haven’t watched yet, but i can’t help but feel like Rog is going to soar like that 6 month stretch of seedborn muse domaination because of this set. unreal support
U took my comment! Lol. I think that is like one of the only decks that can use it well. Every other deck is up to the pilot and if they use Oracle and blue non token creatures, and have enough mana to cast it at 3.
I like the direction of green having really strong competitve lands. Preferably untapped... But none the less still cool. Give green crazy good utility lands. Also some a+b win cons.
I think Flare of Denial will probably end up being highly sought after but for casual commander decks where you do expect to see far more creature based strategies and longer games. Now it's not going to be nearly as impactful as people might hope but it's one of those things casual players will really like to do: If the meta is long games and people either trying to board wipe or trying to defend against board wipes then Flare of Denial fits right in.
I do not have to much concerns with Flare of Duplication outside of Roger decks. There are plenty situations where you want to recast dockside from the grave or just get rid of your Ragavan because there is no chance that he gets through anymore.
Tayam seems to benefit a LOT from the counter synergy cards like evolution witness and even emperor of bones, not to mention the basking brood scale infinite combo w rosie cotton or even with necrosynthesis, also gets to play springheart nantuko
I do think Strix Serenade is getting a little bit underappreciated. It's off-meta right now in the sense that it's a control card, and given that the format is speeding up I'd say it won't make a big immediate impact, but it has been great in the testing I've had on it in Talion. Being able counter Wandering Archaic or Etali or other haymakers has been really nice to have. It's worse at helping you win than say Swan Song, but it's excellent at equalizing and can prevent a player from pulling too ahead.
It's a non versatile counter spell. It's the fact it's even being mentioned in a cedh environment is pretty silly. If you didn't run stern scolding then you also shouldn't run this card.
@@carlospadilla7247 i've actually come all the way around on it. it's the blue path of exile. other than counter spells it literally takes out everything scary in the format and denies ETBs unlike path. not being on it blue i think will be a mistake going forward.
@price69420 well it's not a blue path. If you want a blue path you'd play rescupt. If you're playing this card and expect it to preform like path then you don't understand the difference between counterspells and removal. The point is there are alrdy cards that do exactly what you think this card does and they don't see very much play. And there are other cards that do exactly what this card does and they also see very little play. #endrant
@@carlospadilla7247 first of all 2 vs 1 mana is like the difference between the moon and stars in cedh. this is so much better than resculpt in terms of how "live" it is I just don't know what to tell you. it plays so well and is only worse in the situation where the stax piece or combo piece is already on board, which is usually too late half the time anyway. strix prevents losing board states at a better rate than resculpt by quite a bit, just jam it in blue decks and see. plus it prevents etbs so it's also kinda like a stifle.
I put all the stats on screen at the start of that section, thought about doing stats for all of them like the quarterly update videos but with that being a relatively short segment for this one and the stats being from a shorter time I didn't focus too much on them. Maybe should have, just was excited to get this out ASAP if I'm being honest haha. All the update videos about the stats though will have those stats up on screen.
Will and Lucas (aka Baby BlueFarm) will probably run both Flare of duplication and flare of denial. Don't mind to sac Lucas for either a copy of a spell or counterspell something. Think Will and Lucas got some candy in this set, especially with the new nightmare enchantment which will bring a great loop with Will and Dockside for only 4 mana.
Stormdrake is better than gilded drake because you can't remove it in response to the trigger, like you can with gilded. The ability to use it as removal is also relevant, as you mentioned.
I think Flare will be a card to help Grixis Mean Girls before it'll help RogSi. I'm excited for Cormela especially. Also, Vexing Bauble is perfect in Taigam.
Love this podcast, a few random notes. If you mention and offhand deck archetype or card that's no longer super well known in the meta, I think that you both have a tendency to assume your audience is as knowledgeable as you guys are in the meta-game, whereas I had to look up what a bomberman combo was, which just makes the listening experience a little more clunky. Shuko also, I was pretty sure I knew that it was a zero cost equipment, but going over that synergy and why it works so well I think would make the podcast even better!
