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HeyCara, good video as always, but why you said nothing about cancelled Cold War game from Paradox named "East vs West: A Hearts of Iron Game"? There was no any Cold War game released or even announced from Paradox in almost a decade since then (EvW was suspended in March 2014).
I’ve been watching paradox RUclips so long I still remember Arumba started as Arumba07, Alex started as a total war player and ISP…well he has a better mic.
You mean ISP becoming a mainstream normie more and more. I still remember him making actual surreal funny content, what was creative, now he just churns out the similar crap over and over again and the only reason I don't condemn him completely is because, unlike many PDX youtubers, he still have agency and can say no, or criticise their shitty new products freely. However, Mountain General basically took over the spot he held.
If only RUclips allowed videos to be patched, then we could get "the entire history of Paradox Interactive, i guess v1.1" once March of the Eagles 2 drops
I often say to my friends, "Paradox games don't have a learning curve. It's a learning wall. Once you get over the wall, there is the fun. " That's less true with newer releases, but it's still not easy to just pick it up 😂
y'all i'm finally back with the most ambitious video i've ever made- THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF PARADOX INTERACTIVE. (i rly underestimated how much work this video would take 😭) let me know how i did y'all! i rly hope you like this video with how much work and brain cells went into it 💓
My journey with Paradox Interactive had started in 2006 when my father bought a bundle of games that included the first Hearts of Iron (just titled "World War 2" on the game box), Europa Universalis 1 and Crusader Kings 1, I was 6yo at the time. One day I was watching him play HoI1 and asked if I could play too, but he told me that "the game would be too hard for me", it was super challenging for him too (I actually installed it many years later too and the game is just stupidly convoluted in how it does things) Instead, he gave me the copy of Europa Universalis, and I spent that entire summer just playing it. A year later in 2007 EU3 came out, and I had basically been hooked ever since. It really hurts me to see how far Paradox had fallen in recent years.
@@fitzhadha Post ~2018 for certain. Stellaris has been gutted by Wiz, CK2 ended its development with CK3 being massively behind in terms of new content, EU4 became highly derivative with no new ideas, Imperator Rome was a massive flop same with Vic3. HoI was probably the only franchise without any major issues as far as I'm aware. Although, with what they had done recently I think they're trying to go back to their roots, even the most ignorant corporats had to notice the drop in quality over the years.
Super big thank you for making this. I've been wanting something like this to just be up. So an even bigger thanks for making it so well structured and with a fair take and up front takes. Got just two reflection points here: - PDX community feels a bit like the FromSoft community, both communities passionate about steep entry games that are there to actually also help bring ppl into them - Before the youtube video Let's Play boom, there actually was a tradition of AARs on the forums (After Action Reports) which you can probably still find some, and this was Let's Play diaries in written blog form.
One interesting Paradox history thing that wasn't in the video was all the modder-made games tweaking their mainline games that Paradox published. Some were really solid products that really improved on the original game (Darkest Hour) and some were unmitigated disasters (Magna Mundi).
Their gradual shift to a DLC bank machine killed it for me. As far as my good feelings for Paradox, CK2 was the peak. And even then the shift to a DLC bank machine was apparent.
Regarding the Drakar & Demoner kickstarter, it was not really a fan made one, but one made by a, by tabletop RPG standards, pretty large company, and there's some continuity with the old Äventyrsspel-staff and the staff of Fria LIgan/Free League (who made the new Drakar & Demoner/Dragonbane). Entering the 90's Äventyrsspel was aiming for a more international audience with games such as Mutant Chronicles, Kult and Chronopia, which is as far as I know why they changed their name. No longer were they content with serving primarily the Swedish market, with a few things getting localized in other Nordic countries. They released trading card games and miniatures wargames as well as tabletop RPGs. Kult was incidentally a game that caused the Swedish counterpart to the satanic panic. It was not as widespread, but before that tabletop RPGs were primarily sold in toy stores, but thanks to the controversy of that game that stopped being the case (that game should in all honesty never been sold in toy stores, it is a game that earns its age rating). Target Games did end up releasing more games than those mentioned. Most of which were, to be honest, pretty bad. It's because of this that you can actually see the Paradox logo on some releases of Dragonfire: The Well of Souls, a lackluster CRPG based on Drakar & Demoner. Also Svea Rike was directly based on a board game with the same name. So making digital adaptations/interpretations of board games was something that the people at Paradox had some experience with once they started working on Europa Universalis. They would also later go on to make a very poorly received adaptation of the board game Diplomacy.
It seems fitting that Paradox has gotten table top role play games by White Wolf Publishing (Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, ect) considered what they originally sold
Great video! Only thing I'd add would be the impact that Susana Meza Graham had at Paradox in the early days (up to 2018), finishing up as COO, and is a wonderful lady who I'm delighted to know.
Ive known of your channel for years, but ive not taken the time to stop by and give a proper watch. Im glad i took the time to watch because you can be extremely proud of this video and yourself. This has got to be your magnum opus right? Ill stick around and i hope to see even more great videos from you soon :)
A minor point you missed is the "why" on the later failures. The older ones were good, but the latter ones... In many cases this is because Paradox is publicly traded and obscures them for that reason, but in the case of CS2 being publicly traded that's actually the problem too - they pushed it early to compensate for an otherwise bad quarter. That allows for the short-term growth that being publicly traded requires, but it has greatly undermined the game in the long term, which is inconsistent with Paradox's traditional appeal. I didn't really think Victoria 3's release was that bad, especially in comparison with how positive you were about the CK3 release (which was better, sure, but definitely not without complaint). I don't think Paradox has had a universally loved release since CK2. Millennia can ABSOLUTELY challenge CIv 6. The aesthetic might be bad but the gameplay is incredibly solid. Fireaxis hasn't done anything on this level of quality since Civ 4, which is barely less then twenty years ago. And no other big 4x game has cropped up in that time either. Poor art design can make a big difference but for 4x it's a much lower priority, and once you start playing that doesn't interfere with your enjoyment at all.
