Mormon Makes Mormon Question Faith
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- This had to be one of the most interesting conversations I have ever participated in. What starts out as a conversation with an angry young Mormon, turns into a passionate conversation between two Mormons who start to argue with one another.
You can see how the young man's attitude and inconsistencies is how a Mormon Makes Mormon Question Faith. This was truly unbelievable. Pray for both of these individuals.
Most of what this guy says is just so... odd. (And seems very pompous.) Like, "Hi yeah, I'm a Christian and sort of a Mormon, but I don't believe in Mormon doctrine. Oh, I am going to argue why Christian doctrine is wrong and why I reject it." He's just a vegan who loves meat.
I think in God's providence, this whole thing really was for her, not him. Good for her for standing her ground and for you being such a good listener, Andrew.
Thank you for watching this Sister! This blesses me, all glory to God!
Melissa , are you Calvinism Christian like Apologia? I think Calvinism is only a few steps out of delusion from Mormonism. I'm just curious. I just favor non-denominational Christians, who are interested in maybe learning like the Hebrew words and their meanings to better understand scriptures--but aren't obsessed with adhering to one man's--or multiple men's--interpretation of scripture. Like how a certain Hebrew word means "Thou Mayest" but is often translated as 'thou shalt' or just stuff like that.
Oh hey hey Melissa! I love your videos. I’ve learned a lot from you. Thank you!
@@wellsaidgoodheadfred9843 I've been very clear that I'm not a Calvinist. I've been friends with Jerry and Andrew for many years. (As well as many Charismatics and other Reformed peeps.)
Absolutely!
That was a moment for her!
Jack was just the loud trumpet that got her attention. Praying she gets to see the freedom and guilt-free love of Jesus.
Enjoyed Andrew's clear presentation of the Biblical Gospel to Jack and the young lady. His questioning them at the appropriate time in the conversation is very effective. Praying that both of them will be receptive to the Biblical Gospel.
All glory to God. Praying for them.
She was figuring things out like a champ! True revelation was given to her to wake up and get out of the false LDS religion!
This girl that walked up is so awesome. I hope and pray she keeps looking into the true Gospel. She obviously understands Mormonism better than the other guy.
Great conversation.
The new age Mormon is showing exactly what it takes to defend the Mormon church. It’s called mental gymnastics. I tried it for years. Heart,MIND, soul and strength. You can not stay In Mormon religion once you exercise you MIND and that is very clear that’s what happening to the sweet lady in the video. God is pursing Her. HE will save her soul. Praise God for your continued efforts in preaching the Good News.
So true!! The moment I began actually thinking for myself and seeking THE LORD and not Joseph Smiths idea of who He was… I quickly realized I had been in a cult my entire life
You don't think there are any mental gymnastics in adopting the Evangelical point of view. The trinity in itself requires mental gymnastics. Even more so, trying to say God is loving and yet he will let the majority of his creation go to Hell requires mental gymnastics as well. Do you not see it?
The TRI, unity of God:.. the 1 being Of God, existing in the 3 distinct and separate personage.
Hell is a permanent separation from the TRI unity of God.
Hell was not created for his “imago dei”, man being created as image bearers of GOD but
Sin , our willingness to turn and walk away from God separated us from HIM. It was never part of his creation and desire to send man to hell. It was for the evil one and his fallen angels.
But for us “ while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us.”
The very nature and the exact imprint of God, Jesus, God who took on flesh made his dwelling place among us and took upon Him the sins of the fallen world and reconciled US the sinners to a holly and Just triune God. It’s only through the blood of Jesus are we found right and have peace with GOD
So question for you??
Why would a Holly, Just and all loving God force someone into His presence for eternity?
In other words, if you’re content with the separation and Sin that has been placed on this earth by man why would you ever care to be in His presence in the life to come?
Is that loving to force a real relationship onto someone for eternity?
@Clark-po2rb I agree. I am Mormon. I do not choose sin but, just as everyone else, I am fallible. I choose to be with God after this life and will be with you in Heaven.
Praise GOD!
Welcome to the Fold Young Lady! ~ sDg
Shoutout to our brothers for not correcting her view on free will (yet). Thankful for this interaction and for the love and patience you demonstrated! My wife and I just watched the whole video and will certainly pray for them both.
Praise God, we were trying to exercise wisdom there.
(This is to you, Patrick, and also to Apologia themselves but I can’t tag both on phone)
Would you mind explaining the correction here in the comments? I’m a Christian and still learning and I’m scared to say that I didn’t quite pick up on it! I’ll edit my comment with a timestamp too :) thank you so much if you guys do answer and no problem if you don’t! I know the Lord will reveal it to me as well as I keep studying the Word.
edit: I believe the comments you guys were referring to started around 29:30
Not correcting her free will (yet), will hopefully be the liberating factor that will free her from the clutches of the deception practiced. That is not wisdom. That is clearly deception. May she maintain her own mind and free will. Thanks for admitting that you do not respect her and wish to deceive from the beginning. May she recognize those red flags. That is of Satan, not Jesus.
@@justvibin9887Yes! Just briefly. We live (sadly) under the influence of a very man-centered kind of theology/philosophy that assume that the reason God sent Jesus was to give us the option to exercise our free will. In this view is very common to assume that God is crossing His divine fingers hoping that people will not reject His offer of salvation. But the Bible teaches differently. It teaches that our free will is free to act according to our nature. If we are sinners dead in sin we cannot use our free will to choose God. The book of Romans, for example, teaches that left to our own “free willing” we are doomed to an eternity separated from God because in our unregenerate state (carnal state, having not been born again) our mind cannot obey God neither it wants to do so - so assuming that God sent Jesus to see if we will receive him through our fallen free will is a no-no. And then Paul continues to explain, still in Romans, that salvation is a gift of grace that we receive through faith according to a plan God prepared before hand for those whom He knew before hand (speaking of relational knowledge), in order to make evident that salvation depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy (Romans 9:16). Now, you will have people saying that this is not just, but they do this because they presuppose man deserve grace. The Bible teaches the opposite, we actually deserve God’s wrath. As you read Romans you’ll find that God says “Esau I hated, but Jacob I loved.” So, when you read that statement remember that the amazing part is not that God hates Esau, Esau is a sinner who deserves justice. The amazing part of that statement is that God loved Jacob who also deserves wrath. I hope that helps. I’m not sure if our brothers from apologiautah agree with me 100% but I suggest you read the book of Romans and let the Spirit speak to you. I can fail in my explanation but He will never lead you astray. And don’t forget the reason we want to learn “deep doctrines” is because we want to know God Himself not to argue with our Christian brothers like the brother who is accusing me up here to be Satan. He thinks he is changing the world. 😂😂
@@justvibin9887Also, I apologize for poor grammar. It is 2am and I’m trying to care for my pregnant wife who developed a fever out of nowhere. But I wanted to answer to you now because tomorrow will be a busy day with work, studying and a meeting with two LDS missionaries in the evening. Pray for that meeting!
