Is there any concern with galvanic corrosion between the cooper/steel damascus? It looks amazing, but I always thought if you had copper and steel touching the steel would eventually corrode by reacting with the copper
@@GrimDarkHistory Wouldn't this only be an issue either with an electrical current or an electrolytic solution being at play? I imagine it would be fine when layered like.
@@seekerend even humid air can serve as an electrolyte. I've always loved the look of that copper damascus, but, you'd think even just washing the blade could cause issues over time. It's why I asked. I wonder if these age well or if there's that risk
When defferent metals are in contact, a metal with a low ionization tendency will corrode a metal with a high ionization tendency in the presence of water molecules. It is a chemical phenomenon called galvanic corrosion. The ionization tendency of copper and iron is Cu < Fe. This means that copper forge-welded knife rust more easily than knives made entirely of steel. It is natural that Japanese bladesmiths who know San-Mai (三枚) technick very well did not hand down copper forge-welded knife.
I’m quite familiar with the process and what galvanic corrosion is. These blades do need to be kept clean and dry and oiled occasionally and they will stay beautiful for ages. Thanks for watching
Welcome to the channel, Scott! I'm happy this was helpful. I was just in Seward this past May... beautiful place! I know a couple makers not that far from you as well.
@@TyrellKnifeworks Hope you had a great visit in Seward, and I am sure you are talking about Cambell knives. I am 53 and that little shop has been there as far back as I can remember
@@scottkendrick2644 I did visit Cambell knives while I was there, but you have two RUclipsrs pretty close to you. Heavy_Forge (Spencer) is in Anchorage and Mystic Mountain Forge (Matt) is in Fall River. I know both of those guys.
I have a multi layered billet of wrought iron and copper made up but I'm not sure how I am going to shape it down to what I need since I don't want to do a full stock removal on the project, its not a knife so forging it down will be interesting....I may have to keep welding up the edges
Fantastic video again. Very hard to find a lot of help and guides here in the UK. I’ve watched your copper Damascus Bowie build a dozen times, what a stunning creation! Was wondering though, as I’ve only a forge, what sort of temperatures are needed to heat treat and what would be the temper cycles needed? Keep up the awesome work!!!!
Thanks, Sid! I’m glad it was helpful. For heat treating, just concentrate on your core steel and worry about that. Don’t worry about the copper, if you melt it out, you totally blew the heat treat anyway. So do your normalization, grain reduction cycles and quench as you would if the copper wasn’t there. Make sense?
Hey, it actually worked! I used 0.6mm (0.024") copper and 2.5mm (0.098") old industrial wood saw blade (probably 15N20). I aimed at dull orange (ca. 850-900'C i.e. 1560-1650'F), which is what the billet @11:10 looked to my eye. I might have gone a little too hot (it's somewhat difficult to control/see the temperature accurately in a charcoal forge), and the last leveling run with the power hammer probably raised the temperature enough for some of the copper to melt, get squeezed out, and actually stick on the outside of the billet. Oh, well. The result looked pretty nice anyway, at least for a quick "for sh*ts and giggles" type first attempt with exactly zero cost. Hope the heat treatment goes well. I think next I'll try 52100 for the core, maybe four layers of copper, and perhaps damascus as the outer shell. I wonder if damascus (only) between the copper strips would look stupid. Also, I think a copper/nickel mokume gane (or just copper/steel) bolster could look good in this kind of copper damascus blade. Thanks for a very well made and informative video!
Congrats! Send me a pic for Viewer Knives. I’m glad my videos helped you with this process. This blade is Damascus only between the layers so we’ll see when it’s etched. Thanks for watching!
Enjoyed the video as always.....hope you had a wonderful vacation last week....when you said not to make the core by doubling up steel I had a flashback of me doing just that🤣 and yes the copper just melted out from between the steel layers 😅
The vacation last week was very relaxing! I ALMOST did the double-up in the last cu-mai billet I did. I was literally about to fire up the welder and then realized what I was doing. 😜.
Yeah, that’s one I’ve never done. It has never really turned me on much though. I’m getting into the more complex mosaics though. 👍. Thanks for watching, Josh!
