The Two Cards RUINING Modern Horizons 3
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
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So, I built an optimized Nadu deck and I brought it to a Gathering. Nobody wanted to play against Nadu except for the one other player who also had Nadu. I ended up dueling with him while everyone else played a normal game of Commander. We played 5 games in an hour, with no game going longer than turn 5. Games were over once one of us triggered Nadu 10+ times in a turn. Honestly, it felt like we were playing Legacy instead of Commander.
Noice
I am building Nadu Equipment.
Suiting up the bird and a bunch of other guys to attack.
No Shuko.
@@DAsradaGreaves?
@@brendans1983 Swiftfoot Boots.
Shroud prevents me from adding more equipment.
I am a simple man if sb pulls out nadu i pull out my cedh etali deck xd
the fact that oko and uro have the exact same casting cost is pretty ironic.
as do Risen Reef and Nadu
"Best" part is that if you flicker Nadu all creatures on the board get their ability reset.
When you post 7 minutes into watching the video.
Same with Muldrotha. Thats not an argument
@@TheFallenA He wasn't arguing anything?
It will be fine, it's not that these colors have easy access to flickering.
Oh wait...
That intro 😅😅
Sounded like Critical made a cameo lol.
if they cant reprint the reserve list, the only way to sell sets is to crank it up baby
Eventually they will reprint the reserve list
@@honestabe411 yeah most cards are falling in price too. Like Gaea's cradle is now around 680 when it was over a thousand a few years ago.
@@jaydengero9194 All they need to do is functionally print a better version of Gaeas Cradle and it'll be worth literally nothing outside of chuds thinking buying a piece of cardboard for a few hundred bucks is a "strong financial decision"
@@jaydengero9194 bubble bursting
Pretty sure it's pronounced "RHYTHING" Chrysalis. The operative word is "writhe" (rhymes with tithe) or to make twisting movements with the body.
It absolutely is
@@kamakazi339 (I was trying to be polite)
It's Hasbro's legacy. Can't wait for them to start printing reserve list and this game just takes off
So the 1 colorless was why Kinnan made it through. Got it 😂😂
Well there promo video was "we needed to promote power creep and make busted cards that's what mh3 needed to be"
I got a copy of Nadu in my Ivy gleeful spell thief deck, I don’t run shuko or lightning Greaves in it. Only auras so far I havn’t been able to use it but hopefully soon! 🤞
Man I remember a day when Modern was the format you wanted to play
It was a format you could use cards of old and cleverly come up with your own tech and strategies, as opposed to a forced supplemental format that warps the game around it for Hasbro sales
Yup horizons rotate your format and should be shunned. Time for the community to come up with a new format for wizards to appropriate
If Leovold is banned, Nadu should be banned. They both provide negative interaction with removal, and Nadu provides an engine that ends games insanely fast and linear with little chance for interaction.
Leovold locked you out of the game. Nadu just ends the game. In a CEDH environment I get it, but it’s too easy to make this insane on accident.
What? Leovold is 10x worse than Nadu. Leovold + 1 other card wins the game. Nadu is a value engine that can "easily" go beserk. They are very different things. Also, you can build Nadu to be fair. You cannot build leovold to be fair.
That’s so cope, he may need a ban but he’s in no way as oppressive as Leovold.
@@ohyea456 and @tspang42 Nadu doesn’t have the oppression of Leovold, but it’s traded it away for an improved version of the other part that makes him broken, and turned it from never allowing people to trade fairly with any of your creatures with removal into a combo engine that wins that game with very little effort.
It is taking part of Leovold and part of Orvar and combining them into something that is new, but extremely out of balance.
It will likely not be banned for all of the same reasons that Leovold was, because the wheel hand destruction has been pretty clearly flagged as a pain point by the rules committee, but the equivalency still holds.