I play Paradox games since EU1, so this video made me a bit emotional. I love to stare at maps, and I love to interact with them. Paradox gave my cartographically nerdy personality so much joy, that I will always love them. Not as a company, but as a phenomenon, that sparked so much bright in my otherwise dark life. And I consider recent rise of a genuinely fun and supporting community, as a mark of new awesome era. Love ya all gals'n'guys, let's keep staring on maps together forever.
I really appreciate the research and hard work that went into this video, Cara. Very informative about the company who produces all these fantastic games which eat up tons of our time and brings us nerds together! Cheers!
Now that's a cool video! And you're a cool person for making it, Cara. Keep on painting those maps! I'll be going back to restoring the glory of Rome in CK3.
The issue with victoria 3 isn't because the warfare system is now "bad" because its less micromanagey because it still is. It's bad because it does not fullfill its own stated goal of shifting the focus from commanding armies to capability and military preparation. One of the major considerations was so that the player can't cheese the AI, but that was and still is easier to do than otherwise. That and the diplomacy system. Outside of those two realms, the foundation that it is built on - the socioeconomic simulation - is unlike anything I've ever seen and Vic2 does not even hold a candle to. I have strong hopes for the game ☺️
Hey Hey Cara, Two important things that maybe you didnt know about or missed. The first is that while RUclips content creators are great ( EUIII). So many what we called AARs back then. Hours of stories and tips wrapped into the second thing you didnt hit on. The second thing is magical jank of early to mid Paradox games. CKIII is way to stable, the world is way to stable, the game play is professional and restrained. In original CK the craziest shit happened and that meant that reading someone else's AAR was mindbending. I really hope as CKIII drops the legends/disease dlc the game at least moves in that direction. Historical games are great. Games that allow us to feel what history might have felt like a bit differently each time was magic.
Äventyrsspel did not develop there own rule set for Drakar och Demoner as they use Basic role-playing from Chaosium that is best know for Call of Cthulhu rpg. They switch to a new in house developed system with the fourth version that is called Drakar och Demoner Expert.
Aww nostalgic! I remember all the mini games in Svea Rike from way back. Europa universalis great northern war was really cool as well. Chariots of war was really fun :).
Wow, I'd seen Drakar och Demoner here in Sweden but I didn't know the history of it. Early CK2 really was the golden age, especially before Rajas Of India - every single DLC before that had a great release. I think the CK3 DLC packaging model is a lot better though. Also Hearts Of Iron had a very difficult release history - HoI1 had to compete with Axis&Allies, HoI2: Doomsday had a game-breaking issue with ghost fleets for many months (while facing intense competition from Making History), HoI3 had loads of stability issues, HoI4 was delayed by over a year after the initial release date. Stellaris' turn-around is incredible given they went from no 4X games to having one of the best (while having huge competition from Galactic Civilizations) - but Shadow Empire is still the best right now with the logistics system. It would have been interesting to cover the modder interactions more too - Wiz was the creator of CK2+ before being hired, DDRJake was a content creator before being hired. Magnus Mundi and East vs. West were both planned spin-offs created by modder teams that failed, although Darkest Hour succeeded and is well regarded (there is also Arsenal Of Democracy and For The Glory). And now CK3 sells the modder asset packs which they plan to expand. In general I think they really struggle with the balance between releasing unfinished games to have players to justify further development via DLC (Victoria 3), and investing a lot in development but then struggling to release (HoI4) or ending up with still no players (Imperator 2.0). Maybe they could make more use of early access and community feedback like Baldur's Gate 3 did (although KSP2 has faced a lot of backlash trying that). BTW for published games you missed the Stellaris spin-offs like Star Trek: Infinite and Stellaris Nexus. The latter one is really good (and also their only game to use Early Access AFAIK).
really, really enjoyed this entire video. Massive paradox fan so it was nice to see some wee tidbits here and there but yeah. The full picture here was very much appreciated and I agree with you there. You gotta talk about both good and bad. Having a bit of an existential crisis remembering that I got into EU3 back in high school. Time is doing its thing
entirely random documentary is great but mildly sad you didnt learn a language solely to play svea rike (not realising it was all in swedish was funny)
vic 2 was in the same place as imperator you still see awesome modding work done on it to this day and a big MP community, but idk if we'll see a vic 3 style entry to imperator
Hey Cara (or hey HeyCara?), there was also The Lamplighters League between Vic3 and CS2, which costed 20+mil, was very unsuccessful and is already abandoned (and their developers are not working with Paradox anymore). So not two but three of their last projects were pretty bad or at least below people's expectations.
Really enjoyed this video, I never really thought about it until I got sucked into ck3 last October but I've been playing paradox games off and on since Vicky 2. I know many gamers aren't into the idea that companies have to make money to make games but you have to actually pay staff and give value back to investors. In an age of basically everything being a pure rip off and absolute slop, and as someone with a job that pays above poverty (which yeah I get it I'm 'lucky' I don't live in the Anglosphere anymore), I don't mind supporting Paradox for doing something that has kept me entertained for an embarrassing number of hours. Making my hundredth Kingdom of Cornwall feels just as good.
My favorite paradox games are CK2 and HoI4, CK2 is a funny stonry lol. One day at school, I was looking up an old browser game I suddenly remembered and ended up in a ck2 wiki talking about how putting your wife as a spymaster is a good idea, I ignored it and forgot about it for years. Come my time at university and since I didn't have any income to speak of, I sailed the seas, found CK2 by pure chance and decided to download it since what little info I found was interesting and I began to play it daily. I think I started just after conclave dlc. Once I finally got a part time I officially got the game and later on even tried HoI4, wich I play a lot more of nowadays. I've played EU4, not that good at it but I was able to form Italy after 2 coalition wars and reach the age of revolution just before the Ottoman stomped me. I've come to really like paradox and their games, CK3 was to me the best release they ever did since it came out basically complete and stable compared to what they usually do. But man Vic3 for me has been a wild ride, after months of playing and failing to understand it, I decided to try Vic2 and actually found it more fun and easier to learn.
