@@fleshen Not even close to being on the same level. Something like 80 different players in the past 7 tests for France. They've being doing it for years
The simple answer to me is, if France rightly want to rest their players, let them tour Tier 2 countries, let the other Tier 1 nations tour among themselves. Problem solved
Their 2nd string players beat the Argentinians away this summer. They beat Australia in Australia 3 years ago. Their 3rd tier players ( France played 3 games within the span of 1 week this summer, the game vs Uruguay was sandwiched between both games vs Argentina, so no starters from the games vs Argentina were allowed to play against Uruguay ) gave Uruguay a beatdown. So their B Team beats the Argentinian side in Argentina, their C team pummels Uruguay in Uruguay. Tell me which problem needs solving again. Not playing tier 2 teams? Not being competitive vs tier 1 teams?
Are you joking? The French B team can beat most tier 1 nations. Didn't you watch this year in Argentina? I think you knew that. Just jadto get a stab in
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 The problem isn't about French 2nd strings beating Tier one nations, it's about money. It's very hard to market a tour if the incoming team isn't bringing their marquee names. 2nd string French teams can beat everyone they want, but your average punter wants to see Dupont, Ntamack et al. More specifically, they want to see France's absolute best playing NZ's absolute best.
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 AB's in NZ are not a newly coached Argy team. NZ will put 30+ on France. Those young Fra players will leave NZ knowing deep in their soul that they are not good enough, they were never good enough and are only used as fodder to prop up the billionaire owner rugby league that controls the FRU.
They are focusing on their own interests. Incoming tours are a major source of income for a nation's rugby setup. Watered down teams reduce public interest and therefore income.
It's kinder hard to imagine Antoine dupont was selected world player of the year few years ago and the guy never play in new Zealand, Australia, Argentina and in south Africa 😮the guy merely selected from playing in domestic French league
As a French, I'm disgusted What we want the most is to see Dupont play in New Zeland but with this bastard of Galthié it may never happen... that's really unfair, every fan in France woud love to see a game with NZ and France at their top Dupont will never be considerated as a Legend if he doesn't play in NZ or SA, and this is sad
There are already two international windows. France don't respect them now, so expecting the whole rugby world to change to accommodate French domestic rugby is pure arrogance.
For the last 5/6 years all I’ve heard from the media, yourself included. is how France are “unstoppable “ and how are others going to keep up with them. Yet in the last 6 years they’ve won one six nations and lost two rwc quarters, one at home . The french team glazing and Dupont glazing is so out of hand seeing as they bottle it when it matters in the six nations and World Cup .
Good points made. Professional rugby in France is run by the professionally owned clubs and here’s nothing in it for the clubs to have players in the National team. This seems to be how other professional sports are run. Most National rugby unions and World Rugby still seem to be stuck in the amateur era. The constant Law changes are another example.
Totally agree. Rugby is still ran like the amature days. The Clubs and private owners must take over the professional side of things. How can SA rugby decide who mush a rugby player can earn, or how much a team may spend on their players. Total B
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 The reason super rugby season is shorter is so that the players can play in test matches. NZR and NZ Public believe That international Rugby Should be the pinnacle of the game
@@llewellynlamb9545 They’ve done that plenty of times in the past. Anyone thinking the teams against eg. Wales are going to be full strength sides are having a laugh.
As disappointing as it is, without your insight Tim, I’d have remained livid having just read the article on Planet Rugby. Once again Eggchasers delivers. Nous vous saluons.
The word 'livid' is a very strong one, and we only have Will Kelleher's word that that is what NZ rugby have said. Yes, they may be disappointed but the press do tend to blow things out of proportion. It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
I totally agree with you. There is too much rugby but then world rugby want to add more tournaments which is crazy. Also this is how France blood new players which is no bad thing. I get the frustration but until world rugby get their heads straight, act like grown ups and sort it out it’s the way it will be.
Rugby is a global sport and need to compete for dollars, so no it is not to much rugby it's the old way of doing form amateur era that are creating problems. if rugby go the way of NFL with huge teams all these "problems" will be diminished
It would be amazing to see two full sides going head to head - classic rugby, BUT it's obviously not possible. Thanks Tim for putting it into perspective.
As a rugby mad kiwi, I didn't even realise the top 14 was at a different time... Hoping schedules get sorted out so we can have players like Dupont and others come to our shores. Our All Blacks don't want anything less other than the biggest challenge. Theres only one way to be the best
@@nanderton9354 Rugby is dying in Wales and Australia, NZ are far from being the team they used to be, english rugby clubs are bankrupt, Ireland have only 4 provinces. Meanwhile, Top14 is the only domestic league that generates that much money, with huge crowds and TV audience (seriously, watch the amount of people and the crowd noise in Clermont, Toulon, Bayonne, La Rochelle, Bordeaux...). I even have friends in England watching Pro D2. For the International scene to thrive in the long term, we need strong clubs in every country, like in Football. France U20 have won 3 of the last 4 WC, and were in final this year. Top14 and Pro D2 pay for most of Tier 2 players wages (Georgia, Tonga, Fidji, Samoa, Italy before that...), Argentina still relies a lot on Top 14. They won the 7s Olympics. France won the last 4 HCup, and 3 of the last 4 Challenge Cups, with clubs like Toulon and Racing struggling to reach the Top 14 top 6. Their B team almost won the tour in Australia 3 years ago, won the tour in Argentina this year, their depth is matched only by SA, for now... Other country should look at what France is building, instead of complaining that Dupont is too scared to play south of the Equator... I mean, France hammered NZ the 2 last time they met, and Dupont captained the team that inflicted England its largest defeat at Twickenham (10-53). He also won in Dublin, thing that I don't recall NZ nor SA doing in recent years, while Wales won in SA in 2022, while Argentina won many times in NZ in recent years. Winning south is not something that would make you the GOAT (not saying that he is, but the argument that he can't be because of that doesn't make sense)
Hi Tim you asked why NZ require it's rugby players to play in Super Rugby? Well it means that you can control the length of their season and the amount of rugby they play. It also means that when they have an international tour, they have all those players available to select. You seem to think that it is down to New Zealand (and perhaps other Southern Hemisphere countries) to sort out an international window when internationals are played? Really can you imagine the current Six Nations format or timing being altered - I can't. You have been critical of NZ not allowing players who play in overseas leagues to play for the All Blacks. But you also noted (in this clip) that Argentian players who play for top 14 French clubs are too knackered to play for their country, as the season runs for 10 months. If your priority is to have top privately owned rugby competitions (as opposed to international competitions between countries) then I would agree with you. But given that three English private professional clubs have folded recently, is that the way you want rugby to go?
French club rugby is growing not shrinking and is financially sustainable. English club management has managed to destroy hundreds of years of tradition.
Thing is - there is zero chance of clubs like Toulouse and La Rochelle agreeing to end the Champions Cup. While lower down in the Top 14 it’s not seen as of huge importance, for the top clubs they value it just as much as the Brennus (and the same remains true at the top end of eg. the URC). The most that could be done there is some form of reform to make for a shorter contest. But then for sides like the English, losing European games would take a bit cut of all their competitive matches because their season is already so short.
the world doesn't have to bow down to top 14 , if france don't see value in playing NZ in NZ then the French national team brand loses and they lose experience, the confidence Ireland got from winning test matches in NZ and RSA can't be quantified, it's their loss
every other major domestic league is structured around the international season -- why can't the top 14 do the same? everyone says the top 14 is too much of a grind. Can't they reduce the season, play fewer games?
Great vid Eggie, all right points. Bottom line is : a total and global rescheduling have to be discussed. Else we're not going to change anything to the picture.
