I am vegetarian (not quite vegan). I think other people should be free to eat meat, even though I believe it to be a moral abomination. I don't think PETA should expel me for that.
@neil allen The Catholic church has done a lot to fight that issue and has continuously condemned such actions. Stop pretending like that issue has not addressed.
@neil allen Mind explaining the logic behind your interpretation of Mt 18:6-14? I'm really not sure how you've arrived at the conclusions you've stated based on the scripture passage you provided Jesus does (roughly) say it would be better for pedophiles to receive millstone necklaces, but it doesn't prescribe that Christians round up pedophiles and strap millstones around their neck. That said, I agree with you that pedophilia in all institutions, from youth sports programs, daycares, classrooms, and even the Church should be dealt with more decisively than it has in the past; society has failed us in this regard and I'm proud of the steps the Church has made in the last few decades to amend this wrong I'll pray for you, friend. You're casting the image of Satan on others without properly discerning their faith or beliefs, be careful to not let that sever your charity toward others
@neil allen, the "truth bomb" I'm referring to is Trent's critique of pro-choice politicians accusing the catholic bishops for being, well, catholic. Are you implying, that unless he mentions other causes of suffering and death in the world, he shouldn't have said that? Or even made this video, for that matter?
@neil allen Do you post that fact on every RUclips channel addressing a social ill. Is BLM or the Susan G Komen Foundation a bunch of frauds because they don't address world hunger?
@neil allen Neil not in America and we are talking about American stats and the amount of people that starve to death in America is extremely low compared to the babies that are aborted in America . If people saved themselves for marriage we wouldn’t have the abortion problem .
@@CopyPaste88 arnas but still we need to call out the death penalty on the same fervor as abortion but Ted lieu instead of admitting that his views on abortion are absolutely wrong and in support of murder he worries about other people’s grave sins . Both democrats and republicans are hypocrites . The democrats are mostly ok with killing innocent babies and the republicans could car less about the poor and homeless .
YES! This is the WORST FREAKING ARGUMENT I have ever heard against pro life laws! ALL LAWS impose someone's beliefs on other people! And thank God they do!
@@MasterKeyMagic lel. How about laws against mass murder? Should those be repealed too? I think sense all anarchists hate laws so much, none should protect them.
@@kenanthompson2075 By default you can't be pro-freedom and vote in a dictatorship of the majority. "Pro-freedom people" are left-libertarians where the only rule is controlling others is wrong and doing so allows for the controlled any degree of retaliation against he who trys to control others. Its a volunteer society.
@@Arcticroberto9376 seems like you’re demonstrating one of the 6 tactics of Pro-Choice Catholics. Based on Trent’s video, i respond: let’s ban all pope’s that lead government executions from communion. If we do that, do you agree that politicians that support the expansion and funding of legalized abortion should be disallowed from the holy sacrament?
"I dare you to deny me Holy Communion" Ted Lieu is basically testing God. The priest is an Altar Christus and to dare them to withhold the Eucharist is a form of Pride. Good luck Ted. God resists the proud.
Introduction 3:09 Double-down on being Catholic 4:46 "I can't impose my views" 11:36 Complaining about double-standards 14:28 Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion 20:11 "God gave us free will" 24:07 Misinterpreting Scripture (Coming soon...) @The Counsel of Trent, putting a timeline on your description can really help to go over some of the concepts/conversational tips provided. Thank you very much for all your work.
We’re so fortunate to have Trent Horn, Catholic Answers, Pints with Aquinas etc to keep us within the bounds of Catholic teaching. They’re teaching us how to reach salvation with great clarity. Pray that Catholic brothers and sisters find a way to learn what the Church actually teaches like we get to do here
@@JJ-zr6fu Cortez is a sore point for me, besides the fact she's Puerto Rican there isn't even a single trivia point about her that's Christian, let alone Catholic and she keeps hammering this home all the time, she considers herself shepardic jewish too but praises pope Francis over some midwit interpretation about amoris laetitia, etc. It's patently aware she's an atheist, why even go through the pageantry of pretending she's Catholic? I don't get it
@@Qwerty-jy9mj she’s pandering. She will be whatever religion is the flavor of the week. She’s “Jewish” so she can criticize Israel, she’s “Catholic” so she can praise a misinterpretation of the Pope. If an Imam comes out and says that socialism is the cure for everything, she’ll say she’s Muslim. Not a genuine bone in that woman’s body.
A person could call himself a giraffe but that doesn’t make it so. Maybe these folks that you’ve listed USE their Catholicism when it’s convenient. They shut it down when inconvenient truth rears it’s head.
I often find that taking their arguments and applying the logic to other things - with respect and humility - is effective. That's why i like your stuff, Trent.
Thank you Trent. You always give down to earth and clear reasons for defending our Faith. Love the Cardinals explanation of “not imposing my views on others”. That was brilliant. Like your questions about death penalty brings it home. You are a God- send.👏🏻
Im Catholic but I would still be vehemently pro life even as an atheist. Killing a helpless innocent creature is an abomination against not only God but against nature. I can see the other side of most arguments but I just cant get there on this issue.
Anytime I hear any Catholic start with “I’m Catholic, but [insert something completely contrary to Church teaching]”, I immediately want to help them understand! Sometimes their views are shaped out of misinformation or they barely have a rudimentary understanding of their faith. In regards to Pro-choice Catholics, it’s rarely due to lack of knowledge but willful ignorance. They know why the Church teaches what it does and can easily look up extra info, but they've become too ingrained in secular culture and brainwashed into thinking the Church is “old-fashioned and nothing but old, controlling man!” So sad that people choose to live in ignorance rather than learn Truth. 😢 I always try to pray a rosary for those souls and try to live my life in accordance to God’s will.
Yes, it is so saddening. No wonder why Francisco said, "God is so sad. If only I could console him !" Let us continue to pray with mother Mary and offer her our rosary prayers for all politicians
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
@@NathanLongacre-jo6cx No in both cases, but believing the federal government has no right to ban anything is a ludicrous position. Should something like murder or rape not be banned nationwide?
US Président and Catholic congress men and women have their responsibilities and guilty position towards millions of unborned deads from the threath of prochoice clearly presented with your statement. Tank you so much Trent Horn.
Great apologetics Trent! Like the use of current examples of public figures stating their beliefs on both sides. Very practical. Keep up the good work. Ave Maria!
Excellent breakdown of how the pro-choice politicians justify being Catholic . . . the video clip of the Cardinal's example with Congress was awesome! We need to pray for these pro-choice politicians as well as confront them. They are wrong! Amen!