So, this might be a bit of an unstructured rant... but damn this hits in the nostalgia. Being a geeky 11-year old in 1997 Svea Rike was one of my very first PC-gaming experiences. Basically we got to play whatever my dads more tech-savvy younger co-workers had pirated for him, and Svea Rike just happened to be one of those games, as it was one of very few games availible in swedish and... well, let's just say my own 10-year old daughter in 2024 speaks fluent english. I didn't when I was 10... so it was one of my favourites, as it was one of the few games I could just 'understand' without having to randomly click at stuff and figure it out from there. So I felt a pang of symphaty for you in the moment you realised that it was only in swedish as that was how most of my early gaming experience was with everything being in english. I had been learning english in school for only a year, 1 hour per week, at that point and wasn't anywhere near fluent enough to manage text-heavy games. Although I played through Baldurs Gate 2 and I think I understood *most* of it just 3 years later. Children do be picking up languages quickly. Despite being an avid strategy gamer (mainly Age of Empires, the early Total War-games and Red Alert) as a teen I actually missed the entire early era of Paradox, EU 1 & 2, CK1 as well as HoI 1-3 and Victoria, only getting back into it with EU3 in highschool and EU: Rome while I was in university. I still have the EU: Rome Ceasar-bust that came with the early boxed versions of the game looking down at me by my PC right now. I don't know if that was just a thing in Sweden though. It wasn't advertised or anything, the store clerk just got it for me from under the counter with a shrug and said "I guess you should have this too." kinda randomly. I did manage to find it on amazon with the collectors edition box of the game, although unavailible to buy, but no mention of it anywhere else so it must be pretty obscure. To be fair EU: Rome didn't leave to much of a mark on the gaming world, but I adored it. I went into the PDX-forums and looked at my post history and my first post was a bug-report in 2007 for EU3, so it was somewhere around there I "joined the PDX community" I guess. Never left since. Next up was CK2 obviously. I don't remember now where I learned about it, but I played from version 1.0 and everything that came after. My first game was as William the Conqueror. I very distinctly remember trying to use my navy to block the english channel, EU3 style, so they wouldn't counter-attack into Normandy and being shocked to realise that wasn't a thing as the saxons started to siege down my land. And yeah, the game was really bare-bones back in the start. People who complained CK3 lacked content at launch either weren't there, or can't remember, CK2 at launch. And being sold facepacks for each ethnicity... in conflicting art-styles no less! Yeah, it's easy to look back at the finished product of CK2 and love it, but it really was a gem in the rough at the start. Only 10 years of development made it what it was, and even with that there were a lot of questionable DLC. People keep pining for them but I don't think I've played a campaign past 5 in-game years as either a steppe-horde or a republic. Only played one longer campaign as muslim, and that was for achivment-hunting. The fast pace of DLC came at a price of quality, and the really good DLC was really released after that initial rush, things like Monks and Mystics and The Reapers Due. Although the music was on point from day 1. I still wouldn't play CK3 without the CK2 music-mod. According to steam my last game was in September 2022. I think I was playing the Elder Kings mod, in preparation for the CK3 version release, if memory serves. Over 2000 hours over the course of a decade. I was actually even in the closed beta for Holy Fury, playing it as early as 6 months before release. Best DLC released, hands down, no bias of course, even if there actually is an mechanic that was put into the game straight from one of my suggestions and I'm in the "Special thanks to" in the credits. :D I had about 300 hours in addition in that version of the game that PDX removed from my steam-account after the closed beta was over. Going on the ck2 subreddit was hell during those months as I had an NDA and I just kept wanting to correct people in speculation threads... Quill18 and Arumba was also probably my first subscriptions on YT too after TotalBiscuit (RIP) and I followed all their campaigns for years. Probably cemented YT as my primary source of lazy entertainment to be honest. After CK2 I've been on every hype-train, from watching the live announcment shows to the live release-streams. Haven't missed one. Speaking of the games PDX actually *makes*, they do still to this day publish a lot of shit, although not as bad as it used to be. Only thing I disagree with you on is IR. Yeah, version 1.0 was boring. It wasn't the game I wanted. But it was the game that was very clearly advertised. No one that had followed development gets to play shocked over being delivered exactly what Johan had been trying to sell us for months. I'm totally on his side there, he wanted to make a boardgame-like experience and a map-painter and he did. It was exactly the game they had told us it would be. It was totally bug-free and everything worked perfectly as it was supposted to. The issue was that for whatever reason the fanbase seems to have missed entirely what it was supposted to be. All that being said, yeah, it wasn't the game most people wanted, and had it stayed in that state I probably would have given it 50 hours and forgotten about it. But the guys who picked it up really made it into the game we wanted from the start and I have currently 750 hours in it. It wasn't abbandoned at the drop of a hat, it was lovingly re-made from it's original vision into the very thing many of us wanted it to become from the start, not just a map-painter but a civilisation-builder. Only then was development dropped, which is no wonder seeing the player-numbers at that point. And with Invictus it's in a fantastic state to this day. Shoutout to all the "lets bring IR back in 2024"-youtubers. Also, one small correction... while it is true that Paradox did publish Prison Architect that was only AFTER the original studio that created the game, Introversion, sold it to them after completing it. They dumped it with a third-party dev who kept releasing DLC that only made the game worse. Honestly, it was a perfect game, and everything added to it after Paradox aquired it has made it worse. Luckily you can roll back the version to the last version that Introversion released to this day, the 2018 version of the game, and disable your DLC. If there is anything I hold against Paradox, on a pure personal level, it's how they let that game be butchered by those hacks and I'll be damned if I buy their version of PA2, they do not deserve that name. After following Chris and Mark on their dev-diary/early access videos for literal years of development that game holds a special place in my heart, and people who loves PA should be buying their new game, the Last Starship, not PA2. Out of pure spite I hope it's a shit game, and gets shit reviews and is then forgotten. As it stands PDX games hold 7 of the top 10 spots of my most played games on steam, and that is with a library of 200 games, and neither EU3 or EU: Rome is on there even though they probably should as I bought those in boxes in ye olden pre-steam days. This video was both a trip down memory lane as well as an update on what went on in the years I missed between 2000-2007. So thanks for making this video. I can't imagine anyone else but you doing it justice.