She totally nailed it at the 30:30 mark when she said when you’re truly converted/saved, the Holy Spirit changes your heart. And so, you now want to do good and not sin. Some of my LDS friends think Christians believe you can just do ‘whatever you want’ after you’re saved. But what they’re missing is that when someone is truly saved, what they ‘want to do’ changes. They want to now live for God instead of living for themselves.
Yepp crazy. Love it.
But how do you explain the Mormons and other Christians who "want to do what God asks them to do" even if their beliefs differ than yours. Are they not saved? They desire to do Gods will as well.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m They follow a different God.
@kamarwashington And does that different God actually exsist? Because if so, then I guess Evangelicals are wrong about there being only one God. And if not, I suppose the real God will see the Mormons trying to worship him (the real God) and will save them anyways because they have faith im him. Unless you think the one sin that God will not forgive is incorrect theology about who he is.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m I’m meaning they’re serving an idol. Just like Muslims and other faiths that recognize Jesus. Your line of reasoning justifies even non-Christians. Idols don’t save, as they aren’t real.
Besides, Mormons have a multitude of problems. Getting God wrong is one of many.
To God the glory. Praying for Christine.
She's a Calvinist
@@DiscerningMagnetismOh wow that’s great to hear! How do you know?
@@Eagle_Powers Did you watch the video?
@@DiscerningMagnetism I said how do you know she is a Calvinist?
@@Eagle_Powers You didn't say, you asked how. I watched the video.
Jack started out sounding like he was kinda barrowing from Christianity, but as the conversation goes on he starts to mock Christianity more and more. It's sad.
Yea pray for him.
@@apologiautahMormons use similar tactics to what Muslims do and they both make the same arguments that Atheists make Nicene Creed and The Trinity as well.
God bless you. Thank you for sharing with the LDS community.
Let’s pray that the Lord uses this!
I have a lot of hope for her. Everyone should pray for Christy. She seems to be tracking with Andrew. The man i dont think is hearing anything. He is arrogant and thinks of himself as god like already. He creates his own knowledge. But Christy seems to get it.
I joined Mormonism many years ago (1983) and left after 6 years. It was when I found out that men think they will become gods that I was out.
Investigators are told that Mormonism is just another Christian denomination.
It’s not until you attend for a while that you begin hearing how different it really is.
@@ginamiller6754 My daughters best friend was raised Mormon. She doesn't believe. Her mother found out and threatened her with some kind of Mormon conversion therapy. So she no longer is open with her parents about her beliefs. Or lack thereof. There is a lot of deception within that religion. And a lot of coercion. But my biggest concern is that creating a alternate Christ strips the ability to be covered by his atonement. Because a false Christ can't save you. I'm praying that more and more Mormons , as well as others in false systems will hear and be saved to the true Christ. I'm glad you got out. I'm grateful for my salvation as well. Praise and glory to Christ our Lord
As soon as this young woman agreed that Mormonism's works based salvation is in error... my heart was like, "YES!" I believe the seed has been planted in good soil.
I wish you guys would use Titus more... it emphasizes the regenerative heart through the Holy Spirit apart from works. "He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit whom He poured out upon us richly." That is just a minor suggestion though... your church's ministry is awesome.
I do have to memorize that one. Thank you! 🙏
I agree!!
My Mormon sister in law named one of her twin boys Titus. I asked my Mormon mil if she knew the verse and if he was named after the Bible, but no, he was named after a family member. I was sad because I was trying to do some ministry.
Revelation 20:12
King James Version
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their Works.
...
lol works not judged according to their faith
...
Revelation 22:12
King James Version
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORKS shall be.
...
works again
...
1st Timonthy 2
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
...
charity holiness sobriety faith better do the works
...
Mathew 25 kjv
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
...
now notice in vs 44 they call him lord and that is faith but they didnt do works and got
everlasting punishment everlasting fire
keep in mind this is Jesus talking but i guess you can call him a liar
works works works
your doctrine is false
nice smug hate video try harder
@@unholywarrior9007works are required for salvation not to be saved ( initially )Ephesians 2:8-9 and that’s where mormans have it right! I agree with all those scripture you just wrote! Praise God brother! Titus 3:14 be careful to maintain GOOD WORKS!!
John 15:14 you are My friends “if” (this is a condition) “you” (giving instructions to you to do) do whatever I command!
@ramonmaldonado5803 hey curious do you have a different definition for saved salvaged salvation or all the same ?
This was amazing! It seems like God is pursuing Christine. I'm excited for her and praying for her. Beautiful job presenting the gospel to her!
It has always bothered me when they bring up proxy work for the dead when the BOM basically says it’s not possible.
Alma 42:13
Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in THIS PROBATIONARY STATE (meaning THIS lifetime), yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.
What a wonderful, young lady! She was intelligent with clear thoughts. You could tell the Holy Spirit was working on her right then and there. Praying she goes to First Baptist or finds another Bible-believing Christian church to attend that will become her new church family!
Lol goes to first baptist? You mean the people that watched its founder bail 1 month after starting it because he claimed they didn't have authority to baptize.... so 2 months later when people were leaving the church, they changed to teachings and said baptism isn't necessary anymore and priesthood isn't needed "so come on back yall"
@@curtisdecker3175 I'm not familiar with that particular church. Was that not the church that was recommended in this video?