What the French decide to do is entirely up to them. Ireland took a 1st XV Test squad, shorn of some of their "star players", to New Zealand in July of 2022, and proved themselves to be competitive enough to be worthy of playing there. "Harden up bros", as you New Zealanders are 'want to say' 🏴☠☘
So a journo is using the word Livid.... And everyone fell for it. 😂🤣😂🤣 NZRU have known for years this is what France does. Eden Park will still be packed and the world goes on.
If the plan is to develop a side to take the next world cup, then I suppose it makes sense. That being said a proper NZ vs FR series would have been great to watch.
The quality of the players is not the problem, it's New Zealands chance to generate revenue. They are been forced to market a reserve side. If you want to make it fair there needs to be a profit share on ticket sales both home and away.
Nz should start with their own domestic competition and the inability to attract crowds. They have a much bigger problem and that is their own negativity. Their old school policies are hurting them, but unlike the rest of the larger international teams building depth and developing people, they are stubborn and holding on to the old way of playing rugby. They are being left behind as a result, and then they throw their toys out the cot because they don't get what they want. Typical NZ, entitled.
Perfect understanding of the context Tim. An analogy I would make with football competitions would be: Premier League (or La Liga for that matter) interrupting the money making circus to send the league's best 11 to Brasil for a 3 friendlies tournament.
A second string French side with nothing to lose against the All Blacks could be terrifying! It's terrible news for rugby fans but could be dangerous for kiwis.
Why shouldn't NZ be livid? They have every right to be and backing them up and being equally livid should be the French Rugby Union governing body. As you say, for the last 15 years France has been sending B. Sides south, accommodating their clubs and a chance to bread new talent, etc. How's that working out for them during RWC tournaments for the past 15 years? If the IRB wants rugby to grow internationally maybe they should be taking the bull by the horns on this issue and looking at ways to accommodate all sides with the input of all the Unions involved. I get big money is involved, but surely they figure a way forward. The Southern Hemisphere sides are constantly sending close to full strength sides north as they obligated to do and they win more often than not. Only one RWC has been won by a northern side, maybe they should take a leap out if the southern hemisphere teams playbook and schedule accordingly. All fans are passionate about their club sides regardless of where they come from. Some are just not as vocal and as animated as others. Lawes the second best blind in the world if he came back... I think Matera and a few others would have something to say about that. PSDT, definitely the best in the business in his position at the moment, and he and Colby are the two best players on the planet IMO as well.
I can see both sides. France are disrespecting international rugby by sending weaker teams, but NZ should have known this would happen because it's what they always do. Throwing a hissy fit now looks contrived.
@@randomlyfactual1943 It makes sense that SA have a lot of world cup winners because they have, like, just won the last two world cups. Doesn't prevent a team from being second-string.
I hate this thing of prioritizing the money making provincial leagues over international tours. Just like cricket, 3 game tours will start to die. We were already robbed of SA vs Ireland 3 and NZ vs Eng 3 this year. Perhaps we have no choice but to look at a Global calendar.
If NZR officials are ‘livid’ about this, they are even more stupid than I thought 😂 It would have been more of a shock if they had sent all their top players. They don’t do it. The Top 14 is their priority (the only competition being the Champions Cup for two or three of the top teams) - and the intensity and length of it is at level people who only follow minor short form contests like Super Rugby cannot understand. Remember the Top 14 and Pro D2 earn more than every other rugby union league in the world *put together*.
Very insightful and informative vlog. It also left some random thoughts. Why do some countries persist in not picking players who play outside of their country ?
@@basildavidson4597 It’s an attempt to prop up the domestic game. Questionable whether it ever really works, but there’s quite a few places that engage in it. Even Ireland, albeit they are willing to make exceptions.
Honestly this is same old same old, same conversation every year, Northern Hemisphere sends second teams south due to domestic competitions, Southern Hemisphere sends tired full strength teams north at the end of our season. Does it help world rugby? well it doesn't hurt, youngsters get exposure and experience and in the last few decades the expected results were the same even if it was the first team, with competition getting closer a rethink might be necessary.
Great content Tim , agree with everything you have said . Just have to have a dig , so again everyone must stop their development plans etc to fit in with the New Zealand Rugby , what supreme arrogance on display . Again New Zealand chasing the money always chasing the money !
They are coming to NZ and NZ are chasing the money only France and England ( past ) have sent 2nd string development sides fking joke when you represent you go full strength or fking stay home period tired c..ts
I get it NZ has been kicking your asses for 120 years, so you would love it if NZ just went away. Of course, we are chasing the money we would not survive without it. France has a monster competition which is eating the Northern Hemisphere Unions. Then NZ tours France and theyput millions in the bank and pay NZ a pittance, then they send a second team to NZ to which will likely draw substandard revenue. NZ Might be about Chasing the money but the NH teams and France have it all.
@182Warren to send a 2nd string development team is Supreme Arrogance on display especially when you represent your country england ireland France Italy when their masses come to a sellout national stadium to see their test 15 side play the Abs it won't be a 2nd string development team from NZ it will be a full strength All black squad fortunately for world rugby we don't cheapen the jersey and you get your money's worth. Stop talking smack
Like the French care. . . it's known as a Gallic shrug for a reason. 🤷 "You do you, we'll do us." If NZ opted for a long-term strategy to recapture Bill that displeased other Unions - do you think they'd change because of it. . .? I dont think they'd even care tbh. . . As you rightly point out Tim - the NZRFU must've known what 'le crack' was regarding the French & their approach to end of season touring when the tour was first being negotiated/arranged. . .& If they didn't realise/know, then wtaf have they been doing? 🤔
I agree that this has been Frances SOP for the longest of time, however how has sending developmental teams to the south helped them? How many world cups have they won? Its no wonder they look good up north, then fall short at the big dance mostly to Southern teams
Ireland have sent their best team vs South Africa this summer. How many world cups have they won? Let's not forget that so far the northern teams have won 1 WC total. Yet England, Wales, Ireland etc send their best players come summer tour. France lost by 1 point last year in the WC, lost by 1 point in 2019 having played with 14 players after the 45th minute. When a team loses by such a slim margin, you can find a lot of different reasons, their inability to send their best players in summer would not be on top of the list.
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 credit to Ireland, they have made progress by winning in NZ and South Africa last few years. When was the last time France won in South Africa or New Zealand?
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 Maybe they lost by 1 point instead of winning by 1 point because they don't send their best players south to play blockbuster tests against the best in the world enough. Experience counts
@@patanouketgersiflet9486Let's forget about world cup wins. Let's just look at performance: - by 2011, France made the semi finals in SIX of the first SEVEN RWC tournaments. Of these six, they made the finals THREE times. - Since 2011 (and the spending sprees in particular) France has not advanced passed the quarterfinal stage. - between 1980 and 2010, France has won something like 14 Six Nations titles, 3 of them being shared. In 2000-2010 France won the 6N FOUR times. - Since 2011, France has won the Six Nations just once in thirteen years, in 2022. So yeah, my assessment here is that the French torpedoed their own national rugby team. Is it because the seasons are too long? Is it because the clubs rule the roost? Is it because their top players are not playing in crunch games against the SH powers? Is it because they buy so much foreign talent that they've tanked their own player pool? Or is it a combination of all of these combined? But yeah, no arguing with their results.
@@mfundomlumbi3214 It’s helped them have the biggest rugby market in the world, fully financially self-sustaining and profitable, while rugby union is slowly dying in New Zealand and several other SH countries. So probably best not lecture them on how to run rugby.
You nailed it yet again, Tim. NZ simply don’t have a case, so it’s much ado about nothing. If only every rugby nation had the same strength in depth at club level as France, the game would be in a much healthier state finances-wise, with more and players earning a decent living wage. PS, didn’t hear any USA Rugby complaints when a “weaker” Scottish side toured there earlier this year
Change the group stage of the Champions Cup, make them all league based. So the Champions cup groups would consist of teams from just their respective leagues. So for example if Leinster play Munster in the season, it should count for the URC and Champions Cup groups, which would be great for the promotion of those games, because they mean more, you can have 1 a week in every league, make it a feature game for the weekend. That would shorten the top 14 and all other leagues by 4 weeks. Gives the perfect window for an incoming series.
