Always thinking about money... 🙄 There are more important things in life, especially these days... If I had a choice it would always be the Queen of the skies! Long live the Queen ‼️
As I understand it, a pyramid scheme is where you get one guy to invest, then you pay him back with money from the next TWO guys. And you pay them back with money from the next 4 guys. Avatar is not paying anyone back! They are building an airline with the investments, and hopefully, the stock values will grow and investors can hold on to their stock, or trade them and reap the gains. There may be dividends, but never promised, as usual.
@@daneberry2507 "Avatar is not paying anyone back." For once I agree with something one of the Avatar management DBs says. Hey Dan, how about we talk about the insane fees that Family & Avatar were charging for job interviews. How many of them were hired?
Avatar airlines was probably a startup airline by some B747 fans. Based on their business model, the B777-300ER is much more fitting and efficient and should have been their primary choice of aircraft rather than the B747-8.
At first read, I thought you said the 747-300! And yes, that was an original plan for Avatar as Japan had plenty of them for sale quite cheap. Big top, pretty much same size as the -400. But they are all gone. Now... the 777-300ER .... Avatar doesn't need the 'extended range' but the larger fuselage might fit in with Avatar expanded seating of all-coach configuration for the most part. And... quite likely, if Boeing refuses to continue production of the 747-8 for Avatar (and they've already said they have no intention of continuing beyond the 17 freighters on the line now), some model of the Boeing 777 WILL BE the most likely candidate to replace the aging 747-400s at Avatar.
AVATAR AIRLINES REPLY: Thanks for posting this video. Avatar appreciates all comments, both the positive and the critical, bringing public awareness to what we are trying to accomplish. However, I would like to supply my own counter-thoughts as they apply to some very unfair assumptions you are making. We have developed an extensive and conservative financial model over a period of years, that factors in ALL of the costs to operate the 400 over the most popular city pairs in the USA. Your logic is faulty (0:38) to suggest that simply because the idea and the model "dates back to the 90's " that it is "not well-calculated and aggressive. " I could easily argue that the plan is better calculated because it has been perfected over time, and is much more relevant today than back in the '90s, given the current state, trends and slippery slopes by which the current crop of low-cost carriers have lowered the bar on consumer expectations. I think middle America is clamoring for a better way and Avatar intends to supply it. Some good ideas are like good songs. You don't automatically brand them as "bad" just because of their age. Avatar's plan is as unique and as relevant today, as it is old (there are strong arguments that it is actually MORE relevant today than in the 90s) and the concept has never actually been tested in the USA. With current low-cost carriers making record profits not seen since the days of regulation, don't expect them to shift to an entirely different model like the one that Avatar is proposing. Like charging for baggage that was unheard of until one airline actually tried it (and now they all do it), they won't shift until they see that it actually works, and perhaps not even then, not right away, because of their existing infrastructure, fleet and profits. We are confident that competition will come after us, probably from other startups. Let me suggest respectfully that it is terribly short-sighted of you to state our plan is "fundamentally flawed" (1:54) simply because other airlines are trending towards shrinking just as small as they can. It is a circular reasoning of sorts: "because the majority of "X" (fill in whatever you want) does things in "Y" fashion, it is fundamentally flawed to do something in "Z" fashion." That kind of thinking would have us all driving home by horse and buggy to eat dinner by candlelight (which is ok once in a while, but I think you get the gist of my point). Understand that the core essence of being a pioneer or a visionary necessarily implies that you are forging ahead with something that has never been done before. Significantly, the concept of using the 747-400 in a high-density passenger configuration was put to good use by Japan Airlines, where it was used to island-hop for many years. At the time, I believe they were a government-sponsored airline, and they were using 400s on many different routes, both domestic and international. The island-hops were just a small profitable sliver of their overall operation that was plagued with issues beyond the island-hops. But the proof of concept exists if you are willing to look. We are not entirely reinventing the wheel here. We don't plan on flying to cities where we are not confident that we will be able to fill those seats. And we certainly won't fly to destinations that cannot accommodate our aircraft. We did not say we planned on building our own terminals "fresh out of the gate." That is a long-term goal of our vision. For now, less popular routes may not fly every day. You boldly and without any support concluded we will "never be able to