problem, but for true scalability you need depots to be able to send their requests at any time / on any tick.
To achieve this I recommend using red wires for control and green for actual data. Each "network card" in each depot will need combinators to cache any sent request, and an extra SENDING signal sent over the control wire (used to detect sending-collisions), with a value exactly equal to 1. Each will also need some logic to read that signal on the tick where you're sending, and if it is exactly 1 you know the message was sent successfully without another device also sending at the same time. If it is greater than 1, then 2 cards attempted to send on the same tick and both failed and must retry.... then you need some kind of way to pseudo-randomise a number of ticks delay, so that when they resend it's most likely to be on different ticks.
This can, of course, have it's own problems with too many things being likely to send at the same time, so it can only really work if each device only sends very small amounts of traffic. And of course, you need to tune the resend delays sensibly. But in theory this approach can scale out nicely while reducing expected delays compared to a round-robin approach. The downside is it's probably twice as much combinator insanity, and its way WAY harder to debug (though I actually see those as benefits)!
I have my own personal modular suite of various network cards that operate either in this mode (for request/response type messaging), or a round-robin mode (for shared-bandwidth realtime data monitoring), or a sort of hybrid of both for different purposes. And I made a few versions, like Sender-Only, Reciever-Only. Sender/Reciever. Senders with an 8 message cache buffer. Once I was on a roll I guess I went a little bit mad with it. All of them are of course mostly useless, as long before their utility can be properly realised at the scale they're intended for, UPS effectively reaches zero!
That was basically my thought as well. I knew scalability would be a problem, but it would only come into play in the thousands. Also, horror to actual electronics, but it became much more efficient once I added a module that paused and rolled back the clock whenever data was being handled so everything would eventually get handled every "cycle." I was planning for it to reach its limit around 800 Depots, but the UPS limited me way before that.
i never have played factorio. Have never watched anyone play factorio, (before Dosh). Have never talked about factorio. But i have subscribed to this channel because i love Doshs' voice and how interesting and funny he can make all this. Please keep it up i look forward to every video!
start playing factorio, its too good, especially with friends imo
@@terdragontra8900 I have to agree. Well, when I had 1 friend that played Factorio it was better.
@@mikeburgess1688 No joke, if you want to play with me sometime I'd be happy to, I have nothing to do all summer
@@terdragontra8900 right on!
Don't play it man, save yourself. It's hell you will walk into.
Fun fact, you can mine Uranium with the Miner vehicles. You need to give them drums of Sulfuric Acid and they will periodically consume one and create an empty drum
the red alert reference is insane, my childhood game. Always found resemblance between Factorio and Red Alert and welp someone else did, amazing vid keep up the good content
Це той контент, про який я мрію. Я переглядаю ваші речі, тому що вони надзвичайно приємні. Зараз я не можу висловити вам нічого, окрім вдячності, але знайте, що вони дуже подобаються. Дякуємо вам за одні з найприємніших відео на RUclips!
if you want an actually doable version of this challenge, i would recommend the mining drone and transport drone mods, its basically bots with pickaxes and bots on wheels, the transport ones even follow roads.
I can honestly say I understood maybe half of what was going on in this video, but like a great ape watching someone do a magic trick, I am still legitimately impressed. Well done! Oook.
Dude I love your content so much, your new video is the biggest highlight of my youtube notifications. Sad to see how little views you get for such high-effort content :(
I just started in February. Genuinely, I'm astonished I already get as much as I do.
@@DoshDoshington Well you really do deserve every single one of them, that's for sure.
@@DoshDoshington Looooove your content. I don't play Factorio, but I sure as hell enjoy watching you play it. I find the video you made on Marrow to be very interesting as well, would love to see more like that
@@DoshDoshington This may be two weeks old, but youtube is really starting to favor more long-form content. Especially long-form videos on games like Factorio.
If you want examples of long-form videos, video essays are particularly popular, as are those (typically) low-effort iceberg videos.
Hell, I was recommended your Marrow video from nowhere last week.
Where is Grace? ;)
The logibrain and indeed the whole execution is absolutely bananas. Hats off.
The solution for transmitting data seems a lot like time-division multiplexing
It is, practically
Serial communication!
The guy actually made time-divison multiplexing[1].
As in: every block has end has a slot of time(a frame every "") to send its signal through a shared channel.
I don't know if Factorio would support frequency-division[2] multiplexing (maybe people could pull up their own using accumulators?)
[1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-division_multiplexing
[2]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexing
don't you just love it when gamers reinvent computation methods under the pressure of video game challenges?
Frequency division is using different signal types @@matheusjahnke8643
Those C&C unit movement voice lines really threw me back into a nostalgia trip.
I cant even believe the small ass amount of credit you gave yourself for this one.
You wired a computer inside of your computer to run a bunch of square computers. You realize this right?
