I have 2x Givenergy 9.5Kwh batteries and 7.7Kw worth of Solar panels. I used to be constantly fretting about keeping the batteries topped up by solar but now that the system has been up and running a couple of years, I'm far more relaxed and just let it do its thing. This summer is the first time I got the export tariff activated and have been earning around £90 per month but also because of this I am happy to charge between 11.30 and 05.30 in the winter for 7p per Kwh. Even if the following day is sunny, having a full battery just means all of the extra solar gets exported at 15p per kWh.
A great video which opens the door on so many new possibilities. Having two inverters with segregated trains so you can import /export twice current rates , especially in saving sessions or helping the grid at peak times, are now potentially possible. Glad you got a great deal on the batteries as well, does seem pylontech batteries are not dropping in price despite being available in the far east for less than half the UK prices asked. I fully agree that more capacity gives more options moving forward on our green journey's, and would like similar.
Interesting video, thank you. I added a fourth 5.2kWh battery last year, at the same time as adding the Eddi, which has worked perfectly. The inverter maxes at 2.6kWh in or out. So it also gives the opportunity to bleed some off gently into the Honda E as required, without buying peak. As an aside Go is now *5* hours off peak, from 00:30 to 05:30. On top of that the outgoing fixed lite export is now all but the same rate at 8p, therefore zero sweat just charging the car overnight anyway, and exporting a bit more the next day, i.e. cost neutral.
I agree 100% with your reasons. Plus I’m a shorts and crocs chap. 😊. I already run two Victron 48 5000 to max my discharging and charging on Octopus Flux with 2 X Seplos 280, soon to 3 x 280. Looking forward to playing with IOG in the winter and completely running the house without thinking too much. If anybody needed more charging power on cheap rates take a look at these, they could be controlled via Alexa or Ha and scalable. Search for item below. “IP67 waterproof 48V 30A charger 54.6V 25A 58.4V 35A 58.8v 50.4V Smart Charger for lithium ion battery lifepo4 LTO li ion polymer”
You make a really good point about maximum charge available through the inverter, people often overlook this. We have 2 x Tesla Powerwall which is 27kWh of battery storage. We can charge them at 10kW so just under 3 hours from 0 - 100%. Single phase is our bottleneck as our MIC (Maximum Import Capacity) as defined by our DNO is 18.4kW. In reality we top out at 80% of that around 14kW max import to give a safety margin. Tends to mean we can't fully charge the car and charge the batteries. 3-phase would solve it, but that's a whole lot of expense and brings other issues with it.
Adding extra inverter power seems impossible for some as their DNO restricts them so capacity is all that can be increased . I could install a victron 10000 which would be easier than adding a 2nd 5000 unit but I'm interested in how we get on in practise before adding more power I'm curious about adding additional chargers to the system as some are reporting is possible
Congratulations Nigel! It gets addictive this stuff doesn't it? Prediction: within 6 months you'll have uprated your Victron... Mine has been a similar journey. Do the upgrade - you wont regret it!
The thoughts about this being a hobby are spot on. I am not going to worry too much about ROI, obviously saving money is nice, but the avoidance of peak rate energy is the game. I currently only have a single us3000c, so I definitely have battery envy!
I have been granted ministerial approval, by she who must be obeyed, to purchase four additional Pylontech batteries for our off-grid system. I don't think I need them (we've been off-grid for all-but a year now and the battery SOC has never gone below 50%) but she likes her heating and this speaks exactly to your point - extra capacity will mean not having to think about managing energy use. At the moment the US5000B is selling for just AUD$120 more than the US3000C (about 60 quid of your money at current exchange rates) which is a bargain in any man's language, so that's probably the way I'll go. Cheers Russ
Thanks I agree I have 26kw and it gives me peace of mind I am also obsessed with cheap rate power. Problem with smart meter means octopus stopped my intelligent tariff hopefully they can get it working again. So no cheap rate charging. This means I have to go back to not exporting and optimising my solar . Enjoying your channel Andrew
We went with 2 15Kw DIY batteries, saved a fair bit and lugging battery cells around rather than full battery packs is far easier. The build took an hour a pack though.
Interesting stuff Nigel, thanks. Small correction, standard octopus go is currently 8.5p for 5 hours from 00.30, they gave us the extra hour fairly recently.
I have 2 teslas powerwalls @ 27kw and they both charge and discharge at 5kw each so double up to 10kw charge & discharge very fast and I don’t worry about using the power it’s great
I am either going for Tesla 3 plus slave or Sigen stackable, you note how fast you can charge ,presumably from mains on cheap rate , would a four hour cheap rate window suffice in your case ?