fill seats." Let's put this in perspective. Our projections show that our regular everyday fares will be at least 50% cheaper than regular fares of our competitors. Just by way of example (these are projections only) a simple point to point flight from NY to Miami $49 one way, so long as the ticket is purchased 30 days in advance. LA to NY just $79. We will be able to sell seats a year in advance of flights. There is plenty of middle America, budget-conscious folks that actually get vacation time and plan their trips many months in advance. For families that need to transport, 3, 4 5 or more people, that cost savings starts to add up. For many of them, it will be the difference between flying or packing up the family car. For others, the price differential might mean hopping on a plane 2 or 3 times a year instead of once. For others, it might mean getting on a plane once a week instead of once a month. We have the ability to add passengers to the market. Cruiselines would love to package deals with the airlift to get them to their ports. Right now it is nonexistent. Ditto for travel agents. We plan to work with agents to create packages that include seats. Given all that, given that we will only fly to popular cities, YES, we believe we will fill those seats. The secondary profit centers like cargo and advertising allow for a margin of error. Those profit centers will generate revenue from affiliates, NOT from ticketed passengers, which is the only source of revenue for current low-cost carriers. If you are happy with the current trends I need not go any further. But if you believe that there ought to be or is a better way of doing things (as we propose) consider supporting our endeavor as you have done by posting this video. If I didn't make clear, our entire team actually thanks you for the video, though we disagree with some of the fundamental conclusions you are making. Down the road, we do plan on building our own terminals. Our current offering even at $300 mm is actually humble when you consider what it proposes to do for middle America. I have suggested it will create a seismic shift in how budget-conscious travelers take to the skies. Ultimately the goal is to IPO the airline to acquire the -8. Think about what building our own terminals will mean for the local economies, job markets, and numerous secondary hospitality industries. Yes, it is an ambitious plan and yes it is down the road, but we at Avatar see it as if it was right in front of us. That is the strength and resolve of our direction. Barry Michaels is the visionary that provides the thrust in these early stages of Avatar. He may not be perfect, but neither am I and neither are you. We have all sinned and made mistakes we regret - some more serious than others. And as you pointed out, Barry certainly paid a very dear price for his historical transgressions of long ago. Does that mean that his idea should be "shut down"? Should we rebuke a creation simply because of our perceptions of its creator? That's just bad public policy. I could spend another few pages talking about all the good Barry has done since the '90s but that's a topic for another day, and most won't want to hear it anyway, because after all, it's scandal that sells the news. I need only remind you that Richard Branson also had a run-in with the law. Plenty of others out there -some that we will never know. Barry created Avatar but Avatar has a life of its own. Now it just needs money. No surprise that having some good working capital will work wonders at smoothing out the remaining rough edges. I laugh when I see comments so quick to judge, i.e., ":Ponzi scheme, fraud, etc., etc." because I know Barry quite personally, and the 25 or so executives that we have on our team to move Avatar forward. Many talented, experienced individuals that came from established airlines, all working to create something better. It's a synergy among us that is difficult to explain. And it is an insult to all of us to suggest that the company is somehow not legitimate. But we have thick skins, as most pioneers do, to deflect the darts of naysayers and the brunts of bad jokes. I'm a firm believer that Avatar and the flying public will have the last laugh. We have the data to prove that it WILL work. No, we do not have to fly everywhere. No, we do not need to move everyone. This will not be an airline for all, but it will be a fantastic airline to move a large portion of middle America - the forgotten ones. In an age of 1st class travel, Instagram millionaire influencers flying on their own luxury jets - it's nice to know that the rest of us can still take some creature comfort (literally) in having a place to put our feet (besides in the aisle) when we take flight towards the friendly skies. Thanks for listening. Michael E. Zapin Exec Vice Pres and Chief Legal Officer Avatar Airlines, Inc. michaelezapin@avatarairlines.com www.avatarairlines.com
"Ultimately the goal is to IPO the airline to acquire the -8." No, it's not. Your ultimate goal (just like the last attempt in the 1990s) is to scam investors out of as much money as possible & then to disappear. BM is a convicted felon who served time in federal prison for precisely that back in the late 1990s. This "airline" is exactly what "Family Airlines" was nearly 30 years ago. "FA" was another BM attempt that failed. A complete fucking scam.