I'm running Flare of Denial in Talion now, I have quite a few blue creatures in my list. Malevolent Hermit, Ledger Shredder, Faerie Mastermind, Spellseeker, Aboleth Spawn, and I'm actually even testing Ghostly Pilferer now with Flare. Also Thassa and Talion herself of course. There's just this good feeling you have when you fully tap out to cast Talion with a Fierce Guardianship in hand, knowing you have free interaction. Having Flare in hand is also pretty good because you know you still have interaction. I'm sure there will be instances where I would sac Talion to stop a Dockside
It potentially can. It's one of a few reasons along with Six I just added Gamble to Rog/Thras on top of Wheel and Windfall now that I have multiple cards that can use the graveyard in such a powerful way.
Six honestly seems good enough even in something like stax elivere to rebuy important stax pieces if you don’t have greater aurumacy to protect semmi getting to dig 3 cards deep in green white is huge great virtue token target plus getting something that can get rid of all the lands that deck can draw is great getting to cast another worldly tutor just a cool card and one I’ll be testing in that specific list I mentioned
Not going to lie I’m a blue farm player and I slotted in static prison and power balance just to try them out. I got a few free casts off of power balance lol someone casted a sylvan library and I flipped into a dockside for free. Also the static prison helped lock out a drannith to get my tymna in. So I can see a home for them possibly in some tnk lists but like I said it has a lot to do with the pilot and what version of blue farm your wanting to run.
I've been chewing on Rog Thras intuition package, but haven't gotten great testing in yet.. Do you have a list going with it? It feels like you need breach to make the intuition piles work, but I really don't like including that card in temur since it's just not tutorable (outside of intuition and muddle if you're on it). And then you've got to add LED + brain freeze on top which just becomes an enormous package when it initially seemed pretty non-invasive.
I'm currently not running it and don't have a list on it yet. Playing an event this weekend, will decide from there if I feel like I want that package to come in. Gonna be a lot of testing to optimize the list.
@ClutchCrit www.moxfield.com/decks/8I9XP28_FE66MpP6G89e4g this is the list I'm bringing this weekend, barring some last minute changes. Got 6 test games with it last night, 4 wins a loss by someone who admitted they threw the game to another person by interacting with me too much and a game that went to time because the shop closed but I was in an extremely dominant position. No cards really stood out as underperforming, Seedborn, Con Sphinx, Six, and the two wheels did some work
I'm interested in seeing if some of those Hermit/Divining Witch kinda piles start to pop back up. Bowmasters is a pretty devastating part of the meta for those types of decks, but Six and Woodland can definitely help.
Any suggestions on good cEDH decks to get into? I currently run thrasios/jeska and it absolutely slaps, but I’m looking to get myself into a second option
Can't go wrong with some of the top ones like Sisay, TnK, Rog/Si, etc. Rog/Thras is my go-to right now. Some other ones I enjoy/look fun are Korvold, Ob Nix, Rog/Tevesh, Nadu, Dihada, honestly there's just so many. Head to edhtop16.com and just find one that stands out to you!
I do think there's some fun to be had with polymorph style decks that don't have just one broken hit but instead a few splashy big creatures. Can run things like show and tell and eureka to get cool stuff happening in casual. For cEDH yeah creatures are just too good to commit to not playing any.
It’s just staple Hate. Slows the game down and hits hard on multicolor commanders. Counter for fast mana, bow masters, dockside, and the one ring. It’s not that bad.
I feel like blue farm is inflated simply because so many people are using it... there's also an element of luck to it. Yea it's strong but I think the statistics are inflated for sure
Right now we kinda see the stats show that while it's popular it isn't necessarily the top performer relative to the amount of players. I think for this data set I would call Sisay the top deck.