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
We must also ask about the similarity between death penalty and abortion when they twist things up to confuse us (pro lifers) by asking "why do you support Death penalty ?" Regardless of what answer they give they're gonna be inconsistent and fail the argument .
You can also just bypass the argument of religious duty. If you believe the teachings of the Catholic Church, you believe the unborn child is an innocent human life. As a politician, you have a duty to protect those lives
God is Grey (21:10) is hardly christian her basis for a sin is if it causes you to feel shame so literally if you don't feel shame then its not a sin and then like wise it is a sin to cause someone to feel shame. She also claims that saving sex ruined her marriage but she didn't save it for marriage.
That passage from Romans 1 is always very chilling to me, it reminds me that I have to make sure that I'm not allowing my pride and hubris lead me away from the Truth.
Every law that ever existed is "anti-choice" - it takes away my otherwise free choice to do a social evil (murder, theft, rape, holding slaves etc). There's nothing wrong with a law being anti-choice because that's what laws are meant for.
take "Catholic" pro-choice arguments and exchange "right to choose/abortion" for "slavery" and see how far you get and why it sounds so ridiculous to faithful Catholics.
By daring his bishop to deny him participation in the sacraments, Congressman Ted Liu is, in effect, saying to him: "In lieu of enforcing Canon Law, I demand that you permit me unreservedly to make sacrilegious communions that will further fan the flames that await me, either in Hell or Purgatory. Now go sit on the loo and think about that or else listen to Louie Louie by the Kingsmen."
@@Arcticroberto9376 God is also: (Ezekiel 18:31-32) "Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel? For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies-oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!"
6 Tactics of Pro-choice (pro-abortion) Catholic Politicians: 3:09 #1: They double-down on being Catholic. 4:46 #2: "I can't impose my views." 11:35 #3: Complaining about double standards. 14:28 #4: Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion. 20:11 #5: "God gave us free will." 21:26 #6: Abuse the rights of conscience.
"I dare you to do X" is a vehement request for you to do X. Rep Lieu is literally asking the Church to deny him holy communion. If the Church were to do it, She would simply be doing what he so passionately requested.
This subject stirs up so much anger in me. You know this is a slippery slope. Who is next? The elderly or disabled. The evil that drives this is very strong. We must keep praying for this world to be healed.
You should read up on euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide. The elderly and terminally ill have been on the list for a very long time. Read Wesley J. Smith's "Forced Exit."
There’s a country in Europe (can’t remember which though maybe it’s in the northern part) that boasted they had no Down Syndrome kids being born or that the rate was going down. The reason: parents were told the child had strong indicators for being born with Down Syndrome so the parents aborted their babies “to save the child pain and avoid the strain the parents would have to endure.” 😢 I’m not saying taking care of disabled/special needs children is easy at all, but kids aren’t in general and it’s quite a dangerous road to go down. Not too long ago, abortion was forced upon Chinese mothers who had “too many” kids already and was often used to abort girls. Cut to the present and Chinese men have hardly any women to court and untold numbers of girls are no longer there or had to be adopted to other countries to save their lives.
It’s Iceland who has no children born with Down syndrome. A lot of countries with universal healthcare have a high abortion rate for Down syndrome. In the UK, you can abort up until birth for “serious defects” but it’s not defined what that means. I remember reading about a baby who was aborted at 39 weeks for a cleft palate, a condition that can be corrected with surgery. 39 weeks. All my kids were born during my 38th week of pregnancy.
@@EpoRose1 that sounds right and it would not surprise me that “serious defects” is not readily defined. Easier to justify abortion for any ‘medical reason.’ Speaking of the UK, wasn’t there a baby born with a rare medical condition that the NHS refused to further treat and encouraged the parents to euthanize? I know President Trump offered to fly the boy and his family on his own dime to a hospital willing to try an experimental surgery, along with the Vatican and some other countries. But the UK denied them that chance and the boy ended up dying. Not saying he would have had survived the surgery or live a long life, but the UK medical board refusing the parents’ choices like that is so dangerous! My older brother was a premie who a nurse said would never make it, now he’s a healthy adult that farms. It infuriates my dad to this day at what she said. Younger brother nearly died in the womb and besides a small stutter (as in actual stutter, not a Biden Gaff) is healthy. This was over 20-30 years ago in a smallish town clinic. The advances made in medicine, surgery, and human understanding is exponential! Why parents think aborting their baby based on the chance they could be born ‘defective’ boggles my mind. I won’t be surprised when “custom babies” become a thing, just disappointed in what we have become as a society 😢
*#2 "I can't impose my views"* A rebuttal to this that isn't mentioned, but should be, is that there is one class of people who _necessarily_ are imposed upon in the most impactful of ways by laws defending abortion "rights", yet have absolutely no voice of their own in the debate: _the unborn!_
@@duckmeat4674 no, not all laws impose anyone'a views, cuse not all laws bind. That is in turn because binding is not the only function, the other being protection. To put it into perspective, it's enough to note that law prohibiting religious practices and law protecting them are not equally imposing. People saying "I can't impose my views" know that in some places law ought to protect, not bind, even if that knowledge is only instinctive. In case of i.e abortion laws they know law should protect us from religion
@@duckmeat4674 yes, I did watch and this argument of yours is as bad now as it was then. I can't speak to personhood, let alone lawful status of an unborn child, because former is highly questionable, while latter is practically nonexistent. However, I don't have to convince anyone to mother being a full person. We could go around this issue, by adopting a prolife position, which is exceedingly stupid idea when trying to argue for said position, due to classic catch 22.
My conscience says 2 = 3. I understand the reflexive property which infallibly says that x=x creates tension with my conscience, but I have to go with my conscience at the end of the day.
For those who claims nobody knows when life starts, then if that’s so, we’d better err for life, not death. But everyone knows life start at time of fertilization. A zygote is a human being. Period. Why fool yourself?
Most would argue on suffering. We pull the plug on brain dead people all the time assuming they aren't there anymore in the same way an aborted fetus is considered to be not there.
@@jhoughjr1 but before being aborted that baby was there.😢 And brain dead people still have a soul there, that only God the Creator owns. Life and death is a mystery that need to be treated with dignity and respect. Regarding suffering, there’re two kinds: Wasted Suffering and Redemptive Suffering. Another mystery but we need to trust God. He knows better and love all his creatures.🙏♥️🙏
@@jhoughjr1 you do not understand the issue at all. Natural death proceeds from disconnecting artificial life support. Deliberately killing a human is murder
They all mock Gid and His Church by claiming to be Catholic then selectively and publicly contradict her teachings thereby putting themselves outside of her. P,us for these so called bishops to ignore their public statements where do they stand when we know Not to condemn error is to condone it and not to defend the truth is to suppress it.