@K3mbusm read your comment... you said "praying she goes to the first Baptist church or another"
You recommended your church... and you don't even know the history of your church which I grew up in and left.
@K3mbusm why you playing dumb and lying, pretending you don't know.
@@curtisdecker3175 What church do you attend, Curtis?
Praying for Christine, I hope there was a follow up with her- I’d love to see a follow up conversation!
“My Jesus is the cornerstone not a stepping stone.” Amen!
Bless you bro Andrew +
Soli Deo Gloria.
My wife and I shall pray for that young lady
While I watched this video, I kept thinking that the conversation was very frustrating and very productive at the same time!
God bless you for your quick thinking, and also for being focused on presenting the gospel. I learned a lot from that!
Jack seems like a simple contrarian just to be a contrarian.
If you claim a circle as a circle, he will claim it as a straight line and then proceed to continue to believe it to be a circle.
Praying for Christine! She's seeing a glimpse of the light outside of the cave of Mormonism!
Andrew thank you for preach the gospel to Mormon. 🙏
Great job Andrew. I like how you turned your focus to the girl to help her through a tough transition out of the LDS church and into the true Biblical Gospel.
He's not helping her through a tough transition. He passed her off onto somebody else. And made a video about it for a small amount of money. He was laughing about it.
I want to be friends with her. Praying for her ❤️ Great job, Andrew! 👏
Praise God Sister! I pray you guys had a good trip!
Oh, the Mormon guy is quite confused. His hypocrisy is quite obvious.
I know right and I’m amazed that he and many other Mormons have no idea what their own belief is.
@@henkaistudio I just read this yesterday in the D&C
D&C 130:3
"John 14:23-The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false."
Total outright denying the legitimacy of the Bible.
@@JesusPPK Yeah I figured so and D&C contradicts The Book of Mormon as well. But Mormons try to have it both ways but you can’t have it both ways at all.
@@henkaistudio cults tend to take bits of what fits their theology to make doctrine. It's quite sad.
@@JesusPPK Yeah I know and yes it is very sad indeed and also Mormons tend to use similar tactics that Muslims use as well. Both Mormons and Muslims are shown to be very similar to each other and in fact they both have a lot more in common with each other than they do with Christians which is crazy.
Wow! This has to be one of the most powerful encounters I've seen here. Not to diminish any of the others, of course. Such an articulate and powerful gospel presentation. What I also found powerful were the moments you were sensitive to let both of the mormon folk speak to each other and voice themselves, which beautifully opened the door and solidified the truth.
Absolutely beautiful. Praise the Lord.
Great interaction. So much respect shown! Prayers that the seeds planted will take root and grow in them both.
That was beautiful praise God!
The 'charity work' I did as a Mormon, is the Bishop would make us go clean up and weed the yards of the ward's older retired millionaires. I swear the biggest houses around my neighborhood were always the ones I did 'charity work at'.
what charity work does Apologia Utah do?
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m I'm sure if they establish themselves as a legitimate church, they will perform the charity you are questioning. The path they are currently on is dark and latent with uncertainties. Rather than be trained by the Word of God and led by the Holy Spirit, they follow the training of Jeff Durbin and are led by Jeff Durbin. As long as this is true, they will never mature and blossom under God. Durbin wishes to be great and large. He is power hungry and controlling. He does not want other plants to grow like him/his. He wishes to keep everyone and everything under him/his. Megalomania and Narcissism.
Bro this sorta mormon girl was hyping me upppppp. Hope Christ does work in her life!
That was amazing! And, THIS is what we should be saying every time a LDS comes to our door! Don't shoo them away. Try to save them! God bless💗🙏💗🕊
What a blessing to see faithful workers for the Kingdom! Praying she really does stop attending the Mormon 'church' and truly seeks Christ!
My Jesus is The Cornerstone, not a stepping stone!🔥🔥🔥 Sheesh. That’s a bar!🔥🔥🔥
This Mormon guy has yet to read Romans.
Romans 5:19-6:4 ESV
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. [20] Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, [21] so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[Chapter 6] What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? [3] Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [4] We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Those were the verses that resonated with me & that’s how Jesus reached me. I gave my life to Him ALONE when I read them. I’d been raised thinking I had to be perfect so I’d given up! (I won’t mention which church, but it wasn’t mormon. ) I guess I’ll never understand why people don’t question the teachings in any organization. I did & I’m so glad I did. Being saved is beyond what words can express. 🙌
Amen Amen Amen! Jesus is the perfect sacrifice Hebrews 10: 1-39 Galatians 2: 18-21. I have been crucified with Christ it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me. I left the LDS church years ago most of my family is still LDS. Praying that they would come to the truth and seek Christ and rest in Him alone.
Praise God!!
I wish this was a thing back when I had lived in Utah. It was really hard to grow spiritually. I was so isolated.
I grew up Strict Mormon and had a mental breakdown. Another Christian taught me Gods Grace and Love! His Grace hit me like a ton of loving bricks!!! I never realized Gods love and he is here to help not SHAME us!! I still believe in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.. I am so DISsAPOINTED in our current leaders. They arn't very wise, just strict and obedient much like Pharisees. The church has turned into a corporation. They all sold out to ignorance & obedience. ANy mormons out there that can relate?
That's exactly it! I see them as the Pharisees as well. I hope you come and join us (evangelicals) someday soon.😊
I would like to hear more of your story because I have a different view about the leaders of the LDS Church. I think they want the best for everyone and obeying commandments means you don't have to accept the consequences of bad actions. It is logical.
I don't think they are perfect but no one is.
Do you see the error in Evangelical beliefs as well? Such as they believe most people will go to a torturous Hell while they are eternally happy?
The biggest belief in the LDS church is that ALL people are children of God, and as imperfect as the leaders are, they believe this to the core.
Evangelicals can not say the same.
@@allieReformed i want to bring the "evangelical" spirit to my mormon family and friends but I have to play Professor Snape! LOL otherwise they will NEVER listen to me.