You know I would like to give an opinion against most. While I agree there are noteworthy additions to the format such as Six (basically Breach that sticks around), Shifting woodlands, sisay staple necrodominance, or clear rogsi staple such as flare of duplication, even straight upgrades to niche decks, yet I find myself disagreeing with the idea that MH3 highlights a power spike of the format. I cannot find any player that isn't drooling their eyes off some of the cards in the set, but while possibilities are appealing, I cannot agree that convoluted possibilities are to be trusted. I get Chtonian nightmare, but it's not a card good by itself such as Six is for example. I get the new drake, and I trust you understand that Gilded Drake is not even himself part of the most purebreed brews included in top 16s. When we will look at this in retrospective, I think that the LotR set will be vastly more remembered.
Although I like MH3 because it's definitely going to make decks that are considered less performant, more impactful, and possibly fun to pilot. Strong decks are getting OPTIONS, weaker decks are getting straight UPGRADES.
I think the average card in the set is stronger than almost any set, but it doesn't have the extreme power outliers we saw in the Eldraine, Theros, Ikoria era that broke almost every format with a few cards or mechanics.
Vexing bauble will start off strong. Until you realize that all that free interaction you held back your opponents from casting will now be available to them to cast after sacrificing it and going for the win.
@@LemorasCards i'm sure i really don't think much is going to come out of this set but nadu also green has a lot of support i think that's the real sleeper
@@LemorasCards same i believe it has a chance definitely if Stella does so far as sets in a whole goes i think their the only two cedh viable well let's not leave out the kindly lord as well
Only Lightning Greaves stops you from targeting Nadu twice without another creature in play (because Greaves gives it shroud), other equipment like Shuko is fine to target Nadu even if it is already equipped.
(this is a super minor request but is it possible for you all to add pronouns to your vids/podcasts? it's a small thing but in this political climate anything helps!)
Why? What do pronouns have to do with a card game? Can we just have game commentary without having to virtue signal to a bunch of theybies who grew up without being told "no"?
Shifting woodland and Six definitely some nice help for green
My bored at work syndrome has just been cured. Thanks fellas
Not all heroes wear capes.
Vexing Bauble is likely finding a home in Tameshi. It becomes an infinite draw outlet after providing protection. Might be the best deck for it.
Static prison could also find a good home in tameshi. He's such a good underrated cedh commander
@@richardoglesby2997 hes definitely not underrated
But mh3 gives him a lot of help
haven’t watched yet, but i can’t help but feel like Rog is going to soar like that 6 month stretch of seedborn muse domaination because of this set. unreal support
Rograkh stonks to the moon 📈
Yuriko can use the new force of denial very well.
U took my comment! Lol. I think that is like one of the only decks that can use it well. Every other deck is up to the pilot and if they use Oracle and blue non token creatures, and have enough mana to cast it at 3.
Flare of Denial^^
But.... abjure
@@TheSpiritombsableye the differnce between free and 1 mana is alot and you can still hard cast it if you have no blue permanents
I like the direction of green having really strong competitve lands.
Preferably untapped...
But none the less still cool.
Give green crazy good utility lands.
Also some a+b win cons.
Love the discussion! This really helps people who can’t always pay super close attention to all the variables you guys listed. Fantastic job!
I think Flare of Denial will probably end up being highly sought after but for casual commander decks where you do expect to see far more creature based strategies and longer games. Now it's not going to be nearly as impactful as people might hope but it's one of those things casual players will really like to do: If the meta is long games and people either trying to board wipe or trying to defend against board wipes then Flare of Denial fits right in.
Love Six. Cool and unique design, seems really fun to play!
Probably my favorite card from the set!
Got it in my prerelease. Everytime I had it on board it would always slowly grind out my opponent.
I do not have to much concerns with Flare of Duplication outside of Roger decks. There are plenty situations where you want to recast dockside from the grave or just get rid of your Ragavan because there is no chance that he gets through anymore.
Tayam seems to benefit a LOT from the counter synergy cards like evolution witness and even emperor of bones, not to mention the basking brood scale infinite combo w rosie cotton or even with necrosynthesis, also gets to play springheart nantuko
And AND static prison and ALSO chthonian nightmare!