Does anyone ever walk out of an abortion clinic with a smile on their face? If abortion wasn’t against moral law then why would the thought of doing it invoke such heavy heartedness? It often leaves psyche scarring or depression. How many women have children they love now but had considered abortion earlier and thank God they didn’t go through with it? Why would it invoke such feelings if it wasn’t inherently the wrong choice?
We're not far away from that exact outcome, people are becoming more and more morally inept and now grotesque situations like public celebrations for abortions are being pushed into the mainstream
@@RamManNo1 The bishop of New York failed to excommunicate Cuomo after he threw a parade in front of the empire state building which was lit in pink to celebrate the legalization of late term and partial birth abortion.
One of the things I believe every layman (including politicians and us normal, everyday peons) is missing about this whole "denying communion" is that this is more of an act of mercy. The bishops would be protecting their sheep by preventing them from drinking judgment unto themselves! This is not an act of denial but an act of protection!
Hey, Trent Horn. I am sorry if this comes out the wrong way, but I believe the pro-life people im the US should call the other side of the discussion for what they are: Not pro-choice, but pro-abortion. By accepting their euphemistic term, you are already collaborating with them in softing the issue up, even if your beliefs go in the opposite direction.
It seems reasonable to use the terms they want in order not to poisen the well. It will lead to more people changing their minds and hearts, and is much more charitable. Note that this is different than using someones "pronouns" when the pronouns would make us lie. Using the term "pro-choice" is not a lie. It's simply another and more charible way to state their position. No need to have more conflict on this point as there are many other, more important disagreements with the pro-choice crowd we need to get to.
@@cosmiccatholic2838 I will have to disagree with you there. That is not being charitable at all. I am all for having a polite and civil discussion, but that should be predicated on truth. That being said, putting the discussion of inocent human life in second place to a sof term as "woman's choice" is addering to an euristic and disonest stance on your opponent. No one that is actually sensible to the issue should pander to that. The way I see it, being charitable is not always the same being pleasant and smooth talking, even more so if you are discussing if something is murder or not. Also, the poison the well doesn't apply, as it is not the intent to disprove what they say based on the use of the right term. It is just stating how it is. The whole discussion can still happen with all honesty. I feel you may mistaking charity for human respect, and those are two different and sometimes opposite things.
@@thomazprimoalves7025 the problem is tha using a "you are pro abortion" and going all-out 9 times out of 10 is useless or would just anger a person, also it helps very little with the discussion And saying pro-choice is not wrong or a lie, they believe that a woman should choose to have an abortion. I see nothing wrong with how they identify themselves, even if the "choice" itself is wrong
@@royalsoldierofdrangleic4577 Although this is an interesting subject, this will be my last reply on the topic. Otherwise this will never end. Well, if you truly believe they are right on calling it "a choice", my point still stands firmly. It would be escandalous, for example, to even accept beginning a discussion on "the morality of rape" by calling it "a choice", even if it is by the part of the rapist. If you accept something similar on the issue of killing of a baby in it's mothers womb, you are already losing. No one should aim for being pleasant above being honest. I won't go in an endless loop over this issue, as there are many sides to it, but I do still believe that your reasoning is wrong, and that it serves, in the end, as proof of a succesful manipulation on the other side of the discussion on softing the terms, changing the subject and going on a tangent on the issue of abortion. You can't respond disonesty with flattery and acceptance of an opponents terminology. Tone and urgency are also a part of a discussion, and no one would accept an calm discussion over "was the holocaust wrong?" or "Is rape really that bad?". The way you treat an issue is sometimes as important as the arguments you propose foward or against it. See the concept of Overton Window to understand where I am going with this. If you want an counter-example to the american experience: here in Brazil, where I live, we have severely more strict laws on abortion than probably any the states of the US, and the term used in the discussion is always Abortion, not "choice". If I was a willing to bet, I would guess that if you really dig the cronology of the issue, the use of the term 《choice》 came way before the regulation of abortion, not later. You could infere how it helped on the authorization of abortion from there. But than again, this is a really deep discussion that won't be solved on a youtube comment section. I just hope you can now see my whole point. God Bless!
@@thomazprimoalves7025 Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think referring to someone as Pro-Choice is valid. You are right that human respect and charity don't always line up, but this would be a case where they do. Pro-choice already carries a known meaning in our culture (the view that women have the choice to abort her baby) so using the term already carries with it all the needed weight without, as I said, poiesening the well by calling them something they don't wish to be called. Sometimes compromise on these minor issues is okay, and even prudent (notice I said minor issues). It would be like a protestant calling me (a Catholic) a "Papist". This is obviously a derogatory term in most circles, as it refers to someone who will just do whatever the Pope says or something like that. They could say that they will use thee term because "it's just the truth", but that would not incline me to listen to them as it would make me think they are more interested in scoring points than truth (same if someone referred to me as a "heretic" instead of a catholic) I will stress again that "Pro-choice" is not a lie, as it clearly means, in our culture, someone who thinks women should have the right to kill their baby. It implies evil things already. If we want to win people over with truth and charity, as long as we don't compromise our core values, there is no trouble.
The second argument calls into question the point of laws in general. What are doing but enforcing your views on others when you regulate, say, the exploitation of minors in the workforce?
Great video! Enjoying your content. Keep up the good work! Happy subscriber Oh.. and I still hear Sara Gonzales’ rendition of Nancy Pelosi every time I see NP’s drunk face.
The Mario cumo strategy is a personal favorite. However If I was him I would have probably Said something more of like it’s a settled constitutional issue and it’s not up to me because of my oath to uphold the constitution. That is a similar deflection but I think it works better since it makes it an issue out of your hands.
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
Thanks for bringing light to this problem once again trend! It is disheartening. I am a Hindu considering Catholicism. What are you do a part two of this episode discussing catholic politicians that are actually doing the right thing? They can be Democrat or Republican but I think it’s important to have positive examples and some hope.
Great idea. But a difficult one. To find a devout catholic politician... I live in Brazil, the largest Catholic country in the world and can't remember of a single truly catholic politician. There are several protestants, though. But protestantism comes with looser moral rules...
@@marianafaria6960 I don’t think that they are perfect examples but there are definitely some who are doing better job than others. Great point by the way.
It used to be possible to be a faithful Catholic and a Democrat, and maybe one day it will be again, but right now, Democrats impose demands that are incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
@@TheAaronChand Ny Hindu heritage is very important to me however I discovered the Catholic tradition in college and it spoke to me. Social teachings are difficult but beautiful. Great question. I don’t feel like I have anything to lose.