May the first who has not sinned throw the first stone! Ever heard of that one? I don't care if JC was the son of God, he was a good man. Anyway, the point no one has mentioned is THAT it's SIMPLY the best way to travel. I'm sure many older adults who can afford to travel would LOVE 😍 the idea of getting back on the Queen of the skies and bring back the romance of flying again. You have my full support guys! Let me know what I can do. 👍
Jack Menton: Where are those planes? I've never seen them! Got one hiding in a hangar somewhere? For start up, all the Avatar 747-400s are either still out there flying with other airlines or are parked in the desert somewhere in storage. The plan for the 747-8 is long-range, perhaps 3 years away, after sufficient profits and gains have been made, and an IPO is issued for stock, allowing a $10 billion purchase of 747-8s to replace the aging 747-400s. At the moment, Avatar has NO planes, no office, no HQ, no manuals (work in progress), no funding, and everyone working for it has never been paid a dime.
0:20 Can we talk about that 747-400 747-8 mix? 😂
Lol right?
Awesome video man! Almost at 10k
Yeah, I know! Glad you enjoyed the video bro, thanks for watching.
Pure Aviation lucky duck
Where's the 747 8? This airline sounds great. A single model fleet. It could "take off"!
they re not dead they will get flight certification, in late 2021, they coming! look at avatar airlines channel
Cool video! Almost at 10K wow!!
Yes sir!! Thanks for watching.
I love the 747's 🙌👌
So do I. Thanks for watching!
@@pureaviation3596 no problem 👍
@@Nottsboy24 ofc its no problem xD
Always thinking about money... 🙄 There are more important things in life, especially these days... If I had a choice it would always be the Queen of the skies! Long live the Queen ‼️
bruh, its a companie... almost always the sole purpose is to make money. dont be a hypocrite...
why does this sound like a pyramid scheme
Lol something like that!
As I understand it, a pyramid scheme is where you get one guy to invest, then you pay him back with money from the next TWO guys. And you pay them back with money from the next 4 guys. Avatar is not paying anyone back! They are building an airline with the investments, and hopefully, the stock values will grow and investors can hold on to their stock, or trade them and reap the gains. There may be dividends, but never promised, as usual.
@@daneberry2507 "Avatar is not paying anyone back." For once I agree with something one of the Avatar management DBs says. Hey Dan, how about we talk about the insane fees that Family & Avatar were charging for job interviews. How many of them were hired?
Avatar airlines was probably a startup airline by some B747 fans. Based on their business model, the B777-300ER is much more fitting and efficient and should have been their primary choice of aircraft rather than the B747-8.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. You make a good point, though I mean even a 777 seems a bit much for just domestic flights!
At first read, I thought you said the 747-300! And yes, that was an original plan for Avatar as Japan had plenty of them for sale quite cheap. Big top, pretty much same size as the -400. But they are all gone. Now... the 777-300ER .... Avatar doesn't need the 'extended range' but the larger fuselage might fit in with Avatar expanded seating of all-coach configuration for the most part. And... quite likely, if Boeing refuses to continue production of the 747-8 for Avatar (and they've already said they have no intention of continuing beyond the 17 freighters on the line now), some model of the Boeing 777 WILL BE the most likely candidate to replace the aging 747-400s at Avatar.
I would absolutely love to see this airline actually get off the ground and be successful, but I realistically don't see it happening.
they will get flight certification, in late 2021, they coming! look at avatar airlines channel
#13th like ☺👍
Appreciate it mate!
AVATAR AIRLINES REPLY: Thanks for posting this video. Avatar appreciates all comments, both the positive and the critical, bringing public awareness to what we are trying to accomplish. However, I would like to supply my own counter-thoughts as they apply to some very unfair assumptions you are making.
