I vividly remember King Felix in his prime, just like you said, sure-fire future HOFer at the time. His perfect game was a beautiful moment for baseball! Great video! Its always fun to make these appeals for players to be in the HoF. I genuinely appreciate your statistical approach
You can draw a line even more starkly. The start on June 1 2015 he was perfect through three innings (I was there on the third base line) and they didn’t close the roof when it started drizzling, but the rain really picked up and there was one pitch where he very obviously slipped on the mound. He gave up like three or four runs that inning, but it was clear watching his next few starts something was wrong. My wife even immediately saw something was wrong and she’s a casual fan. I did a quick review of his game log and damn…. It really does look like that one pitch might have ruined the rest of his career.
I agree. That comparison was really only there to enforce that ebWAR was not assuming everyone was playing in the same era, it actually just adjusts for era-driven factors than contribute to WAR.
I am Mariners fan, so I am super biased. That said, King Felix was easily one the best pitchers of his era. He just sadly played for chronically terrible Mariners teams (he has 0 postseason appearances). Again, I am super biased, but Hernandez is an easy Hall of Famer to me..... Thanks!
Felix was really something else, man. Every start he had you were keeping track so you could watch him. You never knew what masterpiece he'd create in any given start, although it was almost a lock that if he was facing the A's, he was going to shove and do something awesome. The night he had his last start was emotional. When he got tears, I got tears and thought of all the memories he gave us. All the kids wanted to be like King Felix. The closest pitcher that I've seen today that even comes close to his presence on the mound is Logan Gilbert.
i remember gilbert hitting 100 pretty consistently late in the season against the pirates. i feel like he is still insanely underrated esp with how far down the mound he throws
@TopElGabe23 Yes. He's very tall, studies a lot like Bryce, and has insane raw abilities. His presence on the mound reminds me of Felix the most. I'd actually be curious to see how he'd do with the split change that Felix threw. He already has a good out pitch to aim at Cal's feet, but I wonder how much successful evolution he can have.
war shouldn't be used for pitchers ever, or wins i think for the hof why not use accolades and awards like if a guy finishes top 3 in cy young in 10 different years should he not be a hof?
SP value seems to be approaching that of long relievers historically. If the latter category doesn't typically qualify for the HoF, why should the former? The ebWAR statistic may identify top starters in their respective eras, but positional or role quotas shouldn't be used as the basis for a player's inclusion in Cooperstown, which is what seems be argued for here by dumbing down the standards for selection. If today's SPs aren't elite studs in terms of the degree to which they now contribute to whether games are won or lost, they shouldn't be selected as Hall of Famers just because their stats are the best of what has regrettably become a less relevant peer group.
I believe the video argued that these pitchers bring the same talent level and ability, if not more, than the players of the past, but aren't afforded the opportunity to achieve the types of numbers of pitchers in the past. There isn't a quota being met, if anything we are set to see a significant decrease in SP being inducted into the HoF, so the argument here is to display the value of the modern pitcher.
Many many starting pitchers threw as hard as they do today guys like Randy Johnson Nolan Ryan Bob Gibson Tom Seaver Roger Clemens and on and on and on. Mostt statistics used to determine the value of somebody in baseball is just nerd speak. Also look at the full windup when you throw long enough you realize extension above your shoulders gives you a little bit less wear and tear.
Chris sale obvious Hall of fame? I don't think so. I don't really think hernandez is a hall of famer, but he'll prob get inducted. He definitely isn't a first ballot guy. I think he's just hall of really good.
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I vividly remember King Felix in his prime, just like you said, sure-fire future HOFer at the time. His perfect game was a beautiful moment for baseball!
Great video! Its always fun to make these appeals for players to be in the HoF. I genuinely appreciate your statistical approach
You can draw a line even more starkly. The start on June 1 2015 he was perfect through three innings (I was there on the third base line) and they didn’t close the roof when it started drizzling, but the rain really picked up and there was one pitch where he very obviously slipped on the mound.
He gave up like three or four runs that inning, but it was clear watching his next few starts something was wrong. My wife even immediately saw something was wrong and she’s a casual fan.