Obviously these people have absolutely no clue what the Church teaches. Wonder how many have ever heard of a book called The Cathechism of the Catholic Church.
Well some are i myself am against the death penalty but i see valid arguments for the death penalty as well so i mostly keep out of debates about it and choose the safe route ans say no to it. Mostly because i understand that the death penalty is a punnishment i also believe in repenting for the criminal
I think an additional reason to make a strong stand is also to preach to the future. What if in the future, people actually come to believe that abortion is a terrible thing. Might they then blame the church for not taking enough of a stand? Tell me this wouldn't happen.
Ensoulment....I would also reason that based on the Church's dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ensoulment takes place at the moment of conception. After all, how can Mary be Immaculately conceived, i.e. free from original sin, if her soul wasn't present at the moment of conception? Original sin is present in the soul, no?
You should do a video with Brenda from God is Grey who you showed in the video. She is cool with talking to people who disagree- probably not a debate but just a conversation would be awesome.
@@denniswakabayashi4199 He mentioned something about the soul imparted when we are embodied. The zygote split would happen before that. The zygote is not exactly the person anymore than the sperm is. It really doesn't matter though as the existence of a soul is not part of the argument that you are killing a human when they are the most defenseless for reasons of personal convenience. That is why I think the self defense line is a batter pro choice argument. It keeps clear that what is pertinent is when is it justified to kill a human. If someone could time travel to kill a leader before they were born, they would still be killing that person. Just because we are not time traveling to do it, you are still killing a person. I personally dont think abortion should be illegal, just as killing in self defense is not illegal, or in times of war. Abortion wouldn't be an issue were it not for the massive decline in sexual morality the west. Even if we could magically prevent all abortions starting tomorrow, if the underlying moral failing is not rectified it will just continue to get worse.
@@jhoughjr1 I know the normal zygote is not a human being because of inherent ability to twin. Don't know exactly what you are saying about ensoulment? Was there one or two souls in the single zygote?
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife recognizes the woman's absolute right to procure an abortion by any means since no one is crying to jail or execute women who abort AND all anti-abortion legislation crafted by the Prolife always give absolute immunity to the woman. Where the Prolife make their fight is attempting to take away the doctor's choice of having women who want to abort as patients. Criminalize and punish the doctor but never the woman. The woman is free to take abortion pills, homemade concoction, use the proverbial coat hanger, go horse back riding, play tackle football, starve yourself, etc. to induce a miscarriage all perfectly legal to the Prolife. OK for the woman to self abort but not ok for the doctor to assist with abortion. Not really anti-abortion but anti-doctor anti-safe abortion.
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife acknowledges "my body my choice" but they some how think they can force women to give birth by taking away the doctor's choice.
We have been given free will so that we may freely love and reflect the image we were created in, that being God's image. My dear friends if a week goes by and you have not been challenged by your faith, you're either living on a deserted island or you're just not living it.
I have brought up the soul before in discussion. Because if it is unclear when the soul is stitched to the flesh by the Holy Spirit how can we ever be sure it would be a right practice. Usually the conversation leads to the prochoice person admitting that they have no soul and that's how they justify it.
All I can say 139. You formed my inward parts. You have covered me in my mother's womb.... You knew me before I was born. Now how beautiful is that.... He KNEW YOU.... and then you get killed before you can get to know Him.........
“I’m vegan but I eat meat… I dare you to revoke my membership with PETA” 😂 I love Trent’s analogies. They’re always spot on
I am vegetarian (not quite vegan). I think other people should be free to eat meat, even though I believe it to be a moral abomination. I don't think PETA should expel me for that.
@neil allen The Catholic church has done a lot to fight that issue and has continuously condemned such actions. Stop pretending like that issue has not addressed.
Boom 💥
@neil allen Mind explaining the logic behind your interpretation of Mt 18:6-14? I'm really not sure how you've arrived at the conclusions you've stated based on the scripture passage you provided
Jesus does (roughly) say it would be better for pedophiles to receive millstone necklaces, but it doesn't prescribe that Christians round up pedophiles and strap millstones around their neck. That said, I agree with you that pedophilia in all institutions, from youth sports programs, daycares, classrooms, and even the Church should be dealt with more decisively than it has in the past; society has failed us in this regard and I'm proud of the steps the Church has made in the last few decades to amend this wrong
I'll pray for you, friend. You're casting the image of Satan on others without properly discerning their faith or beliefs, be careful to not let that sever your charity toward others
Great, i bought the wrong shoes, ate a hot dog and now I am getting kicked out of PETA.
"I wEnT tO cAtHoLiC sChOoL." -A Catholic who has obviously studied and practiced Church doctrine
not even a minute in and Trent is laying down truth bombs
@neil allen, the "truth bomb" I'm referring to is Trent's critique of pro-choice politicians accusing the catholic bishops for being, well, catholic. Are you implying, that unless he mentions other causes of suffering and death in the world, he shouldn't have said that? Or even made this video, for that matter?
@neil allen Do you post that fact on every RUclips channel addressing a social ill. Is BLM or the Susan G Komen Foundation a bunch of frauds because they don't address world hunger?
@neil allen What does that have to do with anything?
@neil allen Neil not in America and we are talking about American stats and the amount of people that starve to death in America is extremely low compared to the babies that are aborted in America .
If people saved themselves for marriage we wouldn’t have the abortion problem .
@@CopyPaste88 arnas but still we need to call out the death penalty on the same fervor as abortion but Ted lieu instead of admitting that his views on abortion are absolutely wrong and in support of murder he worries about other people’s grave sins .
Both democrats and republicans are hypocrites .
The democrats are mostly ok with killing innocent babies and the republicans could car less about the poor and homeless .
"I refuse to impose my beliefs on others" is a strange claim coming from a career politician. Isn't that his job by passing and enforcing laws?
YES! This is the WORST FREAKING ARGUMENT I have ever heard against pro life laws! ALL LAWS impose someone's beliefs on other people!
And thank God they do!
Its the Anarchist view, or anyone who is pro-freedom.
@@MasterKeyMagic lel. How about laws against mass murder? Should those be repealed too? I think sense all anarchists hate laws so much, none should protect them.
@@MasterKeyMagic Many pro-freedom people try to impose their beliefs on others. Ex. Many would try to pass a law saying that murder should be illegal.
@@kenanthompson2075 By default you can't be pro-freedom and vote in a dictatorship of the majority. "Pro-freedom people" are left-libertarians where the only rule is controlling others is wrong and doing so allows for the controlled any degree of retaliation against he who trys to control others. Its a volunteer society.
I had no idea Cardinal Arinzi had such a sharp sense of humor. He's brilliant!!