We have developed an extensive and conservative financial model over a period of years, that factors in ALL of the costs to operate the 400 over the most popular city pairs in the USA. Your logic is faulty (0:38) to suggest that simply because the idea and the model "dates back to the 90's " that it is "not well-calculated and aggressive. " I could easily argue that the plan is better calculated because it has been perfected over time, and is much more relevant today than back in the '90s, given the current state, trends and slippery slopes by which the current crop of low-cost carriers have lowered the bar on consumer expectations. I think middle America is clamoring for a better way and Avatar intends to supply it.
Some good ideas are like good songs. You don't automatically brand them as "bad" just because of their age. Avatar's plan is as unique and as relevant today, as it is old (there are strong arguments that it is actually MORE relevant today than in the 90s) and the concept has never actually been tested in the USA.
With current low-cost carriers making record profits not seen since the days of regulation, don't expect them to shift to an entirely different model like the one that Avatar is proposing. Like charging for baggage that was unheard of until one airline actually tried it (and now they all do it), they won't shift until they see that it actually works, and perhaps not even then, not right away, because of their existing infrastructure, fleet and profits. We are confident that competition will come after us, probably from other startups.
Let me suggest respectfully that it is terribly short-sighted of you to state our plan is "fundamentally flawed" (1:54) simply because other airlines are trending towards shrinking just as small as they can. It is a circular reasoning of sorts: "because the majority of "X" (fill in whatever you want) does things in "Y" fashion, it is fundamentally flawed to do something in "Z" fashion." That kind of thinking would have us all driving home by horse and buggy to eat dinner by candlelight (which is ok once in a while, but I think you get the gist of my point).
Understand that the core essence of being a pioneer or a visionary necessarily implies that you are forging ahead with something that has never been done before. Significantly, the concept of using the 747-400 in a high-density passenger configuration was put to good use by Japan Airlines, where it was used to island-hop for many years. At the time, I believe they were a government-sponsored airline, and they were using 400s on many different routes, both domestic and international. The island-hops were just a small profitable sliver of their overall operation that was plagued with issues beyond the island-hops. But the proof of concept exists if you are willing to look. We are not entirely reinventing the wheel here.
We don't plan on flying to cities where we are not confident that we will be able to fill those seats. And we certainly won't fly to destinations that cannot accommodate our aircraft. We did not say we planned on building our own terminals "fresh out of the gate." That is a long-term goal of our vision. For now, less popular routes may not fly every day.
You boldly and without any support concluded we will "never be able to fill seats." Let's put this in perspective. Our projections show that our regular everyday fares will be at least 50% cheaper than regular fares of our competitors. Just by way of example (these are projections only) a simple point to point flight from NY to Miami $49 one way, so long as the ticket is purchased 30 days in advance. LA to NY just $79. We will be able to sell seats a year in advance of flights.
There is plenty of middle America, budget-conscious folks that actually get vacation time and plan their trips many months in advance. For families that need to transport, 3, 4 5 or more people, that cost savings starts to add up. For many of them, it will be the difference between flying or packing up the family car. For others, the price differential might mean hopping on a plane 2 or 3 times a year instead of once. For others, it might mean getting on a plane once a week instead of once a month. We have the ability to add passengers to the market.
Cruiselines would love to package deals with the airlift to get them to their ports. Right now it is nonexistent. Ditto for travel agents. We plan to work with agents to create packages that include seats.
Given all that, given that we will only fly to popular cities, YES, we believe we will fill those seats. The secondary profit centers like cargo and advertising allow for a margin of error. Those profit centers will generate revenue from affiliates, NOT from ticketed passengers, which is the only source of revenue for current low-cost carriers.
If you are happy with the current trends I need not go any further. But if you believe that there ought to be or is a better way of doing things (as we propose) consider supporting our endeavor as you have done by posting this video. If I didn't make clear, our entire team actually thanks you for the video, though we disagree with some of the fundamental conclusions you are making.