13:20 Im pretty sure you can use the mining vehicles, if you supply them with acid
Also, you can make use of paths to set up an automated traffic system on roads that are frequently used. Instead of using pathfinding to get from A to B, you can go from A to the start of the path and once the Hauler finishes it, you can let it pathfind to B again. This way you can, for example, set up a highway with zero pathfinding in between and upon exiting it, they go back to using that biter AI.
You deserve a lot more attention, the amount of effort that goes into these videos is crazy. Thank you for the content I hope you continue to grow!
The C&C joke in the beginning made me want to see the Factorio and Conquer mod. I've always been too scared to touch it with that whole ores that spread on their own thing.
This is the content I dream about. I rewatch your stuff because it's super enjoyable. I can't give you anything other than appreciation right now but know these are well loved. Thank you for what are quite honestly some of the most enjoyable videos on RUclips!
I aspire to your levels of mad genius
it's definitely alive
Watching the haulers crash into stuff was so freaking funny to me for some reason.
The base and your gigabrain thing is amazing, i really wish the game/mods could handle atleast like 500 haulers
I can't recommend "transport drones" enough. I'm currently in a run pretty similar to this one, with blocks defined by roads. There are thousands of drones driving around and still zero lag. It's a beauty to watch them go by.
??
Awesome, been looking forward to a new video
A million people have probably already said this but a city using trains to bulk haul ore long distances would still make perfect sense
Thats cool. I cant wait for the factorio expansion... and the new possibilities that will give us and modders going forward. I wished developpers gave more info than they did when they announced it.
*Tip for space exploration:* you can walk over basic pipes; you don't need undergrounds to actually move in your oil setup. (Although it looks cursed to have a straight pipeline from a pump like 5 years away from your nuclear)
Undergrounds have way better throughput typically because every pipe end only counts as 1 pipe and the skipped distance isnt accounted for
the mod i always wanted to see someone play this will be interesting
the fact that you made a computer, albeit basic in funciontality, in factorio, is so impressive to me!
That combinator setup is sick! I would love to hear that 20-minute explanation!
Man, i need to learn how to use them! Any good tutorials that you know of?
8:00 is really why challenges are useful. you get to experience some stuff you'd never use in your normal base but then you realise it can actually be useful
AAI is probably one of the most interesting and powerful mods when it comes to doing things differently. If you have access to a beast of a PC
You have just reinvented Time Division Multiplexing lmao.
Okay, definitely liking for that C&C kick-in, awakened a bit of lost excitement for me and now I want a FactorioxC&C total conversion
"I can fix that!" - Egnegnering
The logibrain is seriously amazing. 20 hrs to complete it is kind of crazy -- I'd expect much longer
The train conveyer truely is the hight of human ingenuity
The tip at 12:26 alone made this video worth watching. Just when I thought I had learned everything for this game. I've built so many bot-based malls/hubs and never knew this.
I can't believe only such a small amount of people watches your videos till the end :( They're so well made, super entertaining, and the solutions you come up with are imo really cool and smart. Thanks for putting the effort into making these!
this video has finally made me notice how genuine hell factorio is
i cant understand atleast half of the video, and if i did, id probably be screaming in unimaginable mental pain until i get an aneurysm
thank you for doing things i cannot do
Love your factorio vids❤️❤️
I honestly dont understand how so many people can just skip to the end of these videos, thats like waiting for a movie to come out that you are really exited for and then skipping through it till you get to the parts you see in the trailer
This is very nice. In effect you have built a serial communication interface. The whole thing seems a lot like I2C/IIC, since you're running a clock line and a two-way data line to do your work, even complete with a master device and various connected slave devices.
Honestly. Given what I know about cities the bodging things together in ways that don't make expansion the easiest sounds basically spot on for real life. Also damn this is crazy and I love all of it. Thank you.
"It's got trains, and that's way too efficient for any american city I've ever seen"
Well, the game is being done in Prague, in the Czech Republic, by a bunch of Czechs (and non-Czechs, but I think the Czechs are still the slight majority :D)
;-)
Honestly, watching this again the most impressive thing about the Logi-brain system is that it's more adaptable and consistent than some AI for automation games as a whole regarding transport systems being dynamic... It's genuinely amazing.
Instead of having the super brain control everything, what if each depot had a mini brain?
If a depot needed iron it would send instructions on how to get there from a set location to a relay which will pick out a vehicle with iron and upload the instructions to said vehicles.
Yes this would mean the parking lot would have more than just empty vehicles but it should bring down the complexity of the super brain.
*Several iterations of your idea later*:
DoshDoshington posted a new video:
Here's how I reinvented the internet in factorio
Touché
So the system would be an agent based system like Erlang (which is closer to phone systems, but is probably used in the internet backbone). The bot wrangler would effectively be a finite priority queue strapped to a semaphore bag that hands out idle and empty transport id's. The depots could pull transport id's from depots that provide their input, and it's a choice between sending back that id back to the empty/idle semaphore, or reserve it for their own output. Otherwise, the depots could directly push filled outputs to another depot.