There is an argument to be made it’s somewhere between the reasoning for Golos and Leovold, I will admit that
@@charredhusk I have to disagree. Nadu's combo is fragile until it goes off. Nadu's ability to "pay for his own commander tax" is not guaranteed like golos. However, that's not the main reason golos is banned. Golos is banned because his entire kit makeS the gameplay of every golos deck the same thing and the land part makes it resilient. As in, if you stop golos on a turn, he's going to do the same thing again next turn because it's all on his card. You cast him, get a land, use his ability until you're out of mana. Nadu is not this. While he combos for lands in a similar manner, he does not have a win condition stapled into him like leovold or golos. He also requires at least 2 other cards to go crazy. Golos himself is all he needs and leovold does require one extra card to seal the game but has text that roadblocks and forces your opponents to already have the answer because they can't draw extra cards to find one. Nadu is neither of those cards. He is purely a value engine combo piece and has zero protection. To be fair, the only reason we are talking about him is because he's 3 mana. Put the same ability on a 5-6 mana card and he would be "fine." Possibly not even cedh viable at that point, but *maybe* he still would as you see cards like Kraum get played.
Somedays i wonder what modern would look like without the MH sets...
To tell you the truth, modern died when War of the Spark was released. This is why I play modern with one of my friends.
It would be way worse.
Shit, Magic is so power crept its almost boring, almost, one more year and this game will be unplayable in any format! #savemymagic
As someone who has played magic for 20 years... people always say that. Magic is fine.
Pick your Poison makes them sac Nadu or Shuko without targeting it. We need a 1-mana answer to Nadu in each color besides Green.
Just target it. They gain 1 card... who cares. There are plenty of cards that stop Nadu.
@@ohyea456 You realize they can draw into a response with that draw.
@@MultiKbarry Yes, I do. You realize that is not guaranteed to happen, right?
@@ohyea456 That's... not the gotcha moment you seem to hope it is.
@@Zevox144 Okay. Then don't kill him and keep crying about Nadu. You do you, booboo.
You're gotdamn right we brawl players refuse to play against that thing
You act like brawl players don't immediately remove commanders when they come out
@@jeffreystewart6803Commander players on arena don’t run enough removal yet.
No one plays brawl lmao
@@davidsantiago7808 I play brawl almost exclusively. Occasionally I'll play historic or standard.
@@jeffreystewart6803 it's hilarious when people don't read and they waste removal on my Edgar charmed groom and I put it back as an enchantment. Or king of the oathbreakers and it phases out.
My Atraxa Grand Unifier deck usually tutors Sheoldred the Apocalypse when someone gets funny
Nadu: about that.
I will now forever hear Nahhhh Du any time someone says this cards name.
I'm BLUE DABADIE DABADOO ! 🪼
here's the thing though, chrysalis is only a problem in Limited and sees like no play in constructed, do i don't think it's ban-worthy. Nadu, on the other hand...
I mean can’t black just thoughtseize nadu turn one and surgically extracted it the same turn one black and 2 life to remove all nadus from play
Ikr there are answers
Have you ever played against Splinter Twin? The issue is the rest of the deck is all good cards.
Answers existing doesn't justify whether or not a card should be banned. We can get Nadu out turn 2 and win with it. If we go first and you brick we are likely to win the game.
If it gets banned it gets banned. I’m just saying till then what are some answers we could come up to try and lock it down?
@@regularjmg I asked ai and it said mill and extractions are the best Strat.
Writhing Chrysalis I honestly believe is one of the single best cards in limited for this set. It scales infinitely, or really as much as you need to win, and there isn’t enough ways to reasonably handle the second one. It being a common bomb is such an issue when drafting it’s absurd because if someone gets their hands on two of them and some form of protection you’re never getting past them. Not an overreaction, a genuine testament to how lethal this card is in MH3 limited.
you know its bad when the card is already a problem when the initial builds are not the most optimized builds yet. when these decks get more refined and optimized, we will eventually reach the point of no return.
Ban it. I need more cards for the banned cube.
Been loving Nadu in CEDH. Compared to decks like blue farm or other grixis shells it’s so much more fun to pilot. It feels like playing a casual deck that has no right to be in a CEDH pod. I hope casual players can be sensible with Nadu so that it doesn’t get banned and we can keep it in CEDH.
It doesn't really fit the cold of getting banned as per the RC's rationale. They ban things that make the game "less fun." Meaning they generally stop your opponents from playing magic. There are a couple of exceptions, but that's their general rule. Nadu doesn't stop your opponent in any way, other than triggering once if you target to kill him. I don't think he's strong enough to ban in commander. MAYBE strong enough to be "hated out" like Urza or Kinnan.
to be honest, if the commander banlists made ANY sense at all, Nadu would be long gone already.... haha
@@seilaoquemvc2 Why is that?