Amen, thank you for your faith and courage in what you do Trent.
Saw Rep Lieu's tweet, got annoyed, clicked it, saw Trent responded, no longer annoyed. Thank you Trent.
bUt ThE dEaTh PeNaLtY tHo. As if the pope himself in the papal states hasn't enacted the death penalty
@@Arcticroberto9376 seems like you’re demonstrating one of the 6 tactics of Pro-Choice Catholics. Based on Trent’s video, i respond: let’s ban all pope’s that lead government executions from communion. If we do that, do you agree that politicians that support the expansion and funding of legalized abortion should be disallowed from the holy sacrament?
"I dare you to deny me Holy Communion"
Ted Lieu is basically testing God. The priest is an Altar Christus and to dare them to withhold the Eucharist is a form of Pride. Good luck Ted. God resists the proud.
Introduction
3:09 Double-down on being Catholic
4:46 "I can't impose my views"
11:36 Complaining about double-standards
14:28 Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion
20:11 "God gave us free will"
24:07 Misinterpreting Scripture (Coming soon...)
@The Counsel of Trent, putting a timeline on your description can really help to go over some of the concepts/conversational tips provided. Thank you very much for all your work.
Agree that this will be very helpful
should've used Roman numerals lol
Thanks. Very helpful for quick review
That's crazy, no one can fool God, He knows what is in everyone's heart.
We’re so fortunate to have Trent Horn, Catholic Answers, Pints with Aquinas etc to keep us within the bounds of Catholic teaching. They’re teaching us how to reach salvation with great clarity. Pray that Catholic brothers and sisters find a way to learn what the Church actually teaches like we get to do here
How to be Christian is good too.
No we are not lucky to have Pins with Aquinas. Fradd is a radtrad.
Ya gotta love that Cardinal Arinze clip. 😂
People that shocked me after I realized they're "Catholic"
- Biden
- pelosi
- Lieu
- fr James martin
AOC
@@JJ-zr6fu
Cortez is a sore point for me, besides the fact she's Puerto Rican there isn't even a single trivia point about her that's Christian, let alone Catholic and she keeps hammering this home all the time, she considers herself shepardic jewish too but praises pope Francis over some midwit interpretation about amoris laetitia, etc.
It's patently aware she's an atheist, why even go through the pageantry of pretending she's Catholic? I don't get it
@@Qwerty-jy9mj she’s pandering. She will be whatever religion is the flavor of the week. She’s “Jewish” so she can criticize Israel, she’s “Catholic” so she can praise a misinterpretation of the Pope. If an Imam comes out and says that socialism is the cure for everything, she’ll say she’s Muslim. Not a genuine bone in that woman’s body.
I know a young gay neighbor who is everyday in the church praying the Rosary. Doesn't miss Holy Mass but he died of AIDS in his late 20s.
A person could call himself a giraffe but that doesn’t make it so. Maybe these folks that you’ve listed USE their Catholicism when it’s convenient. They shut it down when inconvenient truth rears it’s head.
I often find that taking their arguments and applying the logic to other things - with respect and humility - is effective. That's why i like your stuff, Trent.
Thank you Trent. You always give down to earth and clear reasons for defending our Faith. Love the Cardinals explanation of “not imposing my views on others”. That was brilliant. Like your questions about death penalty brings it home. You are a God- send.👏🏻
Thank you Trent for explaining this clearly. We need to inform the ignorant. 🙏🏼
Im Catholic but I would still be vehemently pro life even as an atheist. Killing a helpless innocent creature is an abomination against not only God but against nature. I can see the other side of most arguments but I just cant get there on this issue.
Anytime I hear any Catholic start with “I’m Catholic, but [insert something completely contrary to Church teaching]”, I immediately want to help them understand! Sometimes their views are shaped out of misinformation or they barely have a rudimentary understanding of their faith.
In regards to Pro-choice Catholics, it’s rarely due to lack of knowledge but willful ignorance. They know why the Church teaches what it does and can easily look up extra info, but they've become too ingrained in secular culture and brainwashed into thinking the Church is “old-fashioned and nothing but old, controlling man!”
So sad that people choose to live in ignorance rather than learn Truth. 😢 I always try to pray a rosary for those souls and try to live my life in accordance to God’s will.
Yes, it is so saddening. No wonder why Francisco said, "God is so sad. If only I could console him !" Let us continue to pray with mother Mary and offer her our rosary prayers for all politicians
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
@@NathanLongacre-jo6cx No in both cases, but believing the federal government has no right to ban anything is a ludicrous position. Should something like murder or rape not be banned nationwide?
@@anonymousdontbotheraboutit2895 Murder and rape should be illegal, and it should be illegal on the state level
US Président and Catholic congress men and women have their responsibilities and guilty position towards millions of unborned deads from the threath of prochoice clearly presented with your statement. Tank you so much Trent Horn.
Two thumbs up on all your arguments !! Keep up the good work.
Great apologetics Trent! Like the use of current examples of public figures stating their beliefs on both sides.
Very practical. Keep up the good work. Ave Maria!
Excellent breakdown of how the pro-choice politicians justify being Catholic . . . the video clip of the Cardinal's example with Congress was awesome! We need to pray for these pro-choice politicians as well as confront them. They are wrong! Amen!
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
We must also ask about the similarity between death penalty and abortion when they twist things up to confuse us (pro lifers) by asking "why do you support Death penalty ?"
Regardless of what answer they give they're gonna be inconsistent and fail the argument .
"I DARE you" kinda reminds me of little Greta T. "How DARE you." Makes you just want to throw up.
I’m so thankful for your ability to explain things in plain language. 💕
I’m not a Catholic (Still a Christian though)
but I still know that life begins at conception because it’s just a fact.
You can also just bypass the argument of religious duty. If you believe the teachings of the Catholic Church, you believe the unborn child is an innocent human life. As a politician, you have a duty to protect those lives
God is Grey (21:10) is hardly christian her basis for a sin is if it causes you to feel shame so literally if you don't feel shame then its not a sin and then like wise it is a sin to cause someone to feel shame. She also claims that saving sex ruined her marriage but she didn't save it for marriage.
"I went to Catholic school my whole life" is peak Dunning-Krueger effect. I can't remember if I've said it here or not, but it's still true.
He’s already been denied Holy Communion.
He’s committing sacrilege at this point.
Thanks, Trent.
Once again, the luv of God filled my soul.
May everyone be touched by God, just like Zacchaeus. 🙏🏻
“I went to Catholic school my whole life”. I don’t know what they’ve taught in our Catholic schools the past fifty years, but it doesn’t look good.