It would really be great to see you do a copper Damascus billet with hammer instead of the press. I'm curious how you draw out the billet with a hammer without flattening the edges. Keep up the great work, Love the channel!
hey denis awesome video buddy i cant wait to try this out i almost have my 10x20 workshop finished then i can start moving my stuff in and get to forging this has been on my to do list for sure happy new year Mark
excellent video, really thank you very much for this spectacular content, especially for clarifying those points that surely several of us generated doubts such as structural resistance, temperatures, etc. I'm eager to see how that elven sword looks
Thanks Tyrell, great vid. So basically you do stock removal after forging to the desired thickness? I would also like to try with a hand hammer. I was thinking of trying bronze too
Yes, exactly, stock removal after it's been forged to a billet. This is the suggested method for all layered constructions like San mai or you risk thinning out the core and/or moving it off-center. It will work with bronze, but you need to keep it under about 1600F because it's melting point is about 200F lower. Thanks for watching, Theo!
Bronze is as hard as some steels but not as tough so in this sense should work very well and will support the cutting edge very successfully. I believe the melting point of copper tin bronze is a touch lower than copper but...Phosphor bronze melting point is slightly higher than tin bronze. However you might have fun sourcing sheets of phosphor bronze since its usually used cast and machined
No, I haven't ever let it go green. That actually takes a really long time. The green you see on building rooftops is from years and years of rain and oxidation. If you did that to a knife like this, the steel would rust long before the copper would turn green I think. Thanks for watching.
Due to galvanic action, the steel will preferentially rust and protect the copper (like zinc protects galvanized steel). So you won't be able to achieve the beautiful green :(
Thanks for showing this to us. I bought the copper and am going to five it a try. hat you don't mention in your video is what temperature you use to heat treat it. Can you tell me what temp to use? I'm aware you don't want to be held to anything and it's not a high rockwell type knife but I'd like to have a starting point for heat treating. Any help would be great...
The heat treat is just what you use for the core steel. If it’s 1095, use the heat treat regiment for 1095. The copper doesn’t matter. Checkout my heat treating video if you need recipes on heat treating the various steels. Note, the hrc doesn’t go down because there’s copper in it.
Sure you could do that. Just use flat dies to forge the whole thing instead of using the rounding dies. If doing it by hand, you would just make sure to use the flat side of your hammer instead of a ball or cross-peen. Thanks for watching, Jonas.
@@TyrellKnifeworks that is fantastic ^^ I was thinking that, after watching the Feather Damascus video, it could look pretty awesome with feather Damascus outer layers... but only with a straight copper line. And thank you! I really enjoy your videos.
@@jonasoffersen5818 That would look pretty cool! I also think a herringbone (two opposing twists welded together) as the cladding would look pretty awesome.
I was welding up some san mai billets today and kind of considered doing one, but on a long, very thin knife I think I was probably dipping a bit too far in to press my luck already and have probably melted a small fortune making mokume gane in the past. (honestly you look away for 2 sec and end up with a puddle!) In the long term is there any kind of cathodic or anodic, galvanic corrosion? If I remember my chemistry right copper plays well with nickel, stainless and brass but its a bit 'middling' with mild steel under some conditions if there some water, acids and caustic solutions at play.
Galvanic corrosion requires the presence of an electrolyte like salt water. Keep the knife clean and dry like you would any normal carbon steel knife and it will last a lifetime. Generally, if you keep the steel from rusting, the copper will be fine too. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks Yeah its a bit of a risk where I am in the world next to the ocean and most of my stuff is kitchen cutlery so its just a bit tough. Aluminium bronze might work ok but its quite uncommon in shim stock and low melting temp (compared to steel)
I did a 7 layer and got steel on steel to stick. The two steel (15n2 & 1084) were on the outside, not core. So it went like this, 4242 core, copper, 1084 then 15n20. It worked!
I question the quality of the forge weld. You just can’t forge weld steel below 1900F. Perhaps you liquified the copper but it stayed in place. Thanks for watching
@@TyrellKnifeworks I had it welded up tight all around the stacked plated, so yes, maybe it went liquid for a bit. I wasn't hitting it real hard while setting the welds so that would have kept it from a blow out
The edges of the billet that were welded tend to crack because the copper contaminates the weld. Then it tends to squirt out molten copper when you press it. If you’re hand hammering, you’ll see it shoot out at each hit. Thanks for watching, Gordon.
So how do you handle normalization/heat treatment? If you need to get the knife up to non magnetic before quenching wont that make the copper melt out?
The heat treatment for all carbon steels is below 1600F. Copper melts at 1980F, so its totally fine. Also note, non-magnetic is NOT the temperature you target for quenching. For example, non-magnetic for 10xx series steel is about 1425F but the quench temp is about 1475-1485F, so you're off by 50-60F if you quench at non-magnetic. Thanks for watching.
Was just gunna add that. Per most reviewed spec sheets copper melts at 1984 degrees depending on impurities. We should all have a good knowledge of melting points of ferrous alloys and non ferrous metals.
