@@lumatone Sounds amazing. So in the generalized form, does moving in any of the 3 axes still correspond to moving by perfect fifths, major thirds, and minor thirds respectively?
@@suomeaboo The axes define the layout, so yes, if you want to! To be more specific, you only have to pick two intervals, and then the third axis is the difference of the two. The Harmonic Table is specifically the case of a fifth + a major third, so it will have similar properties in many tunings that approximate the 3rd and 5th harmonics well. I say "many" because there's a catch - the scale degrees you choose can't share factors with each other, or at least one can't share a factor with the total number of notes, otherwise your layout will not have every note in the tuning. For example with 24-EDO, you cannot have an exact Harmonic Table layout that contains all quartertones because the major third is 8 steps, the fifth is 14 steps, and the complementary (minor third) axis will be (14 - 8) 6 steps. This will not produce any odd numbered degrees so you simply get a 12-EDO Harmonic Table. However, if you keep the fifth axis (14 steps), but tweak the major third axis up one degree to 9 steps (supermajor third), the complementary axis will be 5 steps (subminor third). This creates a layout with similar functionalities to the Harmonic Table, but the tonalities will be stretched.
@@vsicurella Thanks for the very detailed answer. I guess I wasn't so clear in the way I asked, but this makes a lot of sense. So using 18\31 and 10\31 doesn't fully cover 31-EDO since 18 and 10 aren't relatively prime, but using 31\53 and 17\53 fully cover 53-EDO since 31 and 17 are relatively prime.
@@vsicurella Another possibility would be to follow the instructions of Ivan Wyschnegradsky (not specifically for Harmonic Table, but for scale building) and substitute the minor fifth 16/11 for the perfect fifth 3/2. Although this won't get as much compass as your way, and some of his music sure does push into the outer reaches of piano compass.
I'm wondering when there will be a deluxe edition Lumatone keyboard that adds programmable OLED displays to each key. This would be fantastic for having labels-on-keys and providing the player with a great deal more information about how each key is programmed. Including secondary functions.
Interesting, but expensive. And kills the point of being "intuitive". But interesting nonetheless, if you're ready to put in the price. (As you said, a "deluxe" version.) ... don't be surprised if the price is almost doubled then however. But yeah many high-end instruments are far more expensive than this.
I’ve been pondering in the back of my mind what a 19-tone-per-octave equivalent of the harmonic table would look like, if that’s realistic on a Lumatone. I haven’t had time to think it out in detail yet (work work work), but I’m thinking, with the longer circle of fifths, you’d run out of vertical space.
I haven’t had a chance to try out the harmonic table yet, but I’m looking forward to it! Just looking over the layout, however, it seems like getting “proper” voice-leading in, for example, a V7-to-I chord progression, might lead to some semi-awkward fingerings. Again though, I’d have to try it with my very own fingers before I raise such a concern!
I finally tried it, and the particular pattern for the "proper" voice-leading of a Common-Practice V7-I resolution fingers pretty easily. Cool! Now to clarify, I'm not mentioning this because I think we _always_ have to follow Common-Practice voice-leading rules -- *_not at all_* ! But it's *_one_*_ well-understood_ approach that ... has a well-understood musical effect. So, it's just one familiar point of reference.
@@mr88cet I discovered after learning this layout that it's very well suited for harmony. Not just functional harmony, but the modulations I use the most are equally easy to execute. That's why I use it over for example Wicki-Hayden which is more oriented to diatonic scales.
Lumatone is really a blank canvas, you can tune/modify any mapping to work with any sound source however you like - so yes, absolutely, you could modify the harmonic table on Lumatone to work with any tuning system you'd like. And absolutely Lumatone is compatible with any and all DAWs including logic.
@@jessenebeker4942 Yeah, it's interesting how it works out better for 53 than for 31. In 31 equal, the harmonic table only gets you even octaves of any given note, so you'll have, say, C0 and C2 and C4, but not C1 or C3.
Cool idea. Would be interesting to try one!
So cool!
The Harmonic Table is a very cool layout. Are there related layouts that allow the Harmonic Table to adapt to other tunings (like 31-EDO for example)?
Harmonic tables can be built to accomodate microtonal tunings, yes!
@@lumatone Sounds amazing. So in the generalized form, does moving in any of the 3 axes still correspond to moving by perfect fifths, major thirds, and minor thirds respectively?