Thank you for this. God bless!
thank you so much for sharing! great points, I learned so much!
Trent, I'm impressed with the content here. Keep it up!
That passage from Romans 1 is always very chilling to me, it reminds me that I have to make sure that I'm not allowing my pride and hubris lead me away from the Truth.
Great video, Trent! My only critique is that Paul Ryan was the vice presidential candidate in 2012, not 2008.
Every law that ever existed is "anti-choice" - it takes away my otherwise free choice to do a social evil (murder, theft, rape, holding slaves etc). There's nothing wrong with a law being anti-choice because that's what laws are meant for.
take "Catholic" pro-choice arguments and exchange "right to choose/abortion" for "slavery" and see how far you get and why it sounds so ridiculous to faithful Catholics.
By daring his bishop to deny him participation in the sacraments, Congressman Ted Liu is, in effect, saying to him: "In lieu of enforcing Canon Law, I demand that you permit me unreservedly to make sacrilegious communions that will further fan the flames that await me, either in Hell or Purgatory. Now go sit on the loo and think about that or else listen to Louie Louie by the Kingsmen."
Purgatory is very optimistic
@@Arcticroberto9376 God is also: (Ezekiel 18:31-32) "Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel? For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies-oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!"
Thanks for the apologetics lesson. It will be useful.
Trent is pumping out the content. It's all great.
6 Tactics of Pro-choice (pro-abortion) Catholic Politicians:
3:09 #1: They double-down on being Catholic.
4:46 #2: "I can't impose my views."
11:35 #3: Complaining about double standards.
14:28 #4: Focus on ensoulment instead of abortion.
20:11 #5: "God gave us free will."
21:26 #6: Abuse the rights of conscience.
Wow - Saki couldn’t get away from that question fast enough.
Ted Lieu should be sent back to CCD and buy a copy of the Catholic Catechism.
thanks, Trent, lots of good stuff going on here
"I dare you to do X" is a vehement request for you to do X. Rep Lieu is literally asking the Church to deny him holy communion. If the Church were to do it, She would simply be doing what he so passionately requested.
Excellent points!
This subject stirs up so much anger in me. You know this is a slippery slope. Who is next? The elderly or disabled. The evil that drives this is very strong. We must keep praying for this world to be healed.
You should read up on euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide. The elderly and terminally ill have been on the list for a very long time. Read Wesley J. Smith's "Forced Exit."
Already happening in Canada
There’s a country in Europe (can’t remember which though maybe it’s in the northern part) that boasted they had no Down Syndrome kids being born or that the rate was going down. The reason: parents were told the child had strong indicators for being born with Down Syndrome so the parents aborted their babies “to save the child pain and avoid the strain the parents would have to endure.” 😢 I’m not saying taking care of disabled/special needs children is easy at all, but kids aren’t in general and it’s quite a dangerous road to go down.
Not too long ago, abortion was forced upon Chinese mothers who had “too many” kids already and was often used to abort girls. Cut to the present and Chinese men have hardly any women to court and untold numbers of girls are no longer there or had to be adopted to other countries to save their lives.
It’s Iceland who has no children born with Down syndrome. A lot of countries with universal healthcare have a high abortion rate for Down syndrome. In the UK, you can abort up until birth for “serious defects” but it’s not defined what that means. I remember reading about a baby who was aborted at 39 weeks for a cleft palate, a condition that can be corrected with surgery. 39 weeks. All my kids were born during my 38th week of pregnancy.
@@EpoRose1 that sounds right and it would not surprise me that “serious defects” is not readily defined. Easier to justify abortion for any ‘medical reason.’
Speaking of the UK, wasn’t there a baby born with a rare medical condition that the NHS refused to further treat and encouraged the parents to euthanize? I know President Trump offered to fly the boy and his family on his own dime to a hospital willing to try an experimental surgery, along with the Vatican and some other countries. But the UK denied them that chance and the boy ended up dying. Not saying he would have had survived the surgery or live a long life, but the UK medical board refusing the parents’ choices like that is so dangerous!
My older brother was a premie who a nurse said would never make it, now he’s a healthy adult that farms. It infuriates my dad to this day at what she said. Younger brother nearly died in the womb and besides a small stutter (as in actual stutter, not a Biden Gaff) is healthy. This was over 20-30 years ago in a smallish town clinic.
The advances made in medicine, surgery, and human understanding is exponential! Why parents think aborting their baby based on the chance they could be born ‘defective’ boggles my mind. I won’t be surprised when “custom babies” become a thing, just disappointed in what we have become as a society 😢
Denying them the Eucharist is for their own good!
I am adoptive mom and life is precious
*#2 "I can't impose my views"* A rebuttal to this that isn't mentioned, but should be, is that there is one class of people who _necessarily_ are imposed upon in the most impactful of ways by laws defending abortion "rights", yet have absolutely no voice of their own in the debate: _the unborn!_
the point being?
@@Mish844 all laws impose the politicians belief on people. Just because its not religious doesnt mean it doesnt haooen
@@duckmeat4674 no, not all laws impose anyone'a views, cuse not all laws bind. That is in turn because binding is not the only function, the other being protection. To put it into perspective, it's enough to note that law prohibiting religious practices and law protecting them are not equally imposing.
People saying "I can't impose my views" know that in some places law ought to protect, not bind, even if that knowledge is only instinctive. In case of i.e abortion laws they know law should protect us from religion
@@Mish844 abortion law is terrible example because then you are imposing the law on the unborn. Watch the video first
@@duckmeat4674 yes, I did watch and this argument of yours is as bad now as it was then. I can't speak to personhood, let alone lawful status of an unborn child, because former is highly questionable, while latter is practically nonexistent.
However, I don't have to convince anyone to mother being a full person. We could go around this issue, by adopting a prolife position, which is exceedingly stupid idea when trying to argue for said position, due to classic catch 22.
This reminds me of slavery, although successive Popes taught against Chattel slavery, many Catholics, including clergy, ignored the teaching.
You should put more stuff in your video descriptions. It's free real estate. Links to your website for a newsletter sign up etc.
Excellent overview. Thank you.
Well, at least we know where Biden, Pelosi, and AOC are going some day.
Trent, you are the best.
This is probably the most viewed video I’ve ever seen without any dislikes
It’s scary how these politicians can be overtly senseless. Sacred Heart of Jesus have mercy on us. Immaculately Heart of Mary pray for us.
You got the heretic God Is Grey in the video lol Trent is the goat
I hope trent reacts to her videos. Its crazy she has a huge influence
Amazing content 👍
Bro what happened with the camera?😂
God bless you ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
I don't understand. If they're in complete opposite direction of the Catholic doctrine, why not just leave already?