I tried this out and thought I had a good weld. When I started grinding the profile, it split on one side. There was copper braised to both prices of steel, it seemed it was the copper itself that serperate. Any idea why that would happen? I wonder if I got it too hot grinding it?
I’ve never had that happen. It likely was the heat treat and there was so much stress it pulled the copper apart but not where it bonded to the steel. Try again! Thanks for watching.
I haven't heart treated it yet, that's the wierd part. I can email you a photo if you'd like to see it. Thanks for sharing your experience!! If gone both feet into the deep end with knifemaking and blacksmithing and watching your videos has helped accelerate the learning curve so much! I actually found your channel long before I had an interest in doing it.
I should have talked about delamination. That is not an issue if the blade is kept dry after use, just like you would a carbon steel knife. Brazing bonds do not delaminate over time without the presence of some electrolyte. Thanks for watching.
Yes it certainly will, but its a bit more difficult because bronze and brass have a lower melting point by about 200F, so you then need to keep the billet under 1600F when forging. Thanks for watching, Kip!
So you do not clean the copper (apart from degreasing?) At all? Etching the oxides and contaminants off the copper might be something to look into. I have worked with CuNiFer before (tig welding the stuff) and something to consider is very good ventilation when welding the billet because copper welding is not very good for your health.
You don’t need to grind the copper clean if that’s what you mean. It always comes clean when I’ve ordered it. If you’re forging you should always have good ventilation for carbon monoxide issues. Thanks for watching
sir i love damascus i saw alot of your videos i dont know you will do or not but if you dont mind can you make anything like dagger or knife whatever you want with multiple layers of copper and steel damascus i mean 20 or 30 layers what ever you like i would love to watch that video regards
@@TyrellKnifeworks sir i saw damascus videos with 1 layer and 2 layers of copper between steel, i mean to say if you can make 20 or 30 + layers of copper between steel i hope you understand what i mean to say regards
@@TyrellKnifeworks sir sorry for disturbing you but your one of the best knife maker i know on youtube i know that many layers a lot but will it work or not ? there is only one way to find out by making and i hope you will make it regards
Ước gì mình được bạn làm tặng cho mình một cái bay, mình là thợ hồ 👷, mình ở Việt Nam mình rất thích những video của bạn làm, chúc bạn năm mới nhiều thành công sức khỏe, Happy New Year 🎆
A good way to avoid debate is to call it what it is out the gate ,kinda a waste to have to over explain don’t you think I save myself the Agony and call it the pattern it is without the word Damascus Raindrop pattern steel Latter pattern steel Twist pattern Right 👊🏼✌🏽 Thank you triple T
Except nobody know's what the hell you're talking about when you say it that way. We all know what modern damascus is. If its good enough for master smiths to refer to it that way, do we really need to "correct" them??
Look, at this point everyone refers to any steel with a pattern as Damascus. Get over it. There’s no need to correct people. We all get there’s a difference but I can tell you that most makers think it’s incredibly pretentious to correct them and tell them to use the “proper” term. It’s just a douchey thing to do. Sorry, but this is how I feel. It’s like correcting people for saying Kleenex instead of tissue.
@@TyrellKnifeworks alrighty ,the beginning of your video can make it seem foolish to correct something that don’t need correction I’m good with it man ,doesn’t take from your skills or experience,✌🏽
It's really not that much different. You would hammer the billet evenly to ensure it's welded and then use a cross-peen hammer to put in the valleys. It's not something that different that I'd do a different video on it. Thanks for watching.
For cast iron and wrought iron, you need to preheat the steel and let it cool slowly. If you just try to mig it like you do regular steel, it’s going to fail and crack. It certainly can be welded. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks I forgot to mention, I enjoyed the video and learned a lot, thankyou for sharing your process.. Also, I should have been more specific, while you technically can weld wrought, it's not a good idea to enclose it when using to make a San Mai billet. More so if there's a lot of loose silica present in the grain of the wrought. You wouldn't flux a billet and the go and weld it closed, right? You'll get the same result with wrought.
Perfect way to say it... armchair couch critics that should pick up a hammer and be a maker, get creative and enjoy life instead of talking about it and thinking they are entitled to something. Keep doing what you're doing. I would have never thought of doing a copper damascus. I've added copper for decorative and used nickel silver in blades. Gunna give this a go. Thanks for posting
Great video! I hate that every maker now has to put this disclaimer at the start of every video stating they refer to pattern welded steel as Damascus. We get it, you internet cowboys out there have nothing better to do with your time than troll people online.