@@ohyea456 have you played Brawl in arena in the past week?
just play a couple and imagine what will happen once you get the full pack of vintage cards there.
@@seilaoquemvc2 Sure, ban him in brawl (I didn't know he was legal there). Brawl sucks as a format anyways. You don't have nearly as many tools and it's 1v1. However, in commander there's a huge difference when you have 3 opponents. There are plenty of kill on sight commanders, he just gets thrown on the pile.
And even if the land is a tap land, Spelunking is a thing
Or amulet of vigor. There’s plenty of ways to break it open
“All of the testing”…oh my sweet summer child
with Nadu, the final quotation mark should have been after "...Otherwise, put it into your hand" This ability only triggers twice each turn.
This way, not each creature gets the triggering twice part of the ability.
That doesn't solve your problem, though, since it's granting the triggered ability to each creature. If Nadu's static ability was just a simple trigger, looking for "whenever a creature you control is targeted by a spell or ability," it would still be playable, possibly still pushed, even, but it wouldn't be such unholy ban bait.
@@andrewamann2821 it would solve the problem if the "This ability triggers only twice each turn" isnt inside the quotation marks though?
well, you know what I mean, right? How would you word it? On the other hand, I dunno if it really is a good card then. You'll have to blink it to reset the "twice a turn"-part.
@@Quiron1985 the inherent problem is that Nadu, itself isn't generating the trigger, it's granting a triggered ability, by way of having a static ability. To put it another way, Nadu acts like the Sliver creature type, without the hangup about creature types.
If the trigger was native to Nadu, itself, it could count itself properly. Since each creature has its own instance of the ability, and each instance counts itself when checking for triggers, you can either blink Nadu to reset it, or blink your other creatures to reset just their own instance, and get more ETB triggers. Think Felidar Guardian or Deadeye Navigator, and you're not far off for the sheer level of bullshit this causes.
As stated, this gets fixed by hacking the "creatures you control get..." clause, and replace it with a "whenever a creature you control..." triggered ability. Same sequence, but it can properly count how many times you've triggered it.
@@andrewamann2821 yes, i totally get it.
They actually printed a couple of interesting commanders in the simic precon. Omo literally costs 3 mana, and generates value in obscure ways that you have to build around. I highly doubt with how fast oko and uro were broken, often before the set hit shelves, that WoTC has literally no excuse. They knew Nadu was strong. We just have to live with them printing cards solely to sell sets.
How do you even ban a card in limited?
Doesn’t affect limited
This set is a bonanza for the MTG falling knife catchers, we saw $0.25 and $0.50 (foil) buried alive over the weekend and it was glorious.
Finally get a chance to stock up. (Only have mismatched oddesey and weatherlight ones.).
Received one pack of Modern Horizons III for Father's Day - my first so far. The big pull? Nadu, of course...
Why would they bother banning primeval titan in commander if they're going to take the "social pressure" approach with everything else? Why wouldn't that social pressure be enough for primeval titan?
what testing ? its not play tested they are coming out far to fast too test anything but maybe the limited format.
Even “fair” nadu is broken nadu.
Not gonna go infinite and just throw in some untappers that can either target each other or the few that can target themselves and you are drawing 6+ cards on opponents turns….
This is why my idea of the Alchemy format would help. My interation of Alchemy is that they release a set first on Arena. They see how these cards preform, and if it becomes too broken or too busted, they can change how the card works, by either adding in an errata or change a mechanic entirely, then after a couple months of testing, actually print the cards to be distributed.
To me it’s silly that the same reason that they ban Primeval titan applies to Dockside (according to G.V everyone in green would be running it), but dockside is cool. Similar to Nadu I can see Golos being on the same level, but Nadu isn’t banned. Can we either make up our mind on allowing all cards of the same potency to be legal or all banned (preferably legal).
I think the ban list is junk. Let people play what they want and their play groups will oust certain cards themselves. Everyones playgroup has their own personal "ban list" that is just "ugh i hate playing against that card." I've played a ton of no ban list games and they are just as fun as casual games... the ban list is dumb.