Yes as I get 10 kw h charging as it classes each battery as 5 kw each == there is a 14kwh down load cap on my octopus 🐙 intelligence tariff so that limits me but I’m still fine charging my car and hot water and Tesla batteries 🔋 it just prioritises my Tesla batteries fill full then put the spare power back to charging my car @. 7.3kwh
I think if I were to add any more Pylontech's I'd want to split two stacks across two inverters, as IMHO 3kW peak charge/discharge isn't enough once you're above about 10-12kWh of capacity.
I'm in a similar situation as you with the pylontech batteries. Got 4 x US5000 (4.9kw) and will be adding 3 x US3000 (3.5kw) to the stack over the coming weeks. We are a extremley high energy household using about 34kw per day. I have a small solar array on the garage roof at the moment but thats got a max generation of 2.2kw and not ideal on a flat (ish) roof. But using Intelligent Octopus Go should help me be able to fully charge these up and run during the peak time and then only using the grid during off-peak (or surges beyond the inverters ability).
A few things, 1) battery behaviour below 10%, try using voltage as a cut off (49V is a good sustain voltage for the victron ESS software, for a 16s lifepo4 battery) I find that this uses all of my battery, protects the battery health even if the SOC has crept up/down. It has the added benefit of resetting SOC correctly when you hit 49v once in a while. 2) Maximum charge power. One or two additional 1kw 16s lifepo4 chargers on a smart socket/relay. These activate on low SOC during the night charging session. They deactivate at a voltage/SOC that I can define. You can keep the Heatpump on 24/7 without worries. Having extra chargers also stops you from fretting about that 8kw Victron inverter. Keep up the good work!
I believe you can get 15kwh for £2000 from Fogstar Drift. The price drop in batteries is amazing. I've got a mini DIY off-grid system with 2.5kwh but definitely could do with adding a battery to give me an extra 2 days reserve. I can't justify at least £400 on another battery though (24 volt 100ah eco-worthy). I've got plenty of power on a sunny day from 2x 410 watt panels (£56 each) but heavy cloud means you don't generate enough and the battery quickly runs down. It's only a fun little project to run the fridge but it is addictive! I'm trying to work out the cheapest way to optimise the system which I think will be adding a solar charge controller to get maximum power when the sun shines.
Taking it to to the extreme, fit enough batteries to store all your summer energy to cover all your winter needs. Bottom line you can never have too many batteries.
Hi, when you fit the batteries to a standard rack, how are the bus-bars fitted? It looks as if the links are battery to battery, rather than battery to bus-bar This seems unlikely as the output of more than 2 batteries through a link would surely fry the cable.....
@@EVPuzzle That cant be true... Can you imagine them asking how many in the string? pre-purchase to spec the cable? Most they are 120 expecting 75 amps with 1.25 safety margin.
@@EVPuzzle I am going to add that this is of no immediate danger, most houses after all exist with an 80 Amp connection, perhaps to 120. But your 5xpylontec is capable of 5x75A, before troubling the BMS, maybe more for a transient spike.
My point exactly, take a look at "LiFePO4 Server Rack Battery Buyer's Guide! For Off-grid Solar Systems". looking at the picture you will see enormous cable daisy-chaining the DeWalt rack to the right. All the Life-power rack to the left have no interconnection.
You mentioned that you changed the battery strings (banks) that you had configured and connected to the lynx. Have you considered the cable rating, current draw/charge and the fuses you had in the lynx (and their max Isc)?
@@EVPuzzle I do hope the installer does understand all this as I've seen far too many people dive into battery storage without understanding the kit and technical requirements. Pylontech/Victron etc.. isnt as plug and play like the Tesla powerwalls, myenergy, libby etc.. and does need a bit of technical knowledge to put it all together as it is a bit more DIY.
With the new 5kwh being only 3 batteries in that array do you have a bigger limitation on discharge rate as I was told the max discharge was about 6.5 kwh to inverter unless you had 5 batteries then discharged could match 11kwh constant discharge to inverter
… cracking news on those extra Pylontech’s, I reckon you’ve saved £1 - 2k on retail price, the US2000c’s are around £750 - so you’ve got double the capacity for the same price 👍👍
I will be very interested in how much of those you can charge overnight. I have 3x Multiplus 5000s and 18 x Pylontech 3000c batteries. I find if I discharge down below about 15% I can’t recharge to 100% in the 6hr cheap rate slot. Also don’t you need to upgrade the cables if you go beyond 3 3000s in a stack? Perhaps I have got the wrong though.