One of the best examples of Paradox games being an incredible outlet for creativity would be the AARs for them, particularly on the Paradox Forums. They really showcased the appeal of these games and the imagination of the people playing them. Also, without the Flagland AAR Ulm would just be another German OPM instead of the meme it is today.
I remeber yeara ago when the og extracredits did an episode suggesting eu4, made me inmediatly buy it but it was quill18 who taught me how to play, this was during quill18 art of sweden campaing, good times
I love the Imperator Rome map graphics. I wish they had implemented them in their newer games. The only thing I dislike about Vic3 is the way warfare works. I want my units Paradox, please give them back...
Cara I'm from the future and I can confirm, we get EUV, HOI5, Stellaris II, Imperator Rome II, Teleporters, Replicators, flying cars and most importantly, March of the Eagles II; all before GTA6, Elder Scrolls VI and Star Citizen get released.
Oh man, some of those old games. Found EU2 on the shelf of an Electronics Boutique store at the mall, then heard some buzz about HoI1 and went digging around random stores for like a year before I could actually find a copy. Asking "Hey, do you have a copy of this random nerdy Swedish strategy game?" in 2003 was not always a recipe for success, let me tell you. Then I finally found a copy, and...my god, that tech tree.
When we get into corporation territory from the good old dedicated people in a garage, things go... well usually not great. I hope this also gets solved in the future.
HOI4 is not my favorite paradox game, but it's incredible how it made Paradox truly main stream for a first time. It surpassed Paradox's flagship EU4 and the game has constanly over 50k daily peak on Steam.
Well, his pseudonym *is* Angry Joe. Also, this is a reference to what a RockPaperShotgun journalist said to Peter Molyneux. And I don't know about Joe, but I am *still* annoyed at the way how PI abandoned Sword of the Stars 2. Kerberos (= the devs) are partially to blame too, but supposedly they had two of a small team getting into a road crash...
oh man I had no idea about the link between PDX and Kult! and yeah Kult really does go to dark places- it generally rides the line between edge for edge sake and handling it with seriousness. definitely not for all players
oh also regarding conan the barbarian- there's a lot of licensed stuff that spins out of the original stories and I think Cabinet also owns other rights to the author (Rober E. Howard)'s works. of relevance to video gaming are the two conan MMOs that are middlingly successful. And he kind of is one of like three major influences on modern fantasy fiction (on par with tolkien) so there's always some juice to squeeze from the IP, so to speak
The video was really good, I watched the whole thing! I also really like Victoria 3, it's my 2nd most played game behind CK3. The interconnectedness of the economy with the pops and the decently simulated market is just miles ahead of any similar games.
... a "fanmade" kickstarter for drakar och demonar? I guess technically true since the guys are "fans", but the studio running that kickstarter and creating that translation is somewhere in the top 10 of largest Tabletop RPG publishers in the world, and definitely in the top 3 in Europe. You definitely got the big lines right, and its great to have an overview like this. But some of the details definitely are lacking context or interpreted slightly incorrectly.
My first paradox game I have really sank my teeth into was HOI 4 and it has a special place and will perpetually be number 1 forever. But giving Stellaris and EU 4 a shake EU 4 so far is really excellent and is ‘clicking’ with me through trial and error. On my 8th or 9th hard restart as Castile. And stellaris is a can of worms that I don’t think will ever make sense to my brain.
Feels bad that Star Trek Infinite, arguably the Paradox game I've been most hyped about got less content the Imperator Rome, was more quickly forgotten then March of Eagles and is arguable more criticised then Gettysburg for deviation from the source material.
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HeyCara, good video as always, but why you said nothing about cancelled Cold War game from Paradox named "East vs West: A Hearts of Iron Game"? There was no any Cold War game released or even announced from Paradox in almost a decade since then (EvW was suspended in March 2014).
I’ve been watching paradox RUclips so long I still remember Arumba started as Arumba07, Alex started as a total war player and ISP…well he has a better mic.
He is still Arumba07 on twitch, and it feels like he mostly moved there, focusing on it and uploading VODs on youtube
I was there too, 3000 years ago
remember Adrian
i remember when isp played eu4.
You mean ISP becoming a mainstream normie more and more. I still remember him making actual surreal funny content, what was creative, now he just churns out the similar crap over and over again and the only reason I don't condemn him completely is because, unlike many PDX youtubers, he still have agency and can say no, or criticise their shitty new products freely. However, Mountain General basically took over the spot he held.
If only RUclips allowed videos to be patched, then we could get "the entire history of Paradox Interactive, i guess v1.1" once March of the Eagles 2 drops
Or a dlc
Yes, fourtyleven Dlc follow-up videos.@@nivbarshem2674
Great video Cara, love it!
wow thanks! :3
Whoa alex
I often say to my friends, "Paradox games don't have a learning curve. It's a learning wall. Once you get over the wall, there is the fun. " That's less true with newer releases, but it's still not easy to just pick it up 😂
y'all i'm finally back with the most ambitious video i've ever made- THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF PARADOX INTERACTIVE. (i rly underestimated how much work this video would take 😭)
let me know how i did y'all! i rly hope you like this video with how much work and brain cells went into it 💓
I don't think CK3 and CK2 have different learning curves.
My journey with Paradox Interactive had started in 2006 when my father bought a bundle of games that included the first Hearts of Iron (just titled "World War 2" on the game box), Europa Universalis 1 and Crusader Kings 1, I was 6yo at the time.
One day I was watching him play HoI1 and asked if I could play too, but he told me that "the game would be too hard for me", it was super challenging for him too (I actually installed it many years later too and the game is just stupidly convoluted in how it does things)
Instead, he gave me the copy of Europa Universalis, and I spent that entire summer just playing it.
A year later in 2007 EU3 came out, and I had basically been hooked ever since.
It really hurts me to see how far Paradox had fallen in recent years.
Did they really fall though?