The tours are how most of the unions make their money. NZ needs big tours to make money, if you send a second team then the revenue will be lower. Second rate teams just don't draw crowds. As for this idea that NZ should have all our best players playing in France that is madness, why would we want to make French rugby all powerful. Do you really think New Zealand fans are getting up in the middle of the night to watch? If this happens New Zealand will become a League country. You NH countries need to decide if you want international rugby to be the pinnacle of the sport or a French league to be the top level. You should have curbed the power of the clubs before, now you are going to continue to be beholden to the.
Tim... how about a discussion on the policies of England and NZ on not selecting overseas players? As a South African, it makes no sense to me that these players are not eligible to play for their national side. In this day and age, I think it's very short sighted. Have I got the wrong end of the stick here? Your thoughts?
Super rugby in NZ would loose too many ABs overseas if we did and professional rugby would colapse in NZ. Plus we don't actually need the overseas players. People have just jumped on that train as a knee jerk reaction this year. The players that were talked about, we don't need Frizell because now we have Satiti. We don't Smith because with have Roigard and Ratima. And Mounga was never actually that great for the ABs so we'll stay with the players in NZ and not drain Super Rugby for the sake of a few players we don't actually need.
@@Hatunrumioc @anthonylees5735 I agree that professional rugby would likely collapse in NZ, I think NZ would quickly become a League country. We would likely have 3 NRL teams in NZ. Of course, every other country would love that.
From an England POV, it's to bolster and protect the domestic teams we have, and we're not missing too much when it comes to players who are ineligible. Tim mentions Lawes in this video but we're not starved for options in the back row (Tim himself has talked up Hill in the past year - a name not involved currently). Faz is a bit of a miss but Ford is ideally suited for how we want to play and the two Smiths have ceilings they've not yet got to, so we're good there. Just picking England based players give more control too. Considering Willis, he was one of the names on that final teamsheet that Tim shows in this video, which means Borthwick can't reasonably pick him for the summer tour. Is Willis that much better at 7 than Curry or Curry or Evans or Pepper or Earl, when the lack of control is factored in? Or if Willis is picked at 6, is he better than Hill or CCS or Chessum, who are some of the England based options. Another thing to point out too... How might Lawes or Faz feel if they were still eligible for England and their salary dropped partially because their respective clubs don't have the assurance that they're free for international windows? Idk, I'm guessing there are England players in France who enjoy this aspect of not having to officially retire from internationals.
Also logistically, NZ is incredibly isolated. It's a lot easier to gather the squad in Wellington for a few days training from around NZ then to try and fly guys back from Europe.
Things we need to sort out: - Global season - Less URC and/or ERC matches - Shorter Top 14 The best players need to be available for every test match as a non-negotiable. This watering down is not good for rugby at all. They play an insane amount of rugby in France, so we need doctors to give medical analysis on it and get courts to force the above happening. This is a much different sport than soccer, but France are treating it as if it's exactly the same and like players can play 11.5 months a year, it's just way too physical for that. I agree with scrapping the ERC as is, and then just 6 URC teams, 4 Premiership teams, and 6 Top 14 teams duelling it out in an FA Cup-style knockout, 4 rounds only and the winner is the European champion. Toulose played 28 matches in the top 14 last year, Bordeaux played 29, and a further 8 in the ERC. That is too much for their players, they can reduce that to 15/16 if they play just a single round. I know it's the money maker for them, but why not put more money into the national team? It would be far better for advertising if they beat the All Blacks in New Zealand than any domestic cup will. They are going the F1 mistake route of "more is better", it's a bit mental. Mark my words, if we don't sort this big bottleneck of matches in Europe, it's going to burst the bubble eventually.
I don’t think the NZ officials were “livid”. The Ab are probably just disappointed they can’t play them at their best like the Bokks did in the 2023 WC.
Thanks for the explanation but it shouldn’t be like this, the crowds in NZ and SA and Australia and Argentina deserve to see the very best that France can bring. So yes I agree that they need to tear up the schedule and start again.
Hello, thanks for the video! However, being french and a fan of rugby since basically I was born I have to contradict you. If you asked french club fans (I'm a Stade Français fan) if they would rather their club team win top 14 or the french team win the World Cup there is no doubt in my mind the vast majority would say world cup. These are not remotely comparable, the world cup is the biggest event in the sport and all french fans agree. However, if you asked them between their team winning the top 14 and the french team winning an exhibition game then sure there will be a lot of people saying top 14.
I was pretty upset with France but thank you for putting this in perspective. I totally agree that all the unions need to come together and sort out the calendar. Instead of Champions cup, have a 5 team tournament with the winners from each big league (including Japan) so that the Unions can get an idea of where their club level is at and it's still a nice top level club competition but doesn't take so much time. But I do think the other top teams should just not schedule series against France if they know this is their MO.
Hi @EggchasersRugby, great work as always. Please plug FR-UK Rugby more often. The work on that channel is great and its criminal that it doesn't get more attention
The chance to create a global season was in 2020 when leagues across the world were delayed, shortened, or cancelled entirely because of the pandemic. So taking advantage of the disruption already created by that. Can't see it happening any time soon.
Thanks for giving me insight to the French domestic league. NZ and other countries that have policies on overseas based players should take a leaf out of football and SA rugby. Let players earn their max potential and select from there. SA can point to many players that improved when playing for max money. Rugby must understand that national teams are the pinnacle but that means they must play less not more. Can't get best out of players if they are fatigued. Football shows that quality improves only if players are allowed to earn max.
This is exactly why France will never be world cup winners nor will Dupont ever be the goat... they can be as magical as they want against mid level opponents but they never do it against the big boys...
Test series should live by its name: "test" and I think the problem for NZ is that they kinda live in a different world, because THEY do need money and exposure a lot more than any other rugby nations. "2nd strings" players are usually (almost) matching the level of prime counterparts only missing some automations (and that's valid for all big rugby nations). They too deserve international exposure, and that can only be beneficial for unions. Player welfare should come first and always. It's not only logical, but it's also necessary for prime players to develop. NZ A team players have a chance to play vs South Africa on a yearly basis. French should be the one jealous of not having such opportunity, set aside now European games.
I agree with you Tim, this is nothing new, France always do this. Will be interesting to see who they select for the November games. It will also be interesting how it effects their ranking and draw for the World Cup come next year
The Top14 is the toughest club competition in the world in terms of schedule and overall difficulty. Add in the european competitions, the 6 nations, and the top French players play many more matches than most southern sides. I think it's a pity that the French team doesn't play together more, I think that's what they're missing, but the risks of injuries or simply fielding exhausted players is too much.
That's always going to be a difficult jigsaw puzzle to put together. Because France is traditionally one of the strongest sides in the world, but since the big money came into play, there has been a noticeable decline in performance: - Whereas France made six of the first seven world cup finals, they've not been in a semi since 2011 - Where France dominated the Six Nations, they've only won one tournament since 2011 - They've taken some record hidings in their away fixtures. But then, I also get the club side: France has the richest and arguably the toughest league in the world and these players are being paid millions. To just hand them over for France to go on tour and torpedo their own chances at glory is also asking quite a lot of the private ownership! It's a very difficult problem to approach and I hope to God that the unions can sit together and come up with a solution.
If I were NZR, I would rather invite a team like Scotland, Wales or Ireland over, who respect Test Level rugby more than domestic rugby business like the French Union. No hate towards the French, but if they don't care about the test level as much as the money in the Pro14, then they shouldn't occupy a test series in NZ which other nations would kill to have the opportunity to go on.