@@99blackbirds I hear you! My Mormon family won't listen to me either (yet). Please make sure you're saved in the meantime.🙂
Just a couple of Scriptures, I thought of watching this.
(Luke 15:10:)"In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
(Mark 16:15:) "And he said to them, 'Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.'"
(2 Corinthians 5:20:) "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."
(Romans 10:14-15:) "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: 'How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!'"
It’s so difficult to listen to Jack. He’s all over the place. And Andrew has a gift to stay focused in spite of that. Plus, I truly think this conversation wasn’t for him but for a Christine who is clearly receptive to the Biblical Gospel. Praying for both of them though.
Also, I love when she calls out the hypocrisy of Latter-day Saints who disapprove of Christians preaching to them yet it’s perfectly okay for LDS missionaries to convert Protestants, Catholics, etc. al. to Mormonism. And for Andrew saying that Jesus is a cornerstone, not a stepping stone.
Great job, Andrew!
The guy does not want to hear truth! He’s defending all the mormon lies & he’s defending JS who was into the occult & was not a prophet! The young lady is listening. Praise Jesus!
Praise GOD!
Ah! This whole conversation was so good 🙌🏼
They have a different jesus. Hard to dispute that. Make your choice
Great job, Christine! Continue thinking logically. You see the very clear similarities with Islam and Mormons, two clearly false prophets beginning cults. This young man was trying to both flirt with you and distract you from forming your own decision. Women are treated as lesser humans in both of these cultures, Islam and Mormonism. Keep seeking Truth and freedom in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Read the Bible in a literal, grammatical, historical way. God reveal himself through his Word. ❤️❤️❤️
Andrew. I would like to convese with you. I think Wade has been praying for me and I think his prayers have been answered and mine as well in a way because I do understand now why you believe the way you believe about grace, the trinity, etc. Like Christine, I see both sides. I do see the Mormon view as well and I also see the Athiest view. I have learned from Bart Erhman.
The problem I have is understanding why Evangelicals choose to worship God when they understand him to be someone who will allow most of his creation to be tortured for eternity because they lived a fallible life with fallible theology.
That is where I am stuck.
I kind of expect you to say " well Katherine, would you rather be tortured forever or be happy " And I would say I would rather be happy. But, even more than me be happy, I would rather others be happy. I may be imperfect in that now, but I have that vision. The LDS teach about teaching and loving others in the spirit world after this life. I love that picture of continuing love for all people.
But I don't see that in your view. All I see is you forgetting about most of mankindin in the next life expecting them to be eternally tortured while you are happy.
I can't respect this idea. It seems so cowardly to forget about most of mankind in the next life because you want ease and comfort.
"inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brothern, ye have done it unto me."
By loving our neighbors, we love God. Will that not continue in the next life?
Do you at least see where I am coming from.
I respect and understand all your beliefs except your choice to worship God when you think the one sin his atonement will not cover, is incorrect theology.
"if you took a banana and made it infinite," which is impossible, therefore a pointless statement.
"They didn't know more than they already knew," WHAT 🙃
This is guy is speaking complete *nonsense*, and thinks he sounds really smart the whole time.
Lord save Christine!
Andrew just to clear up theology. In the pre-existence as Mormons believe we were created by existing material so to speak called intelligences but somewhere in the doctrine it says and what I always learned growing up is that we will have Spirit children after this life. It says nothing about us organizing them. If you run into another Mormon who's kind of ignorant about the very old school teachings by old school. I mean less than 10 years ago. That will help you.
Excellent insight!
That guy was just plain weird. Happy for the young lady being saved.
Oh wow, bad theology pushed both of them into Mormonism. So sad.
The guy literally couldn’t quote the third article of faith in his own religion, but then wants to go tell the girl she’s uneducated of her own religion lol.
God bless you Christine !
You could be a good Christian preacher if you come to the real Christ of the Bible! Aleluya!
The young Mormon convert man clearly hasn’t read “The Miracle of Forgiveness” nor “Mormon Doctrine.”
If you’ve been given the knowledge in this life but didn’t choose to use it, there is no second chance.
Please tell me what happened to the young lady. She seemed to be on fire in a good way. I found i started crying and praying in tongues while hearing her . Actually it would be great getting testimonials feedback about how are they now. I know through God alone their must be some feedback street teaching fruit
I pray Christine has moved away from Mormonism and is now in a Bible teaching church.
The path this church is currently on is dark and latent with uncertainties. Rather than be trained by the Word of God and led by the Holy Spirit, they follow the training of Jeff Durbin and are led by Jeff Durbin. As long as this is true, they will never mature and blossom under God. Durbin wishes to be great and large. He is power hungry and controlling. He does not want other plants to grow like him/his. He wishes to keep everyone and everything under him/his. Megalomania and Narcissism.
How sad that you don’t want truth! Jeff & others like him, are trying to reach the lost, like the mormons. Maybe it’s you who needs Jesus ALONE. Please open your heart & your Bible. Jeff was once like you, but was saved, so he wants everyone to hear the gospel of Jesus. He’s doing exactly what Jesus has told us true Believers to do. He cares about the souls of those who’ve been led astray!
@@dandelion1239 What are you talking about? I'm a Baptist missionary. I open my heart, bible, and wallet all across the globe you twit. I literally travel across the globe on my own dime to care about the souls of those who've been led astray or have never heard the gospel. It's my whole life. Where do you come from? Besides trolling RUclips chats, what contribution have you made to the church and for the lost souls you pretend to care so much about?
I'm not against Calvinism. I want to see Apologia Utah grow and blossom into something legitimate. Right now, they are barely able to survive. I want them to thrive. Durbin does not want another plant to thrive or surpass him. It's written in the books of his own History. You literally came on here attacking with absolutely nothing constructive to offer. Also, I was never a drug addict, amongst all the other things Durbin.
He's fine on his own. He reaches a lot of people. He's not who I would recommend to new converts, but it's difficult to deny his success. A lot of turnover in his Church though, from what I've gathered. The sheer volume of his church's ministry makes up for that. Not the kind of person an aspiring plant wants to be under. His celebrity status helps when he makes a guest appearance, but Apologia Utah needs to learn how to stand on their own. Less they forever remain his shadow or eventually close their doors. I do not want to see that happen. Utah needs them.