I do think Strix Serenade is getting a little bit underappreciated. It's off-meta right now in the sense that it's a control card, and given that the format is speeding up I'd say it won't make a big immediate impact, but it has been great in the testing I've had on it in Talion. Being able counter Wandering Archaic or Etali or other haymakers has been really nice to have. It's worse at helping you win than say Swan Song, but it's excellent at equalizing and can prevent a player from pulling too ahead.
That's about where I expect it to see play and makes sense in those lists.
It's a non versatile counter spell. It's the fact it's even being mentioned in a cedh environment is pretty silly. If you didn't run stern scolding then you also shouldn't run this card.
@@carlospadilla7247 i've actually come all the way around on it. it's the blue path of exile. other than counter spells it literally takes out everything scary in the format and denies ETBs unlike path. not being on it blue i think will be a mistake going forward.
@price69420 well it's not a blue path. If you want a blue path you'd play rescupt. If you're playing this card and expect it to preform like path then you don't understand the difference between counterspells and removal. The point is there are alrdy cards that do exactly what you think this card does and they don't see very much play. And there are other cards that do exactly what this card does and they also see very little play. #endrant
@@carlospadilla7247 first of all 2 vs 1 mana is like the difference between the moon and stars in cedh. this is so much better than resculpt in terms of how "live" it is I just don't know what to tell you. it plays so well and is only worse in the situation where the stax piece or combo piece is already on board, which is usually too late half the time anyway. strix prevents losing board states at a better rate than resculpt by quite a bit, just jam it in blue decks and see. plus it prevents etbs so it's also kinda like a stifle.
Flare of Denial is going straight into my borderline cEDH Azami list
Would it be possible to put the statistics for the decks mentioned on screen while y'all discuss them?
I put all the stats on screen at the start of that section, thought about doing stats for all of them like the quarterly update videos but with that being a relatively short segment for this one and the stats being from a shorter time I didn't focus too much on them. Maybe should have, just was excited to get this out ASAP if I'm being honest haha. All the update videos about the stats though will have those stats up on screen.
@@LemorasCards understandable, as always thanks for the content!
Six, Flare of Denial, Cthonian Nightmare, Volatile Stormdrake, Grist and Vexing Bauble are going straight into Muldrotha
Static prison can possibly have some flicker loops too, as this is basically a 1 mana Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward like effect
Will and Lucas (aka Baby BlueFarm) will probably run both Flare of duplication and flare of denial. Don't mind to sac Lucas for either a copy of a spell or counterspell something.
Think Will and Lucas got some candy in this set, especially with the new nightmare enchantment which will bring a great loop with Will and Dockside for only 4 mana.
Yeah they definitely ate pretty good, certainly got more new tools than TnK.
Well its like you said...its gonna be the Summer of Gaddock! ❤❤❤
Stormdrake is better than gilded drake because you can't remove it in response to the trigger, like you can with gilded. The ability to use it as removal is also relevant, as you mentioned.
I like shuko in Nadu because I can add cephalid ilusionist and thassa oracle line to also work with it
Thoracle is a dead card in nadu.
Solid analysis, guys. Good work.
Appreciate it!
I think Flare will be a card to help Grixis Mean Girls before it'll help RogSi. I'm excited for Cormela especially.
Also, Vexing Bauble is perfect in Taigam.
That's a lot of mana to throw them girls away!
@@LemorasCardsThat's true. I have thoughts about how and why it could work, but I'll get some reps in before making any changes and big claims.
Love this podcast, a few random notes. If you mention and offhand deck archetype or card that's no longer super well known in the meta, I think that you both have a tendency to assume your audience is as knowledgeable as you guys are in the meta-game, whereas I had to look up what a bomberman combo was, which just makes the listening experience a little more clunky. Shuko also, I was pretty sure I knew that it was a zero cost equipment, but going over that synergy and why it works so well I think would make the podcast even better!