@@Rugby2000 NZ have chosen not to invite Scotland for a test in many many years, because they don’t view them as a sufficient draw (and there is no tour scheduled in the future). That’s been entirely their call. (And Scotland won’t send their Top 14 players on a southern summer tour either, incidentally - the only difference is there is only a handful of them, rather than the majority)
France does not look at irrelevant details (like deciding who the GOAT is), they know that they already have a good chance in the next few years to win the world cup both for the players they currently have and for the young players who arrive, and they will have an even better chance if they continue to build a strong team for the next world cup. Despite the recent failure at the 2023 world cup, they remain one of the richest nations and therefore prefer to lose some spectators in the stands but have a bigger gain in the long term.
Perhaps RSA, Aus and NZ should not include France in their end of year tours? Or require that the French pay more for them to play to make up for the shortfall in income caused by second tier players being fielded mid year. The French team may win the mid year tests but people want to see the best players playing and there is a financial impact on income.
It's not about the French team. New Zealand could have arranged a tour with another country instead. If the French want to focus of the top 14 that's great but then they shouldn't expect the other nations to play them in July tests
I believe the best approach for World Rugby is to convene the top 20 countries and agree to establish domestic leagues that run concurrently. This way, when it's time for international tests, all teams can compete against each other, reflecting the global nature of the sport. Additionally, we could schedule the women's rugby season to start when the men's players are on holiday, keeping fans engaged and entertained in the interim.
Super Rugby is small and shorter comp. Top 14 is worth hundreds of millions and takes 9+ months. I would LOVE what you say to happen. Financial realities get in the way.
Domestic e.g Premiership Rugby 10 Clubs in League 18 Fixtures/Week Season (Home & Away simple epl style none of this semi final bs) 4 Weeks Holiday 4 Weeks Pre Season Training International 10 Countries Per Division 18 Fixtures/Week Season (Home & Away simple epl style none of this semi final bs) #1 Promotion #10 Relegation 4 Weeks Holiday 4 Weeks Pre Season Training Establishing concurrent domestic leagues will enhance the competitiveness of rugby. During international duty, countries can continue their domestic competitions, similar to New Zealand's NPC or South Africa's Currie Cup. This approach keeps players who aren't selected for the national team actively engaged, allowing them to improve their skills rather than sitting idle at home. Moreover, these domestic leagues play a crucial role in spotting talent, as they provide opportunities for younger players to develop. For example, many of Bok players have emerged from the Currie Cup.
@EggchasersRugby ok France aside can't this work with the other nations, I know this will kill six nations and rugby championship, Pacific championship but to grow the game it has to happen
To grow the game? I tought all we needed to do was change the ball in play time to grow the game? You telling me it was a lie? We have to do something else? 😂 I have been involved in growing the game. There is only one way you grow the game. It is to go into communities and make the game available. They need to be coached and have the opportunity to play themselves. I coached in South Africa, even in South Africa you still have to take the game to the communities. They don't care about watching it. They want to play. Real love for the game only starts when you play the game.
@@nicolasmaligner8753 He made his debut in 2017 and has only played 25 mins of rugby in the Southern Hemisphere. Stop making him sound like a victim of circumstance. We all know he is wrapped in cotton wool when it comes to playing in the South
@@desttu9531 Yes Dupont actively went to the French organizations and tell them he doesnt want to play in the South. Totally Dupont related.... The fantasies are strong here
So here is my question 🤔 if the top 14 ends a week before the July tests series, why not just start it a week or 2 earlier, so it ends a week or 2 earlier, and we can have the best of both worlds?
If the NH moves the 6N to the summer/autumn, we can compress the domestic season and this won’t happen. The players will also get better preparation for performance.
IMHO a “Test” should be strength against strength. We’ve watched ABs struggle all year with constrained selections, now the French follow suit. Is it time for World Rugby to step in, in the interest of the growth of the game ?
If France doesn't send their best team NZ should cancel the tour. I get that this is not new news from France but perhaps now is the time for NZ to take a stand.
Currie Cup Rugby Championship URC Little break Novemeber tests Back to URC But you wont hear SA players complianing even though they sacrifice the most. I cant be upset that I'll hardly see the Sharks at full strength because I know the players have given their all for the country and deserve the rest they have earned. Sortung out scheduling should be priority but ine thing SA has benefited from is give that URC experience to the next batch of players coming through and theres a lot, so through all this chaos they've been able to create the most competitive pool of players to pick from in world rugby.
New Zealand should field their u20's in November against France.
Yes please New Zealand we in South Africa would love it
@@mohau They might even do better. Good idea.
@@louismaloney6611 The Boks basically do the same thing!
@@fleshen Provide evidence
@@fleshen Not even close to being on the same level. Something like 80 different players in the past 7 tests for France. They've being doing it for years
The simple answer to me is, if France rightly want to rest their players, let them tour Tier 2 countries, let the other Tier 1 nations tour among themselves. Problem solved
Great point.
Their 2nd string players beat the Argentinians away this summer. They beat Australia in Australia 3 years ago. Their 3rd tier players ( France played 3 games within the span of 1 week this summer, the game vs Uruguay was sandwiched between both games vs Argentina, so no starters from the games vs Argentina were allowed to play against Uruguay ) gave Uruguay a beatdown. So their B Team beats the Argentinian side in Argentina, their C team pummels Uruguay in Uruguay. Tell me which problem needs solving again. Not playing tier 2 teams? Not being competitive vs tier 1 teams?
Are you joking? The French B team can beat most tier 1 nations. Didn't you watch this year in Argentina? I think you knew that. Just jadto get a stab in
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 The problem isn't about French 2nd strings beating Tier one nations, it's about money. It's very hard to market a tour if the incoming team isn't bringing their marquee names. 2nd string French teams can beat everyone they want, but your average punter wants to see Dupont, Ntamack et al. More specifically, they want to see France's absolute best playing NZ's absolute best.
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 AB's in NZ are not a newly coached Argy team. NZ will put 30+ on France. Those young Fra players will leave NZ knowing deep in their soul that they are not good enough, they were never good enough and are only used as fodder to prop up the billionaire owner rugby league that controls the FRU.
So unfortunate to hear that... Looking forward to our year end tour - SpringBok fan 🇿🇦
I'll be at Twickenham for SA. Should be a belter
@EggchasersRugby will you be supporting the boks though? Seeing as you are now a honorary South African 😂😂😂😂😂
This is why we love you Tim, top quality content!
New Zeeland should focus on themselves and maybe use this opportunity to give their young players an opportunity.
Devalue international rugby further. Awesome idea
They are focusing on their own interests. Incoming tours are a major source of income for a nation's rugby setup. Watered down teams reduce public interest and therefore income.
Correct
It's kinder hard to imagine Antoine dupont was selected world player of the year few years ago and the guy never play in new Zealand, Australia, Argentina and in south Africa 😮the guy merely selected from playing in domestic French league
As a French, I'm disgusted
What we want the most is to see Dupont play in New Zeland
but with this bastard of Galthié it may never happen...
that's really unfair, every fan in France woud love to see a game with NZ and France at their top
Dupont will never be considerated as a Legend if he doesn't play in NZ or SA, and this is sad
Definitely need to agree on a global international schedule. This is not the only problem that needs solving
100% exactly!
I think the reason the SH has so many WC's is because of the global season differences. Their guys peak at the WC and we peak March/April.
There are already two international windows.
France don't respect them now, so expecting the whole rugby world to change to accommodate French domestic rugby is pure arrogance.
@@SMacCuUladh Hahahahaha ... nice try. The real reason though is that the SH are just better. The end.
For the last 5/6 years all I’ve heard from the media, yourself included.
is how France are “unstoppable “ and how are others going to keep up with them.
Yet in the last 6 years they’ve won one six nations and lost two rwc quarters, one at home .
The french team glazing and Dupont glazing is so out of hand seeing as they bottle it when it matters in the six nations and World Cup .