You literally know nothing about me, except what I just shared with you. Repent!
We are made in God’s image so we are all without excuse. Sin is personal free choice. We don’t have to sin. Just like love. I don’t have to love but I choose to love. Love cannot be love unless it is given freely. Same with God, we freely choose to love and follow Christ or we choose to reject him. This Mormon’s problem is he never really got to know or understand true historical ancient Christianity.
This sound like a closeted agnostic 😂
What was he initially frustrated at?
That Jack guy she is odd. He twists both Christian teachings and Mormon teachings, and doesn’t seem to understand either.
I am Mormon. Christine in this video says "I see both sides." I see both sides as well. I have been praying to understand why Evangelicals believe how they believe and I got an answer. I know why they believe what they believe.
One of the reasons I choose the LDS beliefs is because I see God's mercy in their beliefs.
I could choose the Evangelical belief system but...
I do not see the mercy in Evangelicalism.
That is where I am stuck. How do I worship a God who will allow most of his creation to suffer in eternal flames for eternity because they had the wrong theology in this life.
Why does it matter if I am saved when most people are not?
I see no Empathy in Evangelical beliefs and I am stuck. I am an Empath.
How do I choose Evangelical beliefs when I see no empathy. All I see is me being happy while most people are tortured. And I cry and cry and cry. It is awful news. Who cares if I am saved when most people are tortured.
Christine. Help me out here.
I would like to engage in dialogue with you if you don’t mind. May I ask how much of the Bible you’ve read just to know have a starting foundation. And of the extra biblical text that are part of the LDS
Joseph Smith was a Freemason. Look up Ex Freemason testimony ; it's the Worship of Lucifer hence why the LDS doctrine teaches you can become a God.
I can talk with you. I am not sure if you will tell me anything different then any other Evangelical that I have talked too and it is so discouraging. I have studied the old testament and new testament. And I see both the Evangelical view and the Mormok view. And I also see the Bart Erhman view (he is a Agnostic religious historian).
I learn truth in all these view points and I piece them together to try to complete this picture of existence.
BUT, I can not see the Evangelical viewpoint in why they choose to worship God believing he is how they say he is. It sounds so selfish!
They are ok that they are saved and they expect to be happy for eternity while most people are being tortured in Hell. How awful is that! Why would they not choose to go to Hell to help those in need? Why would they not sacrifice their own happiness in the next life mourn with those who mourn? I can't respect that viewpoint because it sounds so cowardly.
I respect Atheists like Bart Erhman who would live their lives for the betterment of future generations even though they do not expect to exist beyond this life. That is true selflessness!
But how do I respect you, who is happy as can be because YOU are saved and even though you try to convince people in this life, you most likely will forget about the majority of mankind in the next life while you are happy and they are tortured.
And you still sleep at night, believing this? How in the world do I respect your beliefs system?
You may tell me that people choose to go to Hell. I am not choosing to go to Hell! And I don't think most people do as I give them the benefit of the doubt.
I love God! I understand him to be merciful. He died for you and me and all people. For all of our imperfections including that of incorrect knowledge. And the LDS are the only ones who actually make sense when they talk about God's mercy.
Please don't damn me to Hell saying I believe in the wrong God. Please please listen to what I am saying!
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m
I can tell you’ve put a lot of thought into this and I appreciate your genuine concerns. I’m also glad to hear that you’ve read through both testaments.
So while I’ll try and add some clarity to the issue. I suppose the real question in this matter that I’d like you to sit with it. “Do I believe in God/religion x because I’m convinced of it being true/know it to be true, or because it brings me comfort”
And “if you become convinced orthodox Christianity is true, would you become a follower of it”
So I’ll assume you subscribe to a monotheistic world view (there is only one God / one god worth worshipping). So while there are many different religions and even denominational breakdowns within each religion they can’t all be right / teach the same thing. Now there’s a logical case that can be said that none of them are right and there is either no true religion or it has yet to be revealed to us humans. But you don’t sound like a skeptic to me so we have to pick one that is available
The Mormon teachings are interesting to say the least and I do find there is a lot of philanthropical work that comes from the LDS which I truly appreciate. Why I personally will say that LDS is outside of non-orthodox Christianity is due to its extra biblical texts that essentially red-con /rewrite who God is. Rather than viewing it as a specific denomination. I’d like your response to this to see if you agree /reject this statement
It sounds to me that you’re no inherently opposed to Christianity but it seems like the divide of heaven and hell bothers your soul. It’s a fair point
Do you believe me that Heaven is where God resides , and Hell is where God is absent ?
So where things get interesting. Because to be part of the family of God one simply accepts the free gift of salvation that Jesus gave us. So it’s not as if we have to pay our way into salvation or work our way into salvation. We simply must have an open heart to receive it. So to say that God sends people to hell suggests that we as humans don’t have self agency in the decisions we make, and I’m not a Calvinist so I do fully believe we have free will (yes God could turn that off but for whatever reason he really likes the idea of us choosing him by choice, and choice means there must be more than one option).
You could even make a case that Satan left heaven rather than being kicked out.
Now there are people who’ve never heard the Gospel either cuz they just live under a rock so to speak or they aren’t old enough / conscience enough to get understand. Will these folks go to hell? Believe it or not I don’t think so. The reasoning being that God is a just God who judges us individually and fairly. It seems out of God’s character to judge a person who flat out rejects the Gospel the same as someone who never had a chance to hear it. Another biblical example is pointing to the Old Testament, none of the people at that time were told about Jesus, and thus could never follow him/accept his sacrifice. There’s that story where Jesus during his 3-day adventure was actively teaching the Gospel to the matriarchal figures of the OT
Which from that I gleam that God really judges us from the heart. A willingness to learn /desire God. Do what that statement as you will
So after my yapping in essence.