@@fitzhadha Post ~2018 for certain. Stellaris has been gutted by Wiz, CK2 ended its development with CK3 being massively behind in terms of new content, EU4 became highly derivative with no new ideas, Imperator Rome was a massive flop same with Vic3.
HoI was probably the only franchise without any major issues as far as I'm aware.
Although, with what they had done recently I think they're trying to go back to their roots, even the most ignorant corporats had to notice the drop in quality over the years.
Super big thank you for making this. I've been wanting something like this to just be up. So an even bigger thanks for making it so well structured and with a fair take and up front takes.
Got just two reflection points here:
- PDX community feels a bit like the FromSoft community, both communities passionate about steep entry games that are there to actually also help bring ppl into them
- Before the youtube video Let's Play boom, there actually was a tradition of AARs on the forums (After Action Reports) which you can probably still find some, and this was Let's Play diaries in written blog form.
One interesting Paradox history thing that wasn't in the video was all the modder-made games tweaking their mainline games that Paradox published. Some were really solid products that really improved on the original game (Darkest Hour) and some were unmitigated disasters (Magna Mundi).
We gotta get more love for Imperator: Rome. It deserves the world that was denied it.
Their gradual shift to a DLC bank machine killed it for me. As far as my good feelings for Paradox, CK2 was the peak. And even then the shift to a DLC bank machine was apparent.
Regarding the Drakar & Demoner kickstarter, it was not really a fan made one, but one made by a, by tabletop RPG standards, pretty large company, and there's some continuity with the old Äventyrsspel-staff and the staff of Fria LIgan/Free League (who made the new Drakar & Demoner/Dragonbane).
Entering the 90's Äventyrsspel was aiming for a more international audience with games such as Mutant Chronicles, Kult and Chronopia, which is as far as I know why they changed their name. No longer were they content with serving primarily the Swedish market, with a few things getting localized in other Nordic countries. They released trading card games and miniatures wargames as well as tabletop RPGs.
Kult was incidentally a game that caused the Swedish counterpart to the satanic panic. It was not as widespread, but before that tabletop RPGs were primarily sold in toy stores, but thanks to the controversy of that game that stopped being the case (that game should in all honesty never been sold in toy stores, it is a game that earns its age rating).
Target Games did end up releasing more games than those mentioned. Most of which were, to be honest, pretty bad. It's because of this that you can actually see the Paradox logo on some releases of Dragonfire: The Well of Souls, a lackluster CRPG based on Drakar & Demoner.
Also Svea Rike was directly based on a board game with the same name. So making digital adaptations/interpretations of board games was something that the people at Paradox had some experience with once they started working on Europa Universalis. They would also later go on to make a very poorly received adaptation of the board game Diplomacy.
Listening to Cara reminiscing about CK2 sounding like she could burst into tears just thinking about her game
Crusader Kings II was my first Paradox game and I still play it to this day (just broke the 1000 hours playtime).
It seems fitting that Paradox has gotten table top role play games by White Wolf Publishing (Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, ect) considered what they originally sold
Really fantastic video Cara! Thank you for making it :)
Great video! Only thing I'd add would be the impact that Susana Meza Graham had at Paradox in the early days (up to 2018), finishing up as COO, and is a wonderful lady who I'm delighted to know.
Ive known of your channel for years, but ive not taken the time to stop by and give a proper watch. Im glad i took the time to watch because you can be extremely proud of this video and yourself. This has got to be your magnum opus right? Ill stick around and i hope to see even more great videos from you soon :)
A minor point you missed is the "why" on the later failures. The older ones were good, but the latter ones... In many cases this is because Paradox is publicly traded and obscures them for that reason, but in the case of CS2 being publicly traded that's actually the problem too - they pushed it early to compensate for an otherwise bad quarter. That allows for the short-term growth that being publicly traded requires, but it has greatly undermined the game in the long term, which is inconsistent with Paradox's traditional appeal.
I didn't really think Victoria 3's release was that bad, especially in comparison with how positive you were about the CK3 release (which was better, sure, but definitely not without complaint). I don't think Paradox has had a universally loved release since CK2.
Millennia can ABSOLUTELY challenge CIv 6. The aesthetic might be bad but the gameplay is incredibly solid. Fireaxis hasn't done anything on this level of quality since Civ 4, which is barely less then twenty years ago. And no other big 4x game has cropped up in that time either. Poor art design can make a big difference but for 4x it's a much lower priority, and once you start playing that doesn't interfere with your enjoyment at all.
Your love for these games is as evident as the video was entertaining.
Excellent to see long form documentaries still being produced on this platform! Excellent work!
I play Paradox games since EU1, so this video made me a bit emotional. I love to stare at maps, and I love to interact with them. Paradox gave my cartographically nerdy personality so much joy, that I will always love them. Not as a company, but as a phenomenon, that sparked so much bright in my otherwise dark life. And I consider recent rise of a genuinely fun and supporting community, as a mark of new awesome era. Love ya all gals'n'guys, let's keep staring on maps together forever.
I really appreciate the research and hard work that went into this video, Cara. Very informative about the company who produces all these fantastic games which eat up tons of our time and brings us nerds together! Cheers!
Also tangential fun fact. Helldivers 2 (which is having a moment atm) is made by the same studio that made Magica. Arrowhead, who I think are Swedes.
Now that's a cool video! And you're a cool person for making it, Cara. Keep on painting those maps! I'll be going back to restoring the glory of Rome in CK3.
I was missing your content so this is a real treat!
God, I loved EU1.
EU ROME MENTIONED
So, it sounds like your conclusion is that the real Paradox Interactive is the friends we made along the way
lol but for real, i literally know most of my friends through paradox games too
The issue with victoria 3 isn't because the warfare system is now "bad" because its less micromanagey because it still is. It's bad because it does not fullfill its own stated goal of shifting the focus from commanding armies to capability and military preparation. One of the major considerations was so that the player can't cheese the AI, but that was and still is easier to do than otherwise. That and the diplomacy system.