Tất cả nhiệt độ được đề cập trong video đều là độ F. Google Translate chắc đã dịch nhầm nếu bạn thấy nó ghi Celcius. Đây là một video khá cũ và trong các video gần đây hơn, tôi cung cấp các giá trị được chuyển đổi Celcius bằng văn bản trong video. Cảm ơn đã xem.
I think by now, damascus has just become a generic term. I've seen it used for non-metal as well, different colored resins for example. So really the term has evolved from its original meaning to just describe a kind of pattern resulting from mixing two or more "things" together. The pedants who try to keep the antiquated meaning going are akin to the same guys who state that a rifle is not an AR unless it's made by Colt or that any vacuum cleaner is not necessarily a Hoover. Language evolves and adopts generics from specifics.
Unless I'm mistaken, nobody truly knows what Damascus is though right? Or at least how it was made? This is all based on the memories of a late night Internet search some time ago, but if that is the case then what we now define as Damascus is just a word for layered metal and the ackchyually squad can all let their keyboard rest.
We DO know what Damascus is/was and how to make it. People like to say and think it has some mysticism around it but it’s just not true. I have a buddy who has made crucible steel (wootz aka Damascus). Thanks for watching
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Do you have any questions on this process or steps I missed? I didn't cover grinding or etching this but I've talked about that in videos in the past.
Is there any concern with galvanic corrosion between the cooper/steel damascus? It looks amazing, but I always thought if you had copper and steel touching the steel would eventually corrode by reacting with the copper
@@GrimDarkHistory Wouldn't this only be an issue either with an electrical current or an electrolytic solution being at play? I imagine it would be fine when layered like.
@@seekerend even humid air can serve as an electrolyte. I've always loved the look of that copper damascus, but, you'd think even just washing the blade could cause issues over time. It's why I asked. I wonder if these age well or if there's that risk
Can you make it with brass instead of copper?
You should try stainless steel and copper together!
When defferent metals are in contact, a metal with a low ionization tendency will corrode a metal with a high ionization tendency in the presence of water molecules. It is a chemical phenomenon called galvanic corrosion. The ionization tendency of copper and iron is Cu < Fe. This means that copper forge-welded knife rust more easily than knives made entirely of steel. It is natural that Japanese bladesmiths who know San-Mai (三枚) technick very well did not hand down copper forge-welded knife.
I’m quite familiar with the process and what galvanic corrosion is. These blades do need to be kept clean and dry and oiled occasionally and they will stay beautiful for ages. Thanks for watching
This is the best tutorial on cu Mai I have seen so far. Great work Dennis
Thanks, Brigham! I’m glad it was helpful. 👍
Nice to know. I've got cu-mai on my 2022 bucket list and this vid helps a lot. Thanks!
I'm glad it was helpful! I look forward to seeing you pull it off!
Wow,use of copper is amazing.
Thanks for watching, Dinesh!
This answered a lot of questions I had, I think copper Damascus is beautiful and I want to see many more forged items out of it!
Thanks Nikos! You’ll undoubtedly see more of this technique!
I will, one day get one of your copper Damascus hunting knives!!! I absolutely love your work!
Thanks so much, Jared! After I finish my JS knives, I'll get back to more of these.
Good technical info on the process!
Thanks for watching!
Great video Dennis a lot of good information
Thanks, David! I'm happy it was helpful!
Thanks for this lesson, timing for me is awesome BTW! new sub as well. Blessings from Seward Alaska🔨
Welcome to the channel, Scott! I'm happy this was helpful. I was just in Seward this past May... beautiful place! I know a couple makers not that far from you as well.
@@TyrellKnifeworks Hope you had a great visit in Seward, and I am sure you are talking about Cambell knives. I am 53 and that little shop has been there as far back as I can remember
@@scottkendrick2644 I did visit Cambell knives while I was there, but you have two RUclipsrs pretty close to you. Heavy_Forge (Spencer) is in Anchorage and Mystic Mountain Forge (Matt) is in Fall River. I know both of those guys.
Wow, Denis! ... Great video my brother! You answered every question I had about making Copper Damascus/Cu Mai. Thanks for sharing! 😎👍🏻🔨🔥🗡️
I’m glad it was helpful, Bob!
Thanks again for another great video!
I'm happy it was helpful. Thanks for watching, Stephen!
I have a multi layered billet of wrought iron and copper made up but I'm not sure how I am going to shape it down to what I need since I don't want to do a full stock removal on the project, its not a knife so forging it down will be interesting....I may have to keep welding up the edges
This was a really great video! Thanks for this!
I’m glad it was helpful, Phil!
Thought about using Sliver?