Cables being appropriate are an important part of an install which one reason I choose a professional installer who knows these things . Even the smaller components like washer placement and material can be important
Have the Fogstar 15.5 Kwh batter cost £2500 great value battery. Have few short overviews on my chanell. you can add serveral together. Did have Plyontech previously
Are you still being charged for the standard charge for having a meter even thou you are exporting electricity back to the grid , roughly every household gets charged around over a hundred pounds each year be they using electric or not .
@@EVPuzzle if they at least took the standing charges of the pension house holds they would show some thought for people, when you look at EDF in 2023 went from 730 million profit to 2 Billion profit , they are just brokers they actually don’t own the meters themselves, if you switch suppliers all they do is transfer the serial number on the back of the meter to the next supplier, so none of them actually owns the meters, so as said they really are just brokers, taking the standing charge off the pensioners house hold would be the right thing to do = sorry they are probably thinking of doing that ha ha .
Here the Pylontech battery game is over. Most customer sell their used ones and go ahead with LFP batteries, usually 14 kWh based on 16x EVE LF280K or MB31 cells. Why did you invest any further into Pylon Tech cause they had caused here a lot of issues.
I have 2x Givenergy 9.5Kwh batteries and 7.7Kw worth of Solar panels. I used to be constantly fretting about keeping the batteries topped up by solar but now that the system has been up and running a couple of years, I'm far more relaxed and just let it do its thing.
This summer is the first time I got the export tariff activated and have been earning around £90 per month but also because of this I am happy to charge between 11.30 and 05.30 in the winter for 7p per Kwh. Even if the following day is sunny, having a full battery just means all of the extra solar gets exported at 15p per kWh.
A great video which opens the door on so many new possibilities. Having two inverters with segregated trains so you can import /export twice current rates , especially in saving sessions or helping the grid at peak times, are now potentially possible. Glad you got a great deal on the batteries as well, does seem pylontech batteries are not dropping in price despite being available in the far east for less than half the UK prices asked. I fully agree that more capacity gives more options moving forward on our green journey's, and would like similar.
Interesting video, thank you. I added a fourth 5.2kWh battery last year, at the same time as adding the Eddi, which has worked perfectly. The inverter maxes at 2.6kWh in or out. So it also gives the opportunity to bleed some off gently into the Honda E as required, without buying peak.
As an aside Go is now *5* hours off peak, from 00:30 to 05:30. On top of that the outgoing fixed lite export is now all but the same rate at 8p, therefore zero sweat just charging the car overnight anyway, and exporting a bit more the next day, i.e. cost neutral.
I agree 100% with your reasons. Plus I’m a shorts and crocs chap. 😊. I already run two Victron 48 5000 to max my discharging and charging on Octopus Flux with 2 X Seplos 280, soon to 3 x 280. Looking forward to playing with IOG in the winter and completely running the house without thinking too much.
If anybody needed more charging power on cheap rates take a look at these, they could be controlled via Alexa or Ha and scalable. Search for item below.
“IP67 waterproof 48V 30A charger 54.6V 25A 58.4V 35A 58.8v 50.4V
Smart Charger for lithium ion battery lifepo4 LTO li ion polymer”
You make a really good point about maximum charge available through the inverter, people often overlook this. We have 2 x Tesla Powerwall which is 27kWh of battery storage. We can charge them at 10kW so just under 3 hours from 0 - 100%. Single phase is our bottleneck as our MIC (Maximum Import Capacity) as defined by our DNO is 18.4kW. In reality we top out at 80% of that around 14kW max import to give a safety margin. Tends to mean we can't fully charge the car and charge the batteries. 3-phase would solve it, but that's a whole lot of expense and brings other issues with it.
Adding extra inverter power seems impossible for some as their DNO restricts them so capacity is all that can be increased .
I could install a victron 10000 which would be easier than adding a 2nd 5000 unit but I'm interested in how we get on in practise before adding more power
I'm curious about adding additional chargers to the system as some are reporting is possible
Congratulations Nigel! It gets addictive this stuff doesn't it? Prediction: within 6 months you'll have uprated your Victron... Mine has been a similar journey. Do the upgrade - you wont regret it!
I've done the same. I've chosen not to get solar and just utilise the offpeak charging and small solar. Ive now got 25kwh of storage 😎.
The thoughts about this being a hobby are spot on. I am not going to worry too much about ROI, obviously saving money is nice, but the avoidance of peak rate energy is the game. I currently only have a single us3000c, so I definitely have battery envy!