Outside of those two realms, the foundation that it is built on - the socioeconomic simulation - is unlike anything I've ever seen and Vic2 does not even hold a candle to. I have strong hopes for the game ☺️
Wow this was super in depth and really entertaining! I never realized this developer I really enjoy had such an interesting history
This was even more interesting and expansive than I expected it to be! Well done! The hard work and effort really shows.
Hey Hey Cara,
Two important things that maybe you didnt know about or missed. The first is that while RUclips content creators are great ( EUIII). So many what we called AARs back then. Hours of stories and tips wrapped into the second thing you didnt hit on. The second thing is magical jank of early to mid Paradox games. CKIII is way to stable, the world is way to stable, the game play is professional and restrained. In original CK the craziest shit happened and that meant that reading someone else's AAR was mindbending. I really hope as CKIII drops the legends/disease dlc the game at least moves in that direction.
Historical games are great. Games that allow us to feel what history might have felt like a bit differently each time was magic.
One of the best videos about Paradox and their games that ive seen! Good job and thank you for content!
thank you for trying the game, and being your wonderful self! It's cool that you shared your experience!
Bought Europa Universalis in 2000 after a review in "The Wargamer" of all websites. Never looked back. It's been a ride!
Äventyrsspel did not develop there own rule set for Drakar och Demoner as they use Basic role-playing from Chaosium that is best know for Call of Cthulhu rpg. They switch to a new in house developed system with the fourth version that is called Drakar och Demoner Expert.
This is an awesome video. Great job!
How did you know I was looking for a new long form essay video to watch!?
This was really interesting, thanks for the history lesson!
Aww nostalgic! I remember all the mini games in Svea Rike from way back. Europa universalis great northern war was really cool as well. Chariots of war was really fun :).
Wow, I'd seen Drakar och Demoner here in Sweden but I didn't know the history of it.
Early CK2 really was the golden age, especially before Rajas Of India - every single DLC before that had a great release. I think the CK3 DLC packaging model is a lot better though.
Also Hearts Of Iron had a very difficult release history - HoI1 had to compete with Axis&Allies, HoI2: Doomsday had a game-breaking issue with ghost fleets for many months (while facing intense competition from Making History), HoI3 had loads of stability issues, HoI4 was delayed by over a year after the initial release date.
Stellaris' turn-around is incredible given they went from no 4X games to having one of the best (while having huge competition from Galactic Civilizations) - but Shadow Empire is still the best right now with the logistics system.
It would have been interesting to cover the modder interactions more too - Wiz was the creator of CK2+ before being hired, DDRJake was a content creator before being hired. Magnus Mundi and East vs. West were both planned spin-offs created by modder teams that failed, although Darkest Hour succeeded and is well regarded (there is also Arsenal Of Democracy and For The Glory). And now CK3 sells the modder asset packs which they plan to expand.
In general I think they really struggle with the balance between releasing unfinished games to have players to justify further development via DLC (Victoria 3), and investing a lot in development but then struggling to release (HoI4) or ending up with still no players (Imperator 2.0). Maybe they could make more use of early access and community feedback like Baldur's Gate 3 did (although KSP2 has faced a lot of backlash trying that).
BTW for published games you missed the Stellaris spin-offs like Star Trek: Infinite and Stellaris Nexus. The latter one is really good (and also their only game to use Early Access AFAIK).
that was a bit nostalgic for me too! thanks for doing this! watched the entire thing, would watch again. nicely done!
really, really enjoyed this entire video. Massive paradox fan so it was nice to see some wee tidbits here and there but yeah. The full picture here was very much appreciated and I agree with you there. You gotta talk about both good and bad. Having a bit of an existential crisis remembering that I got into EU3 back in high school. Time is doing its thing
ah paradox games, you love them for what the game could have been and hate them for what they've become.
I can't believe you didn't mention !
No jazz boatman. True heads know.
entirely random documentary is great but mildly sad you didnt learn a language solely to play svea rike (not realising it was all in swedish was funny)
vic 2 was in the same place as imperator you still see awesome modding work done on it to this day and a big MP community, but idk if we'll see a vic 3 style entry to imperator
you've really outdone yourself with this one, great work
A surprise for sure, but a welcome one.
Hey Cara (or hey HeyCara?), there was also The Lamplighters League between Vic3 and CS2, which costed 20+mil, was very unsuccessful and is already abandoned (and their developers are not working with Paradox anymore). So not two but three of their last projects were pretty bad or at least below people's expectations.
oo yea i forgot about that game! you're totally right i should've mentioned that too
It was so mediocre I'd already forgotten about it completely 😂
Really enjoyed this video, I never really thought about it until I got sucked into ck3 last October but I've been playing paradox games off and on since Vicky 2.
I know many gamers aren't into the idea that companies have to make money to make games but you have to actually pay staff and give value back to investors. In an age of basically everything being a pure rip off and absolute slop, and as someone with a job that pays above poverty (which yeah I get it I'm 'lucky' I don't live in the Anglosphere anymore), I don't mind supporting Paradox for doing something that has kept me entertained for an embarrassing number of hours. Making my hundredth Kingdom of Cornwall feels just as good.
My favorite paradox games are CK2 and HoI4, CK2 is a funny stonry lol.
One day at school, I was looking up an old browser game I suddenly remembered and ended up in a ck2 wiki talking about how putting your wife as a spymaster is a good idea, I ignored it and forgot about it for years.
Come my time at university and since I didn't have any income to speak of, I sailed the seas, found CK2 by pure chance and decided to download it since what little info I found was interesting and I began to play it daily. I think I started just after conclave dlc.
Once I finally got a part time I officially got the game and later on even tried HoI4, wich I play a lot more of nowadays. I've played EU4, not that good at it but I was able to form Italy after 2 coalition wars and reach the age of revolution just before the Ottoman stomped me.
I've come to really like paradox and their games, CK3 was to me the best release they ever did since it came out basically complete and stable compared to what they usually do. But man Vic3 for me has been a wild ride, after months of playing and failing to understand it, I decided to try Vic2 and actually found it more fun and easier to learn.
I love to love them and hate to hate them. But also the other two things.