I'm running Flare of Denial in Talion now, I have quite a few blue creatures in my list. Malevolent Hermit, Ledger Shredder, Faerie Mastermind, Spellseeker, Aboleth Spawn, and I'm actually even testing Ghostly Pilferer now with Flare. Also Thassa and Talion herself of course. There's just this good feeling you have when you fully tap out to cast Talion with a Fierce Guardianship in hand, knowing you have free interaction. Having Flare in hand is also pretty good because you know you still have interaction. I'm sure there will be instances where I would sac Talion to stop a Dockside
In what situation would you be in the position to sacrifice thoracle to cast flare of denial?
Love the shoutout to Michael btw
He's a real one.
Six is also nice in underworld breech decks. If you get Six down early he mills you a lot for later use with breech
Magda is lowkey the best deck in the format. It’s been absolutely killing it.
Add another RogThras Top 16 for me at King’s Court 😉
39:35 does shifting woodland just make gamble a better vamp tutor? 🤔 Who cares if it ends up in the bin?
It potentially can. It's one of a few reasons along with Six I just added Gamble to Rog/Thras on top of Wheel and Windfall now that I have multiple cards that can use the graveyard in such a powerful way.
I need all these red blue white cards in my American energy deck
Six honestly seems good enough even in something like stax elivere to rebuy important stax pieces if you don’t have greater aurumacy to protect semmi getting to dig 3 cards deep in green white is huge great virtue token target plus getting something that can get rid of all the lands that deck can draw is great getting to cast another worldly tutor just a cool card and one I’ll be testing in that specific list I mentioned
See you in Atlanta!
You bet!
Where can I find the Korvold list mentioned?
www.moxfield.com/decks/MNRi-mtvb02tMF3KqmF60g Eric's current list if that's what you mean.
Not going to lie I’m a blue farm player and I slotted in static prison and power balance just to try them out. I got a few free casts off of power balance lol someone casted a sylvan library and I flipped into a dockside for free. Also the static prison helped lock out a drannith to get my tymna in. So I can see a home for them possibly in some tnk lists but like I said it has a lot to do with the pilot and what version of blue farm your wanting to run.
I've been chewing on Rog Thras intuition package, but haven't gotten great testing in yet.. Do you have a list going with it? It feels like you need breach to make the intuition piles work, but I really don't like including that card in temur since it's just not tutorable (outside of intuition and muddle if you're on it). And then you've got to add LED + brain freeze on top which just becomes an enormous package when it initially seemed pretty non-invasive.
I'm currently not running it and don't have a list on it yet. Playing an event this weekend, will decide from there if I feel like I want that package to come in. Gonna be a lot of testing to optimize the list.
@@LemorasCards Yea I'm might just be starting with Shifting woodland and going from there this weekend
@ClutchCrit www.moxfield.com/decks/8I9XP28_FE66MpP6G89e4g this is the list I'm bringing this weekend, barring some last minute changes. Got 6 test games with it last night, 4 wins a loss by someone who admitted they threw the game to another person by interacting with me too much and a game that went to time because the shop closed but I was in an extremely dominant position. No cards really stood out as underperforming, Seedborn, Con Sphinx, Six, and the two wheels did some work
Six makes Hermit Druid super playable... 3 mana pseudo peer?
I'm interested in seeing if some of those Hermit/Divining Witch kinda piles start to pop back up. Bowmasters is a pretty devastating part of the meta for those types of decks, but Six and Woodland can definitely help.
Has anyone mentioned the eldarazi combo piece, glaring fleshraker?
Vexing bauble also stops lions eye and rog lol
It’s always been correct to counter the entomb effects. There are far fewer of them..
I'm here to bow to my Lord and Savior Magda 🙏
Can't Cthonian Nightmare work solo with Dockside for infinite treasures and only need to net 3? Since sacrifice is a cost?
Sadly it can not
Im exited to Play flare of denial in yuriko
Seems like a perfect fit.
Any suggestions on good cEDH decks to get into? I currently run thrasios/jeska and it absolutely slaps, but I’m looking to get myself into a second option
Can't go wrong with some of the top ones like Sisay, TnK, Rog/Si, etc. Rog/Thras is my go-to right now. Some other ones I enjoy/look fun are Korvold, Ob Nix, Rog/Tevesh, Nadu, Dihada, honestly there's just so many.