Good points made. Professional rugby in France is run by the professionally owned clubs and here’s nothing in it for the clubs to have players in the National team. This seems to be how other professional sports are run. Most National rugby unions and World Rugby still seem to be stuck in the amateur era. The constant Law changes are another example.
Totally agree. Rugby is still ran like the amature days. The Clubs and private owners must take over the professional side of things. How can SA rugby decide who mush a rugby player can earn, or how much a team may spend on their players. Total B
Perfect opportunity for Razor to build depth. When life throws you lemons, make lemonade!
Imagine all the Southern Hemisphere teams sending 2nd string teams up North this November series what an uproar that would be.
Especially since players who compete in the Southern hemisphere play a lot less matches than those playing in the top 14 as it is :)
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 The reason super rugby season is shorter is so that the players can play in test matches. NZR and NZ Public believe That international Rugby Should be the pinnacle of the game
@@llewellynlamb9545 They’ve done that plenty of times in the past. Anyone thinking the teams against eg. Wales are going to be full strength sides are having a laugh.
@@Zveebo Name a single time a SH team have sent a B-team to play against another tier-one nation!? 🤘
We are sending the southern hemisphere’s 2nd string team up north. It is called the Wallabies.
As disappointing as it is, without your insight Tim, I’d have remained livid having just read the article on Planet Rugby. Once again Eggchasers delivers. Nous vous saluons.
Sending 2nd string players and winning the game😮 That will open a can off worms 😅
The word 'livid' is a very strong one, and we only have Will Kelleher's word that that is what NZ rugby have said. Yes, they may be disappointed but the press do tend to blow things out of proportion. It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
I'd be livid if it turned out that the press blew things out of proportion.
Why continue to schedule the games with France if we know this is their norm?
Ask Argentina why they lost to a B French side this summer, ask Australia why they lost to a B French side.
good point....the french are jus too chicken to play the SH teams period
@@TurtleFPL Good question to ask New Zealand Rugby. Their pretending they didn’t know this would be the case is a joke.
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 I'm more so questioning why NZ scheduled it and are reportedly outraged by the B team news...
Because it is a popular draw.
This is generated nonsense.
Nz knew what they were getting
Great video as usual. Thanks for all the work you do.
Thanks for shedding some light on the subject Tim. Very insightful.
I totally agree with you. There is too much rugby but then world rugby want to add more tournaments which is crazy.
Also this is how France blood new players which is no bad thing. I get the frustration but until world rugby get their heads straight, act like grown ups and sort it out it’s the way it will be.
Rugby is a global sport and need to compete for dollars, so no it is not to much rugby it's the old way of doing form amateur era that are creating problems. if rugby go the way of NFL with huge teams all these "problems" will be diminished
It would be amazing to see two full sides going head to head - classic rugby, BUT it's obviously not possible. Thanks Tim for putting it into perspective.
It happens every year during the November tests
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 I had no idea but it is what it is...
As a rugby mad kiwi, I didn't even realise the top 14 was at a different time... Hoping schedules get sorted out so we can have players like Dupont and others come to our shores. Our All Blacks don't want anything less other than the biggest challenge. Theres only one way to be the best
thanks for this clarification Tim... and your balanced view.
This is not a balanced review, it iis clearly biased towards the Top 14 French rugby.
@@nanderton9354 Rugby is dying in Wales and Australia, NZ are far from being the team they used to be, english rugby clubs are bankrupt, Ireland have only 4 provinces. Meanwhile, Top14 is the only domestic league that generates that much money, with huge crowds and TV audience (seriously, watch the amount of people and the crowd noise in Clermont, Toulon, Bayonne, La Rochelle, Bordeaux...). I even have friends in England watching Pro D2. For the International scene to thrive in the long term, we need strong clubs in every country, like in Football. France U20 have won 3 of the last 4 WC, and were in final this year. Top14 and Pro D2 pay for most of Tier 2 players wages (Georgia, Tonga, Fidji, Samoa, Italy before that...), Argentina still relies a lot on Top 14. They won the 7s Olympics. France won the last 4 HCup, and 3 of the last 4 Challenge Cups, with clubs like Toulon and Racing struggling to reach the Top 14 top 6. Their B team almost won the tour in Australia 3 years ago, won the tour in Argentina this year, their depth is matched only by SA, for now... Other country should look at what France is building, instead of complaining that Dupont is too scared to play south of the Equator... I mean, France hammered NZ the 2 last time they met, and Dupont captained the team that inflicted England its largest defeat at Twickenham (10-53). He also won in Dublin, thing that I don't recall NZ nor SA doing in recent years, while Wales won in SA in 2022, while Argentina won many times in NZ in recent years. Winning south is not something that would make you the GOAT (not saying that he is, but the argument that he can't be because of that doesn't make sense)
Hi Tim you asked why NZ require it's rugby players to play in Super Rugby? Well it means that you can control the length of their season and the amount of rugby they play. It also means that when they have an international tour, they have all those players available to select. You seem to think that it is down to New Zealand (and perhaps other Southern Hemisphere countries) to sort out an international window when internationals are played? Really can you imagine the current Six Nations format or timing being altered - I can't. You have been critical of NZ not allowing players who play in overseas leagues to play for the All Blacks. But you also noted (in this clip) that Argentian players who play for top 14 French clubs are too knackered to play for their country, as the season runs for 10 months. If your priority is to have top privately owned rugby competitions (as opposed to international competitions between countries) then I would agree with you. But given that three English private professional clubs have folded recently, is that the way you want rugby to go?
French club rugby is growing not shrinking and is financially sustainable.
English club management has managed to destroy hundreds of years of tradition.
What is going on??
That’s madness 😞
Thanks for your great content Tim
Thank you for the explanation . Looking at some of the comments below , some of us needed it . Great content ......as always .
From a french perspective, the potential end of the champions cup is the only thing that could change the french squad for summer tours
Exactly my thought!
Thing is - there is zero chance of clubs like Toulouse and La Rochelle agreeing to end the Champions Cup. While lower down in the Top 14 it’s not seen as of huge importance, for the top clubs they value it just as much as the Brennus (and the same remains true at the top end of eg. the URC).
The most that could be done there is some form of reform to make for a shorter contest. But then for sides like the English, losing European games would take a bit cut of all their competitive matches because their season is already so short.
the world doesn't have to bow down to top 14 , if france don't see value in playing NZ in NZ then the French national team brand loses and they lose experience, the confidence Ireland got from winning test matches in NZ and RSA can't be quantified, it's their loss
But if any other country tour France with a “B-team”, it will be regarded as disrespectful and a big ho-ha will be made by all of France.
every other major domestic league is structured around the international season -- why can't the top 14 do the same? everyone says the top 14 is too much of a grind. Can't they reduce the season, play fewer games?
Well given the draw for rwc will use the end of 2025 rankings this could potentially make France a 2nd seed team… Interesting
Great vid Eggie, all right points. Bottom line is : a total and global rescheduling have to be discussed. Else we're not going to change anything to the picture.
What the French decide to do is entirely up to them. Ireland took a 1st XV Test squad, shorn of some of their "star players", to New Zealand in July of 2022, and proved themselves to be competitive enough to be worthy of playing there. "Harden up bros", as you New Zealanders are 'want to say' 🏴☠☘
Yeah and then we mouthed off and made a bang average nz team out for revenge in the quarters and lost when it mattered.
So a journo is using the word Livid.... And everyone fell for it. 😂🤣😂🤣 NZRU have known for years this is what France does. Eden Park will still be packed and the world goes on.
If the plan is to develop a side to take the next world cup, then I suppose it makes sense. That being said a proper NZ vs FR series would have been great to watch.
The quality of the players is not the problem, it's New Zealands chance to generate revenue. They are been forced to market a reserve side. If you want to make it fair there needs to be a profit share on ticket sales both home and away.