So, this might be a bit of an unstructured rant... but damn this hits in the nostalgia.
Being a geeky 11-year old in 1997 Svea Rike was one of my very first PC-gaming experiences. Basically we got to play whatever my dads more tech-savvy younger co-workers had pirated for him, and Svea Rike just happened to be one of those games, as it was one of very few games availible in swedish and... well, let's just say my own 10-year old daughter in 2024 speaks fluent english. I didn't when I was 10... so it was one of my favourites, as it was one of the few games I could just 'understand' without having to randomly click at stuff and figure it out from there. So I felt a pang of symphaty for you in the moment you realised that it was only in swedish as that was how most of my early gaming experience was with everything being in english. I had been learning english in school for only a year, 1 hour per week, at that point and wasn't anywhere near fluent enough to manage text-heavy games. Although I played through Baldurs Gate 2 and I think I understood *most* of it just 3 years later. Children do be picking up languages quickly.
Despite being an avid strategy gamer (mainly Age of Empires, the early Total War-games and Red Alert) as a teen I actually missed the entire early era of Paradox, EU 1 & 2, CK1 as well as HoI 1-3 and Victoria, only getting back into it with EU3 in highschool and EU: Rome while I was in university. I still have the EU: Rome Ceasar-bust that came with the early boxed versions of the game looking down at me by my PC right now. I don't know if that was just a thing in Sweden though. It wasn't advertised or anything, the store clerk just got it for me from under the counter with a shrug and said "I guess you should have this too." kinda randomly. I did manage to find it on amazon with the collectors edition box of the game, although unavailible to buy, but no mention of it anywhere else so it must be pretty obscure. To be fair EU: Rome didn't leave to much of a mark on the gaming world, but I adored it. I went into the PDX-forums and looked at my post history and my first post was a bug-report in 2007 for EU3, so it was somewhere around there I "joined the PDX community" I guess. Never left since.
Next up was CK2 obviously. I don't remember now where I learned about it, but I played from version 1.0 and everything that came after. My first game was as William the Conqueror. I very distinctly remember trying to use my navy to block the english channel, EU3 style, so they wouldn't counter-attack into Normandy and being shocked to realise that wasn't a thing as the saxons started to siege down my land. And yeah, the game was really bare-bones back in the start. People who complained CK3 lacked content at launch either weren't there, or can't remember, CK2 at launch. And being sold facepacks for each ethnicity... in conflicting art-styles no less! Yeah, it's easy to look back at the finished product of CK2 and love it, but it really was a gem in the rough at the start. Only 10 years of development made it what it was, and even with that there were a lot of questionable DLC. People keep pining for them but I don't think I've played a campaign past 5 in-game years as either a steppe-horde or a republic. Only played one longer campaign as muslim, and that was for achivment-hunting. The fast pace of DLC came at a price of quality, and the really good DLC was really released after that initial rush, things like Monks and Mystics and The Reapers Due. Although the music was on point from day 1. I still wouldn't play CK3 without the CK2 music-mod.
According to steam my last game was in September 2022. I think I was playing the Elder Kings mod, in preparation for the CK3 version release, if memory serves. Over 2000 hours over the course of a decade. I was actually even in the closed beta for Holy Fury, playing it as early as 6 months before release. Best DLC released, hands down, no bias of course, even if there actually is an mechanic that was put into the game straight from one of my suggestions and I'm in the "Special thanks to" in the credits. :D
I had about 300 hours in addition in that version of the game that PDX removed from my steam-account after the closed beta was over. Going on the ck2 subreddit was hell during those months as I had an NDA and I just kept wanting to correct people in speculation threads... Quill18 and Arumba was also probably my first subscriptions on YT too after TotalBiscuit (RIP) and I followed all their campaigns for years. Probably cemented YT as my primary source of lazy entertainment to be honest.
After CK2 I've been on every hype-train, from watching the live announcment shows to the live release-streams. Haven't missed one. Speaking of the games PDX actually *makes*, they do still to this day publish a lot of shit, although not as bad as it used to be.
Only thing I disagree with you on is IR. Yeah, version 1.0 was boring. It wasn't the game I wanted. But it was the game that was very clearly advertised. No one that had followed development gets to play shocked over being delivered exactly what Johan had been trying to sell us for months. I'm totally on his side there, he wanted to make a boardgame-like experience and a map-painter and he did. It was exactly the game they had told us it would be. It was totally bug-free and everything worked perfectly as it was supposted to. The issue was that for whatever reason the fanbase seems to have missed entirely what it was supposted to be. All that being said, yeah, it wasn't the game most people wanted, and had it stayed in that state I probably would have given it 50 hours and forgotten about it. But the guys who picked it up really made it into the game we wanted from the start and I have currently 750 hours in it. It wasn't abbandoned at the drop of a hat, it was lovingly re-made from it's original vision into the very thing many of us wanted it to become from the start, not just a map-painter but a civilisation-builder. Only then was development dropped, which is no wonder seeing the player-numbers at that point. And with Invictus it's in a fantastic state to this day. Shoutout to all the "lets bring IR back in 2024"-youtubers.
Also, one small correction... while it is true that Paradox did publish Prison Architect that was only AFTER the original studio that created the game, Introversion, sold it to them after completing it. They dumped it with a third-party dev who kept releasing DLC that only made the game worse. Honestly, it was a perfect game, and everything added to it after Paradox aquired it has made it worse. Luckily you can roll back the version to the last version that Introversion released to this day, the 2018 version of the game, and disable your DLC. If there is anything I hold against Paradox, on a pure personal level, it's how they let that game be butchered by those hacks and I'll be damned if I buy their version of PA2, they do not deserve that name. After following Chris and Mark on their dev-diary/early access videos for literal years of development that game holds a special place in my heart, and people who loves PA should be buying their new game, the Last Starship, not PA2. Out of pure spite I hope it's a shit game, and gets shit reviews and is then forgotten.