I have been granted ministerial approval, by she who must be obeyed, to purchase four additional Pylontech batteries for our off-grid system. I don't think I need them (we've been off-grid for all-but a year now and the battery SOC has never gone below 50%) but she likes her heating and this speaks exactly to your point - extra capacity will mean not having to think about managing energy use. At the moment the US5000B is selling for just AUD$120 more than the US3000C (about 60 quid of your money at current exchange rates) which is a bargain in any man's language, so that's probably the way I'll go.
Cheers
Russ
Approval is essential, awesome 👍
Thanks I agree I have 26kw and it gives me peace of mind I am also obsessed with cheap rate power. Problem with smart meter means octopus stopped my intelligent tariff hopefully they can get it working again. So no cheap rate charging. This means I have to go back to not exporting and optimising my solar . Enjoying your channel
Andrew
We went with 2 15Kw DIY batteries, saved a fair bit and lugging battery cells around rather than full battery packs is far easier. The build took an hour a pack though.
Interesting stuff Nigel, thanks.
Small correction, standard octopus go is currently 8.5p for 5 hours from 00.30, they gave us the extra hour fairly recently.
Ah - who knew. I missed this memo! Thanks
I have 2 teslas powerwalls @ 27kw and they both charge and discharge at 5kw each so double up to 10kw charge & discharge very fast and I don’t worry about using the power it’s great
I am either going for Tesla 3 plus slave or Sigen stackable, you note how fast you can charge ,presumably from mains on cheap rate , would a four hour cheap rate window suffice in your case ?
@pmb9172 4 hours wouldn't be enough in peak winter unless it was a really sunny winter
Yes as I get 10 kw h charging as it classes each battery as 5 kw each == there is a 14kwh down load cap on my octopus 🐙 intelligence tariff so that limits me but I’m still fine charging my car and hot water and Tesla batteries 🔋 it just prioritises my Tesla batteries fill full then put the spare power back to charging my car @. 7.3kwh
I think if I were to add any more Pylontech's I'd want to split two stacks across two inverters, as IMHO 3kW peak charge/discharge isn't enough once you're above about 10-12kWh of capacity.
Thank you. That's a really clear video.
I'm in a similar situation as you with the pylontech batteries. Got 4 x US5000 (4.9kw) and will be adding 3 x US3000 (3.5kw) to the stack over the coming weeks. We are a extremley high energy household using about 34kw per day. I have a small solar array on the garage roof at the moment but thats got a max generation of 2.2kw and not ideal on a flat (ish) roof. But using Intelligent Octopus Go should help me be able to fully charge these up and run during the peak time and then only using the grid during off-peak (or surges beyond the inverters ability).
No such thing as to much storage. I'd love to get my hands on sodium ion batteries ❤
A few things,
1) battery behaviour below 10%, try using voltage as a cut off (49V is a good sustain voltage for the victron ESS software, for a 16s lifepo4 battery) I find that this uses all of my battery, protects the battery health even if the SOC has crept up/down. It has the added benefit of resetting SOC correctly when you hit 49v once in a while.
2) Maximum charge power.
One or two additional 1kw 16s lifepo4 chargers on a smart socket/relay. These activate on low SOC during the night charging session. They deactivate at a voltage/SOC that I can define. You can keep the Heatpump on 24/7 without worries. Having extra chargers also stops you from fretting about that 8kw Victron inverter.
Keep up the good work!
2) you've lost me . AC chargers ? Do you have a link
Alternatively.... Parallel another Multiplus ;)
@@EVPuzzle Google: 30a 16s lfp charger
@@EVPuzzle Something like the victron energy skylla 48/50 tg. Although for the price, i would parallel another Multiplus too.
I believe you can get 15kwh for £2000 from Fogstar Drift. The price drop in batteries is amazing. I've got a mini DIY off-grid system with 2.5kwh but definitely could do with adding a battery to give me an extra 2 days reserve. I can't justify at least £400 on another battery though (24 volt 100ah eco-worthy). I've got plenty of power on a sunny day from 2x 410 watt panels (£56 each) but heavy cloud means you don't generate enough and the battery quickly runs down. It's only a fun little project to run the fridge but it is addictive! I'm trying to work out the cheapest way to optimise the system which I think will be adding a solar charge controller to get maximum power when the sun shines.
Fogstar 15.5 kWh is £2500 have it about 5 months so far. Very pleased
like the cabinets were did you get them.