Nz should start with their own domestic competition and the inability to attract crowds. They have a much bigger problem and that is their own negativity. Their old school policies are hurting them, but unlike the rest of the larger international teams building depth and developing people, they are stubborn and holding on to the old way of playing rugby. They are being left behind as a result, and then they throw their toys out the cot because they don't get what they want. Typical NZ, entitled.
@@Balance-v8xFrance will continue to lose world cups lol
@@Charlie-uz8vb so will nz
@Balance-v8x the ab's hav won 3 world cups,not bad😂,how many world cups hav France won out of 10 world cups.😂none😂😂
@@SteveEdwards-kh5hg have won is in the past tense
Perfect understanding of the context Tim. An analogy I would make with football competitions would be: Premier League (or La Liga for that matter) interrupting the money making circus to send the league's best 11 to Brasil for a 3 friendlies tournament.
A second string French side with nothing to lose against the All Blacks could be terrifying! It's terrible news for rugby fans but could be dangerous for kiwis.
Not likely
If B France team win at Eden park, humble kiwi pie, joy.
Absolutely right Tim, the French priority is Top 14, then ProD2, then the European Club championship, then the 6N, then the WRC.
Why shouldn't NZ be livid? They have every right to be and backing them up and being equally livid should be the French Rugby Union governing body. As you say, for the last 15 years France has been sending B. Sides south, accommodating their clubs and a chance to bread new talent, etc. How's that working out for them during RWC tournaments for the past 15 years? If the IRB wants rugby to grow internationally maybe they should be taking the bull by the horns on this issue and looking at ways to accommodate all sides with the input of all the Unions involved. I get big money is involved, but surely they figure a way forward. The Southern Hemisphere sides are constantly sending close to full strength sides north as they obligated to do and they win more often than not. Only one RWC has been won by a northern side, maybe they should take a leap out if the southern hemisphere teams playbook and schedule accordingly.
All fans are passionate about their club sides regardless of where they come from. Some are just not as vocal and as animated as others.
Lawes the second best blind in the world if he came back... I think Matera and a few others would have something to say about that. PSDT, definitely the best in the business in his position at the moment, and he and Colby are the two best players on the planet IMO as well.
I can see both sides. France are disrespecting international rugby by sending weaker teams, but NZ should have known this would happen because it's what they always do. Throwing a hissy fit now looks contrived.
@@Camcolitoagreed
France never promised to send a team.
Oh that sucks.
Didn't South Africa send a second XV to Argentina?
How many world cup winners in that team?
@@randomlyfactual1943 It makes sense that SA have a lot of world cup winners because they have, like, just won the last two world cups. Doesn't prevent a team from being second-string.
@@Camcolito good try, not a development team
I hate this thing of prioritizing the money making provincial leagues over international tours. Just like cricket, 3 game tours will start to die. We were already robbed of SA vs Ireland 3 and NZ vs Eng 3 this year. Perhaps we have no choice but to look at a Global calendar.
Good thoughts, nice to have a different perspective.
If NZR officials are ‘livid’ about this, they are even more stupid than I thought 😂
It would have been more of a shock if they had sent all their top players. They don’t do it. The Top 14 is their priority (the only competition being the Champions Cup for two or three of the top teams) - and the intensity and length of it is at level people who only follow minor short form contests like Super Rugby cannot understand.
Remember the Top 14 and Pro D2 earn more than every other rugby union league in the world *put together*.
You've neatly summarised some of the points I make!
I agree - France can send whoever they want - Their league earns huge sums of money. Prioritising that over and the end of year tour is sensible.
It's a news headline , so your obviously more stupid than you thought also🤣
Very insightful and informative vlog. It also left some random thoughts. Why do some countries persist in not picking players who play outside of their country ?
@@basildavidson4597 It’s an attempt to prop up the domestic game. Questionable whether it ever really works, but there’s quite a few places that engage in it. Even Ireland, albeit they are willing to make exceptions.
Honestly this is same old same old, same conversation every year, Northern Hemisphere sends second teams south due to domestic competitions, Southern Hemisphere sends tired full strength teams north at the end of our season. Does it help world rugby? well it doesn't hurt, youngsters get exposure and experience and in the last few decades the expected results were the same even if it was the first team, with competition getting closer a rethink might be necessary.
Great content Tim , agree with everything you have said . Just have to have a dig , so again everyone must stop their development plans etc to fit in with the New Zealand Rugby , what supreme arrogance on display . Again New Zealand chasing the money always chasing the money !
They are coming to NZ and NZ are chasing the money only France and England ( past ) have sent 2nd string development sides fking joke when you represent you go full strength or fking stay home period tired c..ts
I get it NZ has been kicking your asses for 120 years, so you would love it if NZ just went away. Of course, we are chasing the money we would not survive without it. France has a monster competition which is eating the Northern Hemisphere Unions. Then NZ tours France and theyput millions in the bank and pay NZ a pittance, then they send a second team to NZ to which will likely draw substandard revenue. NZ Might be about Chasing the money but the NH teams and France have it all.
@182Warren
to send a 2nd string development team is Supreme Arrogance on display especially when you represent your country england ireland France Italy when their masses come to a sellout national stadium to see their test 15 side play the Abs it won't be a 2nd string development team from NZ it will be a full strength All black squad fortunately for world rugby we don't cheapen the jersey and you get your money's worth. Stop talking smack
We're they the old NZ, I would be sorry. As it stands, I'm fine with it.
South Africa did the same with their cricket team earlier in 2024 and that was ridiculous as well. Respect your opponents!
Like the French care. . . it's known as a Gallic shrug for a reason. 🤷
"You do you, we'll do us."
If NZ opted for a long-term strategy to recapture Bill that displeased other Unions - do you think they'd change because of it. . .? I dont think they'd even care tbh. . .
As you rightly point out Tim - the NZRFU must've known what 'le crack' was regarding the French & their approach to end of season touring when the tour was first being negotiated/arranged. . .& If they didn't realise/know, then wtaf have they been doing? 🤔
I agree that this has been Frances SOP for the longest of time, however how has sending developmental teams to the south helped them? How many world cups have they won?
Its no wonder they look good up north, then fall short at the big dance mostly to Southern teams
Ireland have sent their best team vs South Africa this summer. How many world cups have they won? Let's not forget that so far the northern teams have won 1 WC total. Yet England, Wales, Ireland etc send their best players come summer tour.
France lost by 1 point last year in the WC, lost by 1 point in 2019 having played with 14 players after the 45th minute. When a team loses by such a slim margin, you can find a lot of different reasons, their inability to send their best players in summer would not be on top of the list.
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 credit to Ireland, they have made progress by winning in NZ and South Africa last few years. When was the last time France won in South Africa or New Zealand?
@@patanouketgersiflet9486 Maybe they lost by 1 point instead of winning by 1 point because they don't send their best players south to play blockbuster tests against the best in the world enough. Experience counts
@@patanouketgersiflet9486Let's forget about world cup wins. Let's just look at performance:
- by 2011, France made the semi finals in SIX of the first SEVEN RWC tournaments. Of these six, they made the finals THREE times.
- Since 2011 (and the spending sprees in particular) France has not advanced passed the quarterfinal stage.
- between 1980 and 2010, France has won something like 14 Six Nations titles, 3 of them being shared. In 2000-2010 France won the 6N FOUR times.
- Since 2011, France has won the Six Nations just once in thirteen years, in 2022.
So yeah, my assessment here is that the French torpedoed their own national rugby team. Is it because the seasons are too long? Is it because the clubs rule the roost? Is it because their top players are not playing in crunch games against the SH powers? Is it because they buy so much foreign talent that they've tanked their own player pool? Or is it a combination of all of these combined?
But yeah, no arguing with their results.
@@mfundomlumbi3214 It’s helped them have the biggest rugby market in the world, fully financially self-sustaining and profitable, while rugby union is slowly dying in New Zealand and several other SH countries.