As it stands PDX games hold 7 of the top 10 spots of my most played games on steam, and that is with a library of 200 games, and neither EU3 or EU: Rome is on there even though they probably should as I bought those in boxes in ye olden pre-steam days. This video was both a trip down memory lane as well as an update on what went on in the years I missed between 2000-2007. So thanks for making this video. I can't imagine anyone else but you doing it justice.
One of the best examples of Paradox games being an incredible outlet for creativity would be the AARs for them, particularly on the Paradox Forums. They really showcased the appeal of these games and the imagination of the people playing them.
Also, without the Flagland AAR Ulm would just be another German OPM instead of the meme it is today.
Great stuff Cara, I knew there was a connection between the guy who owned the Conan IP and eu4. Such a weird piece of trivia.
i cannot favorite this enough, sending you a lifetime supply of coffee and booze
Oh hell yeah I'm pulling out the popcorn for this one 🍿
I remeber yeara ago when the og extracredits did an episode suggesting eu4, made me inmediatly buy it but it was quill18 who taught me how to play, this was during quill18 art of sweden campaing, good times
I wish Paradox brought back Sengoku...
I'm here as a Stellaris only player. This video is wild. Very well made.
Great video! Kept me interested the whole length of it
Haven’t finished the video but Tyranny better be mentioned
Edit:Tyranny mentioned lets gooooo
It's really sad that game this good was mostly overlooked by majority of people.
GET IT BESTIE
I love the Imperator Rome map graphics. I wish they had implemented them in their newer games. The only thing I dislike about Vic3 is the way warfare works. I want my units Paradox, please give them back...
good video, but not enough Ship Simulator Extremes
This is awesome! Cool to see you trying something new
Cara I'm from the future and I can confirm, we get EUV, HOI5, Stellaris II, Imperator Rome II, Teleporters, Replicators, flying cars and most importantly, March of the Eagles II; all before GTA6, Elder Scrolls VI and Star Citizen get released.
great video, not only maded me watch it but thumbs up it and comment here too, well done
Oh man, some of those old games. Found EU2 on the shelf of an Electronics Boutique store at the mall, then heard some buzz about HoI1 and went digging around random stores for like a year before I could actually find a copy. Asking "Hey, do you have a copy of this random nerdy Swedish strategy game?" in 2003 was not always a recipe for success, let me tell you. Then I finally found a copy, and...my god, that tech tree.
When we get into corporation territory from the good old dedicated people in a garage, things go... well usually not great. I hope this also gets solved in the future.
HOI4 is not my favorite paradox game, but it's incredible how it made Paradox truly main stream for a first time. It surpassed Paradox's flagship EU4 and the game has constanly over 50k daily peak on Steam.
24:14 holy shit that's brutal
Well, his pseudonym *is* Angry Joe. Also, this is a reference to what a RockPaperShotgun journalist said to Peter Molyneux. And I don't know about Joe, but I am *still* annoyed at the way how PI abandoned Sword of the Stars 2. Kerberos (= the devs) are partially to blame too, but supposedly they had two of a small team getting into a road crash...
I remember playing Svea Rike on my local library's computer in the 90's.
What a great documentary you have made!
Sengoku was my first Paradox game...
No mention of the Majesty games? Those were my fave as a young gamer. Love me some Paradox games!
I feel like some old school fans probably would've appreciated more focus on the late 00s but besides that good video
Great vid, but just glad you're back^_^
The only Paradox games I've played are the Knights of Pen & Paper games. I enjoyed the humor and how it lampoon's the ttrpg industry.
15:50 is that friendlyjordies randomly starring in stock footage?
oh man I had no idea about the link between PDX and Kult! and yeah Kult really does go to dark places- it generally rides the line between edge for edge sake and handling it with seriousness. definitely not for all players
oh also regarding conan the barbarian- there's a lot of licensed stuff that spins out of the original stories and I think Cabinet also owns other rights to the author (Rober E. Howard)'s works. of relevance to video gaming are the two conan MMOs that are middlingly successful. And he kind of is one of like three major influences on modern fantasy fiction (on par with tolkien) so there's always some juice to squeeze from the IP, so to speak
oh, that news at the end isn't good...
It was just now that I realized EU4 wasn't my first Paradox game. It was Airfix Dogfighter 😂😂
I love Paradox games! I could even pay for one of em one day.
My first Paradox experience was Victoria 2.
36:08 i mean Kaiserreich is one of the most well known alternate history universes, and by extention fuhrerrich
Very much enjoyed.
Commenting to help the algorithm.
Started with Hoi3, man I miss these days, when the hardest struggle in life was raging at players for doing something you dont like
You should try to find a translated version of svea rike and play it. It was my favorite game as a kid!
Great job, Cara! Did you write a whole script for this?
The video was really good, I watched the whole thing! I also really like Victoria 3, it's my 2nd most played game behind CK3. The interconnectedness of the economy with the pops and the decently simulated market is just miles ahead of any similar games.
my first paradox games were Academia: School Simulator and City Skylines, after which I picked up HOI4
... a "fanmade" kickstarter for drakar och demonar? I guess technically true since the guys are "fans", but the studio running that kickstarter and creating that translation is somewhere in the top 10 of largest Tabletop RPG publishers in the world, and definitely in the top 3 in Europe. You definitely got the big lines right, and its great to have an overview like this. But some of the details definitely are lacking context or interpreted slightly incorrectly.
oh whoops, thanks for the correction on that
Every good Firma have a D&D History.
27:56 yes I do Im still trying to play it first
Look Cara, banger video but when are we getting more Total War?
My first paradox game I have really sank my teeth into was HOI 4 and it has a special place and will perpetually be number 1 forever. But giving Stellaris and EU 4 a shake EU 4 so far is really excellent and is ‘clicking’ with me through trial and error. On my 8th or 9th hard restart as Castile. And stellaris is a can of worms that I don’t think will ever make sense to my brain.
Great video
Feels bad that Star Trek Infinite, arguably the Paradox game I've been most hyped about got less content the Imperator Rome, was more quickly forgotten then March of Eagles and is arguable more criticised then Gettysburg for deviation from the source material.
Do not cite the deep magic to me Witch. I was there when it was written.
please do a Solium Infernum video