How come the Vatican don't kick them out?
My conscience says 2 = 3. I understand the reflexive property which infallibly says that x=x creates tension with my conscience, but I have to go with my conscience at the end of the day.
For those who claims nobody knows when life starts, then if that’s so, we’d better err for life, not death. But everyone knows life start at time of fertilization. A zygote is a human being. Period. Why fool yourself?
Most would argue on suffering. We pull the plug on brain dead people all the time assuming they aren't there anymore in the same way an aborted fetus is considered to be not there.
@@jhoughjr1 but before being aborted that baby was there.😢 And brain dead people still have a soul there, that only God the Creator owns. Life and death is a mystery that need to be treated with dignity and respect. Regarding suffering, there’re two kinds: Wasted Suffering and Redemptive Suffering. Another mystery but we need to trust God. He knows better and love all his creatures.🙏♥️🙏
@@xiomarablanco6516 Where is the campaign to keep people on life-support?
Because they WANT a different outcome than the truth
@@jhoughjr1 you do not understand the issue at all. Natural death proceeds from disconnecting artificial life support. Deliberately killing a human is murder
They all mock Gid and His Church by claiming to be Catholic then selectively and publicly contradict her teachings thereby putting themselves outside of her. P,us for these so called bishops to ignore their public statements where do they stand when we know Not to condemn error is to condone it and not to defend the truth is to suppress it.
Does anyone ever walk out of an abortion clinic with a smile on their face? If abortion wasn’t against moral law then why would the thought of doing it invoke such heavy heartedness? It often leaves psyche scarring or depression. How many women have children they love now but had considered abortion earlier and thank God they didn’t go through with it? Why would it invoke such feelings if it wasn’t inherently the wrong choice?
We're not far away from that exact outcome, people are becoming more and more morally inept and now grotesque situations like public celebrations for abortions are being pushed into the mainstream
Qwerty Well I hope not. That would be just plain psychotic. Feeling guilt at least shows you are human. Glorifying the deed would be straight up evil
@@RamManNo1
The bishop of New York failed to excommunicate Cuomo after he threw a parade in front of the empire state building which was lit in pink to celebrate the legalization of late term and partial birth abortion.
The nerve of these people.
Only trying to get a response
Thank God for Catholic apologists like you, Trent. Thank you. Thank you. 🙏
One of the things I believe every layman (including politicians and us normal, everyday peons) is missing about this whole "denying communion" is that this is more of an act of mercy.
The bishops would be protecting their sheep by preventing them from drinking judgment unto themselves!
This is not an act of denial but an act of protection!
Psalm 139:15
My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Hey, Trent Horn. I am sorry if this comes out the wrong way, but I believe the pro-life people im the US should call the other side of the discussion for what they are: Not pro-choice, but pro-abortion. By accepting their euphemistic term, you are already collaborating with them in softing the issue up, even if your beliefs go in the opposite direction.
It seems reasonable to use the terms they want in order not to poisen the well. It will lead to more people changing their minds and hearts, and is much more charitable. Note that this is different than using someones "pronouns" when the pronouns would make us lie. Using the term "pro-choice" is not a lie. It's simply another and more charible way to state their position. No need to have more conflict on this point as there are many other, more important disagreements with the pro-choice crowd we need to get to.
@@cosmiccatholic2838 I will have to disagree with you there. That is not being charitable at all. I am all for having a polite and civil discussion, but that should be predicated on truth. That being said, putting the discussion of inocent human life in second place to a sof term as "woman's choice" is addering to an euristic and disonest stance on your opponent. No one that is actually sensible to the issue should pander to that. The way I see it, being charitable is not always the same being pleasant and smooth talking, even more so if you are discussing if something is murder or not. Also, the poison the well doesn't apply, as it is not the intent to disprove what they say based on the use of the right term. It is just stating how it is. The whole discussion can still happen with all honesty.
I feel you may mistaking charity for human respect, and those are two different and sometimes opposite things.
@@thomazprimoalves7025 the problem is tha using a "you are pro abortion" and going all-out 9 times out of 10 is useless or would just anger a person, also it helps very little with the discussion
And saying pro-choice is not wrong or a lie, they believe that a woman should choose to have an abortion. I see nothing wrong with how they identify themselves, even if the "choice" itself is wrong
@@royalsoldierofdrangleic4577
Although this is an interesting subject, this will be my last reply on the topic. Otherwise this will never end.
Well, if you truly believe they are right on calling it "a choice", my point still stands firmly. It would be escandalous, for example, to even accept beginning a discussion on "the morality of rape" by calling it "a choice", even if it is by the part of the rapist. If you accept something similar on the issue of killing of a baby in it's mothers womb, you are already losing.
No one should aim for being pleasant above being honest. I won't go in an endless loop over this issue, as there are many sides to it, but I do still believe that your reasoning is wrong, and that it serves, in the end, as proof of a succesful manipulation on the other side of the discussion on softing the terms, changing the subject and going on a tangent on the issue of abortion. You can't respond disonesty with flattery and acceptance of an opponents terminology. Tone and urgency are also a part of a discussion, and no one would accept an calm discussion over "was the holocaust wrong?" or "Is rape really that bad?". The way you treat an issue is sometimes as important as the arguments you propose foward or against it. See the concept of Overton Window to understand where I am going with this.
If you want an counter-example to the american experience: here in Brazil, where I live, we have severely more strict laws on abortion than probably any the states of the US, and the term used in the discussion is always Abortion, not "choice". If I was a willing to bet, I would guess that if you really dig the cronology of the issue, the use of the term 《choice》 came way before the regulation of abortion, not later. You could infere how it helped on the authorization of abortion from there.
But than again, this is a really deep discussion that won't be solved on a youtube comment section. I just hope you can now see my whole point.
God Bless!
@@thomazprimoalves7025 Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think referring to someone as Pro-Choice is valid. You are right that human respect and charity don't always line up, but this would be a case where they do. Pro-choice already carries a known meaning in our culture (the view that women have the choice to abort her baby) so using the term already carries with it all the needed weight without, as I said, poiesening the well by calling them something they don't wish to be called. Sometimes compromise on these minor issues is okay, and even prudent (notice I said minor issues).
It would be like a protestant calling me (a Catholic) a "Papist". This is obviously a derogatory term in most circles, as it refers to someone who will just do whatever the Pope says or something like that. They could say that they will use thee term because "it's just the truth", but that would not incline me to listen to them as it would make me think they are more interested in scoring points than truth (same if someone referred to me as a "heretic" instead of a catholic) I will stress again that "Pro-choice" is not a lie, as it clearly means, in our culture, someone who thinks women should have the right to kill their baby. It implies evil things already. If we want to win people over with truth and charity, as long as we don't compromise our core values, there is no trouble.