Sure, but nickel looks exactly like silver and it’s 1/10 the cost. But gold… 😍
Fantastic video again. Very hard to find a lot of help and guides here in the UK. I’ve watched your copper Damascus Bowie build a dozen times, what a stunning creation! Was wondering though, as I’ve only a forge, what sort of temperatures are needed to heat treat and what would be the temper cycles needed? Keep up the awesome work!!!!
Thanks, Sid! I’m glad it was helpful. For heat treating, just concentrate on your core steel and worry about that. Don’t worry about the copper, if you melt it out, you totally blew the heat treat anyway. So do your normalization, grain reduction cycles and quench as you would if the copper wasn’t there. Make sense?
@@TyrellKnifeworks perfect, thank you
Love your work man, I think I’m gonna try this again, last time it failed I got way too hot and sprayed liquid copper across my forge lol
Yeah, I’ve had that happen. It sucks but you forge on. Keep trying, you’ll get it. 👍
Good stuff, Ill have to try doing this, this year.
Give it a try! Thanks for watching!
Great video...Thanks as always for the tips. Im going to try this.
That's great, I'm glad it was helpful! Send me a pic for viewer knives when you're done. 👍🏻
@@TyrellKnifeworks will do!
Hey, it actually worked! I used 0.6mm (0.024") copper and 2.5mm (0.098") old industrial wood saw blade (probably 15N20). I aimed at dull orange (ca. 850-900'C i.e. 1560-1650'F), which is what the billet @11:10 looked to my eye. I might have gone a little too hot (it's somewhat difficult to control/see the temperature accurately in a charcoal forge), and the last leveling run with the power hammer probably raised the temperature enough for some of the copper to melt, get squeezed out, and actually stick on the outside of the billet.
Oh, well. The result looked pretty nice anyway, at least for a quick "for sh*ts and giggles" type first attempt with exactly zero cost. Hope the heat treatment goes well. I think next I'll try 52100 for the core, maybe four layers of copper, and perhaps damascus as the outer shell. I wonder if damascus (only) between the copper strips would look stupid. Also, I think a copper/nickel mokume gane (or just copper/steel) bolster could look good in this kind of copper damascus blade.
Thanks for a very well made and informative video!
Congrats! Send me a pic for Viewer Knives. I’m glad my videos helped you with this process. This blade is Damascus only between the layers so we’ll see when it’s etched. Thanks for watching!
Enjoyed the video as always.....hope you had a wonderful vacation last week....when you said not to make the core by doubling up steel I had a flashback of me doing just that🤣 and yes the copper just melted out from between the steel layers 😅
The vacation last week was very relaxing! I ALMOST did the double-up in the last cu-mai billet I did. I was literally about to fire up the welder and then realized what I was doing. 😜.
Now I need to see you make a jelly roll just because you can lol. This is pretty brilliant tech. Thanks so much for the deep dive!
Yeah, that’s one I’ve never done. It has never really turned me on much though. I’m getting into the more complex mosaics though. 👍. Thanks for watching, Josh!
It would really be great to see you do a copper Damascus billet with hammer instead of the press. I'm curious how you draw out the billet with a hammer without flattening the edges.
Keep up the great work, Love the channel!
Others have done it like Erick at The Rivers Experience and Airin at Alee Knives channels. Thanks for watching!
hey denis awesome video buddy i cant wait to try this out i almost have my 10x20 workshop finished then i can start moving my stuff in and get to forging this has been on my to do list for sure happy new year Mark
Definitely give it a try! That new spiffy workshop sounds like it’ll produce some amazing knives. 👍
excellent video, really thank you very much for this spectacular content, especially for clarifying those points that surely several of us generated doubts such as structural resistance, temperatures, etc. I'm eager to see how that elven sword looks
Thanks, Federico! I’m happy it was helpful. After the sword, I’ve got a bunch of mono-steel knives to make for my JS presentation test in June.
Very informative, thank you very much!
Thanks for watching, Greg!
great job
Thanks for checking it out!
Ich liebe kupfer als Metall, ich mag auch schwerter messer umd co. Und beides zusamnen... TOP
Danke fürs zuschauen!
Thanks Tyrell, great vid. So basically you do stock removal after forging to the desired thickness? I would also like to try with a hand hammer. I was thinking of trying bronze too
Yes, exactly, stock removal after it's been forged to a billet. This is the suggested method for all layered constructions like San mai or you risk thinning out the core and/or moving it off-center. It will work with bronze, but you need to keep it under about 1600F because it's melting point is about 200F lower. Thanks for watching, Theo!