@@suomeaboo The axes define the layout, so yes, if you want to! To be more specific, you only have to pick two intervals, and then the third axis is the difference of the two. The Harmonic Table is specifically the case of a fifth + a major third, so it will have similar properties in many tunings that approximate the 3rd and 5th harmonics well.
I say "many" because there's a catch - the scale degrees you choose can't share factors with each other, or at least one can't share a factor with the total number of notes, otherwise your layout will not have every note in the tuning. For example with 24-EDO, you cannot have an exact Harmonic Table layout that contains all quartertones because the major third is 8 steps, the fifth is 14 steps, and the complementary (minor third) axis will be (14 - 8) 6 steps. This will not produce any odd numbered degrees so you simply get a 12-EDO Harmonic Table. However, if you keep the fifth axis (14 steps), but tweak the major third axis up one degree to 9 steps (supermajor third), the complementary axis will be 5 steps (subminor third). This creates a layout with similar functionalities to the Harmonic Table, but the tonalities will be stretched.
@@vsicurella Thanks for the very detailed answer. I guess I wasn't so clear in the way I asked, but this makes a lot of sense.
So using 18\31 and 10\31 doesn't fully cover 31-EDO since 18 and 10 aren't relatively prime, but using 31\53 and 17\53 fully cover 53-EDO since 31 and 17 are relatively prime.
@@vsicurella Another possibility would be to follow the instructions of Ivan Wyschnegradsky (not specifically for Harmonic Table, but for scale building) and substitute the minor fifth 16/11 for the perfect fifth 3/2. Although this won't get as much compass as your way, and some of his music sure does push into the outer reaches of piano compass.
I'm wondering when there will be a deluxe edition Lumatone keyboard that adds programmable OLED displays to each key. This would be fantastic for having labels-on-keys and providing the player with a great deal more information about how each key is programmed. Including secondary functions.
Interesting, but expensive.
And kills the point of being "intuitive".
But interesting nonetheless, if you're ready to put in the price. (As you said, a "deluxe" version.)
... don't be surprised if the price is almost doubled then however.
But yeah many high-end instruments are far more expensive than this.
I’ve been pondering in the back of my mind what a 19-tone-per-octave equivalent of the harmonic table would look like, if that’s realistic on a Lumatone.
I haven’t had time to think it out in detail yet (work work work), but I’m thinking, with the longer circle of fifths, you’d run out of vertical space.
I don't even play keyboard....but I want a Lumatone now.
I haven’t had a chance to try out the harmonic table yet, but I’m looking forward to it!
Just looking over the layout, however, it seems like getting “proper” voice-leading in, for example, a V7-to-I chord progression, might lead to some semi-awkward fingerings.
Again though, I’d have to try it with my very own fingers before I raise such a concern!
I finally tried it, and the particular pattern for the "proper" voice-leading of a Common-Practice V7-I resolution fingers pretty easily. Cool!
Now to clarify, I'm not mentioning this because I think we _always_ have to follow Common-Practice voice-leading rules -- *_not at all_* ! But it's *_one_*_ well-understood_ approach that ... has a well-understood musical effect. So, it's just one familiar point of reference.
@@mr88cet I discovered after learning this layout that it's very well suited for harmony. Not just functional harmony, but the modulations I use the most are equally easy to execute. That's why I use it over for example Wicki-Hayden which is more oriented to diatonic scales.
@@roadtonever, excellent!
But can you tune those 12 notes to be truly harmonic, or are you stuck with Equal Temperament? Does it work with Logic Pro?
Lumatone is really a blank canvas, you can tune/modify any mapping to work with any sound source however you like - so yes, absolutely, you could modify the harmonic table on Lumatone to work with any tuning system you'd like. And absolutely Lumatone is compatible with any and all DAWs including logic.
You can make a harmonic table using 53-tone equal temperament in a pretty elegant way, really similarly to this one!
@@jessenebeker4942 Yeah, it's interesting how it works out better for 53 than for 31. In 31 equal, the harmonic table only gets you even octaves of any given note, so you'll have, say, C0 and C2 and C4, but not C1 or C3.
if i'm not mistaken, brock benzel (invalids, panuccis pizza, good game) uses one of these and does not use 12TET
@@p0w3rvi0l3nc3 All the videos I've seen, Brock is using a Bosanquet layout for it rather than harmonic table though, but that'd be neat to see. :)
Owen Wilson teaching me an instrument that's just.... Wow
i wanna play with that
Oh
Same. Playing with a Lumatone seems so fun.