Though, this is pretty much the train logistics system on crack.
Love the use of Tiberian Sun Nod buggy/attack cycle voice lines for the chain gunners bit. Nice touch
To work around the pathfinding, you could actually create your own pathfinding solution. Each intersection is spaced on an even grid, so you can resolve the entire path very easily with the ingame computers. You just path the intersections with an A* algorithm, and feed simple moves straight moves to the AI. They still have to pathfind, but it will resolve quickly since it will be all straight lines. Sounds complex but it's actually way simpler than the fleet manager you made!
Not the place I was expecting a Command & Conquer reference, but a welcome one for sure.
YOU POSTED AHHHHH!!!!
as much as i dig the randomness of your factorio videos, the Command & Conquer reference has made this my favorite of your videos
Sports
I have never played a game of factorio, nor do I understand anything about engineering, but somehow the absurdity of the goals you have, combined with the moving parts all over the screen and your relaxing explanations of stuff I still fail to understand makes me enjoy every single video I've watched of yours. This one probably lost me the most simply because of the Logibrain but I loved every moment of confusion I was struck with.
Your lag reduction reminded me of how the US imported foreign workers for laboring and ended up killing them when they were done
The amount of work you put into these videos is... impressive, and intimidating. and that logi-brain is terrifying.
I think this video alone is enough to earn a degree in both civil engineering and networking simultaneously.
Watching the logi-brain come together I was immediately paralysed by the inevitable hell that would follow from the lack of debug tools. At least you were able to use your lab as a testing environment, but man, it demonstrates some incredible patience and problem-solving skills.
Hey! I love your content (especially the marrow video) and it has made me want to play factorio again! Are there any quality of life or just really nice mods you have used that you would recommend for less experienced players?
I want to have an authentic experience, but also have played vanilla before and have had plenty of gripes.
I play Factorio Raw, but longreach and squeak through are classics. There's also a mod called companion drones that allows you to make ground-based construction robots from the start to help with the early stage. I'll sometimes use Earandel's Combat Mechanics overhaul because I like my walls to block spitter goo. But for me I usually play with Alien Biomes, Textplates, Nixie Tubes, and Bullet Trails/Combat Mechanics Overhaul. There's probably more but I can't think of them off the top of my head
@@DoshDoshington Thanks for a quick reply, friend! Also, keep doing what you do, I love it all!
Watching this still blows my mind because after 1200 hours in this game I have not even begun to grasp the idea of the circuit network and doing the kind of stuff you did with the "Logi-brain".
I want this world's seed. It's so beautiful.
Needs more concrete tbh, I could still see some grass outside the base
The C&C part made me smile thanks
I've had ambitions of a highway-network base in factorio since I started playing and it's so lovely to hear someone else had the same vision. Already liked the video and WILL be in the 20% that watches the whole thing
Train networks are quite common
This is amazing. My friends tried to do something similar and when I realized it would require a logi brain it was a hard exit for trying to use the mod for our attempt at logistics and we just went for the bot spam instead.
The big lag from AAI is unfortunate and it was used to sabotage the run when we made 20 chain gunners a minute on an auto deploy factory; it just becomes unplayable.
Just when I thought I couldn't love your content any more, you hit me with the extended Command and Conquer reference!
4:21 was when I realized, Factorio could be an alternative Red Alert 1/2 simulator.
God bless whoever made that mod. Now I can play two games in one.
This timed ID system for the Logi-Brain is exactly how I wanted to do trains in my playthrough! I didn't want to have a train dedicated to each resource, so each module would input what resources it was missing on it's ID frame, then that would be loaded into one of a few trains and sent to it.
i guess i get not everyone wants to watch an hour long video but like ive been rewatching every factorio vid youve made since you started making them and always to the end cuz this shit is art
There is something soo amusing watching someone descend into the pits of madness and explaining it with such a deadpan voice. :)
I love the C&C lines used on the turret bot part
Doshdoshington is the type of youtuber you'd randomly find and then start watching all his videos like a movie
just a bit of gratitude for LogiBrain™'s invention. This might be haunted of course but i love concepts behind its mechanics.
I can't tell you how many times I've watched this video. I'm blown away every time 😊
You using Command and Conquer 95/Red Alert voice lines and sound effects is disgustingly perfect with the later issues you have with your drones trying to pathfind. Those games used a simple A* pathing and the vehicles took constant babysitting if you had a large group.
those moving turrets at the beginning and the trucks are amazing, holy cow. i want it yesssssss
That was great. Especially loved the little bits of KSP soundtrack in the background.
Okay, gotta love the C&C overlay you put on here at 4:50. That brought me back
The second I see the command and conquer bit I knew I would love this video.