Bronze is as hard as some steels but not as tough so in this sense should work very well and will support the cutting edge very successfully. I believe the melting point of copper tin bronze is a touch lower than copper but...Phosphor bronze melting point is slightly higher than tin bronze. However you might have fun sourcing sheets of phosphor bronze since its usually used cast and machined
Good stuff👏👏👏
Thanks for watching!
The copper Damascus is so cool. Have you ever let the copper tarnish to green on a knife?
No, I haven't ever let it go green. That actually takes a really long time. The green you see on building rooftops is from years and years of rain and oxidation. If you did that to a knife like this, the steel would rust long before the copper would turn green I think. Thanks for watching.
Due to galvanic action, the steel will preferentially rust and protect the copper (like zinc protects galvanized steel). So you won't be able to achieve the beautiful green :(
Thank you!
Thanks for checking this one out!
You make it look to easy bro, respect the all the work for you to get here.
Thanks, I appreciate that!
Thanks for showing this to us. I bought the copper and am going to five it a try. hat you don't mention in your video is what temperature you use to heat treat it. Can you tell me what temp to use? I'm aware you don't want to be held to anything and it's not a high rockwell type knife but I'd like to have a starting point for heat treating. Any help would be great...
The heat treat is just what you use for the core steel. If it’s 1095, use the heat treat regiment for 1095. The copper doesn’t matter. Checkout my heat treating video if you need recipes on heat treating the various steels. Note, the hrc doesn’t go down because there’s copper in it.
@@TyrellKnifeworks thanks much for the reply. That makes it pretty simple then. Going to do it this weekend. Here's hoping it comes out.
@@jjppres Let me know how it goes. Send me a pic for Viewer Knives. 👍🏻
Is it possible to make the copper line "straight"? So that it follow the curve of the blade rather than wobble?
Sure you could do that. Just use flat dies to forge the whole thing instead of using the rounding dies. If doing it by hand, you would just make sure to use the flat side of your hammer instead of a ball or cross-peen. Thanks for watching, Jonas.
@@TyrellKnifeworks that is fantastic ^^ I was thinking that, after watching the Feather Damascus video, it could look pretty awesome with feather Damascus outer layers... but only with a straight copper line.
And thank you! I really enjoy your videos.
@@jonasoffersen5818 That would look pretty cool! I also think a herringbone (two opposing twists welded together) as the cladding would look pretty awesome.
@@TyrellKnifeworks that would definitely look awesome! And I suppose it'd cause a more reasonable amount of stress... 🤔
I was welding up some san mai billets today and kind of considered doing one, but on a long, very thin knife I think I was probably dipping a bit too far in to press my luck already and have probably melted a small fortune making mokume gane in the past. (honestly you look away for 2 sec and end up with a puddle!)
In the long term is there any kind of cathodic or anodic, galvanic corrosion?
If I remember my chemistry right copper plays well with nickel, stainless and brass but its a bit 'middling' with mild steel under some conditions if there some water, acids and caustic solutions at play.
Galvanic corrosion requires the presence of an electrolyte like salt water. Keep the knife clean and dry like you would any normal carbon steel knife and it will last a lifetime. Generally, if you keep the steel from rusting, the copper will be fine too. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks Yeah its a bit of a risk where I am in the world next to the ocean and most of my stuff is kitchen cutlery so its just a bit tough. Aluminium bronze might work ok but its quite uncommon in shim stock and low melting temp (compared to steel)
I did a 7 layer and got steel on steel to stick. The two steel (15n2 & 1084) were on the outside, not core. So it went like this, 4242 core, copper, 1084 then 15n20. It worked!
I question the quality of the forge weld. You just can’t forge weld steel below 1900F. Perhaps you liquified the copper but it stayed in place. Thanks for watching
@@TyrellKnifeworks I had it welded up tight all around the stacked plated, so yes, maybe it went liquid for a bit. I wasn't hitting it real hard while setting the welds so that would have kept it from a blow out
I am curious, what happens if the copper liquifies but is sealed in the billet?
The edges of the billet that were welded tend to crack because the copper contaminates the weld. Then it tends to squirt out molten copper when you press it. If you’re hand hammering, you’ll see it shoot out at each hit. Thanks for watching, Gordon.
Aside from aesthetics, does adding copper offer any advantage to the structure of the blade?
No advantages other than looks. Thanks for watching, Eddie.
Great video,my question is could this be done without
Had. Press...
Yes of course it could. Just like a San mai billet. It’s probably the easiest kind of layered construction to do by hand.