Taking the Holy Eucharist in a state of sin, invalidates the sacrament and is a sacrilege.
The second argument calls into question the point of laws in general. What are doing but enforcing your views on others when you regulate, say, the exploitation of minors in the workforce?
Great video! Enjoying your content. Keep up the good work! Happy subscriber
Oh.. and I still hear Sara Gonzales’ rendition of Nancy Pelosi every time I see NP’s drunk face.
The Mario cumo strategy is a personal favorite. However If I was him I would have probably Said something more of like it’s a settled constitutional issue and it’s not up to me because of my oath to uphold the constitution. That is a similar deflection but I think it works better since it makes it an issue out of your hands.
Total stud move calling that representative out.
Does it count as being “pro-choice” if I believe the federal government has no right to ban anything at all? Is it “pro-choice” if I want abortion banned in all 50 states, but insist it must be done by the state legislatures in all 50 states?
Thanks for bringing light to this problem once again trend! It is disheartening.
I am a Hindu considering Catholicism.
What are you do a part two of this episode discussing catholic politicians that are actually doing the right thing? They can be Democrat or Republican but I think it’s important to have positive examples and some hope.
Great idea. But a difficult one. To find a devout catholic politician... I live in Brazil, the largest Catholic country in the world and can't remember of a single truly catholic politician. There are several protestants, though. But protestantism comes with looser moral rules...
@@marianafaria6960 I don’t think that they are perfect examples but there are definitely some who are doing better job than others.
Great point by the way.
Why do you want to leave Hinduism for any Abrahamic religions
It used to be possible to be a faithful Catholic and a Democrat, and maybe one day it will be again, but right now, Democrats impose demands that are incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
@@TheAaronChand Ny Hindu heritage is very important to me however I discovered the Catholic tradition in college and it spoke to me.
Social teachings are difficult but beautiful. Great question.
I don’t feel like I have anything to lose.
I often use the sports team analogy... You say your are for this team but keeps cheering for their rival. But... The vegan analogy is way better.
Obviously these people have absolutely no clue what the Church teaches. Wonder how many have ever heard of a book called The Cathechism of the Catholic Church.
Is there any way I could give this video more than 1 like? Sooo good
Wait, Catholicism is against the death penalty???
But the Bible tells people to give the death penalty to some people!
Well some are i myself am against the death penalty but i see valid arguments for the death penalty as well so i mostly keep out of debates about it and choose the safe route ans say no to it. Mostly because i understand that the death penalty is a punnishment i also believe in repenting for the criminal
Just ask them the question: who are you first and foremost….Catholic or a pro abortion politician? Which one?? Choose? You can’t do both…
Don't use "pro choice". Call it what it is. Pro-abortion.
It isn't brave to...if it feels good, do it. It's brave to stand by a conviction...when being criticized.
I think an additional reason to make a strong stand is also to preach to the future. What if in the future, people actually come to believe that abortion is a terrible thing. Might they then blame the church for not taking enough of a stand? Tell me this wouldn't happen.
It is not likely, because pro-life activists tend to target lawmakers and abortion providers more than religious institutions.
"Claiming to be wise, they became fools." St Paul, YES🔥👏👏👏
Trent - So what about Bill Barr? Did I miss your response?
Free will...except when a business or non profit doesn't want to provide certain contraception in their employees health care plans.
Ensoulment....I would also reason that based on the Church's dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ensoulment takes place at the moment of conception. After all, how can Mary be Immaculately conceived, i.e. free from original sin, if her soul wasn't present at the moment of conception? Original sin is present in the soul, no?
You should do a video with Brenda from God is Grey who you showed in the video. She is cool with talking to people who disagree- probably not a debate but just a conversation would be awesome.
l am with you sir!
nice observation about the soul and on when it is imparted.
Didn't catch the part where a soul split into two souls when twinning as in identical twins who came from a single zygote.
@@denniswakabayashi4199 He mentioned something about the soul imparted when we are embodied. The zygote split would happen before that. The zygote is not exactly the person anymore than the sperm is.
It really doesn't matter though as the existence of a soul is not part of the argument that you are killing a human when they are the most defenseless for reasons of personal convenience.
That is why I think the self defense line is a batter pro choice argument. It keeps clear that what is pertinent is when is it justified to kill a human.
If someone could time travel to kill a leader before they were born, they would still be killing that person.
Just because we are not time traveling to do it, you are still killing a person.
I personally dont think abortion should be illegal, just as killing in self defense is not illegal, or in times of war.
Abortion wouldn't be an issue were it not for the massive decline in sexual morality the west.
Even if we could magically prevent all abortions starting tomorrow, if the underlying moral failing is not rectified it will just continue to get worse.
@@jhoughjr1 I know the normal zygote is not a human being because of inherent ability to twin. Don't know exactly what you are saying about ensoulment? Was there one or two souls in the single zygote?
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife recognizes the woman's absolute right to procure an abortion by any means since no one is crying to jail or execute women who abort AND all anti-abortion legislation crafted by the Prolife always give absolute immunity to the woman. Where the Prolife make their fight is attempting to take away the doctor's choice of having women who want to abort as patients. Criminalize and punish the doctor but never the woman. The woman is free to take abortion pills, homemade concoction, use the proverbial coat hanger, go horse back riding, play tackle football, starve yourself, etc. to induce a miscarriage all perfectly legal to the Prolife. OK for the woman to self abort but not ok for the doctor to assist with abortion. Not really anti-abortion but anti-doctor anti-safe abortion.
@@jhoughjr1 the Prolife acknowledges "my body my choice" but they some how think they can force women to give birth by taking away the doctor's choice.
Thomas More said "If I follow your conscience, will you follow me to hell"
It's sad to see all these people actively eating their own damnation... God have mercy on them and all of us.
Does anybody know of any up-to-date books that help with debating pro choicers?
Excellent
We have been given free will so that we may freely love and reflect the image we were created in, that being God's image. My dear friends if a week goes by and you have not been challenged by your faith, you're either living on a deserted island or you're just not living it.
I have brought up the soul before in discussion. Because if it is unclear when the soul is stitched to the flesh by the Holy Spirit how can we ever be sure it would be a right practice. Usually the conversation leads to the prochoice person admitting that they have no soul and that's how they justify it.
All I can say 139. You formed my inward parts. You have covered me in my mother's womb.... You knew me before I was born. Now how beautiful is that.... He KNEW YOU.... and then you get killed before you can get to know Him.........