How many years of power creep until we can use them? 2? Or 30 life time.
The crazy thing is, I wish they were just willing to errata, because this could be balanced by making it card draw and subject to all the checks on card draw. Smh
I think the easiest errata would be to have it trigger whenever a creature you control becomes a target, rather than granting the ability to others. That way the twice a turn restriction actually means something.
I’m so surprised the land doesn’t come in tapped. Feels like it was meant to say that but they forgot to type it out
@@makeout_hill I think that was an intentional move. Many pushed simic ramp cards put lands into play untapped, for example Growth Spiral, Uro, and Chulane.
@@makeout_hill It wasn't. The original card this text is from is called "Coiling Oracle." Since then other cards have stolen that ability. IE Growth Spiral and Nadu.
I thinka Nadu ban is likely, but I expect it's more likely shuko gets banned instead. In modern.
In commander, I'm not sure anything will happen.
Nadu is missing this text...
"Creatures you control cannot be equipped "
Who else was nodding along until he mispronounced "Writhing" as "Rith-Ing" when it's "Rhy-Thing". I do agree though we know 1 colorless, blue and green on any Legend is always going to create ripples by itself but it being on a literal Simic Value Engine IN a Commander? A bit much. Though my solution for it in Brawl anyway is just to make it 1/1 frog with no abilities or a 1/1 citizen with no abilities. As for Modern I say: we have forty varieties of counter spells and even a way to steal/counter it with the added benefit of the satisfaction of flipping a coin while saying "heads I win, tails you lose".
It's funny what Magic does to your ability to pronounce things. You get so used to made-up fantasy names that you just forget that English words exist …
I'm a RUclipsr, the opposite of an English major
@@jyrinx Oh it's not just Magic. Happened to me for years in Yugioh and other things. Hell especially in books. My ex still pronounces things as they are written and I end up cringing and having to either stomach it or go into spiel on how English is not a language so much as reanimated corpse made from several dead ones. ^_^;
@@JakeandJoelareMagic I want to say I don't get that but I know several streamers so yeah sadly that does seem to be a thing. Between buzzwords, new slang and having to read things on a script I imagine it's a constant assault on the tongue and brain at once. I'm lucky that I'm just a writer who already loved Douglas Adams and was raised by a woman who had me speak at college level by high school so nobody in whole of the South knows what the hell I'm saying XD Except when I 'activate southern mode'.
@@JakeandJoelareMagic Heh it's definitely not just RUclipsrs, though. For some reason I still remember exactly how my friend Max from middle school reacted when I pronounced “allay” as “alley.” Also I thought “purgatory” had a soft G
Nadu enabled me to windmill slam dunk 5+ MV Eldrazi with regularity in pre-release. Can confirm it's hella busted.
Oh you're trying to bestow my Nadu with Trickster's Elk!? OH NAAAA-DUU, cuz I also got Sylvan Safekeeper to TARGET, sac a land give the DU shroud, and probably drop another untapped land at instant speed baby!
You don't need 2 creatures for Shuko, just Lightning Greaves because of Shroud.
You do because you can't "unequip" without another creature.
It just seems like the card design for magic has stagnated as of late. We just keep seeing the same midrange bs we've seen before. And it isn't getting any better.
I don’t like playgroup rules. The committee should ban if a card is problematic. Now as for Nadu in commander I think it is fine as there are way to many combos as it is, and players should play more interaction anyway
What interaction? grave pact? have you vsed a Nadu deck yourself before making this comment?
@@Jack-in-the-Mox You can kill it with any direct kill spell. What are you on about? Not to mention plenty of answers like "cannot activate artifact" pieces.
so your gonna give them the nadu triggers yourself and play null rod vs the dork deck ahah
the way nadu monopolizes games actions reminds of prophet of kruphix aswell as being leovold esc removing from the board and golos the way it gets you lands that keep paying for tax its totally ban worthy.
nadu decks play collector ouphe themselves and just march of swirling mists or chain or vapor it once they have a opportunity to draw some cards. You are just helping them with spot removal and stony silences.
"Only twice" is weird, i dont think we have another ability that triggers only twice each turn. Could probably nerf it by just making it once per turn.