@@TyrellKnifeworks thank you that was helpful
So how do you handle normalization/heat treatment? If you need to get the knife up to non magnetic before quenching wont that make the copper melt out?
The heat treatment for all carbon steels is below 1600F. Copper melts at 1980F, so its totally fine. Also note, non-magnetic is NOT the temperature you target for quenching. For example, non-magnetic for 10xx series steel is about 1425F but the quench temp is about 1475-1485F, so you're off by 50-60F if you quench at non-magnetic. Thanks for watching.
Was just gunna add that. Per most reviewed spec sheets copper melts at 1984 degrees depending on impurities. We should all have a good knowledge of melting points of ferrous alloys and non ferrous metals.
I tried this out and thought I had a good weld. When I started grinding the profile, it split on one side. There was copper braised to both prices of steel, it seemed it was the copper itself that serperate. Any idea why that would happen? I wonder if I got it too hot grinding it?
I’ve never had that happen. It likely was the heat treat and there was so much stress it pulled the copper apart but not where it bonded to the steel. Try again! Thanks for watching.
I haven't heart treated it yet, that's the wierd part. I can email you a photo if you'd like to see it.
Thanks for sharing your experience!! If gone both feet into the deep end with knifemaking and blacksmithing and watching your videos has helped accelerate the learning curve so much!
I actually found your channel long before I had an interest in doing it.
copper lines on blacked-out blades is just bossy!
That's me... super bossy, just ask my wife. 🤣🤣. Thanks for watching!
How would something like this hold up? Can it take the abuse that steel can or will it delaminate over time?
I should have talked about delamination. That is not an issue if the blade is kept dry after use, just like you would a carbon steel knife. Brazing bonds do not delaminate over time without the presence of some electrolyte. Thanks for watching.
عملك رائع جداً
هل ذهبت الى دمشق من قبل
لا ، لم أزر دمشق أو أي مكان بالقرب من سوريا. ربما يوما ما. شكرا للمشاهدة!
Would this work with brass?
Yes it certainly will, but its a bit more difficult because bronze and brass have a lower melting point by about 200F, so you then need to keep the billet under 1600F when forging. Thanks for watching, Kip!
So you do not clean the copper (apart from degreasing?) At all?
Etching the oxides and contaminants off the copper might be something to look into.
I have worked with CuNiFer before (tig welding the stuff) and something to consider is very good ventilation when welding the billet because copper welding is not very good for your health.
You don’t need to grind the copper clean if that’s what you mean. It always comes clean when I’ve ordered it. If you’re forging you should always have good ventilation for carbon monoxide issues. Thanks for watching
could i have 4 layers of copper? would that make a difference?
Sure, I’ve used double copper layers on each side separated by a thin sheet of 15n20 steel. Thanks for watching
sir i love damascus i saw alot of your videos i dont know you will do or not but if you dont mind can you make anything like dagger or knife whatever you want with multiple layers of copper and steel damascus i mean 20 or 30 layers what ever you like i would love to watch that video
regards
Have you seen the Dagger Challenge video? It’s pretty much that. Go back and look around April. 👍. Thanks for watching
@@TyrellKnifeworks sir i saw damascus videos with 1 layer and 2 layers of copper between steel, i mean to say if you can make 20 or 30 + layers of copper between steel
i hope you understand what i mean to say
regards
Oh, I see what you mean. It might be possible at 10, 20 or 30 is a LOT!
@@TyrellKnifeworks sir sorry for disturbing you but your one of the best knife maker i know on youtube i know that many layers a lot but will it work or not ? there is only one way to find out by making and i hope you will make it
regards
Ước gì mình được bạn làm tặng cho mình một cái bay, mình là thợ hồ 👷, mình ở Việt Nam mình rất thích những video của bạn làm, chúc bạn năm mới nhiều thành công sức khỏe, Happy New Year 🎆
Cảm ơn đã xem kênh, Danh!
A good way to avoid debate is to call it what it is out the gate ,kinda a waste to have to over explain don’t you think
I save myself the Agony and call it the pattern it is without the word Damascus
Raindrop pattern steel
Latter pattern steel
Twist pattern
Right 👊🏼✌🏽
Thank you triple T
Except nobody know's what the hell you're talking about when you say it that way. We all know what modern damascus is. If its good enough for master smiths to refer to it that way, do we really need to "correct" them??
@@TyrellKnifeworks so if the masters are wrong it’s all good 👍,
Look, at this point everyone refers to any steel with a pattern as Damascus. Get over it. There’s no need to correct people. We all get there’s a difference but I can tell you that most makers think it’s incredibly pretentious to correct them and tell them to use the “proper” term. It’s just a douchey thing to do. Sorry, but this is how I feel. It’s like correcting people for saying Kleenex instead of tissue.