While God is not with us now as he was with Adam and Eve, his grace/ protection still resides with us. Life here on earth right now isn’t perfect clearly but it’s far from bad (however bad our days here can get at times
Those who accept the free gift of salvation to Jesus Christ make it to heaven as that Jesus takes care of the issue of sin that we’ve all taken part in (regardless if you subscribe to original sin or not)
While those who don’t accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior will pay the natural wages that our sins cause which is death (separation from God or Hell)
If you’re familiar with Dante’s Inferno. That book did a number on our understanding of the afterlife. I’m not convinced that once we die we will go straight up or down I think there’s a bit of a waiting period. Something about the second resurrection so I do hold onto a nuanced view that I view a difference with Those who do not accept Jesus versus those who flat out reject Jesus. So I personally do think it’s possible to find salvation in the afterlife BUT…why postpone or gamble like that get right with God in this life time we know we have LoL
Now I am of the belief that Hell is a place that lacks God’s protection /grace so it’s not a place i wanna be. I’m super sure if people who are in hell just flat out cease to exist
Or if they suffer because now they are in their sinful state without God’s intervention so they reap what they sow. Or if God is actively rebuking/correcting them and the correction feels like fire (you know how fire can both purify or kill).
Why a separation ? Well that’s the beauty of choice. Even in the LDS belief structure I believe there’s three locations one can go, which still suggests there’s a separation , granted none of them seem as undesirable as hell. So while the option of hell existing does not sound fun and nice. We are sent there due to our own sinful actions. And we have been given. The opportunity to escape it by a willfully submission.
It’s actually one of the reasons that evangelizing is such a powerful tool as it’s the active spreading of the Good news. I don’t believe that forced conversions are God’s ways nor do I think it even helps because it’s not our work that saves but our willful submission (you can’t force people to believe , perhaps their actions but not their thoughts). Now for those who reject the message either for a season / or forever should not be forgotten by us on this side of eternity. We should still pray that all come to the knowledge and acceptance of Christ. But the Bible did say that not all will make it to heaven, but it’s not up to us to judge who makes it and who doesn’t. We simply have to share the message and remind us that we can’t convert anyone, that’s up to God and their hearts.
I also don’t suggest being a Christian strictly as a way to avoid hell or to get into heaven. As you probs would agree that there’s a genuine need for character reformation. Start off with wanting to learn /know about God and see how powerful/merciful he is.
I feel like I’ve probs hit you with a bunch of yap. But I hope that at the very least I don’t think your concerns are invalid. That I provided some biblical guidance that things aren’t quite as you thought they are. And that we as humans have agency in our own decision. So while we didn’t choose this universe /circumstance we do choose how to respond. I eagerly await your response
I grew up lds I explore other faiths now but I do still love lds teachings it’s a very logical system when you understand the whole view
This dude is a prime example of “chronically online”. Nearly insufferable.
This guy acts and sounds like Fuentes.
She's sharp, but she's wrong about Satan's plan according to Mormonism (22:42). It was not works-based. Satan's plan was to guarantee salvation for all of God's children by removing free will. If it is guaranteed, it can't be contingent on our works. I like a lot of what she said though.
By removing free will, it is forced into doing everything correct in order to obtain salvation….
It would still be works based, right?
If free will is removed then the only way to obtain salvation is through "earning" it through living/doing/thinking/feeling/being perfect --- which is work (a lot of work, actually. haha). Thus, Satan's plan of salvation is guaranteed based on our perfect works.
Which is very on-brand for the devil... Being forced to live & be perfect would be miserable! Can you imagine how stressful that would be? Oh wait, a lot of Mormons can... hehe ;)
@@zwickysnails337 If salvation is guaranteed, what is there to do?
I have a testimony of the church. I grew up Pentecostal and Baptist with a Calvanist dad who didn't have custody of us.
Calvanism is truly wrong, the others were misinformed. When i found the true church of Jesus Christ, my heart was moved, i never had a desire to do good until i found the lds church.
Shame on you people because anyone that knows the lds church can watch this and see your tactics and can see that you proved nothing and you cling to a book to prove God while lds cling to God to prove books.
So you question nothing. JS was into the occult. Hes a false prophet & to be blunt, he’s leading all his followers to hell.
@dandelion1239 with all due respect, I think you may be the one being led to Hell, meaning the fruits of your belief system include a love for most of mankind that will only last this lifetime and then you will forget about most people expecting them to be tortured while you are happy. You believe everyone deserves torture (probably even little children).
The LDS fruits, on the other hand, include focusing on a God that loves all his creation as everyone is a child of God and whose love actually makes sense. This helps the LDS learn to love everyone in this life (imperfectly) and into the next life.
Do you believe people deserve torture? I know of an antisemitic group who believed the same thing in Germany 80 years ago.
@seekingtruthinallthings3969 absolutely, all great points. I wish I could see who you were responding to, as I can't see the comment that you replied to.
@seekingtruthinallthings3969 nvm I found the comment. Lol they're confused and backwards.
@dandelion1239 I question nothing because I questioned everything and asked God with a sincere heart and an open mind, with no bias to prove or disprove anything....I didn't compare what I was raised to believe to what I know now.
So no, I question not because my prayers were answered and the prayers revealed to me say that you are bearing false witness and speaking ill of a gospel, and a prophet that you never met.... remember.... Jesus was accused of misleading a cult, Jesus was twisting scripture, Jesus was leading his followers to Sheol. Noah was making it up when he said God told him to prepare for a flood and they mocked him and his cult, Moses led his cult into the desert, Matthew was a con man tax collector..... careful how you label Prophets of God when trying to condemn those who listen to their warnings.
You follow men that say scripture is no more and God speaks no more, and Jesus teaches no more.... yet you follow men that claim Jesus moves through them (but can't speak anymore)... you follow men that believe not in the resurrection and millennial because you teach that judgment occurs upon death (this makes the resurrection, final battle, and final judgment completely meaningless)..... you teach that scripture is over but when Jesus returns, what will you do when Jesus speaks? Will you tell him to silence himself because he's saying things not in your Bible?
So many things you practice and call truth that is illogical and nonsensical and deeply rooted in pagan history dating to the 4th century..... and you have the audacity to tell us about Hell which the physical underworld Hel is a pagan teaching, biblical hell is a place where the father and son are not.