Oh now I see the problem with who designed Oko
And not like any lands etc could get you more creatures oh wait field of the dead! Lol😂😂😂
Khalni garden?
You forgot that Risen Reef is also 1 green, 1 blue, and 1 other and is a busted card in its own right, enabling busted 4c elemental decks even without Omnath.
that intro was amazing
[Lowko chokes on a biscuit] I move away from the mic to breath in.
My Marvel Modern Horizons prediction:
Iron Man
1RU
Affinity for Artifacts
Non-Creature Artifact spells in your hand have affinity for artifacts
Whenevery you cast an artifact spell, deal 1 damage to target opponent
Wow.... poppa smurf went bald there.
Writhing chrysalis isn't the problem. The problem is the eldrazi shell in those colors specifically, and then writhing chrysalis being a powerful common that works exceptionally in that shell. I think it should have been at uncommon, I do think it's that good. But I think the set itself had a hard time balancing itself. We needed more hard removal options for the big eldrazi, and maybe better top ends for the non-eldrazi archetypes.
I just noticed, nadu has 4 toughness...
bolts don't work and at 3 mana fatal push needs revolt to function...
Nadu lost to my board wipe tribal deck so badly, Judith Carnage made my friends rethink nadu being a problem when I hit them all for 144 dmg with a board wipe
I really enjoyed MH3 Sealed, but drafts were a total roller-coaster in playability. You absolutely have to find an open lane for a synergy and dedicate yourself to it, hoping to get at least a bomb or two in the process of drafting. If you veer off even a little, the format seems to be completely unforgiving.
If I see Nadu in brawl I literally just concede
Nadu is so much better than Voja, and Voja is cracked 🤣🤣 Nadu also is a great answer to Voja, because you end up with so much mana you either just win or you are capable of targeting the Voja through the ward, which is the problem every other deck has against Voja
writhing is pronounced with a hard i,.. not a soft i,.. the same type of i in the word 'write' , example ' the snakes were writhing across the floor' or 'he was writhing in pain after getting stabbed',...also i find the reach protection excuse to be sad, red need more creature removal not blockers, in the last ten years red has become so much less aggressive than it used to be.
Nadu isn't the issue. Urza's saga is.
They use horizons and universes beyond sets to rotate non-rotatong formats so they make money.
This is not a conspiracy, its the business plan now.
How is this not obvious? It is clearly by design and has worked for years now
A boom box is not a TOOOOYYYYYY!
Soooo does Nadu make Armageddon relevant?
They’d probably ban the bird because there are plenty of 0 equip cost equipments
There's 3 in total, wouldn't call that 'Plenty'
It's enough and it's not hard to tutor any of them but it's also not hard to vandalblast Shuko or Lightning greaves and stop the deck cold.
But it's easier to cry 'Ban!' instead of changing anything at all from current decks and interaction people run.
@@dimitriid Exactly. Nadu isn't a problem at all... He *might* be too strong for casual play, but there are plenty of commanders that have that label already. Urza and Kinnan just being off the top of my head.
@@dimitriid I don’t think “add more removal” is the correct approach.
I mean Emerkul got banned and she’s really easy to remove if you build for it.
But that’s the issue, if you specifically have to build to counter one specific card in the format, then yes that card needs to be banned
power creep answer. Eventually they should create a new format. That format starts with a standard set and keeps growing with standard. They can use that format as a way to dumb down standard and stop the power creep train. Standard cards likely wont be as complex anymore so they likely wont be sought after by eternal formats, but it could be an inexpensive way for eternal format players to hop into fnm again. I think it would work as long as they printed cards that can minorly add to existing archetypes without the need to bust open any formats. This may not be super exciting, but it may bring more sales to local shops and it could prevent an inevitable collapse that the power creep train builds into. Long term, this is a win.
So...start over again? No more formats other than standard? Bold... it would somewhat stop the reserved list discussion because the reserve list no longer exist. There is a lore reason too. Jace and Vraska are trying to invoke a grand reset.