Down the road, we do plan on building our own terminals. Our current offering even at $300 mm is actually humble when you consider what it proposes to do for middle America. I have suggested it will create a seismic shift in how budget-conscious travelers take to the skies. Ultimately the goal is to IPO the airline to acquire the -8. Think about what building our own terminals will mean for the local economies, job markets, and numerous secondary hospitality industries. Yes, it is an ambitious plan and yes it is down the road, but we at Avatar see it as if it was right in front of us. That is the strength and resolve of our direction.
Barry Michaels is the visionary that provides the thrust in these early stages of Avatar. He may not be perfect, but neither am I and neither are you. We have all sinned and made mistakes we regret - some more serious than others. And as you pointed out, Barry certainly paid a very dear price for his historical transgressions of long ago. Does that mean that his idea should be "shut down"? Should we rebuke a creation simply because of our perceptions of its creator? That's just bad public policy. I could spend another few pages talking about all the good Barry has done since the '90s but that's a topic for another day, and most won't want to hear it anyway, because after all, it's scandal that sells the news. I need only remind you that Richard Branson also had a run-in with the law. Plenty of others out there -some that we will never know.
Barry created Avatar but Avatar has a life of its own. Now it just needs money. No surprise that having some good working capital will work wonders at smoothing out the remaining rough edges. I laugh when I see comments so quick to judge, i.e., ":Ponzi scheme, fraud, etc., etc." because I know Barry quite personally, and the 25 or so executives that we have on our team to move Avatar forward. Many talented, experienced individuals that came from established airlines, all working to create something better. It's a synergy among us that is difficult to explain. And it is an insult to all of us to suggest that the company is somehow not legitimate. But we have thick skins, as most pioneers do, to deflect the darts of naysayers and the brunts of bad jokes. I'm a firm believer that Avatar and the flying public will have the last laugh.
We have the data to prove that it WILL work.
No, we do not have to fly everywhere. No, we do not need to move everyone.
This will not be an airline for all, but it will be a fantastic airline to move a large portion of middle America - the forgotten ones. In an age of 1st class travel, Instagram millionaire influencers flying on their own luxury jets - it's nice to know that the rest of us can still take some creature comfort (literally) in having a place to put our feet (besides in the aisle) when we take flight towards the friendly skies.
Thanks for listening.
Michael E. Zapin
Exec Vice Pres and Chief Legal Officer
Avatar Airlines, Inc.
michaelezapin@avatarairlines.com
www.avatarairlines.com
"Ultimately the goal is to IPO the airline to acquire the -8." No, it's not. Your ultimate goal (just like the last attempt in the 1990s) is to scam investors out of as much money as possible & then to disappear. BM is a convicted felon who served time in federal prison for precisely that back in the late 1990s. This "airline" is exactly what "Family Airlines" was nearly 30 years ago. "FA" was another BM attempt that failed. A complete fucking scam.
May the first who has not sinned throw the first stone! Ever heard of that one? I don't care if JC was the son of God, he was a good man. Anyway, the point no one has mentioned is THAT it's SIMPLY the best way to travel. I'm sure many older adults who can afford to travel would LOVE 😍 the idea of getting back on the Queen of the skies and bring back the romance of flying again. You have my full support guys! Let me know what I can do. 👍
keep it up guys, dont listen to those guys thinking to be smarter than professional managers. lets bring the 747 back!
@@jdf1stats lol, hey I know, you can "pray" the airline into existence!
@@stvpls LOL "professional managers" with criminal records and a failure to start the airline for over 30 years! LOL
But they already have planes...
Jack Menton: Where are those planes? I've never seen them! Got one hiding in a hangar somewhere? For start up, all the Avatar 747-400s are either still out there flying with other airlines or are parked in the desert somewhere in storage. The plan for the 747-8 is long-range, perhaps 3 years away, after sufficient profits and gains have been made, and an IPO is issued for stock, allowing a $10 billion purchase of 747-8s to replace the aging 747-400s. At the moment, Avatar has NO planes, no office, no HQ, no manuals (work in progress), no funding, and everyone working for it has never been paid a dime.
How about a 777x or A350-1000?
Boring compared to the Queen. ☺️
airjimracing very very true