You have a lot to learn before you want to debunk us, try learning the history of your own theology and your own church lineage and origins. You live in a house built on sand and have cared not to check under the foundation of your very own home.... seriously check into you own history... bet you won't tell me your denomination or sect.
Christine ❤
Jack seems pretty based. Now isn’t the time for different Christian (and yeah, Mormon) denominations to argue. We have much bigger issues in our Judeo-atheistic society to tackle together.
The point is that Mormon Salvation is not works-based, since works without charity are of no value... Thats what you find in the Bible, as well as in the Book of Mormon. But the same thing actually applies to "faith", or to "knowing all of Gods mysteries", or getting everydoctrine right. .
So there is no difference between a evangelical that gets everything right, and a Mormon that gets much wrong, if they both dont bring forth the good fruits of charity, they both dont know God.. On the other hand, Christ was clear that once people bring forth the good fruits, they are of God.
Itrs quite simple, and the good fruits are not owned by anyones individual interpretatio of supposed truth.
Religion makes things complicated. It is used to push people away from God by the devil. Easier to just follow Jesus and his teachings.
GOD DOES NOT SEND PEOPLE TO HELL BECAUSE THEY SIN, THEN EVERYONE IS GOING TO HELL. INSTEAD GOD HAS DEALT WITH SIN OF HUMANITY ON THE CROSS AND WE GET TO GO TO HEAVEN BECAUSE WE ACCEPT THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. IF YOU REJECT THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION, YOU ARE ALREADY CONDEMNED!
The Lord said “ if you love me , keep my Commandments “ both Mormons and the vast majority of Christian’s keep Sunday as the day of worship / Sabbath ; therefore disregarding the biblical Sabbath commandment to keep the seventh day “ Sabbath day holy “ therefore by doing that alone who do they truly worship ? Not God if they know the truth
I don't personally know a single Christian who goes to church on Sunday because they think it's the Sabbath. I'm sure there are some out there, but I've never personally met any. Anyone who thinks we worship on Sunday because we believe it's the Sabbath is ignorant about the history of the reasons for Sunday worship. We all know the Sabbath is from sundown Friday evening to sundown Saturday evening. There are several reasons we worship on Sundays, but there are 2 main reasons: Number one, Sunday worship was originally instituted because the early Christians were converted Jews and they lived and coexisted with other Jews, some even being members of their own family. They wanted to set themselves apart from Judaism. And since the Jews went to synagogue on the Sabbath, the Christians chose to worship on Sunday so their services wouldn't conflict with the Jews. Secondly, Jesus rose on the Sabbath, but the empty tomb wasn't discovered until Sunday morning because the Jews weren't allowed to visit the tomb on the Sabbath since it was the day of rest. They chose to worship on Sundays as a way of commemorating and celebrating the discovery of the empty tomb of Jesus! Any Christian that takes their faith seriously and knows what they believe and why they believe it definitely knows Sunday isn't the Sabbath, and they still try to acknowledge the Sabbath to keep it holy. My family worships on Sundays like most Christians. But, we turn our phones and tv's off on Saturdays, spend the day together as a family, and read the Bible together as a family every Saturday because we want to acknowledge the Sabbath and keep it holy. Sunday worship has nothing to do with any false belief that it's the Sabbath.
I know your job is to pick out all the bad in Mormonism. But please just give them a chance. I have learned from you, would you ever open your hearts to learn even just a little from them?
I think that they know a lot about mormonism. That’s why they are trying to reach them & give them biblical truth. The mormons are following a false narrative & that’s a path of destruction. JS was into the occult & wanted others to join him, so he started his organization of deceit.
I grew up Mormon…
And left to follow Jesus Christ and who HE says He is. Not the made up version Joseph Smith created
@@zwickysnails337 🙌 Wonderful! Thank you Jesus!!!
Mormons can’t teach anything to a true follower of Jesus. That’s because mormons believe Jesus is lucifer’s brother & a myriad of other made up stories by JS. The Bible is the only source of truth. Mormons need to question things & look to only God’s word. Jesus is not a created being. He’s eternal. All the way from Genesis …
@zwickysnails337 well. What can I say. Congratulations on being saved. Now you get to enjoy eternal bliss while you expect the majority of mankind to receive eternal torture after this life. I mean, to me, that sounds incredibly selfish as though your beliefs are turning you into a selfish antisemitic.
Only Mormons are willing to sacrifice their happiness after this life to help and teach those in Hell.
Do you realize that according to your new belief system, most people will be going to Hell after this life because they did not have the right understanding in this life?
But, like I said, congratulations. I know you are child of God and I will treat you like one forever. You will not treat me like one
I actually feel bad for him he's clearly has some problems going on spiritually that are causing some mental problems
Mormonism don't follow the gospel they follow Joseph Smith.
You had someone who doesn't consider religion to be a focal point in their life and a gift wrapped convert already in the process of converting to your religion, and managed to walk one of them down the street to a partner church. I understand all the applause. You guys desperately needed a win, and your people rallied behind you in the comments. That was a good concerted effort. I think your people rallying behind you was far more significant than walking an already converted person down the street. What about the gentleman who doesn't consider religion to be a part of his life? Do you not like a challenge? Is your ministry weak? You just wanted him to shut his mouth so you could grab the fruit that was already in your basket.
Listen, I want to be one of the automatics and applaud you. It would be nice to jump on the bandwagon and present to you another participation trophy, but that would be leftist. I don't do leftist participation trophies. You took the gimme that was already converting, and left the person that needed the gospel, God, and your church, hanging on the tree. He was ripe, low hanging fruit, and you left him there. Then, you had your people come on here and applaud you for walking someone down the street. Congrats on achieving another cheap moment for your will and glory. When will you make the choice and begin to serve the Lord?