Came with the batteries this time so not sure , my original came from linxcom Leicester
Taking it to to the extreme, fit enough batteries to store all your summer energy to cover all your winter needs. Bottom line you can never have too many batteries.
Hi, when you fit the batteries to a standard rack, how are the bus-bars fitted? It looks as if the links are battery to battery, rather than battery to bus-bar This seems unlikely as the output of more than 2 batteries through a link would surely fry the cable.....
Pylontechs are designed to connected together with these cables not busbars
@@EVPuzzle That cant be true... Can you imagine them asking how many in the string? pre-purchase to spec the cable? Most they are 120 expecting 75 amps with 1.25 safety margin.
@@jackleman331 im sure if you check the tinternet you'll find lots and lots of images etc plus the manuals are all online .
@@EVPuzzle I am going to add that this is of no immediate danger, most houses after all exist with an 80 Amp connection, perhaps to 120. But your 5xpylontec is capable of 5x75A, before troubling the BMS, maybe more for a transient spike.
My point exactly, take a look at "LiFePO4 Server Rack Battery Buyer's Guide! For Off-grid Solar Systems". looking at the picture you will see enormous cable daisy-chaining the DeWalt rack to the right. All the Life-power rack to the left have no interconnection.
You mentioned that you changed the battery strings (banks) that you had configured and connected to the lynx. Have you considered the cable rating, current draw/charge and the fuses you had in the lynx (and their max Isc)?
That's my installers job, all good 👍
@@EVPuzzle I do hope the installer does understand all this as I've seen far too many people dive into battery storage without understanding the kit and technical requirements. Pylontech/Victron etc.. isnt as plug and play like the Tesla powerwalls, myenergy, libby etc.. and does need a bit of technical knowledge to put it all together as it is a bit more DIY.
With the new 5kwh being only 3 batteries in that array do you have a bigger limitation on discharge rate as I was told the max discharge was about 6.5 kwh to inverter unless you had 5 batteries then discharged could match 11kwh constant discharge to inverter
… cracking news on those extra Pylontech’s, I reckon you’ve saved £1 - 2k on retail price, the US2000c’s are around £750 - so you’ve got double the capacity for the same price 👍👍
That was my thinking , quality product too
I will be very interested in how much of those you can charge overnight. I have 3x Multiplus 5000s and 18 x Pylontech 3000c batteries. I find if I discharge down below about 15% I can’t recharge to 100% in the 6hr cheap rate slot. Also don’t you need to upgrade the cables if you go beyond 3 3000s in a stack? Perhaps I have got the wrong though.
Cables being appropriate are an important part of an install which one reason I choose a professional installer who knows these things . Even the smaller components like washer placement and material can be important
Have the Fogstar 15.5 Kwh batter cost £2500 great value battery. Have few short overviews on my chanell. you can add serveral together. Did have Plyontech previously
At what rate how many KW do you charge your batteries at cheap rate
3.6kw AC grid input charging
Couldn't help thinking about that field behind your house, is that next ? Speak to the land owner, to go half's on a wind turbine or a solar array?
Discussion has happened about buying a few acres but it's not easy
Planning May come into it as well
I have the pylontech us5000,s but mine are only 4.8kwh = 14.4kwh combined ??
I might be rounding up 😬😔🫣
What are your thoughts on the Fogstar 15kwh battery? It looks pretty cheap and compact
Are you still being charged for the standard charge for having a meter even thou you are exporting electricity back to the grid , roughly every household gets charged around over a hundred pounds each year be they using electric or not .
Oh yes 🫣
@@EVPuzzle if they at least took the standing charges of the pension house holds they would show some thought for people, when you look at EDF in 2023 went from 730 million profit to 2 Billion profit , they are just brokers they actually don’t own the meters themselves, if you switch suppliers all they do is transfer the serial number on the back of the meter to the next supplier, so none of them actually owns the meters, so as said they really are just brokers, taking the standing charge off the pensioners house hold would be the right thing to do = sorry they are probably thinking of doing that ha ha .
Did you need DNO permission to add those batteries, or did the DNo already have a “this is my max output” so they don’t care ?
Dno interesting in inverter power not battery capacity
@@EVPuzzlenice one
Ps. How did you get your missus to sign off on all the extra batteries and panels 😊
@@BiohaZd5 she knows we have zero energy bills so gives me free reign
@@EVPuzzleawesome
Here the Pylontech battery game is over. Most customer sell their used ones and go ahead with LFP batteries, usually 14 kWh based on 16x EVE LF280K or MB31 cells.
Why did you invest any further into Pylon Tech cause they had caused here a lot of issues.