@danielbretado7660 it's not getting rid of other formats. Just starting a new format. That new format would stay low power low complexity for a long time. If wizards wanted to print high power cards, they could print them directly into pioneer or something
I think it is far too early to be talking bans as the meta is very skewed towards new brews post mh3's release, personally I think Nadu probably won't be banned as there are lots of cards that read "kill flying creature" "deal 4 damage" "exile target creature" "Opponent sacrifices target flyer" I think if they do ban anything they ban shuko but even then I think it depends on just how bad it is. Personally I think Grief is much more offensive in the modern format than Nadu is ever likely to be.
I think it needs another week at least, the set has barely cleared the first one. I will say that the sheer amount of people talking about a Nadu ban doesn't make me optimistic for it lasting much longer than that
Nadu is ok. Is strong but not unstoppable. It needs multiple pieces to work. You can compare Nadu to Amalia in pioneer. Both decks need multiple pieces to work and the meta is still developing.
Most of the complains in this section probably come from players that dont play alot of competitive or play low tier modern decks.
Why not run hedron crab and lotus cobra? Make them mill their deck out??
Intro is CLASSIC!! 😂🤣😂
They keep printing simic landlords for us to deal with
the answer is pretty simple modern horizons was a commander set, there was no thought put into cards effects on modern, after all nobody plays modern, its not a real format anymore and its not a format that makes wizards money, commander is.
Am I the only one not seeing the banworthy Nadu results? Yes, the card is very strong and is a very nice deck, but its not showcasing the results I expect from how crazy everyone is hyping it up to be.
Play pattern bad
Nah, they are doomers. Nadu is perfectly fine. Maybe he's too strong for casual play but there are plenty of commanders that are "hated" on for the same reasoning, IE Urza and kinnan.
Pretty sure shuko was around $1 before mh3. People don't want to watch a game of solitaire.
I mean isn’t just punishing player who doesnt play any removal spells?
Nadu is the new Paradox Engine
The fact that they ran “only twice each turn” through testing and still let it thru is insane to me. I don’t really trust them to catch this stuff at all if they didn’t figure this out
4:21 actually made me giggle
I mean who wants to sit down on a commander table and play against Nadu?
people are treating nadu like it’s the boogie man
I miss hidden reach
Sick intro. Watchman is OP. Subbed 😎🔥
All I'm hearing is that Risen Reef is back. Am I wrong?
Umbra mantle on deck waiting for Shuko to get banned.
Nadu might be ban or maybe not honestly. I'll just play my best deck and hate on it if someone brings it to the table.
will this card warp draft experience? well considering i cant find a draft fucking anywhere within a 20 mile radius cause no one wants to draft anymore cause of the shit packs and the constant shoving out of product...yeah its not ruining any drafts cause there is no draft anymore.
If beanstalk got banned, nadu is so gone!
Writhing has a hard "I" in it dude - like wr-eye-thing
Does torpor orb work?
Torpor orb only cares about ETB
@@MagicManAleister there is an artifact that shuts down artifacts. I have forgotten it
@@Dannymiles1987 null rod.
The Chrysalis seems like a nothingburger. Oh no the super expensive limited format is not quite balanced! There are so many warped limited environments, one more for the pile.
In less than 7 weeks is the Bloomburow release and nobody will care anymore. That is if public interest even survives the Assassin Creed stuff in between. Spoiler start tomorrow btw.
Bant Blink with Nadu and Risen Reef is really gonna bring up my Solitaire play time 😅😅😅
Rly well made video 😤
Surprised you didn’t talk about the ham sandwich boy that is basking broodscale.
Love that nobody even cares about the 1 mana planeswalker drawing half your deck because a combo value deck exists (not even definitive win on the spot). Magic players moaning is truly not a hollow stereotype.
If the card isn't welcome in casual, then it will just go to CEDH where it belongs. Or are people having issues with RogSi in their casual pods?
Also "Writhing" is pronounced like Scry(thing), not like Rith(ing).
hahahah that reach song 😂😂😂
Slow clap for the intro 👏🫡
Gack summer 2: Nadu boogaloo
Why is nobody talking about Leather Armor from Adventures in the Forgotten Realms?
Also, ppl. need to stop banning and whining. Nature finds a way. Adapt, and play more removal.
leather armor only lets you activate it once per turn
if they don't ban nadu they need to unban golos
Golos is banned for different reasoning. Although, I would agree with you that Golos being banned is silly.