To all the people who rallied behind Apologia Utah in the comments: thank you for supporting them through their growing pains and missed opportunities. They are very fortunate and blessed to have your unconditional support. Just, please keep in mind, that participation trophies and automatic applause doesn't help them to grow and develop into a church that is viable within the community. They preach that they should be able to take on extra responsibilities in the community. And, they definitely should. That was their last two sermons. Unfortunately, the quality of their ministry leaves them barely able to pay rent, a struggling church. Rather than giving meaningless applause and compliments, if you genuinely support their ministry, why not give a monetary donation instead? They will never become a legitimate church while they struggle to stand on their own two feet.
That whole ordeal as far as you can do those things after death , baptism ect spoken by the Mormon is absolutely FALSE and not biblical whatsoever #puredeception
Calvinists don’t really believe in agency though, this guy just doesn’t know that & yes i know you’ll say you do but you don’t really. You believe God chooses prior to the earth who is going to heaven & not, that’s not agency & no I’m not Mormon.
25:26 christ does not give us his righteousness. Yes, Grace is a gift, but we must follow Christ. Christ himself said “go, and sin no more.”
Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Spoken by Christ)
James 2 - works are required to prove faith. We are not saved by works, but if no works, our faith is dead and we are not working as Christ worked.
Col 1:23 “if indeed you continue in the faith” (why the “if”)
Rev 3:3-5 - verse 3 talks about how they need to repent, and these are believers. Verse 5 says those who overcome will be clothed in white (saved).
Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Hebrews 6:4-6 it is impossible to renew again to repentance if they fall away.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We must endure and be faithful till the end. God will not force salvation, He could, but that not what scriptures say. Otherwise the saying would be “broad is the way to life…”
Ceasing from sin
1Peter 4:1-3
We must try/endure: Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13, Matthew 24:13, James 2, Col 1:23, Rev 3:3-5, Romans 11:22, Ceasing from sin: 1Peter 4:1-3. James 2:24
test
I know you are sick of me but when she says the people in Heaven and Hell "won't want to be with each other" all I can think of is "yes, that could be true...but...do the people in Hell really deserve eternal torture in Hell or do they deserve to just continue in their sin, doing some good and some bad forever just as they did in this life.
I suppose I don't understand why Evangelicals think a loving God would think people who do not accept him deserve anything less than continuing as they are now, in this imperfect world. I don't think Evangelicals think that through. They don't appear to allow themselves to question.
I may believe differently that others but I do want to spend eternity with my Evangelical friends even if they don't want to spend eternity with me. Because I know they love God just as I do (even if they say I believe in the wrong God, But I don't, I just have some different ideas).
In the end, it doesn't matter what you or I think. It only matters what the Bible says.
@shanematt I guess that is one thing I don't see. I don't see why Evangelicals worship the Bible. The Bible is 66 books put together. There is no outside validation that only those 66 books are the word of God, that every word in them is true and that it is infallible.
That is just common sense. I mean I get why Evangelicals need it to be infallible (or else their belief system crumbles) but that doesn't mean that it is.
An infallible truth is that everyone (including those who wrote the Bible) are fallible in this life. There must be a reason for that and we are all trying to figure it out.
But the fruits of Evangelical thinking is that they are saved while most people are tortured for eternity, but it is ok because they will be happy that they are saved. And they wont care about most of mankind after this life because that would make them sad. I don't see it any other way.
Help me understand why you believe what you believe. You have chosen to believe the Bible is infallible, but why do you believe God is worth worshipping when he will allow most of his creation to be eternally tortured because they have fallible thought processes in this life.
Why do you choose to worship God? Do you never think about these things?
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1mit’s not that we need the Bible to be infallible, it IS the word of God. 2 Tim. 3:16-17, 2 Pet. 1:21, and Matt.22:29-31
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1mcheck out J Warner Wallace cold case christianity...he is an x detective who shows the truth in the Bible
Thank you for the reply. Those verses come from within the Bible. It is circular reasoning. If you were to tell me that God told you that Biblical inerrancy is true, then I would say I can't deny your experience. But you may not say that because as an Evangelical, perhaps you believe that you can't trust your feelings.
I do believe there is truth in the Bible. But I also believe people wrote the Bible and people are fallible. And people are fallible in their interpretations of the Bible.
Is that not true?
I believe the Spirit teaches spiritual truth. But we will all get thing wrong in this life as we are all fallible. Even prophets get things wrong.
But what do our beliefs cause us to do?
It appears that for the Evangelical, his or her beliefs will cause her to forget most of mankind in the next life believing the Evangelical will be happy but most others will be tortured. And they still sleep at night and laugh and have fun while knowing this. Did you sleep last night? It just sounds so evil to me.
I am sorry but how do I respect that?
What the?? Is he talking about.a Christian 1st and a Mormon 2nd ,then he cant be either...hes a pagan.
He talks with big words but no sense....we are not gods...praise God the Sovereign God of the triune
With Jesus and the Holy spirit.
🙏🙏🙏
I will take jesus over joseph
Sad that the Mormon chick is trying to flee the false gospel of mormonism but is being directed by these guys to embrace the false gospel of Calvinism. Hopefully she does not end up a bitter atheist once she sees that Calvinism is even worse than mormonism.
It is worse to believe God is sovereign than to be a Mormon? 😮
I am Mormon and appreciate your different perspective. I am still thinking you don't think I am saved.
@cincosolas_ I think it is worse to think you are better than everyone else to the point where you think you are saved and get eternal happiness, and most people will get eternal torture, then be a Mormon.
Calvinism fosters temporary love for most of mankind. They are children of God and no one else is.
Mormonism fosters a belief that everyone is a child of God and will be loved by him and his followers forever.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m They are pretending to be New Testament Jews. There is no such thing as the "elect" for gentiles. You are saved just like all who believe and have faith in Jesus. There is no such thing as a wrong Jesus. Only the Antichrist. You can spot the Antichrists' followers by observing and discerning that they are opposite of Jesus and his teachings. Calvinists will be found wanting.
@@DiscerningMagnetismthank you. It is comforting to hear that not only am I saved but that all people are who believe in Jesus. For what does it matter if I am saved if most people are not. I am a Mormon. And like many other religious people, I believe Jesus died for my sins. As simple as that. Are you of a specific belief system?
FAKE