So probably best not lecture them on how to run rugby.
You nailed it yet again, Tim. NZ simply don’t have a case, so it’s much ado about nothing. If only every rugby nation had the same strength in depth at club level as France, the game would be in a much healthier state finances-wise, with more and players earning a decent living wage. PS, didn’t hear any USA Rugby complaints when a “weaker” Scottish side toured there earlier this year
USA are terrible and don't have a reason to complain about a second string team showing up because they'll still get trounced by the second-stringers.
Change the group stage of the Champions Cup, make them all league based. So the Champions cup groups would consist of teams from just their respective leagues. So for example if Leinster play Munster in the season, it should count for the URC and Champions Cup groups, which would be great for the promotion of those games, because they mean more, you can have 1 a week in every league, make it a feature game for the weekend. That would shorten the top 14 and all other leagues by 4 weeks. Gives the perfect window for an incoming series.
I agree
That would be a poor system
@@Jeffisawesome536 You make so many great points, thanks.
The tours are how most of the unions make their money. NZ needs big tours to make money, if you send a second team then the revenue will be lower. Second rate teams just don't draw crowds. As for this idea that NZ should have all our best players playing in France that is madness, why would we want to make French rugby all powerful. Do you really think New Zealand fans are getting up in the middle of the night to watch? If this happens New Zealand will become a League country. You NH countries need to decide if you want international rugby to be the pinnacle of the sport or a French league to be the top level. You should have curbed the power of the clubs before, now you are going to continue to be beholden to the.
to say Argentinian don't have a team without Top 14 is crazy l, there's other leagues out there
Tim... how about a discussion on the policies of England and NZ on not selecting overseas players? As a South African, it makes no sense to me that these players are not eligible to play for their national side. In this day and age, I think it's very short sighted. Have I got the wrong end of the stick here? Your thoughts?
Super rugby in NZ would loose too many ABs overseas if we did and professional rugby would colapse in NZ. Plus we don't actually need the overseas players. People have just jumped on that train as a knee jerk reaction this year. The players that were talked about, we don't need Frizell because now we have Satiti. We don't Smith because with have Roigard and Ratima. And Mounga was never actually that great for the ABs so we'll stay with the players in NZ and not drain Super Rugby for the sake of a few players we don't actually need.
I think it is a crazy rule. It’s like telling Kane he can’t play for England because he is now playing in Germany. 🤔
@@Hatunrumioc @anthonylees5735 I agree that professional rugby would likely collapse in NZ, I think NZ would quickly become a League country. We would likely have 3 NRL teams in NZ. Of course, every other country would love that.
From an England POV, it's to bolster and protect the domestic teams we have, and we're not missing too much when it comes to players who are ineligible. Tim mentions Lawes in this video but we're not starved for options in the back row (Tim himself has talked up Hill in the past year - a name not involved currently). Faz is a bit of a miss but Ford is ideally suited for how we want to play and the two Smiths have ceilings they've not yet got to, so we're good there. Just picking England based players give more control too. Considering Willis, he was one of the names on that final teamsheet that Tim shows in this video, which means Borthwick can't reasonably pick him for the summer tour. Is Willis that much better at 7 than Curry or Curry or Evans or Pepper or Earl, when the lack of control is factored in? Or if Willis is picked at 6, is he better than Hill or CCS or Chessum, who are some of the England based options.
Another thing to point out too... How might Lawes or Faz feel if they were still eligible for England and their salary dropped partially because their respective clubs don't have the assurance that they're free for international windows? Idk, I'm guessing there are England players in France who enjoy this aspect of not having to officially retire from internationals.
Also logistically, NZ is incredibly isolated. It's a lot easier to gather the squad in Wellington for a few days training from around NZ then to try and fly guys back from Europe.
Things we need to sort out:
- Global season
- Less URC and/or ERC matches
- Shorter Top 14
The best players need to be available for every test match as a non-negotiable. This watering down is not good for rugby at all. They play an insane amount of rugby in France, so we need doctors to give medical analysis on it and get courts to force the above happening. This is a much different sport than soccer, but France are treating it as if it's exactly the same and like players can play 11.5 months a year, it's just way too physical for that.
I agree with scrapping the ERC as is, and then just 6 URC teams, 4 Premiership teams, and 6 Top 14 teams duelling it out in an FA Cup-style knockout, 4 rounds only and the winner is the European champion.
Toulose played 28 matches in the top 14 last year, Bordeaux played 29, and a further 8 in the ERC. That is too much for their players, they can reduce that to 15/16 if they play just a single round. I know it's the money maker for them, but why not put more money into the national team? It would be far better for advertising if they beat the All Blacks in New Zealand than any domestic cup will. They are going the F1 mistake route of "more is better", it's a bit mental.
Mark my words, if we don't sort this big bottleneck of matches in Europe, it's going to burst the bubble eventually.
I don’t think the NZ officials were “livid”. The Ab are probably just disappointed they can’t play them at their best like the Bokks did in the 2023 WC.
Thanks for the explanation but it shouldn’t be like this, the crowds in NZ and SA and Australia and Argentina deserve to see the very best that France can bring. So yes I agree that they need to tear up the schedule and start again.
2nd best blindside flanker in the world? I think Taigh Byrne might have something to say about that TIm.
France has so many good players i wouldnt call it a B team as much an A minus team
It does make a mockery of the IRB ranking system.
Excellent observations. World Rugby, are you listening?
France can pick whoever they want .. just like NZ can .. maybe good for both sides to get inexperienced players to get experience
@@christianmccann9400 This is way too rational a comment for the internet lol
So France not caring about rankings?
Hello, thanks for the video! However, being french and a fan of rugby since basically I was born I have to contradict you. If you asked french club fans (I'm a Stade Français fan) if they would rather their club team win top 14 or the french team win the World Cup there is no doubt in my mind the vast majority would say world cup. These are not remotely comparable, the world cup is the biggest event in the sport and all french fans agree. However, if you asked them between their team winning the top 14 and the french team winning an exhibition game then sure there will be a lot of people saying top 14.
I was pretty upset with France but thank you for putting this in perspective. I totally agree that all the unions need to come together and sort out the calendar.
Instead of Champions cup, have a 5 team tournament with the winners from each big league (including Japan) so that the Unions can get an idea of where their club level is at and it's still a nice top level club competition but doesn't take so much time.
But I do think the other top teams should just not schedule series against France if they know this is their MO.
France b team is strong because of strong club game.
maybe the southern hemisphere to send B teams in Novemeber?
They often do.
Hi @EggchasersRugby, great work as always. Please plug FR-UK Rugby more often. The work on that channel is great and its criminal that it doesn't get more attention
The chance to create a global season was in 2020 when leagues across the world were delayed, shortened, or cancelled entirely because of the pandemic. So taking advantage of the disruption already created by that. Can't see it happening any time soon.
Thanks Tim
Very good point Tim
Thanks for giving me insight to the French domestic league. NZ and other countries that have policies on overseas based players should take a leaf out of football and SA rugby. Let players earn their max potential and select from there. SA can point to many players that improved when playing for max money. Rugby must understand that national teams are the pinnacle but that means they must play less not more. Can't get best out of players if they are fatigued. Football shows that quality improves only if players are allowed to earn max.
More often than not SA send a second string to Dublin to play Ireland in Autumn - Tim talks sense ❤
It would be funny if France sends the B+ team and still gives ABs a run for their money.....😅
This is exactly why France will never be world cup winners nor will Dupont ever be the goat... they can be as magical as they want against mid level opponents but they never do it against the big boys...
Test series should live by its name: "test" and I think the problem for NZ is that they kinda live in a different world, because THEY do need money and exposure a lot more than any other rugby nations.
"2nd strings" players are usually (almost) matching the level of prime counterparts only missing some automations (and that's valid for all big rugby nations). They too deserve international exposure, and that can only be beneficial for unions.