Head to edhtop16.com and just find one that stands out to you!
@@LemorasCards awesome thank you so much! Y’all absolutely rock
I really love the polymorph version of rog thras, but its too weak for cEDH and too strong for casual/highpower its so sad 😢
I do think there's some fun to be had with polymorph style decks that don't have just one broken hit but instead a few splashy big creatures. Can run things like show and tell and eureka to get cool stuff happening in casual. For cEDH yeah creatures are just too good to commit to not playing any.
Got a link to that rog thrass deck
www.moxfield.com/decks/8I9XP28_FE66MpP6G89e4g this is my post mh3 test one. It's changing around a lot at the moment
It’s just staple
Hate. Slows the game down and hits hard on multicolor commanders. Counter for fast mana, bow masters, dockside, and the one ring.
It’s not that bad.
Powerbalance not a thing in cEDH?
Gonna be talking that one in the next episode.
I feel like blue farm is inflated simply because so many people are using it... there's also an element of luck to it. Yea it's strong but I think the statistics are inflated for sure
Right now we kinda see the stats show that while it's popular it isn't necessarily the top performer relative to the amount of players. I think for this data set I would call Sisay the top deck.
AZAMI MENTIONED!!!!!
Rog Thrasios is eating good.
you love to see it!
You know I would like to give an opinion against most. While I agree there are noteworthy additions to the format such as Six (basically Breach that sticks around), Shifting woodlands, sisay staple necrodominance, or clear rogsi staple such as flare of duplication, even straight upgrades to niche decks, yet I find myself disagreeing with the idea that MH3 highlights a power spike of the format. I cannot find any player that isn't drooling their eyes off some of the cards in the set, but while possibilities are appealing, I cannot agree that convoluted possibilities are to be trusted. I get Chtonian nightmare, but it's not a card good by itself such as Six is for example. I get the new drake, and I trust you understand that Gilded Drake is not even himself part of the most purebreed brews included in top 16s.
When we will look at this in retrospective, I think that the LotR set will be vastly more remembered.
Although I like MH3 because it's definitely going to make decks that are considered less performant, more impactful, and possibly fun to pilot.
Strong decks are getting OPTIONS, weaker decks are getting straight UPGRADES.
I think the average card in the set is stronger than almost any set, but it doesn't have the extreme power outliers we saw in the Eldraine, Theros, Ikoria era that broke almost every format with a few cards or mechanics.
@@LemorasCards agree. We are feeling like scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything more efficient than what already we have around, don't we?
great vid
Thank ya!
Vexing bauble will start off strong. Until you realize that all that free interaction you held back your opponents from casting will now be available to them to cast after sacrificing it and going for the win.
Play better?
Is this a MH3 massive impact on Korevold? -_-
i'm a TnK player kinda of sad the best set didn't give us anything hahahah but it dose have me think of trying a new brew
Don't worry. I'm sure TnK is still gonna be good, lol.
@@LemorasCards i'm sure i really don't think much is going to come out of this set but nadu also green has a lot of support i think that's the real sleeper
@@jamallynch1218 I'm excited to see how that list ends up developing
@@LemorasCards same i believe it has a chance definitely if Stella does so far as sets in a whole goes i think their the only two cedh viable well let's not leave out the kindly lord as well
So true
you can't eqip nadu twice without a second creature
Triggers twice each turn and applies to Nadu itself, what am I missing?
Only Lightning Greaves stops you from targeting Nadu twice without another creature in play (because Greaves gives it shroud), other equipment like Shuko is fine to target Nadu even if it is already equipped.
(this is a super minor request but is it possible for you all to add pronouns to your vids/podcasts? it's a small thing but in this political climate anything helps!)
this isn't in the newest episode but will be in episodes going forward!
Why? What do pronouns have to do with a card game? Can we just have game commentary without having to virtue signal to a bunch of theybies who grew up without being told "no"?
Unsub
@@carlospadilla7247 🤡