@@TyrellKnifeworks alrighty ,the beginning of your video can make it seem foolish to correct something that don’t need correction
I’m good with it man ,doesn’t take from your skills or experience,✌🏽
can you show how to make cu mai without a press?
It's really not that much different. You would hammer the billet evenly to ensure it's welded and then use a cross-peen hammer to put in the valleys. It's not something that different that I'd do a different video on it. Thanks for watching.
Wow this is old!! Lol guess I won’t be asking anything here 😢 I’ll ask on a newer video 👍
What’s your question, Josh?
Just a correction, you can't weld the edges on all San Mai billets. Try it with wrought iron cladding and see what happens.
For cast iron and wrought iron, you need to preheat the steel and let it cool slowly. If you just try to mig it like you do regular steel, it’s going to fail and crack. It certainly can be welded. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks I forgot to mention, I enjoyed the video and learned a lot, thankyou for sharing your process.. Also, I should have been more specific, while you technically can weld wrought, it's not a good idea to enclose it when using to make a San Mai billet. More so if there's a lot of loose silica present in the grain of the wrought. You wouldn't flux a billet and the go and weld it closed, right? You'll get the same result with wrought.
The armchair terminology freaks are annoying! anyways great explanation on cumai Denis! I need to make some more of these blades!
I'm so sick of the armchair "experts" who like to correct me. 🙄. Thanks for watching, Spencer!
Perfect way to say it... armchair couch critics that should pick up a hammer and be a maker, get creative and enjoy life instead of talking about it and thinking they are entitled to something.
Keep doing what you're doing. I would have never thought of doing a copper damascus. I've added copper for decorative and used nickel silver in blades. Gunna give this a go. Thanks for posting
@@42icee Try it out! It's easier than you think! 👍🏻
Great video! I hate that every maker now has to put this disclaimer at the start of every video stating they refer to pattern welded steel as Damascus. We get it, you internet cowboys out there have nothing better to do with your time than troll people online.
Exactly! I’m so sick of it. Guys that have never made a blade in their life like to correct me?! Give it a rest. Thanks for watching, Andrew. 👍
Bạn đang dùng đơn vị độ C hay độ F vậy. Thấy gg dịch sub nói là độ C
Tất cả nhiệt độ được đề cập trong video đều là độ F. Google Translate chắc đã dịch nhầm nếu bạn thấy nó ghi Celcius. Đây là một video khá cũ và trong các video gần đây hơn, tôi cung cấp các giá trị được chuyển đổi Celcius bằng văn bản trong video. Cảm ơn đã xem.
@@TyrellKnifeworks cảm ơn bạn vì những video hướng dẫn. Em từ Việt Nam. Rất mong được đón tiếp anh sang chơi và du lịch ạ.
@@leanhduc4113 Có thể một ngày nào đó! ❤
I have a finished billet with the welds ground off the sides already but it's to thick, do I need to resend the sides before forging thinner?
@@mattbeegle6847it depends how good you are at heat control. If you can keep it under 1800F you don’t need to weld it.
I think by now, damascus has just become a generic term. I've seen it used for non-metal as well, different colored resins for example. So really the term has evolved from its original meaning to just describe a kind of pattern resulting from mixing two or more "things" together. The pedants who try to keep the antiquated meaning going are akin to the same guys who state that a rifle is not an AR unless it's made by Colt or that any vacuum cleaner is not necessarily a Hoover. Language evolves and adopts generics from specifics.
Yes, I believe the same. It has become the colloquial term for pattern in metal. Thanks for watching!
Unless I'm mistaken, nobody truly knows what Damascus is though right? Or at least how it was made? This is all based on the memories of a late night Internet search some time ago, but if that is the case then what we now define as Damascus is just a word for layered metal and the ackchyually squad can all let their keyboard rest.
We DO know what Damascus is/was and how to make it. People like to say and think it has some mysticism around it but it’s just not true. I have a buddy who has made crucible steel (wootz aka Damascus). Thanks for watching
не понимаю почему описание видео на Русском у меня а автор видео явно американец ? это ютуб так делает ?
Я перевожу названия всех своих видео на 9 языков. Спасибо за просмотр! Кроме того, я канадец. 😜
@@TyrellKnifeworks
понятно спасибо за пояснения
Thank you sir!
Thanks for watching, Zach!
Could you put multiple layers of copper or would it not work to well when You went to draw out the material?
Sure you could, I've done that on several builds. Thanks for watching.