Player welfare should come first and always. It's not only logical, but it's also necessary for prime players to develop.
NZ A team players have a chance to play vs South Africa on a yearly basis.
French should be the one jealous of not having such opportunity, set aside now European games.
I agree with you Tim, this is nothing new, France always do this.
Will be interesting to see who they select for the November games.
It will also be interesting how it effects their ranking and draw for the World Cup come next year
In November they select their best, been that way forever
Fully agree, if thats the rules, doent blame the player.
Well Du Pont will be forced to play on the south come 2027. If he refuses to play outside of europe how can he ever be considered the "Goat"
Yet another one who was sleeping in the back. He does not refuse, he's not selected. Tim spent 10 minutes explaining why.
The Top14 is the toughest club competition in the world in terms of schedule and overall difficulty. Add in the european competitions, the 6 nations, and the top French players play many more matches than most southern sides.
I think it's a pity that the French team doesn't play together more, I think that's what they're missing, but the risks of injuries or simply fielding exhausted players is too much.
That's always going to be a difficult jigsaw puzzle to put together. Because France is traditionally one of the strongest sides in the world, but since the big money came into play, there has been a noticeable decline in performance:
- Whereas France made six of the first seven world cup finals, they've not been in a semi since 2011
- Where France dominated the Six Nations, they've only won one tournament since 2011
- They've taken some record hidings in their away fixtures.
But then, I also get the club side: France has the richest and arguably the toughest league in the world and these players are being paid millions. To just hand them over for France to go on tour and torpedo their own chances at glory is also asking quite a lot of the private ownership!
It's a very difficult problem to approach and I hope to God that the unions can sit together and come up with a solution.
Chicken ...
If I were NZR, I would rather invite a team like Scotland, Wales or Ireland over, who respect Test Level rugby more than domestic rugby business like the French Union. No hate towards the French, but if they don't care about the test level as much as the money in the Pro14, then they shouldn't occupy a test series in NZ which other nations would kill to have the opportunity to go on.
Very well put and totally agree.
The French are pathetic
@@Rugby2000 NZ have chosen not to invite Scotland for a test in many many years, because they don’t view them as a sufficient draw (and there is no tour scheduled in the future). That’s been entirely their call.
(And Scotland won’t send their Top 14 players on a southern summer tour either, incidentally - the only difference is there is only a handful of them, rather than the majority)
France does not look at irrelevant details (like deciding who the GOAT is), they know that they already have a good chance in the next few years to win the world cup both for the players they currently have and for the young players who arrive, and they will have an even better chance if they continue to build a strong team for the next world cup. Despite the recent failure at the 2023 world cup, they remain one of the richest nations and therefore prefer to lose some spectators in the stands but have a bigger gain in the long term.
Okay I see what you are saying..
makes sense..
Perhaps RSA, Aus and NZ should not include France in their end of year tours? Or require that the French pay more for them to play to make up for the shortfall in income caused by second tier players being fielded mid year. The French team may win the mid year tests but people want to see the best players playing and there is a financial impact on income.
It's not about the French team. New Zealand could have arranged a tour with another country instead. If the French want to focus of the top 14 that's great but then they shouldn't expect the other nations to play them in July tests
This is why rankings should be used as a system to a golf handicap type situation in world cups. You should benefit from having a better ranking
And France want the world to listen when they have complaints?
I believe the best approach for World Rugby is to convene the top 20 countries and agree to establish domestic leagues that run concurrently. This way, when it's time for international tests, all teams can compete against each other, reflecting the global nature of the sport. Additionally, we could schedule the women's rugby season to start when the men's players are on holiday, keeping fans engaged and entertained in the interim.
Super Rugby is small and shorter comp. Top 14 is worth hundreds of millions and takes 9+ months. I would LOVE what you say to happen. Financial realities get in the way.
Domestic e.g Premiership Rugby
10 Clubs in League
18 Fixtures/Week Season (Home & Away simple epl style none of this semi final bs)
4 Weeks Holiday
4 Weeks Pre Season Training
International
10 Countries Per Division
18 Fixtures/Week Season (Home & Away simple epl style none of this semi final bs)
#1 Promotion
#10 Relegation
4 Weeks Holiday
4 Weeks Pre Season Training
Establishing concurrent domestic leagues will enhance the competitiveness of rugby. During international duty, countries can continue their domestic competitions, similar to New Zealand's NPC or South Africa's Currie Cup. This approach keeps players who aren't selected for the national team actively engaged, allowing them to improve their skills rather than sitting idle at home. Moreover, these domestic leagues play a crucial role in spotting talent, as they provide opportunities for younger players to develop. For example, many of Bok players have emerged from the Currie Cup.
This is the example
@EggchasersRugby ok France aside can't this work with the other nations, I know this will kill six nations and rugby championship, Pacific championship but to grow the game it has to happen
To grow the game? I tought all we needed to do was change the ball in play time to grow the game? You telling me it was a lie? We have to do something else? 😂
I have been involved in growing the game. There is only one way you grow the game. It is to go into communities and make the game available. They need to be coached and have the opportunity to play themselves. I coached in South Africa, even in South Africa you still have to take the game to the communities. They don't care about watching it. They want to play. Real love for the game only starts when you play the game.
Dupont being called the GOAT but he refuses to play in the Southern Hemisphere sums up how ridiculous his hype train is ..
He refuses nothing. Unfair comment. Players aren't machines you know.
@@nicolasmaligner8753 He made his debut in 2017 and has only played 25 mins of rugby in the Southern Hemisphere. Stop making him sound like a victim of circumstance. We all know he is wrapped in cotton wool when it comes to playing in the South
@@desttu9531 Yes Dupont actively went to the French organizations and tell them he doesnt want to play in the South. Totally Dupont related....
The fantasies are strong here
Over hyped for sure
@Impl0ze93 so he wants to play in the Southern Hemisphere and his schedule just doesn't allow it?? Give me a break, we know he is being sheltered
Reciprocate and field development teams against their touring team....
So here is my question 🤔 if the top 14 ends a week before the July tests series, why not just start it a week or 2 earlier, so it ends a week or 2 earlier, and we can have the best of both worlds?
If the NH moves the 6N to the summer/autumn, we can compress the domestic season and this won’t happen. The players will also get better preparation for performance.
Just do not give them anymore tours if that’s the case. One off games an that’s it
IMHO a “Test” should be strength against strength. We’ve watched ABs struggle all year with constrained selections, now the French follow suit. Is it time for World Rugby to step in, in the interest of the growth of the game ?
If France doesn't send their best team NZ should cancel the tour. I get that this is not new news from France but perhaps now is the time for NZ to take a stand.
The French club structures that are amazing as you say they are, haven't managed to win them s World Cup.
Apples and oranges
Plot twist… New Zealand sends out the Black Ferns to play this French development team. And the Black Ferns end up smoking them 😂
Stop inviting them to tour to the SH!
NZ have wrapped top players like Dan Carter up in cotton wool previously, I guess the difference here is in scale. Global season is a key issue.
Tu as tout dit et tout bien compris. Le Trophée du Brennus est bien plus vieux que la coupe du monde. On y accorde donc beaucoup plus d'importance ;-)
World Cup is in 2027 in Australia.
Like 2015, like 2019, like 2023, my money is going to be on them falling at the quarterfinal hurdle again.
Currie Cup
Rugby Championship
URC
Little break
Novemeber tests
Back to URC
But you wont hear SA players complianing even though they sacrifice the most. I cant be upset that I'll hardly see the Sharks at full strength because I know the players have given their all for the country and deserve the rest they have earned.
Sortung out scheduling should be priority but ine thing SA has benefited from is give that URC experience to the next batch of players coming through and theres a lot, so through all this chaos they've been able to create the most competitive pool of players to pick from in world rugby.