I did a quick review of his game log and damn…. It really does look like that one pitch might have ruined the rest of his career.
If Cy Young had modern medicine, training, coaching, and equipment, im willing to bet he would still be pretty good.
I agree. That comparison was really only there to enforce that ebWAR was not assuming everyone was playing in the same era, it actually just adjusts for era-driven factors than contribute to WAR.
@@Wilytics ebWAR seems like it emphasizes peak WAR over longevity, probably too much so
I think he'd have a 4.40 era with just a average 2 seam fastball n idk how good his secondary stuff was...some shit don't translate to different eras
The king should be in the hall of fame!
I am Mariners fan, so I am super biased. That said, King Felix was easily one the best pitchers of his era. He just sadly played for chronically terrible Mariners teams (he has 0 postseason appearances). Again, I am super biased, but Hernandez is an easy Hall of Famer to me..... Thanks!
Compelling argument. Nice video.
Felix was really something else, man. Every start he had you were keeping track so you could watch him. You never knew what masterpiece he'd create in any given start, although it was almost a lock that if he was facing the A's, he was going to shove and do something awesome. The night he had his last start was emotional. When he got tears, I got tears and thought of all the memories he gave us. All the kids wanted to be like King Felix.
The closest pitcher that I've seen today that even comes close to his presence on the mound is Logan Gilbert.
i remember gilbert hitting 100 pretty consistently late in the season against the pirates. i feel like he is still insanely underrated esp with how far down the mound he throws
@TopElGabe23 Yes. He's very tall, studies a lot like Bryce, and has insane raw abilities. His presence on the mound reminds me of Felix the most. I'd actually be curious to see how he'd do with the split change that Felix threw. He already has a good out pitch to aim at Cal's feet, but I wonder how much successful evolution he can have.
The Cy Young WAR/ebWAR disparity is wild!
war shouldn't be used for pitchers ever, or wins i think for the hof why not use accolades and awards like if a guy finishes top 3 in cy young in 10 different years should he not be a hof?
SP value seems to be approaching that of long relievers historically. If the latter category doesn't typically qualify for the HoF, why should the former? The ebWAR statistic may identify top starters in their respective eras, but positional or role quotas shouldn't be used as the basis for a player's inclusion in Cooperstown, which is what seems be argued for here by dumbing down the standards for selection. If today's SPs aren't elite studs in terms of the degree to which they now contribute to whether games are won or lost, they shouldn't be selected as Hall of Famers just because their stats are the best of what has regrettably become a less relevant peer group.
They may not go as many innings but they have movement and velocity that the pictures of yesteryear could only dream about
I believe the video argued that these pitchers bring the same talent level and ability, if not more, than the players of the past, but aren't afforded the opportunity to achieve the types of numbers of pitchers in the past. There isn't a quota being met, if anything we are set to see a significant decrease in SP being inducted into the HoF, so the argument here is to display the value of the modern pitcher.
This is nit picky, but "fewer wins" not "less wins". Great video though
Felix should have easily won another cy so he should have 2 CY perfect game immaculate inning and a grand slam he is a HOF
Limit the amount of pitchers a team can carry and limit the amount of non-injury related roster moves a team can make.
Lowkey the Andruw Jones of pitching.
Tbh the writers are not experts, just opinionated people
I think king felix is hall of fame worthy, he may not be first ballot but he will get there
Many many starting pitchers threw as hard as they do today guys like Randy Johnson Nolan Ryan Bob Gibson Tom Seaver Roger Clemens and on and on and on. Mostt statistics used to determine the value of somebody in baseball is just nerd speak. Also look at the full windup when you throw long enough you realize extension above your shoulders gives you a little bit less wear and tear.
Chris sale obvious Hall of fame? I don't think so. I don't really think hernandez is a hall of famer, but he'll prob get inducted. He definitely isn't a first ballot guy. I think he's just hall of really good.
Considering that his career is far from over as he just won the Cy Young this year, I think it’s fair to say Sale will make it
I would vote no for Felix, regardless of his impressive career......